04-20-1989 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING & WORKSHOP
APRIL 20, 1989
MINUTES
Mayor Mitchum called the Special Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the Community Center. He stated the Special Meeting was called to
accept financing proposals for the computer lease purchase and to
authorize purchase of parts needed for the City's trash incinerator
from a sole source manufacturer, followed by a Workshop to discuss
the Shangri-La drainage problems and the two properties offered to
the City located at 104 North Park Place and 131 East Park Avenue.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Mitchum
Councilman Dan Hatfield
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Russell Gold
Councilman Thomas Fish
City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
City Manager William Powers
Acting City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Mr. Ron Ferland of Dyer, Riddle, Mills & Precourt, Inc. was also
present.
Financina Dro~osals for comDuter lease Durchase - Mr. Powers read
his April 20, 1989, Request for Council Action which recommended
the proposals be awarded to Southeast Bank, N.A. of Edgewater, with
direction to the City Attorney to draw up a resolution for the
April 24th meeting. He read the various interest rates of those
responding, pointing out there would be no fiscal impact this year
as payments would be due 4/24/90,-91, and -92. Councilman Fish
moved that they accept alternative 1 and award the financing to
Southeast Bank and have the City Attorney draw up the necessary
documents and review the note. Councilwoman Bennington seconded
the motion. Mayor Mitchum stated this is for $66,000. Councilman
Hatfield asked what they'd do if the City Attorney finds it unsat-
isfactory and Mayor Mitchum replied then they wouldn't act on it.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Purchase of Darts needed for City's trash incinerator from sole
source manufacturer - Mr. Powers read his April 19, 1989, memo
asking for approval to allow repair and parts for the trash
incinerator. He stated the approximate cost would be $6,000 and
the production schedule would be in about 3 weeks. He added that
funding is in the budget that they can reallocate as this was an
unforeseen expense. Councilman Gold moved to authorize them to go
ahead and order these parts. Councilman Hatfield seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Mitchum requested a motion to adjourn the Special Meeting.
Councilman Hatfield so moved. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the
motion. Meeting was adjourned at 7:06 p.m.
Mayor Mitchum called the Workshop to order at 7:07 p.m., stating
that all members were present.
Shanari-La drainaae problem - Mr. Ron Ferland, Dyer, Riddle, Mills
& Precourt, Inc., stated he reviewed the subdivision plans and
they're sending a letter to the developer indicating where they
show deficiencies in regard to the City's stormwater regulations.
He said there's nothing in the files of record with their drawings
so he can't be sure what is on the plans is on the ground. He
pointed out they have construction drawings and they can assume
the drawings are what the subdivision was built as, but they aren't
sealed and signed by an engineer and doesn't say it's official.
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Shanari-La drainaae Droblems (Cont'd)
Mr. Ferland stated that the original site had a drainage ditch
running through the middle about halfway westward and the original
plans showed a 36" pipe running through the middle of Shangri-La
to take that flow from the adjacent subdivision and discharge it
to the north of Shangri-La. He stated that between the original
plans and revision #3 set of plans, the 36" culvert was eliminated
and the ditch was filled in and the flow was routed to the Shangri-
La retention ditch. He explained that pre-development flow is
where you have percolation and going to another system and post-
development flow under current regulations would say they cannot
discharge stormwater off the site at a higher rate than what it
would flow at pre-development flow. He said they took all the flow
and had it come out at the westward end of the subdivision and they
overloaded it by taking everything to that one point of discharge.
He added that the 100 year flood plain was encroached in the far
western portion of the site where the detention basin is. He
pointed out that anytime you fill in the 100 year flood plain,
there is a theory of compensating storage, and if you fill in and
raise it up, you should compensate by digging a basin or providing
a flood plain elsewhere on the site. He stated the flood plains
were filled in but no compensating storage was provided for and all
water has to be concentrated at one point. Mr. Ferland stated that
there appeared to be an attempt to solve the problem through a tri-
party agreement between the School Board, the developer, and the
City, and it called for the School Board to donate a parcel west
of the subdivision for the stormwater facility to be constructed
and provide piping and the City would accept it for maintenance.
He said there was a clause in the agreement that if the developer
took no action within a year, the agreement was null and void, and
he doesn't know why no action was taken.
Mr. Ferland stated the crux of the problem is water doesn't move
uphill and they seem to have a persistent and chronic groundwater
problem on the site and adjacent to the site.
Mr. Ferland showed on the plans the elevation of the roadways. He
stated the center of the cuI de sac adjacent to the basin is at an
elevation of 8.9 and the pond berm elevation is at 10., so water
will come to 10 feet before it will overflow the berm. He said
there's a swale for the pond to discharge but the swale is at an
elevation of 9 and there's an 8 or 12" pipe that can take water out
of the pond. He said the water level elevation in the pond is
about 18" from the top of the pond elevation so it's at about 8-
1/2 or 9 feet and the roadway is at 8.9 feet, so with heavy
rainfall they wouldn't move water off the site because the pond
elevation never drops because the canal they discharge into is the
same elevation at about 9 feet above sea level. He pointed out
that when he looks into the drainage culverts, it's 6" to 8" below
the grates and they should empty to function properly.
Mr. Ferland stated that the cracked and broken asphalt is because
the water is coming into the lime rock base of the road and
deteriorating it further. He pointed out the low level of traffic
has prevented it from being ruined.
Mr. Ferland stated that at Council's pleasure, they'll send a
follow up letter to the developer specifying exactly the
deficiencies in the design system and put it back on him to make
the improvements. He said the groundwater table wasn't taken into
account sufficiently when they designed the system and they didn't
compensate for the flood plain when they did the filling. He
explained that they provided for drainage of the offsite parcel
because by riparian rights there was an existing drainage ditch he
2 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20, 1989
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Shangri-La drainaae problems (Cont'd)
filled in so he had to provide for drainage to the adjacent parcel
and not to the stormwater basin. He said he hasn't seen the storm-
water calculations and doesn't know if that's a valid assumption.
Mr. Ferland stated that the adjacent parcel to Shangri-La is under
site review and they'll take theirs off the Shangri-La system and
it will no longer drain to that system. He said it will not
resol ve the recurring problem of flooding every time it rains
because if there were a long drought, the water level would not go
down enough.
Mr. Ferland stated that regarding liability and who is responsible,
he can only recommend to Council, based on the review of the
records and on legal opinions, that corrective measures should be
taken and the program should be incorporated in the ClP program and
the cost for corrective action to be equitable to the total purpose
of the City to be handled with a special assessment in the Shangri-
La Subdivision.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if they'd heard from the developer.
Mr. Ferland replied that the first letter they sent was that they
fel t since it was not accepted by the City, the burden of
correcti ve action is on the developer and it would take about
$5,000 maximum limit to analyze and provide a corrective solution
and the developer said as far as he was concerned, the City
accepted it for maintenance and he didn't feel they should partic-
ipate in correcting the problems.
Mr. Ferland stated that after careful review of the City's ordin-
ances regarding stormwater, they wrote regarding the areas they
found deficient and that letter didn't deal with technical matters
reviewed at this meeting. He added that he'd told them none of the
drawings in the City files are signed by a registered engineer and
do not meet the ordinance requirements. He said they didn't see
a bill of sale that the properties were free and clear of any
encumbrances to the benefit of the City. He reviewed how a lien
could be put on the property and they need a clear bill of sale.
He said the letter identifying the deficiencies was based on the
set of plans, the non-compensating flood plain, the lack of high
water table and lack of storage in the basin and pre and post
development calculations and the acceptance of offsite drainage
water in the drainage system. Mayor Mitchum asked if he will
follow up with that now and Mr. Ferland replied yes.
Mr. Frank Ferguson, Shangri-La Homeowners Association President,
displayed plans for Council's review. He stated that they
requested and were denied them from City Hall and they went to the
Court House and got a document of a dedication of the property to
the City and Council accepted the property in 1981. Mayor Mitchum
pointed out that was accepting the plan. Mr. Ferguson agreed and
said the topo sheet shows the elevations. He reviewed the
elevations of the retention pond, the sub plain, the center of the
cuI de sac, and the catch basins.
Mr. Ferguson stated that the first set of plans called for a 36"
line coming out Paradise Lane and out through the low area. He
pointed out he has correspondence since 1981 and there was never
a response by the City to the deletion of the 36" pipe upon the
request of Mr. Coleman's attorney which gave the City enough time
to reply.
Mr. Ferguson said they should have continued the line like it
belongs and it should have catch basins for the eastern part of
Shangri-La to take that much load off the line, but they eliminated
it with no correspondence. He said there's a letter referencing
that Mr. Coleman was to take the 36" line on the south side to his
property line and there was a catch basin built on the other side
by Ed Hall when he owned the property, and upon completion, Mr.
Coleman was going to the property line to hook it up but that was
3 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20, 1989
Shanari-La drainaae problems (Cont'd)
never done. He stated that in 1986 Mr. Coleman opened it up and
found there was a section of pipe left out and it left a large hole
and he bought two pipes and fastened it together and poured
concrete on it. He pointed out that's against any construction
regulations, there's no opening to clean it out and it shouldn't
have been permitted in the first place.
Mr. Ferguson stated that in 1986 they had Cory Engineers come in
to take elevations. He reviewed the elevations and the condition
of clogged pipes. He stated the retention pond was not built to
be a lake and in the dry season you should be able to mow it. He
said the swale and the 6" pipe were put in by the residents.
Mr. Ferguson stated the property where the condo's are built has
catch basins with false bottoms with a hole in the center. He
pointed out the development was approved by the City for the entire
drainage and it won't handle it. He reviewed the situation with
the School Board agreement and the attempt by City employees to
open up the old canal.
Mr. Ferguson read from the 1981 letter from Briley, Wild &
Associates, stating it was never answered by the City. He read
the 1982 letter from Mr. Mitchell regarding possible retention
problems with an answer to the April 16th letter that a visual
inspection was done and that the contractor was aware that the
potential problem exists to the west of the pond. He said they
never did the inspection and never pulled a final inspection on any
of it on the drainage system, the roadway, or anything else. Mr.
Ferguson read the October 16, 1982, letter regarding tabling of the
contract and a letter from Mr. Mitchell stating the retention pond
design will allow the flow. He read the March 7, 1983, letter from
Briley, Wild & Associates to the Acting City Manager regarding an
inspection of the drainage and sewer system with a note that the
water table was so low they visually inspected the drainage
structures and pipes. He read additional correspondence from 1985
and 1986 from Mrs. Martinez and City Engineer Ferrara. Council-
woman Bennington noted that there are contradictions in the City's
correspondence and Mr. Ferguson agreed, also with information given
to the City Council. Mr. Ferguson pointed out there was a February
23, 1986, letter from Shangri-La Board of Directors urging Council
to withhold final inspection until Mr. Coleman met all the required
conditions for the acceptance and requested permission to speak
when the application was presented to Council, but they were never
invited to take action.
Councilwoman Bennington asked about the maintenance bond and Mr.
Ferguson replied it was returned in 1986 or 1987. He said he asked
for a copy of that document and the time that bond was released to
him. Councilwoman Bennington asked how they could release the bond
for the subdivision if they never formally accepted it. Mr.
Ferguson read the December 18, 1986, letter from Cobb & Cole
regarding the acceptance of the improvements, the letter from Mrs.
Martinez stating the City had no responsibility to accept it, and
the January 12th letter from Cobb asking for specific complaints
and the City did not respond to him. He read another letter from
Cobb to the City Attorney saying the City did not respond to the
January 14th letter and transferring the subdivision improvements
to the City and the electric bill. He pointed out that the City
let his bond go and has given him a permit for another development
for another subdivision. Mayor Mitchum pointed out that an
attorney writing a letter does not bind the City in any way.
Mr. Ferguson stated they've paid impact fees on utilities that
should be in a workable condition and he doesn't agree with the
engineer or anyone saying it should cost them any money for
anything to be corrected in the subdivision because there was too
much in these letters that was left out that the City didn't do.
He referred to costs for lots in Shangri-La compared to Florida
Shores. He said the ClP shouldn't be set up to take care of this
4 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20, 1989
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Shangri-La drainaae oroblems (Cont'd)
because the ClP is for the expansion of a municipality for future
growth and anything up to that time should come under assessment,
and Shangri-La shouldn't be expected to pay for Florida Shores.
Mayor Mitchum explained they wouldn't expect Shangri-La to pay for
improvements in Florida Shores. Mr. Ferguson pointed out that Mr.
Ferland's recommendation was to pay for it. Mayor Mitchum
clarified that the recommendation was for their improvements only.
Mr. Ferguson stated they'd paid their impact fees and taxes and
feel it's up to the City of Edgewater, regardless of what it is,
to bring them up to date and get their water conditions straight-
ened out and take the roads over for City maintenance. He
questioned the liability there and if it would come under the
City's self-insurance. He said they were never notified the roads
weren't accepted and they could have got insurance to protect
themselves. He added that the past Council told them they could
have the property back and make a recreation area out of it. He
asked what the City plans to do with it after they get the water
problem corrected. He asked if they'd rent or lease it to them on
a short term lease so they can plan for getting liability for the
front and back entrance. He stated they're trying to keep this out
of litigation but they have to get an answer. He noted they signed
a petition on vacacting the property on the back entrance which
would open up on the industrial park, and they were told by the
developer that was one street in and one street out and it's a safe
community for them.
There was discussion about the status of the plans for the bank and
the review by the LDRA. Mr. Ferland stated that the bank and two
adjacent parcels will be directed to drain onto an on-site
retention pond that will hold a 100 year flood and will be
constructed by Marion and told to go to the south. He added that
the point of entry will be plugged to the Shangri-La system.
Councilman Hatfield requested copies of the information and
engineers letters.
Mr. Ferguson thanked Council for allowing them to meet and go over
their problems. He asked they give the fastest action that can be
obtained. Mayor Mitchum stated the engineers are working on this
and they'll make decisions as soon as possible.
Mayor Mitchum called a recess at 8:22 p.m. He called the workshop
back to order at 8:28 p.m.
Two ~roperties offered to City (located at 104 North Park Place and
131 East Park Avenue) - Mr. Powers stated they had offers of
properties at 131 East Park Avenue and 104 North Park Place, one
at $43,000 and the other asking $40,000, and they since received
an offer of $33,000 for the one property. He noted that this was
tabled for a Workshop. He said Council action would be whether
they want to consider those two small pieces of property or
authorize the Manager to go ahead and respond with whatever they
decide. Councilman Fish asked the future benefit of this
property and if they're looking to expand this complex or
relocating. Mayor Mitchum stated he'd prefer to look at relocating
as there's not enough there. Councilman Gold stated land to the
South should be looked at and they don't need this. Councilman
Fish suggested they thank them for the offer and put it on the next
agenda. It was agreed to wait until the regular meeting of May 1.
Councilman Fish moved to adjourn. Councilman Gold seconded the
motion. Workshop was adjourned at 8:31 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
5 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20,1989
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Special Meeting and Workshop Minutes
April 20,1989
ATTEST;
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AC~Y CLERK
Approved this I~- day
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6 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20, 1989
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Special Meeting and Workshop Minutes
April 20,1989
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Approved this 15- day
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6 Council Special Meeting &
Workshop Minutes
April 20, 1989
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