01-07-2002 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 7, 2002
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
City Attorney Scott Cookson
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the
Flag.
Mayor Schmidt wished everyone a Happy New Year.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAOUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS
There were no presentations at this time.
CITIZEN COMMENTS
...
Pat Card, 3019 willow Oak Drive, read a prepared statement with
regard to the noise from the No Name Saloon. He questioned why
the Council is even bothering with this, why they would consider
giving a business any more consideration than they would give a
private citizen and why they would allow any noise level that
could be heard by a Councilman at least ten blocks away. He
feels the Council's responsibility is to decide how many times
and when they would be willing to make it necessary for many
property owners to put up with the garbage that comes through the
air from the Saloon. If Council really feels like they must
allow this business to have outside music, give them two special
events a year, one day during Bike Week and one day during
Biketoberfest for a five-hour time period, ending at 7 p.m., 8
p.m., or 9 p.m. He feels if Council doesn't stop this now, they
will open a Pandora's Box.
Kathy Clausnitzer, 1823 Juniper Drive, spoke about the city being
in dire need of another cell tower in this City. The residents
from 22nd Street to north of Park Avenue have the distinct
disadvantage of having little to no wireless service. She feels
other than a major inconvenience this lack of service poses a
safety issue. She stated we are growing geographically and
questioned why we can't grow to meet the needs of the cell phone
owners. She asked for Council's attention to this problem and
hope it can be solved in the very near future.
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Mayor Schmidt stated that is up to the cellular service
providers. city Manager Hooper stated that is correct. They
approach the City and the city's obligation is to review the
zoning for such a tower. BellSouth has talked to the City about
two locations and are negotiating with us right now at one of our
Water Towers off of Kumquat to add a tower to it. It is really
BellSouth and Cingular who come in and rent or buy. The city
doesn't install towers or have any obligation to install towers.
Ms. Clausnitzer stated when you call them and talk to them they
throw it right back on the city and they say the city didn't
approve their towers.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have ever come to us with a
request. City Manager Hooper stated they have been in with two,
one on u.s. #1 that the City discouraged but they told them they
would work with them to have a second option, which was on top of
an existing water tower. As best he knows, they were going back
to make sure it was the coverage they wanted. He thinks they are
working on it. Councilwoman Lichter suggested they find out what
the status is. City Manager Hooper agreed to find out.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside circle, thanked City Manager Hooper
for the letter of the draft of the Workshop meeting of December
4th. He still believes there should be public input at the
Workshop meetings. He didn't know who made the decision that
there should not be input from the city residents. He asked to
poll the Council on how they feel whether there should be input
or not at tomorrow night's meeting.
Mayor Schmidt asked if they want to do this or wait until City
Council Reports.
councilwoman Lichter stated she didn't think Mr. Capria was aware
they are planning a meeting at Edgewater Landing because of the
dissemination of some e-mail's that weren't quite accurate and
the meeting after tomorrow night will be located in the Landings
for all citizens to attend and there will be plenty of
opportunity for citizen input. But she has her own opinion on
tomorrow night.
Mr. Capria stated he did not know that but he didn't see what
that had to do with the total residents of the City of Edgewater,
not just Edgewater Landing. councilwoman Rhodes stated all the
people in the city can attend the meeting in Edgewater Landing.
It is just being held there. Mr. Capria stated it hasn't been
publicized because he doesn't know anything about it.
councilwoman Rhodes stated they are setting the date tonight for
that meeting.
Mr. capria asked why it has to be at Edgewater Landing, why not
Florida Shores or somewhere else. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
because they had a big enough facility.
Mayor Schmidt asked everyone to answer Mr. Capria's question
regarding whether they want public input tomorrow night or not.
Councilwoman Lichter stated an e-mail has been going around
Edgewater Landing with some very erroneous information in it.
She personally received over 50 calls and thought it wouldn't be
a bad idea, as they have often had the show on the road, that the
Landings has the facilities to hold a meeting that would be open
to the public.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated she needs the opportunity to go over
a draft that she didn't write and talk to her fellow
Councilpersons to try and work it out and see where they stand.
She knows the opposition and she knows some of the pluses but
because they live in a state that has the Sunshine Law ahd
because they don't caucus like the political parties in
Tallahassee caucus, it behooves them to try to talk to each other
and get a feel. She doesn't care if it takes two more workshops
of public input before they come to a conclusion to do something
right.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about revamping the Code of
Ordinances. She spoke about having problems with the section in
the Land Development Code regarding Special Activity Permits and
Noise so they pulled it and they must have the opportunity to
work on it with the other Councilpersons.
Mr. capria is disappointed they are going to have the meeting at
Edgewater Landing and no one knew nothing about it because this
has to be approved by the Board of Directors and no one has said
anything about it until tonight. It still has nothing to do with
the request that he is asking to poll the Council and Mayor on
where they stand with input or no input.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated Councilwoman Lichter just told him
where she stands and she stands right with her. Mayor Schmidt
stated he stands right there too.
Councilman Vincenzi stated as far as the e-mail floating around,
he saw it and didn't see anything wrong with it. As far as
public input, he doesn't mind hearing from the residents.
Councilman Brown feels the Council needs to discuss this and
hammer it out and present it to the public in a formal mode and
then let them talk about it. They are just presenting this to
the Council. There is no decisions being made.
Mr. Capria feels the citizens should be able to talk about it.
City Manager Hooper commented on the normal process of a Work
Session being for the Council. He spoke about the Sunshine Law
not letting the Council speak to each other. They can speak to
him one on one but he can't tell one councilperson what another
Councilperson thinks. That is the chance for Council to come
together on thoughts and give him direction to write something
which he brings back to the Council. He further spoke about
joint Work Sessions with other cities and there being no public
input. He stated Mayor Schmidt requested that we do this
Workshop in the format so the Council could have an opportunity
to talk and it is the full intent of all the Council to take
public input on a draft that there is something for them to
describe and say what they like and don't like. He has drafted
the language in the Noise Ordinance and the Special Activity
Ordinance and sent it to those that have spoken here and
indicated some type of interest.
Councilman Vincenzi stated there are very rarely issues that they
have Workshops on that are as controversial as this. He doesn't
want to hear the same thing thirty or forty times from thirty or
forty different people. He feels limited input would be nice.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Vincenzi spoke about the council
Combat challenge on Saturday. Councilwoman
Councilwoman Rhodes are not participating.
get City Manager Hooper to participate too.
being involved in a
Lichter and
They are trying to
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Council Regular Meeting
January 7, 2002
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated she asked for feedback on the noise
issue and she thanked everyone. She received plenty of feedback.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Wednesday at Noon the Anti-Litter
Committee will meet in the City Hall Conference Room. Pblice
Chief Ignasiak will be the speaker. They are going to try and
talk about enforcement. Enforcement and education are going to
be the angles they are working on this year. She spoke about the
problem on Roberts Road next to Indian River Elementary. She had
one big thing taken away and thought the problem was solved. Now
there are little huts there for various things and when the
school was on vacation they were put behind a fence. There is
total dumping in front of this fence. They are going to have to
have surveillance. These people doing the dumping are going to
have to be punished in some way. We have a very good system in
this city. If you put a mattress in front of your house it does
get picked up. Why they have to put it on the sidewalk by the
school is beyond her. They are also going to talk about another
CleanScene Day but for the minute they have to put some teeth
into whatever ordinance they have or do not have on this subject.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she got a complaint about some of the
equipment for the youngsters at Whistle stop Park being rusted.
She went over Sunday and it is true a couple of pieces are rather
rusted out. She asked Mr. Corder about it and he informed her he
has purchased them and very soon there will be a substitute for
those rusted pieces. The person that contacted her suggested the
Boy Scouts who are always looking for a project. If other things
need to be done in the future, maybe they could do a job for us.
Councilman Brown stated Myron Hammond, an ex-Councilman offered
free towing for anyone that got intoxicated over the Holidays.
The cab company, as well as the Police Department were also
offering free rides for anyone that drank too much.
Councilman Brown stated he was driving down US #1 and saw a car
pulled over in the median and another car pulled in behind him
assisting a gentleman who had a heart attack. He was proud to
see this happening. He feels it is things like that that make a
small town like this worth living in.
Councilman Brown spoke about the groundbreaking for the YMCA
swimming pool. They also drew for the $24,000 boat. The first
ticket pulled was one of the Board members, who refused the boat
and had them pull another ticket. He feels that is spectacular.
Mayor Schmidt reminded the citizens the deadline of March 1st is
coming up for the Senior Homestead Exemption as well as the
normal Homestead Exemption.
Mayor Schmidt stated he is not a politician so a lot of this
stuff is new to him. He feels that he needs as much verbiage
from staff so he can get a handle on what is going on. He
decided the Workshop tomorrow night would be a Workshop between
the City Council, City Attorney, City Manager, Police Chief, Fire
Chief and Chief Planner because he needs to hear all different
sides of this because this is something that not only affects us
today but if it is done right it is going to affect for many
years.
Mayor Schmidt felt it would be a good idea to take the Workshop
on the road and open up the third Workshop directly to the
citizens of the City on February 5th at 6 p.m. at Edgewater
Landing Clubhouse. He further spoke about Edgewater Landing
being a comfortable spot and the City being there before. It is
capable of holding more people than sit in this room right now at
a more comfortable level.
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Mayor Schmidt feels it would be much more suited to hear from a
lot more people. They get on average the same general people who
attend the meetings. He doesn't want to hear from the same
general people on something this important. He wants residents
from Edgewater Landing, Riverside Drive and Florida Shores that
don't normally come to meetings to come to a meeting. He doesn't
want people to hear from e-mails, other people that are trying to
be good citizens but unfortunately know how to prey on other
people that don't normally get out. He wants this to be as open
as possible. He would also like to have some of the business
owners there. He is trying to learn as much as he can.
Mr. capria stated he doesn't disagree with this meeting but he
feels there is too much politics involved. He thinks they should
have this type of meeting at a school. If people want to come,
they will come. He feels all you are going to get at Edgewater
Landing is Edgewater Landing residents and a few outsiders and no
more. Mark my words. Mayor Schmidt stated he is hoping to get
many more. Mr. capria stated you won't.
councilman Vincenzi stated at the meeting tomorrow night there
will be a sound demonstration. City Manager Hooper stated his
agenda is to go through and highlight the current Code
conditions. Some of the letters and input that he has gotten
back has indicated that maybe there isn't a clear understanding
among everybody of the current Land Development Code. He would
like to take the Council and audience members present outside to
show what 60 and 70 decibels sound like at fifty feet and a
hundred feet. He will take the Council through the first draft
that he has prepared that is based on the first Work Session. He
would like to get input from Council and let them talk among each
other. If there are changes to it, send it back to him on what
they do, create another draft and hold the third Work Session.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he wanted to make it clear that
tomorrow night the city will be showing off the new sound meter
they just purchased.
PUBLIC HEARINGS. ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
There were no public hearings, ordinances or resolutions at this
time.
CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be approved on the Consent Agenda at this
time.
OTHER BUSINESS
A. Proposed Development Plan - Developers Ed Grant and Jim Scott
seekinq approval of a sinqle-familv residential subdivision
consistent with a Joint stipulation and Motion for Final
Judgement issued bv a Federal Court and recorded September 20,
1988
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He stated
Chairman of the Planning and Zoning Board, Bob Garthwaite, was
active with this lawsuit when it was done at the time so he asked
him to come in and give him some history. He feels with the
information given to him by Mr. Garthwaite and what they could
get out of the minutes, they were able to follow the reason, the
rationale and the approach. The property has been sold and they
have developers that are interested in coming in and building.
He and city Attorney Cookson have looked at it and feel the plan
is compliant with the Court Order. The Court Order doesn't allow
a zoning designation on the property. He stated this has a
maximum number of units and some development criteria.
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Council Regular Meeting
January 7, 2002
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Chief Planner Darren Lear went through the proposed plan for this
piece of property. He further commented on the phases.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there are two exits onto U.S. #1 or
just a common exit with Silver Ridge. Mr. Lear stated it is not
a common exit with silver Ridge, it will be an exit just for its
own off of u.s. #1 and then the one on Glenwood.
Mayor Schmidt asked if Riverside National Bank plans on building
on the outer corner. A lady in the audience informed him they
are building at the corner of Falcon.
City Manager Hooper informed the Council the developers were here
if they had any questions.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they really don't have much control
over this. City Manager Hooper stated they have limited control.
He is asking the Council to look at this plan and inform him this
plan is consistent therefore they go do the next step which is a
developer agreement and head the plat. It doesn't go to P & Z
except for the preliminary plat. There is no zoning.
councilwoman Rhodes stated what if they say it isn't consistent
with the court order. City Manager Hooper stated then the
Council has to tell him why and then they come back and they
understand that. Staff is telling the Council it is consistent.
Councilwoman Lichter asked to hear from Mr. Garthwaite to see if
he has anything else to add. Mr. Garthwaite stated they covered
it pretty well. No one has any objections beyond the fact that
you can see the woods and leaving all the animals that are there.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have gone through the permits
with the animals. Mr. Lear stated the very first thing is that
it had to come to Council first.
City Manager Hooper stated they don't want to spend money until
the Council says it is consistent. Then they get the permits and
finish drawing some plans. They probably have an option on the
property and if it is consistent with the Court Order and they
get Council's understanding that they can develop and move
forward, then they are off to close on the property, obtain the
necessary permits and move on to construction.
City Attorney Cookson stated he looked over the Court Order and
it is his opinion that the property is consistent with the Court
Order. But the developer doesn't want to rely on his opinion to
move forward. He needs someone with some decision making
authority to tell them that also and that is why this is before
the Council.
Mayor Schmidt asked to meet the developers. Mr. Lear introduced
Ed Grant and Jim Scott.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how this jives with the environmental
issues. Down the road, does the Court Order supercede. city
Manager Hooper explained they will probably go through the normal
development permitting, which would be the st. John's River Water
Management District for stormwater. They would go through the
DEP for putting in water and sewer. They will develop in
accordance to our Land Development Code. What it takes them out
of is the zoning requirements of the Land Development Code.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but it doesn't take them out of the
permitting issue. City Manager Hooper stated no. Councilwoman
Rhodes feels if it applies here then it should apply any number
of other places. City Manager Hooper explained what you had here
was a fight going on between the City and a developer and they
agreed to settle without finishing the legal fight.
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Councilman Brown stated somebody else can't use a smaller size
lot for such to allow them to build. city Attorney Cookson
explained the Court Order has a legal description in it which
describes that piece of property. This is just applicable to
that piece of property.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
Pat Card, 3019 willow Oak Drive, stated he noticed that these are
60 foot lots. We had a big thing about 50 foot lots and that the
Council wouldn't vote for one of those. Sure enough they went to
75 feet but what they did was slipped in on the side of the 75
feet, they were going to waive the ten feet on each side. He
stated here you have 60 foot lots. If he remembers correctly,
that is a railroad right there. The only thing that separates
that from Florida Shores is the railroad. Across the railroad
you have to have 80 foot lots and ten foot on each side.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed Mr. Card he needed to tell the judge
that. Councilwoman Lichter stated they have a Court Order. Mr.
Card questioned if the Court Order says 60 foot lots. City
Manager Hooper stated the court Order dictates that the Council
can only look at a few things, lot depth. It doesn't have
anything that says they can look at lot width. It says they can
have a maximum 200 units on the property, they must be 150 feet
deep along Silver Ridge and it never addresses lot width. Mr.
Card stated so the rest of the lots can be any size they want
them to be. City Manager Hooper stated that is the pathetic part
of it. Mr. Card stated and if the developer wanted to be really
responsible about this so they wouldn't have lots and lots more
coming in on the Council, they might be able to convince the
developer to go to 75 foot lots. All they did the last time was
run this through the Planning and Zoning Board and they came back
and recommended this go to 75 foot lots. Sure enough the
developer came back and said he didn't want to do it that way but
another developer came in and said he would. Maybe what they
need to do is say they would like to see this go to 75 foot lots
and then they have to plat it differently.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is thinking there might be other
legal issues if they did that. city Attorney Cookson explained
it is important that both sides comply with the Court Order. He
thinks one thing that is important to realize is the Court Order
gives the developer of this piece of property the right to
develop up to 200 units on the property and 200 units keeping the
150 depth of those top lots shrinks the width down but he is only
putting in 97 units so he has the right to put in 200 units on
this piece of property and is choosing to put in 97.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the Court gave them the right to do
that, not the City, and we have to abide by what the Court gave
him the right to do. Mr. Card stated but the Council can ask him
to go to 75 feet. Councilwoman Rhodes asked the developer if he
would go to 75 feet. She stated he said-no.
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, asked if it was dictated by
the Court that it would be this narrow. The Court says you can
have 200 units but you could have two story units or you could
have apartment complexes. There are a lot of things you could do
with it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it has to be single family.
city Attorney Cookson stated the Court Order contemplates single
family along the northern portion of Silver Ridge but the rest
could be multi-family. Mr. Heeb stated he hasn't seen anything
other than the item in the newspaper that said the units would be
65 feet wide. He came to the meeting to say he doesn't like to
see 65 foot lots in Edgewater. Hopefully the developers will
take a look at the city of Edgewater and see what we are doing,
see what kind of City we have and use a little compassion.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
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Councilwoman Lichter stated the residents of Silver Ridge
immediately abut this property. She asked Mr. Garthwaite if he
found any comments similar to that. Mr. Garthwaite stated the
people had no objections to it. They said sooner or later it was
going to have to be developed as long as it is by the Court
Order. Unfortunately the concern now is two-story homes. city
Attorney Cookson stated from reading the Court Order it becomes
apparent the residents of Silver Ridge were involved in this.
They've got a natural buffer between their subdivision and this
subdivision. One of the unique features of this is this would be
an ideal subdivision for some inter connectivity between the
roads between Silver Ridge and this subdivision but the Court
Order specifically prohibits that so it is fairly apparent that
there was a lot of discussion and input from the residents of
Silver Ridge on this settlement.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated and all you want from us is that we
agree or disagree that it is consistent with the conditions of
the Court Order. City Manager Hooper stated they are just saying
it is consistent. If they find it inconsistent, they have to
tell him why.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion that based on staff's
recommendation, the City Attorney's judgement, her perusal and
looking at the plan, it appears to her that the proposed
development is consistent with the Joint Stipulation and Motion
for Final Judgement which was recorded September 20, 1988 and
therefore authorize the developers to proceed with a development
agreement and final plat, which also means they will need to go
through all forms of permitting, second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
B. Waivinq Buildinq Permit Application Fees for Habitat for
Humanity - staff recommendinq waivinq only city mandated review
fees, impact fees and permit fees to construct a single-familY
house
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Mayor Schmidt asked if these need to come in front of the Council
for something like this for this type of organization. city
Manager Hooper explained they have had a variety of approaches
and also there have been different approaches with different
Councils. They decided to go to Council to make it consistent so
that when any other houses coming in from Habitat for Humanity
know exactly what they have to pay up front. He briefly spoke
about other organizations that have requested waivers to impact
fees that they haven't granted, as well as on City buildings.
Councilwoman Lichter stated her only problem with a blanket
waiver is that sometimes the circumstance of an organization may
change or the city's finances may change. She feels it is open
ended so she is a bit hesitant in terms of permits of any type to
make a blanket waiver.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated this is just a blanket for Habitat for
Humanity, not anybody else.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested taking each application one at a
time. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested doing it for a period of a
year and renew it every year. councilwoman Lichter like this
idea. She doesn't want to see it totally open ended.
City Attorney Cookson stated they could approve it and in the
approval specify at any point and if they want to come back and
change it they can. Approve it now subject to the Council
changing its mind and at some point in the future if they don't
think Habitat for Humanity is what it is now, reinstate the fees.
city Manager Hooper explained it is almost like a sunset
provision. Page -8-
Council Regular Meeting
January 7, 2002
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Councilwoman Rhodes suggested a waiver for a year to review
yearly such as the budget process. City Manager Hooper suggested
putting it for Fiscal Year 2002 and bring it back every year.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
Bob Perry, Construction Supervisor, Habitat for Humanity, thanked
the city of Edgewater for the extreme generosity towards Habitat
in the past. The Building Department has been outstanding. They
have really worked with them. The city has waived all the fees
except for the radon gas fee and the meter deposit fee for the
last four houses that have been built. It was a total of $104
that they wound up paying. This saved them a lot of money,
probably $4,000 or $5,000 and that is the reason they build so
many houses in Edgewater. All of their houses are built by
donations so anything they can save is really appreciated. They
are hoping some of the fees that have been waived in the past,
they can continue to waive in addition to the ones that were on
that form but maybe some of the impact fees because any money
they can save they can use it to roll it over and build more
houses. They have four or five more lots in Edgewater they would
like to build on over the next couple of years.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the procedure is now. If they
come individually and ask for a waiver. City Manager Hooper
spoke about what occurs now. The Building Department sent over
the last one to him and asked if they could waive the impact
fees. He informed them no. Impact fees are established by bond
covenants and we have obligations on water and sewer that
strictly say you can't waive those. He further spoke about the
Police and Fire Impact fees that were implemented this past year.
The ones that are not adopted along those lines he doesn't have a
problem with the City saying it is going to waive.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he would not be in favor of a blanket.
He is not in favor of this but he is in favor of being able to
review each one as they come in or having staff review each one
sending a recommendation forward. He feels it should be done on
an individual basis.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated once again you will get into the issue
of public money being used for charitable organizations. She has
a real struggle with that.
Bill Maul, President, Southeast Volusia Habitat for Humanity,
stated they have eight houses completed in Edgewater and two
under construction. Those impact fees, the $4,000 or $5,000 pays
for a roof. Any donation that is given to them and they could
think of Edgewater providing a donation for that house, it goes
right into building. He spoke about a lot of people working hard
to help people who without that help at this time could never
hope to own a home. That will be ten community members paying
their taxes in this community but they needed that kick start to
get going. When they are finished with the current construction
routine, they built five houses in 2000 and three houses in 2001.
This year they see them building another five houses. He
presented a history of houses that have been built in Southeast
Volusia since 1989 and the requirements someone must follow in
order to get a Habitat home.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with him in her personal opinion.
People have asked her where they could donate money and her first
answer is always Habitat for Humanity. There are others that are
equally as good and equally as deserving. We are entrusted with
the public trust of everybody and we are entrusted with their
money and their tax dollars and they are looking to the Council
to not give it away.
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January 7, 2002
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councilwoman Rhodes stated she is sure everybody wants to help
and they are going to do what they can to help but has a real
issue with this. The City has many people that come before them
and want charitable donations. She works for a church and nobody
believes in charity more than she does.
Mr. Maul spoke about their houses being built solely by
volunteers but there are some jobs you can't volunteer for and
they pay usually a very good rate but they pay none the less.
You can't get a volunteer to pour the cement, put in the
plumbing, put in the electrical work, put in the heating and the
appliances. So there is a portion of the house they must pay for
because they need a licensed employee to build that house. So
there is a give back to the community too because it provides
gainful employment to a number of organizations in Edgewater and
New Smyrna that provide the services they need to put that house
up and put it up to Code. Councilwoman Rhodes stated and that is
where it belongs, it belongs in the private sector.
Councilwoman Lichter stated fees one through eight are local and
can be legally waived. How much are they talking about? City
Manager Hooper stated $508 per household.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the question that arose was shall
they do it per house, issue or shall it be on a more permanent
type of setup? That is the question we are dealing with.
City Manager Hooper stated he is after a policy that says Dear
Habitat, from here on you can count on having to do this and we
will waive that so they will know the rules of the game.
Councilwoman Lichter again mentioned City circumstances changing
and organizations changing. She would like to see some end to
that permanent. She would be in favor of letting the process of
one to eight, the $508, not be paid out of their pocket and also
that yearly they look at the situation and review it in terms of
their finances.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the end result is the same as long as
circumstances stay the same, they get the fees waived. But he
doesn't see a problem with reviewing each one individually.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they could be reviewed individually
but she thinks it is fair to Habitat to let them know what they
can count on from the City so they know what they have to get
from private sources.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they can probably count on having the
fees waived unless something changes.
Mayor Schmidt asked about the reuse water fee and if they need
that on there. Can that be one of those that if the homeowner
decides they want reuse that they can go ahead and do the reuse
themselves and not even have it on the sheet. City Manager
Hooper stated it is really on there only if they do use it. If
they don't want it, they aren't going to pay it. It is on there
if they come in but the question has been if they come in and ask
for it can it be waived and it got into one of those utility
deals that no free service can you issue.
Dick Jones, 1530 Sabal Palm Drive, stated his experience with
Habitat for Humanity has been merely what he sees in the press.
The gentleman earlier answered his question regarding what is the
owner's obligation in regards to that property. They have to pay
the principle on the mortgage. What happens to the property if
the people default on their mortgage?
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Mr. Maul stated they haven't had to foreclose on any mortgages.
If the house foreclosed, depending on how long they were in the
house, the house would probably be sold. Unless it happens
within a five year period, there might be another Habitat family
in the wings who would take it over. They have a family support
system that maintains contact with the family until they get to
feel at home in their home. They have had some shaky experiences
but by in large, the lion share of those families have taken that
opportunity to be a homeowner with tremendous pride. He spoke
about the children that have gone through this experience too.
Those children as they grow up are seeing a world in front of
them that they couldn't imagine seeing had they stayed where they
were living and in that environment.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are also building in New
Smyrna and in Oak Hill. Mr. Maul stated they are annoyed they
aren't building enough in New Smyrna. It just happened they got
a number of lots in Edgewater and the applicant's coincidentally
were from the Edgewater area. They are going to start a home in
New Smyrna in a couple of weeks.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they waive their fees. Mr. Perry
stated yes they do.
Councilman vincenzi asked if they are going to be around after
they decide this or if they are going to leave? Mr. Maul stated
they would be there.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion in terms of waiving Fees one
to eight for Habitat for a year's time and then to be reviewed
again, second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The motion CARRIED 4-1.
Councilman Vincenzi voted NO because he thinks they should be
reviewed individually.
C. Community Redevelopment Aqency (CRA) - for discussion only
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. They have the
draft resolutions, draft ordinances and the implementation. He
suggested they submit that to the County, since they have a new
process and let them look it over. He wants to submit all of
that as if it is a development, go through their process, let
them make their comments, they fine tune the ordinances and
resolutions and have that back in front of Council for its first
adoption and it goes to the County for their approval and
adoption to create a CRA for the 550 acres, which is the FIND
parcel and around Massey Airpark. If that is okay with Council
they will submit it to the County. It will go through a DRC
review as if it were a development project. They will make any
comments on the redevelopment plan, how the money is to be spent
and get that back to the City so when it is in front of Council
for final adoption it should match what the city wants to see.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned if this is going to cost the City
any money. City Manager Hooper informed her no.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what type of things a CRA deals with.
She stated City Manager Hooper mentioned industrial, a business
type area. Is that the only thing you can have a CRA for? city
Manager Hooper stated the Council will see and have opportunity
to approve the redevelopment plan. This is just a draft to go to
them. The CRA is set up so its real purpose is to add
infrastructure into an area to increase the value of the property
in the area and add value to the tax rolls.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked about the Massey area being
residential. City Manager Hooper stated they have not included
the residential. Everything they are talking about is industrial
based. Most of the property they are talking about is
undeveloped.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Hooper if he sees one
possibly involving small business in the center of town to try
and make more of a center. City Manager Hooper spoke of there
being two types of redevelopment, one being an economic
development, which is what he calls this. The other type is what
you see when you go along Beach street in Daytona or Canal street
in New Smyrna where you have more of a beautification for a
downtown area. Those are different and don't necessarily bring
revenues to a city.
Mayor Schmidt stated they had talked about that along U.S. #1 in
the future. City Manager Hooper stated as soon as they land on a
city Hall site that is what they want to look at.
Councilwoman Lichter stated once you are involved in one of
these, you are talking matching money are you not. City Manager
Hooper stated you are only talking of new money. As the
appraised value of that property goes up, there will be a revenue
coming in from the millage of the County and millage of the city.
That money all comes to the CRA and the CRA has a definite
redevelopment plan on how that money is spent.
City Manager Hooper stated we have the ordinances, resolutions
and studies completed. Now they just need to send them to the
County and see if they are complete in a format that they are
willing to say they are going to sign off. The County rightfully
so because half the money that comes into the CRA is County
money. The other half is the City's money. That is only because
our millage rates are about the same. If the millage in the
County and City were grossly different, then it wouldn't be a
50/50.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned the cities no longer being in
control of it. City Manager Hooper stated some cities have said
that. Two cities had delegated authority and had some controls.
The other cities in the County never had control. They had to
submit a CRA plan to the county just like we are doing and go
through the process. There has been a lot of discussion of
really what that control meant.
Councilwoman Lichter stated there is no harm in letting City
Manager Hooper submit the paperwork but she needs more in depth
information. It is a not so familiar subject to her. Is the
land that the high school decided not to use that we put aside
near the college thrown into this too? City Manager Hooper
stated yes, everything inside the FIND property that we are
buying is inside the CRA.
It was the consensus of Council for City Manager Hooper to submit
the paperwork to the County.
OFFICER REPORTS
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
City Attorney Cookson had nothing at this time.
city Manaqer
1) Cancel/reschedule meetinq of February 18, 2002, due to holiday
(President's Day)
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city Manager Hooper informed the Council they needed to
reschedule the meeting of February 18th due to it being a
holiday. He suggested having one meeting in February on the
11th.
It was the consensus of Council to hold the meeting on February
11th.
City Manager Hooper reminded the Council of the Workshop on
February 5 th .
Mayor Schmidt reminded City Manager Hooper about the letter he
will need for the MPO for Council's support on lighting and speed
limits. city Manager Hooper informed him they are done.
CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, informed Mayor Schmidt that nobody
has worked any harder to get people to come to these meetings
than she has. There are probably very few people tonight that
she hasn't called at some time or another. She has made that her
vocation so she resents that. She also resents the fact that he
doesn't want to hear from them. She doesn't come up here because
she enjoys it that much but she does care about her city. When
she sees things that she thinks are wrong she is going to talk
about them. That is her right.
Ms. Hill stated what they are talking about she has come up here
three or four times and said the same things over an over but it
hasn't gotten through to any of the Council what she has been
talking abut. They are talking about zoning. Zoning has its
uses and it has its limitations. When you have business zoning
that impacts residential, you have to give them every
consideration and the Council is not giving them that
consideration. That is the number one point she is trying to
make.
Ms. Hill stated restaurants can not have bands or entertainment
unless it is a conditional use. It is right in the Codes and
Ordinances. They have spent ten years on this and it came before
Council and they have already approved it. Most of it has gone
through both readings and it becomes part of our Codes as soon as
it is signed. There are a couple of sections that have only gone
through first reading. She suggested before they to the next
meeting so they can talk it over that they really study it. She
doesn't want to be told that she can't come up here and speak.
Richard Jones, 1530 Sabal Palm Drive, stated the reason he came
was because of the CRA being on the agenda and this is a
realization that goes back to 1992 or 1993 when he was on the
Economic Development Board and he is happy to see this coming
through. He is concerned about the County's involvement and what
they are going to do with the excess funds that are made
available as a result of the CRA decision on where they are going
to freeze the tax dollars and the excess over that would become
available for redevelopment.
City Manager Hooper stated the money that comes to the CRA is
from two sources, the City and the County. Those are a roughly
50/50 split and that is why the County demanded some say so. In
the areas they had delegated before, they were giving their money
to those two cities and had zero say in how that money was spent.
They are saying that is County ad valorem tax that is going into
CRA and to be spent in a certain way and they wanted to have some
say so in how that is spent.
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Mr. Jones stated so there is still the possibility that they
would be trying to allocate some of those funds to their own
projects. City Manager Hooper explained what they do is in the
beginning they approve a redevelopment plan. That is what the
city is going to submit. A list of the things the city wants to
spend the money on and the order in which we want to spend them.
That is the only involvement the County has. They approve that
and if the CRA wants to change that, they have to come back to
the City and County and ask. He spoke about New Smyrna having
100% control of the funds that were available as a result of the
CRA. That is what he was looking for in Edgewater.
City Manager Hooper stated you have 100% but you have to present
them on how it will be spent. After they approve, it then you
are done.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Jones when he was Chairman of
Economic Development was there a particular area that Board came
up with for this kind of thing. Mr. Jones stated there were five
specific areas they had selected.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes
moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8:37 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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