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03-01-1989 - Special 'W' ""'" CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING WITH FIRE DEPARTMENT REPRESENTATIVES MARCH 1, 1989 MINUTES Mayor Mitchum called the meeting to order at 7:04 P.M. in the Community Center. He stated the purpose was to meet jointly with the Fire Depart- ment representatives to discuss the status of a paid Fire Department and related issues. ROLL CALL Mayor David Mitchum Councilman Dan Hatfield Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Russell Gold Councilman Thomas Fish Present Present Present Present Present City Attorney Jose'Alvarez City Manager William Powers Acting City Clerk S. Wadsworth Chief Lawrence Schumaker Excused Present Present Present Fire Department representatives present were: Fire Chief Larry Carson, Trevor Barlow, Pat DiLeva, Dan Taylor, Robert Iasimone, Tracey Barlow, and Michael Hayes. Chief Carson distributed copies of a listing of their calls and pointed out that daytime responses are when they have problems. He said about 50% of the calls are in that time frame from 7 to 5. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that the rescue calls are about even also. Chief Carson stated their problem is that a lot of their people work and they don't have the time to do their paper work and the tests of the hoses and pumps. He pointed out that the Federal government has put more restrictions on the Fire Departments and they don't have the time and the manpower to accomplish it. He stated that they just came out with a firefighters safety program and it will change the way they do their training and the equipment has to be changed around. He said another area is hydrant testing and they don't know what pressure they have at the hydrants or if they work. He pointed out a paid Fire Department could keep them flushed and lubricated. He referred to the signs that are supposed to be set up for all places in the City for hazardous materials and a list that should be set up to determine the type of response. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the City has any now and Mr. DiLeva replied Coronado Paint. Chief Carson clarified that they get the information but they don't have time to correllate it into a book. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they ask about hazardous materials when they apply for an occupational license. Acting City Clerk Wadsworth replied that David Jones inspects all new businesses. Councilman Hatfield asked if the water department checks the fire hydrants now, or whose responsibility it would be. Mr. Powers suggested they may be able to get some people on summer projects and have them take care of the threads and hydrants. Chief Carson pointed out that a paid depart- ment could do that as part of their duties. Mr. Powers said he gets requests from various universities for internships and they may be able to get someone working in fire sciences to put it on a computer to get them back up to speed and to supplement the manhours. Mayor Mitchum asked if they know the number of calls made by New Smyrna Beach. Chief Carson replied no, but they have 48 paid personnel in the department. Mayor Mitchum asked their population and Mr. Powers replied 15,010. Chief Carson advised they'd run 600 fire calls. There was discussion of the com- parison in calls and number of stations. Mayor Mitchum stated they need a paid Fire Department in Edgewater but the question is where the money would come from. He pointed out they budgeted for four paid personnel in FY 88-89. He said Deltona has a Fire taxing district and they could let the voters decide up front and you control your own taxes. He said they have to determine when to institute this, as they'd discussed that the people have to pay the CIP at about the same time we're asking them to pay for a Fire Department. ,.., ...., Mayor Mitchum stated they discussed what to do until voter referendum, with possibly going ahead and instituting what was in the budget for a day time shift to get things started, and then sw~tch it over if it got referendum approval, but the question arose as to what they'd do if the voters turned it down. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that City employees are answering calls during the days now. She asked if they're on the payroll when they answer these or if they're working in the capacity of a professional fire- fighter, in case something would happen to them. Mayor Mitchum replied they're covered by workers compensation while on fire calls. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they're taken off the payroll then and if there's a violation of the union contract. Mr. Powers replied no, because they don't have a paid department. Councilman Fish asked the trend for the last couple of years and Chief Carson replied it's on the increase. Trevor Barlow said they had 8 calls that day, 2 for fire and 6 rescue. Councilman Hatfield pointed out that if they go with the special taxing district, they'll have to sell the program to the public, and it will be a hard job with the CIP program. He expressed concern with the timing to go to a special taxing district and suggested they go with four for the next year. Councilwoman Bennington agreed with Councilman Hatfield and suggested they look at a fire impact fee. Chief Carson replied it can be used for capital items and equipment purchases. Mayor Mitchum stated they can't use impact fees for operating costs. Councilman Hatfield noted it could offset the cost of new equipment. There was discussion of the current budgeted positions and the four City employees who are currently answering calls and the number of hours spent. Councilwoman Bennington asked how they'd set up the system with the four person department. Chief Carson replied the paid firefighters would be emergency medical technicians and would run rescue calls and they'd main- tain the stations and equipment and test hydrants and handle public edu- cation at the schools and the different homeowners associations. Council- woman Bennington asked the shifts and Chief Carson replied it would be 8 hours a day with 5 day weeks. Councilwoman Bennington asked about week-ends and evenings and Chief Carson replied it would be volunteers. Councilman Fish asked if they'd have a working chief and Chief Carson replied yes, and he'd be fighting fires the same as the others. Councilwoman Bennington asked the other positions besides Chief and Chief Carson replied there would be two driver engineers and a firefighter-inspector. He explained that Dennis Kelly had set that up, one driver engineer would be the man in charge and they'd have a firefighter, and the second engineer would take the position of Lieutenant and make the decisions. Councilwoman Bennington asked how many volunteers usually respond to a fire and Chief Carson replied about 9 in the daytime. Trevor Barlow agreed they'll have 9 or 10 in the days and for a car fire, 3 or 4 will show up, so it depends on the nature of the calls. Councilman Hatfield asked if the fire inspector would be under that and Mayor Mitchum replied yes, that was included in the 4. Chief Carson stated that one of the firefighters would be a fire inspector. Mayor Mitchum pointed out it's a part time position now. Councilman Fish asked how much longer they could continue with the system as it is. Chief Carson replied they need to keep morale up. Mayor Mitchum stated they're training personnel and they go elsewhere. Chief Carson said he's worked professionally as a fireman in Orange County and Mike Hayes has gone to Port Orange and others have applied elsewhere because they want to work it as a profession. Councilman Gold stated that some people think it's cheaper to train and lose than to pay because you're involved in a union, and the tax base won't support it. Chief Carson pointed out the citizens have supported the Fire Department very strongly. -2- Council Special Meeting with Fire Department representatives March 1, 1989 Minutes ~ .. ~. ..""", Mayor Mitchum asked what they could do to institute a referendum and the figures as to what it would cost and what kind of millage rate would be on the people. Councilwoman Bennington asked if it's for a special dis- trict and Mayor Mitchum replied yes, and they need figures to go to the people with, and they need to know the cost per household. Chief Carson replied he figured about $25 per year per house. Don Bennington, from the audience, asked the difference between raising the millage and a special taxing district other than the voters approving it. He asked how much it will reduce the homeowners fire insurance with a paid Fire Department. Chief Carson said ours is ranked 7 and New Smyrna Beach is 6, and he doesn't know what it would drop. Councilman Fish pointed out that fire protection isn't the only issue and rescue calls are a major consideration. He added that if they did it as a special taxing district there's no question about where the money went and it allows them a little more freedom with budgetary items and frees up the City from being concerned about their budget. Councilman Gold asked if it's $25 per year for a 4-person household. Chief Carson replied it's a rough millage rate for a $100,000 house with homestead. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that if they went to the special taxing district, the Fire Department would have to sell it to the public. She asked if there's a problem with establishing a Fire Department and then going to a special taxing district. Mayor Mitchum replied they'd discussed it, but if it doesn't pass, then they'd be doing something the voters said they don't want. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out they're already subsi- dizing from other departments by paying for the training, and if they turn down the special taxing district, that would mean they don't want a paid complete department and they could keep it as a minimum and use volunteers. Councilman Hatfield said they have to determine if they want it, and if they want to go to a special taxing district will be left up to the voters, and if they vote against it, they'll pay the fire department as they are now, and he so moved. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. Mayor Mitchum pointed out they need to get job descriptions. Mr. Powers stated that we're requesting proposals for the wage and classification study and they can include that, and then it's not an arbitrary figure and keeps things in perspective. Councilwoman Bennington agreed and so moved. Councilman Hatfield seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. David Jones, Fire Safety Inspector, suggested the City look into a substation for EVAC for calls in Edgewater to Oak Hill. He referred to the response time for beachside calls. He suggested they could use the Rescue station as a temporary quarters. Mayor Mitchum requested a motion Councilman Hatfield seconded the Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser Councilman Fish so moved. P.M. ATTE8.T: NC OMAN- ;'~0~{ilti V C~LMAN - ZONE THREE \ v~~ /! ;la-I COUNCILMAN - ZONE FOUR ~ -3- Council Special Meeting with Fire Department representatives March 1, 1989 Minutes