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10-19-1998 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP OCTOBER 19, 1998 6:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Allman called the Workshops to order at 6: 00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Randy Allman Present Councilman James Gornto Present Councilman Myron Hammond Present Councilman Gary Roberts Present Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Excused MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of the workshops was to receive an update on the Recreation Complex project from McKim & Creed. At 6: 30 p.m. a second workshop will be held to receive an update on the YMCA from Wayne Bostic. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council the first workshop was to talk about the Master Plan for the 26-acres. McKim & Creed was going to walk them through what they had done to date. They were going to show them three alternatives . He encouraged Council questions as they were going through the presentation. They would be looking for input on what the Council thought of the three and actual selection or a recommendation for them to go forth and finish the planning phase. They would be discussing details with regard to the environmental issues, drainage, transportation and access . Interim City Manager Hooper then informed Council the second workshop was to talk about the YMCA. It had been 30 days since they authorized them to go back and raise some funds . They were going to come back and update the Council. He had provided Council with a list of questions he had gathered from two of the citizen input sessions he had been to and things he felt they needed to address with the Y or at least have addressed by the time the contract was brought back before Council. 1 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 Mark Veenstra, McKim & Creed, identified they were here to present a progress report on their conceptual master planning efforts for the Edgewater Recreational Park. With him tonight was Paul Ambler of McKim & Creed and Joe Young with Biological Consulting Services. Mr. Veenstra proposed three separate phases; the conceptual master plan, to be completed tonight with the presentation; the preliminary master plan, which they would present at the November 16th meeting and the final master plan, which they would present at the December 21st meeting. Mr. Veenstra pointed out there had been some interest in environmental issues . He turned the meeting over to Mr. Young who identified what he had found during his review of the site. Mr. Young identified the study they had done so far was the field work. They were in the process of preparing a report that would put all of the information into a booklet. Mr. Young identified they encountered a couple of species of interest such as gopher tortoises and scrub jays . They had identified in the areas they had reviewed so far 16 gopher tortoise burrows that were either active or inactive. He pointed out the area that the scrub jays were using. They had one family of scrub jays that appeared to be using the site. Mr. Young identified gopher tortoises weren' t a real big issue as there were several opportunities for working on a site and taking care of the gopher tortoises . They could relocate them, do a taking permit, or put a preserve onsite. Scrub jays were a little more difficult. There was mitigation that was allowed for impact to scrub jay habitat or they could enhance the site and preserve areas on the site for the scrub jays and co-exist with this particular species and still have the park function with certain types of plans . Councilman Gornto asked if any other protected species inhabit the gopher burrows . Mr. Young informed him they didn' t see any others but there were several other species that can inhabit them such as indigo snakes . If they relocate gopher tortoises the permit also allows them to relocate indigo snakes . Mr. Young referred to the areas on a map where the gopher tortoises and scrub jays were found. Mr. Veenstra then explained the access easement that would be required that must remain from the end of Turgot Avenue over to the school property. He also spoke of having to have an acre to an acre and a half for some kind of stormwater management facility. He then commented on the railroad and providing an adequate buffer for the 2 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 users of the park from the railroad. This also co-existed with a buffer that needed to be provided for the scrub jays . Mr. Veenstra identified there were approximately . 12 acres of wetlands associated on the site which were identified in blue on the map which required a post construction permit from the Corp of Engineers . Mr. Veenstra spoke of looking at three alternatives of how to lay the site out and with the building program which the City gave to them of what would be desired in the park. The first was trying to conserve as much of the scrub jay habitat as possible, the second was trying to do a 50/50 build with the scrub jays as far as maintaining the habitat and the third would be to position the building where the building would be optimal which meant they would have to expand on the scrub jay habitat. He further showed Council the plans for the site based on the three alternatives they looked at. Mr. Veenstra identified they wanted input on the plans so it could be incorporated into the design and presented again to Council next month in the preliminary format. Councilwoman Lichter wondered if the Recreation Director or someone from the Parks & Recreation Committee wanted to provide input. Councilman Roberts asked if the six acres was the minimum space that had to be put aside for the scrub jays . Mr. Young identified the scrub jay habitat that was onsite was 6. 6 acres . When they are trying to get something permitted they try to come up with about the same amount of area to show they wouldn't have a significant effect on this habitat of this particular family of scrub jays . It' s negotiable to some degree and was federal law. Councilwoman Lichter asked where the wetlands were. Mr. Young informed her the wetlands would be impacted. They were a very small area and were below the thresholds of the Corp of Engineers and St. Johns . He also identified it might become part of the excavation for a stormwater pond. Councilwoman Lichter questioned if there was room for a picnic area on Alternative 3 . Mr. Young assured her there was . A gentleman in the audience asked if they could mitigate the scrub jays and if so what the acreage would be that it would take. Mr. Young informed him it was two to one but they had to be able to mitigate in a place where there were existing scrub jays or they were within a mile of the area. Mr. Veenstra further commented on the picnic area. He spoke of creating new trails and picnic areas in the scrub jay habitat area. 3 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 Interim City Manager Hooper asked Parks & Recreation Director Jack Corder to recommend what he liked and talk a little bit about why. Mr. Corder presented comments regarding each concept and identified why he was recommending Concept 1 . Councilman Gornto questioned if the scrub jays left what could they do with that land. Mr. Young identified if the scrub jays weren't there, technically they couldn' t regulate. Councilman Gornto then questioned if they left and went someplace else if the other area could be developed. Mr. Young identified they had had that happen before. He spoke of the land being set aside and not being put in a conservation easement. If they required a conservation on this, that would preclude development in the future. He further explained the type of activities they were talking about wouldn' t increase the potential of them leaving and would probably enhance them staying. Councilman Roberts asked if the acreage could be reduced and what the minimum was they could get away with. Mr. Young informed him scrub jays use 25 to 30 acres per family and that he didn' t think they could get it any tighter than the six acres. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they wanted a consensus from Council . Interim City Manager Hooper thought they were looking for consensus on the three conceptual plans . Councilman Hammond asked if a swimming pool could go in the future area with no problem. Mr. Veenstra informed him a 25 meter pool could fit in that are but a 50 meter pool could not. Councilwoman Lichter questioned if wetlands were ever usable for any type of water activities . Mr. Veenstra informed her they could be used for activities like that. The problem was getting the fish habitat established and they didn' t know what kind of stormwater facilities would be there. Mr. Veenstra confirmed for Councilwoman Lichter there could be a possibility for something in the future with the wetlands. It was the consensus of Council to go with Concept 1 . Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council they would be back on November 16th to describe the master plan preliminary layout. This portion of the meeting was over at 6: 30 p.m. Interim City Manager Hooper described the next work session was to talk about the YMCA and some of the discussion there. Mr. Wayne Bostic was going to update the Council briefly on what had occurred 4 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 since 30 days ago when they authorized them to proceed to raise money and generate the ability to fund their share of the $1 million. Interim City Manager Hooper informed Council upon completion of Mr. Bostic' s discussion of where they stood, he handed Council an agenda that had seven questions . The purpose was to go through the seven items and to make sure those were the questions they wanted answered before they entered into any kind of lease or obligation. Wayne Bostic, YMCA, identified he had brought with him David Dukett as well as one of his board members to help him answer any questions the Council had. He then provided an update on their fundraising efforts. They had identified at least $100, 000 in new money, not counting the possibility of Fish Memorial' s investment with them of $50, 000 a year for a number of years . They were about 1/3 of the way. Interim City Manager Hooper commented on the first of seven questions with regard to Name of Entity and the second question regarding the Privatization Fee ($50, 000) . Councilwoman Lichter commented on why she felt the term Privatization Fee was a bit misleading and in her mind implied something to do with the private sector. She felt it needed to be made clearer to the public. Mr. Bostic suggested identifying it as purchase of services . Councilwoman Lichter wanted to know if there was any thought of a long term commitment. Interim City Manager Hooper identified it was staff negotiating with the Y and was not to exceed the five years but he felt it was a long term contract. He further commented on why he chose the term privatization. If the City built that gym they were going to have to staff it, operate it and maintain it. This was in lieu of that which was a "privatization" of hiring the Y to do the function the City would have had to do. Councilman Roberts asked if the Y didn' t request it and didn' t need it for running the operation, why couldn' t it be used in some of Jack' s other programs or outdoor facilities every year. Interim City Manager Hooper identified he thought it may or it may be used on facilities they wanted to specify inside the gym. He further explained that was a negotiation point from staff that he thought from an effort they were going to fund some of the program. It had a cap and a five-year limit. They would bring that back. When they saw the contract that would be something the Council would have some say on as to leaving it in, take it completely out or identifying specific programs they were willing to fund. Interim City Manager Hooper continued his presentation by commenting on the third question with regard to Liability/Insurance. 5 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 Councilwoman Lichter questioned the Port Orange YMCA in terms of the liability insurance where they are leasing the plant from them. Mr. Bostic informed her the YMCA paid for the liability insurance and the City of Port Orange paid for fire protection and so forth. Councilwoman Lichter asked about the pool . Mr. Bostic identified the pool was part of the liability policy. Interim City Manager Hooper further explained none of that would affect the City. The City would have ownership of the materials that were there and the property there. The liability would be paid for out of a package. Interim City Manager Hooper then commented on the fourth question with regard to the Schedule for Use of Facility. He informed Council they had developed a program that Council would see on December 21st that would come back with the Master Plan. He was also going to talk to Council at the end of the work session about a public hearing with regard to bringing back a contract on December 21St. They were looking at the end of December of 1999 to have the facility up, operating and ready to go. Interim City Manager Hooper then commented on the fifth question with regard to the Review and Control of Programs . This would be addressed and would come back to Council at the time of the contract. Councilman Roberts asked if the City had authority over the fees charged. Interim City Manager Hooper informed him if the Y wanted to raise fees it would have to come before Council. Councilwoman Lichter identified she had some concerns with single parent families not being able to afford the fee. It was stated the Y turns no child away. She asked to what degree. Mr. Bostic identified if they were doing the job they should be doing and they proved it to the Council he would think the Council would want to support that effort to see that nobody was turned away. They were going to make a little money on some of the memberships and would use that money to help fund those kids . They were also going to use United Way funds and would have a sustaining membership drive to raise funds . Interim City Manager Hooper identified part of that could be the $50, 000 contribution he talked of. Councilman Hammond asked Mr. Corder if they had anything for the kids that couldn' t afford it. Mr. Corder identified they worked with the parents and they had x-amount of kids whose parents couldn' t afford it. They may have a pay plan set up or no plan at all but the kids do play. They do not turn them away. Interim City Manager Hooper further commented on the facilities not being the same. Mr. Bostic pointed out there were State funds out there that helped pay for the kids through United Child Care. 6 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 Mayor Allman pointed out at the last meeting he had voted no, to just carry on and go with the gymnasium. Since then he had done some research and had changed his view. He felt they needed to have a workshop to educate everyone as to exactly what the Y was going to do, what it would cost and how it would benefit the citizens of Edgewater, which was the number one thing people wanted to know that he felt the Council should be getting out to the people. Councilwoman Lichter wanted to know how Aqua Park was factored in as this was a concern brought up by John Stearns who owned Aqua Park. Mr. Bostic thought they had 40, 000 to 45, 000 people in Southeast Volusia. He knew Mr. Stearns who was a personal friend over the years and he respected him. If Aqua Park was serving 1, 000 people there were still 39, 000 people they weren' t reaching. He firmly believed they could help his business even more if he had room. They would not go after the High School swim team or the physical therapy at Aqua Park. Mr. Bostic spoke of the DBCC being five blocks from the Y and DBCC built the most beautiful indoor pool but the Daytona YMCA was still running and probably doing more business because of it. They were going to work with and do everything they could to be cooperative with Mr. Stearns . Interim City Manager Hooper identified they met with Mr. Stearns to see if there was a way to make a joint use occur. The Y was not interested in infringing on the rehabilitation and working with seniors . Aqua Park was open from 12 : 30 p.m. to 3: 30 p.m. to the public. The group they would be looking to bring into the Y was a different set of competition status; they just weren' t looking for the same players . Councilwoman Lichter questioned if the pool was part of the membership or separate. Mr. Bostic informed her the whole YMCA was part of the membership. He further explained they try to sell memberships yearly. They charge a daily fee to people who are not members of the Y. Councilman Roberts felt if they had a workshop to educate the public perhaps they should prepare something to show the people if they do a joint venture with the Y with regard to how much building space they would get, what kind of square footage, how it would be laid out as opposed to if they designed their own and what they would be able to build with City funds for Mr. Corder to run a facility and how much building space they would get out of it. Mr. Bostic informed him they had a preliminary already and would be glad to share that with the people. He further commented on Fish Memorial working with them. 7 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 Councilman Roberts asked if the Hospital Board had committed 100% to this . Mr. Bostic informed him they had not had a vote but were working towards being a partner with the YMCA. Mr. Bostic explained for Councilwoman Lichter what the Wellness Center was . Councilwoman Lichter asked if they would be hiring Edgewater people to run the YMCA. Mr. Bostic identified in the summer they would be hiring 35-40 young people that would work in day camps, swimming lessons and after school programs. He hoped the whole group would come from this area. Councilwoman Lichter asked if Mr. Corder would be involved. Mr. Bostic informed her Mr. Corder would be involved as much as he wanted to be involved. Councilman Roberts asked about Ownership of Property and Facility. He had people voice their concerns about if the Y was borrowing money and the threat of the City land being put at risk because of the loans by the Y. He felt if the City did a joint venture it should not be put up as collateral and that the City should retain ownership of all property and buildings and that the Y should be using their overall national asset to backup their loans. Bob Ludlow, Volunteer Board Member with the YMCA, explained the YMCA itself was liable for the actual loan. Interim City Manager Hooper pointed out they had made that real clear at the very first meeting. They can' t take public property and have a lien placed on it. The City would retain full ownership of the property and the structures to be built. Mayor Allman asked what the soonest was that they could have a workshop. Interim City Manager Hooper suggested December 7th to describe the contract. Mayor Allman wanted to have work session to explain to the people the benefit of what the Y would be. Interim City Manager Hooper informed him that could be done earlier. The earliest they could have an agreement that would have the details was December 7th. Mayor Allman felt the question was whether it was going to Y or not to Y. He felt that needed to be addressed. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of a workshop being informational and questioned if they needed the reaction yeah or nay after that from the public. She commented on hearing from the citizens at the meeting but that wasn' t really getting the expression of the taxpayers in the City. She felt they needed to have that forum available also. She mentioned including something in the newsletter. This was a long term 8 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 commitment and important step and the taxpayers should have some input. Mayor Allman identified people were asking him what the Y would do and how it would benefit the citizens of Edgewater. He felt once that information was out there it would be evident. He wanted to have that workshop as soon as possible. Interim City Manager Hooper asked if they wanted it on a Council meeting night an hour beforehand or if they wanted a separate item by itself on another night. The Council wanted it to be a separate item by itself on another night. Councilwoman Lichter felt the citizens had a right to know what the financial deal was . Mayor Allman identified they would be explaining that to them. They weren' t going to be signing anything at all until December and wouldn' t be signing anything at all until the financial aspect of the whole thing came forward and was presented. He was trying to answer some of the basic questions as far as how it would benefit the City. If they find out it would benefit the City then on December 21st when the money was laid forth everybody would know exactly what they were looking at. If the money was right and it benefitted the City they move forward. If the money wasn' t right and it didn' t benefit the City then they go with a Recreation Center. Councilman Hammond spoke of people speaking to him that were concerned that taxes were going to be raised to pay the $50, 000 . Mr. Bostic spoke of time running short on them. They needed a consensus. He was spending quite a bit of money trying to raise money. Mayor Allman didn' t want to commit without the people knowing what was going on. He didn' t feel they had a choice because he had been asked too many times how it would benefit the citizens . Councilman Roberts asked Mr. Corder to prepare something for comparison for the workshop so the public could be educated so they would know if they went with Plan A what they would get out of it with the Y and if they go with Plan B what they can get out of their money with a Recreation Center. Mr. Bostic wished they could have had a workshop with the public to begin with. Councilman Roberts identified a lot of people had not come to the meetings and gotten involved. Now that it was close they all wanted to know what was going on. He felt it was time to clear the air. 9 Council Workshop October 19, 1998 After some discussion Council agreed to hold a workshop on October 28th at 7 : 00 p.m. Interim City Manager Hooper confirmed with Mayor Allman that staff would present pros and cons and then it would be opened up for the public. It was decided if people had questions in writing, they could drop them in a box at City Hall. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Allman adjourned the workshop 7 : 15 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer, CMC 10 Council Workshop October 19, 1998