03-10-1997 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
MARCH 10, 1997
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Hayman called the Workshop to order at 7 : 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Jack Hayman Present
Councilman Danny Hatfield Excused
Councilwoman Louise Martin Present
Councilman Michael Hays Present
Councilman David Mitchum Present
City Manager George McMahon Arrived at 7 : 03 p.m.
City Attorney Krista Storey Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the Workshop was to discuss the development of the
proposed new fire/rescue station #57 .
Fire Chief Bill Vola made a staff presentation by describing the wide
range of things the Fire Rescue Department handles and the different
tasks that were assigned to Fire/Rescue.
Fire Chief Vola then spoke about the Fire Chiefs' Association
standardizing a numbering system Countywide because of the confusion
regarding which of the cities engines was to respond when working
mutual aid calls . The four numbers assigned to Edgewater were 55, 56,
57 and 58 . The only area in the City that had protection within a
four minute time period was the district marked as 55; the remainder
of them were six to seven to eight minute response times . He further
identified that district 55 was the busiest district and district 57
was the second busiest district.
Fire Chief Vola then described a six year comparison of the number of
incidents the Fire/Rescue Department had handled between 1991 and
1996. They expected a 13% to 15% per increase every year through the
year 2000 .
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Fire Chief Vola then commented on fighting with the inability to
respond to more than one incident with a single unit staff during the
day and at night they were backed up by volunteers . They had 20
active volunteers, many who had jobs during the day. He spoke of the
difficulty of trying to respond to multiple simultaneous incidents
with a single staff unit and as many volunteers as they can call in.
In 1996 there were roughly 240 instances where they had more than one
emergency occurring at a given time.
Fire Chief Vola then commented on comparisons that were done between
New Smyrna, Holly Hill, South Daytona and Edgewater with regard to
population, number of personnel and yearly budget.
Mayor Hayman informed Council that Councilman Hays had suggested they
dismiss the Police Chief for the evening. Police Chief Schumaker left
at this time.
Fire Chief Vola then presented a comparison of response times between
district 55 and district 57 . He further commented on why the four
minute response time was so important.
Fire Chief Vola also provided a comparison of the number of patients
they responded to in district 55 versus district 57 .
Fire Chief Vola then commented on property loss due to fire. What
they had seen over the last few years was that the amount of property
loss to fire had gone up and the ratio of property that had been lost
to fire versus what they had been able to save had also increased.
Councilman Mitchum mentioned the City moving out towards I-95 with a
couple of things but he wasn' t sure how long that would be. Fire
Chief Vola identified 1 . 75 miles was about the driving time they could
travel within a four minute time period. He spoke of doing the same
thing that Daytona did with Pelican Bay by putting a Fire Station
within the community.
Mayor Hayman reminded the Council that starting next year DOT was
going to begin the purchase right-of-way to widen SR 442 . He also
mentioned they had begun deliberations with the Orlando MPO to
increase the I-4 corridor and also to begin discussions with Orlando
for connectivity between SR 442 and the Greenway. He spoke of the
need to be prepared to accommodate the benefit widening SR 442 was
going to bring to the community.
City Manager McMahon felt the development west was going to occur
before development south. He felt they would see Cory Estates want to
annex into the City as well as other people wanting to come into the
City. He felt they would also see an increase in accidents once SR
442 was widened. He felt eventually they would have to look at a
station to the west and a station to the south.
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Mayor Hayman spoke of the interest in sewer, water, utilities and
other services and the lack of fire protection south of the City. He
also agreed they would need two stations and that it was a matter of
which came first, 58 or 57 . He felt it would probably take two years
to develop anything to the south or the west.
City Manager McMahon felt Edgewater would probably be a City with
20, 000 residents by the year 2000 and 23, 000 to 25, 000 residents by
the year 2005 and that the major population was yet to come . He felt
after the development began to occur to the west that it would keep
expanding to the west.
Mayor Hayman commented on trying to fairly assess growth to pay its
fair share. City Manager McMahon spoke of asking the Council in
Maitland to impose an impact fee to build a future fire facility based
on the benefits to be incurred by the people who would benefit from
it. They were the first in the State of Florida to begin doing that.
Instead of making them pay the full impact fee for the full
development up front they said as the build out occurred for every
square foot they would be assessed a fire impact fee at the time the
building permit was issued. He felt Council needed to consider an
ordinance before development exploded.
Councilman Hays commented on the issue not being whether or not they
needed to build another fire station but where they were going to find
the dollars to do it. He felt they needed to be creative and find a
revenue stream that would be there to meet the needs of the community.
He felt they needed to plan for future capital equipment and that an
impact fee or assessment may be an ideal mechanism for that. He felt
they needed to have funds available in order to plan ahead.
Councilman Hays then commented on the level of service of the calls
the City responded to and the level of service changing with the
training they were able to provide. He wasn' t sure why they were
having more calls and if it was because of the aging population. He
felt they needed to be able to put a mechanism in place where they
could be reimbursed and bill for some of the services that the City
provided, which he didn' t feel was totally unreasonable .
City Manager McMahon spoke of a city that was seriously looking at
providing emergency room services to its community.
Councilman Hays then spoke of not being able to abandon a patient to
respond to another call. He felt we were trouble waiting to happen.
He didn' t have a single person in the community with a negative
comment about the discussion they were having tonight. It was
unreasonable to think they could continue with the level of service
when the population continued to increase but it was a matter of
finding the money for it. He felt they needed to redirect their
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budget dollars and their focus and needed to take care of the area
that needed it the most. He was proud of the level of service
Edgewater provided and felt it couldn' t be beat anywhere . City
Manager McMahon identified the top priority was making sure the level
of service didn' t deteriorate.
Mayor Hayman felt if they didn' t do something they would be pushing
the envelope.
Mayor Hayman identified they needed to reaffirm that the level of
service was where they were going to stay and that they would be
remiss if they did anything otherwise. He liked the idea of
recovering the costs, which he felt they needed a mechanism in place
to do.
Mayor Hayman commented on the costs associated with officers and
firefighters who respond to false alarms . City Manager McMahon
identified that since Council had passed an ordinance that the number
of false alarm calls had decreased by at least 60% and the City had
obtained about $10, 000 .
Mayor Hayman spoke of the County having a contract with an outfit that
comes that were exclusive transporters and they have a recovery
mechanism. The taxing district collects taxes ever year for the
indigent and needy in this County and if there were some in the City
he felt there should be a mechanism by which they can capture
repayment for some of the services they were going to the emergency
room for.
City Manager McMahon felt the three most significant points were
staffing, location and the revenue stream to support this . He felt
the most critical issue was not where they were going to get the money
for the fire station and that it was where they were going to get the
money to annually support the budget for personnel . They had enough
in the fund balance to deal with the building without taxing people
more to get there. He estimated the cost of the building would be
$275, 000 minimum.
Councilman Hays pointed out for the public that the money for the
building started when the Station on Mango by Public Works was sold to
Public Works for the expansion of the Wastewater Plant.
Councilman Hays commented on the fire insurance rating of Class 7 that
the City had. He wanted to know what rating Fire Chief Vola suspected
they would have and what type of savings a homeowner would have on
their fire insurance. Fire Chief Vola identified what he had seen as
a rule generally would not drop a community more than one point on any
given rate. He expected they would go down to a Class 6 but
identified what that meant to the average homeowner was dependent upon
their insurance company.
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Councilman Hays felt there was no big expense unless they didn' t do
it.
Councilwoman Martin confirmed they had money available to start the
project. Fire Chief Vola identified Council voted to allow the
Utilities Director to purchase the old fire station for the Wastewater
Treatment Plant expansion. Council earmarked that money for the
construction of a new fire station at the south end of the City.
Mayor Hayman commented on the proposal to man a new fire station at a
cost of about $300, 000 for eight new employees .
Mayor Hayman felt there were other things they could do to capture
some of the cost to looking at the demand and needs . If they had new
growth he felt the growth should be correctly assessed for the
services they receive in that area. He felt there was nothing wrong
with asking a developer to build a fire station and there was nothing
wrong with taking the area that needed ex-number of personnel and
working out a mechanism to defray all or part of the cost for those
personnel .
Mayor Hayman wanted a detailed analysis done for every department to
re-justify every position and see if there weren' t some positions they
could consolidate. City Manager McMahon considered that a function of
their budget activities anyway. He considered fees and recovery costs
a bonus . He asked Council to allow him six to twelve months to create
a public safety concept unique to the public safety tradition.
City Manager McMahon felt current employees that were willing could be
trained and certified and used as an available response team under
Fire Chief Vola. This was not a replacement for full time people but
filling in the gaps until they got to the point where they had
established fee recoveries that could support financially the full-
time people they needed.
Mayor Hayman commented on speaking with other Police Chiefs and Fire
Chiefs throughout the State and he only found one that supported the
public safety concept. He further commented on the difficulties
involved with merging the Fire Department and Police Department since
both fields had become so technically oriented and specialized.
Mayor Hayman wasn' t sure how many of the employees would want that
responsibility. After speaking with some of the professionals in the
field, he couldn' t endorse that.
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Councilman Hays pointed out that people choose their careers by their
education, training and abilities . He felt there was a special spark
in people to do that and not everybody was cut out to be in health
care as it related to other employees serving as a response team.
They needed to evaluate that in the personnel first. Before they
think they can do it he suggested they see if they had the people with
the ability and the desire to do it. City Manager McMahon didn' t
disagree and recognized that because of his own personal
circumstances . Councilman Hays felt there were a whole lot of
problems they could create .
City Manager McMahon identified that three current Fire Department
employees used to work for the Parks & Recreation Department and used
to respond. He felt these were valuable people. He wouldn' t put
somebody out there that didn' t have the proper certification and
training.
There was a five-minute recess at this time. Mayor Hayman recessed
the meeting at 8 : 00 p.m. and reconvened at 8 : 05 p.m.
Fire Chief Vola pointed out on a map the proposed location of a fire
station with respect to some additional annexations and growth to the
south area of the community.
Fire Chief Vola spoke of having an opportunity to have the developer
provide the facility for the future impact they would create with that
development. He felt a fire station should be west of I-95 so they
could get the maximum coverage area without a lot of overlap.
Councilman Hays identified they should plan for a site at the entrance
to the Water Plant where in cases such as hurricanes it could be used
as a headquarters . The Water Plant was currently used as the Command
Post.
City Manager McMahon pointed out they had an offer on the table to
purchase 40 acres of ground that was very close to the Water Plant for
a very reasonable sum of money. He had Mr. Wadsworth evaluating it
and wanted to get a real estate appraisal on the land. He would then
come back to Council . He also spoke of developers inherently making
concessions on land to site a fire station, which would enhance their
development plan.
Mayor Hayman identified if they built the right kind of facility, it
could be converted for other uses as well .
City Manager McMahon then pointed out that 95% of the calls were not
fire calls and that most were advanced life support emergency rescue,
which he felt they may need a different type of facility for than for
a complete fire operation. He also felt they needed to look at the
type of facility as there was also a great need for storing equipment.
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Mayor Hayman felt they had reached the point where they understood
what the issue was, what the City' s interests were and they had
reaffirmed what their response time would be in this City. The two
issues that still needed to be refined were the proposal for public
safety verses some other options . He then identified what those
options were with regard to additional staff that was identified in a
memo from City Manager McMahon to the Council dated March 10, 1997 .
Mayor Hayman felt they needed to look at not only recouping reasonable
costs for advanced life support but also look at the use of making
growth pay for itself and how that would work with regard to creating
fire fees or an assessment district.
Mayor Hayman summarized where they were by identifying the two
distinct questions as being identifying a near term location for the
next fire station 57 and if it should be in that zone in Florida
Shores or should they consider other aspects . He felt they also
needed to look at creative funding mechanisms and any other resource
of revenue to help garner $300, 000 to start off with for the employee
costs .
Councilman Hays commented on when our guys go on a medical call they
may start an IV. When EVAC gets to the scene and transports a patient
to the hospital they get back the IV fluids but EVAC then generates a
bill to the patient for work that was being done by the City' s EMTs
and he felt the City should be able to bill for their services. They
needed to be able to generate charges for the services they provide .
He spoke of EVAC collecting the profits and the City' s EMTs were doing
the work. If they can' t bill the patient they need to bill EVAC for
the work the City was doing for them. He then mentioned reading that
EVAC had only collected about 50% of its billing which he felt was
pretty poor. He also mentioned that EVAC was subsidized greatly.
Fire Chief Vola informed Councilman Hays that they were in the process
of getting a Medicare/Medicaid provider number. He was of the
understanding that all it took was amending the existing resolution
dealing with fees that were on the books for fire services that would
authorize them to pursue additional charges .
There was a brief discussion regarding the fees to be charged being
whatever the reasonable and customary fees and charges were in this
district.
Councilman Mitchum confirmed they were talking about future growth in
district 58 and identified the growth was already in district 57 . He
felt there was no decision over where the next fire station needed to
go and that district 57 needed the fire station.
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Fire Chief Vola identified there was an increasing number of small
communities that were going through creating a fire district and they
assess an annual fee on every building within that district in order
to get the cost of emergency services off of the ad valorem tax rolls
and reflect the actual expense of every part of that emergency
service. City Manager McMahon pointed out that Port Orange was
looking at a dedicated amount of assessment for every property. If
Council were to go that direction he suggested they proportionately
reduce the millage rate to the amount of assessment they would have if
they do that. Hereafter instead of making that part of the General
Fund and the assessed millage rate that would become a special
assessment and be billed the same way the taxes were.
Mayor Hayman pointed out that they would still be short $300, 000 in
that assessment district for the additional needed personnel to man a
new fire station.
Mayor Hayman spoke of advanced life support people becoming more
involved in preventive medicine as well as family practice issues . He
felt there was a change taking place in the Fire Department and that
they would find in the future the firefighters, advanced life support
personnel were going to be an integral part of emergency medicine,
family practice and preventive medicine as well.
Mayor Hayman again identified the two issues were location and funding
for eight additional personnel. He then summarized the discussion
that had taken place up to this point and the items staff was going to
look further into.
It was determined there was a need for a fire station in district 57
and that they needed to proceed with a building.
City Manager McMahon informed Council they had the money to move ahead
with the facility and he wanted them to authorize himself and Fire
Chief Vola to procure the architectural engineering services . City
Attorney Storey identified the Council had already done that at the
previous meeting by approving moving forward with an RFP.
City Manager McMahon asked Council about a timeline for the next
meeting for them to get this together and suggested they do this
sometime toward the end of April .
Councilman Hays asked if they could go ahead with the building
structure itself and proceed with that. Mayor Hayman informed City
Manager McMahon to put it on their next Council meeting agenda. City
Manager McMahon identified they would have it on the next agenda to
move ahead with the construction of it after they got the RFP. He
wanted to come back to Council in 30 days with a developed report for
them.
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ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Martin moved
to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 8 : 40 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
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