04-01-2002 - Regular
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 1, 2002
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Schmidt called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Legal Assistant Robin Matusick
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the
Flag.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Reqular Meeting of March 18. 2002
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the March 18, 2002 minutes,
second by Councilwoman Rhodes. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DONATIONS
There were no presentations at this time.
Mayor Schmidt moved the Update of the YMCA/Pool Contract up on
the agenda.
city Manager Hooper made a staff presentation with regard to an
update on the YMCA/Pool contract. At this point, everything has
been brought up to compliance.
Bob Ludlow introduced himself and Herman Mitchell, Executive
Director, Southeast Volusia YMCA. Mr. Mitchell will be the key
person spearheading the projects as they move forward. They are
about to sign the contract as soon as they get approval from the
Council. Their Board approved the loan unanimously. He has
supplied City Manager Hooper with the construction estimates.
Before they can put people on, the 30-day notice has to be lifted
before they can sign a contract to have their people work.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she is delighted it has worked out
this way. In all marriages there can be problems and they have
solved this one. She is very happy they are together again.
Mr. Ludlow encouraged the Council to contact either Mr. Mitchell,
Mr. Brown or himself if they have any questions or need any help.
Councilman Brown moved to lift the 30-day notice for continuation
of the contract, second by Councilman Vincenzi. The motion
CARRIED 5-0.
Mr. Ludlow informed the Council it will take 60 to 80 days for
final completion but the contractor says once he gets on the
ground with Weller it will probably be done in about 45 days.
The work should begin next Monday.
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CITIZEN COMMENTS
Jeanne DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, spoke about a problem she
has with her water. She feels she has a lot of lime coming
through the lines through her house. She doesn't feel she should
have to pay a water bill when she can't use the water. She
showed the Council a sample of what has been coming through her
lines. She stated Department of Environmental Services Director
Terry Wadsworth had Wayne Nichols come out and they flushed the
whole system in the house, including the water tank. within a
day it was a build up allover again. Last Thursday they came out
and took the 2" pipe and moved the water line and they brought it
over to a 6" line but it isn't solving the problem. She is still
getting all that stuff coming out of her water. She doesn't know
what can be done about it.
City Manager Hooper stated they will have some chemical analysis
done. It is either calcium or lime. Ms. DelNigro stated Mr.
Wadsworth told her it was lime.
city Manager Hooper stated the odd part is they have no other
complaints in the City about this substance.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how long this has been going on.
DelNigro stated about two months. They thought it was the
tank but it is a brand new water tank so they flushed that
there wasn't anything coming out of that.
Ms.
water
and
Councilwoman Lichter assumed Ms. DelNigro is asking about paying
her water bill until it is solved. She asked if anything like
this has ever happened before.
City Manager Hooper stated they send out a minimum bill for water
and they did adjust it but it wasn't much. Ms. DelNigro stated
she got a $1.30 credit which she doesn't want. She wants her
problem solved.
Gail Wells, 2503 Woodland Drive, stated she was here about six
weeks and spoke about Code Enforcement and the problems she was
having with it and she believed the codes were not being
enforced. Since then absolutely nothing has been done. This
problem has been going on for a year. She asked what it takes to
get some of these Codes enforced. She showed Council pictures
she had. She feels they are letting everybody do what they want
to with their yards. She would like to know where Council stands
on these issues. She further spoke about reviewing the new
Codes. She can not believe the new Codes that were passed in
August 2001 were ever passed.
Ms. Wells commented on inoperable, abandoned or junked vehicles,
restoration of vehicles, watercraft canopies and commercial
vehicles with regard to the way the Codes were before and the way
they are now. She feels the Codes are not being enforced and the
new Codes in effect are terrible.
Ms. Wells then spoke about neglected premises.
Ms. Wells stated she sent the Council letters and asked them to
contact her and she hasn't heard anything. Everybody that she
has spoken to cares about their property and they do want to have
stricter Codes than these. If she has to, she will get a
petition. She feels they are letting everybody do whatever they
want.
Ms. Wells asked where the Council stands. She would like to know
if they have read these Codes and if they feel they are a good
idea for Edgewater.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke about hearings they had with regard to
the Codes. The only part they had repercussions with was when
they tried to tighten up on the canopies. Generally, people
living in Florida Shores do not want the strictest of Codes.
They are living there because they want that feeling of freedom.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she would hope that each individual
would keep their land looking as lovely and beautiful as she
tries to keep hers but she also knows that there is not that type
of feeling when they moved in there. They want a little more
leeway. The Codes were not done by us. They were done by a
professional with public input.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Code Enforcement, when they had one
person, may have been a little slack. They are all trying to
educate people. She feels the Codes on the books have to be
enforced. Ms. Wells stated the Codes on the books aren't being
enforced.
Mayor Schmidt stated they understand from meeting after meeting
what Ms. Wells is looking for.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she and Ms. Wells did meet and they
also met with City Manager Hooper. She feels the Code they were
presented with was an excellent Code. The citizens of this city
didn't like it and rewrote it and they passed it to represent
them. She feels they have a problem with Code Enforcement. If
they have Codes, they need to be enforced otherwise don't have
them.
Mayor Schmidt stated he would love to live in a community where
everybody really cared what the property looked like. He
commented on the trash he has picked up at his restaurant. He
stated he didn't see some of the pictures she brought. He agrees
the picture with the gray tarp shouldn't be allowed. He knows
sometimes the process takes a little time and he knows they do
have some issues with Code Enforcement that they are trying to
work out.
Mayor Schmidt informed Ms. Wells depending on how you read the
Codes or make your statement and leave certain things out, people
can assume.
Councilman Vincenzi spoke about going over this about a year and
a half ago and there being some things the Committee did that he
didn't like. He tried to get a few things changed but nobody
wanted to support it. They liked the way it was, they thought it
was good and that is what they have to work with.
Councilman Vincenzi stated what Ms. Wells thinks is a violation
may not be what Code Enforcement thinks is a violation. It takes
a couple of weeks, if you have a real violator, that doesn't want
to cooperate, to get their attention.
Ms. Wells stated all she hears is excuses. The pictures she has
are almost a year old. Councilman Vincenzi stated he spoke to
people in Code Enforcement since the last time Ms. Wells was here
and they disagree with some of the things she has said. He spoke
about riding up and down Ms. Wells street. They are working on
the problem and have hired another Code Enforcement Officer. He
further spoke about having limited resources.
Councilman Brown stated they know Code Enforcement has problems
that they are attempting to take care of. A group of 17 citizens
made the laws up and the Council made it into law for the
citizenry. It was not their idea. They can only do the will of
the majority of the people and that is what they are up there to
do.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Councilwoman Rhodes spoke about a meeting with Ms. Wells where
she was asked to show support for what she wants and they would
go back and revisit the issue and change it. She has not seen
that support yet. Ms. Wells stated she wanted to hear where
Council stands because she has never heard from many of the
Councilpeople before she went to get a petition.
City Manager Hooper also spoke about meetings Ms. Wells has had
with several staff members. Code Enforcement has followed up on
many of them but it takes time. They encouraged Ms. Wells to
find some support, especially from the Florida Shores Homeowners
Association. He spoke about many people expressing opposition
because it is not a mandatory homeowners association. The
Committee came back with strong recommendations. They have been
through the process as clear as it can be. The Code Officers are
on it daily.
Elizabeth DiMascio, 1918 S. Riverside Drive, stated Edgewater is
a small town and the beauty of it is the boats and the luxury of
going on the water. She feels sometimes the people that have
boats have other toys which they don't make storage for. She
stated there is a place in New Smyrna for the storage of these
things. She suggested having a storage place in Edgewater to
help some of these people because they probably aren't even aware
of the ordinance.
Councilwoman Lichter feels education is a word she used and she
thinks that is a good point.
Ms. DiMascio spoke about coming up with a resolution between the
Council and the people.
Andy Anderson, pine Tree Drive, stated he served on the Ad-Hoc
Committee concerning Code Enforcement. They were addressing the
problems Ms. Wells is talking about. The only problem with that
Committee was 90% of the members were people who were stomping
their feet and that made a very uneven playing field. He feels
this is more liberal than it was before. He feels a fair way to
have done that would be to have equal numbers on each side, so
many pro and so many con.
Mayor Schmidt stated he feels the people on the committee did the
best job they could and he doesn't think any of them went into it
with their own ideas on what they wanted to see and he feels they
were all fair minded people and he appreciates the work they did.
Mr. Anderson feels they wanted to liberalize what was already
there and he feels they succeeded.
Scott Goodman, 1428 Airpark Road, spoke about the noise from the
airport and the flying styles getting totally out of hand. He
feels if the people living around the airport would have had a
chance to vote on the asphalt runway it has now, he doesn't think
it would have ever gotten done. He further spoke about the
different uses for flying. He feels the City needs to address
this problem. He spoke about some of the pilots antagonizing him
on purpose. He has contacted Ms. Massey about this and she
informed him there is nothing she can do. He has spoken to all
the property authorities from the FAA to Congressman Mica and
they tell him the problem is in the hands of wherever the airport
is located. He had a letter from Congressman Mica when the
property was in the County. He tried going through the County
and they told him it was the city's problem.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked what jurisdiction the City of Edgewater
has over the air. City Manager Hooper commented on a meeting he
had with Mr. Goodman. There is virtually nothing they can do
except zoning of industrial or aviation property adjacent, which
they know, they do it already.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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City Manager Hooper further explained as far as any controls over
the airplane, the noise, the height and what they do, that is all
FAA. He spoke about an aerobatic box and being allowed to do
stunts over that airport. As of last week, it has been revoked
at the request of Massey. The gentleman from FAA is going to
send him a set of the rules. There is virtually nothing inside
the City's jurisdiction for controlling air space.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated but somebody controls it. City
Manager Hooper informed her FAA and DOT.
Councilwoman Lichter stated Massey has always cooperated with
them and them with Massey in all kinds of ways. She asked if
that is the dialogue they could help him and his neighbors with.
City Manager Hooper stated he thinks they are doing that by
letting the FAA know there is a concern and that the City shares
that concern.
Mr. Goodman stated he has been everywhere and keeps getting
pushed to somebody else. He feels somebody has to take
responsibility for it. He isn't going to be pestered by these
inconsiderate pilots anymore.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they could write a letter to
express their concern for Edgewater residents that are living
close to the airport and that they are worried about their
safety.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested Mr. Goodman take some video of
someone buzzing him, that would go along way towards letting the
FFA know.
Deanna Bracewell, 1 wildwood Blvd, stated the stunt planes were
just out this evening. She spoke about them being out on a
Saturday at 6:30 a.m. She also feels it is getting ridiculous.
They are so close that you can see them flip you off out the
window. She has contacted the FAA and has gotten no response as
well as the Police Department and they can't do anything about
it. She has a video camera and she has made some films but if
you are looking up in the air with a video camera how do you know
where you are videoing from.
City Manager Hooper asked city Clerk Wadsworth to get the
telephone number of Ms. Bracewell and he would have the gentleman
from FAA contact her. He further commented on the aerobatic box
being revoked.
Ms. Bracewell questioned them not being allowed over populated
areas. City Manager Hooper stated that is correct, under a
certain altitude it changes.
Ray Anderson, 1905 S. Riverside Drive, spoke about this being an
uncontrolled airport and they have the right to fly and do
whatever they want as long as it is in the flight path of the
aircraft. They may be pushing the limits but that has to be
recorded. He further explained a controlled airport has an
aircraft tower and each take off and landing is registered. He
further spoke about decibel limits, which are also referred to as
noise abatement procedures.
Ken Whitter, Marilyn Drive, stated he was here to confirm a
petition that he gave to Councilman Brown last week from 10 of
the 13 residents of Marilyn Drive. He spoke about problems they
have had with two of the tenants on the street. Due to Council
not having a copy, Mr. Whitter read his petition. In the
petition, they requested the residents of 18 and 20 Marilyn Drive
be advised of their complaints with regard to excessive
pollution, noise, reckless driving and other acts that interfere
with the quiet enjoyment of their homes. He then presented
examples of their complaints.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they are renters and if he notified
the landlord. Mr. Whitter stated he has sent a copy of the
petition to the owners of the property. The owners said they
were quite surprised by this and that nobody has complained
before. He spoke about the concerns of people not wanting to
sign the petition due to repercussions. Mr. Whitter as well as
his neighbor are six month residents.
City Manager Hooper informed Council that Code Enforcement is
aware and they are working on it.
There was a brief discussion regarding having a Code Enforcement
Officer on in the evenings.
Barry Raimes spoke in response to this complaint. He manages the
duplexes for his future mother-in-law and father-in-law. They
had no idea this was going on. They have never been contacted
about any of this.
Mayor Schmidt stated he feels their people will stay involved.
Mr. Raimes stated he could take care of the problem. He
on approaching the people that are responsible for this.
feels that is his responsibility and not the City's. If
can't comply, they are out the door.
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Robert Fulton, owner of the duplex, stated he received a copy of
the petition this afternoon in the mail. They have been the
owners of that for 22 years and the tenants they have now, as far
as the landlord is concerned, have been very good. They have
complied with all their requests and have been assisting them in
notifying them of repairs that are needed and making some
themselves with their blessing. He feels they have a good
relationship. He spoke with Mr. Whitter, who informed him about
their behavior, which he has never witnessed. They would be
happy to cooperate with the police and enforcing. He agreed to
speak with them.
Steve Halleck, 14 Marilyn Drive, spoke about their being a lot of
problems because a lot of the owners you never see so they don't
know what goes on there during the early hours of the morning.
He feels all they get is the rent and that is all they care
about.
CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels the real estate signs that are on SR
442 in the right-of-way need to be taken down.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the ribbon cutting she attended
on March 27th for Riverside Bank.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the Indian River Boulevard
Workshop three of them attended, including City Manager Hooper.
She spoke about the effort that is going to be put into
cooperating with the businesses along SR 442 and the homeowners.
That project is going to take about 610 days so they are going to
have to be very patient with the inconvenience.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the last Water Alliance Meeting
she attended. The Water Plan has been accepted by the cities in
Volusia County. What is being worked on by a Tallahassee law
firm is who is going to implement that Water Plan.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Councilwoman Lichter briefly mentioned the Safe Return of
Wandering citizens. We will eventually have a plan in place for
tracking down citizens that wander off or when people that might
have problems are leaving the house.
Councilwoman Lichter stated CleanScene Day is Saturday from 8
a.m. to 11 a.m. Approximately 20 areas have been identified.
She encouraged everyone to attend.
Mayor Schmidt had nothing at this time.
Councilman Brown spoke about taking a tour of the house that
Parks and Recreation now resides in next to Dustin's. He is
looking forward to having the city museum.
Councilman Brown commented on the ParkTowne Industrial Center and
how they are coming along with this project. He feels this
complex is going to be a plus for our city.
There was a fifteen-minute recess at this time.
Mayor Schmidt pointed out the new Harley Davidson motorcycle that
was in the Community Center.
Police Chief Ignasiak made a presentation with regard to
motorcycle patrol and the cost of leasing the motorcycles.
PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. 1st Readinq. Ord. No. 2002-0-04. repealing Article II (Noise)
of Chapter 10 (Health and Sanitation) in its entirety. adopting a
new Article II (Noise)
Mayor Schmidt asked if they could address Ord. 2002-0-04 and Ord.
2002-0-05 at the same time to help with citizen comments and then
vote on them separately.
City Manager Hooper suggested they do them individually.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He referred to
the Noise Restrictions Table on Page 14. He then spoke about
penalties that have been added. He doesn't think there will be
any difficulty enforcing this ordinance.
Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2002-0-04.
Councilwoman Lichter feels this is pretty clear cut, covers
everything and is enforceable.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels this is what they asked to be written.
Mayor Schmidt agreed.
Councilman vincenzi still feels the levels between 9 p.m. and 8
a.m. are too high. He still has questions about enforcement and
who is going to do the enforcing. He knows it says the Police
Department but as far as who will make the determination and how
quickly it is going to be enforced when a violation is discovered
still remains to be seen.
City Manager Hooper made a presentation with regard to the
enforcement of this ordinance. There was a brief discussion
regarding who to call with a complaint. It was determined they
would call the Police Department Dispatch.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned if they would be giving out
warnings or if they would actually be able to make someone cease
and desist.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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City Manager Hooper presented an example of how this would be
handled. If an Officer responds and tells the individual they
are too loud and they turn it down but it is turned back up, an
Officer will tell someone to cease and desist and if they were to
turn it up again they could be arrested.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about when the City goes with the
Consolidated Dispatch, if they will know how to implement
Edgewater's rules and regulations. Police Chief Ignasiak assured
her calling the combined dispatch center will be the same as
calling here.
Councilman Brown feels the ordinance is enforceable, clear and
concise. He doesn't feel there are any changes that need to be
made.
Mayor Schmidt mentioned Code Enforcement being on duty for the
two ten-day special events. City Manager Hooper explained they
would be on-call or at the facility. They will work through that
and that will be covered.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing. He asked the public to
limit their comments to three minutes each.
Elizabeth DiMascio, 1918 S. Riverside Drive, stated she was here
to express the views and concerns of the Riverside Drive civic
Association Board of Directors. They requested the hours be
changed for residential from 55 to 50 decibels during the night
time.
Mary Hansen, 420 S. Nova Road, Daytona Beach, stated she is
representing the No Name Saloon. She asked to extend the limit
of the three minutes due to having fairly extensive comments.
She feels the ordinance needs to go back through the process.
She stated she sees some very serious concerns of enforceability.
Ms. Hansen referred to the definition section with regard to
Cultural Event, Noise, Noise Nuisance~ Noise Sensitive Zone,
Plainly Audible, Real Property Line and Sound.
Ms. Hansen then referred to section 10-22 - General Restrictions,
section 10-23 - specific Noises Prohibited, and section 10-26 -
Waivers for Cultural Events, and section 10-28 - Penalties.
Ms. Hansen then commented on the Noise Levels and Hours selected.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated City Attorney Cookson looked this over
and she suggested Ms. Hansen contact him because he says this is
good. Ms. Hansen felt City Attorney Cookson should be present
tonight to respond to that. She stated she had offered to help
originally and that never transpired.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about the old Code book and the State
Statutes being referred to. She asked if that is where the
definitions come from. She questioned if they need that kind of
reference back.
City Manager Hooper explained the State has gotten away from a
lot of that. He stated these definitions and for the most part
all conditions in here are from existing ordinance that have been
approved that are part of Volusia County as it exists today. He
is comfortable that the ordinance before Council is enforceable.
There can be misinterpretation of it by an individual but the
conditions in here are very clear.
City Manager Hooper agreed to meet with Mary Hansen and City
Attorney Cookson before the second reading of this ordinance.
Mayor Schmidt stated they would have City Attorney Cookson
present for the second reading of the ordinance.
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April 1, 2002
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Anton Heeb, 616 N. Riverside Drive, stated he can appreciate what
it takes to work out all of the logistics of a noise ordinance.
He spoke about the definition of noise and noise nuisance. He
thinks what they are trying to accomplish is to establish that
they do not want to interfere with the rights of other. He asked
Council to keep this in mind when they are thinking about the
logistics of what it takes to enforce this ordinance.
Wolf Unger, 1820 Kumquat Drive, also agreed the night time
decibel could be reduced. He further commented on ambiguities he
sees in the ordinance. He expressed concern with the average
homeowner who will be mowing his lawn. He referred to section
10-23 (7) and section 10-24. He feels the ambiguities need to be
taken care of.
Ray Anderson, 1905 S. Riverside Drive, stated he is speaking for
several families also at 1904, 1904B, and 1908 S. Riverside Drive
and will also exceed five minutes but would keep it as brief as
possible.
Mr. Anderson feels they have come a long way and have done a nice
job. He considers tonight really the first opportunity they have
had to put input into this. He has done some research and some
comparisons. He referred to handouts given to Council. He feels
65 and 60 decibels are too high and he would like to see a lower
decibel. He then referred to a definition of decibels.
Mr. Anderson then read a prepared statement with regard to
outdoor music, special activities and noise. He spoke about
articles in the newspaper. He then spoke about boom cars and
doesn't feel Council is considering that as a noise problem at
this time. He feels the correct measurement of decibels would
also aid in the aviation problem. He feels all the work and
effort put into the drafts seem to be skirting the real problem.
Mr. Anderson feels it is important for the Council to recognize
the discrepancies and acquire accurate level measurements before
they write into law information that is incomplete and perhaps
unlawful. He asked Council to table this decision until all
parties accept a recognized measuring company. He also asked
Council to consider hiring an outside company and he has a
computerized list of people who will do that. He feels they need
a separate section to deal with motorcycles, noises and
airplanes. He feels they need a method of automatic limiting the
volumes. Once the limits have been established, then a review
board should be formed in case of error or modifications being
necessary. These are steps that have not been done and should be
infiltrated.
Councilman Brown asked if the boom cars are enforceable under
this ordinance. City Manager Hooper stated if it's not in here,
which it really wasn't intended to be, there are State Statutes
that cover that on State Roads and County Roads.
City Manager Hooper spoke about reviewing ordinances from other
cities in Volusia County, Seminole County and Orange County.
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, feels under the noise
restrictions it should be 50 at night.
Roger Hammond, 2104 S. Riverside Drive, stated he is still
against the noise ordinance. He feels what the Council is doing
is in vein and that it will be out of hand in two years. He
doesn't have any confidence with what the Council is voting on.
He feels they aren't just changing the noise, they are changing
the whole environment around that place. He again stated he is
100 percent against it.
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April 1, 2002
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Mike visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, spoke about the landscaping
the Beautification Committee and Parks and Recreation Board have
done and the money that was spent to beautify Edgewater. He
feels the billboard for the No Name Saloon is very loud. Mayor
Schmidt said his comments have nothing to do with the noise
ordinance.
Andy Anderson, pine Tree Drive, stated he doesn't think there
should be any special favors in this City. Nobody should get
anything that no one else is getting.
Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Anderson to explain what special favors
he might be thinking that are happening. Mr. Anderson stated he
is not accusing anybody of that. Mayor Schmidt stated the noise
ordinance relates to everybody in the City. He doesn't feel any
special favors exist.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could lower the sound level
limit to 50 decibels during the night time under residential.
City Manager Hooper explained they could either do that tonight
to move it to the second public hearing, or they could wait and
do it at'the second public hearing or they can drop the
conditions but they can not increase it. He suggested the
Council keep that in mind and get more input because once it is
lowered it can not be increased.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't see any reason why any
additional noise should be added in the evening and why the level
shouldn't be dropped a little bit.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to accept the noise ordinance, number
2002-0-04 with the exception that the decibel level for
residential from 9 p.m. to 8 a.m. be dropped to 50 decibels and
also the noise sensitive zone be dropped to 50 decibels as well,
second by Councilwoman Lichter. The motion CARRIED 4-1. Mayor
Schmidt voted NO because he wanted to wait to make any changes
until the second public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter feels the noise sensitive zone could get
very complicated. She spoke about churches on Hibiscus that are
in the middle of an industrial street as well as the schools
being located close to residential.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
B. 1st Readinq. Ord. No. 2002-0-05. amendinq Article III
(Permitted. Conditional. Accessorv and Prohibited Uses) section
21-37 (Special Activitv/Permit Requirements) of the Land
Development Code
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation regarding the
changes made to Ord. 2002-0-05. He further commented on outdoor
entertainment and amplified sounds.
Councilwoman Lichter stated when they do the one day or two day
extra in six months, will that really mean that there will be a
continuation of the days or do they have the ability or will it
be legal because each thing is coming to the Council. City
Manager Hooper explained the Bike Week has a ten day specified
period of time that is advertised and that is the threshold.
There can not be a gathering of those two days to turn that into
12 days, unless that is approved by a Council at a future date.
The two extra days can not be combined. He further commented on
the reasons the special activity permits will be coming before
Council.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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City Manager Hooper feels the Council has done what they can to
try to find that balance and he feels it is a very clean and
defensible ordinance.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are going to work on future
land development changes would make it stricter for new places.
City Manager Hooper explained for all vacant property in the B-3,
they are putting an ordinance together that says in the future no
outdoor entertainment, other than those that have currently been
approved, which will list those specific areas, will be allowed.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked what happens if they try this and it
doesn't work and they want to get rid of outdoor entertainment
altogether for everyone, will that impact that because they are
vested and have been allowed to do it. City Manager Hooper
explained if they have this set of criteria and they aren't being
followed, it will be easy to eliminate it. If the criteria is
followed, it becomes difficult.
Legal Assistant Matusick read Ord. 2002-0-05 into the record.
Mayor Schmidt opened the public hearing.
Pat Card, 3019 willow Oak Drive, read a prepared statement
objecting to 24 days of special events at the saloons or
properties at the saloons and the noise and congestion they
cause. He feels it is a nuisance. He also feels if the Council
must allow these businesses to have special events, give them two
special events a year, one day during Bike Week and one day
during Biketoberfest.
Mr. Card stated if the Council has any personal interest in this
matter, they should recuse themselves. He feels if they don't
stop this now, they will open a Pandora's Box by inviting more
noise makers into the community. He stated the Council has some
very politically powerful people unhappy with this issue.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they get all the stuff all the time
about political agendas and being politically motivated. Mr.
Card spoke about keeping the people that backed them, these
politically powerful people, whomever they are, happy. If that
is not a reason for enacting any law in the City, why would they
do that. If they are here to keep the people that support them
happy and Mr. Card says they are making them unhappy, that is a
contradiction in terms. Mr. Card stated he said some people,
that mayor may not include her. Councilwoman Rhodes stated you
have to assume it can include any of them and she resents that.
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated the No Name Saloon has been
operating for over six months in non-compliance with the City
Codes and they are doing it, in her estimation, with the help of
the city Manager and the Mayor. She feels with these two
ordinances the Council is trying to legalize this non-compliance
and special permitting by changing the special activities permit
to allow outside bands and amplified music. She feels the
ordinance with regard to special activities is a cop out so they
don't have to make the decision on whether to allow it or now
allow it.
Ms. Hill stated she has lived on Lincoln Road for almost 15 years
and never have they had to put up with the noise, trespass and
disruption of their lives until the City issued No Name Saloon an
occupational license to run wide open. She does not want to put
the No Name Saloon out of business but she does want them to
conduct their business under the same rules as all other such
establishments in this City. She doesn't want the Council to
change the laws that are already in effect to accommodate their
unlimited expansion because she feels that is unfair to the
residents as well as every other business in the City of
Edgewater. Page -11-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Richard Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, feels this past week was
the largest and noisiest yet in Edgewater. The number of
residents complaining was also the largest yet. He stated he has
not heard a single good reason from this council that overrides
the pUblic's right to quiet enjoyment of their homes. He feels
they are piece mealing zoning changes without contemplating the
long term. That will be their legacy. He feels the proposed
ordinance moves Ridgewood Avenue in the direction of Biker Bars
and Tattoo Shops. Not exactly the vision that the Planning and
Zoning Board has been discussing. He feels Mayor Schmidt has
failed to recuse himself from this process and has a serious
appearance of multiple conflicts of interest. He asked the
Council to eliminate outdoor entertainment.
City Manager Hooper stated Mayor Schmidt had the City's legal
counsel review each of those allegations that Mr. Martinez made.
Legal counsel interviewed the Mayor and described and got an
understanding of whether there was financial support and any
legal connection. Mayor Schmidt has a letter from the City
Attorney that defines from any point of legal view that there is
not a conflict of interest. He doesn't think that is a fair
characterization of it and he clearly can define for them that
from a legal perspective it has been reviewed and is available
for anybody that wants to see that.
Mayor Schmidt asked Mr. Martinez what financial interest he has
in the No Name Saloon. Mr. Martinez stated he said he had a
financial interest. Those were his exact words and those were
from his mouth. In 1999, Mayor Schmidt told Mr. Martinez he was
going to operate a concession with Tonya and that he had money
involved in it and because of a change in a decision by the
owner, it was now off but you hadn't gotten your money back.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned tattoo parlors and zoning. Mr.
Martinez feels they are generating a climate where that is the
growth industry in the City. Councilwoman Lichter stated they
haven't made it yet.
Wolfgang Unger, 1820 Kumquat Drive, spoke about freedom of
religion and people having Bible Studies and prayer meetings in
peoples homes and with the way this is worded, this will not be
allowed to take place. He feels this ordinance needs to be
worded clearer.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they should check that out because
there is an inconsistency. Right now the Baptist Church on
Hibiscus Drive has prayer meetings in various homes and that is
recognizable and legitimate. She also feels it needs to be made
clearer.
City Manager Hooper stated his point is well taken. He spoke
about a section in the Land Development Code with regard to
permitted, compatible uses and houses of worship are there. In
the residential areas it could be because it is a conditional
use. Councilwoman Lichter feels maybe they need to look at this
interpretation. City Manager Hooper further mentioned what it
really boils down to is are there complaints of it.
Roger Hammond, 2104 S. Riverside Drive, stated he is against
special events and feels the same way that the other people do
that have spoken.
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, stated he knows the Council
earnestly believes that the noise ordinance that was passed on
first reading will solve the special event problem. He feels
Edgewater is a bedroom community.
Page -12-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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...""
Mr. Heeb stated four Council's before this Council, as well as
this Council, have been telling everyone how this City has a tax
base that is basically residential and preached the need for
economic development to balance this tax base. Our main corridor
is Ridgewood and we are a highway town. He stated very few of
the businesses on Ridgewood Avenue do not abut a residence. He
feels several restaurants and saloons are trying to capitalize on
the Daytona Beach special events draw by attracting motorcycle
riders to Edgewater. We are not a special event area.
Mr. Heeb feels they have a chance to cure outdoor entertainment
with the noise ordinance. He feels they are creating an
environment where they are constantly going to have issues. He
feels they are over looking is a noise the noise ordinance
doesn't address, which is motorcycle noise. He feels they also
aren't addressing allowing the saloons to stay open until 2 a.m.
or 3 a.m. in the morning. He also mentioned the traffic.
Mr. Heeb questioned how they justify what they are doing to the
citizens with this kind of traffic, etc. He also questioned how
many businesses in Edgewater benefit from Bike Week. He reminded
the Council that a large percentage of the population are senior
citizens.
Mr. Heeb feels the simplest solution is to do away with special
events but at a minimum reduce it to two a year per place for
these type of money making events where they are looking to bring
people into the community to spend money at specific businesses.
He also feels this type of activity does not enhance the image of
Edgewater.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated their church plans to have a Bike
event in October. She asked if that is a civic event or is it a
bike event? She feels when you get into saying civic or
charitable, that has to apply across the board.
Mr. Heeb feels if they limited everybody to two special events a
year, then you are treating everybody equally. The only people
that would be interested in having 24 days a year are business
establishments. There would be no reason for any organization to
have 24 events a year, other than a business that is looking to
make money. He understands the desire to make money and he has
no problem with that. If he owned the No Name Saloon he would
probably be doing the same thing but it is up to the Council to
protect the rights of the citizens who are concerned with this
type of activity in this community.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside circle, stated the people came here
to speak and now it is up to the Council to vote. He wants to
see if the Council's vote is what the people desire.
Tonya Girvan, No Name Saloon, 2001 S. Ridgewood Avenue, stated
she has run the No Name Saloon for a year and a half. She has
tried to work with the city. They have removed tents when they
were told. They have taken down temporary bars that you can't
even see from the road when they were told to take them down.
They have not hung banners from their bar because they were told
they were not allowed. They do have a loud billboard but the
purpose of the billboard is to bring in business.
Ms. Girvan stated her problem is when people stand up
continuously and say they are the senior citizens, we are the
loudest voice in this town.
Ms. Girvan stated last week she had a Councilmember, a City
Manager and a County Councilmember in their establishment for
dinner for an hour and a half. She asked City Manager Hooper
what the majority of her customers age was when he was there.
city Manager Hooper stated they were all older than him. Mayor
Schmidt stated he saw everything from age 20 to age 80 in there.
Page -13-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Ms. Girvan stated she provides all year long 10 cent wings and
$5.95 steak for senior citizens in this town and there are many
who come there. She further spoke about bringing in Bikers from
Daytona but there are also thousands in this City that come to
attend her events.
Ms. Girvan stated she is the only one abiding by the City's rules
and now feels she is being harassed. She has a citizen that
drives up to her establishment every time she has an event in his
golf cart, which is illegal for him to drive up her street.
Every time she has an event, he comes to her business and parks
on her street, on her property with his decibel meter. If he has
to come from Riverside Drive to her establishment to hear the
music on his decibel meter, is she bothering him at his place or
is he bothering her at hers. When do her rights get protected
from these people? Every time she has been asked to comply, she
has complied. For these people to stand up here and continually
say that she has operated for six months, against the City
ordinances and for nobody to stand and protect her, now she feels
she is being harassed by these residents. If she is not
protected by the City, who is going to protect her rights?
Ms. Girvan stated her daughter has been in the newspaper because
of Mr. Martinez several times. She would like Mr. Martinez to
come to her house and see her birth certificate because Mr.
Martinez is the first one on her suits for harassment because her
thirteen year old daughter has to hear about it from her friends
from school.
Ms. Girvan stated there is a noise ordinance that says now that
they can have 65 decibels until 10 p.m. but they are enacting a
special activity ordinance that says she can't do anything past
sunset so why bother having a decibel level until 9 p.m. or 10
p.m.
Ms. Girvan stated she was issued a license last July that said
outdoor entertainment permitted. Based on that license, in
August she bought an $80,000 lot next to her. One week ago, she
got a voided license in the mail. The license isn't up for
renewal until September but her license was ripped away from her.
She now has a $150,000 piece of property, due to clearing,
mulching and fencing, that she can't use. She stated she would
seriously think about every resident in this town. She feels
nothing she does is good enough.
Patty Moody, 337 Schooner Ave, she attended the Pudding Wrestling
at the No Name Saloon about three years ago. She was quite upset
to see so many really inebriated people there. When they left
and went to a restaurant and they didn't see much of a police
presence. She spoke about the Octoberfest in Germany and nobody
driving drunk.
Gene Empter, 513 Ports ide Lane, stated he doesn't have a problem
with the No Name being a good neighbor. He feels the issue is
special events and what those special events will do for and to
the City of Edgewater. He feels this issued needs to be
considered more than any other.
Mr. Empter feels the issue in the ordinance does create a special
situation for those particular bars that operate. They were
given an occupational license for a certain operation. This
ordinance then gives them the right to go far beyond that. He
feels that is extremely relevant. He feels it is also relevant
in terms of the attractions that will be drawn as a result of the
granting of special events activities.
Page -14-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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....,
Mr. Empter feels the extra days should be eliminated that are
associated with this. He spoke about further restricting the
number of bars that would come into this situation and this being
upsetting to bars that would want to do this.
Mr. Empter stated the Council has a responsibility to look at the
situation in terms of what is done to Edgewater and what is done
for Edgewater. He encouraged the Council to act as a guardian of
the community and to use their good judgement in terms of what is
best for the community.
Mayor Schmidt closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter asked how to take care of the sunset issue.
City Manager Hooper stated he thinks the appropriate way is a
time period in there. If Council wants, they can do that at the
second reading. He feels they would be looking very close to the
9 p.m. schedule.
There was a brief discussion regarding what the County does.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about businesses that are vested and
new businesses coming in. She feels that happens in many
instances when zoning changes.
Councilman Brown asked if a bar is built in the County where they
are doing outside entertainment and in the future they annex into
Edgewater will they also be considered grand fathered in or will
they have to stop doing outdoor music. City Manager Hooper
stated if they are an existing facility, they would have vested
rights to continue what they are doing today.
Mayor Schmidt stated if they annex in, they would have to follow
our rules. City Manager Hooper informed him that is correct.
They are vested as far as use. They are entitled to do the
activities but it must fall under the City's parameters.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about changing County zoning
it comparable with City zoning when someone annexes in.
Manager Hooper explained they annex first, then they go
land use and a zoning process.
to make
City
through a
Councilwoman Lichter made mention if a business is in Edgewater
and they purchase property that is in the County, which rules do
they follow. city Manager Hooper informed her that property
would have to be annexed in order to expand.
Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated she noticed the attorney
wasn't here tonight. You are talking about things that are very
legal. She feels the Council is going down a slippery slope
because they are talking about setting prices on people's
undeveloped property and they are saying beforehand what you are
going to let them or not let them do when they come in. She was
upset because there was no Attorney present. She feels they
probably wouldn't be here tonight if they had an attorney in the
beginning. Councilwoman Lichter stated he will be here at the
next meeting.
Councilman vincenzi asked if this has been sent to Planning &
zoning because he never received any feedback from them. City
Manager Hooper stated the comments made by the members that
responded are in the Council's package.
Charlene Zeese, Ports ide Lane, member of the Planning & zoning
Board, read her comments with regard to the 4th draft of the
special Activity Ordinance.
Page -15-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Anton Heeb, 616 N. Riverside Drive, member of the Planning &
Zoning Board, presented comments with regard to the Special
Activity Ordinance Draft #4. He feels any request for a special
activity permit should go before the Planning & zoning Board. He
feels the two ten-day special events should be eliminated from
the special events part of the ordinance. He doesn't feel that
having one business or one group of businesses should have an
advantage over any other in having special consideration. He
feels the ten-day events appear to be a special consideration for
only one group of businesses.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked where they are on the sunset issue.
City Manager Hooper feels they are looking at a time of 9 p.m.
Councilman vincenzi thinks what he hears people saying is there
are a few businesses that will profit from this. He would say
that probably a better revision would be to eliminate the two
extra one-day events during each six month period and just leave
it for the two big ones. He feels the big questions are are they
looking out to protect the quality of life for the people that
live in Edgewater or are they looking to develop a good vision
for the future of Edgewater and he feels they have to compromise
and help the businesses survive.
Mayor Schmidt asked if they eliminate the two one-day events,
could they apply for other charitable events. City Manager
Hooper feels they would have to put that in.
Councilman Brown felt that would be a good idea.
Councilwoman Lichter stated what she wanted the extra days for
originally was only charity events and putting that qualifying
statement on it. Councilman Vincenzi questioned there being an
objection by the Attorney last time. city Manager Hooper stated
he wanted clarification on what that meant.
city Manager Hooper feels if the Council is interested in having
those that have charity type fund raisers, he would need to put
that in so that is clear ground rules for everybody.
Mayor Schmidt asked if they can vote on this tonight with some of
the changes but that change in particular they can have at the
second reading with the Attorney here. City Manager Hooper
stated yes and if they have a problem at the second reading, they
can continue it until it is right.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the charities themselves could
apply for those days. City Manager Hooper stated he would think
that is what they would like to see.
Mayor Schmidt stated if the charity applies and it is a non-
profit they have a tendency to waive fees for non-profit but if
it is a charitable event big enough to cause a few headaches,
there needs to be a process there that is paid for.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they have the discretion to eliminate
for anybody or not.
City Manager Hooper stated a portion of the fees they
historically have waived have been the application fees.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2002-0-05 with the
exception that under the special activity permit requirements,
21-37.03 (2) that the number of special events is reduced to up
to one ten-day period between January and June 30th and up to one
ten-day period July 1st through December 1st eliminating the two
individual one day events for each six month period and to make
the change of eliminating sunset requirement and make it
consistent from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m., second by Councilwoman Rhodes.
Page -16-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
""""
.....,
city Manager Hooper asked if he is including the ability to come
back and ask for charitable events. Councilman Vincenzi informed
him yes.
Mayor Schmidt stated you want to set a number on those.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested no more than two in a given time.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
CONSENT AGENDA
A. Annual Authorization - Mayor or City Manaqer's authorization
for East Volusia Mosquito Control district to make low level
aerial inspection and spray fliqhts
B. Recreation/Cultural Services Board Appointments (2) -
Councilwoman Lichter and Mayor Schmidt to consider the
recommendation of the Board to appoint Joe Fishback and Gerald
Balz to fill two vacancies
C. citizen Code Enforcement Board Appointment - Councilwoman
Lichter to consider the recommendation of the Board to reappoint
Ben DelNiqro for another three (3) year term
Councilwoman Rhodes asked to pull Item C off the Consent Agenda.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Item A & B on the Consent
Agenda, second by Councilman Brown. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilwoman Rhodes spoke about there being a lot of applications
and questioned how come the other applicants don't get a chance
to serve.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke to Russell Baugher who has had an
application on file since 1992 and is still willing to serve. He
has never been interviewed by Code Enforcement. She feels there
is a time when they should rotate and give others a chance.
Mayor Schmidt asked if this is something they can put on the next
agenda. City Manager Hooper stated there is a work session he
wants to talk about under reports and this is one of the items
regarding how you fill these positions.
Councilman Vincenzi spoke about when he recommended the boards
review the applications. He thinks they need to do something
with regard to developing some new policy by rotating positions.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on how board appointments were
made in the past.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to appoint Mr. Russell Baugher III to
the citizen Code Enforcement Board, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
George Ann Keller, 3039 Unity Tree Drive, informed the Council
they at one time wanted to interview Mr. Baugher but whenever
they tried to contact him he was unavailable. At the Code Board
meeting last week, they had the applications in front of them and
that was the gentleman they had asked before to come in for an
interview so they recommended his name as corning before Council
as a recommendation that they would like him to corne in for an
interview at their next board meeting and the other gentleman was
Andy Anderson who was recommended by them previously but when he
got on to the Ad Hoc Committee, they didn't feel he could be on
two at the same time and that it would be better for him to
decide what he wanted because they needed someone that was going
to be there in their best interest for the community so he backed
off of that.
Page -17-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002
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Ms. Keller stated Mr. DelNigro told her to tell Frank that he
resigned. Councilwoman Lichter stated his term is over May 16th.
Ms. Keller spoke about being short members.
Mayor Schmidt asked to have another item on the Consent Agenda.
Let's get their board up so they can do their job since that is a
problem they are having.
OTHER BUSINESS
There was no other business to be discussed at this time.
OFFICER REPORTS
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
Legal Assistant Matusick had nothing at this time.
city Manager
1) Status of old hospital/Conte buildinq at 509 N. Ridqewood
Avenue
City Manager Hooper presented an update on the Conte building at
509 N Ridgewood Ave. and described the process to make sure that
is what Council wants to do. Once they start the process, it
will not come back before Council.
City Manager Hooper feels the building should be demolished. He
also commented on liens.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if there is anything nearby that would
prevent Fire Chief Barlow from having another training session.
City Manager Hooper stated it can turn into that once it is
condemned. He spoke about having to worry about lead, pathogens
and asbestos and testing that has to be done.
City Manager Hooper informed Council unless they tell him not to
proceed, it is heading toward condemnation.
2) Update of YMCA/Pool Contract
This item was discussed earlier on the agenda.
3) Budqet Schedule
City Manager Hooper informed the Council he would like to hold a
Work Session on April 22nd to go over goals and priorities and
talk of budgetary before the staff tries to put the budget
together.
It was the consensus of the Council to hold the Work Session at
6:30 p.m.
CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
There were no citizen comments at this time.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes
moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 11:10 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page -18-
Council Regular Meeting
April 1, 2002