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06-06-1989 - Special/Workshop , ........ ..."" CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP JUNE 6, 1989 MINUTES Mayor David Mitchum called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Edgewater Library. He stated the purpose was for reviewing the role and relationship of the City Manager-City Counci 1 and to discuss the interviewing and hiring procedures for the permanent City Manager. ROLL CALL Mayor David Mitchum Councilman Dan Hatfield Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Russell Gold Councilman Thomas Fish City Attorney Jose' Alvarez Acting City Manager Susan Wadsworth Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Excused Present Present Present Present Mayor Mitchum excused Chief Schumaker and he left the meeting at this time. Councilman Fish so moved to go to the workshop. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Fish stated they need to come to a mutual understanding when they hire someone about what they expect from him and what he should expect from Council and it will be a negotiation situation. He said the basic understanding is that the City Manager is the one who does the day to day running of the City and financial matters, etc., and he1s to be a leader. Mayor Mitchum agreed, noting that he agrees with the ordinance creating the City Manager form of government. Mayor Mitchum stated that held talked with Frank Roberts from New Smyrna Beach who told him that their Commission confirms his selections for Department Heads and he can't just arbitrarily pick someone. Councilman Fish pointed out it would be the checks and balances system. City Attorney Alvarez read the portion from Ordinance 88-0-11 which gives the City Manager the authority to hire, fire, remove or suspend employees. He added that itls a standard ordinance that Pete Knowles brought to the City from the City Managers Association. Mayor Mitchum stated that he doesn't think Council should get into the day to day administration and if they hire someone, that person is answerable to Council and it1s his or her right to be able to handle the day to day. Councilman Fish agreed. Mayor Mitchum stated it should be a strong City Manager position but he likes the idea of confirmation, not for exercising authority, but it seems likes a good idea that the City Manager has their support in a decision like that. He reviewed the normal process of the department head being responsible for firing with the City Manager to answer to, and it wouldn't be a bad idea for the City Manager to select candidates and bring them to Counei 1 for confirmat ion and agreement, but it should stop with the system of checks and balances. Councilwoman Bennington stated that she'd talked with Charles McCool, former City Manager of Holly Hill who's in Cocoa Beach and was also in Port Richie, and who is on the Board of ICMA who reviews City Charters to see if they meet the standards of ICMA. She added that he told her there is a General Manager form and a City Manager form of government and the City Manager form has the power to hire or fire all employees with budgetary control and representing the City outside the City. She said she asked him if all the Department Heads as a checks and balance should be approved by Council and she was told it undermines the City Manager's powers. She agreed that Council should be able to concur with hiring of a Department Head and she doesn1t think a good City Manager would bring them anyone they wouldn't approve. 1 , , . '-' ... Councilman Hatfield pointed out that with Council overseeing the City Manager and hiring and firing, it puts him in a position that he has to prove his reasons for firing or hiring someone and takes away some degree of the buddy system. He added that he likes the idea of checks and balances even if it dilutes the powers somewhat. City Attorney Alvarez explained that the voters approved the Charter amendment that there shall be a City Manager and the Council has the power to appoint the City Manager and by ordinance shall establish the duties and responsibilities of the office and the terms and conditions of employment. He added that Edgewater has flexibility that some cities don't have because some cities have the duties listed in the Charter, but the ordinance can be amended to the way they feel will best serve the people. He suggested that the ordinance could be amended that the City Manager hires all employees and when it comes to Department Heads, he should seek the consent of Council. Mayor Mitchum asked if it would cover hiring or firing. City Attorney Alvarez replied that firing is pretty well determined by State and Federal laws with certain procedures to be followed. Councilwoman Bennington said that in reading other charters they basically say what our ordinance does in relationship to hiring and firing but then later it will say that Council will hire the Chief of Police, the City Clerk, and the Fire Ch i ef, wh i ch takes it away from the City Manager. She added that the City Manager is whatever they want him to be. Councilman Fish questioned how much they should water down his position from the. standpoint of concurrence with his selection for a candidate for a Department Head position because they don't replace Department Heads often. Councilwoman Bennington noted that if it happens often, they need a new City Manager. Mayor Mitchum again stated that the City Manager should be strong and if they can put in they confirm all Department Heads, his opinion is that's as far as it should go as he doesn1t want the City Manager to be a political football. He added that held only agree to confirmation of Department Heads. City Attorney Alvarez suggested the language could be: "The City Manager shall appoint, and when he deems necessary for the good of the service, suspend or remove all City employees, provided for and under this Charter except as provided for by law this Charter or personnel rules adopted pursuant to this Charter. The concurrence of a majority of the City Council shall be required for the hiring of Department Heads." Councilwoman Bennington briefly reviewed the previous problems with employees feeling there was a "gag" policy and they want to avoid that. Mayor Mitchum pointed out that in the past they've had Council members go to Department Heads and tell them to do something, but a good City Manager won1t let his Department Heads be badgered. Councilwoman Bennington agreed. Frank Roe stated Council should deal directly with the City Manager and not Department Heads because the Manager will know what1s going on and it will only cause trouble if they go to the Department Heads. Mayor Mitchum suggested that if they're going to a Department Head, they should tell the City Manager what the subject is as a professional courtesy. City Attorney Alvarez suggested they may want to address the City Managerls role from an external point of view, such as relationships with the organizations in the County and State and other entities. He added that he could be an 8-hour man supervising departments and day to day matters or the Manager could be engaging in placing the City on the political map of the State. Mayor Mitchum stated he thinks the Manager should be totally involved and any time held be out putting the City on the map the Council should be kept aware of it. He added that it could be contact with organizations within County governments or lobbying in Tallahassee or at the County level. Councilwoman Bennington agreed he doesn1t have to be at City Hall 8 hours a day. She pointed out he has to be a good p.r. person. Mayor Mitchum agreed, adding he should have a good personality. Mayor Mitchum stated the Charter revision draft should be ready for the City Manager's inspection. He added the Merit Board situation that came before them previously with the last City Manager should'nt come to Council because it's administrative and held like to see the Charter Review Committee, Chairman of the Merit Board, new City Manager, and City Attorney discuss this for a solution. 2 Council Special Meeting & Workshop June 6, 1989 ~ ....., Don Benninqton asked the checks and balances systems if a Department Head is fired by a City Manager, and if the Merit Board would protect them or if they have recourse. City Attorney Alvarez explained the Management personnel system ordinance which established the terms and conditions for Department Heads with procedures for disciplinary action and rights of appeal. Nancy Blazi asked if Council had given consideration to contracts with Department Heads and the City Manager would negotiate it and it would give them a little security. Mayor Mitchum replied held talked with New Smyrna Beach and they'd brought it up and it wasn't well received and he didn't know if he's an advocate. Mrs. Blazi suggested they consider it as some Department Heads have been here for years but really don't have security. City Attorney Alvarez reviewed the procedure for notification if a Department Head is terminated with written reasons of charges and the Department Head has the right to respond and receive a pre-termination hearing and the right to a full due process hearing. He noted that a recent opinion from the Eleventh Court of Appeals was that there's also the right to a post-termination name clearing hearing. He added that a person has a great deal of security in terms of court decisions and the way the ordinance reads. Mrs. Blazi suggested the Department Heads be made aware of this. Mayor Mitchum asked Acting City Manager Wadsworth to do that. Dom Fazzone, Charter Review Committee member, stated the Committee is addressing some of the things they're bringing up and the ordinance on the City Manager is very loose but the Charter speaks on the points they're discussing. He agreed they can't have a City Manager and dilute his powers or they won't have a City Manager form of government. He added they're writing a condensed, orderly Charter. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that under the general powers of the City Council in reference to administration, there's a whole paragraph telling them what they can and cannot do involving administration. City Attorney Alvarez reviewed the attempt at a City Manager form of government in the early 1980's. He suggested he might meet with Department Heads to talk to them about their rights if a City Manager tries to remove them. Don Benninqton stated what scared the people was the gag order. Councilman Hatfield stated that Mr. Powers had mentioned to him the good response he got from Council and in other cities held go from meeting to meeting without seeing the Council. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out this Council is aware of the affairs of the City and other Councils were involved in personal affairs. Nancy Blazi asked about the section in the Charter that states there shall be a City Clerk and what the Council plans to do about the position. She referred to a prior City Manager who meddled in elections and record keeping. Council- woman Benn i ngton rep 1 i ed they took care of that in the Charter. Mrs. B 1 az i suggested they make Susan Wadsworth the City Clerk since she's been in the Acting position for too long. She suggested the City Clerk's office be separate from the City Manager's because there are certain things he should not be able to interfere with and the City Clerk should act as Secretary to the Council. City Attorney Alvarez explained the proposed Charter makes the City Clerk a Charter Officer and it would be appointed by Council with certain responsibilities as provided by General Law and by ordinance. He added that the fault wasn't in the system, but in the position. Mayor Mitchum pointed out that a lot of people said the City Manager form didn't work but it's the people in the system and not the system. Frank Roe stated the situation that occurred in the past was when an employee goes to a Council member about a problem they have without going through the steps they're supposed to and these people wanted a hearing before Council and Council has more important business to do. He asked if the Charter will take care of that so it won't happen in the future. City Attorney Alvarez replied that if an employee bypasses the chain of command, that employee has committed a terminable offense and it's up to the Manager if he wants to take action or not. Mr. Roe stated it happened under Mr. Kelly and he brought it to his attention and the Council was involved. Mayor Mitchum stated it's up to the Council member to take a stand and put it in its perspective. Mr. Roe agreed it causes Council trouble. 3 Council Special Meeting & Workshop June 6, 1989 "-' ,..; Councilman Fish had distributed a scoring matrix and asked that Council look at it to use for weeding through the resumes to have the same criteria. Council- woman Benn i ngton agreed it's a good idea. She quest i oned the III arge City experience". Councilman Fish explained that almost everyone will have experience in small cities but some may have worked in large cities as an Assistant and then went to a smaller city as the Manager. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out there are two basic aspects, one is subjective and one is objective, and these are excellent points for objective. He noted that subjective aspects are the individual's demeanor. Councilman Fish stated this is just for resumes and he'll devise another sheet for the interviews. Councilwoman Bennington stated that with the City Manger profile they wanted someone with 5 years minimum experience, experience in Florida, and with experience in CIP. She said she found some problems with that in some of them with the CIP experience. She added that 1 iving in the City 1 imits wi 11 be required. Council members agreed. Councilwoman Bennington said she didn't want someone retired and wanting to get back in the position. Councilman Fish stated they should have BFOQ. Councilman Hatfield asked what they're considering intangibles. Councilman Fish replied it's a gut feeling. Councilman Hatfield asked if it would be to their advantage to have someone going from a large city to a small city. Mayor Mitchum replied they'd have to look at the total resume, not just the population of the city, but overall experience. Councilman Hatfield questioned why someone would want to regress. Councilwoman Bennington replied it's due to pressure. Mayor Mitchum stated that one of Edgewater's good points is the CIP program and it will be a great spot on someone's resume plus it will be a challenge. Councilman Hatfield apologized for expressing his concerns last week that they wouldn't have enough applicants. Mayor Mitchum stated he'd called Ray Sittig at Florida League of Cities who told him Edgewater isn't viewed in a bad light and that some of the people that have applied have talked with him about Edgewater. He added that he was told there's nothing unique about going through a couple of City Managers in the interim. Councilman Fish stated that large city experience was put there because he was concerned someone was a City Manager with the same population and this would be a large jump. Councilman Hatfield stated he'd like to look at someone with capabilities of being here at least 10 years. Frank Roe asked if theylre afraid of getting someone over-qualified. Council- woman Bennington replied no. Mr. Roe stated that if it's someone with a city 4 or 5 times our size, helll still be a better man than our present situation and if he lasts 2 years, they still had his experience during that time. Councilman Hatfield noted that with the different numbers of employees, the City Manager would have different things done for him or that held have to do himself. Councilman Fish pointed out these people are professionals and know that when they come a small city they'll have to work more. Mayor Mitchum agreed it's different in the chain of command with larger cities but he'll have to fit into the size of our city. Councilman Hatfield stated he wants to look at someone who has seen the type of growth they'll be looking at in the next 10 to 20 years and has dealt with it somewhere else. Councilman Fish pointed out that's another reason for wanting someone with Florida experience. Councilman Hatfield noted that the laws have changed so much just since they've been on Council. Mayor Mitchum called a recess at 8:02 p.m. He called the workshop back to order at 8:05 p.m. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they not pay for anyone to come for interview. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out that if they're interested in the job, they'll come. Councilman Fish noted a lot of private industries don I t pay. Mayor Mitchum noted part of the negotiations are paying for moving. Councilwoman Bennington suggested when they decide on a first choice and hire him and he gives notice, that during the notice Councilman Fish could do a background check with ca 11 i ng a 11 the Counc il members and check i ng wi th his ne i ghbors, and not necessarily have to go there, but making calls, then if anything comes up they'll ask the candidate to explain it if he still wants the job. Mayor Mitchum agreed. 4 Council Special Meeting & Workshop June 6, 1989 ... ~ Mayor Mitchum stated he doesn't think they need to require probation because with the last probation the only difference between probation and permanent was one month's severance pay and the person will serve at the will of Council. City Attorney Alvarez noted that under probation they haven't acquired the vested person rights and they can be let go for any reason, or no reason with no explanation or justification. Mayor Mitchum said he doesn't want the word probation to scare someone and if there's a big lie involved in someone getting hired, the City shouldn't be bound to pay for someone lying and it could be a part of the contract. City Attorney Alvarez agreed. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that's why they do the background check before hiring. City Attorney Alvarez sa i d the Counc i 1 has to dec i de how long they want to observe the performance and give him and them the opportunity to walk away from it. Don BenninQton asked if they could put something in the contract that it could be made null and void. Mayor Mitchum agreed. City Attorney Alvarez said Council can reserve the right to say good-bye for no reason within 3 or 6 months and that will eliminate the rights helll acquire by court decision to receive written notice and hearings, etc. He pointed out it has to be done in the contract. Councilwoman Bennington stated that when Mr. McCool was hired in Cocoa Beach they had a condition of a background check and the City Manager starts with a clean slate and everyone knows everyone is up front. Mayor Mitchum agreed that should come right after the selection. City Attorney Alvarez stated they'll want him to sign a release authorizing the City officials or designee of Council to conduct whatever it is. He added it's really a professional performance profile. Councilman Hatfield moved they go back to the special meeting. Frank Roe asked that they pick more than one so they'll have someone in reserve if something comes up. Councilman Fish seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Acting City Manager Wadsworth read Councilman Gold's selections: George McMahon; Donald Lusk; Dennis Sparks; Robert Ehrhart, Jr.; Albert Pierce; and Frank Hersman. Councilman Hatfield read his selections: George McMahon; Elly Johnson; Roman Yoder; Louise Miller; and Max Royle. Councilwoman Bennington read her selections: Max Royle, George McMahon; Elly Johnson; Donald Lusk; and Louise Miller. Councilman Fish read his selections: Elly Johnson; George McMahon; Donald Lusk; and Louise Miller. Mayor Mitchum read his selections: Richard Clark; Roman Yoder; George McMahon; Donald Lusk; and Elly Johnson. The count was tallied up with 5 votes for George McMahon; 4 for Elly Jonnson and Donald Lusk; 3 for Louise Miller; and 2 for Roman Yoder and Max Royle. Mayor Mitchum stated that Max Royle is in Seward, Alaska and won't be back until the end of July, but he has been in Florida. There was discussion about whether they'd want to wait until his return due to lack of availability. It was decided to go with just the four. Councilwoman Bennington moved they go with the first four: George McMahon; Elly Johnson; Louise Miller; and Donald Lusk. Councilman Fish seconded the motion. The scoring matrix was briefly discussed. Councilwoman Bennington included in her mot i on that the Act i ng City Clerk contact these peop 1 e and set up the interviews for next week. Mrs. Wadsworth agreed she'd set it up as soon as possible. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Frank Roe asked if Dennis Kelly had applied. Mayor Mitchum replied no. Mr. Roe commented that's too bad. There was discussion regarding available dates and times and if more than one interview would be held per evening. It was agreed there'd be a second interview if the final selection was close and that they wouldn't pay expenses for the interviews. Councilman Fish stated he had guidelines of questions they can't ask. He distributed copies to Council. Councilman Hatfield moved to adjourn. Councilman Fish seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 8:37 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser 5 Council Special Meeting & Workshop June 6, 1989 ......... ATTEST: ~/~ ACTING O1TY MANAGER ""'" MAYOR , \ ' (les COUNC MAN - Z '1 '" C EXCUSED COUNCIL AN - ZONE THREE ~ (/ ~ 6 Council Special Meeting & Workshop June 6, 1989