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06-05-1991 - Special - '-' ~ 1\/ CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING JUNE 5, 1991 MINUTES Mayor Wessler called the meeting to order a 6:30 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Tanya Wessler Councilman Kirk Jones Councilperson Louise Martin Councilperson NoraJane Gillespie Councilman Michael Hays Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton Acting City Manager Fred Munoz City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Arrived Later Present Present Present Arrived Later Present Present Excused Mayor Wessler recessed the meeting at 6:32 p.m to await the arrival of Councilman Jones. Ms. Clayton arrived at 6:32 p.m., Councilman Jones arrived at 6:35 p.m., and Mayor Wessler called the meeting back to order. ROLL CALL Mayor Tanya Wessler Councilman Kirk Jones Councilperson Louise Martin Councilperson NoraJane Gillespie Councilman Michael Hays Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton Acting City Manager Fred Munoz City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Excused RESOLUTION 91-R-25 AUTHORIZING APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE DOCUMENTS FOR SALE OF PARCELS 53 AND 54 (RIGHTS OF WAY) AT ROTARY PARK TO VOLUSIA COUNTY IN CONJUNCTION WITH COUNTY. S PARK AVE. WIDENING PROJECT - Council person Gi llespie moved they adopt Resolution 91-R-25. Councilman Hays seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. Ms. Clayton asked if a determination was made if the easements are declared surplus. Councilperson Gillespie said she thought it was ment i oned at the or i g i na 1 presentat i on. Mayor Wess 1 er read the Reso 1 ut i on. RES. 91-R-25 A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF EDGEWATER, FLORIDA, AUTHORIZING THE APPROPRIATE CITY OFFICIALS TO EXECUTE A CONTRACT WITH COUNTY OF VOLUSIA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS FOR THE SALE OF PARCELS 53 AND 54 AT ROTARY PARK IN CONJUNCTION WITH VOLUSIA COUNTY'S PARK AVENUE WIDENING PROJECT; REPEALING ALL RESOLUTIONS IN CONFLICT HEREWITH AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Councilman Jones apologized for being late because he was coaching a team. INTERVIEW OF KRISTA A. STOREY. APPLICANT FOR CITY ATTORNEY Councilperson Martin stated her resume shows a lot of things this City needs. She asked if she has an outside practice. Ms. Storey replied no. Councilperson Martin asked if she expects to have one. Ms. Storey replied no. Councilperson Martin asked if she's strong in maintaining her own identity when working with others. Ms. Storey rep 1 i ed yes, she th inks so. Ms. Storey expressed her appreciation to Council for calling this special meeting. Councilperson Gillespie asked if she has problems holding her own with others, noting she has dealt at municipal levels. Ms. Storey explained her local govern- ment exper i ence was wi th the County but it's very comparab 1 e. Counc il person Gillespie explained we have a good working relationship with the County. She asked if Ms. Storey is familiar with growth management. Ms. Storey replied yes. Councilperson Gillespie stated we have a County hearing coming up later this month and we1re partially accepted by the State. She asked if she's familiar with interfacing structures we're going into with our CIP. Ms. Storey replied yes. Councilperson Gillespie asked about municipal bonding. Ms. Storey replied they coordinated with the County bond counsel and she serves as the go between of bond counsel and board of county commissions but doesn't have experience in that area and is not a bond attorney. Councilperson Gillespie explained we have a bonding attorney from Jacksonville. '-' ....." INTERVIEW OF KRISTA A. STOREY, APPLICANT FOR CITY ATTORNEY (Continued) Councilperson Gillespie asked if she's had any direct connection with our County other than at the County government level. Ms. Storey replied no, and not with Volusia County government. Council person Gillespie asked the time frame to relocate if she were chosen. Ms. Storey replied she'd like to give one month notice to her current employer because she's been with the County almost 7 years and it would take about a month to finish up some of the projects. Councilperson Gillespie asked if she's carrying a heavy work load and if she's accustomed to it. Ms. Storey replied yes, explaining her concern with arriving on time today due to a code enforcement board meeting. Councilperson Gillespie said she'll be called on to answer questions for boards, attend meetings, and give written opinions. Ms. Storey explained she's staff attorney for code enforcement board and planning and zoning commission and previously for the board of adjustments. She added represent i ng boards is one of her spec i a 1 ty areas and she enjoys working with them. Councilperson Gillespie pointed out this is not a 40 hour week. Ms. Storey stated she's not used to 40 hours. Councilman Hays stated he thinks the relationship between City Attorney and Council is special and it should be an individual and trusting relationship. He asked how she sees that role. Ms. Storey agreed it's a special relationship and there must be a level of trust of the attorney's integrity and level of expertise and Council needs to feel comfortable that the attorney is part of a team and is working with Council to accomplish their goals. She added the attorney's role is to keep Council out of trouble and provide appropriate legal advice and probably more conservative in that vein. She stated the attorney's role is to provide the worst case advice but it's up to Council to make decisions with the best advice possible. She said she feels she maintains a close working relationship with board members and they feel open to ask her questions away from an open public meeting and it gives the attorney an opportunity to be prepared and provide appropriate advice. She pointed out there has to be that level of trust and understanding. Councilman Hays asked what type student she was in law school. Ms. Storey replied she was adequate with a B-C grade point average and she went to 1 aw schoo 1 after teach i ng schoo 1 severa 1 years and it was more difficult to be back on the other side of the classroom after teaching. Councilman Hays asked what she taught. Ms. Storey replied chemistry and math at senior high school level. Councilman Hays stated there will be times she'll have to call others for legal assistance and advice. He asked if she has a good circle of people to draw from. Ms. Storey replied she has a good network of local government attorneys to draw from because she's been practicing 7 years and her county has a good relationship with surrounding cities and counties. She added she doesn't know any contacts in this immediate area but local government attorneys are usually willing to share advice. She added their office was involved in the local government sector of the Florida Bar. Councilman Hays noted she grew up in Seminole and has friends and family in Edgewater and other counties. He asked if she'd reside in Edgewater if chosen. Ms. Storey replied she didn't give it immediate thought but they drove through Edgewater a couple of times and they visited relatives in New Smyrna Beach and has an idea of the City's limits. She added as a member of the County Attorney's office she resides in the unincorporated area and it's important to reside in the area of the government where she works. Councilman Hays asked why she feels she's the best person for this job. Ms. Storey replied she thinks her significant amount of local government experience would be very valuable and she thinks she has a very good background and the experience at the County Attorney's office was very wide and they went from 3 to 7 attorneys and it's a growing area. She noted they had some problems with the Comp Plan and intervenors. She said she has a very good ability to relate to people and deal with boards and groups and good relationships with citizens and homeowners associations and enjoys and likes people. She added she doesn't like to sit in the office and produce documents and feels interaction with boards and citizens that are interested in their government is very important. Councilman Hays asked if her interest in Edgewater is a stepping stone or as a future. Ms. Storey replied she's looking for career advancement at this point and was never certain where she wanted to go with local government experience but that's the area she wants to stay in and she didn't go to law school with the thought of private practice. She explained she initially wanted State government but after interning with the State she was dissatisfied and decided that wasn't where she wanted to be. She said she and her husband were in St. 2 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 'W .."" INTERVIEW OF KRISTA A. STOREY. APPLICANT FOR CITY ATTORNEY (Continued) Lucie 7 years and relocated to take that position and likes to have roots and doesn't pick up and go. She pointed out she's happy there but is looking for career advancement and they're looking for a place to raise their family, she likes the beach and her husband likes to fish, and they decided to stay along the East coast and she's looking for more of a challenge. Councilman Jones noted she has quite a lot of experience with boards in the County. He asked how many times she's written laws easily understood by the lay person and ordinances at the County level. Ms. Storey replied she doesn't do as much ordinance drafting now as when she first started, some years 5-10, and possibly drafted 50 to 60 in 7 years. Councilman Jones asked if they experienced any major litigation with the County and gone to court to defend the County's position. Ms. Storey replied she's not a litigator and doesn't have experience with a major case, their office had outside attorneys handle litigation. She added she handled hearings and some cases in the court room but hasn I t had extensive trial experience. Councilman Jones asked if she felt Edgewater was in a situation where they needed representation, could she try. Ms. Storey replied yes, but she'd recognize her limits and abilities and feels it's a fairly specialized area. Councilman Jones asked if sheld tell them to seek outside counsel with expertise. Ms. Storey replied yes. Councilman Jones asked about real estate transactions and purchases with eminent domain. Ms. Storey replied she didn't have a lot of eminent domain experience but had some with transactions with the County purchasing or selling property and drafted sales contracts for purchase of property. Councilman Jones stated Edgewater is small but growing rapidly and services are behind and we have to catch up. He asked if she could bring in problem solving and keep them in the right direction but work towards their goals to accomplish what they need. He explained they sometimes have input from citizens and if they have someone good with them that's important because a problem solver helps them as a mediator and both sides are happy. He asked if she could handle that. Ms. Storey replied her concept of local government is the attorney is the employee of the board but also of the citizens that are paying taxes that support the functioning of the government. She added their attitude in her office is the best solution is a compromise and taking into consideration all interests and she feels citizens have just as much right to direct the City as the City Council with Council having the hard job of making decisions. She stated it1s a team concept. Councilman Jones explained in the past a lot of cities and counties have been cold to citizens and he wants that to change to help the people. Ms. Storey stated she feels very strongly that an attorney is an employee of the citizens and one of the benefits of residing in the area you represent is you deal with these same people and can get ideas of what can be problems arising. She referred to growth catch up in her county. Mayor Wessler stated in the past we've had a power struggle between the City Attorney and City Manager and asked if she's experienced that with the County. Ms. Storey replied she was hired by St. Lucie and the County Administrator was there 13 years and recently retired and the entire staff is going through an adjustment process with the new Administrator. She explained the structure and idea is the two departments work together and not at odds because they're both employed by the County Commission. She said she's familiar with power struggles. Councilman Hays asked if she feels the City Attorney1s contract should exceed the time limit of those elected officials who hire him. Ms. Storey replied probably not and she1s very cognizant of changes in elected bodies. She explained the board she's working for has been the same with the exception of one member for the 7 years she's been there. She said if the majority changes and the attitude or philosophies change then they should have the ability to choose another attorney or express confidence in the one that's there. She said the role of attorney has to be above politics and the advice should not be influenced by it. She added that may not be realistic but the role is to provide legal advice and stay away from politics. Ms. Clayton asked the name of her current County Attorney. Ms. Storey replied Dan MacIntire. Ms. Clayton stated he's doing a good job of putting together something and she's planning to speak. Ms. Storey noted she's planning to be there. Ms. Clayton stated she's had experience in County government and questions are easily translatable from county to city government but there will be some differences. She said they went to specialists when they needed help but in a small jurisdiction she will be a one man shop and asked if she'll be able to adjust. 3 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 .... .."., INTERVIEW OF KRISTA A. STOREY. APPLICANT FOR CITY ATTORNEY (Continued) Ms. Storey replied she gave that a lot of thought because although they don1t specialize in her office they basically have to but she started in the office when there were only 3 attorneys and everyone did everything and then gradually developed their areas of expertise. She stated she has limited experience in some areas but has been exposed to a lot and isn't threatened by a one man show. She said if she finds an area where she's out of her element then she'll advise Council. She pointed out her limitations are litigation and personnel. Ms. Clayton asked if she's had to step up to the mike and act like she knows what she's saying. Ms. Storey replied yes. and she sat in for the County Attorney at board meetings and has been able to speak on her feet and admit if she doesn't know an answer and to stand up for what she knows is right and advise them accordingly. Ms. Clayton asked how she deals with conflict in personal relation- ships in a matter over policies or discussion of whether the law says this or not. Ms. Storey replied her general nature is not especially reactive and she learned to 1 isten carefully first and understand the issue well and thinks there's room for compromise in most situations but to remember clients have a mind of their own. She referred to an instance with the code enforcement board that day. Ms. Clayton asked if she backs down. Ms. Storey replied no, but she feels she can express her opinion politely and diplomatically. Ms. Clayton asked how her negotiating skills are. Ms. Storey replied she feels they're pretty good and the posture of their office with the County is a consultant situation of negotiating policies from ordinance writing to settling conflicts with boards with their office being the arbitrator often between the board and staff members. Ms. Clayton asked if in relationships with outside constituents she has seen a need to deal with those that could be opposed. Ms. Storey replied yes, quite often, probably in planning and zoning commission representation because that's usually where you have arguments for rezoning and others. Ms. Clayton asked if she's had many Chapter 120 administrative hearings. Ms. Storey replied no. Ms. Storey asked what Council views as the most significant issues facing the City. Councilman Hays repl ied one of the most important issues or tasks is growth and it's necessary to change infrastructure to meet needs and they have an extensive CIP in front of them and the problems in developing it. He noted many of us have been in this town for years, it's a close town and unique because this room is usually full and citizens want to be a part of the City. He added we have active and verbal people who are sincere and want what's best for the City. He said we have to weigh all sides and he thinks some of past managers, attorneys, and councils may have lost sight of what's best for the City as a whole and feels this Council may not always agree but are trying to look at what1s best for the City to have a place to raise your family. He said a personality that will fit into the community is important because people want the City Attorney to communicate with them. He expressed appreciation for her comment that she1d work for the people also. Council person Gillespie stated Edgewater was originally Hawks Park, it was changed in 1921, we celebrated the 125th Founders Day, and have gone 100-100- 100-100% in the 10 year brackets and we're catching up and moving forward. She said this Council includes environmentalists and she's proud of the community and is happy with the warm feeling that comes from preventing conflict whenever possible and making every citizen feel welcome in any office. She added the people have a responsibility to learn who department heads are and what they do and how it affects them and it's Council's job to respond to what they feed to us. She said we have a watch dog group and environmental group and we just settled a law suit. She added we have outside engineering groups outside the consulting engineers and City Engineer and just averted a DCA administrative hearing. She referred to a complaint she filed through 1001 Friends of Florida and said now she's here to settle what she brought to them. She stated it's a good community that will stand behind you if you're right and God help you if you're wrong. Councilperson Martin stated we're growing by leaps and bounds and have a lot of irons in the fire to promote and pursue that will need a very firm, competent attorney which she believes Ms. Storey can be to help them with future endeavors. Councilman Jones explained we have State revolving low interest loans and a special assessment area in Florida Shores for sewers and reuse water that's part 4 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 ,... ...",., INTERVIEW OF KRISTA A. STOREY, APPLICANT FOR CITY ATTORNEY (Continued) of the environmental suit. He said we have a Comp Plan to look at for the future what direction and what money weill get to fulfill the Comp Plan and welre going to bonds for a new water plant. He added we want to clean up the river and have a beach where we can't swim and welre looking at 26 acres for a recreational complex to be developed. He said we need to look at a light industrial develop- ment complex and we have a board thatls looking at ways to bring in industry. Mayor Wessler stated CIP is most important and we have to revise the City Charter and are waiting for an ordinance, also wrapping garbage in newspapers before putting it out is pending to be updated along with other ordinances. She stated if Ms. Storey is chosen shelll be coming on board with a new City Manager. She added Edgewater is unique with a lot of vocal people and the City Manager and City Attorney should come to the City with an attitude of showing better ways of doing things. She said she has an obligation to the City Council who has an obligation to City employees and she wouldn't expect a City Attorney to play on Council because she has an obligation to City Council also. She said there will be times when she makes a decision that's against her thinking shelll be hostile but shelll get over it. She said it will not be easy and shelll be dumped right in if chosen. Councilman Hays asked if she has experience negotiating with City unions because Council has tabled that. Ms. Storey replied no, the personnel area is not her strong area but she doesnlt have an aversion to it. Mayor Wessler asked if she felt she might like to tackle it. Ms. Storey replied she has an interest in it and could grow in it. She asked if the City Attorney would work for the City Counc il the same as the Po 1 ice Department. Mayor Wess 1 er rep 1 i ed yes. Ms. Storey noted she saw the utilities system. Mayor Wessler explained we have public works with streets, garbage, water, sewer, stormwater utilities. Ms. Storey asked if the City provides garbage service. Mayor Wessler replied yes and we have outside recyclers and a Fire Department whose members will probably try to get a union, Police, Utilities, Parks and Recreation, Planning & Zoning, one-man Engineering Department, Finance, and City Clerk. Council person Gillespie noted City Engineer Gates Castle was in Delray Beach and came here last June. Ms. Storey said she doesnlt know him. Mayor Wessler recessed the meeting at 7:25 p.m. and called the meeting back to order at 7:31 p.m. SELECTING CITY ATTORNEY Mayor Wessler suggested they list their choices. Councilman Jones stated they all did a good job and itls a tough decision. He said Ms. Storey seemed to be very experienced in the areas of County government which is basically the same and he liked Paul Chipok who started out in New Smyrna Beach and is familiar with areas of City government and thinks he could be more negotiable in his salary range as he requested $50,000 and with his experience that would be his choice. Councilperson Martin stated her first choice is George Sofranko as it seems he would be an asset to the City. Councilperson Gillespie said she got the same points for Ms. Storey and Mr. Sofranko. She noted they both have different assets, one because Mr. Sofranko knows no one and has no ties but has a work ethic she admires and is very bright and hard working and Ms. Storey because shels quick and bright and knew what welre looking for in responses and has a wonderful background in County government that covers everything we need, so itls a toss up. Councilman Hays stated everyone was unique and well qualified and he almost had a tie, but not quite. He said he was very impressed with Ms. Storey and liked George Sofranko and probably the tie breaker is salary and Mr. Sofranko is more negotiable on his salary and weill get more for our money, so helll say Mr. Sofranko. Mayor Wessler stated she was very impressed with Mrs. Storey but Mr. Chipok impressed her more and he has local government experience and knows the area. She said Mr. Sofranko was very good but when he wanted an outside practice also she couldn't vote for him. Councilperson Gillespie stated shelll go with Mr. Sofranko. 5 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 "-" ...., SELECTING CITY ATTORNEY (Continued) Councilman Hays moved they contact George Sofranko, Jr. in Canfield, Ohio, and ask him if he's still interested and if so, begin with background check and start proceeding in that direction. Council person Gillespie seconded the motion. Councilman Jones asked if since he wants to practice outside, thatls something they have to look at and asked if that's what they want. Councilperson Martin said she thinks if they offer a little more money he will not need outside practice. Councilperson Gillespie said she thinks that when he came in so low at $30,000 that was why he felt he needed an outside practice. Mayor Wessler clarified it's mid-$30's. Councilperson Gillespie said that's so much below and she thought $50,000. Councilman Hays stated he's not sure the man will have time to establish an outside practice and they have a probationary period and there's a lot to be said to what happens in that first 6 months. Mayor Wessler said if they raise the salary if he just does City business, held said he'd work 30-40 hours and they should move that up with the salary. Councilman Hays stated the motion is to contact the man and make sure he's still interested, he had a long drive back to Ohio, and if so, proceed with the background check and at that point in time if all checks out they need to sit down and negotiate with the man. Councilperson Martin seconded the motion. Councilman Jones stated his notes on Mr. Sofranko were that he had a little experience with a village and he thinks for the money they'll spend he would like someone experienced in Florida law and has been established in a County or City type atmosphere or they will spend a lot of time for this man to do research and he's walking into a brand new ball game. Councilperson Martin stated he (Mr. Sofranko) was in the legal field and licensed in Florida since 1984. Councilman Jones said he just took the Florida Bar and that doesn't mean he did anything. Councilman Hays stated that was impressive to take the Ohio and Florida Bar and not everyone passes that takes it. Mayor Wessler stated someone said the reason for choosing Mr. Sofranko and the tie breaker was that his salary was in the low to mid $30's and now they're looking at moving it to $50,000. Councilperson Gillespie stated she would move it up. Mayor Wessler stated one said the deciding factor was the salary and if he was asking for $50, would he still want to deal with the same man for more money. Councilperson Gillespie replied yes. Councilman Hays said he still wants to deal with the same man. Councilperson Martin stated if he gives up private practice, what will he expect from us is what they have to ask him. Councilman Hays said they have to do the background check if still interested and then enter into negotiations and then if they find it all checks out, then proceed from there. He added he doesn't feel comfortable with hiring the man now because they have to do other things. Mayor Wessler stated a couple of City Attorneys have told her that City Attorneys come in with a contract and Council should look at it and strike what they don't want and perhaps they could ask him to prepare that. Councilperson Gillespie agreed that's a good point and noted previous discussions show they want an outside attorney look over the final draft of the contract with the new City Attorney to avoid what they were in before. Councilman Hays agreed, and asked if Ms. Clayton could do it. Ms. Clayton replied there will be contract negotiations with term, salary, and hours and the job description involves exclusive representation of the City. She said he indicated his interest in working at a price he thought would get their attention but made known it was 30-40 hours and if they wanted it full time he'd want consideration of salary. She noted additional keys on negotiations are probationary periods and she'd suggest 6 months and have reference to termination and most attorneys and managers wi 11 want some severance pro v i s ion in exchange for the 1 ack of continuity of term as they have in the ordinance for City Manager for terminating without cause and they need to look at that as part of the negotiations. Motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Wessler and Councilman Jones voted NO. Mayor Wessler suggested an alternate in case he doesn't want it. Councilperson Gillespie added also because of the background check. Councilman Hays, Councilperson Martin, and Councilperson Gillespie selected Krista Storey. Councilman Jones and Mayor Wessler selected Paul Chipok. Councilman Hays moved that the second candidate be Krista A. Storey, Fort Pierce. Councilperson Martin seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Wessler and Councilman Jones voted NO. 6 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 'lrw' ...", Mayor Wessler asked Ms. Clayton to contact them about the zoning. Ms. Clayton said that was represented by an attorney. Councilperson Gillespie stated she doesn't know if the former landowners did. Mayor Wessler suggested Mrs. Wadsworth could get the information. Ms. Clayton said Council person Gillespie asked whether the CCNA applied to engagement of the CPA firm to do a limited engagement with the CIP program and she thought it was simple but the conclusion is an accountant under a CPA is prohibited from engaging in competitive bidding for an engagement and the only time a form of CCNA is required is pursuant to Florida Statutes 1145 when a City or County is required to have an annual audit but the Auditor General is not 'going to audit them and CCNA applies only to architects, engineers, and landscape architects and doesn't include auditors. She added she talked with Mr. Munoz about the purchasing ordinance and there's a limit over which they require bid and she thinks Florida Statutes would supersede the purchasing requirements and she thinks it will be worthwhile to open negotiations with the firm of CPA's they want to engage to see how they would define the scope of the engagement. She said Mr. Munoz brought up an issue about auditing their own audit and two firms overlap and the audits in that time frame. She pointed out they will not be auditing an audit and they will not have an opinion on their previous audit because it was done pursuant to generally accepting governmental accounting principles that require certain test procedures of all departments and this will be a much more detailed engagement and the nature of the opinion they'll render is something that will be subject to definition in the scope. She added they don't have to go through CCNA but need help of this firm to define the scope to determine if there are any professional ethics that circumscribe their undertaking the engagement. Mayor Wessler stated this is a special meeting and she doesn't think they should have brought this up here but since they did, they spoke about Brent Millikan and Brent Millikan had an axe to bear with Edgewater and may not now but would if he looks at the books and she urged Council to reconsider who they would want to do it. She said it was an issue with the City Attorney and some dealings in Edgewater and it could get the City in trouble if she goes farther. She added the axe to bear was with the past City employee and she urged they look at someone else because of the time frame to keep any clouded vision and to go to someone independent that has not dealt with us. Councilman Hays stated any past City employee is not what they need to look at, they're looking at an issue and not individuals, and they're professional and they should be able to deal with that and the past dealings or vendettas are past. He said there's an issue that a large number of voters and taxpayers want resolved. Mayor Wessler agreed with that but to keep a clouded vision away from Council they might want to go to someone other than someone who has done an audit on the City and she's received telephone calls on this. She pointed out she doesn't know Brent Millikan or Alex Kish and has no problems with them but urged Council to look at a totally independent firm. Councilperson Martin asked the Mayor what she has against Brent Millikan and why she pinpointed them. Mayor Wessler replied she is not against Brent Millikan and she's saying she doesn't know either one and the problem is there are some feelings in the community that he had an axe to bear because of hostility with Jose' Alvarez. Councilperson Martin stated Jose' Alvarez left, so what does he have to do with it. Mayor Wessler said to keep from having a wagging finger, maybe part of the City will say it's okay but others say they should go with someone who has not dealt with the City. Councilman Jones said they shouldn't use anyone who ever dealt with our books and there are other firms and they s hou 1 d do it right and br i ng someone who's never been here to do it. Mayor Wessler again said she has nothing against Brent Millikan. Council person Gillespie stated she has no problem with that but she made the motion because she is familiar with the firm and they had a background and they didn't part friends but none of their work was ever questioned and the problem has long since disappeared and they were the firm that originally handled CIP when it started and they were familiar and they could keep cost at a minimum as this would only cover a refresher and continuing on. She said their work was never found unsatisfactory and they are local and know the situation. Councilman Jones asked if it has to go out for bids. Councilperson Gillespie replied no. Mayor Wessler stated she's saying the work was always satisfactory but obviously it was not or they would still be here and that's not the issue. She said everyone wagged their finger at Gerry Hartman and said this was a done deal and she's getting the same thing and doesn't know Brent Millikan or Alex Kish but it would look 7 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 '- ....,. better for Council to use someone independent and not used before for this type of audit. Councilperson Martin asked the point since they were an honorable organization and why slight them out. Mayor Wessler asked to check another firm to see if they could do it at the same price. Councilperson Martin asked what she's afraid of. Mayor Wessler replied she's not afraid of anything and resents her implying she is and this is clouded vision. Councilperson Martin stated she's been here 15 years and never heard anything. Mayor Wessler noted they said it about Gerry Hartman and they'll say it aga in, and she has tunne 1 vis ion. Counc il person Gillespie stated she received positive calls about going forward with the audit and asked if there has been public contact to the City that they don't wish the firm of Millikan-Kish. Mayor Wessler stated people have called her and it's the name of Brent Millikan, the name of Alex Kish wasn't used. Councilperson Gillespie stated she wanted someone to corne up to speed quickly. Mayor Wessler stated she has no problem with the audit and she called Ron Ferland the morning after Council decided that's what they wanted to do and told him they would be auditing their company's bills since 1986 and he said that's great, it will finally get it out in the air. Councilperson Gillespie asked if the Mayor would feel better if they get two prices, one from Brent Millikan and one from another. Ms. Clayton stated they cannot do that. Mayor Wessler stated she doesn't think they'll get a smaller price because Brent Millikan used to work here because that's been years since he worked here. Councilman Jones stated the issue is they want the books done regardless of who does it, and as long as it's professional, reputable auditors, what does it matter. Councilperson Gillespie agreed. Councilman Jones suggested they keep any controversy out of the arena, such as Dyer, R i dd 1 e, Mi 11 s & Precourt, which is a good firm, just like Brent Millikan is. Councilman Hays asked the specific comments the Mayor or Councilman Jones or anyone else heard from the citizens aside from the fact that Brent Millikan worked for the City before that would address their ability or any accusation that there was something there that might be shady. He noted they're talking about a professional company and he can see an asset to have someone who has done the books before and knows the workings of the City and he can understand there may be some individuals that don't want them to do this but he would have to hear why and the excuse that they were here before doesn't do it. He added going through those numbers would be easier for someone who did it before. Mayor Wessler stated at least two people on this Council have said Alex Kish has a cross to burn with Jose' Alvarez. Councilman Hays said they are not involved with Jose' Alvarez. Mayor Wessler noted he was involved in CIP over this amount of time. Councilman Hays said when they severed relationships with Jose' Alvarez, they severed it and went their way. Mayor Wessler stated Councilperson Martin is saying what's the problem and why does she want this company but people are not going to look at her in a bad light because she wants to take someone the City doesn't know, but they're going to look at those that vote for this as what are they getting out of the deal. Councilperson Martin said she thinks that's their problem. Mayor Wessler said that comment came to her house and that's the light she's trying to keep from shedding on Edgewater. She said she doesn't see why they're so hell bent on hiring Brent Millikan. Councilperson Gillespie said because they were here before with the books but they didn't sign a contract and she hasn't spoken to them, the last time was in December when she asked them to explain the budget books because she couldn't understand them. Mayor Wessler asked why she didn't take it to Ernst & Young. Councilperson Gillespie said she didn't like the firm and didn't understand the system and it was her suggestion and her husband's to go to someone she trusted and that's who she went to. Councilman Jones stated Councilman Hays wants someone already in the books and Brent Millikan has a good reputation but if they find a mistake, they may not mention it if it was their mistake before so why open the door to something like this. He asked why they cannot get a firm they can all be happy with. Councilman Hays asked when Brent Millikan severed their relationship with the City. Mr. Munoz replied the last audit was the year ending September 30, 1988, and 1989 was when Ernst & Young started their audit. Councilman Hays asked the reason for changing the firm and was there a problem with Brent Millikan. Mr. Munoz said the RFP for auditors was his first project when he came on board. Councilperson Martin asked if they're inferring the majority of Council that voted for this audit with Brent Millikan made a poor decision, don't know how 8 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991 . " "', '-' .."", to make a decision, and did not look into it this decision before they made it. Mayor Wessler replied no, she thinks two other people are voicing their opinion and they will have the audit but they don't want fingers wagging at the City Council and if they want to change the audit from 89 to 90 when Brent Millikan didn't ever touch our books, that's fine. Councilperson Gillespie stated she has no problem with that and she'd change it to the period that they were not involved. Mr. Munoz said the last audit they did was through September 30, 1989, and the period from October 1, 1988 to September 30, 1989, was done by Ernst & Young. He added we got a new firm because they wanted to and Brent Millikan did make one of the top 3 or 5 and the final selection was for Ernst & Young. Councilperson Gillespie stated they were still suitable but not the final cut. Councilperson Gillespie moved to change the period to be covered. Ms. Clayton said they're just discussing it and she came with a legal opinion to tell them as far as the motion was concerned it was conditioned about determination of CCNA so they aren't here to reopen the action. She said the idea of an audit is to get a complete picture of the money spent for purposes and if you break up the time when the funds were expanded it will only be half a picture and will not have a complete transaction analysis. She said they need to evaluate what they're looking for in the audit and it's best to get the firm that will give them an engagement prop05al to define what the engagement will be and the kind of investigative or performance audit that can be done and if they themselves since they were auditors at that period of time the mot ion covers have any provisional, ethical limitations and what the scope of the inquiry will produce and at that point you can determine if you want to go forward. Councilperson Gillespie stated if that's not suitable or doesn't bring what the public is requesting, they could cease at that time since they have not signed the contract. Councilman Jones said it's not uncommon to change auditing firms every once in awhile. Ms. Clayton said they do it to spread the work around and for politics and because of dissatisfaction with the work. Councilperson Gillespie stated the contract has to come back to Council for vote. Ms. Clayton explained the motion was to engage them to do the work but in understanding what the work will be they'll have several revisits of the subject and at any time Council can reconsider whether they're proceeding or not. She reviewed complexities of various professional undertakings and said lay people who are not accustomed to CPA activities need to go step by step through what the engagement will entail to understand the services you will receive before you really start to spend the money. She said the State requires performance audits and management letters with your audits and Statutes require it but when you engage an independent service not regulated by Statute or otherwise its' good to understand exactly what you'll get. She added they're asking for fulfillment of a campaign promise and need to find out when they design the engagement if it meets the requirement. Councilperson Gillespie stated they can cease at any time. Ms. Clayton agreed. Councilperson Gillespie moved to adjourn. Councilman Jones seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 8:12 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser ~T~e:,~ I JI~ CITY CLERK Not approved) ~ Ap.~:.(Wed. th i s /,.aA day of __ , 199L-. t7 -~) . 'D f ''',,- (\ \ (~~iY~R)\\)~' ~>\ lL %~>-j 9 Council Special Meeting June 5, 1991