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08-09-1993 - Public Meeting CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER PUBLIC MEETING AUGUST 9, 1993 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Hayman called the Public Meeting to order at 7 : 00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Jack Hayman Present Councilman Kirk Jones Absent Councilwoman Louise Martin Present Councilman Michael Hays Present Councilman David Mitchum Present City Attorney Krista Storey Present City Manager George McMahon Present City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present MAYOR'S STATEMENT OF MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of the meeting was to hear a presentation and receive public comments on the proposed City street paving program. Mayor Hayman asked everyone to sign in so they could keep an accurate record of how many people were attending the meeting. He commented on the fact sheet that represented questions and findings that staff had compiled over a period of time relative to the public paving program that was available for the public. Mayor Hayman asked for the public to keep their comments on the topic of discussion and informed them they would have an opportunity to provide written questions or remarks and that the comment cards were in the back of the room. Mayor Hayman asked the public to come to the podium and identify who they were as well as their address when addressing the Council. STAFF PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED STREET PAVING PROGRAM City Manager McMahon made a staff presentation and turned the meeting over to Public Works Director Hugh Williams to present an overview of the program. 1 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 Mr. Williams identified Edgewater had 65 miles of unpaved roads, 50 of those being in Florida Shores . They were proposing a ten-year program to undertake six miles a year with the ultimate goal of having all of the roads in the City paved. He commented on identifying the roads that have the highest traffic counts and co-mingling that with the school bus routes from which they could produce a priority list. They would endeavor to pave as many of those streets in each given year as they would have money enough to pave. Mr. Williams further spoke of needing to get permits from FDOT and the St. Johns River Water Management District. Mr. Williams identified they would then go to a conceptual design and then a final design after receiving the required permits . He further commented on doing this job either based on cost per mile or bid the entire job. He felt staff could probably do some of the work in-house which would help reduce the cost. The goal going into this was to start somewhere in July 1994 and to be out before the school buses run in September. He then referred to the list showing the roads in Edgewater that were not paved. City Engineer Kyle Fegley made a presentation regarding the technical aspect synopsis of the roadway construction, what constitutes a road and what the final product would be. Mr. Fegley identified the various layers that make a road. The useful life of a road should be about 15 - 20 years . He then commented on the plan layout which showed a typical intercept with a swale. He spoke of some of the side streets within Florida Shores having to have shell type retention ponds, which was a St. Johns River Water Management District requirement. He further commented on the characteristics of the roadway and City employees doing some of the work to save on the cost. Mr. Fegley then commented on the roadway composition he had designed which he felt was an equitable design for 20 years. Director of Community Development Mark Karet commented on the costs and payment methods associated with the road paving program. City Manager McMahon further identified if the City went into this project it would count on an assessment at the time the benefits were occurring and would be assessed in the year it started and each year the City would have to collect its third through tax means . Once it was paid in full it would be up to the Council to lower the tax rate. 2 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 Mayor Hayman spoke of this being an extremely controversial issue which was why they were soliciting input and ideas from the citizens . City Manager McMahon then commented on the statement of future taxes and described as long as the program existed and the City had to put up its 1/3 it would be proposed that the 34 mill tax remain in effect. PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS Mayor Hayman identified how the public questions and comments would be handled. David Molnar, 2117 Travelers Palm Drive, spoke of paying for the road a few years ago. He didn' t understand why he had to pay for a road he had already paid for. He spoke of every resident paying for their own frontage. He suggested doing away with some of the political high paid jobs. Mayor Hayman asked the residents to confine their remarks to the paving program. Mr. Molnar informed him the paving they had right now was not satisfactory. Mayor Hayman questioned this being an area that was already paved and under the present CIP proposal that would be repaved to equal or better conditions . He further identified all of the residents would be subject to an ad valorem tax increase but those that lived on roads that were already paved would not have another road assessment. Councilwoman Martin explained the ad valorem tax was a general tax that would pay the City' s third and that comes from everyone. Don Castner, 124 Hardin Place and 3036 Mango Tree Drive, spoke on wanting to see Mango Tree Drive paved. He further spoke of what he considers to be an isolated subdivision concept and a unified city concept. He spoke of the dust being generated from the dirt streets in Florida Shores and how important peoples' health is with regard to respiratory conditions . Randall Hess, 2019 Kumquat Drive, was willing to pay whatever it takes to get the roads paved. He spoke of the site next to him making the situation worse due to construction equipment coming in and out of the property multiple times every day. He spoke of the damage being done to their houses and vehicles and that whatever it would cost was chicken scratch compared to the long term damage. He felt everybody needed to look at the big picture. Dominick Fazzone, 302 Paradise Lane, spoke of building sewers in Florida Shores being first brought up to the Council in 1985 and because of the opposition the Council didn' t do it until three or four 3 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 years later and it cost them a lot more money. He further commented on the concerns of older people that are on social security. He spoke of the city coming up with a plan that the rest of the city shall donate which he felt they should do. He felt the City should be unified and not divided. He further spoke of the increase to the taxes being minimal . Tom Cobb, 3414 Mango Tree Drive, spoke of not being able to open their windows because of the dust and about the cost for paving increasing every year. They want the road paved now and don' t want to be on the tail end of the ten years it is going to take. Jude Rutten, 3307 Willow Oak Drive, questioned why everyone did not receive notification of this meeting. Mayor Hayman informed him on Thursday and Friday city employees began distributing notices to every household in the City. Mr. Rutten felt that was an inadequate way of trying to notify their constituents there was a very important meeting going on. City Manager McMahon informed him the decision to have the meeting was made a week ago. They took the least expensive way they could. The only other way to communicate was by mail which never would have reached them as fast as the way they did it and that it had been in the newspaper every day for the past week. Mr. Rutten spoke of getting the information through word of mouth and people not being given the opportunity to be there. He questioned why they didn' t plan better. Councilman Hays further explained coming into budget time, they thought since this was such a contested issue it would be a good idea to have a public hearing and address just this issue. He further commented on making every attempt they could to notify people the most cost effective way they could. He felt they made a sincere effort. Mr. Rutten felt the Council should look ahead and think ahead. He asked how much money would be saved when they get the streets done by the people who were scraping the roads. City Manager McMahon informed him it would depend on how many miles of road would be paved. Mr. Rutten informed him what the annual cost was for what they were doing. City Manager McMahon informed him the figure would be about $300, 000 a year if they were all paved at the same time. That money would be turned back into the maintenance and resurfacing of the road. Mr. Rutten commented on this being a ten year project with the streets lasting approximately 15 to 20 years . He felt it was silly to do this for ten years and when they get done they will start all over somewhere else. He further spoke of the streets that will be paved now, in ten years from now the first streets that are done would deteriorate and would require maintenance. 4 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 Councilman Hays wanted the residents to let him know if they wanted a road paving project or not. Mr. Rutten stated he was in favor and that it wouldn' t cost him the assessment because his road had already been paved. He felt everyone should be in favor of this because of the dust that was being generated. He hoped in the future they would take more time in planning these things, which he felt was poor planning on the City' s part. Councilman Jones commented on understanding where the frustration level was at since this had been going on for a long time. He spoke of this being part of CIP program and this being part of the whole plan. He was for it back then but they felt as a Council that was a big chunk for them to chew. He spoke of the need for input from the citizens . This paving project got so much opposition so they pulled it out of the CIP. He spoke of the economy not being the greatest and not wanting to burden people as it related to a household having enough coming in to be able to pay for the paving. Donald Lyon, 2519 Glenwood Drive, was for paving of the roads but suggested they do it all at once due to the longer they take the more the cost will increase. Al Gilbert, 2025 Needle Palm Drive, referred to a newspaper article from a year ago that identified it would cost them $2, 200 in assessments . As of August 4, 1993 it is $667 . He suggested if they wait a couple more years it will cost them even less . He was willing to pay it back then and was even more willing to pay it now. He then questioned how much they were going to wind up paying. He felt they were getting a pretty good deal and maybe they could get a better deal and suggested they check into it some more. Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, would like to have paved roads but all he needed now was a job. He felt the people that were there tonight seemed to have money but there were a lot of people in town that didn't have the money. He spoke of what the cost would be now compared to ten years from now. He questioned if the rich on 12th Street would get their roads paved first and only pay $600 and the rest of them that live on Yule Tree will pay $2, 000 ten years from now. He would love to have his road paved but he can' t afford to have his road paved and neither can a lot of other people. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, congratulated the Council for calling a meeting such as this to get input. He was for the streets being paved but not under the financial situation that was presented. He spoke of the residents in Edgewater Landing paying for their streets 100% after which they were dedicated to the City. He spoke of 5 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 the cost being included in the price of their homes, which means they pay a higher tax base. He was wondering where the fairness of it was . He was for the roads being paved but felt they should look into a different way of financing it. Linda Fetchfield, 3036 Willow Oak Drive, spoke of living on a paved road but they have to put up with the dirt from the other roads . She questioned using the money the City receives from the State and Federal government. She felt there were other ways of making money besides taxing the people. They have been in Edgewater two years and don' t have the money to pay for the sewers . They are ready to leave due to feeling the government here was not fair. She also pointed out they didn' t get a notice about the meeting and found out by word of mouth. She felt the people of Edgewater as a whole needed to get together on this . City Manager McMahon elaborated on comments made about previous funding that was received from the Federal, State and County government. The only funds that existed today were the Community Development Block Grant money which goes to special targeted people under the federal guidelines. This year the balance left was dedicated for people who would not be able to pay any other way because of low income to hook up to the sewers. The Council asked that that money be transferred for that purpose. Other than that there was no federal money nor has there been in approximately 10 years . There was no State money. The only money received was a sharing of the 22% of the 1/5 cent gas tax that comes from the County that was distributed amongst 14 cities in Volusia County. Our share came to slightly more than $200, 000, which was spent on a continuous basis to maintain roads throughout the City, which doesn' t cover the maintenance costs for all of the roads. Roger Miracle, 2121 Willow Oak Drive and Pastor of Friendship Baptist Church spoke of a letter he sent the City stating he was in favor personally for paving and that the benefits were worth it for the church. He further spoke of Hibiscus needing to be graded three times a week. He commented on speaking with two families in the last month who were looking for a place to relocate. Both of those families decided to locate elsewhere because of the conditions of the roads and the lack of sidewalks. George Dickerson, 2810 Yule Tree Drive and 2604 Travelers Palm Drive, was for paving the roads but not the timing of doing it now. He felt they should have started paving years ago using the money from the grading of the dirt roads that is being done now and put some of that money towards paving small sections, which he felt would save in the long run. If they paved one road five years ago, he felt they would have had one road less to pay for in the future. 6 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 City Manager McMahon explained they can' t grade and put the money aside. The residents demand grading of the roads and watering them down. He further commented on if Florida Shores had been annexed with all of the roads paved they wouldn't have this problem. When a new subdivision comes into the City they are required to provide paved roads and stormwater drainage, which was not the case when Florida Shores was annexed. He spoke of having a permit outstanding with a state regulatory agency for a period of six years and of that time they have five years remaining. When that permit expires they would go through an extremely costly process to have another permit issued and the requirements between now and then would change substantially. Most of the costs have been mandated by the Federal and State legislators . Mr. Dickerson felt they should do it now instead of waiting due to the costs going up. Howard VerWay, 2310 Yule Tree Drive, felt paving the roads would help beautify the City. All of them moved to Edgewater when they did not have roads and sewers and they knew the day was going to come. George Neill, 1604 Royal Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. He presented some insight about using the money that was used to scrape the roads to pave the roads . He referred to a report from a couple of years ago when the City was spending $362, 000 just to scrape the roads. He spoke if they decided to take that money and start paving the roads they would still be confronted with the problem of scraping the roads . He then commented on the gas tax money received from the County and the money being taken out of the Community Development Block Grant for paving. This money is supposed to be used for the upgrade of the living conditions of the people that are at poverty level. He suggested the City use the Community Development Block Grant. He spoke of the health and safety being a factor of the Community Development Block Grant. There is no question they need paving. He felt there was money being spent in areas they probably could direct towards paving to show some consideration for the taxpayers. City Manager McMahon disclosed the City last year applied for and received $50, 000 which was provided to them through the CDBG funds . They asked that Florida Shores be paved and this was denied. The City fought hard last year to get $50, 000 from the federal government and some of the people at the meeting tonight fought it. David Colee, 1716 Willow Oak Drive, commented on the traffic on Willow Oak Drive and the people that speed now even though it is a dirt road. He expressed concern with the paving not slowing people down. He spoke of the City wanting to pave during the summer months when the buses aren' t running but the buses will be running starting July 18th 7 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 because of summer school. He then disclosed he knew buses didn' t run on Willow Oak because a member of City staff that lived a block and a half away from him transported his kids to school every day in his City vehicle. He didn' t want his road paved. He felt the traffic wouldn' t get any better if the road was paved. Cynthia Dupae, 2754 Evergreen Drive, wanted her road paved. Her father previously owned the home and was promised the road would be paved. She was concerned her father would never see the road paved. She had a problem with it taking the City 10 years to pave 50+ miles of road. She wanted to know what it would cost her ten years from now. Giovanni Mattera, 1724 Victory Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving the roads . He suggested the City tax people that had already built homes to cover the cost of the roads. Richard Clauson, 506 Sparrow Drive, bought a home in Pelican Cove West to get away from the dirt roads . He didn' t want to put his family on a dirt road but was for dirt roads . He spoke of paying a higher tax rate for his home being on an upscale property. He was concerned about how the residents of Edgewater feel about their City. He wanted to see Edgewater come closer together with everybody. Mike McGerty, 2520 Umbrella Tree Drive, had mixed emotions about dirt and paved roads . He spoke everybody being worried about the dust and the potholes. He suggested they put cheap roads in and identified a process that only costs $2, 000 a mile. City Manager McMahon identified the type of road Mr. McGerty was talking about had a life expectancy of approximately three years . Mr. McGerty pointed out the roads in Deland lasted five to seven years and the paved roads lasted fifteen. City Engineer Fegley commented on the chip and seal type program they had several years back. The complaints were numerous which led to discarding one of the street machines . Without more information he wasn' t able to say yes or no. He felt the $2, 000 figure was low. The City did not have the equipment on-hand. He did not recommend it. Mayor Hayman identified there were available seats in the front and asked anyone outside to come inside so they could close the door to cool the room down. Mayor Hayman then identified after the next gentleman they would take a ten-minute break. Ray Miller, 3110 Sabal Palm Drive, spoke of fighting for the sewers and getting it. He spoke of construction costs increasing every year. 8 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 He suggested they make the road paving a project, get the money, pave all the roads now, pay for it and it would be done with. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. Mayor Hayman asked those that were in support of a paving program to please stand up. He then asked those that were in support of a paving program all at once to please stand up. He then asked those that supported the paving program that was discussed tonight, six to seven miles over a period of perhaps 10 years to please stand up. He then asked those that were against any form of paving program to please stand up. Mayor Hayman informed the public the staff was prepared to address the questions and comments presented earlier by the public. Mr. Karet addressed the concerns and questions raised regarding the ten-year program and what the cost would be at the end of the ten-year program assuming the consumer price index over the next ten years were to hold at 3. 9%, which was the average over the last ten years. He also commented on the taxes increasing. Finance Director Fred Munoz commented on what currently happens with the money received and paid with regard to road maintenance. City Manager McMahon identified the General Fund Budget proposed for this year included the road paving program as proposed. He further commented on the ad valorem taxes not supporting this . Mr. Munoz commented on revenues received by the City having restrictions and the City having to be in compliance with State regulations . City Manager McMahon further commented on revenue the City receives from Volusia County with regard to what the State formula allows . Councilman Mitchum requested the people that had not been able to speak yet be allowed to speak. The following citizens spoke: Jeanne DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, didn' t think it was the appropriate time to pave the streets . She had no problem with contacting the City to grade her road. She pointed out three Councilmembers were on the Council when the CIP program came in and asked why they let this get away. Councilwoman Martin informed her the people said they couldn' t afford it. Mayor Hayman further elaborated on Ms . DelNigro' s concerns . One of the reasons they were having this meeting was to see if the feelings of the people had 9 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 changed. Ms . DelNigro felt this was not the right time to put any more taxes or assessments on the people. Neil Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. He lives on a corner lot and was wondering if he would be responsible for his entire frontage. City Manager McMahon informed him the only thing being proposed was the 50 mile of unpaved roads which did not include the side roads . He further identified some of the side roads would be used as retention areas, which was a requirement of the State. Mr. Hackett pointed out his driveway was on the side road and questioned even though he would be paying for paving he would still be on a dirt road on 36th Street. Councilman Hays commented on meetings that were held over two years ago and the diagrams also being available at City Hall . This was not something that was just pulled out of the hat. They have talked about this many times . He pointed out in the original plan the east west streets weren' t going to be paved. Mr. Hackett commented on some of the east west streets not being converted to retention areas. City Manager McMahon stated they did not intend to include any of the side roads in this paving program, only the 50 miles of unpaved, north south streets in Florida Shores. Mr. Hackett questioned 36th Street being considered a primary road. City Manager McMahon informed him it was not but it didn' t mean it was scheduled for retention. Mayor Hayman commented on 12th Street, SR 442 and 26th Street being arterial roads for east west traffic and felt 36th Street needed to be addressed similarly to 12th Street. He felt when they did the traffic count on that road they would see significant traffic count and usage to justify consideration very strongly for inclusion in the program. Cynthia Dupae, 2754 Evergreen Drive, spoke of only being in the City since May and described taking offense to the accusation that was made that they should have known all this information because it has been ongoing for two years. Councilman Hays resented the accusation that he was "telling a lie". Ms. Dupae felt the side roads should have been brought up earlier when there was a full house. Councilman Hays stated nobody made anybody leave and felt it was a matter of choice. Michael Dwyer, 1911 Kumquat Drive, felt the point about the side streets should have been brought up at the beginning of the meeting. He spoke of not being able to be at every meeting because of work. He felt it was misleading. 10 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 There was a brief discussion regarding the side streets with driveways still being graded by the City. Eva Clay, 3215 Royal Palm Drive, spoke in favor of paving. She asked why, when they negotiated for the sewers to go in and for the roads to be improved after the sewers were in, they couldn' t have negotiated for paving at that time. Mayor Hayman explained on the roads that were not paved originally the contract with the CIP required the contractor to return or restore those roads to equal or better condition, which did not account for paving. At the time the decision was made, the people in the community, on their recommendation, the Council elected not to do that. At the time it was cost prohibitive and the people did not want to undergo the expense at that time. George Naill, 1604 Royal Palm Drive, read from the County' s publication on transportation with regard to how much the City receives from the County for the local option gas tax. City Manager McMahon suggested Mr. Naill look at the City' s audit report and then present the facts. What he said was not a fact. Betty Buccini, 2325 Date Palm Drive, thanked the City for the two street lights that were put on her street. She spoke in favor of paving. She felt Florida Shores was being discriminated against. She wanted Florida Shores to be brought up to standard of the rest of the City. She asked that they please pave the streets . Dr. Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, resented the way some of this was being done. He commented on the proposed retention ponds and a majority of the corner houses having their driveways going out onto the side streets . He then commented on why he wasn' t terribly fond of the plan being presented. He wanted to know what streets were going to be paved before they make a decision on it. He didn' t care if his street was paved or not. He felt once they are paved they wouldn' t be safe to walk on or for people to ride bicycles because of people speeding. Dr. Gebelein then identified he felt the survey sent out by the City was ludicrous . Dr. Gebelein wanted to see figures on what would be the fastest that the paving could be done. He also wanted to see estimates for different kinds of road surfaces . Councilman Hays identified the question he needed answered from the people in the audience tonight was whether they were for the paving or not. Connie Watkins, 2509 Silver Palm Drive, wasn' t aware the east west streets were not going to be paved until tonight. She had a problem 11 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 with people' s taxes being increased and not getting any paving. She suggested they do a survey on traffic and put paving on those that take the biggest brunt of the traffic. She felt there would be an uproar once the people on the east west streets find out what was going on. Mayor Hayman explained the north south arteries were the through streets in Florida Shores . The east west arteries, with one or two exceptions, stop at every intersection. The City recognized some people had houses and their driveway approaches and departures on an east west artery. He spoke of the majority of all traffic in Florida Shores going north and south, with a few exceptions . He spoke of the issue of stormwater runoff and having to create a place to collect it. The engineers have suggested they take some of the lesser traveled east west arteries and convert those areas to collection points for the water. He spoke of mandates from the State Capital with regard to stormwater management. No matter what they do they have to collect and dispose of the water properly. Maria Dryver, 2203 Sabal Palm Drive, pointed out on 22nd Street almost every block has two driveways on the side street. She asked how they would handle that. Mayor Hayman stated there was no way they could deny access to the peoples' homes . Those would be an exception to any stormwater retention area. Florence Indyke, 2810 Royal Palm Drive, questioned it being fair for the people to pay the increase in taxes to cover the paving and yet not have their street paved. Mayor Hayman informed her she also had frontage on a north south artery as well. Amy Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Drive, referred to the preliminary surveys about the main arteries that were going to be paved. She hadn' t heard about the traffic count. City Manager McMahon informed her the traffic count had not been done yet. Ms . Hackett identified she was for the road paving. Howard Duff, 609 Mooring Lane, was for paving but not for an increase in taxes. He spoke of paying considerably more for his house which included the paved roads . He then spoke of the paving increasing the property values . City Manager McMahon identified the only way the City could consider paving all the roads at one time was with a long term bond issue. George Ewing asked if it would have to be on a referendum. City Manager McMahon informed him it did not unless they were using ad valorem taxes . 12 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 Michael Dwyer, 1911 Kumquat Drive, asked if it would be cost prohibitive to have somebody come and pave six miles of road per year. City Manager McMahon addressed his concerns. Mr. Dwyer identified in real dollars this would cost more over the long haul than it would now and felt it would be beneficial to do it all now. William Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked about the six foot fences on the cross streets and if that meant a retention pond was going in there. He was for paving all of the streets as soon as possible. City Engineer Fegley further commented on where the retention ponds would be, including the east west streets with driveways . He further described the six foot fences were a deterrent for children or to identify dead ends . Jimmy Day, 2936 Travelers Palm Drive, asked how deep the retention areas would be, which City Engineer Fegley identified for him. Mr. Day identified a problem he saw with not paving the east west streets, which he has seen on streets not paved in Port Orange as he works for the City of Port Orange. Mr. Day spoke of the City of Port Orange looking at a transportation utility fee. City Manager McMahon commented on this being a very interesting question that was currently being litigated. He did not suggest that as a workable plan right now but in the future it may be. John Whittenton, 1843 India Palm Drive, felt the City had major trouble. He felt they needed to do something now. What they have done already should have been done five years ago. He spoke of the new homes being built in Florida Shores. They need to pay now or they are going to pay later because Edgewater was growing. He felt they would have other trouble to deal with ten years down the road. They have to pay if they want something. He works hard for what he' s got. He wants Edgewater to look good because he lives here and works here. Chuck Gebelein, 3116 Woodland Drive, commented on the cost for his house. He asked where the money would be going for the people whose taxes and assessments were going to be raised. City Manager McMahon explained the basic methodology with regard to assessments . Mr. Gebelein would rather pay the $1, 000 to have his house done and not have a ten year or longer assessment against the house, which would raise the value of the house increasing the actual assessment they would be paying. Finance Director Munoz estimated it would cost $115, 000 to pave one mile and described how they came up with the 1/3 cost to each property owner on each side of the street and the City. 13 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 City Manager McMahon further described if the City went out for a long term bond issue if there would have to be a referendum. If they were to use property taxes for that project only, they would have to go out for a referendum. If they decided to do this by full assessment and not use ad valorem tax money to do the entire project then it would not have to go out for a referendum. William Anderson, 1730 Pine Tree Drive, asked if they broke it down to $29.40 for a person for their share of the final $667, which was being broken down into 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3. Mr. Karet informed him that was a tax figure that was based on a median home of $65, 000 and confirmed the key figure was .735 mills per $1, 000. Hal Jones, 3015 Sabal Palm Drive, was for all of the streets being paved, including the east west streets, at one time. COUNCIL COMMENTS AND RESPONSES Councilman Mitchum stated this meeting was a start for the planning. They had to first find out if the project was wanted. He thanked everyone for coming. Councilman Hays also thanked everyone for coming. It was important for him to get the input from the citizens . He appreciated their input. City Manager McMahon encouraged the residents to come in and speak to staff if they have any questions . Councilman Jones thanked everyone for their feedback. From the size of the crowd, he didn' t think the problem was going to go away until they have smooth roads . Councilwoman Martin thanked everyone for coming. She felt with the packed house it showed they were interested in what goes on in the City. They want to solve the paving problem and move forward. She hoped they could get the paving on the road. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Mitchum moved to adjourn. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer, CMC Deputy City Clerk 14 Council Public Meeting August 9, 1993 COMMENT CARDS FROM AUGUST 9. 1993 PUBLIC MEETING We need to pave all the roads and improve all of Edgewater. Making it a better place to live. Hopefully improve property values and making it more appealing place to live. Pave them all now. That way we will all pay the same amount. Just Do it --All Now Yes we need paved roads. -Felicia VerWay, Howard VerWay If Mango is being used as the main thoroughfare for the city trucks, we feel that Mango (south of 30th) should be one of the first roads paved. We are for the paving of the road but feel that putting it off for whatever reason, will cost us, the taxpayers, more money in the long run. How long and what arrangements will be made to pay these fees when it is done.- Mr. & Mrs. Albert Horne, 3413 Mango Tree Dr. Pave my road. It will be less dust, it will be better on my car. I an 62, 1 do not think I have that much time left to wait 10 years. I am willing for my tax to be raised.- Eva Clay, 3215 Royal Palm I am for paving the roads all at once even if it comes to a bond issue.- Amy Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Yes pave the roads not over 10 years do it sooner.- P J Dillon, 2926 Yule Tree Dr. Do it now -costs will never be less, nor interest rates. Waiting up to 10 years for streets to be paved is not acceptable. The damage to cars from driving on washboard will exceed by far the cost of paving. Pave all the streets at once. Improvements always come back in the re -sale value of the properties. The costs per mile will be less if the entire project can be bid as one job.- Gary A. Lee, 2731 Evergreen Dr. Yes, for road paving which includes east -west arteries, that do not have stop signs or retention. (i.e. 36th Street)- T. Neal Hackett, 3510 Victory Palm Pave the roads now all of them.- Betty Buccini, 2325 Date Palm I feel that the proposal is fair and equitable for all. Thanks for your hard work. -Pat Rains, Jim Proffitt, 2827 Woodland Dr. Yes Pave. But do give priority to roads with the most houses.- Toldo Malagon, 1728 Victory Palm Can't we get a bond to pay for paving?- June Bubacz, 3511 Victory Palm Please consider bond issue the most equitable form of payment for the roads that are needed.- Dorothy Duff, 609 Mooring Lane I am for paving but not raising taxes. I still work at 63 Paving needs to be paid by other means beside taxes. Check with Port Orange and their transportation utility fee. I have lived in 3rd world countries with better living conditions. Pave the roads now and stop the H.S. It is 1993 not 1893. I am for paving but not rasing taxes. I still work at 63 a farm. I got the same for my products as I did 15 years ago. I can not afford more taxes without doing without something. I believe in the democrat method of solving this problem. Get the best plan you can make and put it to a vote by each person paying. We stayed for the whole meeting. 1) What side roads are going to be ok'd for ponds? 2) Why is it going to take so long to do the roads? 3) With the cost going up every year so it would look to me that you would have to go up with taxes every year. it it's is going to take 10 years to do it. 4) You said that the roads should last 10 years so it looks to me when your done you will have to start all over again but it will cost more. 5) I don't mind paying the tax but I think giving you all a raise in pay then come to us and ask us to pay more taxes to pay for something is uncalled for. 6) I would like to know how much money it would cost a year to maintain the dirt roads now and why you did look at this and do something about it back then. -George Dickerson, 2604 Travelers Palm In your determination as to who gets paved first. 1) Your trucks and equipment use Mango constantly, therefore we have more dust, more ruts. I want it paved now. 2) As you do north of Roberts at least give us every other street paved -now not 10 years or 11. 3) At our age 11 years to wait and pay taxes is too long- there must be another way. Please reply to at least question 1.- Marguerite Cobb, 3414 Mango Tree Dr. Salaries do not match what we have to pay today and being a single Female trying to keep my home and service, $6.00 / hr just doesn't allow me to pay anymore of anything-Edwenna Hall My street paved already taxed for it. No more taxes for US- Justin Perrier, 1629 Travelers Palm My street Travelers Palm is already pave. I pay I should not pay taxes to pave other streets.- H Williams, 1704 Travelers Palm %W V Let the property owners pay the same as we did to have street paved- J Carter, Orange Tree Drive. When I purchased my house in Edgewater Landings I paid for improvements and paved roads, why should I be taxed again. You drive people out- not asking them to stay. The engineer commented the roads will last 10 years. Pine Tree Dr. has been resurfaced for one year and is breaking up. My objection is with tax increase, sewer, roads etc. You have made it totally impossible for people to sell their homes. We now are captives of your plans. I want out.- G.M. Small, 1829 Victory Palm The Federal government has just passed the biggest tax increase in history. Local, County, State or Federal Governments must learn to say no. We can no longer afford to pay for all the extras we might like to have.- John Mount 1) Last year the people voted down paving. Seniors and unemployed can not pay more taxes. 2) Seniors who have as only income Social Security can not afford more taxes or added expenses. We have to pay for the hook up for the sewer and the taxes are increased. Get Rid of City Manager and attorney. Save over $100,000.00 + Even in baseball or football you get time out -Give us a break v Ifto August 9, 1993 David Molnar 2117 Travelers Palm Donald Kastner 3036 Mango Tree Dr. Randall Hertz 2019 Kumquat Dominick Fazzone 302 Paradise Lane Tom Cobb 3414 Mango Tree Dr. Judd Rytten 3307 Willow Oak Donald Lyons 2519 Glenwood Al Gilbert 2025 Needle Palm Robert Pough 2925 Yule Tree Dominic Capria 606 Topside Linda Setchfiled 3036 Willow Oak Roger Miracle 2121 Willow Oak George Dickerson 2810 Yule Tree Howard VerWay 2310 Yule Tree Dr. George Naill 1604 Royal Palm Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting 1 v v Dave Coles 1716 Willow Oak Cynitha Coupe' 2724 Evergreen Giovanni Mattera 1724 Victory Palm Richard Chauson 506 Sparrow Michael MCGerty 2520 Umbrella Tree Ray Miller 3110 Sabal Palm Jean Delnigro 3130 Tamarind Neal Hackett 3510 Victory Palm Cynitha Coupe' 2754 Evergreen Mike O'Dwyer 1911 Kumquat Eva Clay 3215 Royal Palm George Naill 1604 Royal Palm Betty Buccini 2325 Date Palom Dr. Charles Gebelein 1730 Umbrella Tree Johnny Watkins 2509 Silver Palm Maria Dryver 2203 Sabal Palm Florence Indyk 2810 Royal Palm Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting 2 Citizens Commenting at Public Meeting Amy Hackett 3510 Victory Palm Howard Duff 609 Mooring Lane George Ewing Mike O'Dwyer 1911 Kumquat Dr. William Anderson 1730 Pine Tree Dr. Jimmy Davis 2936 Travlers Palm John Whittenton 1843 India Palm chuck Gebelein 3116 Woodland Dr. Hal Jones 3015 Sabal Palm A NV BREAKDOWN -PUBLIC MEETING SHEETS AUGUST 9, 1993 FLORIDA SHORES Address of For Paving Street to be Owner Yes/No paved 3036 Willow Oak Already paved Willow 2628 Queen Palm Already paved 27th Street 2910 Needle Palm No 29th Street 1930 Orange Tree No None 2933 Silver Palm Yes Silver Palm 2325 Date Palm Yes Date Palm 2936 Travelers Palm No Travelers Palm 2417 Kumquat Dr. Yes Kumquat 3308 Sabal Palm Yes Sabal Palm 1603 Travelers Palm No 16th Street 2310 Yule Tree Yes 23rd and Yule 2432 Woodland Dr. No Woodland 1903 Pine Tree No 19th Street 3010 Kumquat Yes 30th Kumquat 3413 Mango Tree ---- Mango Tree 3110 Sabal Palm Yes Sabal Palm 3119 Travelers Palm ---- 3119 Travelers 1604 Royal Palm Yes Royal Palm 2804 Yule Tree Yes Yule Tree 2722 Tamarind Yes Tamarind 2717 Orange Tree ---- Tamarind 3130 Tamarind No Tamarind 2413 Victory Palm Yes Victory 2921 Travelers Palm Yes Travelers 2117 Travelers Palm No --------- 3510 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 2504 Juniper Yes Juniper 2108 Hibiscus Yes Hibiscus 3015 Mango Tree Yes Mango Tree 1211 Willow Oak No ---------- 3510 victory Palm Yes Victory 36th 2756 Banyan Tree Yes Banyan 27th 1521 Queen Palm Yes Queen Palm 1521 Queen Palm Yes Queen Palm 1514 Pine Tree No ---------- 1730 Pine Tree Yes ---------- 3307 Willow Oak No ---------- 2754 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 3015 Sabal Palm Yes Sabal Palm 3314 Kumquat Yes ---------- 3116 Woodland No Woodland 3124 Pine Tree Yes Pine Tree NW Address of For Paving Street to be Owner Yea/No paved 2519 Glenwood Yes Glenwood 1908 Royal Palm No ---------- 2731 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 2622 Lime Tree Yes Lime Tree 2304 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 2429 Kumquat No Kumquat 2428 Kumquat No Kumquat 2505 Juniper Yes Juniper 1530 Sabal Palm Yes Sabal Palm 1629 Travelers Yes Paved already 3229 Silver Palm Yes Silver Palm 2722 Tamarind Yes Tamarind 2617 Umbrella Yes ---------- 2920 Travelers ---- ---------- 1916 Lime Tree ---- Lime Tree 3414 Umbrella ---- Victory 1842 Date Palm ---- ---------- 1730 Umbrella No Umbrella 1829 Victory Palm No Victory Palm 2607 Woodland No Woodland 2231 Queen Palm No None 3215 Royal Palm No Royal Palm 2709 Lime Tree Yes Lime Tree 2423 Woodland No Woodland 3039 Mango Tree No Mango Tree 1824 Sabal Palm ? Sabal Palm N. 2829 Yule Tree Yes Yule Tree 2009 Umbrella Tree Yes Umbrella Tree 2817 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 2827 Woodland Yes Woodland 3205 Tamarind No Tamarind 2925 Yule Tree No Yule 3414 Mango Tree Yes Mango Tree 3209 Vista Palm ? "'------- 1819 Victory Palm No Victory Palm 3036 Mango Tree Yes Mango Tree 1223 Willow Oak Yes Willow Oak 2019 Kumquat Yes Kumquat 1503 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 3114 Vista Palm Yes Vista Palm 1503 Victory Palm ---- Victory Palm 1724 Victory Palm ---- Victory Palm 1307 Travelers Yes Sabal Palm 1415 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 2509 Silver No Silver Palm 2727 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 2829 Yule Tree Yes Yule Tree 3011 Queen Palm Yes Queen Palm Address of For Paving Street to be owner Yes/No Paved 1920 Kumquat Yes Kumquat 1920 Kumquat Yes Kumquat 2766 Date Palm Yes Date Palm 1908-10 Fern Palm Yes Fern Palm 2324 Needle Palm Yes Needle Palm 3102 Mango Tree Yes Mango Tree 2810 Yule Tree Yes Yule Tree 2426 Yule Tree Yes Yule Tree 2815 Silver Palm No Silver Palm 3325 Royal Palm Yes Royal Palm 2726 Mango Tree Yes Needle Palm 3323 Kumquat Yes Kumquat 1728 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 1728 Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 2731 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 2028 Needle Palm Yes Needle Palm 2722 Needle Palm Yes Needle Palm 1716 Willow Oak No Willow Oak 2609 Umbrella Tree Yes Umbrella Tree 2514 Lime Tree No ------------- 2727 Evergreen Yes Evergreen 1903 Pine Tree No ------------- 1911 Kumquat No -------- 3016 Needle Palm No Needle Palm 2529 Orange Tree To be determined ------------- 2722 Needle Palm ----- --------- 3414 Mango Tree Remains to be seen Mango Tree 2429 Woodland Yes Woodland 2203 Lime Tree Yes Lime Tree 2904 Yule Tree No Yule Tree 2401 Willow Oak No Willow Oak 3011 Juniper No Juniper 3119 Queen Palm Yes Queen Palm 2109 Umbrella No -------- 2109 Umbrella No ---------- 3039 Needle Palm Yes ---------- 2409 Kumquat Yes Kumquat 1330 Queen Palm Yes ----------- Victory Palm Yes Victory Palm 2536 Umbrella No Umbrella 1960-62 Fern Palm Yes Fern Palm 2130 Needle Palm Yes Needle Palm No- 38 Yes- 78 Other Comments- 6 Blank 10 Total 132 .W OTHERS -u Address of For Paving Street to be Owner Yes/No paved 320 Schooner No ---------- 314 Paradise lane No ---------- 1707 Dayton ---- ---------- 506 Sparrow No ---------- 416 Sandpiper No ---------- 115 N. Riverside No Riverside Dr. 2351 S. Ridgewood No Turgot 1708 Ridgewood No Umbrella Tree 324 Pine Breeze ---- ----------- 1606 S. Riverside ---- ----------- No- 7 Yes- 0 Blank- 3 Total 10