03-01-1989 - Special
'W'
""'"
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING WITH FIRE DEPARTMENT REPRESENTATIVES
MARCH 1, 1989
MINUTES
Mayor Mitchum called the meeting to order at 7:04 P.M. in the Community
Center. He stated the purpose was to meet jointly with the Fire Depart-
ment representatives to discuss the status of a paid Fire Department and
related issues.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Mitchum
Councilman Dan Hatfield
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Russell Gold
Councilman Thomas Fish
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Manager William Powers
Acting City Clerk S. Wadsworth
Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Fire Department representatives present were: Fire Chief Larry Carson,
Trevor Barlow, Pat DiLeva, Dan Taylor, Robert Iasimone, Tracey Barlow, and
Michael Hayes.
Chief Carson distributed copies of a listing of their calls and pointed out
that daytime responses are when they have problems. He said about 50% of the
calls are in that time frame from 7 to 5. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out
that the rescue calls are about even also. Chief Carson stated their problem
is that a lot of their people work and they don't have the time to do their
paper work and the tests of the hoses and pumps. He pointed out that the
Federal government has put more restrictions on the Fire Departments and
they don't have the time and the manpower to accomplish it. He stated that
they just came out with a firefighters safety program and it will change the
way they do their training and the equipment has to be changed around. He
said another area is hydrant testing and they don't know what pressure they
have at the hydrants or if they work. He pointed out a paid Fire Department
could keep them flushed and lubricated. He referred to the signs that are
supposed to be set up for all places in the City for hazardous materials
and a list that should be set up to determine the type of response.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if the City has any now and Mr. DiLeva replied
Coronado Paint. Chief Carson clarified that they get the information but
they don't have time to correllate it into a book. Councilwoman Bennington
asked if they ask about hazardous materials when they apply for an occupational
license. Acting City Clerk Wadsworth replied that David Jones inspects all
new businesses. Councilman Hatfield asked if the water department checks the
fire hydrants now, or whose responsibility it would be. Mr. Powers suggested
they may be able to get some people on summer projects and have them take
care of the threads and hydrants. Chief Carson pointed out that a paid depart-
ment could do that as part of their duties. Mr. Powers said he gets requests
from various universities for internships and they may be able to get someone
working in fire sciences to put it on a computer to get them back up to speed
and to supplement the manhours.
Mayor Mitchum asked if they know the number of calls made by New Smyrna Beach.
Chief Carson replied no, but they have 48 paid personnel in the department.
Mayor Mitchum asked their population and Mr. Powers replied 15,010. Chief
Carson advised they'd run 600 fire calls. There was discussion of the com-
parison in calls and number of stations.
Mayor Mitchum stated they need a paid Fire Department in Edgewater but the
question is where the money would come from. He pointed out they budgeted
for four paid personnel in FY 88-89. He said Deltona has a Fire taxing
district and they could let the voters decide up front and you control your
own taxes. He said they have to determine when to institute this, as they'd
discussed that the people have to pay the CIP at about the same time we're
asking them to pay for a Fire Department.
,..,
....,
Mayor Mitchum stated they discussed what to do until voter referendum,
with possibly going ahead and instituting what was in the budget for a
day time shift to get things started, and then sw~tch it over if it got
referendum approval, but the question arose as to what they'd do if the
voters turned it down.
Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that City employees are answering
calls during the days now. She asked if they're on the payroll when they
answer these or if they're working in the capacity of a professional fire-
fighter, in case something would happen to them. Mayor Mitchum replied
they're covered by workers compensation while on fire calls. Councilwoman
Bennington asked if they're taken off the payroll then and if there's a
violation of the union contract. Mr. Powers replied no, because they
don't have a paid department.
Councilman Fish asked the trend for the last couple of years and Chief
Carson replied it's on the increase. Trevor Barlow said they had 8 calls
that day, 2 for fire and 6 rescue.
Councilman Hatfield pointed out that if they go with the special taxing
district, they'll have to sell the program to the public, and it will be
a hard job with the CIP program. He expressed concern with the timing to
go to a special taxing district and suggested they go with four for the
next year. Councilwoman Bennington agreed with Councilman Hatfield and
suggested they look at a fire impact fee. Chief Carson replied it can be
used for capital items and equipment purchases. Mayor Mitchum stated
they can't use impact fees for operating costs. Councilman Hatfield noted
it could offset the cost of new equipment.
There was discussion of the current budgeted positions and the four City
employees who are currently answering calls and the number of hours spent.
Councilwoman Bennington asked how they'd set up the system with the four
person department. Chief Carson replied the paid firefighters would be
emergency medical technicians and would run rescue calls and they'd main-
tain the stations and equipment and test hydrants and handle public edu-
cation at the schools and the different homeowners associations. Council-
woman Bennington asked the shifts and Chief Carson replied it would be 8
hours a day with 5 day weeks. Councilwoman Bennington asked about week-ends
and evenings and Chief Carson replied it would be volunteers. Councilman
Fish asked if they'd have a working chief and Chief Carson replied yes,
and he'd be fighting fires the same as the others. Councilwoman Bennington
asked the other positions besides Chief and Chief Carson replied there
would be two driver engineers and a firefighter-inspector. He explained
that Dennis Kelly had set that up, one driver engineer would be the man in
charge and they'd have a firefighter, and the second engineer would take
the position of Lieutenant and make the decisions.
Councilwoman Bennington asked how many volunteers usually respond to a fire
and Chief Carson replied about 9 in the daytime. Trevor Barlow agreed
they'll have 9 or 10 in the days and for a car fire, 3 or 4 will show up,
so it depends on the nature of the calls.
Councilman Hatfield asked if the fire inspector would be under that and
Mayor Mitchum replied yes, that was included in the 4. Chief Carson stated
that one of the firefighters would be a fire inspector. Mayor Mitchum
pointed out it's a part time position now.
Councilman Fish asked how much longer they could continue with the system
as it is. Chief Carson replied they need to keep morale up. Mayor Mitchum
stated they're training personnel and they go elsewhere. Chief Carson
said he's worked professionally as a fireman in Orange County and Mike Hayes
has gone to Port Orange and others have applied elsewhere because they want
to work it as a profession. Councilman Gold stated that some people think
it's cheaper to train and lose than to pay because you're involved in a union,
and the tax base won't support it. Chief Carson pointed out the citizens have
supported the Fire Department very strongly.
-2-
Council Special Meeting with
Fire Department representatives
March 1, 1989
Minutes
~
..
~.
..""",
Mayor Mitchum asked what they could do to institute a referendum and the
figures as to what it would cost and what kind of millage rate would be
on the people. Councilwoman Bennington asked if it's for a special dis-
trict and Mayor Mitchum replied yes, and they need figures to go to the
people with, and they need to know the cost per household. Chief Carson
replied he figured about $25 per year per house.
Don Bennington, from the audience, asked the difference between raising
the millage and a special taxing district other than the voters approving
it. He asked how much it will reduce the homeowners fire insurance with
a paid Fire Department. Chief Carson said ours is ranked 7 and New Smyrna
Beach is 6, and he doesn't know what it would drop. Councilman Fish
pointed out that fire protection isn't the only issue and rescue calls are
a major consideration. He added that if they did it as a special taxing
district there's no question about where the money went and it allows them
a little more freedom with budgetary items and frees up the City from being
concerned about their budget.
Councilman Gold asked if it's $25 per year for a 4-person household. Chief
Carson replied it's a rough millage rate for a $100,000 house with homestead.
Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that if they went to the special taxing
district, the Fire Department would have to sell it to the public. She
asked if there's a problem with establishing a Fire Department and then
going to a special taxing district. Mayor Mitchum replied they'd discussed
it, but if it doesn't pass, then they'd be doing something the voters said
they don't want. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out they're already subsi-
dizing from other departments by paying for the training, and if they turn
down the special taxing district, that would mean they don't want a paid
complete department and they could keep it as a minimum and use volunteers.
Councilman Hatfield said they have to determine if they want it, and if
they want to go to a special taxing district will be left up to the voters,
and if they vote against it, they'll pay the fire department as they are now,
and he so moved. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion
CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Mitchum pointed out they need to get job descriptions. Mr. Powers
stated that we're requesting proposals for the wage and classification
study and they can include that, and then it's not an arbitrary figure and
keeps things in perspective. Councilwoman Bennington agreed and so moved.
Councilman Hatfield seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
David Jones, Fire Safety Inspector, suggested the City look into a substation
for EVAC for calls in Edgewater to Oak Hill. He referred to the response
time for beachside calls. He suggested they could use the Rescue station
as a temporary quarters.
Mayor Mitchum requested a motion
Councilman Hatfield seconded the
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
Councilman Fish so moved.
P.M.
ATTE8.T:
NC OMAN-
;'~0~{ilti V
C~LMAN - ZONE THREE \
v~~ /! ;la-I
COUNCILMAN - ZONE FOUR
~
-3- Council Special Meeting with
Fire Department representatives
March 1, 1989
Minutes