08-09-1993 - Public Meeting CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
PUBLIC MEETING
AUGUST 9, 1993
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Hayman called the Public Meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Jack Hayman Present
Councilman Kirk Jones Absent
Councilwoman Louise Martin Present
Councilman Michael Hays Present
Councilman David Mitchum Present
City Attorney Krista Storey Present
City Manager George McMahon Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MAYOR'S STATEMENT OF MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the meeting was to hear a presentation and receive
public comments on the proposed City street paving program.
Mayor Hayman asked everyone to sign in so they could keep an accurate
record of how many people were attending the meeting. He commented on
the fact sheet that represented questions and findings that staff had
compiled over a period of time relative to the public paving program
that was available for the public.
Mayor Hayman asked for the public to keep their comments on the topic
of discussion and informed them they would have an opportunity to
provide written questions or remarks and that the comment cards were
in the back of the room.
Mayor Hayman asked the public to come to the podium and identify who
they were as well as their address when addressing the Council.
STAFF PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED STREET PAVING PROGRAM
City Manager McMahon made a staff presentation and turned the meeting
over to Public Works Director Hugh Williams to present an overview of
the program.
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Mr. Williams identified Edgewater had 65 miles of unpaved roads, 50 of
those being in Florida Shores . They were proposing a ten-year program
to undertake six miles a year with the ultimate goal of having all of
the roads in the City paved. He commented on identifying the roads
that have the highest traffic counts and co-mingling that with the
school bus routes from which they could produce a priority list. They
would endeavor to pave as many of those streets in each given year as
they would have money enough to pave.
Mr. Williams further spoke of needing to get permits from FDOT and the
St. Johns River Water Management District.
Mr. Williams identified they would then go to a conceptual design and
then a final design after receiving the required permits . He further
commented on doing this job either based on cost per mile or bid the
entire job. He felt staff could probably do some of the work in-house
which would help reduce the cost. The goal going into this was to
start somewhere in July 1994 and to be out before the school buses run
in September.
He then referred to the list showing the roads in Edgewater that were
not paved.
City Engineer Kyle Fegley made a presentation regarding the technical
aspect synopsis of the roadway construction, what constitutes a road
and what the final product would be.
Mr. Fegley identified the various layers that make a road. The useful
life of a road should be about 15 - 20 years . He then commented on
the plan layout which showed a typical intercept with a swale. He
spoke of some of the side streets within Florida Shores having to have
shell type retention ponds, which was a St. Johns River Water
Management District requirement. He further commented on the
characteristics of the roadway and City employees doing some of the
work to save on the cost.
Mr. Fegley then commented on the roadway composition he had designed
which he felt was an equitable design for 20 years.
Director of Community Development Mark Karet commented on the costs
and payment methods associated with the road paving program. City
Manager McMahon further identified if the City went into this project
it would count on an assessment at the time the benefits were
occurring and would be assessed in the year it started and each year
the City would have to collect its third through tax means . Once it
was paid in full it would be up to the Council to lower the tax rate.
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Mayor Hayman spoke of this being an extremely controversial issue
which was why they were soliciting input and ideas from the citizens .
City Manager McMahon then commented on the statement of future taxes
and described as long as the program existed and the City had to put
up its 1/3 it would be proposed that the 34 mill tax remain in effect.
PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS
Mayor Hayman identified how the public questions and comments would be
handled.
David Molnar, 2117 Travelers Palm Drive, spoke of paying for the road
a few years ago. He didn' t understand why he had to pay for a road he
had already paid for. He spoke of every resident paying for their own
frontage. He suggested doing away with some of the political high
paid jobs.
Mayor Hayman asked the residents to confine their remarks to the
paving program.
Mr. Molnar informed him the paving they had right now was not
satisfactory. Mayor Hayman questioned this being an area that was
already paved and under the present CIP proposal that would be repaved
to equal or better conditions . He further identified all of the
residents would be subject to an ad valorem tax increase but those
that lived on roads that were already paved would not have another
road assessment. Councilwoman Martin explained the ad valorem tax was
a general tax that would pay the City' s third and that comes from
everyone.
Don Castner, 124 Hardin Place and 3036 Mango Tree Drive, spoke on
wanting to see Mango Tree Drive paved. He further spoke of what he
considers to be an isolated subdivision concept and a unified city
concept. He spoke of the dust being generated from the dirt streets
in Florida Shores and how important peoples' health is with regard to
respiratory conditions .
Randall Hess, 2019 Kumquat Drive, was willing to pay whatever it takes
to get the roads paved. He spoke of the site next to him making the
situation worse due to construction equipment coming in and out of the
property multiple times every day. He spoke of the damage being done
to their houses and vehicles and that whatever it would cost was
chicken scratch compared to the long term damage. He felt everybody
needed to look at the big picture.
Dominick Fazzone, 302 Paradise Lane, spoke of building sewers in
Florida Shores being first brought up to the Council in 1985 and
because of the opposition the Council didn' t do it until three or four
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years later and it cost them a lot more money. He further commented
on the concerns of older people that are on social security. He spoke
of the city coming up with a plan that the rest of the city shall
donate which he felt they should do. He felt the City should be
unified and not divided. He further spoke of the increase to the
taxes being minimal .
Tom Cobb, 3414 Mango Tree Drive, spoke of not being able to open their
windows because of the dust and about the cost for paving increasing
every year. They want the road paved now and don' t want to be on the
tail end of the ten years it is going to take.
Jude Rutten, 3307 Willow Oak Drive, questioned why everyone did not
receive notification of this meeting. Mayor Hayman informed him on
Thursday and Friday city employees began distributing notices to every
household in the City. Mr. Rutten felt that was an inadequate way of
trying to notify their constituents there was a very important meeting
going on.
City Manager McMahon informed him the decision to have the meeting was
made a week ago. They took the least expensive way they could. The
only other way to communicate was by mail which never would have
reached them as fast as the way they did it and that it had been in
the newspaper every day for the past week. Mr. Rutten spoke of
getting the information through word of mouth and people not being
given the opportunity to be there. He questioned why they didn' t plan
better.
Councilman Hays further explained coming into budget time, they
thought since this was such a contested issue it would be a good idea
to have a public hearing and address just this issue. He further
commented on making every attempt they could to notify people the most
cost effective way they could. He felt they made a sincere effort.
Mr. Rutten felt the Council should look ahead and think ahead. He
asked how much money would be saved when they get the streets done by
the people who were scraping the roads. City Manager McMahon informed
him it would depend on how many miles of road would be paved. Mr.
Rutten informed him what the annual cost was for what they were doing.
City Manager McMahon informed him the figure would be about $300, 000 a
year if they were all paved at the same time. That money would be
turned back into the maintenance and resurfacing of the road.
Mr. Rutten commented on this being a ten year project with the streets
lasting approximately 15 to 20 years . He felt it was silly to do this
for ten years and when they get done they will start all over
somewhere else. He further spoke of the streets that will be paved
now, in ten years from now the first streets that are done would
deteriorate and would require maintenance.
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Councilman Hays wanted the residents to let him know if they wanted a
road paving project or not.
Mr. Rutten stated he was in favor and that it wouldn' t cost him the
assessment because his road had already been paved. He felt everyone
should be in favor of this because of the dust that was being
generated. He hoped in the future they would take more time in
planning these things, which he felt was poor planning on the City' s
part.
Councilman Jones commented on understanding where the frustration
level was at since this had been going on for a long time. He spoke
of this being part of CIP program and this being part of the whole
plan. He was for it back then but they felt as a Council that was a
big chunk for them to chew. He spoke of the need for input from the
citizens . This paving project got so much opposition so they pulled
it out of the CIP. He spoke of the economy not being the greatest and
not wanting to burden people as it related to a household having
enough coming in to be able to pay for the paving.
Donald Lyon, 2519 Glenwood Drive, was for paving of the roads but
suggested they do it all at once due to the longer they take the more
the cost will increase.
Al Gilbert, 2025 Needle Palm Drive, referred to a newspaper article
from a year ago that identified it would cost them $2, 200 in
assessments . As of August 4, 1993 it is $667 . He suggested if they
wait a couple more years it will cost them even less . He was willing
to pay it back then and was even more willing to pay it now. He then
questioned how much they were going to wind up paying. He felt they
were getting a pretty good deal and maybe they could get a better deal
and suggested they check into it some more.
Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, would like to have paved roads but
all he needed now was a job. He felt the people that were there
tonight seemed to have money but there were a lot of people in town
that didn't have the money. He spoke of what the cost would be now
compared to ten years from now. He questioned if the rich on 12th
Street would get their roads paved first and only pay $600 and the
rest of them that live on Yule Tree will pay $2, 000 ten years from
now. He would love to have his road paved but he can' t afford to have
his road paved and neither can a lot of other people.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, congratulated the Council for
calling a meeting such as this to get input. He was for the streets
being paved but not under the financial situation that was presented.
He spoke of the residents in Edgewater Landing paying for their
streets 100% after which they were dedicated to the City. He spoke of
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the cost being included in the price of their homes, which means they
pay a higher tax base. He was wondering where the fairness of it was .
He was for the roads being paved but felt they should look into a
different way of financing it.
Linda Fetchfield, 3036 Willow Oak Drive, spoke of living on a paved
road but they have to put up with the dirt from the other roads . She
questioned using the money the City receives from the State and
Federal government. She felt there were other ways of making money
besides taxing the people. They have been in Edgewater two years and
don' t have the money to pay for the sewers . They are ready to leave
due to feeling the government here was not fair. She also pointed out
they didn' t get a notice about the meeting and found out by word of
mouth. She felt the people of Edgewater as a whole needed to get
together on this .
City Manager McMahon elaborated on comments made about previous
funding that was received from the Federal, State and County
government. The only funds that existed today were the Community
Development Block Grant money which goes to special targeted people
under the federal guidelines. This year the balance left was
dedicated for people who would not be able to pay any other way
because of low income to hook up to the sewers. The Council asked
that that money be transferred for that purpose. Other than that
there was no federal money nor has there been in approximately 10
years . There was no State money. The only money received was a
sharing of the 22% of the 1/5 cent gas tax that comes from the County
that was distributed amongst 14 cities in Volusia County. Our share
came to slightly more than $200, 000, which was spent on a continuous
basis to maintain roads throughout the City, which doesn' t cover the
maintenance costs for all of the roads.
Roger Miracle, 2121 Willow Oak Drive and Pastor of Friendship Baptist
Church spoke of a letter he sent the City stating he was in favor
personally for paving and that the benefits were worth it for the
church. He further spoke of Hibiscus needing to be graded three times
a week. He commented on speaking with two families in the last month
who were looking for a place to relocate. Both of those families
decided to locate elsewhere because of the conditions of the roads and
the lack of sidewalks.
George Dickerson, 2810 Yule Tree Drive and 2604 Travelers Palm Drive,
was for paving the roads but not the timing of doing it now. He felt
they should have started paving years ago using the money from the
grading of the dirt roads that is being done now and put some of that
money towards paving small sections, which he felt would save in the
long run. If they paved one road five years ago, he felt they would
have had one road less to pay for in the future.
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City Manager McMahon explained they can' t grade and put the money
aside. The residents demand grading of the roads and watering them
down. He further commented on if Florida Shores had been annexed with
all of the roads paved they wouldn't have this problem. When a new
subdivision comes into the City they are required to provide paved
roads and stormwater drainage, which was not the case when Florida
Shores was annexed. He spoke of having a permit outstanding with a
state regulatory agency for a period of six years and of that time
they have five years remaining. When that permit expires they would
go through an extremely costly process to have another permit issued
and the requirements between now and then would change substantially.
Most of the costs have been mandated by the Federal and State
legislators .
Mr. Dickerson felt they should do it now instead of waiting due to the
costs going up.
Howard VerWay, 2310 Yule Tree Drive, felt paving the roads would help
beautify the City. All of them moved to Edgewater when they did not
have roads and sewers and they knew the day was going to come.
George Neill, 1604 Royal Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. He
presented some insight about using the money that was used to scrape
the roads to pave the roads . He referred to a report from a couple of
years ago when the City was spending $362, 000 just to scrape the
roads. He spoke if they decided to take that money and start paving
the roads they would still be confronted with the problem of scraping
the roads . He then commented on the gas tax money received from the
County and the money being taken out of the Community Development
Block Grant for paving. This money is supposed to be used for the
upgrade of the living conditions of the people that are at poverty
level. He suggested the City use the Community Development Block
Grant. He spoke of the health and safety being a factor of the
Community Development Block Grant. There is no question they need
paving. He felt there was money being spent in areas they probably
could direct towards paving to show some consideration for the
taxpayers.
City Manager McMahon disclosed the City last year applied for and
received $50, 000 which was provided to them through the CDBG funds .
They asked that Florida Shores be paved and this was denied. The City
fought hard last year to get $50, 000 from the federal government and
some of the people at the meeting tonight fought it.
David Colee, 1716 Willow Oak Drive, commented on the traffic on Willow
Oak Drive and the people that speed now even though it is a dirt road.
He expressed concern with the paving not slowing people down. He
spoke of the City wanting to pave during the summer months when the
buses aren' t running but the buses will be running starting July 18th
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because of summer school. He then disclosed he knew buses didn' t run
on Willow Oak because a member of City staff that lived a block and a
half away from him transported his kids to school every day in his
City vehicle. He didn' t want his road paved. He felt the traffic
wouldn' t get any better if the road was paved.
Cynthia Dupae, 2754 Evergreen Drive, wanted her road paved. Her father
previously owned the home and was promised the road would be paved.
She was concerned her father would never see the road paved. She had
a problem with it taking the City 10 years to pave 50+ miles of road.
She wanted to know what it would cost her ten years from now.
Giovanni Mattera, 1724 Victory Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving
the roads . He suggested the City tax people that had already built
homes to cover the cost of the roads.
Richard Clauson, 506 Sparrow Drive, bought a home in Pelican Cove West
to get away from the dirt roads . He didn' t want to put his family on
a dirt road but was for dirt roads . He spoke of paying a higher tax
rate for his home being on an upscale property. He was concerned
about how the residents of Edgewater feel about their City. He wanted
to see Edgewater come closer together with everybody.
Mike McGerty, 2520 Umbrella Tree Drive, had mixed emotions about dirt
and paved roads . He spoke everybody being worried about the dust and
the potholes. He suggested they put cheap roads in and identified a
process that only costs $2, 000 a mile.
City Manager McMahon identified the type of road Mr. McGerty was
talking about had a life expectancy of approximately three years .
Mr. McGerty pointed out the roads in Deland lasted five to seven years
and the paved roads lasted fifteen.
City Engineer Fegley commented on the chip and seal type program they
had several years back. The complaints were numerous which led to
discarding one of the street machines . Without more information he
wasn' t able to say yes or no. He felt the $2, 000 figure was low. The
City did not have the equipment on-hand. He did not recommend it.
Mayor Hayman identified there were available seats in the front and
asked anyone outside to come inside so they could close the door to
cool the room down.
Mayor Hayman then identified after the next gentleman they would take
a ten-minute break.
Ray Miller, 3110 Sabal Palm Drive, spoke of fighting for the sewers
and getting it. He spoke of construction costs increasing every year.
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He suggested they make the road paving a project, get the money, pave
all the roads now, pay for it and it would be done with.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time.
Mayor Hayman asked those that were in support of a paving program to
please stand up. He then asked those that were in support of a paving
program all at once to please stand up. He then asked those that
supported the paving program that was discussed tonight, six to seven
miles over a period of perhaps 10 years to please stand up. He then
asked those that were against any form of paving program to please
stand up.
Mayor Hayman informed the public the staff was prepared to address the
questions and comments presented earlier by the public.
Mr. Karet addressed the concerns and questions raised regarding the
ten-year program and what the cost would be at the end of the ten-year
program assuming the consumer price index over the next ten years were
to hold at 3. 9%, which was the average over the last ten years. He
also commented on the taxes increasing.
Finance Director Fred Munoz commented on what currently happens with
the money received and paid with regard to road maintenance.
City Manager McMahon identified the General Fund Budget proposed for
this year included the road paving program as proposed. He further
commented on the ad valorem taxes not supporting this .
Mr. Munoz commented on revenues received by the City having
restrictions and the City having to be in compliance with State
regulations .
City Manager McMahon further commented on revenue the City receives
from Volusia County with regard to what the State formula allows .
Councilman Mitchum requested the people that had not been able to
speak yet be allowed to speak.
The following citizens spoke:
Jeanne DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, didn' t think it was the
appropriate time to pave the streets . She had no problem with
contacting the City to grade her road. She pointed out three
Councilmembers were on the Council when the CIP program came in and
asked why they let this get away. Councilwoman Martin informed her
the people said they couldn' t afford it. Mayor Hayman further
elaborated on Ms . DelNigro' s concerns . One of the reasons they were
having this meeting was to see if the feelings of the people had
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changed. Ms . DelNigro felt this was not the right time to put any
more taxes or assessments on the people.
Neil Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. He
lives on a corner lot and was wondering if he would be responsible for
his entire frontage. City Manager McMahon informed him the only thing
being proposed was the 50 mile of unpaved roads which did not include
the side roads . He further identified some of the side roads would be
used as retention areas, which was a requirement of the State.
Mr. Hackett pointed out his driveway was on the side road and
questioned even though he would be paying for paving he would still be
on a dirt road on 36th Street.
Councilman Hays commented on meetings that were held over two years
ago and the diagrams also being available at City Hall . This was not
something that was just pulled out of the hat. They have talked about
this many times . He pointed out in the original plan the east west
streets weren' t going to be paved.
Mr. Hackett commented on some of the east west streets not being
converted to retention areas. City Manager McMahon stated they did
not intend to include any of the side roads in this paving program,
only the 50 miles of unpaved, north south streets in Florida Shores.
Mr. Hackett questioned 36th Street being considered a primary road.
City Manager McMahon informed him it was not but it didn' t mean it was
scheduled for retention.
Mayor Hayman commented on 12th Street, SR 442 and 26th Street being
arterial roads for east west traffic and felt 36th Street needed to be
addressed similarly to 12th Street. He felt when they did the traffic
count on that road they would see significant traffic count and usage
to justify consideration very strongly for inclusion in the program.
Cynthia Dupae, 2754 Evergreen Drive, spoke of only being in the City
since May and described taking offense to the accusation that was made
that they should have known all this information because it has been
ongoing for two years. Councilman Hays resented the accusation that
he was "telling a lie". Ms. Dupae felt the side roads should have
been brought up earlier when there was a full house. Councilman Hays
stated nobody made anybody leave and felt it was a matter of choice.
Michael Dwyer, 1911 Kumquat Drive, felt the point about the side
streets should have been brought up at the beginning of the meeting.
He spoke of not being able to be at every meeting because of work. He
felt it was misleading.
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There was a brief discussion regarding the side streets with driveways
still being graded by the City.
Eva Clay, 3215 Royal Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. She asked
why, when they negotiated for the sewers to go in and for the roads to
be improved after the sewers were in, they couldn' t have negotiated
for paving at that time. Mayor Hayman explained on the roads that
were not paved originally the contract with the CIP required the
contractor to return or restore those roads to equal or better
condition, which did not account for paving. At the time the decision
was made, the people in the community, on their recommendation, the
Council elected not to do that. At the time it was cost prohibitive
and the people did not want to undergo the expense at that time.
George Naill, 1604 Royal Palm Drive, read from the County' s
publication on transportation with regard to how much the City
receives from the County for the local option gas tax. City Manager
McMahon suggested Mr. Naill look at the City' s audit report and then
present the facts. What he said was not a fact.
Betty Buccini, 2325 Date Palm Drive, thanked the City for the two
street lights that were put on her street. She spoke in favor of
paving. She felt Florida Shores was being discriminated against. She
wanted Florida Shores to be brought up to standard of the rest of the
City. She asked that they please pave the streets .
Dr. Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, resented the way some
of this was being done. He commented on the proposed retention ponds
and a majority of the corner houses having their driveways going out
onto the side streets . He then commented on why he wasn' t terribly
fond of the plan being presented. He wanted to know what streets were
going to be paved before they make a decision on it. He didn' t care
if his street was paved or not. He felt once they are paved they
wouldn' t be safe to walk on or for people to ride bicycles because of
people speeding.
Dr. Gebelein then identified he felt the survey sent out by the City
was ludicrous .
Dr. Gebelein wanted to see figures on what would be the fastest that
the paving could be done. He also wanted to see estimates for
different kinds of road surfaces .
Councilman Hays identified the question he needed answered from the
people in the audience tonight was whether they were for the paving or
not.
Connie Watkins, 2509 Silver Palm Drive, wasn' t aware the east west
streets were not going to be paved until tonight. She had a problem
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with people' s taxes being increased and not getting any paving. She
suggested they do a survey on traffic and put paving on those that
take the biggest brunt of the traffic. She felt there would be an
uproar once the people on the east west streets find out what was
going on.
Mayor Hayman explained the north south arteries were the through
streets in Florida Shores . The east west arteries, with one or two
exceptions, stop at every intersection. The City recognized some
people had houses and their driveway approaches and departures on an
east west artery. He spoke of the majority of all traffic in Florida
Shores going north and south, with a few exceptions . He spoke of the
issue of stormwater runoff and having to create a place to collect it.
The engineers have suggested they take some of the lesser traveled
east west arteries and convert those areas to collection points for
the water. He spoke of mandates from the State Capital with regard to
stormwater management. No matter what they do they have to collect
and dispose of the water properly.
Maria Dryver, 2203 Sabal Palm Drive, pointed out on 22nd Street almost
every block has two driveways on the side street. She asked how they
would handle that. Mayor Hayman stated there was no way they could
deny access to the peoples' homes . Those would be an exception to any
stormwater retention area.
Florence Indyke, 2810 Royal Palm Drive, questioned it being fair for
the people to pay the increase in taxes to cover the paving and yet
not have their street paved. Mayor Hayman informed her she also had
frontage on a north south artery as well.
Amy Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Drive, referred to the preliminary
surveys about the main arteries that were going to be paved. She
hadn' t heard about the traffic count. City Manager McMahon informed
her the traffic count had not been done yet. Ms . Hackett identified
she was for the road paving.
Howard Duff, 609 Mooring Lane, was for paving but not for an increase
in taxes. He spoke of paying considerably more for his house which
included the paved roads . He then spoke of the paving increasing the
property values .
City Manager McMahon identified the only way the City could consider
paving all the roads at one time was with a long term bond issue.
George Ewing asked if it would have to be on a referendum. City
Manager McMahon informed him it did not unless they were using ad
valorem taxes .
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Michael Dwyer, 1911 Kumquat Drive, asked if it would be cost
prohibitive to have somebody come and pave six miles of road per year.
City Manager McMahon addressed his concerns. Mr. Dwyer identified in
real dollars this would cost more over the long haul than it would now
and felt it would be beneficial to do it all now.
William Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked about the six foot
fences on the cross streets and if that meant a retention pond was
going in there. He was for paving all of the streets as soon as
possible.
City Engineer Fegley further commented on where the retention ponds
would be, including the east west streets with driveways . He further
described the six foot fences were a deterrent for children or to
identify dead ends .
Jimmy Day, 2936 Travelers Palm Drive, asked how deep the retention
areas would be, which City Engineer Fegley identified for him.
Mr. Day identified a problem he saw with not paving the east west
streets, which he has seen on streets not paved in Port Orange as he
works for the City of Port Orange.
Mr. Day spoke of the City of Port Orange looking at a transportation
utility fee. City Manager McMahon commented on this being a very
interesting question that was currently being litigated. He did not
suggest that as a workable plan right now but in the future it may be.
John Whittenton, 1843 India Palm Drive, felt the City had major
trouble. He felt they needed to do something now. What they have
done already should have been done five years ago. He spoke of the
new homes being built in Florida Shores. They need to pay now or they
are going to pay later because Edgewater was growing. He felt they
would have other trouble to deal with ten years down the road. They
have to pay if they want something. He works hard for what he' s got.
He wants Edgewater to look good because he lives here and works here.
Chuck Gebelein, 3116 Woodland Drive, commented on the cost for his
house. He asked where the money would be going for the people whose
taxes and assessments were going to be raised. City Manager McMahon
explained the basic methodology with regard to assessments .
Mr. Gebelein would rather pay the $1, 000 to have his house done and
not have a ten year or longer assessment against the house, which
would raise the value of the house increasing the actual assessment
they would be paying.
Finance Director Munoz estimated it would cost $115, 000 to pave one
mile and described how they came up with the 1/3 cost to each property
owner on each side of the street and the City.
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August 9, 1993
City Manager McMahon further described if the City went out for a long
term bond issue if there would have to be a referendum. If they were
to use property taxes for that project only, they would have to go out
for a referendum. If they decided to do this by full assessment and
not use ad valorem tax money to do the entire project then it would
not have to go out for a referendum.
William Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked if they broke it down to
$29.40 for a person for their share of the final $667, which was being
broken down into 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3. Mr. Karet informed him that was a
tax figure that was based on a median home of $65, 000 and confirmed
the key figure was .735 mills per $1, 000.
Hal Jones, 3015 Sabal Palm Drive, was for all of the streets being
paved, including the east west streets, at one time.
COUNCIL COMMENTS AND RESPONSES
Councilman Mitchum stated this meeting was a start for the planning.
They had to first find out if the project was wanted. He thanked
everyone for coming.
Councilman Hays also thanked everyone for coming. It was important
for him to get the input from the citizens . He appreciated their
input.
City Manager McMahon encouraged the residents to come in and speak to
staff if they have any questions .
Councilman Jones thanked everyone for their feedback. From the size
of the crowd, he didn' t think the problem was going to go away until
they have smooth roads .
Councilwoman Martin thanked everyone for coming. She felt with the
packed house it showed they were interested in what goes on in the
City. They want to solve the paving problem and move forward. She
hoped they could get the paving on the road.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Mitchum moved
to adjourn.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
Deputy City Clerk
14
Council Public Meeting
August 9, 1993
COMMENT CARDS FROM AUGUST 9. 1993 PUBLIC MEETING
We need to pave all the roads and improve all of Edgewater. Making
it a better place to live. Hopefully improve property values and
making it more appealing place to live.
Pave them all now. That way we will all pay the same amount.
Just Do it --All Now
Yes we need paved roads. -Felicia VerWay, Howard VerWay
If Mango is being used as the main thoroughfare for the city
trucks, we feel that Mango (south of 30th) should be one of the
first roads paved. We are for the paving of the road but feel that
putting it off for whatever reason, will cost us, the taxpayers,
more money in the long run. How long and what arrangements will be
made to pay these fees when it is done.- Mr. & Mrs. Albert Horne,
3413 Mango Tree Dr.
Pave my road. It will be less dust, it will be better on my car.
I an 62, 1 do not think I have that much time left to wait 10
years. I am willing for my tax to be raised.- Eva Clay, 3215 Royal
Palm
I am for paving the roads all at once even if it comes to a bond
issue.- Amy Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm
Yes pave the roads not over 10 years do it sooner.- P J Dillon,
2926 Yule Tree Dr.
Do it now -costs will never be less, nor interest rates. Waiting up
to 10 years for streets to be paved is not acceptable. The damage
to cars from driving on washboard will exceed by far the cost of
paving. Pave all the streets at once. Improvements always come
back in the re -sale value of the properties. The costs per mile
will be less if the entire project can be bid as one job.- Gary A.
Lee, 2731 Evergreen Dr.
Yes, for road paving which includes east -west arteries, that do not
have stop signs or retention. (i.e. 36th Street)- T. Neal Hackett,
3510 Victory Palm
Pave the roads now all of them.- Betty Buccini, 2325 Date Palm
I feel that the proposal is fair and equitable for all. Thanks for
your hard work. -Pat Rains, Jim Proffitt, 2827 Woodland Dr.
Yes Pave. But do give priority to roads with the most houses.-
Toldo Malagon, 1728 Victory Palm
Can't we get a bond to pay for paving?- June Bubacz, 3511 Victory
Palm
Please consider bond issue the most equitable form of payment for
the roads that are needed.- Dorothy Duff, 609 Mooring Lane
I am for paving but not raising taxes. I still work at 63
Paving needs to be paid by other means beside taxes. Check with
Port Orange and their transportation utility fee.
I have lived in 3rd world countries with better living conditions.
Pave the roads now and stop the H.S. It is 1993 not 1893.
I am for paving but not rasing taxes. I still work at 63 a farm.
I got the same for my products as I did 15 years ago. I can not
afford more taxes without doing without something. I believe in
the democrat method of solving this problem. Get the best plan you
can make and put it to a vote by each person paying. We stayed for
the whole meeting.
1) What side roads are going to be ok'd for ponds? 2) Why is it
going to take so long to do the roads? 3) With the cost going up
every year so it would look to me that you would have to go up with
taxes every year. it it's is going to take 10 years to do it. 4)
You said that the roads should last 10 years so it looks to me when
your done you will have to start all over again but it will cost
more. 5) I don't mind paying the tax but I think giving you all a
raise in pay then come to us and ask us to pay more taxes to pay
for something is uncalled for. 6) I would like to know how much
money it would cost a year to maintain the dirt roads now and why
you did look at this and do something about it back then. -George
Dickerson, 2604 Travelers Palm
In your determination as to who gets paved first. 1) Your trucks
and equipment use Mango constantly, therefore we have more dust,
more ruts. I want it paved now. 2) As you do north of Roberts at
least give us every other street paved -now not 10 years or 11. 3)
At our age 11 years to wait and pay taxes is too long- there must
be another way. Please reply to at least question 1.- Marguerite
Cobb, 3414 Mango Tree Dr.
Salaries do not match what we have to pay today and being a single
Female trying to keep my home and service, $6.00 / hr just doesn't
allow me to pay anymore of anything-Edwenna Hall
My street paved already taxed for it. No more taxes for US- Justin
Perrier, 1629 Travelers Palm
My street Travelers Palm is already pave. I pay I should not pay
taxes to pave other streets.- H Williams, 1704 Travelers Palm
%W V
Let the property owners pay the same as we did to have street
paved- J Carter, Orange Tree Drive.
When I purchased my house in Edgewater Landings I paid for
improvements and paved roads, why should I be taxed again.
You drive people out- not asking them to stay.
The engineer commented the roads will last 10 years. Pine Tree Dr.
has been resurfaced for one year and is breaking up.
My objection is with tax increase, sewer, roads etc. You have made
it totally impossible for people to sell their homes. We now are
captives of your plans. I want out.- G.M. Small, 1829 Victory
Palm
The Federal government has just passed the biggest tax increase in
history. Local, County, State or Federal Governments must learn
to say no. We can no longer afford to pay for all the extras we
might like to have.- John Mount
1) Last year the people voted down paving. Seniors and unemployed
can not pay more taxes. 2) Seniors who have as only income Social
Security can not afford more taxes or added expenses. We have to
pay for the hook up for the sewer and the taxes are increased.
Get Rid of City Manager and attorney. Save over $100,000.00 +
Even in baseball or football you get time out -Give us a break
v Ifto
August 9, 1993
David Molnar
2117 Travelers Palm
Donald Kastner
3036 Mango Tree Dr.
Randall Hertz
2019 Kumquat
Dominick Fazzone
302 Paradise Lane
Tom Cobb
3414 Mango Tree Dr.
Judd Rytten
3307 Willow Oak
Donald Lyons
2519 Glenwood
Al Gilbert
2025 Needle Palm
Robert Pough
2925 Yule Tree
Dominic Capria
606 Topside
Linda Setchfiled
3036 Willow Oak
Roger Miracle
2121 Willow Oak
George Dickerson
2810 Yule Tree
Howard VerWay
2310 Yule Tree Dr.
George Naill
1604 Royal Palm
Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting
1
v v
Dave Coles
1716 Willow Oak
Cynitha Coupe'
2724 Evergreen
Giovanni Mattera
1724 Victory Palm
Richard Chauson
506 Sparrow
Michael MCGerty
2520 Umbrella Tree
Ray Miller
3110 Sabal Palm
Jean Delnigro
3130 Tamarind
Neal Hackett
3510 Victory Palm
Cynitha Coupe'
2754 Evergreen
Mike O'Dwyer
1911 Kumquat
Eva Clay
3215 Royal Palm
George Naill
1604 Royal Palm
Betty Buccini
2325 Date Palom
Dr. Charles Gebelein
1730 Umbrella Tree
Johnny Watkins
2509 Silver Palm
Maria Dryver
2203 Sabal Palm
Florence Indyk
2810 Royal Palm
Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting
2
Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting
Amy Hackett
3510 Victory Palm
Howard Duff
609 Mooring Lane
George Ewing
Mike O'Dwyer
1911 Kumquat Dr.
William Anderson
1730 Pine Tree Dr.
Jimmy Davis 2936 Travlers Palm
John Whittenton
1843 India Palm
chuck Gebelein
3116 Woodland Dr.
Hal Jones
3015 Sabal Palm
A
NV
BREAKDOWN -PUBLIC MEETING SHEETS
AUGUST 9, 1993
FLORIDA SHORES
Address of
For Paving
Street to be
Owner
Yes/No
paved
3036
Willow Oak
Already paved
Willow
2628
Queen Palm
Already paved
27th Street
2910
Needle Palm
No
29th Street
1930
Orange Tree
No
None
2933
Silver Palm
Yes
Silver Palm
2325
Date Palm
Yes
Date Palm
2936
Travelers Palm
No
Travelers Palm
2417
Kumquat Dr.
Yes
Kumquat
3308
Sabal Palm
Yes
Sabal Palm
1603
Travelers Palm
No
16th Street
2310
Yule Tree
Yes
23rd and Yule
2432
Woodland Dr.
No
Woodland
1903
Pine Tree
No
19th Street
3010
Kumquat
Yes
30th Kumquat
3413
Mango Tree
----
Mango Tree
3110
Sabal Palm
Yes
Sabal Palm
3119
Travelers Palm
----
3119 Travelers
1604
Royal Palm
Yes
Royal Palm
2804
Yule Tree
Yes
Yule Tree
2722
Tamarind
Yes
Tamarind
2717
Orange Tree
----
Tamarind
3130
Tamarind
No
Tamarind
2413
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory
2921
Travelers Palm
Yes
Travelers
2117
Travelers Palm
No
---------
3510
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
2504
Juniper
Yes
Juniper
2108
Hibiscus
Yes
Hibiscus
3015
Mango Tree
Yes
Mango Tree
1211
Willow Oak
No
----------
3510
victory Palm
Yes
Victory 36th
2756
Banyan Tree
Yes
Banyan 27th
1521
Queen Palm
Yes
Queen Palm
1521
Queen Palm
Yes
Queen Palm
1514
Pine Tree
No
----------
1730
Pine Tree
Yes
----------
3307
Willow Oak
No
----------
2754
Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
3015
Sabal Palm
Yes
Sabal Palm
3314
Kumquat
Yes
----------
3116
Woodland
No
Woodland
3124
Pine Tree
Yes
Pine Tree
NW
Address of
For Paving
Street to be
Owner
Yea/No
paved
2519
Glenwood
Yes
Glenwood
1908
Royal Palm
No
----------
2731
Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
2622
Lime Tree
Yes
Lime Tree
2304
Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
2429
Kumquat
No
Kumquat
2428
Kumquat
No
Kumquat
2505
Juniper
Yes
Juniper
1530
Sabal Palm
Yes
Sabal Palm
1629
Travelers
Yes
Paved already
3229
Silver Palm
Yes
Silver Palm
2722
Tamarind
Yes
Tamarind
2617
Umbrella
Yes
----------
2920
Travelers
----
----------
1916
Lime Tree
----
Lime Tree
3414
Umbrella
----
Victory
1842
Date Palm
----
----------
1730
Umbrella
No
Umbrella
1829
Victory Palm
No
Victory Palm
2607
Woodland
No
Woodland
2231
Queen Palm
No
None
3215
Royal Palm
No
Royal Palm
2709
Lime Tree
Yes
Lime Tree
2423
Woodland
No
Woodland
3039
Mango Tree
No
Mango Tree
1824
Sabal Palm
?
Sabal Palm N.
2829
Yule Tree
Yes
Yule Tree
2009
Umbrella Tree
Yes
Umbrella Tree
2817
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
2827
Woodland
Yes
Woodland
3205
Tamarind
No
Tamarind
2925
Yule Tree
No
Yule
3414
Mango Tree
Yes
Mango Tree
3209
Vista Palm
?
"'-------
1819
Victory Palm
No
Victory Palm
3036
Mango Tree
Yes
Mango Tree
1223
Willow Oak
Yes
Willow Oak
2019
Kumquat
Yes
Kumquat
1503
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
3114
Vista Palm
Yes
Vista Palm
1503
Victory Palm
----
Victory Palm
1724
Victory Palm
----
Victory Palm
1307
Travelers
Yes
Sabal Palm
1415
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
2509
Silver
No
Silver Palm
2727
Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
2829
Yule Tree
Yes
Yule Tree
3011
Queen Palm
Yes
Queen Palm
Address of
For Paving
Street to be
owner
Yes/No
Paved
1920 Kumquat
Yes
Kumquat
1920 Kumquat
Yes
Kumquat
2766 Date Palm
Yes
Date Palm
1908-10 Fern Palm
Yes
Fern Palm
2324 Needle Palm
Yes
Needle Palm
3102 Mango Tree
Yes
Mango Tree
2810 Yule Tree
Yes
Yule Tree
2426 Yule Tree
Yes
Yule Tree
2815 Silver Palm
No
Silver Palm
3325 Royal Palm
Yes
Royal Palm
2726 Mango Tree
Yes
Needle Palm
3323 Kumquat
Yes
Kumquat
1728 Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
1728 Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
2731 Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
2028 Needle Palm
Yes
Needle Palm
2722 Needle Palm
Yes
Needle Palm
1716 Willow Oak
No
Willow Oak
2609 Umbrella Tree
Yes
Umbrella Tree
2514 Lime Tree
No
-------------
2727 Evergreen
Yes
Evergreen
1903 Pine Tree
No
-------------
1911 Kumquat
No
--------
3016 Needle Palm
No
Needle Palm
2529 Orange Tree
To be determined
-------------
2722 Needle Palm
-----
---------
3414 Mango Tree
Remains to be seen
Mango Tree
2429 Woodland
Yes
Woodland
2203 Lime Tree
Yes
Lime Tree
2904 Yule Tree
No
Yule Tree
2401 Willow Oak
No
Willow Oak
3011 Juniper
No
Juniper
3119 Queen Palm
Yes
Queen Palm
2109 Umbrella
No
--------
2109 Umbrella
No
----------
3039 Needle Palm
Yes
----------
2409 Kumquat
Yes
Kumquat
1330 Queen Palm
Yes
-----------
Victory Palm
Yes
Victory Palm
2536 Umbrella
No
Umbrella
1960-62 Fern Palm
Yes
Fern Palm
2130 Needle Palm
Yes
Needle Palm
No- 38
Yes- 78
Other Comments- 6
Blank 10
Total 132
.W
OTHERS
-u
Address of
For Paving
Street to be
Owner
Yes/No
paved
320 Schooner
No
----------
314 Paradise lane
No
----------
1707 Dayton
----
----------
506 Sparrow
No
----------
416 Sandpiper
No
----------
115 N. Riverside
No
Riverside Dr.
2351 S. Ridgewood
No
Turgot
1708 Ridgewood
No
Umbrella Tree
324 Pine Breeze
----
-----------
1606 S. Riverside
----
-----------
No- 7
Yes- 0
Blank- 3
Total 10