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11-05-2001 - Regular ~ ~ , CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 5, 2001 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Donald Schmidt Councilman James Brown Councilman Dennis Vincenzi councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter city Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Legal Assistant Robin Matusick Present Present Present Excused Present Present Present Present INVOCATION. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. Mayor Schmidt asked everyone to keep Councilwoman Rhodes' daughter in their thoughts and prayers. She has been sick for a little while now and they are still trying to pinpoint what it is. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Reqular Meetinq of September 24. 2001 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the september 24, 2001 minutes, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Reqular Meetinq of October 1. 2001 councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the October 1, 2001 minutes, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAKATIONS/PLAOUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS A. Mayor proclaiminq December 8. 2001 as ~Shine America Day' in remembrance of the September 11th attacks on the united States Mayor Schmidt read a proclamation declaring December 8th as Shine America Day. David Devilbiss, Edgewater Public School, spoke about the candle kits that are available for $5. They are available starting Wednesday, November 7th at Loveland Groves in Edgewater and Oceans Seafood in New Smyrna Beach. The kids will start to pre- sell them also on Wednesday. CITIZEN COMMENTS Mayor Schmidt asked that anyone that wanted to speak on an agenda item to wait for that item on the agenda. There were no citizen comments at this time. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. 'W' ...., Mayor Schmidt wished the Council a Happy 2nd Year Anniversary. He feels they have made great strides over the last couple of years. There is a Special Meeting on Wednesday to declare the results of the election tomorrow. Councilman Brown stated we still need people to help with the YMCA. The pool is getting closer and closer to being started. He feels it will be a great addition to the City to have a public pool to use. councilwoman Lichter stated city Historian JoAnne Sikes contacted her with a rather novel idea. There are certain businesses in this city that have been in existence over 25 years such as Tropical Blossom Honey, Loveland Groves and American Hardware. She thought it would be a nice follow through to the Economic Expo they had if they had some type of recognition of these businesses. She suggested mentioning this to the Economic Development Board to follow through on. councilwoman Lichter stated since the County sent up their Manatees Plan, the County has sent back several criticisms of it. The County doesn't think it is tight enough or explicit enough. The County council has asked the Indian River Task Force to try to form a draft and submit ideas to them that might supplement or help improve the Manatees Plan. Tomorrow the Sub-committee will be submitting it to Halifax Indian River and they in turn will pass it on. If it is not accepted by the County and Federal Government there will be a stoppage of all new marina siting. councilwoman Lichter stated she has noticed an increase in phone calls in the last 48 hours. She spoke about a call she received regarding brush on Riverside Drive that is rather old. councilwoman Lichter spoke about a call she received regarding the old hospital on US #1 that is in disrepair. This person claims there seem to be a vagrance mulling around or living near by. Councilwoman Lichter stated she explained to the people with the concerns about the water on Riverside Drive when it rains that Terry Wadsworth is working on it and trying to work with st. John's to get some grants. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about people wanting a status report when they have a problem. councilwoman Lichter asked what the status is on the hospital. City Manager Hooper stated the hospital has been abandoned. He has had several conversations with Building Official Dennis Fischer. It is to the point when it needs to come back to see if Council is interested in condemning it. It is in a terrible state of repair and probably would cost more to fix to be occupied than the value"of the building. The next step would be to do a walk threw. On US 1, what used to be the ship restaurant and some others are about in that same state of repair. city Manager Hooper spoke about the trash on Riverside Drive. The clam truck that is used to pick up larger piles is broke down and they just received a new clam truck. Those piles should be picked up in the next few days. They have spent some overtime getting the smaller piles. City Manager Hooper stated he spoke to Jill Landreville who is in charge of Code Enforcement regarding better reporting and better feedback. They are down to one staff person and are in the process of hiring the second person. Page -2- council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ., """'" Mayor Schmidt asked who owns the old hospital. city Manager Hooper said he doesn't off the top of his head but Mr. Fischer does. Mayor Schmidt spoke about work that was done on the hospital a few years ago. He thought it was going to be reopened. City Manager Hooper thinks the history is a time or two when previous Councils have gotten close to saying it needed to be fixed or torn down and they will make promises and move to get it somewhat better and then it stops and then it goes into a further state of disrepair and it does change hands. Councilwoman Lichter feels more than the aesthetics, safety is the issue. Mayor Schmidt asked if there is anyway to put other people out there to do Code Enforcement until another officer is hired. City Manager Hooper stated it has been advertised and interviews start this week so it will be very quick. He spoke about cross training that is occurring with the Animal Control Officers that are doing some Code Enforcement. This will give a total of four individuals. City Manager Hooper informed the Council they would have, on their next week's agenda, the new Code Enforcement Chapter in the Land Development Code. Councilwoman Lichter stated she has been called by the Fishing Club and they were upset over the lack of the council giving a donation this year. She asked if they would be allowed to bring it up during citizen Comments since it isn't on the agenda. Mayor Schmidt suggested they hold it until the second set of citizen Comments and then they can talk about it. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS A. 1st Readinq. Jim Scott and Ed Grant. contract purchasers and authorized aqents for Marqaret Salvioli. requestinq a chanqe in zoninq classification from R-4 (Multi-Familv Residential) to RPUD (Residential Planned unit Development) for 9.95+ acres located on the south side of Roberts Road. east of Meadow Lake Subdivision and approval of associated zoning Aqreement City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He asked Darren Lear to come up and highlight the history of the property and where we are today. Darren Lear, Planning Department, made a staff presentation regarding this property. Staff recommends approval for the rezoning. city Manager Hooper explained the reason for the change in zoning and the Zoning Agreement. What will occur next if this is approved is it goes back through the Planning & zoning Board for preliminary plan approval and come back through Council as final plat approval as well as preliminary plat approval. Councilwoman Lichter asked what is in between the eastern part of this project and US #1. Mr. Lear explained to the southeast, at the bend of the one lane, there is The Furniture Gallery and then it is vacant. councilwoman Lichter asked what that is zoned. Mr. Lear informed her it is zoned B-3. councilwoman Lichter asked if B-3 acts as a buffer next to this. Mr. Lear stated if someone was to develop in the B-3 then there would be a buffer requirement to buffer between the homes and the development at that time. Page -3- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ~ Councilman Vincenzi asked how much of a buffer is required. Mr. Lear stated he would have to check the Land Development Code because it has changed since they amended Article V. It depends on what the use is going to be and what the use is to the adjoining property. Councilwoman Lichter stated but no doubt they will put some type of visual buffer to the side. Mr. Lear stated he isn't sure if they currently had to have any plans for that. Councilwoman Lichter stated that will come along, we aren't at that point yet. City Manager Hooper stated that is correct. The Council will see that at the time of coming back. He further commented on the buffer issue. To the west, we have had three or four folks come in and talk about purchasing that property and wanting to continue with single family. Mr. Lear informed the Council the developer was there and had examples of homes that they are talking about building. Ed Grant, 873 Hewitt Drive, Port Orange, stated he is working with Mr. Caputo to get the subdivision done. They would like to see the Council approve the 75 foot lots as well as the Subdivision Agreement. Councilman Brown stated he is glad they moved it to 75 foot lots. He was not thrilled with the 50 foot lots. Dominic Caputo, 624 3rd Ave, New Smyrna Beach, informed Council they have copies in their packets of some examples of what they are going to be building in that area. Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2001-0-73 into the record. Mayor Schmidt spoke about the traffic on Roberts Road. He mentioned there being limited access going east and west for everyone in Florida Shores. city Manager Hooper stated the planning for that needs to be taken into consideration and our Comp Plan identifies that is one of the future roads to look at for widening and for enhancements. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Pat Card, 3019 willow Oak Drive, stated he was probably the most vehement opponent at the Board meeting in regard to this when the developer came in with almost 40 homes and 50 foot lots. He is pleased to see that in this City when you make public comment, the people listen. The Board listened and the developer listened and he is pleased to see that they have expanded it to 75 feet and 115 feet which is the minimum. That makes it consistent with the neighborhood. He feels they need to keep in mind there is a school very close. He spoke about the additional traffic that will be generated and it being tough for people to come in and out of there with little children running around. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, asked where the entranceway is compared to going into publix and from Meadow Lake. Mr. Grant estimated it looks like it is probably a hundred feet or more north of Meadow Lake. City Manager Hooper stated it is probably between 100 an 150 feet but if Mr. visconti wanted to come in and look at the plat he is certainly welcome to do that. He thanked Mr. Grant and Mr. Scott for changing the lots to 75 feet. Councilwoman Lichter asked how wide the lots are in Meadow Lake. Mr. visconti stated they are 80 feet and the all the depths change in the different sizes. Mr. Card stated in Meadow Lake the density is approximately 2 3/4 houses per acre. This will be about 4 houses per acre. At 38 houses, it was almost five houses per acre and that is another reason they had a great deal of concern about it. Page -4- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ..... ....., city Manager Hooper stated what is being proposed is 2.8 units per acre. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. councilman Brown moved to approve Ord 2001-0-73, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. B. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-13. Amendinq the Official Future Land Use Map to include 8.26 acres of propertv as Low Density Residential. Commercial with Conservation Overlay to reflect annexation for the property located on the north and south side of Palm Breeze Drive between US1 and the Indian River (from June 18. 2001) city Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding Item 6B through Item 6J. City Manager Hooper went over the process they would follow. city Clerk Wadsworth played a recording of the reading of Ordinance 2001-0-13, 2001-0-14, 2001-0-15, 2001-0-16, 2001-0-19, 2001-0-22, 2001-0-24, 2001-0-26, and 2001-0-31 into the record. city Manager Hooper informed Council there is 24 total plan amendments that we have made the transmittal to. The comments are back on these nine ordinances. They are very small and scattered, mostly surrounding the area along SR 442 and a couple on the east side of US #1. These have been annexed for a number of years and should have been amended years past. This process is probably another couple of meetings. They have all the comments back and once they get through this calendar year, they won't face anything like 25 plan amendments again in the future. There was a discussion regarding the surrounding property owners being notified and these property owners receiving City services over the past ten years. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-13, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. C. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No 2001-0-14. Amendinq the Future Land Use Map to include .76 acres of property as Commercial to reflect annexation for property located on the west side of US 1. west of 28th Street (from June 18. 2001) Councilman vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-14, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Mike visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated at one time they were talking about extending 28th street to US #1. Is this in the same area he is thinking about. city Manager Hooper informed him yes. This would neither hurt it or help it. Mr. visconti expressed concern if commercial use is put in along US #1 wihtout an artery going through 28th Street, 28tli Street will never go to US #1. city Manager Hooper stated a decision has not been made that that is what is best to move the traffic through. They are having traffic work done to determine whether that is the best answer. Mr. Visconti stated that would be the best from Meadow Lake. Page -5- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ..,. ...., D. 2nd Reading. Ord. No. 2001-0-15. Amendinq the Future Land Use Man to include 2.56 acres of nroperty as Low Density Residential with Conservation Overlay to reflect annexation of nronerty located at 2913 and 2915 SR 442 (from June 18. 2001) Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-15, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. E. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-16. Amendinq the Future Land use Man to include 7.85 acres of nronertv as Low Density Transition with Conservation Overlay to reflect annexation of nronerty located on the northwest corner of Hide Away Lane and SR 442 (from June 18. 2001) Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-16, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. F. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-19. Amendinq the Future Land Use Man to include 1.55 acres of nronerty as Low Density Residential to reflect annexation of nronerty located on the southwest corner of pine Dale and SR 442 (from June 18. 2001) Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-19, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. G. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-22. Amendinq the Future Land Use Ma~ to include 10.00 acres of nronerty as Low Density Transition with Conservation Overlay to reflect annexation of nronerty located on the northwest corner of Oak Trail. western most end (from June 18. 2001) Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-22, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. H. 2nd Readinq, Ord. No. 2001-0-24. Amendinq the Future Land Use Man to include 4.69 acres of nroperty as Commercial to reflect annexation of nroperty located at 3220 SR 442 (from June 18. 2001) Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-24, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. I. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-26. Amendinq the Future Land Use Man to include .70 acres of pronerty as Commercial to reflect annexation of nroperty located at 3336 SR 442 (from June 18. 2001) Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-26, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. J. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-31, Amending the Future Land Use Map to include 10.00 acres of property as Commercial to reflect annexation of property located west of Old Mission Road. east of Cow Creek Road (from June 18. 2001) Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-31, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. K. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-61. Owner Inez J. Hooks. ~uestinq annexation of 1.14+ acres located south and east of 35t street. Washinqton Park Subdivision City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding Item 6J through Item 6U. Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2001-0-61 through Ord. 2001-0- 71 into the record. Page -6- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ,., ....., Councilwoman Lichter spoke about a piece of property that is in the County that is physically in the City presenting problems due to not knowing whose jurisdiction it is when things happen. City Manager Hooper stated there are five or six properties larger than ten acres that are in the City that with our efforts with the County on a joint planning area agreement are reducing or eliminating the enclaves. He further spoke about the County seeking this term in the legislation a special act that would allow them and a city to come to an agreement over having those annexed to provide service. Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. Pat Card, 3019 willow Oak Drive, stated there are two streets which abut the area that will become Edgewater Lakes. Those two streets dump to 36th Street. 36th Street eventually dumps to willow Oak. If those streets were ever extended into the Lake, suddenly both 36th Street and willow Oak would be collectors for all of that to SR 442. He believes the recommendation from the Board was that this be approved with the understanding that those two streets were never extended into Edgewater Lakes. City Manager Hooper explained the buffer that is around Florida Shores. He further commented on the process in order to do something to get rid of that. Councilwoman Lichter asked if 35th or 36th Street goes into Volco Road as another exit. City Manager Hooper stated there is a dirt road that ends at 35th Street and that will be improved when Edgewater Lakes comes in. Mayor Schmidt asked if they have had some talks with the County about Volco Road. City Manager Hooper explained they have had talks and have had some action. Councilwoman Lichter questioned about 35th and 36th Street being different on the Edgewater map. City Manager Hooper stated Fire Chief Barlow solved the problem the following day after the last meeting. Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-61, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. L. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-62. Trustee Harvev P. Amster requestinq annexation of .90+ acres located south of 35th Street and west of Oranqe Tree Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-62, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. M. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-63. Owners Edmund and Irene Amara and Charles Hanna. Jr. requestinq annexation of 3.64+ acres located south of 35th Street and west of Oranqe Tree Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-63, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. N. 2nd Reading. Ord. No. 2001-0-64. Owners Jerome and Debra L. Thomas requestinq annexation of 10.56+ acres located south of 35th Street and west of Needle Palm Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-64, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Page -7- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ..." ....., O. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-65. Owners James L. and Shelly M. Crowell requestinq annexation of 5.0+ acres located south of 35th street and west of Needle Palm Drive. Washington Park Subdivision Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-65, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. P. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-66. Owner Ton~ Pawlak requestinq annexation of 1.28+ acres located south of 35t Street and east of Travelers Palm Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-66, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. Q. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-67. Owners and Co-Trustees Morris M. and Frances Wyman requestinq annexation of 4.01+ acres located east of intersection of 36th Street and Travelers Palm Drive. Washington Park Subdivision Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-67, second by Councilman vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. R. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-68. Authorized aqent Elias Pachter (Rose Pachter Folk Owner) requesting annexation of .28+ acres located south of 35th Street. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-68, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. S. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-69. Owner Robert S. Rothman requestinq annexation of .60+ acres located south of 35th Street and east of Queen Palm Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-69, second by Councilman vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. T. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-70. Owner Samuel Acebal requestinq annexation of 3.15+ acres located south of 35th Street and east of Travelers Palm Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-70, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. U. 2nd Readinq. Ord No. 2001-0-71. Owners Jack H. and Mildred Mishkin requestinq annexation of 1.43+ acres located east of 35th Street and Umbrella Tree Drive. Washinqton Park Subdivision Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-71, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. V. 2nd Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-72. Owners John Merrick. Willie Wood. Barbara Constable and Rosi Fortna requestinq annexation of 7.0+ acres located west of US1 and south of East Wind Subdivision (lots 1-17 inclusive. Thomas Subdivision in Murrav Grant) City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2001-0-72 into the record. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilman Brown moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-72, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-0. W. 1st Readinq. Ord. No. 2001-0-74. Amendinq Article IX (Application Procedures) of the Land Development Code Page -8- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 . ..,., City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2001-0-74 into the record. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Schmidt opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter asked if this has been gone over by the outfit they hired to simplify. City Manager Hooper stated it was drafted originally by that group and there has been many eyes on it such as himself, the City Attorney and back through another staff review. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2001-0-74, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion CARRIED 4-0. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. CONSENT AGENDA A. Animal Control Board Appointment - Councilman Vincenzi to consider Board's recommendation to reappoint Debrah Brazzell for another two year term B. Firefiqhters' Pension Plan Board Appointment - recommending appointinq Ron Hayward and reappointinq Jim Jollie to the Board (both elected bv fellow firefiqhters) Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the Consent Agenda, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 4-0. OTHER BUSINESS A. Special Activities Permit - for discussion City Manager Hooper presented the history of the way special Activities Permits were handled. He briefly spoke about the requirements and criteria involved with issuing a special Activity Permit. City Manager Hooper spoke about receiving complaints regarding the No Name Saloon. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the B-3 zone allows them to have music inside and out if it's not a larger than normal function. She asked if they have any qualifying things about that music. City Manager Hooper informed her not really, ours is a nuisance driven ordinance. Our Police and Code Enforcement will go to them and tell them we are receiving complaints and to turn the noise down and that has been how it has worked. The B-3 zoning allows night clubs and entertainment. Does it say you are allowed outside bands? No, it doesn't say you are or you're not. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned Rich's Place being in a B-3 zone and all of them being allowed music in and out. City Manager Hooper stated it just says it can't create a nuisance. Councilman Vincenzi feels the problem with the Code is it doesn't say they can or can't do that. They are still bound by codes that say they can't create a public nuisance or disturb the neighborhood. He feels they have to find out what the process is in issuing these permits and if they are in compliance with the current zoning. If they are and there is nothing we can do about it, then we have to change the zoning somehow. He doesn't see how a respectable business can continue to operate and disturb the neighborhood. He feels they need to find a way to solve the problem and one of the ways is to make the Code more specific and more exact. Page -9- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ...." Councilwoman Lichter stated she got a complaint and it wasn't on a special permit night so she went over either Friday or Saturday night and left the windows of her car open and when you go down Boston Road, there is no question it is loud and you hear it. This was at 9:30 p.m. There is no hours also when you have a Special Permit, there is a curve on hours. If it just comes automatically with the establishment there is no curve on hour$. She didn't know they had a permit to have music outside all the time. They need to look into this. There are going to be more places, not just the one. Councilman Vincenzi stated that is why they have to act on it. Councilman Brown agreed and feels they need to do some serious looking at these Special Activity Permits and codes. Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, spoke about why she has been looking into this. She spoke about the No Name Saloon no longer having to obtain permission from the City Council to have outside bands. In the past that was always considered a special activity and therefore not permitted under their license without permission from the Council for each specific event. Now until the first of October of this year, nobody could find any definition that outside bands were permitted. The question isn't bands, it's the fact that the bands are outside. She obtained copies of the No Name Saloon's license history, which she submitted to Council. Mayor Schmidt stated he knows there is one particular business they are talking about but he wants to keep this as general as possible because he feels the overall item Special Activity Permits is what they want to take care of and he knows with Rich's Place opening up there is going to be more. He asked to get copies of the language in New Smyrna, Port Orange and Daytona regarding outside bands or outside activities. city Manager Hooper stated they have those copies. Ms. Hill stated the reason she is using No Name Saloon is because up until now that is the only time they have had the problem. She realizes there is at least one more that is already licensed and opened and they are down the road 1/8 of a mile so you can imagine how nice that is going to be when they both get going on Saturday night. She also heard a rumor that there is going to be another one. She went through the licenses for No Name that she submitted to Council. She spoke about the entertainment license saying outdoor bands permitted. She feels the matter of outdoor bands has been taken out of the Council's hands and enables the No Name Saloon or anybody else who is so licensed to answer to no one. They are the elected officials who answer to the people. She asked how the No Name Saloon went from a neighborhood bar and package store to a venue for outside concerts anytime they please. Even outside dining needs a special permit in most cities. She feels this should have been brought before the Council and it wasn't. Anything that impacts the City in a negative way should be the Council's business. Ms. Hill stated in this instance, this is impacting many people. She feels anyone can put up with it for a week but they can't put up with it every Friday and Saturday night or any other time they decide they want to do it because it affects the way they live. Councilwoman Lichter stated she was here the first time that vote came about and she thought the interpretation of B-3 zoning was different because she remembers that outside music was going to be for the Special Permit. It was not her interpretation that it could go on outside at will and just have a Special Permit when there is a big event. They even said they didn't want it to become an automatic thing. Page -10- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ...", Councilman Vincenzi stated they are supposed to be talking about Special Activity Permits but they are talking about occupational licenses also. He feels the problem with the No Name Saloon is that, or with someone, he doesn't know if it is them or the clerk that processed the application, they are inserting comments that don't necessarily give them the right to do things but it sure looks like it gives them the right to do things and that shouldn't be. Whoever is processing the application should not insert any comments that would give anyone trying to read or interpret their license the idea that they have special rights and they don't. Councilwoman Lichter feels they need a clarification or shut off of can music go on all the time outside. That has to be clarified. Councilman Vincenzi feels there are a number of problems they are going to have to tackle. Councilwoman Lichter feels the workshop will give them that chance. Councilman vincenzi feels the noise is one. The zoning is fine but it has to be modified. Councilman Brown feels they should still have control over a Special Activity Permit for an outside band. Ray Anderson, 1905 S. Riverside Drive, stated he is pleased to hear they are moving in the direction of some control. He feels what has happened is past Councils have been in favor of growth and development. The down side of that is that you are sometimes low on the busy side and some of these control items have gotten out of hand. He feels there is a big gray area. He feels they need to establish some sort of control with a noise ordinance. There are other people in the town, other than himself, who are not happy with this kind of amplified noise, which is the problem. It gets to the point where they deliberately and blatantly defy the law because there is no law. He feels a police officer shouldn't have to go down and make a decision as far as what the law is. Their job is to enforce the law. Mr. Anderson spoke about going before the Council in 1994 for a few changes in developing and building a couple of houses. He spoke about research that he did. He was there long before the noise started and is looking at his rights. He feels they need to look at the noise level very closely and establish some kind of control. Mayor Schmidt asked if they have a date on the workshop yet. City Manager Hooper stated it would be their second meeting in December. He is looking at 6 p.m. Mayor Schmidt doesn't think that is going to be enough time. Councilwoman Lichter suggested having it a different night than a regular meeting. After some discussion, the Council agreed on December 4th at 6 p.m. to hold the workshop. city Manager Hooper explained he doesn't want anyone to think the rules have really changed. What is occurring is they have a B-3 zoning that as they have identified the Land Development Code and refined, it says what is permitted and not permitted. The City Clerk for a number of years has handled the occupational license. Planning has done the same thing lately looking at it so the roles haven't changed. The application did change. He thinks in the case they are talking about they came in and asked for the ability to have that. The occupational license itself complied with when you read through the technicality of the zoning. Nothing was done to circumvent or take any powers away. The rules are clear. They have refined them and when you refine them sometimes things that you think you are leaving the same have turned into now there is no black and white to it. Page -11- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ...." City Manager Hooper thinks they need to bring Council the other cities along this area from us to Daytona and look at it. It is going to take some work to come up with what is reasonable. He doesn't think they are going to make everyone happy. What they want to do is a community standard. Councilwoman Lichter stated when she is talking about the particular zone, that is the core of the problem. If outside music is allowed by that, they sure didn't know it before. If they refined it to have that emerge that is a problem. If it abuts a residential area, there has got to be a buffer that takes care of the problem. city Manager Hooper feels she is exactly on target but the problem is it is zoned and was a long time ago and there is no buffer. They are trying to create by a zoning category that is permissive into an area that is probably improperly zoned. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the zoning can be changed. City Manager Hooper informed her it gets tricky after a building is there just to change it. It has property rights. Councilman Brown asked if the other Councils in Daytona and Port Orange address this and issue a special Permit or is it done through their permitting people. City Manager Hooper stated it is administratively done. Even when he reads the list of things that say if it were in front of Council, noise isn't one. If that is what they want to worry about, they have to add noise to it. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about something being grandfathered in when it is non-conforming and you change. In essence this is kind of backwards. The no outside music was the non-conforming conception that there not be music. City Manager Hooper explained it never was there as an issue to be dealt with. Mayor Schmidt asked for a rough outline of the workshop at the next meeting and do it as a discussion item so they can talk about how to approach the workshop. He knows there will probably be a lot of public and he feels at the workshop it is going to be limited at that point because he feels they need to discuss things. Roger Hammond, 2104 S. Riverside Drive, stated even when the u.S. Government puts up a road by a development, they squish the noise. If this fellow wants to make that noise, let him contain it. He doesn't think anyone has the right to force their noise over on him. Councilman Brown asked if it would be possible to put up a mesh. Councilman Vincenzi doesn't feel barriers are going to do it. He feels they need to talk about limits. Bob Labiak, 2005 S. Riverside Drive, stated he has some apartments there and a business that has been there since 1957 and he is losing retirees because it is too noisy. He feels it is not necessarily just the band. It is the bass that is turned up, the pudding wrestling and the cheers, it is the burnout pits that are in back. He questioned if they are licensed for a burnout pit for motorcycles. He spoke about vandalism that occurred during the last entertainment week over there. When they called the Police they couldn't come out because they were too busy. They never did show up. A new house being vandalized. They caught the little guys and it has all been taken care of the old fashioned way. The lady whose family built in 1946 the No Name as a restaurant and sandwich shop had to sound proof her home. He spoke about children going to bed before ten o'clock. Page -12- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ,.,. ..., Councilwoman Lichter asked if they could put the Fishing Club on an agenda to look at. Mayor Schmidt stated if they want to be put on the agenda they should do an agenda request. Mr. Labiak stated he was a member of that club and they hold that event next door to him. They do clean the river and are responsible people and he feels it is a worthy item. OFFICER REPORTS City Clerk Wadsworth urged everyone to vote tomorrow. She handed out some redistricting maps and they need to be done as the census is done. Staff has taken the map and did the redistricting. On the map it points out the population for each district and it is pretty even. She wants the Council to look at this map and get their feelings so they can bring it back with the ordinance. City Manager Hooper stated he thinks they are looking to do that at their December meeting. They have through the month of January to make those modifications. He suggested Council look them over and get with either himself, City Clerk Wadsworth or Mr. Lear in the Planning Department who did the numbers and math that says in what district would balance it if they have any questions. The objective is to wind up with equal voter representation in each of the four districts. If Council is okay with it, he would like to place that on an ordinance and adopt it through the month of December. Legal Assistant Matusick had nothing at this time. city Manager Hooper spoke about the FIND contract. It has gone through FIND's board of directors, who voted on October 27th for the contract. He will be placing this on an upcoming agenda to talk more in depth. He spoke about an article in the News Journal about FIND. We are probably around five months from total completion of the construction. City Manager Hooper asked if they had any objection to placing a container in the front of City Hall for donations to help pay for services for a boy that needed a heart transplant. The Council had no objection. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated he is very disappointed regarding what happened to our medians. They are spending thousands of dollars to beautify the medians and after the paving was done along US #1, whoever the contractor was or DOT, they really made a mess of our medians. He feels the City was caught napping. This was a perfect opportunity for us to get together with DOT and re-sod all of the medians instead of sOdding just the edges of them. He asked if anything is being done to rectify this. city Manager Hooper stated they have talked to DOT. They didn't give us notice of what they were doing. They described it as resurfacing. They have had some conversation of can we pay the difference to get them re-sodded and their answer was maybe but they are using the cheapest sod you can do. We are continuing with our median upgrades. There are two scheduled to start next month. Mayor Schmidt stated he will see our DOT liaison at the next MPO meeting and will bring it up to him of our disappointment with that and he will have a report at the first meeting in December. Mr. Visconti stated he has made a video of it if Mayor Schmidt would like it to show DOT before and after. Councilwoman Lichter feels the medians look awful. Page -13- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ~ George Ann Keller, 3039 Unity Tree Drive, stated back on April 2nd she spoke about the retention pond at Whistle stop Park that is near the parking lot where the ballfields are that the City helped clear out at the request of the people from Meadow Lake. She feels now it is an eyesore. The water has turned brown and weeds have grown up in it. She feels it is dangerous for the children in the area. She feels it needs to be looked into and something needs to be done soon to prevent an accident from happening. City Manager Hooper stated it is total private property. They have through Code Enforcement drafted a letter to go to them notifying them it doesn't meet the current conditions and it doesn't meet the current conditions of the Water Management District permit that was issued to keep that pond so it functioned properly. Mayor Schmidt asked about the border between the park, the City property and Meadow Lake, is there a possibility of a chain link fence type. City Manager Hooper stated he thinks that is what Mr. Corder was looking into and agreed to find out for sure. Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, stated back when the sewer projects and drainage he raised the issue once about we have a lot of canals that are deep and steep and worrying about kids and we have been lucky that it hasn't happened yet. Some of those canals are so deep if a kid does fall in one at night even if the water is low, there is a good chance he is going to get hurt and won't be able to stand up and could drowned in a foot of water or two. He stated he knows there isn't an easy solution to that. Mr. Jenkins stated the pond next to his house, at the time they put a pipe in and covered one part of the canal and that was even worse because if somebody came walking through there at night and walked off the end of the pipe and the bank they were going to leave straight down and he got the guy to taper it back some so at least if a kid fell in the water he could climb his way out. He suggested putting reflector posts along there in certain places so people realize there is something there it might help. Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, spoke about an agreement with the County on the Old Pre-Stressed Concrete Plant. She read in the paper the County has renigged on that because the Boston Whaler company went down there with an antirage and said they didn't think that they could live with residential next to them because eventually they would complain about the noise from Boston Whaler. The reason the County ended up with that was because Pre-Stressed Concrete was there first. Hacienda came in and then a few people in there started complaining about the dirt and the noise. The end of that was that they were forced right out of business and the County forced them to do all these things and spend all this money, went bankrupt and in the end the County had to buy it. We aren't just the City, we are the County too and that is $3 million of our money own the tubes because what they have now is a real white elephant. They don't want residential there. What manufacturing plant do you think is going to come in there because Hacienda is going to give them a fit too and they are going to be coming in after the fact. She thinks they should try and get a group together to go down there and protest it. She thinks they should go through with that sale. Ms. Hill stated City Manager Hooper brought up a very good point in the newspaper. He said that under the agreement with the developer that they would agree that they would not make any demands on the boat company. She doesn't know why that wouldn't hold up because everything would have been established. She feels it doesn't look right to her. Page -14- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001 ~ ....., Ms. Hill feels two or three years down the road nothing is going to be done with that property and Boston Whaler is going to come over and say they want to take it off their hands and we'll put a buffer in over here if you want to give us the rest of the land. She doesn't like the way the County Council spends our money and she isn't about to go down there alone. If anyone wants to go to give them a fit she is willing to go. Ms. Hill stated she appreciates with the Council is trying to do and she doesn't think it was anybody's fault. She thinks it is just something that people thinking things or what they're not about the license issue. She feels they really do need to do something about. Mr. visconti asked if they were talking about the retention pond is what was cleaned up a while back. Councilwoman Lichter stated the City did as a starter. Mr. visconti asked if it could be filled. City Manager Hooper stated that is where Meadow Lake's drainage goes. Mr. visconti stated the big retention pond where the drainage actually goes is right behind his house. City Manager Hooper stated there are two. Part of his understanding is the Meadow Lake Homeowners Association permitted retention ponds. He said they could get permits and try to do it but the City could not do it. Mr. visconti asked if Meadow Lake could fill that in. City Manager Hooper stated they would have to get an engineer and see if they could get a permit to do that. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Brown moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:36 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -15- Council Regular Meeting November 5, 2001