05-08-1991 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING/WORKSHOP
MAY 8, 1991
MINUTES
Mayor Wessler called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center.
She stated the meeting was called to meet jointly with the Land Development and
Regulatory Agency and Citizens Council Advisory Committee for review of the
Comprehensive Plan and the Department of Community Affairs settlement, plus any
direction for the two boards Council may want to address.
ROLL CALL
CITY COUNCIL/STAFF
Mayor Tanya Wessler
Councilman Kirk Jones
Councilperson Louise Martin
Councilperson NoraJane Gillespie
Councilman Michael Hays
Interim City Attorney Nikki Clayton
Acting City Manager Fred Munoz
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Lt. McEver was present to represent the Police Department.
LAND DEVELOPMENT AND REGULATORY AGENCY
Robert Garthwaite
Peter Hell sten
Billy Klein
Dominick Fazzone
Ronald Hildenbrand
Donald Masso
William Rossiter
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Present
Arrived Later
CITIZENS COUNCIL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Ray Wasarhaley
James Mackie
Stanley Carlson
Ed Janus
Phyllis Woodard
Janet Ptaszek
Earl Copeland
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Mr. Mark Karet, Director of Planning and Zoning, reviewed the status of
negotiations with Department of Community Affairs regarding the issues they'd
commented on in our Comprehensive Plan. He explained DCA will send us portions
they develop of the stipulated agreement which will be brought to LDRA and
Council and the Advisory Committee for decisions. He reviewed the various areas
of concern (copy attached). He stated most of the infrastructure is essentially
done for planning purposes and now they have to look beyond the basics to decide
where the City will go in the future and begin to develop a direction that has
some vision.
Dominick Fazzone, LDRA, expressed concern that he doesn't have the latest Comp
Plan book and there's an objective of October 1, 1990, for the City to assign
responsibility for the housing program to an individual. He asked if someone
is doing that now. Mr. Karet replied many programs identified on the Comp Plan
have not been implemented yet. He explained appointment of someone isn't saying
a new individual be hired but that those responsibilities be designated to
individuals already on staff and much will occur during land development
regulations which have not been adopted yet.
Rav Anderson, 1905 S. Riverside Drive, asked Mr. Karet's opinion of interaction
with the County regarding land development uses. He said he's been trying for
months to find out what section of the Comp Plan is in effect and he went to the
State and County levels and now local and it seems the County has the final say.
He added he discussed this with Ms. Clayton.
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Ms. Clayton stated the review for consistency has to occur before the Plan takes
effect in the City. Mr. Karet explained it's the Vo1usia Growth Management
Commission, not the County. Ms. Clayton stated she feels that in Vo1usia County,
which is a Charter County, the effective date of the adoption has been superseded
by the County that says until it's reviewed, the City's Plan is not in effect.
She said Mrs. Gillespie talked to DCA and she understands there was a legal
opinion that State Statutes require that it take effect, but with the Charter
overlap, she feels they're in agreement with what she said that the City.s Plan
is not in effect until Vo1usia Growth Management reviews it for consistency.
Mr. Anderson asked when they wi 11 have the Growth Management rev i ew. Ms. Clayton
said it will follow DCA review and approval of the Plan and then it will come
back to Vo1usia Commission and she doesn't know how long it takes to get on the
agenda. Mr. Karet explained they're tentatively scheduled to go to Vo1usia
Growth Management Commission at their meeting the last Wednesday in June and they
hope to take care of DCA prior to that time.
Henry Dardinski, 2704 Saba1 Palm, stated there are inconsistent building codes
with homes going up with some at $75-$100,000 next door to a $50-$60,000 home.
He referred to bu i1 ding codes in the North. He suggested to protect the
homeowners they should have a consistent building code and not just a number of
square feet. He sa i d there I s no reason why the City cannot adopt its own
building codes and they're not protecting residents with present codes.
Mayor Wessler asked for comments from LDRA members since they'd requested this
meeting. Chairman Pete He11sten stated the purpose was at the suggestion of
Ms. Clayton to have some kind of understanding between Council and LDRA regarding
mutual interaction and the thought was to get dialogue going on what Council
wants LDRA to do. He sa i d the Comp Plan is a catch up document and they
recommended against adoption because they didn't feel it was complete and didn't
represent a long range guide of where they want the City to go in the next 10
years or so and they want to get the wheels in motion to provide that guidance.
He said the Comp Plan needs to be gone through in great detail and LDRA hasn't
been able to do it and for one reason or another they don1t have a copy of the
Plan they requested. He noted a problem is enforcement and a lot of things they
see occur after the fact that should have enforcement. He said Council could
consider funds and personnel be in place to try to nip it in the bud before it
gets out of control. He added it will take a lot of time and effort and more
resources. Counci1person Gillespie agreed with Mr. He11sten and referred to
changes since she moved here in 1957 and said Mr. Karet has worked hard and long
with DCA to get them to back off a little.
Mr. Karet explained LDRA doesn1t have the Comp Plan in this form but it was
produced piecemeal and they got it in dribs and drabs. He said they're waiting
to get the final version out when they.re done with Growth Management Commission
and that hearing has been postponed since June last year and they kept feeling
the final version was just around the corner. Mr. Fazzone pointed out they
weren1t criticizing, Mr. Karet has supplied them with more information than
anyone before him and they thank him. He added the problem is pressure they
get from outside people and this board is mandated by the State for what its
responsibilities are, with the Comp Plan being one of them. He said they have
to make tough decisions and are very unpopular but they have to base their
decisions on zoning laws and codes, not emotions of the people, because nobody
wants to see development around their home. He stated in the last 6-9 months
LDRA has lacked legal counsel and some things they have to deal with go beyond
the Code book. He pointed out if they.d had legal counsel at one meeting they
wouldn't have made the error of coming back and trying to reconsider something
they shouldn't have and he wishes Ms. Clayton could be around to help in the
future. He referred to time spent with the new land development codes and having
to adopt uniform codes. He said they're on the right track with the new Comp
Plan and new land development code and the City's beginning to go into the 20th
century with the CIP. He said for the first time in the 5-6 years he's come to
meetings a Council is making tough decisions and trying to do what's right for
the City, and they might not always agree, but they are the elected people.
Ms. Clayton stated when she appeared before LDRA she tried to describe her
approach in other jurisdictions on legal representation at different levels and
she tries to encourage advisory boards to try to do their work in a less
technical and legal way with those matters to be addressed at Council level.
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May 8, 1991
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Councilman Jones referred to the time spent on the Parks and Recreation Board
with no direction and said with the new Camp Plan they should be able to get
documents and guidelines that can make their decision easier. He said Council
has to direct staff to start tearing down barriers.
Mr. Hellsten referred to rapid growth the last 10 years and how it will continue
to grow in the next 10-20 years. He pointed out if they1re going to be effective
in managing this growth they have to set the plan in motion almost immediately.
He asked what they want in a sign ordinance as they tried to strike a middle
ground. He said the Camp Plan is a catch up document, it is not a planning
document, and LDRA does not know where Council wants to be 10-20 years from now
and they need a consensus of direction as soon as possible. Councilman Jones
said he feels they1re on the way and the vision they want to see is a committee
that can rely on each other, knowing they1re trying to work with the CIP, and
not discourage growth but plan it wisely and be able to say they don1t want
everyone to come in because we're building cheap, affordable homes. He added
they want strategies in place, such as recreational infrastructure, and referred
to the State standards for recreational space.
Mayor Wessler stated Council should express their vision on growth and what they
want to see in the City. Mr. Hellsten asked if they want a golf course in the
commun i ty because he I s heard both sides of the argument and they made the
recommendation. Council person Martin asked if they should go forward just
because it was recommended. Mr. Hellsten replied no, but they'd like some under-
standing or a picture of where they're going and he used the golf course as an
example because it was so divisive. Councilperson Martin stated first you find
the means of getting the money. Mr. Hellsten stated planning comes first and
then the financing. Mayor Wessler said it would be up to Council to do that if
they make the recommendation.
Councilperson Martin stated she always found if they followed the codes or zoning
regulations no judge would fault you for that and stay away from getting personal
decisions or feelings on it. She noted there's a lot of growth and a lot of
expense involved and they should do a careful study of it. She said she wants
to see growth but not to be an expense of the taxpayer.
Councilperson Gillespie stated she's not a zero growth person and wants to see
it planned and responsive to needs of the community and Council has to know what
the community expects to receive and what they should receive under the law.
She said the advisory committee responds to the outside and issues from Council
they can help with and she feels it will also help LDRA. She added they're
feeding information in and picking up things that cannot be handled. She said
the City used to be tight knit and they1re so big now, but the feeling of warmth
can prevail.
Councilman Hays said regarding their responsibilities and authority and need for
legal counsel and advice on their decisions during these meetings, he wonders
if it's how Ordinance 88-0-8 was worded that gives the perception and if they
need to consider it. He said they work very hard for Council and they may want
to ask how they perceive it and may need Ms. Clayton's advice. He said Mark
Karet started the discussion with lack of vision in the Comp Plan and the Plan
isn't user friendly and held like input on how they can make it more user
friendly. He said Mr. Hellsten says planning isn't being accomplished and
enforcement prior to the problem is very important and they need to address that.
He suggested they plan a vision day to address needs of residents, recreational
needs, and others, with one topic each time, and get citizen input that might
provide guidance so they don't make a wrong turn and have to back up. He added
they1re looking at more than one type of house being built. He suggested they
could do it on a Saturday and the public could come in as held like to get this
out of a more formal atmosphere.
Bill Rossiter, LDRA, stated they have a good opportunity with the water billing
system to have an ongoing questionnaire on the back and that might be more
efficient than meeting on a Saturday. Mayor Wessler agreed a vision day would
be nice but some people never attend Council meetings and they need representa-
tion also. She added she's for responsible growth, not like Florida Shores.
She said taxes will keep going up if they don't have growth and they have to
pay Police and Fire but responsible growth is how she1d like to see Edgewater
grow. She added they're not just focussing on CIP.
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May 8, 1991
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Mayor Wessler stated regarding mobile homes or stick built houses, she doesn't
feel people should say what kind of house people should live in and there are
a lot of people who come to Council meetings and speak very strongly on an issue
but they need to look at other sides also. She said they need to go around town
and make people aware of what's going on and see how they feel. She said when
making decisions, Council and the advisory boards cannot be swayed by just the
people who come to meetings, as the remaining 14-15,000 don't attend.
Dominick Fazzone asked the status of the newsletter that Mrs. Gillespie was going
to get out. City Clerk Susan Wadsworth said the printer is on line and they're
in the process of putting information in the computer to publish a newsletter.
There was brief discussion about the newsletter. Councilperson Gillespie stated
the letter on the CIP and special assessment will go to every home affected and
the newsletter will be non-political.
Mayor Wessler said her view of LDRA is technical and they base their decisions
on what ordinances say and that's where recommendat ions come from and they shou ld
recommend, not approve or deny. She said the Citizens Board would give them a
less technical view point, such as "coming soon" signs. She said some of these
codes are redundant and she again referred to the signs. Mr. Hellsten said he
understands her feelings and agrees, but there's an ordinance that sets out
specific duties and responsibilities and they'd be in violation of it. There
was discussion regarding work done on the new ordinance and Mr. Hellsten
commented on the good job done by Mr. Karet. He suggested they list the 3 most
important things they want to see in the next 10 years and 3 things they want
to see fixed. Mayor Wessler suggested a vision day with homeowners' associations.
Councilman Hays agreed it's a good idea but they need to break it up because some
people aren't interested in industry or commercial or residential development.
He noted recreation is a big idea for a lot of people and they may want to focus
on it and then go to another because they cannot do all at one time. Mayor
Wessler stated some people have no interest in industrial development and perhaps
each board could have a vision day and have some member of Council attend. She
suggested then the board meet away from Council and write what they get from
vision day and Council can do the same and see if they agree.
Ms. Clayton referred to a situation with the National Home Builders Association
about impact fees and said she can make a document available to them.
There was discussion on our Comp Plan's readability and comparison to others.
Ray Wasarhalev, Chairman, Citizens Council Advisory Committee, stated they're
trying to find out how to help without getting in any other board's way and not
stepping on any toes. Mayor Wessler asked what Council can do for their board.
Councilperson Gi llespie referred to an exce llent descript ion of their dut ies read
by Stan Carlson. Mr. Wasarhaley said they drew up an idea that should be coming
to them soon. He agreed they need to decide where the City wants to go and
pointed out construction is our industry and it's our only industry and now it's
becoming a problem. He said they have to look at the desired economic base and
they're getting at a build out stage in about 20 years and they need infra-
structure to produce income. He added industrial planning is very important
because that's where the bulk of the tax money comes from. He pointed out a part
of the City is getting to be old infrastructure and will need maintenance and
restoration. He said they're at the point it's time to do something and it's
not too late but it's coming out of the 80's. Mayor Wessler agreed they're going
in the right direction.
Mayor Wessler asked if they can grow to the West and how far. Mr. Karet replied
yes, but the largest problem is the Turnbull Hammock that's environmentally
sensitive. He noted it would be difficult to develop and creates some
disincentives to look at it and they'd have to jump the Hammock area past 95,
and the South has the most potential for growth and development.
Councilperson Martin suggested they set a committee of peers who have been here
to draw these up to show where they should grow and have information consolidated
and presented to Council. She suggested they use people who have been active
before in Edgewater. Mayor Wessler said they could get that information from
staff and then have a vision type day. She referred to a person who's lived here
for years who sa i d he doesn't care what happens 20 years from now. Counc il person
Martin said it would be a questionnaire about whether they're interested in
growth of the City.
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May 8, 1991
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Mr. Hellsten said growth will come and they have to look at the process of how
to mold that growth as the overriding influence is something they cannot control
and they have to worry about water because of other demands on the aquifer.
He added he thinks growth will be to the South at the Cape and weill go into
commercialization of space and it will provide jobs in this area. He referred
to Joe Martinis looking into industrial development for resources that will
support the community. He asked if they want to create a retirement community
or a younger community that puts more demand on schools and support structures.
Councilman Hays pointed out it will give the children a chance to get jobs in
our community rather than leaving. Mr. Hellsten said it will probably be a
balance, not one or the other, and they'll be driven by resources.
Councilman Hays asked about growth to the West because they looked at 4-laning
442 and spoke about extending 442 out to 415 to intersect the South end of Lake
Ashby. Mr. Karet noted that's 30 years out. Councilman Hays said that area's
starting to grow and they have the Turnbull Hammock but there's a large amount
of land that can be developed to the West and they'd have estuaries and areas
they wouldn't develop. Mr. Karet agreed potential for development is there.
Councilperson Gillespie stated in 1986 the City had the ability to go to Mission
Road and chose not to and it was brought back aga i n in 1989. She rev i ewed
property the City owns outside its limits and said they should include westward
growth and itls available to us. She said wetlands recreation and the Hammock
run South and come back on the 455 acre property being considered. She suggested
they not limit their vision to one thing and think big about what they can do
for the people, then come back to reality, because if you start at the top you
can cut back. She added Mr. Dard i nsk i I S concern about houses bu i 1 t was a
problem she had in New Smyrna Beach.
Mr. Karet agreed with many of the comments about not limiting themselves but
with planning they don't have the ability to direct resources and have to
anticipate and they're dealing with private market decisions and have to take
the opportun it i es as they come wi th i n an estab 1 i shed frame work. There was
discussion about planning and the market place.
Councilman Jones stated they're looking for good vision and he hopes it will come
out of a lot of their advisory boards to help Council with planning. He referred
to the hard work of the Industrial Development Board. He said they want to do
things acceptable to the community with input from the Council's Advisory board.
He noted planned growth will benefit the Parks and Recreation Board. He referred
to impact fees which developed Whistle Stop Park at no cost to taxpayers. He
said to control growth they have to make it pay for itself and not have another
Florida Shores and they're concerned now that some people cannot pay for infra-
structures in Florida Shores. He stated advisory boards will be an important
part of success in the community and he hopes Council can do the vision program.
Mr. Hellsten said the key is to be proactive and not reactive and Council has
to provide them with guidance. Mayor Wessler stated when people come to the City
they should offer them ways to do it rather than ways not to do it. Council-
person Martin said they need a projected report they can pick apart or add
suggestions to and have ground rules to start and not just keep talking. She
said the report should include resources and revenues they can all work from.
Councilperson Gillespie asked if there's a consolidation of the Comp Plan. Mayor
Wessler said they can say what they want to do and project and Mr. Munoz can
direct Department Heads to put it together. Mr. Munoz explained some information
is already available with population and revenues, etc. Mayor Wessler said they
could bring a pamphlet to a vision day with information on capacity of the water
and sewer plant, water revenues, and others. There was discussion regarding the
source of figures used by Joe Martin. Mayor Wessler suggested they get
information from each board on anything they could add and perhaps meet some
Saturday afternoon. Councilperson Martin said when she came to this town she
received a brochure of what goes on and at that time it was a debt free City and
the brochure made you feel you wanted to live in Edgewater. Mayor Wessler noted
debt free is not a reality now. Councilperson Gillespie said VCOG has a lot of
figures and the municipal government is the largest employer and the school
system is second.
Mr. Fazzone said Edgewater's on the move and it's nice to live here and if you
look at some surrounding cities they've had layoffs from government and growth
has been stagnant or gone down and tax rates are higher than Edgewater. He
5 Council Special Meeting/Workshop
May 8, 1991
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referred to tonight's meeting being true democracy and said citizens should
cooperate with each other to see the City goes forward because by not doing it
they're not helping themselves or the City to move into the 20th century.
Mayor Wessler said there was something in her box about annexation in Deland
that was turned down. Mr. Munoz noted they have one of the highest millage
rates. Mayor Wessler referred to Deland's relationship to the Water Authority.
Mr. Fazzone stated he was on MPO Citizens' Advisory Committee and they always
complained Edgewater didn't have representation at meetings but that's changed
with Mayor Wess 1 er and Mark Karet at meet i ngs and they Ire recogn i zing Edgewater' s
interested by joining the Water Cooperative that costs $10,000 a year and it
gives us a voice in running the group. Mayor Wessler said she attended VCOG and
MPO and is now on the State-wide MPO committee. Councilperson Gillespie said
she's on BAC County-wide and attended when Mayor Wessler could not.
Henry Oardinski stated this Council has made some tough decisions and will make
more in the future and various projects are guided by certain codes and
politicians have to react to electorate. He said if they evaluate issues and
consider all aspects, pro and con, and make decisions based on the best interests
of the City as a whole, not based on unit cry or petitions of individuals with
a vested interest in the project, 9 times in 10 they'll make the right decision.
Al Keaton stated they have a chance to show where the City's going for the next
20-30 years and to show people it's a progressive city. He referred to feeling
like placing blockades at the City limits at times but you can't do that and need
to encourage manufacturing businesses here. He said everyone wants employers
but what can be offered to them to encourage them to come here. He suggested
Council talk with the silent majority and get mailings out and not listen to just
a few people. He said they need to control growth but need to look at the
technology that will be here to take care of that future growth. He referred
to advancements over the years. Councilman Jones agreed with Mr. Keaton about
industry, they need to see what they can offer companies and be innovative and
take the first step to bring in industry. He said the Industrial Development
Board needs to brainstorm to get them here and they won't give up on the space
program and hope to attract good clean industry to the West or South.
Mayor Wessler suggested they change the name of Hospitality City to Vision City.
Councilperson Gillespie agreed. Mayor Wessler suggested they bring it up for
vote at the next meeting. Mr. Hellsten suggested they check to see if someone
else has that name. Mayor Wessler asked Mr. Munoz to look into it. Councilman
Hays said it could be a new logo and new image and they need to be very positive.
Mayor Wessler commended everyone and said every place she goes they see she's
very proud of Edgewater.
Councilman Jones moved to adjourn. Councilperson Gillespie seconded the motion.
Meeting adjourned at 9:13 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
7-u/
ATTEST:
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CITY CLERK I
APP~ this J 7 day of
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Council Special Meeting/Workshop
May 8, 1991