10-28-1998 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
OCTOBER 28, 1998
7 :00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 7 : 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman Present
Councilman James Gornto Present
Councilman Myron Hammond Present
Councilman Gary Roberts Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the workshop was to discuss the possible relationship
between the City of Edgewater and the YMCA in an attempt to show the
citizenry of Edgewater the benefits of the YMCA.
Interim City Manager Hooper described the process they would follow
tonight. First they would hear from the YMCA, who would walk them
through a Powerpoint presentation and describe the program for the
YMCA as it was proposed to be located in the City. They would then
take a break for Council to move into the audience so they could watch
a video that they couldn' t see from the dais . After that he and Parks
& Recreation Director Jack Corder would walk them through a compare
and contrast.
Interim City Manager Hooper identified Council requested there be a
public box placed out front for citizen input. As of 4 : 30 p.m. today,
there was a total of eight letters; four in support, three in
opposition and one that described a need for more information. All of
the questions identified in the letters had been compiled and would be
shown on the overhead projector, which they would take a shot at
answering.
Interim City Manager Hooper felt Council should ask questions as they
went through the presentation. At the end of the presentation they
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would open it up to the citizens for public input, at which time
Council and staff would answer any questions from the citizens. When
they wound up the night, they should have a very clear understanding
of the pros and cons, all of the issues, what they get for the money
and if there was a shortcoming what that was .
Bob Ludlow, Volunteer Board Member with the YMCA, introduced the
people that were present to represent the YMCA, Dave Dukett, Executive
Director for the YMCA; Wayne Bostic, current CEO of the YMCA of the
Greater Daytona Beach Area; and Randy Brown, new CEO for the local
YMCA, which covered from Palm Coast all the way down to property
inclusive of Edgewater.
Mr. Ludlow referred to a handout called "YMCA At a Glance" and
presented statistics with regard to the national corporation called
"The YMCA of the USA".
Mr. Ludlow identified Edgewater met the criteria for a YMCA to work.
He was having a hard time understanding why Edgewater didn' t want a
YMCA.
Mr. Ludlow then commented on why he cares about the YMCA as a member
there and what difference it makes for him and his family and for
other people.
Dave Dukett, Executive Director for the YMCA, commented on the family
programs available for everyone from youth to senior that were going
on at the YMCA. Mr. Ludlow commented on the day camps .
Mr. Ludlow polled the audience and asked who had been living in the
community over 5, 10, and 20 years and how many people worked, or went
to or learned to swim at a YMCA. He then commented on the importance
of learning to swim in Florida because of all of the water bodies .
Mr. Ludlow then commented on the need for a collaborative effort from
Edgewater and the community, the need to share responsibility for
services and avoiding duplication of efforts when the Y and cities
were doing the same thing.
Mr. Ludlow then commented on the proposed facility which included the
gymnasium, nautilus/free weights, aerobic room, fitness testing lab,
day nursery, racquetball courts, whirlpool/sauna, 25 yard/meter pool,
teen/senior area and locker rooms .
Mr. Ludlow then commented on the proposed programs which included
fitness, aquatic, weight training, basketball, volleyball, racquetball
senior programs, teen programs, dance classes, etc.
Mr. Ludlow pointed out that the Daytona YMCA had a handicapped program
that was nationally recognized. Whatever the community wanted and had
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a need for was what the Y serviced. The Daytona Beach Y wanted to
shake its hand with the community of Edgewater to come together on a
collaboration and meet the needs of the community. He informed
Council what they did today would affect the next seven generations .
Mr. Ludlow commented on an article submitted by Dr. Charles Gebelein
to the Observer newspaper in the Letter to the Editor section.
Everyone watched a video that told a couple of stories about people
that had been helped by the YMCA.
Mr. Ludlow introduced his daughter Kitty who was born with rubella and
was crippled and commented on the specialists at the Y who provided
emotional therapy. She learned to swim at the Y when she was six and
was more at home in the water than she was on land.
Mr. Ludlow further commented on what he felt bringing the YMCA to the
community would do. He further commented on trust being important
with any type of deal . He felt the YMCA was a very trustworthy
organization.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council that Mr. Corder was going
to briefly describe the Master Plan. After that they were going to
talk of the building with and without the YMCA and then he was going
to lead them through a program to talk of the facilities and the
programs themselves with and without the YMCA.
Mr. Corder then went over the YMCA Conceptual Floor Plan and the
Recreation Center Conceptual Floor Plan to be placed on the 26-acre
site. They were concentrating on the building now. The rest of the
park would be developed at a future date. Between the two floor
plans, there was over a 9, 000 square foot difference in the buildings .
Interim City Manager Hooper further commented on the size differences
and number of rooms depending on if the City were to go with or
without the YMCA. He further described the difference in cost being
based on the layout of the interior space.
Interim City Manager Hooper then did an overall comparison based on if
the City were to do a joint venture with the YMCA or not and described
Capital Improvement, Size of Facility, Facilities, Programs, Staffing,
Maintenance Cost, Insurance, Hours, Construction Schedule, and User
Fees.
Interim City Manager Hooper answered questions asked by Doris Hill,
Lincoln Road and Councilwoman Lichter with regard to the User Fees.
Interim City Manager Hooper continued his presentation by describing
Ownership of Real Property, Debt Service, Total Annual Operating Cost
to City, and Non-Monetary Benefits .
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Interim City Manager Hooper then answered the 16 questions that were
provided in advance; 11 from by Bob Garthwaite and 5 from Frank Wells .
After his presentation, he identified it would be open for Council to
ask questions of the YMCA or staff and then they would go through the
same process with the public.
Mayor Allman called a five-minute recess at this time.
The following citizens spoke:
Comments made by Jeff Eissler and John Stearns were not recorded.
Dick Martinez, pointed out they started with a $300, 000 Recreation
Center which had increased to $3 .5 million or $4 million.
Mr. Martinez felt there was no way the YMCA would make the first
year' s budget of $517, 000 minus the $50, 000 that the City would
contribute with a thousand memberships and he asked the YMCA staff as
to what the shortfall was going to be for the first year and if they
had forecast the shortfall for years one through five. Mr. Ludlow
didn' t have an exact deficit because as the structure was being built
they did pre-membership drives. He hoped to have 1, 000 units when the
doors opened. There may be a deficit for year one. Mr. Martinez
wanted the public to be aware that this wouldn' t be paying for itself
in capital or operating funds for a significant period of time.
Interim City Manager Hooper spoke of the manner in which they approach
it. There was a difference between Port Orange' s and Edgewater' s
approach as Port Orange had debt service from day one. If they had a
shortfall it wasn' t the City' s or the taxpayer' s problem.
Mr. Martinez spoke of the $1 . 5 million as a result of the
infrastructure of the park and the road. Interim City Manager Hooper
identified that had always been. Mr. Martinez pointed out this was
the first time they had heard of it. Councilman Gornto informed him
that was not true.
Mr. Martinez couldn' t think of a better partner than the YMCA. He
just hoped they planned for the deficits and that it didn' t come back
to the City. Mr. Duckett commented on Crescent City having a hard
time. Mr. Martinez wished them success .
Mayor Allman stated there was never talk of a $375, 000 Recreation
Center. Interim City Manager Hooper explained Mr. Martinez was
talking about years' past before the current Council was in office.
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, did not support the City building a
municipal gymnasium but he strongly supported the joint venture with
the YMCA.
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Ed Keenan, 1905 Pine Tree Drive, felt by going together with the YMCA
they would make a more attractive building with more attractive
facilities in it that would attract more people to use it.
Gertrude Zint, commented on the pool at the YMCA in Daytona being
closed as a result of not having enough money to operate it and she
questioned why the other YMCA' s didn' t support it. Mr. Duckett
informed her that was the YWCA who was not a part of the YMCA.
Ms. Zint spoke of the YMCA proposing a 25 meter pool . They had a
perfectly good 25 yard pool at Aqua Park. She has been swimming at
Aqua Park for years . She didn' t know why they should put Mr. Stearns
out of his place. He was a taxpayer and had lots of programs .
Rochelle Herschberg Ganino, 1909 S. Riverside Drive Unit 6, was
impressed by the presentation. She questioned if they really needed a
YMCA and expressed concern about the funding. She spoke with
neighboring cities and found in each case there was no co-mingling of
funds. She provided Council with the list of the cities she spoke to
which identified the YMCA facility status . She then commented on
needing insurance to cover the structure as well as the pool . She had
a problem with the residents paying a membership fee to get in after
the City gave $1 million and free land. She also commented on the
number of senior citizens that live in the City and asked if they had
an assurance that senior citizens wouldn' t be turned away. She wanted
to know who made the determination if someone could or couldn't afford
it. They had City park programs and a private business offering pool
hours. Edgewater Landing and Hacienda had their own pools as did many
condos, townhomes, and private residents . She questioned why they
would want to offer a duplication of services at such an expensive
price. She then commented on a newspaper article that quoted members
of the Council as saying there was no need for a referendum since
there was no referendum on the fire hall. She felt they should find
out if the people of Edgewater wanted the YMCA and further expressed
concern with children being asked. She then expressed concern with
the City being opened up to another lawsuit due to Florida Statutes
saying City and private moneys shall not being mixed unless it
benefitted all of the citizens . Once all was said and done they still
wouldn' t have ball fields for the kids, which she felt was what they
needed right now. She felt they needed to look to the City' s coffers
and see what their priorities were.
Sandy Jones, immediate past President, representing the Southeast
Volusia Chamber of Commerce, identified from the business community
standpoint they wholeheartedly supported a recreational facility in
this area for the youth as well as the community at large. From
working with many prospects from an economic development standpoint
the second question was always what do they have for recreation for
the youth. From that standpoint, she absolutely supported a
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recreational facility in this area. As an Edgewater citizen, she very
much supported the idea of working in collaboration with the YMCA as
she felt it would bring quite an attribute to the City. There were a
lot of kids and seniors who could benefit from a facility of this
type.
H. G. Brad Cleveland, New Smyrna Beach, expressed great sympathy for
John Stearns. He felt the community could still support other
facilities and still have a YMCA which had a unique opportunity as a
family oriented training ground that helped the recreation department.
Dr. Charles Gebelein, 1730 Umbrella Tree Drive, pointed out four
months ago the YMCA had made a presentation at the Christian Life
Center. It was approved by an 80o margin. He then referred to a
brochure he had which identified the property adjacent to the
Christian Life Center on 10th Street had been chosen as the site for
the Southeast Volusia YMCA, which was going to be leased on a long-
term basis for $1 per year. The YMCA was going to build the entire
building and there was going to be a pool eventually. He questioned
if Edgewater should put $1 million into something that would have been
developed anyway. He further commented on the site development being
done by now if there hadn't been any interference in trying to
relocate where the YMCA would be.
Dr. Gebelein then questioned why Edgewater should be the only
community involved in putting up a facility which would be a Southeast
Volusia County YMCA. He then commented on visiting the Port Orange
YMCA and it being a nice facility. He also visited the Port Orange
Recreational Center. He felt Edgewater should be seeking cooperative
funding on this with other cities . He didn' t have the same problem
with co-mingling as others might. He was disturbed that the paving of
Turgot wasn' t going to be paved all the way to the facility with the
funds available now.
Dr. Gebelein then commented on the location being considered and felt
the Turgot location was the best location that could have been picked.
It was great for Edgewater but wasn' t the most accessible place as he
felt 10th Street would have been much better.
Geraldine Popovich, 3035 Travelers Palm Drive, was all for the YMCA.
Tanya Eissler, Travelers Palm Drive, identified yesterday her son
found out there was a meeting about this tonight and in less than 24
hours got 100 signatures. She felt maybe the people they were
representing weren' t showing up at the Council meetings . They were
watching what the Council did. A lot of senior citizens don' t want
the YMCA but there were a lot of kids that do and she felt the Council
represented everyone in the City.
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Ron Prekup, 1829 Lime Tree Drive, grew up around YMCA' s and most of
his kids learned to swim at the YMCA. At first he was against this
but had changed his mind because he didn' t have all of the answers .
He further spoke about not being informed. He was enlightened after
the last work session.
Mr. Prekup spoke of having two seniors at his house that lived with
them and he would love to get his father out to walk around the YMCA.
He knew the YMCA had special programs for seniors . He then spoke
about no child being turned away.
Mr. Prekup spoke of Mayor Allman recognizing the need to do something
for the youth and recreation in the City.
Mr. Prekup then spoke about the residents paying most of the tax base
because of Edgewater having a small commercial tax base. He spoke of
prospective businesses looking to move to Edgewater that wanted to
know what Edgewater had to offer and what was available for their
kids. He then commented on vandalism that occurs because the children
have nothing better to do.
Mr. Prekup felt the YMCA would help the youth with building their
character and their morale.
Mr. Prekup further identified he was 100% for the YMCA.
Mary Hassett, Travelers Palm Drive, felt they did an excellent
presentation and wished it was built already. She felt this would be
good for her and her son who was twelve years old. She spoke of the
sports in the City being limited. This was beneficial to children as
well as older people. She was all for the YMCA. She felt they would
be surprised at how many people in this community would like to join
the YMCA and do a pre-registration. She also felt this would add to
their property values and would bring business to Edgewater.
Patrick Quinn, 107 Azalea Road, had been here since August and was
here for the sun, the beach and the weather. It sounded to him like
he was going to get a Chevy but was being offered a Cadillac. He was
ready to join the YMCA.
Robert Jackson, 1864 Coco Palm Drive, felt the presentation was
excellent. He was 14, didn' t pay taxes and didn' t vote but he instead
lets everybody else control his life and make the decisions for what
he does . Edgewater had nothing to offer the teenagers . What the YMCA
was offering was a variety of things he would be interested in going
to and putting his heart into it.
David Turner, Willow Oak Drive, felt if they didn' t buy the Cadillac
now he didn' t know of a dealership that would take a trade-in. He
strongly supported the YMCA.
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Michael Wessler, Freshman Class President, New Smyrna Beach High
School, noticed at the Middle School there was no school spirit and
everyone had a negative attitude. Once they got to the high school
and there were more organized things, people were proud of their
school. If the YMCA had organized things there to do for different
age groups then people would be proud of their City and the YMCA. He
was also part of the Swim Team. He noticed the YMCA would be paying
back $50, 000 a year and in ten years they would have gained that money
back and would have extra money in the process . He also supported the
YMCA.
Councilwoman Lichter wished they might be able to think of a way not
to put Mr. Stearns of Aqua Park out of business and felt there might
be a way to incorporate and work together and explore some ways that
he could be used for specialty things .
Councilwoman Lichter identified in the other cities where there were
YMCA' s they also had other recreational facilities and centers . One
of the needs in Edgewater besides recreation was a center; a facility
they could rent out for weddings and other occasions which would bring
in revenue. She further commented on the need to have a kitchen at
the facility.
Councilman Hammond spoke of being all for businesses . He understood
Mr. Stearns dilemma but felt it really wasn' t a dilemma. He was in
the automotive repair business and further commented on the other
automotive repair businesses that have opened up in Edgewater. He
identified with the YMCA they would have the health and wellness and
would be an overflow which he felt Mr. Stearns would pick up a lot of
customers from.
Councilman Hammond spoke to people in Edgewater Landing who said they
can' t get into a lot of the activities at Edgewater Landing.
Councilman Hammond spoke with the fifth graders and he was surprised
by what they said they wanted. The only place he has gotten negative
comments was at the Council meeting. Everywhere he goes he asks
people their opinion and hadn' t heard anything negative.
Councilman Hammond was all in favor of the YMCA.
Mayor Allman identified the workshop was called to show what the
benefits to the community and the citizens would be. He felt what he
had heard tonight was the benefits far outweighed any derogatory
action towards the YMCA. He believed it would increase property
values and entice businesses to come to town and entice people to move
to Edgewater. He felt a $2 million facility at a cost of $1 million
to the City made good sense to him. He believed this was a very good
partnership for the City to get into. He was wholeheartedly behind
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the YMCA and felt the citizens had shown there was an overwhelming
majority in support of the YMCA. He further identified that it was
the right thing to do.
Councilman Roberts spoke about New Smyrna turning it down. He felt it
was their loss . They had an opportunity that wouldn' t come around
again. He also spoke of co-mingling funds. He didn' t think it would
have a negative effect on Mr. Stearns business and hoped it would
become a magnet for all swimming events and competitions in Southeast
Volusia. He felt they needed to have something for the kids to do.
They offered a lot for the seniors . He felt it was a win-win
situation for the City, a great thing for the community and that they
needed to take advantage of it.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on mixing teens and seniors and how it
works because when the seniors were using it the teens weren' t there
and when the teens were using it the seniors weren' t there. She
didn' t feel it was an outrageous concept and felt that it could work.
Mayor Allman informed everyone last night his daughter had a baby and
that he was a grandfather for the first time.
Interim City Manager Hooper was hearing a consensus to continue what
they were doing by developing a contract with the YMCA and bringing it
back to Council for a public hearing. The YMCA would come back at the
90-day period to describe how the fundraising had gone. They would
also have back the site plan with McKim & Creed. By the second
meeting in December, both of those items should be brought back and
placed in front of Council.
It was the consensus of Council to continue.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Gornto moved to
adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:23 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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