11-21-1991 CITY OF EDGEWATER
BUILDING TRADES REGULATORY AND APPEALS BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 21, 1991
7:00 P.M.
The Regular meeting of the Building Trades Regulatory and Appeals Board
was called to Order on Thursday, November 21, 1991 at 7:00 P.M. in the
Conference Room of City Hall by Chairman Robert Howard.
ROLL CALL:
Members present were Lester Yarnell, John Ciaffoni, Gary Butt, and Robert
Howard. Member Les Ogram arrived 7:02 P.M. and Member Douglas Cole
arrived at 7:05 P.M. Michael Nelson was absent. Also present were Chief
William Vola, Electrical Inspector Frank Conrey and Janet Morris
Recording Secretary.
The Minutes of the July 11, 1991 Regular Meeting of the Building Trades
Regulatory and Appeals Board were submitted for approval. Mr. Yarnell
moved to accept the minutes as written. Mr. Ciaffoni seconded. Motion
CARRIED 5-0. Mr. Cole was not yet present.
NEW BUSINESS:
Chairman Howard stated the next item on the agenda was discussion
regarding City Occupational License for Home Improvement/Handyman.
Chief Vola stated he would like the Board to consider a future meeting to
make a recommendation to City Council on Unlicensed Activity and the
Handyman/Home Maintenance Occupational License. He read some ads from
the Pennysaver and the News Journal and added these people are not
licensed to do Electrical or Air Conditioning work but they are advertising
they can. He mentioned a maintenance company which has a Home
Maintenance/Handyman License. He stated the individual could not do
plumbing work, electrical work, or A/C work. He added the Home
Maintenance/Handyman License is not defined and no other communities
offer a Home Maintenance/Handyman Occupational License. Chief Vola
stated he believed it started out as someone to rehang windows, fix
screens kind of "Husband For a Day" type things. He added as the Board
can see this is getting into the Trades and doing work that involves safety
hazards. Chief Vola stated he was seeking the Board's consideration of
drafting a request to Council to abolish this particular Occupational
License. He stated this license was difficult to do anything with because
it falls in the cracks. He added they can advertise that they are Licensed
because they are, but they are not supposed to be doing that kind of work.
Mr. Butt stated he could see a use for this type of individual to do things
for people who are handicapped or can't do it, but not to that extent and
they would have to come up with a hard definition of it to leave it in
there. Mr. Butt asked what the policy would be if Council decided to
eliminate that as a License, when these people come to renew would they
be out of luck. Chief Vola stated that would be correct and we would have
to send them a letter to that effect. He added if they wish to engage in
construction the State is very clear that you have to get licensed to
perform that trade.
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Chairman Howard stated the days of the Handyman are gone and he was
especially concerned with the electrical. Chairman Howard stated to give
these people a chance would be to notify them they have the opportunity to
come before the Board and plead their case before the Board makes a
recommendation to Council to abolish the entire term "Handyman." He
added to consider setting a definite time for them to come before this
Board and then make a recommendation to Council. Chief Vola stated we
have 22 City Occupational Licenses for Handyman and we could notify
them by Certified Mail to be here for the next meeting. Chairman Howard
stated it should be before the next meeting; they should call a special
meeting for it in January to give them plenty of notice. Chief Vola stated
the Board needs to hear both sides of the issue. Chairman Howard stated
they also needed the time to do serious research.
Mr. Ciaffoni asked what the catagory listed as "Other" was. He stated that
people would go from the Handyman Category to that one. Chief Vola
stated the "Other" category had been discussed with the City Clerk and it
wouldn't be there next year it would only be there for other Licensed
Contractor categories such as the Specialty Categories.
There was discussion concerning how to obtain an Occupational License
and unlicensed people advertising in the newspaper.
Chairman Howard stated the Board needed to get the word out to the public
as soon as possible and the only way they can do it is to get them to a
meeting and let them know what the Board has decided to 'do. Chief Vola
stated the hearing they are talking about with the Handyman's License may
generate enough interest that the newspapers may come. Chairman
Howard stated he would like the press to be called as it is an open forum.
Chief Vola stated the press could be asked to come; whether or not they
come is up to them. Chairman Howard would like to make a special
invitation to City Council Members. Chief Vola stated he wasn't sure
what the Sunshine Law was on that as Councilmembers are not allowed to
be at bid openings but he is sure Ms. Storey, City Attorney, could answer
that for them.
Chairman Howard stated he would like to know informally how each of the
Board members felt about doing away with the term Handyman. Mr. Ogram
stated he had a two sided opinion; he is for doing away with it as far as
trades that require licenses but what about someone who goes out and
steam cleans mobile homes or something like that. He stated there are
things that fall under a Handyman Category and there is a place for them.
Chairman Howard stated they could strike out Handyman and go to Other
and phrase that. Mr. Yarnell stated under the Others they could be
specified as to what he does. Mr. Cole stated the way it is now someone
can do anything under that license. Mr. Yarnell stated he gets an open book
when he gets that permit. Mr. Ciaffoni stated he agreed with Mr. Ogram
that it should be left open for someone to clean gutters. Chairman
Howard stated it could go under "Other" as maintenance and cleaning. Mr.
Butt agreed with Mr. Ciaffoni. Chairman Howard stated for himself, he
was all for the abolishment of the Home Improvement/Handyman. He
stated he would like to have that put under the title of "Other " and have
the City Attorney expand on that verbiage.
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Chief Vola stated as an alternative they could also have the Board decide
on a definition and description on exactly what a Handyman is and then if
the Council won't delete it they have a definition already prepared.
Chairman Howard stated they didn't want to cut anyone out of their
business. Mr. Cole stated they should send letters to the license holders
to tell them what they are planning on doing. Chairman Howard stated
they would have to send registered letters to the 22 people that have
these licenses and put an ad in the paper announcing they will hear
discussion regarding Home Handyman Occupational Licenses on a certain
date and time. He stated under "Other" a definition would be: Any trade
that is in conjuction with maintenance, cleaning and other non-
construction elements in which the life safety and welfare of the general
public is not endangered. Chief Vola stated they might want to replace
"general public" with "customer." Chairman Howard stated it should be
broad enough to cover the full gammet; residential through commercial so
the Ordinances would cover everything.
It was the consensus of the Board they have a problem and are leaning
toward deleting Home Improvement/Handyman out of the licensing section
of the Ordinance and to put into the definition of "Other" a type of wording
that would allow trade not involved in actual contruction (repair,
remodeling of physical elements of a building); any trade that is in
conjuction with maintenance, cleaning and the like period and just close it
right there letting the attorney use the correct verbiage.
Mr. Butt moved Doug Cole and Bob Howard be considered a committee of
two to represent the Board before the City Council. Mr. Ciaffoni seconded.
Motion CARRIED 6-0.
Mr. Ogram moved to delete the term Home Improvement/Handyman from
the Edgewater Code under Occupational License taxes and add on to the
term "Other": Any trade that is in conjuction with maintenance, cleaning,
and the like. That the current Licensed Handymen in the City of Edgewater
will be notified by Registered Mail that there will be a Building Trades
Regulatory and Appeals Board Meeting for open discussion before the
recommendation of this Board is forwarded to Council. Mr. Cole seconded.
Chief Vola stated it might need to go under another section of the
Occupational License other than construction as it would be considered
maintenance and cleaning. Mr. Butt agreed they needed to be under another
classification. Chief Vola stated they are not construction related and
they shouldn't be under subcontractors.
Chairman Howard suggested there is another way to do it, the motion can
be retracted and ammended to delete both Home Improvement/Handyman
and Other. Mr. Butt stated you have to have Other in there. Chairman
Howard stated to take them both out and let Council and the City Attorney
tell the Board where this goes into another section and get it out of the
construction part. Mr. Ogram withdrew his motion. Mr. Cole withdrew his
second. All Board members were in favor of the withdrawal of the motion.
Mr. Ogram moved to remove 43-H and 20 Home Improvement/Handyman
Catagory and Other catagory from the Subcontractor section of the
Occupational License taxes. Mr. Yarnell seconded. Motion CARRIED 6-0.
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Electrical Inspector Frank Conrey suggested they write to the other
Boards to find out their reasons for deleting Home Improvement/
Handyman from their Codes. Chief Vola stated he would take care of that.
Other Business:
Mr. Ogram discussed the use of a Master's License in a company. He stated
it says that a Journeyman or whomever must be under the direct control or
supervison of a Master Electrician and he knows of at least three
companies that work here and in New Smyrna whose Master Electricians
are either far removed from their particular location or retired and could
care less what goes on. He stated the people are using their licenses as a
means of doing business. There was discussion regarding companies using
Master Electrican Licenses to pull permits when the Master is not present
and also the procedures how to report them. Mr. Ogram stated the
licensing departments tell the people what they need for them to be legal.
He stated it is showing people how to get away with what they are doing.
Chairman Howard appointed a Committee of three being: Mr. Ogram, Mr.
Yarnell, and Mr. Ciaffoni to see if they can't come up with a way to keep
companies from using a Master's License to do business without the
Master being present. Chief Vola stated he would help from the City's end.
Chairman Howard stated when things are not done the correct way, the
legal way, these people are endangering especially in the electrical field.
He stated they should have a report for the next Regular Meeting. There
was discussion that each job should have a letter stating the person can
pull a permit for that particular job and not just a letter in the file
stating a person can pull any permits.
There was discussion regarding the City Code Book and some of the items
being out of date. Chairman Howard stated the whole thing should be gone
through.
Adjournment
There being no more business to come before the Board at this time
Chairman Howard asked for motion to adjourn. Mr. Cole so moved. Mr. Butt
seconded.
Meeting adjourned 8:34 P.M.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By:
Lisa R. Warren
Board Secretary
Iw
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