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11-17-2011 - Special a CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING NOVEMBER 17, 2011 4:30 P.M. COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Special Meeting to order at 4:32 p.m. in the Council Chambers. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Present Councilman Justin Kennedy Absent Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Present Councilman Michael Ignasiak Present Councilman Ted Cooper Present City Manager Tracey Barlow Present City Clerk Bonnie Wenzel Present Assistant City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti Present 2. OTHER BUSINESS A. The State Department of Health findings pertaining to the Administrative Complaint regarding patient transport on April 19, 2011 and provide direction to City Staff City Manager Barlow commented on transport services in Volusia County and this being an extremely complex issue. He spoke of the State having a set of statutes /laws that they have to fall within. Part of the Statute gives authority to the local County government if they choose to accept it through a COPCN process and ours has. The County has a lot of regulatory authority within this County to determine who can and cannot transport. The City has been providing advanced life support services since 1995. In 2004 they put into place a combination transport /fire suppression unit. They have been petitioning Volusia County for numerous years and established a contingency transport program, where cities that had the certified ambulances that could transport patients could be certified by the County and receive a permit from the State allowing them to safely transport patients. They got the program up and running on April 7, 2008, which was intended for anytime the ambulance could not respond in a timely fashion. They were allowed to transport under their umbrella. The program was up and running until October 1, 2009, when EVAC ambulance unilaterally withdrew the program and took the permits off the windshields of those units. They went to Volusia County Council and described it was a needed program. They had an incident 1 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 in January 2010 where an asthmatic patient went into full cardiac arrest on scene. They begged for permission to transport and didn't receive it so they didn't transport and subsequently the patient died. On April 19, 2011 there was an incident that got investigated. It was determined by the patient's physician that the patient needed rapid transport to the emergency department. They had the transport capable unit on -scene but didn't have the permit on the window. They affected the transport and immediately notified the proper authorities. It was known to them at that time that the ambulance assigned to the call was responding from the Port Orange /South Daytona area. The County turned it over to the State to investigate. The State did the investigation and came back with some findings. He further spoke of the State looking at a pretty broad State Statute, which is pretty defined. There is one small section that gives a minor exception, which he was going to have Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti elaborate on. The initial findings submitted were a reprimand and a $2,000 fine. They have a 21 day period from the time they received this if they want to appeal those findings to tell them and then they would go through a Chapter 120 hearing process in front of an administrative law judge. He referred to the process they went through with regard to Restoration. He needed to Council to tell them to either pay the fine, close the case and move on or they want to go through the 21 day process. He further commented on a State Statute saying they have to be permitted by the State but they have to get permission from the County that they would allow the State to permit them. He spoke of the City and Fire Chief Cousins both being reprimanded and fined. The second person that was part of the initial treatment crew was also investigated but cleared because Chief Cousins' was the one that gave the direction and authority. Councilman Cooper asked if there was anything in the State and County Statute that is black and white referencing their ambulance now that it is not certified and not certified only because they didn't give them the sticker this time. City Manager Barlow stated the only exception in the County ordinance was a privately owned vehicle not ordinarily used in the business of transporting patients or providing emergency medical services. They could have discontinued treatment and put this individual in a privately owned vehicle and told the spouse to drive like crazy to the ER and the patient would have been in a dangerous situation and been totally compliant. In his opinion, the decisions were made for the right reasons. The root of the issue was they didn't get permission from the County. After this incident within a week and a half the stickers started to get distributed to those other rescue units throughout the County. Councilman Cooper asked if ours was certified. City Manager Barlow explained ours was certified a couple months later but other cities all received their stickers within a week and a half of this incident. The City received their permit on August 31, 2011. 2 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti spoke of two administrative complaints being filed, a two count complaint against the City and a one count complaint against Fire Chief Cousins, which arose out of the same incident. He pointed out the penalties they were seeking under the administrative complaints were a reprimand against the City, who is the ALS provider license and a $2,000 fine, $1,000 per count. With regard to Chief Cousins they were seeking a reprimand in his file and a $1,000 fine. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti then elaborated on the conversation he had with the prosecuting attorney. Based on the conversation he was hopeful the Department of Health would not seek a reprimand against the City relative to counts one or two, seeking a position of a total fine of $1,500 and with regard to Chief Cousins instill a reprimand in the personnel fine and reduce the fine to in the neighborhood of $600. With a high degree of certainty he was confident that a settlement along those lines could be crafted. With regard to an actual Chapter 120 proceeding the Department of Health and the prosecuting attorney have indicated they would vigorously pursue the charges. The argument would be that a permit is required and there was no permit and therefore Edgewater was in violation. They would present the argument that the application was pending for the certification and was held up and through no fault of Edgewater in its best interest of patient health, transport was provided. Councilman Ignasiak asked if there were any provisions under the administrative code for extenuating circumstances. He felt the State appeared to be arguing from a technical point of view rather than a spirit of the law point of view. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti pointed out he would rather have a jury of peers verses an administrative law judge with a technical argument. He read the exemption from the administrative Code which applied more to a mass casualty type event. He further spoke of it not being a matter of time but rather do you have the ambulances to respond to the call. Councilman Ignasiak mentioned if the administrative code was still flawed they are bound by it. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed him under a very technical reading yes. City Manager Barlow then mentioned the ambulance assigned to this incident and responding but coming from a distance away. Councilman Cooper asked Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti if he felt 100% confident that was an offer on the table. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed him he was 99% confident. Councilman Cooper then asked what it would cost the City if they pursued to fight it and if they could increase the fines and restrictions. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained they only sought a $1,000 fine and would be bound by the fine sought within the complaint. He spoke of it being difficult to estimate a litigation 3 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 expenditure but based on his experience he estimated it would cost between $8,000 and $12,000 just on the litigation side. He spoke of other costs that would be incurred. Councilman Ignasiak expressed concern with the State deciding to stay with the technical interpretation of the law and he felt if it went before an administrative judge it would be a lose -lose situation for the City. He expressed concern with Fire Chief Cousins being caught up in this and he felt he made the right call at the right time for the right reasons. He asked if there was any way to mitigate this. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated his best hope was to mitigate it through a resolution. He felt the Department of Health was taking more issue with Chief Cousins because he is the Chief and from their very technical perspective a law was violated. This was his impression based on the conversations he had. Councilman Ignasiak spoke of this coming from the County Medical Director who filed the original complaint but the County Medical Director is having his cake and eating it too because if that transport had not been made and that person went into cardiac arrest and died he felt the County Director would not be saying they made the right move and they did the right thing by not doing anything at all. They would turn around accusing him of not exercising common sense and being bound by a higher duty and having to transport that person there. Councilman Cooper felt it sounded like Councilman Ignasiak was recommending they think hard on the deal that was on the table from the Department of Health. He agreed with Councilman Ignasiak but felt there was a way the Council could address this. He asked if there was anything that could come up later on that could further penalize their Chief for any maneuver that may come in the future. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated with regards to this incident, no. He understood the concerns the Council and many of the citizens of this community have. He presented a scenario to the prosecuting attorney with regard to if this was his mother would he want Chief Cousins there and there was a pause on the line. He asked what they could do if they were inclined to accept the proposed resolution. He assumed Chief Cousins would want his version in the permanent record as to the reason behind the transport. City Manager Barlow told Council to keep in mind there were two violations, the City and Chief Cousins. No matter what decision was made tonight, Chief Cousins could elect to independently fight this one on his own. Mayor Thomas wanted to know what Chief Cousins' intent was. If they fail and pay the fine and then he elects to fight, he felt that wouldn't look good. He has been on his side the whole time. He spoke of there being several cities that felt he was falsely accused. He 4 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 has polled the audience at meetings he has attended and the public has told him they didn't care how they got there; they just wanted to get there the fastest. City Manager Barlow agreed and felt everyone probably agreed he made the right decision. He spoke of the issue being at the County level and not with the State Statute. Mayor Thomas stated he knows the common sense thing to do but the law is specific. If an administrative law judge goes by the technical definition of the law then they are going to lose. Councilwoman Bennington stated she has always been told if a law says shall then it is locked in. If must, can or may is used it is open to interpretation and is not locked in. She pointed out sections in the Administrative Complaint where the terms "must" and "may" are used. She felt there were loopholes in it. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained there are legal arguments, there are principles of statutory construction and there is throwing yourself at the mercy of the court. With regards to the City of Edgewater, there is no reprimand, just the administrative fine and it is a separate case and separate proceeding. Councilwoman Bennington stated what they are doing is addressing the counts against the City. She mentioned the negotiation of a $1,500 fine and no reprimand to the City. What she was bringing up were technicalities she felt needed to be argued in court. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained it would be argued but with no level of confidence on his part. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the County was required by law to report an incident like this. City Manager Barlow informed her if they know about it. Councilwoman Bennington stated what she was getting from this was they want to blame it on somebody. This is something that saved somebody's life and it was the right thing to do morally but legally it wasn't because the County took their transport sticker away from them. City Manager Barlow explained they took the sticker off on October 1, 2009 and they pleaded with them that those services were needed in this County. He spoke of an incident in January 2010 that substantiated their concerns and another incident April 19, 2011 that substantiated one more time that they need these services. Councilwoman Bennington stated if the Medical Director worked for her and he made the decision that Fire Chief Cousins was in error to transport her under these conditions with a doctor telling him to take her he wouldn't be working long. Had she died, the County could be facing all kinds of legal fees and charges. 5 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Councilman Cooper stated supposing the Council unanimously supports Fire Chief Cousins in reference to this they are going to err on the side of life first and foremost and they want to put something in his personnel file that substantiates that and they want to pay all of the fines knowing the City doesn't receive a reprimand but there is something in Fire Chief Cousins' personnel file. He questioned being able to draft a letter attaching it to whatever Fire Chief Cousins included if he were so apt to, could that be done with not getting them in legal difficulties with the final negotiations. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained as far as providing a letter to be placed in the Department of Health file the City Council could absolutely do that and Fire Chief Cousins was invited to do that as well by the Department of Health and they couldn't necessarily stop that. Councilman Cooper questioned if the letter identified they support Fire Chief Cousins and if he did it again they would still support him. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained there could be a letter of support drafted encompassing some of the points he raised limited to this instance. He would want to avoid the impression that they would unconditionally support any behavior. Mayor Thomas asked Fire Chief Cousins what is intent was. Fire Chief Cousins stated he had thought about this long and hard. He doesn't see it the same way as legal staff does but Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti understands how interpretations of things go so he has to lean toward him and take his opinion that the way Fire Chief Cousins view it won't hold much water with the State from a technical standpoint. He felt he did the right thing and at the end of the day it is hard for him to swallow taking any sort of lumps when he doesn't feel like they are deserved. He doesn't have the resources so he doesn't have the opportunity to fight it regardless. Mayor Thomas spoke of having to back up and look the whole process over. He asked Fire Chief Cousins how many years he had with the Edgewater Fire Department. Fire Chief Cousins informed him 22 years with nine of those being volunteer years. He still had seven years to go. Mayor Thomas asked Fire Chief Cousins if the reprimand did go in his file how that would hurt him. Fire Chief Cousins informed him reality was career wise, it wouldn't be that big a deal. His pride is what hurts the most. He felt Volusia County was to blame. They created an environment and opportunity to put them in this situation. He felt pieces of paper and a 25 cent decal were what they were talking about between life and death. If a piece of paper is that important he would fill it out in triplicate and they have done that. They have sent in the form and have continued to be rejected. He felt if they 6 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 want to take on a fight about this situation, the fight is sitting in Deland. Fire Chief Cousins can take his lumps and be done with it. They have a decal and that decal allows them to transport only those patients that are basically in front of them dying. If someone is having chest pains but they aren't dying, he can't take them to the hospital. If someone has a broken hip from a fall in a parking lot, he can't take them to the hospital. Somebody has to view the ticket that wasn't there and say they agree. As far as this issue, it will be pay the fine, try to put his side of the story in it, move on and concentrate on fixing the real problem, which is where his energy is going to be. Councilman Cooper questioned how long the reprimand would stick, when it went away or if it was forever. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti informed him it was there as part of his permanent file and further explained why it was important to put in a letter clarifying the reasoning behind and putting the City's position in there. Councilman Cooper asked if it was strictly with the Department of Health or if it was in his personnel file with the City too. City Manager Barlow informed him it would be in his personnel file with the City too especially if they are going to use public funds to pay the fine. Councilman Ignasiak felt this was a horrible situation but he understood a well crafted addendum along with a support letter from the City that anyone reading that file in the future would easily read between the lines and understand what happened. That Fire Chief Cousins made the right decision and that the State rules strictly on technical points, not on morality points or life points. He felt Fire Chief Cousins needed to present his case in writing and Council needed to do a letter of support reaffirming he made the right decision and just happened to be a victim of circumstance. Councilwoman Bennington felt Fire Chief Cousins' pride should not be hurt. He did the right thing morally. What the State was doing was a technicality. It was brought on by a source that he had no control over. She would be glad to have him rescue her if it came down to that. There is no shame and there should be no pride affected by this. The most important thing was he saved a life. Fire Chief Cousins expressed his appreciation for the support of City staff, Council and the community. He further spoke of putting the people in the community first, which he would continue to do unless he was told otherwise. He spoke of being in this community all his life and treating everybody like they are his own family. Mayor Thomas asked for public comment. The following citizens spoke: 7 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Robert Lott, 2112 S. Riverside Drive, felt this was a classic example as to why John Q citizen has such a distaste and distrust for government and the legal system. This is an absolute no- brainer. He felt they needed to take this fight on. He didn't know what they could do. He suggested getting the public involved through newsprint. He spoke of people thinking it is too expensive to fight it and just giving in, which he felt gave more ammunition to the people who create these situations for them. It is time to take a stand. The City has done it before and succeeded. He suggested they change the law. If it is wrong, it is wrong. He felt they needed to hold the line on this. He felt Councilman Cooper brought up a good compromise but it was just that a compromise. He felt they shouldn't need to read between the lines and should read the actual verbiage. He further expressed his support for Fire Chief Cousins. He felt they needed to stick with him or they won't have guys like Fire Chief Cousins. John Zino, 718 Navigators Way, stated what he heard from Council was overwhelming support for Fire Chief Cousins with regard to what he did, how he performs his services as an employee of the City. He suggested they think about putting together the two - pronged problem. It seems that through mitigation they are willing to relinquish responsibility on the City's part but not on Fire Chief Cousin's part. If he acted within the authority bestowed upon him by the City and did what was right based on their expectations in the performance of his duties, they shouldn't mitigate the City's responsibility but divert his to the City. The City can be culpable of being responsible for his actions since he is employed by the City in good faith and did what they would have done, if that can assist him in getting off the personal hook of a reprimand, it might be worth pursuing. If they accepted a written reprimand as a City and paid the fines as a City and mitigated away his personal responsibility, they could relieve him of that personal responsibility and say he did what they wanted him to do. Fine the City and reprimand the City because they are an entity and he is a person. He felt they needed to look at what the responsibility was as a City Council in protecting him because he did what they would have done and what they wanted him to do and mitigate away his reprimand as opposed to mitigating away the City's reprimand. Councilman Cooper felt that was an excellent suggestion. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained if it was Council's direction for him to make a pass at attempting to craft a resolution along that lines, he saw no legal impediment to that. Councilman Ignasiak commented on police officers and firefighters being held to a different set of standards in the State. He spoke of this being two separate issues that cannot be combined. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti explained had the City had a policy in place that said transport in these vehicles, he didn't think putting the waiver of the reprimand against the City would be as palatable to the 8 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Department of Health. There was no policy they could point to so the person who made the decision on the scene is the culpable party from their perspective. Shane Overly, 1640 Tatum Boulevard, applauded Council for their political courage. Standing up for the Chief is very admirable. This doesn't just happen in Edgewater. This happens throughout the County on a regular basis all the time. The fight is in Deland, which is where this is all stemming from. He met with the County Chairman today and he denied he had ever heard anything of the City requesting for this transport. Spencer Hathaway, 2647 Chester Avenue, New Smyrna Beach, read a statement on behalf of Jim Hathaway, who was in Orlando and not available, expressing support for Fire Chief Cousins. Jack Hayman, 3003 Travelers Palm Drive, former Mayor of Edgewater and former Volusia County Councilman, informed Chief Cousins he has endorsed him and will continue to endorse his decision to do what was right. Everybody knew it was coming. It was just a matter of time in which jurisdiction it would occur. The City provided him the where with all to transport the patient. When they acquired that piece of equipment and that piece of apparatus it was acquired for the explicit purpose to do just what was done with it. He expressed his disappointment of his colleagues and the report on Chairman Bruno astounds him because he has been present with him and his other colleagues on the County Council and it is a matter of record that they discussed transport and the numerous problems with EVAC that failed repeatedly to be at the right place at the right time in order to save a life. In 2009, they had great discussions about advanced life support and transporting. All along the Volusia County administration were very concerned about the RCC with the partnership with New Smyrna, Port Orange and Edgewater being on their own for transport. EVAC was one of the major sources of contention because EVAC did not want to and has not wanted to and will not cooperate with the municipalities in any way shape or form. When it comes down to the bottom line, it is the dollars they hope to get for moving a person from point A to point B. That's the issue. The public doesn't know that and needs to know what is going on. He further questioned if Council knew how many fatalities and deaths they have had that could have been saved had they been transported in an expeditious way. He then spoke of an incident in Sugar Mill where a man got up to talk that had a medical condition. EVAC didn't make it and the individual passed away. How many incidents do they have to have? They don't care. Their actions now demonstrate to him that they don't care how many patients they lose. All they care about is EVAC making the call and EVAC doing the bill. From 2009 on he worked hard with his colleagues on the County Council to represent all of the fire departments in Volusia County and their requests to transport. It was started by the Daytona Beach firefighters who are still working 9 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 diligently. The union moved together and consolidated that request. They have been stonewalled all along and will continue to be stonewalled. Why? The public needs to ask that question. It is costing them a level of service that they cannot and will not tolerate. It is costing them lives. Mayor Thomas stated he is tired of the State and County bullying them. He wants to fight because they vote. They have the power. He felt they should fight it. Councilman Ignasiak agreed with Fire Chief Cousins that the fight is in Deland. That is a fight they should take on that he thought they would prevail in the end and win. He felt the State was entirely different level, which he felt was a fight they couldn't win. He encouraged the Council to support the Attorney in seeking probably the easiest and least painful way out of it as possible so they can focus all their attention in Deland where the real change needed to be made. Councilman Cooper agreed with Mr. Hayman. He felt they needed to put this whole thing to bed and take the settlement but he would like to take any legal fees they would have invested to fight this on a State level to turn around and put the same effort and monies forward to challenge the legislative legalese to get it changed. They have to get the verbiage changed in this law. He would like to see them work the other cities as well. At one time they had them collectively on board to get these things stated the correct way. Mayor Thomas stated to get it changed they have to fight. He then pointed out six of the seven County Councilmembers were coming up for election. He felt they needed to be heard now. He was proud of the stand made by Mr. Hathaway. Councilwoman Bennington felt they needed to take the fight up with the County. The fact that the County Chairman said he has never heard of their application is ridiculous. Councilman Cooper asked what was going on right now and where he saw them where they could pinpoint their efforts and get some outcome. City Manager Barlow commented on going through an ordinance amendment process where they amended the County ordinance. He identified the big part of that amendment process that created a hardship on us was where they require them to provide a closest unit response outside of our area without compensation. He was extremely active in trying to defeat that ordinance and at that time County Council marched on. He felt the challenge at that point was they unilaterally only listened to their staff, representing the staff verses representing the County. This was his personal concern. He encouraged the Council to reach out to their County Councilmember colleagues and communicate their concerns as he only deals with the County on a staff level. 10 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Councilman Cooper asked if they could draft an amendment that would correct this law on a County level. He made mention of the thousands of dollars the City has put up to have the ambulances they have. He asked if they could collectively get the other cities involved and start an advertising campaign against this. If they don't get it in the public's eye it doesn't go anywhere. Councilwoman Bennington questioned doing this at the Florida League of Cities. Councilman Cooper stated they could but felt it wouldn't go very far. City Manager Barlow pointed out they had completed resolutions in support of a contingency transport. He thought there were three resolutions out there and they have sent those. They have to go face to face with the County colleagues and they need to hear from them. Councilman Ignasiak felt there was another point of pressure they were missing which was the Medical Director who writes the medical protocols and sets the opinions on when transport can be made and can't be made. If he makes a revision in his protocols it happens tomorrow irregardless of whether the County wants it or not. Mayor Thomas pointed out he works for the County Council. Councilman Cooper pointed out the problem came from the Medical Director. Councilman Cooper was for drafting an amendment that stated it as black and white as they could and he was for advertising it and bringing it to the public's eye. City Manager Barlow suggested he could have Fire Chief Cousins draft that amendment to his recommendation of where the County ordinance needed to be amended. The Council would adopt it by resolution and send it to the County Council. They would need to follow up and have those conversations with them as well. Councilwoman Bennington felt one of them needed to approach every City and give them that resolution and get as many of the cities as possible to adopt it and then take it to the County Council. She was talking strategy at this point. Councilman Cooper felt it was a good point. Councilman Cooper felt they should put it in the newspapers also. He felt this was an issue that if they brought it to the public they have a better chance of getting the 16 cities to sign a resolution. City Manager Barlow informed Council a motion needed to be made giving direction what they want staff to do with regards to the City. They would need a second motion to address Fire Chief Cousins and if they wanted to do a motion to offer to pay his fines as well and provide staff to assist him with his letter to be filed with this reprimand if he elects to go that direction. 11 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Councilman Cooper made a motion that they follow the Attorney's recommendation on the City's behalf to take the negotiated settlement of the $1,500 and no reprimand on the City's record, second by Councilwoman Bennington. The MOTION CARRIED 3 -1. Councilman Cooper made a motion to pick up the fees for Mr. Cousins' fine so it doesn't personally cost him anything out of his pocket. Not that they accept the reprimand but they allow Mr. Cousins' to put in his side of the story and he would like to see a drafted letter signed by the entire Council stating their position of support for Mr. Cousins as they take care of this issue as well, second by Councilwoman Bennington. Councilman Ignasiak stated that proviso letter should not refer to any future incidents in a position the City would take should such incidents occur and that it will only deal with their support on a previous issue that Chief Cousins was involved with. Councilman Cooper confirmed Assistant City Attorney Ciochetti would bring it back for final verification. Assistant City Attorney Ciochetti informed him absolutely. Councilwoman Bennington stated the only reason she was voting for these was because she would rather take that money and fight where the problem is, not fight something they can't win. The MOTION CARRIED 4 -0. Assistant City Attorney Ciochetti stated he took that as direction to go ahead and present at the next Council meeting a final settlement agreement with those numbers in it to enter into the negotiations. If the numbers happen to change he would come back for further authority. While inefficient it will at the same time encourage the Department of Health to accept those numbers rather than give them broad discretion. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they could put a cap and amend the motion to make it no more than the original fine of $2,000 for the City and $1,500 for Fire Chief Cousins. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti stated it couldn't be any more than the original fine. He was fine. He thought it was the Department of Health's way of backing off. Councilman Cooper made a motion that they as a Council invest financial and legalese to address and record an amendment to the County's motion to fix this problem. He believed the input needed to come from Fire Chief Cousins and ex -Fire Chief Barlow who has been in 12 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 every argument over the whole issue of transport and RCC and that they go after that and even to the extent where they will spend some of that money for advertising to get the public aware. Assistant City Attorney Ciocchetti didn't feel a motion was necessary. This is an on -going issue that could be addressed at future council meetings. Councilman Ignasiak wanted to know what they were getting into before he decided to start expending public funds. Councilman Cooper felt they needed to address this as expenses come up, look at each issue and where they stand. He agreed they weren't here to spend taxpayer money frivolously but they needed to be diligent. Mayor Thomas didn't think it was frivolous if they were trying to save lives. You can't put an amount of money on that. Councilwoman Bennington felt the Council individually are committed to this fight and they will do whatever they have to do individually to represent Edgewater wherever it is necessary. Mayor Thomas offered to go to each City Council meeting. Councilwoman Bennington wanted them all to be a part of it. Councilman Cooper felt they needed to formulate a plan of attack, which he hoped the City Manager would get behind them on. He trusted the City Attorney to look at the legalese and draft them an amendment. Linda Walsh, 731 Navigators Way, asked if the State was already involved in that they issued the fine and if the State trumped the County when it comes to laws. Why leave the State out of this. They could be an ally and override the County. She felt the State would be able to help many of the cities. Councilman Cooper explained if the County application could be amended and the legalese within that, they wouldn't be breaking the State Statute but working within it. They could be an ally because they want to side on the side of life safety first as well. They will try and use every avenue they can get their hands on. Fire Chief Cousins again expressed his appreciation for the support from the community and specifically that the Council has given him and his entire department. It's not taken for granted. 3. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Ignasiak moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 5:50 p.m. 13 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011 Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer, CMC Attest: APPROVED: City of Edgewater, Florida Bonnie Wenzel, City Clerk Michael L. Thomas, Mayor 14 Council Special Meeting November 17, 2011