02-22-1994 - Special
E~water Firefighters' PensiolW'und
Minutes
Special Meeting, February 22, 1994
Fire Administration Office, 1605 S. Ridgewood A venue
6:37 p.m.
Call to Order: The Special Meeting of the Edgewater Firefighters' Pension fund was
called to Order at 6:37 p.m. in the Fire Administration Office at 1605 South Ridgewood
A venue, Edgewater.
Roll Call: Members present were Mr. William Vola, Firefighter Michael Hayes, Mr. Ben
Wagner, and Chainnan Al Gilbert. Mr. Robert Morin arrived at 6:40 p.m.
Minutes: Chainnan Gilbert asked if there were any questions regarding the Minutes
submitted for approval for the January 14, 1994 meeting. Mr. Vola asked for some
clarification regarding the date that was discussed for the proposed Ordinance change.
Chainnan Gilbert stated he believed the starting date for the Pension Plan should have been
January of 1990. Mr. Vola stated it should have gone back to November 13, 1989.
Chainnan Gilbert stated because of the paperwork that they have it was put into an
Ordinance that stated the plan began July of 1990, the only way to change that is to get it on
the agenda for Council. He added there would be no problem doing that if that is what the
City wants to do. At that time the guys would have to put their money into it but the City
would not cost the City any money according to the actuary. Mr. Wagner moved to accept
the Minutes as submitted. Firefighter Hayes seconded. Motion CARRIED 3 to 1. Mr. Vola
voted NO.
Cbainnan's ReDort: Chainnan Gilbert stated he would like to make a statement. He
added that because of some of the things he needed to bring to the Board's attention, in the
form of letters that he has answered as a chairman and Trustee Vola is sitting here as a
Trustee and also holding a position as Chief of the Fire Department he just wanted to make
clear that he has to do one or the other if there ends up being a vote on something that he is
talking about. He added he can vote on it as a Trustee but he is more than able to answer
either one way or the other, and Chairman Gilbert has no problem in any of the things that
Trustee Vola has done that he is going to bring up. Chairman Gilbert is not questioning his
authority or integrity. Chairman Gilbert stated he wanted to bring it up and that he would
rule on it when and if it happens that he has to be one or the other. Chairman Gilbert stated
Trustee Vola could comment and talk on whatever he wants as the Chief or if it comes to a
vote he can vote however he wants, but he can't be both. Mr. Vola stated he was more than
capable of making the distinction.
Old Business: Chairman Gilbert stated the first thing they should talk about would be
the election of the Board Secretary. Mr. Morin arrived at this time. Firefighter Hayes stated
at the last meeting he was directed to check with the Firefighters to see who they would like
to be the Secretary and they had chosen him. He added he would accept the position. Mr.
V ola nominated Firefighter Hayes to be Recording Secretary. Mr. Morin seconded. Motion
CARRIED 5-0.
Chairman Gilbert stated the next item of business to go over was the audit by Ernst and
Young. He stated he went to City Hall two weeks before at the request of Ernst and
Young, and they did not reach an agreement on the audit because of some discrepancies of
where and how our auditor came up with the figures. He added they went over the Board
and how it operates, then moved on to doing the audit and the annual report to the State. He
was using last year's that annual report that Mr. Munoz corrected. Chairman Gilbert stated
he refused to talk about it they were going to use Mr. Munoz' corrected figures. Chairman
Gilbert stated he discussed with the auditor where he got the figures for this year and he
stated he got them from the Finance Department. Chairman Gilbert stated he asked the
auditor if he was working for the Finance Department or the Pension Board. He added they
proceeded to go through the report and how it was figured and that there were some
discrepancies. Chainnan Gilbert stated the auditor went to the City to find out how they
valued their investments instead of coming to the Board. Chairman Gilbert knew how it
was done because had asked Shearson Lehman previously and that is how he had done the
figures last year. Chainnan Gilbert stated the auditor agreed if the Board is using one way
and the City is using another then they shouldn't use the City's or the Board should get
with the City and both of them should use it. He reported they did not have an audit and an
Annual Report yet and he had asked for further extension from the State. There was
discussion regarding the progress on completing the Annual Report.
Mr. Vola slated he has some questions. He asked if anybody on the Board got a copy of
last year's report. The Board mem bers stated yes. Mr. Vola stated he requested a copy of
the one that was amended by City Staff and not withstanding some acknowledged
problems that need to be resolved with the technical language of the values of investments
and things of that nature, he can go along with some of that, but he has some real
questions, and it just appears to him that an honest mistake was made when reading some
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of the City's financial reports and he brought their attention to some mistakes. He added the
errors are.honest ~istakes not a matter of anybody trying to pull the wool over any body's
eyes. ChaIrman GIlbert agreed that some of the stuff wa~ honest mistakes and he was not
questioning that, he is questioning the paperwork that he took those figures off of. There
was discussion on how investment worth was figured and also the fact that the Board hired
E~st.& Young to do their audit and they had never contacted them to see how they figure
theIr Investments. They also discussed discrepancies between the City's figures and the
Chairman's figures. Chairman Gilbert stated that he was very upset and that he did contact
each Council member and told them exactly where he is coming from so that if Staff goes
to them and says you've got a problem with your Firefighters' Pension Board they are not
getting blindsided. Mr. Vola stated he was at the Administration Office last Monday night a
week ago from 10:30 p.m. until a little after 1:30 in the morning with a City Councilman
that was quite irate and upset, and he heard what he had to say about a conversation or
phone call that the Chairman had with him. Mr. Vola stated Chairman Gilbert was 2/3
correct in his opening remarks, he had said that he wore the hat of a trustee and he wore the
hat of a Fire Chief. He stated those two are correct, but the third one the Chairman had
missed which is the most important to Mr. Vola is that he also a member of the Pension and
approximately 12% of the monies coming in has his name on it and that's his family and
his security. Mr. Vola stated he would like to know what did he as the Chairman of this
Board tell the members of Council so that we don't get blindsided by the Council.
Chairman Gil bert stated he told the same story to each Councilman. He stated he would go
on record as what he told them. Chairman Gilbert related the conversation he had with the
Mayor and Councilmen stating the only one he didn't contact was Council person Louise
Martin because he didn't have a number for her. Chairman Gilbert stated he apologized to
each Coundlman at the end of the conversation but he still believes that some of the
Councilmen and some of the Staff do not realize that we are still trying to help and not
hinder what is going on.
Mr. Vola stated he was speaking as a Pension Trustee and said that personally he believes
that Chairman Gilbert is half right. He feels that based on some of the comments made at
the meeting tonight as well as some that he had been known to make in the past, it strikes
him that the problem is not so much in the City Finance Department being mistrustful of the
Chairman but the inverse. Mr. Vola stated he feels there is mistrust of Mr. Munoz and his
Department by the Chairman. Vala stated that as the Chairman had pointed out Mr. Munoz
has nothing to gain or lose by anything that occurs within this fund, it is balandng the
figures that is important to a CPA. Mr. Vola stated he has a real problem as a member of
this Board with any member of this Board contacting any elected official without
authorization from the Board. He stated he was sorry but he played the tape of the last
meeting over and over and the Chairman did not have this Board's permission to contact
members of Council and fuss at them about our audit, and that does not come under the
realm of the Chairman of this Pension Board. He added no other member contacts Coundl
and talks to them about the Pension Board and any communication that comes out of this
Board comes out of this Board as a total, not out of each of them as individuals. Mr. Vola
stated one member of Council and the Mayor both flat out told him that some of the
Chairman's comments were construed as threatening legal action against the City and that
the Board had considered legal action against the City. He added he got that from two
different members of the City Council at differing times, so evidently something the
Chairman said led them to believe that this Board had already contemplated actions against
the Councilor Staff in regards to this audit or Annual Report and that is not true. Mr. Vola
added he wanted to go on record and say that the Chairman was not to do that again, not in
his name and not in the Board's name because each and everyone of the Board members
are responsible for the actions of this Board and the actions that are taken in the name of
this Board. Mr. Vola added if the Chairman had a problem with them on a personal basis
that as a taxpayer the Chairman had the same rights as all of the citizens, but not as
Chairman or member of this Pension Board.
Mr. Vola stated Chairman Gilbert sent a letter to Mr. Munoz arising out of the authorization
of this Board at the last meeting. Mr. Vola cited the letter from Mr. Munoz requesting the
Board's consideration of a five year vesting period. He believed the Chairman requested
permission from the Board to reply to Mr. Munoz's letter. Chairman Gilbert stated that was
correct. Mr. Vola stated on the tape Chairman Gilbert also asked that he be allowed to
convey the Board's feelings back to Mr. Munoz in a letter. Chairman Gilbert stated that
was correct. Mr. Vola stated he had read the letter Chairman Gilbert directed to Mr. Munoz,
and if this letter was the intent of the Board then he would like to hear it now because he
does not believe that was what the Board authorized. Mr. Vola statcd Chairman Gil bert's
comments were confrontational, they were unprofessional, and they do not express the
feelings of the Board as there was no hostility in the comments that the Board evidenced on
the tape. Mr. Vola stated that most of the comments in thc letter were the Chairman's
personal opinions and they do not reflect his opinions or anything the Board said in the last
meeting. Mr. Vola stated it was not appropriate and he felt that the Chairman owcd Mr.
Munoz an apology. Mr. Vola also felt Chairman Gilbert owed the Board and apology
because the Chairman did not represent the interests of the Board. Mr. Vola stated he
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understands the Chairman is looking out for the Board, but he feels this letter was done out
of anger and out of a personal nature. Mr. Vola reminded the Chairman and the Board that
c<?ntr~ to the Chairman's statement that this Board cannot function independently of the
CIty It has to function cooperatively and jointly with the City Staff and that all changes have
to be done together. Mr. Vola asked the Board's opinion of the letter. Mr. Wagner stated
the Chairman answered all the questions Mr. Munoz asked and he had no problem with the
letter it was direct and to the point. Mr. Hayes stated he wanted to hear from the Chairman
first before commenting.
Chairman Gilbert discussed the annual report. He stated he was not accusing anyone of
missing funds but the auditors are working for the Board and they did not ask the Board
for the figures. He added he himself might have made a mistake on la.<;;t year's annual
report in transferring the figures. Chairman Gilbert added as far as the letter to Mr. Munoz
if the Board believes that he owes them an apology then he will give it but he does not
believe he owes the Board an apology. Chairman Gilbert stated he did not threaten
anybody, maybe in one or two sentences to one of the Councilmen, but at the end of all
conversations he apologized. He apologized to the Board if they felt that way, but he
believed he was within his rights as the Board did make him Chairman. Mr. Vola stated
none of the trustees has the authority to speak for this Board without this Board's
authorization and it is shown than none of the Board members can do anything
independently it requires the Board's authorization as a body. Mr. Vola stated Al Gilbert
the citizen can say anything he likes, but as soon as he puts on the title Chairman of the
Pension Board he cannot speak for the Board without its consent, and they can all be held
personally liable whether they bought in on it or not. Chairman Gilbert disagreed with him
and stated he would get a legal opinion on it if Mr. Vola would like but on the everyday
operation of the Board, he did nothing wrong, but if the Board feels he owed them an
apology he would apologize. Mr. Wagner stated that somebody has to run the Board's
business on a daily basis as there is always something coming up in the interim between
meetings that has to be taken care of and there has to be some latitude to do it. Firefighter
Hayes asked for a recess at this time. Meeting recessed at 7:33 p.m. Meeting resumed at
7:41 p.m.
There was discussion regarding the necessity to work with Council if there were any
changes to be made to the Pension Plan and that it would be wiser to stay on good terms
with them.
Chairman Gilbert discussed his reasons for replying to Mr. Munoz' memo regarding 5 year
vesting in the manner in which he did. He added that at the end of the letter to Mr. Munoz
he apologized in the closing because after he reread it he thought the letter might be
considered confrontational. Mr. Vola stated if the Chairman had reread the letter and felt the
need to add an apology in the closing, his comment would be why not eliminate the stuff
that might offend somebody and not have to write the apology in the first place. He added
that this letter was not going to be conducive to cooperative effort. Chairman Gilbert stated
he understood what Mr. Vola was trying to say and that in future correspondence he will
keep that in mind and he appreciates him bringing it to his attention.
Chairman Gilbert stated he received a registered letter from Chief Vola stating the notice of
the last two meetings was illegally posted and put the Fire Chief and the Fire Station in a
bad position. Chairman Gilbert stated he wrote a letter back to him regarding putting the
City in a bad position, he explained why the notice for the handicapped was on the bottom
of the agenda as it was brought up at a seminar. He added he takes full responsibility for
putting seven days on there and both meetings were called because there was business that
needed to be done. Chairman Gilbert stated there had to be a way to have a meeting on
short notice and he looked into it and the State Statute said forty-eight hours. There was
discussion regarding what had happened and that down the line they may need to make
accommodations for the disabled to attend their meetings. He apologized for doing it wrong
and appreciated it being called to his attention. Mr. Vola stated there was no intention to
make the Chairman look bad, but under the Sunshine Law he cannot talk to the Chairman
about anything that may come up before the Board and he can't call him to complain about
him choosing a date for a meeting, but if the Chairman has it posted on the agenda that
there is a seven day notification time and it is not posted until four days before the meeting
there is no way it to comply with it.
Chairman Gilbert stated there was another letter from Mr. Vola to Linda Hinson and that
Mr. Vola had every right to question whether the Board needed a CPA for the plan.
Chairman Gilbert stated that Mr. Vola had signed the letter as both the Chief and as
Trustee. Mr. Vola stated he signed it as Pension Trust Fund Member and there was no
reference to being a Trustee. Chairman Gilbert stated this is where he has a problem with a
City Administrator being on the Board. He added there was nothing wrong with it that and
it was perfectly legal. Mr. Vola stated as long as his money was going in there he was
right. Chairman Gilbert stated he wanted to put the line down so they knew who they were
talking to in different times when these things come up. There was discussion of how the
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Board had come to use Ernst & Young as the Board's CPA for the Annual Audit. There
was discussion regarding the difference between a "letter of engagement" and a "letter of
opinion" and the costs and liabilities of each. The Board was not happy with the cost of the
audit. Chairman Gilbert stated to cover themselves they had an independent audit. Mr. Vola
stated he did not understand why they had to spend $1,500 when we never had to do it
before and it was being done by an independent auditor and not by City Staff, and a letter
of engagement would have made them their client. Mr. Vola stated we can't change this
year, but we can keep it from happening again next year. Mr. Wagner stated this was
discussed at the last meeting and no one wanted it to happen again next year. Chairman
Gilbert stated he was looking out for the Board's welfare and he followed the Board
Attorney's advice.
There was discussion of the beginnings of the fund and where the fund was heading in the
future. There was discussion regarding a financial advisor and a meeting every month.
Chairman Gilbert stated it was required to have a meeting quarterly but he doesn't like
leaving the money in an account while it could be making more money by being invested.
Chairman Gilbert stated he has had the best interest of the members and of the Board in
mind when he has taken action and if everybody has problems with what he has done then
he apologized again.
Chairman Gilbert stated they had received notice to pay the FPPT A dues. Mr. Wagner
moved to pay the FPPT A dues in the amount of $100.00. Firefighter Hayes seconded.
Motion CARRIED 4 to 1. Mr. Vola voted NO.
Mr. Vola stated some time ago the Board authorized the Chairman to draft a letter about
getting an ordinance backdating the Pension's effective date to the date of hire and at the
January 14th meeting that was again repeated. He asked where this stcx.xl as they needed an
amendment to the ordinance and all they needed was a letter to the Council requesting it.
There was discussion regarding where this item stood. Meeting recessed at 8:53 p.m.
Meeting resumed 9:01 p.m.
New Business: Chairman Gilbert stated in previous years it was not enforced but this
year the State was requesting that a copy of the Summary Plan be sent with the Annual
Report. Chairman Gilbert had submitted for the Board's review a copy of a Summary Plan.
There was discussion regarding the document he submitted. Mr. Vola stated he would like
to see it tabled and a letter sent to the State with the Annual Report that they were working
on it. Mr. Vola moved to table the Summary Plan until the next meeting so they could have
a chance to go over it. Mr. Morin seconded. Chairman Gilbert stated they do need to get to
this because it is necessary for the operation of the Board and it will be the bylaws for the
Board that they can give it to the membership. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
There was discussion regarding setting regular meeting dates. Mr. Vola moved to have the
following dates as regularly scheduled quarterly meetings: the third Tuesday evening of
January, April, July, and October. Mr. Wagner seconded. There was discussion regarding
the City's Ordinance concerning the number of meetings that could be missed by any Board
member. There was discussion regarding the process for canceling and rescheduling a
meeting. Motion CARRIED 5 TO o.
Chairman Gilbert stated they would need another meeting to approve the Annual Report
and Audit. Chairman Gilbert stated he appreciated their involvement and apologized to the
individual Board members if his actions caused any harm and he will try to keep that in
mind from now on.
Adiournment: There being no more business to come before the Board at this time. Mr.
V ola moved to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Morin seconded. Meeting adjourned at 9:23 p.m.
Minutes Respectfully Submitted By:
Lisa R. Warren, Recording Secretary
If any person decides to appeal any decision made by the pension Board
of Trustees with respect to any matter considered at the above meeting,
that person will need a record of the proceedings and, for such
purpose, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings
is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which
the appeal is to be based.
In accordance with the Americans with
needing a special accommodation to
should contact Fire Administration no
proceeding.
Disabilities Act of 1990, persons
participate in this proceeding
later than 48 hours prior to the
Telephone (904) 424-2445 for assistance, if hearing impaired, telephone
the Florida Relay Service Numbers, 1-800-955-8771 (TOO) or 1-800-955-
8770 (voice), for assistance.
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