06-06-1989 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP
JUNE 6, 1989
MINUTES
Mayor David Mitchum called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Edgewater
Library. He stated the purpose was for reviewing the role and relationship of
the City Manager-City Counci 1 and to discuss the interviewing and hiring
procedures for the permanent City Manager.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Mitchum
Councilman Dan Hatfield
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Russell Gold
Councilman Thomas Fish
City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
Acting City Manager Susan Wadsworth
Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Present
Mayor Mitchum excused Chief Schumaker and he left the meeting at this time.
Councilman Fish so moved to go to the workshop. Councilwoman Bennington seconded
the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
Councilman Fish stated they need to come to a mutual understanding when they hire
someone about what they expect from him and what he should expect from Council
and it will be a negotiation situation. He said the basic understanding is that
the City Manager is the one who does the day to day running of the City and
financial matters, etc., and he1s to be a leader. Mayor Mitchum agreed, noting
that he agrees with the ordinance creating the City Manager form of government.
Mayor Mitchum stated that held talked with Frank Roberts from New Smyrna Beach
who told him that their Commission confirms his selections for Department Heads
and he can't just arbitrarily pick someone. Councilman Fish pointed out it would
be the checks and balances system. City Attorney Alvarez read the portion from
Ordinance 88-0-11 which gives the City Manager the authority to hire, fire,
remove or suspend employees. He added that itls a standard ordinance that Pete
Knowles brought to the City from the City Managers Association. Mayor Mitchum
stated that he doesn't think Council should get into the day to day
administration and if they hire someone, that person is answerable to Council
and it1s his or her right to be able to handle the day to day. Councilman Fish
agreed.
Mayor Mitchum stated it should be a strong City Manager position but he likes
the idea of confirmation, not for exercising authority, but it seems likes a
good idea that the City Manager has their support in a decision like that. He
reviewed the normal process of the department head being responsible for firing
with the City Manager to answer to, and it wouldn't be a bad idea for the City
Manager to select candidates and bring them to Counei 1 for confirmat ion and
agreement, but it should stop with the system of checks and balances.
Councilwoman Bennington stated that she'd talked with Charles McCool, former City
Manager of Holly Hill who's in Cocoa Beach and was also in Port Richie, and who
is on the Board of ICMA who reviews City Charters to see if they meet the
standards of ICMA. She added that he told her there is a General Manager form
and a City Manager form of government and the City Manager form has the power
to hire or fire all employees with budgetary control and representing the City
outside the City. She said she asked him if all the Department Heads as a checks
and balance should be approved by Council and she was told it undermines the City
Manager's powers. She agreed that Council should be able to concur with hiring
of a Department Head and she doesn1t think a good City Manager would bring them
anyone they wouldn't approve.
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Councilman Hatfield pointed out that with Council overseeing the City Manager
and hiring and firing, it puts him in a position that he has to prove his reasons
for firing or hiring someone and takes away some degree of the buddy system.
He added that he likes the idea of checks and balances even if it dilutes the
powers somewhat.
City Attorney Alvarez explained that the voters approved the Charter amendment
that there shall be a City Manager and the Council has the power to appoint the
City Manager and by ordinance shall establish the duties and responsibilities
of the office and the terms and conditions of employment. He added that
Edgewater has flexibility that some cities don't have because some cities have
the duties listed in the Charter, but the ordinance can be amended to the way
they feel will best serve the people. He suggested that the ordinance could be
amended that the City Manager hires all employees and when it comes to Department
Heads, he should seek the consent of Council. Mayor Mitchum asked if it would
cover hiring or firing. City Attorney Alvarez replied that firing is pretty well
determined by State and Federal laws with certain procedures to be followed.
Councilwoman Bennington said that in reading other charters they basically say
what our ordinance does in relationship to hiring and firing but then later it
will say that Council will hire the Chief of Police, the City Clerk, and the Fire
Ch i ef, wh i ch takes it away from the City Manager. She added that the City
Manager is whatever they want him to be.
Councilman Fish questioned how much they should water down his position from the.
standpoint of concurrence with his selection for a candidate for a Department
Head position because they don't replace Department Heads often. Councilwoman
Bennington noted that if it happens often, they need a new City Manager.
Mayor Mitchum again stated that the City Manager should be strong and if they
can put in they confirm all Department Heads, his opinion is that's as far as
it should go as he doesn1t want the City Manager to be a political football.
He added that held only agree to confirmation of Department Heads.
City Attorney Alvarez suggested the language could be: "The City Manager shall
appoint, and when he deems necessary for the good of the service, suspend or
remove all City employees, provided for and under this Charter except as
provided for by law this Charter or personnel rules adopted pursuant to this
Charter. The concurrence of a majority of the City Council shall be required
for the hiring of Department Heads."
Councilwoman Bennington briefly reviewed the previous problems with employees
feeling there was a "gag" policy and they want to avoid that. Mayor Mitchum
pointed out that in the past they've had Council members go to Department Heads
and tell them to do something, but a good City Manager won1t let his Department
Heads be badgered. Councilwoman Bennington agreed.
Frank Roe stated Council should deal directly with the City Manager and not
Department Heads because the Manager will know what1s going on and it will only
cause trouble if they go to the Department Heads. Mayor Mitchum suggested that
if they're going to a Department Head, they should tell the City Manager what
the subject is as a professional courtesy.
City Attorney Alvarez suggested they may want to address the City Managerls role
from an external point of view, such as relationships with the organizations in
the County and State and other entities. He added that he could be an 8-hour
man supervising departments and day to day matters or the Manager could be
engaging in placing the City on the political map of the State. Mayor Mitchum
stated he thinks the Manager should be totally involved and any time held be
out putting the City on the map the Council should be kept aware of it. He added
that it could be contact with organizations within County governments or lobbying
in Tallahassee or at the County level. Councilwoman Bennington agreed he doesn1t
have to be at City Hall 8 hours a day. She pointed out he has to be a good p.r.
person. Mayor Mitchum agreed, adding he should have a good personality.
Mayor Mitchum stated the Charter revision draft should be ready for the City
Manager's inspection. He added the Merit Board situation that came before them
previously with the last City Manager should'nt come to Council because it's
administrative and held like to see the Charter Review Committee, Chairman of
the Merit Board, new City Manager, and City Attorney discuss this for a solution.
2 Council Special Meeting & Workshop
June 6, 1989
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Don Benninqton asked the checks and balances systems if a Department Head is
fired by a City Manager, and if the Merit Board would protect them or if they
have recourse. City Attorney Alvarez explained the Management personnel system
ordinance which established the terms and conditions for Department Heads with
procedures for disciplinary action and rights of appeal.
Nancy Blazi asked if Council had given consideration to contracts with Department
Heads and the City Manager would negotiate it and it would give them a little
security. Mayor Mitchum replied held talked with New Smyrna Beach and they'd
brought it up and it wasn't well received and he didn't know if he's an advocate.
Mrs. Blazi suggested they consider it as some Department Heads have been here
for years but really don't have security. City Attorney Alvarez reviewed the
procedure for notification if a Department Head is terminated with written
reasons of charges and the Department Head has the right to respond and receive
a pre-termination hearing and the right to a full due process hearing. He noted
that a recent opinion from the Eleventh Court of Appeals was that there's also
the right to a post-termination name clearing hearing. He added that a person
has a great deal of security in terms of court decisions and the way the
ordinance reads. Mrs. Blazi suggested the Department Heads be made aware of
this. Mayor Mitchum asked Acting City Manager Wadsworth to do that.
Dom Fazzone, Charter Review Committee member, stated the Committee is addressing
some of the things they're bringing up and the ordinance on the City Manager is
very loose but the Charter speaks on the points they're discussing. He agreed
they can't have a City Manager and dilute his powers or they won't have a City
Manager form of government. He added they're writing a condensed, orderly
Charter. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that under the general powers of
the City Council in reference to administration, there's a whole paragraph
telling them what they can and cannot do involving administration.
City Attorney Alvarez reviewed the attempt at a City Manager form of government
in the early 1980's. He suggested he might meet with Department Heads to talk
to them about their rights if a City Manager tries to remove them.
Don Benninqton stated what scared the people was the gag order.
Councilman Hatfield stated that Mr. Powers had mentioned to him the good response
he got from Council and in other cities held go from meeting to meeting without
seeing the Council. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out this Council is aware of
the affairs of the City and other Councils were involved in personal affairs.
Nancy Blazi asked about the section in the Charter that states there shall be
a City Clerk and what the Council plans to do about the position. She referred
to a prior City Manager who meddled in elections and record keeping. Council-
woman Benn i ngton rep 1 i ed they took care of that in the Charter. Mrs. B 1 az i
suggested they make Susan Wadsworth the City Clerk since she's been in the Acting
position for too long. She suggested the City Clerk's office be separate from
the City Manager's because there are certain things he should not be able to
interfere with and the City Clerk should act as Secretary to the Council. City
Attorney Alvarez explained the proposed Charter makes the City Clerk a Charter
Officer and it would be appointed by Council with certain responsibilities as
provided by General Law and by ordinance. He added that the fault wasn't in the
system, but in the position. Mayor Mitchum pointed out that a lot of people
said the City Manager form didn't work but it's the people in the system and not
the system.
Frank Roe stated the situation that occurred in the past was when an employee
goes to a Council member about a problem they have without going through the
steps they're supposed to and these people wanted a hearing before Council and
Council has more important business to do. He asked if the Charter will take
care of that so it won't happen in the future. City Attorney Alvarez replied
that if an employee bypasses the chain of command, that employee has committed
a terminable offense and it's up to the Manager if he wants to take action or
not. Mr. Roe stated it happened under Mr. Kelly and he brought it to his
attention and the Council was involved. Mayor Mitchum stated it's up to the
Council member to take a stand and put it in its perspective. Mr. Roe agreed
it causes Council trouble.
3 Council Special Meeting & Workshop
June 6, 1989
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Councilman Fish had distributed a scoring matrix and asked that Council look at
it to use for weeding through the resumes to have the same criteria. Council-
woman Benn i ngton agreed it's a good idea. She quest i oned the III arge City
experience". Councilman Fish explained that almost everyone will have experience
in small cities but some may have worked in large cities as an Assistant and then
went to a smaller city as the Manager. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out there
are two basic aspects, one is subjective and one is objective, and these are
excellent points for objective. He noted that subjective aspects are the
individual's demeanor. Councilman Fish stated this is just for resumes and he'll
devise another sheet for the interviews.
Councilwoman Bennington stated that with the City Manger profile they wanted
someone with 5 years minimum experience, experience in Florida, and with
experience in CIP. She said she found some problems with that in some of them
with the CIP experience. She added that 1 iving in the City 1 imits wi 11 be
required. Council members agreed. Councilwoman Bennington said she didn't want
someone retired and wanting to get back in the position.
Councilman Fish stated they should have BFOQ. Councilman Hatfield asked what
they're considering intangibles. Councilman Fish replied it's a gut feeling.
Councilman Hatfield asked if it would be to their advantage to have someone going
from a large city to a small city. Mayor Mitchum replied they'd have to look
at the total resume, not just the population of the city, but overall experience.
Councilman Hatfield questioned why someone would want to regress. Councilwoman
Bennington replied it's due to pressure. Mayor Mitchum stated that one of
Edgewater's good points is the CIP program and it will be a great spot on
someone's resume plus it will be a challenge.
Councilman Hatfield apologized for expressing his concerns last week that they
wouldn't have enough applicants. Mayor Mitchum stated he'd called Ray Sittig
at Florida League of Cities who told him Edgewater isn't viewed in a bad light
and that some of the people that have applied have talked with him about
Edgewater. He added that he was told there's nothing unique about going through
a couple of City Managers in the interim. Councilman Fish stated that large city
experience was put there because he was concerned someone was a City Manager with
the same population and this would be a large jump.
Councilman Hatfield stated he'd like to look at someone with capabilities of
being here at least 10 years.
Frank Roe asked if theylre afraid of getting someone over-qualified. Council-
woman Bennington replied no. Mr. Roe stated that if it's someone with a city
4 or 5 times our size, helll still be a better man than our present situation
and if he lasts 2 years, they still had his experience during that time.
Councilman Hatfield noted that with the different numbers of employees, the City
Manager would have different things done for him or that held have to do himself.
Councilman Fish pointed out these people are professionals and know that when
they come a small city they'll have to work more. Mayor Mitchum agreed it's
different in the chain of command with larger cities but he'll have to fit into
the size of our city.
Councilman Hatfield stated he wants to look at someone who has seen the type of
growth they'll be looking at in the next 10 to 20 years and has dealt with it
somewhere else. Councilman Fish pointed out that's another reason for wanting
someone with Florida experience. Councilman Hatfield noted that the laws have
changed so much just since they've been on Council.
Mayor Mitchum called a recess at 8:02 p.m. He called the workshop back to order
at 8:05 p.m.
Councilwoman Bennington suggested they not pay for anyone to come for interview.
City Attorney Alvarez pointed out that if they're interested in the job, they'll
come. Councilman Fish noted a lot of private industries don I t pay. Mayor
Mitchum noted part of the negotiations are paying for moving. Councilwoman
Bennington suggested when they decide on a first choice and hire him and he gives
notice, that during the notice Councilman Fish could do a background check with
ca 11 i ng a 11 the Counc il members and check i ng wi th his ne i ghbors, and not
necessarily have to go there, but making calls, then if anything comes up they'll
ask the candidate to explain it if he still wants the job. Mayor Mitchum agreed.
4 Council Special Meeting & Workshop
June 6, 1989
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Mayor Mitchum stated he doesn't think they need to require probation because with
the last probation the only difference between probation and permanent was one
month's severance pay and the person will serve at the will of Council. City
Attorney Alvarez noted that under probation they haven't acquired the vested
person rights and they can be let go for any reason, or no reason with no
explanation or justification. Mayor Mitchum said he doesn't want the word
probation to scare someone and if there's a big lie involved in someone getting
hired, the City shouldn't be bound to pay for someone lying and it could be a
part of the contract. City Attorney Alvarez agreed. Councilwoman Bennington
pointed out that's why they do the background check before hiring. City Attorney
Alvarez sa i d the Counc i 1 has to dec i de how long they want to observe the
performance and give him and them the opportunity to walk away from it. Don
BenninQton asked if they could put something in the contract that it could be
made null and void. Mayor Mitchum agreed. City Attorney Alvarez said Council
can reserve the right to say good-bye for no reason within 3 or 6 months and that
will eliminate the rights helll acquire by court decision to receive written
notice and hearings, etc. He pointed out it has to be done in the contract.
Councilwoman Bennington stated that when Mr. McCool was hired in Cocoa Beach they
had a condition of a background check and the City Manager starts with a clean
slate and everyone knows everyone is up front. Mayor Mitchum agreed that should
come right after the selection. City Attorney Alvarez stated they'll want him
to sign a release authorizing the City officials or designee of Council to
conduct whatever it is. He added it's really a professional performance profile.
Councilman Hatfield moved they go back to the special meeting. Frank Roe asked
that they pick more than one so they'll have someone in reserve if something
comes up. Councilman Fish seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
Acting City Manager Wadsworth read Councilman Gold's selections: George McMahon;
Donald Lusk; Dennis Sparks; Robert Ehrhart, Jr.; Albert Pierce; and Frank
Hersman. Councilman Hatfield read his selections: George McMahon; Elly Johnson;
Roman Yoder; Louise Miller; and Max Royle. Councilwoman Bennington read her
selections: Max Royle, George McMahon; Elly Johnson; Donald Lusk; and Louise
Miller. Councilman Fish read his selections: Elly Johnson; George McMahon;
Donald Lusk; and Louise Miller. Mayor Mitchum read his selections: Richard
Clark; Roman Yoder; George McMahon; Donald Lusk; and Elly Johnson. The count
was tallied up with 5 votes for George McMahon; 4 for Elly Jonnson and Donald
Lusk; 3 for Louise Miller; and 2 for Roman Yoder and Max Royle. Mayor Mitchum
stated that Max Royle is in Seward, Alaska and won't be back until the end of
July, but he has been in Florida. There was discussion about whether they'd want
to wait until his return due to lack of availability. It was decided to go with
just the four.
Councilwoman Bennington moved they go with the first four: George McMahon; Elly
Johnson; Louise Miller; and Donald Lusk. Councilman Fish seconded the motion.
The scoring matrix was briefly discussed. Councilwoman Bennington included in
her mot i on that the Act i ng City Clerk contact these peop 1 e and set up the
interviews for next week. Mrs. Wadsworth agreed she'd set it up as soon as
possible. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
Frank Roe asked if Dennis Kelly had applied. Mayor Mitchum replied no. Mr.
Roe commented that's too bad.
There was discussion regarding available dates and times and if more than one
interview would be held per evening. It was agreed there'd be a second interview
if the final selection was close and that they wouldn't pay expenses for the
interviews.
Councilman Fish stated he had guidelines of questions they can't ask. He
distributed copies to Council.
Councilman Hatfield moved to adjourn. Councilman Fish seconded the motion.
Meeting was adjourned at 8:37 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
5 Council Special Meeting & Workshop
June 6, 1989
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MAYOR
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EXCUSED
COUNCIL AN - ZONE THREE
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6 Council Special Meeting & Workshop
June 6, 1989