08-17-1998 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
AUGUST 17, 1998
6:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 6: 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman Present
Councilman James Gornto Arrived at 7 : 00 p.m.
Councilman Myron Hammond Present
Councilman Gary Roberts Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the workshop was to discuss, with the Executive
Committee for the Citizens for Responsible Government, how citizens
view the performance of responsible government.
Opening Statement by Ferd Heeb
Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, Citizens for Responsible
Government, thanked Council for agreeing to the workshop. The
presentations would be limited to three speakers; himself, Dick
Martinez and John Moore. After each presentation they hoped members
of the Council would offer dialogue on the thoughts and ideas
presented by the speakers . The discussion would only be between the
speaker and members of the Council, would center on issues and there
would be no personal attacks. The only agenda was reconciliation and
responsible government. He asked the citizens in the audience not to
applaud or make verbal gestures of support or displeasure.
Mr. Heeb reminded everyone what a wonderful place they live in by
describing what Edgewater offers and identified they had a lot to be
thankful for. He felt the people who live in Edgewater were divided.
They had those who were actively concerned about the affairs of the
City and those who were so involved in making a living and raising
their families or for whatever reason were not concerned. The
actively concerned citizens were further divided into two camps . Both
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camps had adopted mean spirited platforms based on revenge and payback
to the point many outsiders consider Edgewater' s City government to be
a joke. He felt it was time to put aside the anger and hostility and
come together as a community; a community that respects individual' s
differences and the opinions of others and a community where the
majority deals with the minority compassionately and reasonably.
Mr. Heeb then read an article written by Debby Brazzell from the
Observer entitled "We Need to Understand Our Critics. "
Mr. Heeb hoped tonight would be the start of a commitment by this
Council and the citizens of this community to join hands in moving
forward for the betterment of our City and government. The Citizens
for Responsible Government were here to present their views on what
they thought the leaders of the City should be doing to provide
responsible government and to offer their help in achieving those
goals. They wanted to see Council follow procedures established by
State law and the City' s Charter in all of their dealings with and
without the City. The perception that something was accomplished
outside the process opens allegations of conspiracy and distrust. It
also created division in the City.
Mr. Heeb identified they were here to open dialogue with the Council
with the hope that together they can develop a better understanding of
what constitutes responsible government and eliminate the discord that
surrounded the Administration.
Public Perception of Block Voting
Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Avenue, identified they were here because
citizens had voiced their complaints to them and had made clear that
they felt they had a problem with the City Council as it existed
today. Block voting was one of those problems. Many residents
complained their views were ignored. He felt Council too often voted
as a block and gave the perception of pre-agreement. He felt
perception was important in a city our size.
Mr. Martinez asked Councilman Roberts how they could give residents
more of a voice on his decisions . Councilman Roberts informed him the
residents were welcome to call him. A lot of the residents that
complained he never heard from until after a decision was made.
Mr. Martinez asked if it was possible that perhaps because of events
overtaking the issue that there was a preconception of how they were
going to go. He felt they should give more latitude to the people
that come to the meetings .
Mr. Martinez asked Mayor Allman to comment on that subject also.
Mayor Allman informed him since they had been in office they had a
total of 156 different motions they voted on. Out of that 135 were
unanimous . He felt the voting bloc Mr. Martinez was speaking of was
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himself, Councilman Roberts and Councilman Hammond. He pointed out
the three of them had voted unanimously six times out of 156. He
didn' t feel this was a voting bloc. There had been five votes taken
where it was a 3-2 combination and ten votes of 4-1. He identified he
fielded telephone calls at home. He would act and do whatever was
necessary to help anyone in this town. He didn' t feel he had turned
his back on anybody in the City.
John Moore asked Mayor Allman of the 156 votes, how many motions were
initiated by one of the two Councilmen and seconded by the other.
Mayor Allman felt it was probably all six. Mr. Moore questioned if he
thought it was only six. Mayor Allman informed him he didn' t know
what Mr. Moore was getting at. Mr. Moore identified he had seen it
happen more than six times . Mayor Allman identified they had voted
together 141 times but they had been joined by the other two
Councilmembers 135 of those 141 times. He felt the perception of bloc
voting was exactly that, perception.
Mr. Martinez asked Councilman Hammond how the Council could restore
the residents' confidence since there was a perception. Councilman
Hammond stated he didn' t know there was a problem. He left his
business ten minutes ago to get there by six o' clock. Customers had
been on the phone all day to him and had been driving in and out.
Ever since he ran customers had been in and out. If there was a
problem they phone him or come to his place. Right now, he had asked
John Moore' s father to get a hold of John Moore, Jr. to talk to him
and that had been months ago. It never happened. He had not had
anybody come in to his business and say they did or didn' t want
something. He had people phone him and had gone to people' s homes on
problems. He didn' t understand this .
Mr. Martinez gathered Councilman Hammond thought there was no problem.
Councilman Hammond stated for him, he had no problem.
Councilwoman Lichter felt if they were going to ask her fellow
Councilpeople to respond that she should respond too. Mr. Moore
informed her she was coming up.
Councilwoman Lichter felt what might help perception, if there really
was a perception, that they should know what type of issues had been
voted on as a bloc. She felt that may give a key to the perception
problem. She felt sometimes it was their responsibility not just to
vote, but to explain. If they explained their vote, since they have
no other way to legally dialogue with each other, she felt it was
important to explain why they were voting yeah or nay.
Start a new Search for a City Manager
Mr. Moore applauded the Council' s efforts before of finding a new City
Manager. He felt the process was very fair and very professional,
which he credited Interim City Manager Hooper for.
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Mr. Moore informed Councilwoman Lichter that at the last Council
meeting she made the comment that perhaps it was time to start a new
search. Councilwoman Lichter identified she mentioned it because Mr.
Hooper originally said he was only going to be here until the end of
September. She knew how long it took them to go through 200
applications the first time. She felt Interim City Manager Hooper had
done a wonderful job as interim but interim was only temporary and
wasn' t planning for the future.
Mr. Moore thanked Interim City Manager Hooper for all he had done for
Edgewater. He wanted to see a City Manager who was going to be here
that was going to afford some type of continuity to that position. He
wanted to see some sort of action taken to decide whether or not a
search would be started. There had been rumors about how since this
Council had been in office they had gone through some City Managers .
It wasn' t just Edgewater that was noticing it; it was all over the
State. He felt it wasn' t hard to clean up perception.
Restoring Confidence in Our Elected Council
Mr. Heeb heard a residence refer to the Council as the City Fathers,
the connotation being they are the leaders of the City family. When
they elect their representatives, they expect them to be leaders . To
build confidence, the Council must demonstrate leadership. One of the
critical components of leadership was the ability to build consensus,
which he felt was what Council was going to have to start doing, with
the City Manager and the public. If the Council wanted the citizens
to have confidence in them, when they had an issue that had two sides
they had to stand up and say why they felt the way they did and why
they felt this was the right direction for the City and offer
compelling arguments. They can' t let everybody talk and then vote
because then the people don' t feel their comments had been taken into
consideration. He found this Council did not offer compelling
arguments before they vote. They don' t take into consideration that
there were people in the audience who don' t agree with their position
and he felt those people needed to be addressed to help with building
consensus. The Council was elected to represent all of the people.
When the citizens cast their ballot, they vote for the person they
think would do the best job. They expect a candidate to do the best
job for everybody, not just his constituents. There were a lot of
people that felt they had been disenfranchised from the process
because of who they supported. He felt Council needed to make an
effort to assure them they hadn' t been disenfranchised. They had to
do what they thought was the best for the entire City and hopefully
not bow to the influence of small special interest groups . He felt it
was especially important to listen to the critics and hear what they
had to say. Every person who addressed Council had the right to be
heard and their statements considered. To have confidence in the
Council, they needed to believe that and Council needed to restore
that confidence.
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Mr. Heeb asked Council if they had any comments.
Councilman Roberts identified he had lived in Edgewater for 15 years
and had had family in Edgewater for about 20 and felt he understood
the community pretty well . He listens to a lot of people. A lot of
people don' t show up at these meetings. They show up when they see
something in the paper that was voted on the night before and they get
upset and they show up at the next meeting but they don' t get involved
when they should. He does his homework on issues on the agenda.
Councilman Roberts pointed out he did not ignore what he hears the
audience say. He hears both sides of the story, gives equal thought
to both sides and votes the way he thinks the City should go in the
future. He does the job to better the community. He felt Council had
done a very good job of getting this City where it should be going.
If it meant personnel changes, so be it. They had some good people on
staff and he wanted to continue that path towards a better future for
the City. He further commented on the people being welcome to get in
touch with him.
Mr. Heeb expressed his appreciation of the intentions of all of the
Councilmembers that they sincerely were trying to do what was right
for the City. Unfortunately there has been created a perception that
they have an agenda and that the agenda is in place before they walk
into the Community Center. He pointed out Councilman Roberts just
admitted that he does his homework and walks into the room with his
position but he doesn' t elaborate how he got there. They let
everybody talk and then they vote. If they wanted to restore
confidence in the Council and get the City back together, they were
going to have to make an extra effort. It was time for the City to be
a community and for Council to take responsibility for their position
and bring it together as a community.
Mr. Heeb didn' t think that any of the Councilmembers were experienced
politicians or had held public office. Councilwoman Lichter informed
him she had been an active politician for over 40 years and further
commented on her experience.
Councilman Roberts identified this was his first elected position but
he had served on an advisory board. With his background in the
construction industry he had worked with many government agencies,
City, County and State and had a good feeling for how government
worked.
Mr. Heeb was talking about the political process where he would be
willing to stand up in front of the people and discuss every issue in
minute detail if necessary. He informed Councilman Roberts he needed
to be able convey his thoughts and feelings so people understood where
he was coming from.
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Mr. Heeb identified they wanted responsible government and wanted the
Council to be successful.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of trying to explain everything, not only
being a teacher but a politician. Then she gets comments from people
in the audience asking why she doesn' t stop talking and that she was
explaining too much. She felt it was a two-way street. The Council
had a responsibility. They had to talk to their constituents and do
their homework. Their constituents had a responsibility as well as
the Council to understand the City Manager/Council form of government.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of receiving calls and letters asking her
to do things she isn' t supposed to do. It' s not her responsibility to
go up and down every street and find code enforcement issues. She is
to set policy and yet she gets that type of request.
Mr. Heeb spoke of revolving in a sphere of influence with many people
coming in and out of that sphere. So often their discussions center
on the people in that sphere of influence. He cautioned the Council
to be careful of who they were talking to because there were a lot of
people outside their sphere of influence they weren' t talking to and
they had to think in terms of how those people feel when Council was
making decisions .
Councilman Hammond said what he was going to do when he got elected.
He had things . People came up and told him and that was his
perception of what the people wanted so that was what he perceived.
He didn't have time to go out and ask the people as he felt it was
their responsibility to come to him.
Mr. Heeb identified he understood the difficulty of the job.
Councilman Roberts spoke of when they had their first budget hearings
and nobody showed up. They had one person go to the podium. He was
sure once they set the final tax rate that they could get complaints
from everybody but questioned how many people came and got involved
during the budget hearings; practically no one.
Mr. Martinez mentioned hearing a lot of shouting at some of the early
meetings and thankfully they hadn' t heard a lot of it lately but early
on when people were voicing their views they heard statements such as
"sit down, you lost the election." He felt the Council needed to take
a leadership role because there was still permeating that perception
that if you lost the election you don' t have a voice. He felt the
people had been hurt by what happened early on.
City Employee Relations
Mr. Martinez pointed out many key City employees had quit or been
fired. The intent of the Council/City Manager form of government was
to have a legislative or policy body directing a non-political
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administrative staff lead by a professional Manager. The purpose of
this was to foster a competent staff and continuity of service. They
had lost many competent people and the continuity had been disrupted.
He asked Council how they proposed to get them back to the intent of
the City Charter.
Councilman Roberts stated those that had left employment with the City
he didn't feel were a great loss to the City. He felt the City was
running very smoothly under Interim City Manager Hooper. He
identified the people in charge such as Ms . Plaskett and Mr. Fischer
were doing a wonderful job. He was getting a very positive response
from the public. Karen Rickelman was doing a fantastic job. He felt
change was a part of evolution in government and these things happen.
Administrations change and personnel change. He thought Mr. Hooper
had brought the senior staff together, his new staff members and it
was working very well .
Interim City Manager Hooper mentioned the terminations/resignations.
There has been very pressure from Council. They told him they wanted
him to look into things and he spent a number of hours interviewing a
tremendous number of employees to figure out what was going. That was
the reason they had seen the terminations, firings and resignations .
He further spoke of making a more efficient, more cost effective
management structure. It didn' t come into being by being a political
deal. If anybody wanted to meet and talk individually about any
departments his door has been open and nobody has ever called to come
in and talk about any one item. As far as he knew nobody had been
into the Personnel Office about employee morale. He informed Mr.
Martinez before they decided Council was in error they needed to look
into whether employee morale was up or down.
Mr. Martinez stated the process of removal was abrupt and many believe
was arbitrary. They heard recently all of the evaluations of these
employees were of the highest so that previous people evaluating these
people said they were doing a great job and suddenly they are doing a
bad job when a new administration comes in. Interim City Manager
Hooper identified the problem was that everybody had an outstanding
evaluation. No one was being honest or managing it. All of the
department head evaluations were great. Mr. Martinez suggested they
be evaluated and get the public on board and let the public be aware
and not just fire them. The rumors of the threats were very corrosive
within a City administration. The threat that peoples' jobs were at
stake and that they better leave before they were fired. That was
very corrosive to confidence of the residents in their government.
Many of the residents felt the staff had been politicized by the
firings .
Interim City Manager Hooper identified when the folks left there had
been no repercussions . It hadn' t changed the efficiency as the
departments had done more with less people. That was money in the
citizens' pocket.
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Mr. Martinez felt some of the functions wouldn' t see the effect for a
long time to come, with regard to Engineering and Code Enforcement.
Interim City Manager Hooper informed him they would see some of that
immediately. Mr. Martinez informed him he was an engineer and he
knows how you can tear apart an engineering department and it seems to
be humming for a year or two and then it will collapse because
suddenly nobody has been watching the ship develop holes in the hull .
Interim City Manager Hooper invited Mr. Martinez to come and look at
the Department and they could debate that one on one. Mr. Martinez
informed him he may take him up on that.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of the fellows running on an obviously
different platform than she did. In her primary she had four or five
points she ran towards such as broadening the tax base, culturally and
economically improving the climate, beautification, recreation. Sweep
City Hall was not one of hers . It was a matter of an approach of how
they do things differently. Maybe she would have come to the same
conclusion as what happened on day one. That was not her primary goal
and she would have gone about it in certainly a different manner. She
felt they lost some very good people but more especially her sadness
is Kevin Grace. She felt they went through an elaborate process of
selection and she felt that was a very bad loss . That was her
personal opinion and probably one of the reasons their relationship
got off to a rocky start.
Mr. Martinez stated the perception was there was an agenda, there was
a hit list, it was payback time and a lot of people went and it was a
shock to all of the residents of Edgewater. Consensus . Nobody talked
to the community. They left them there with their jaws hanging and
they were still looking for an explanation for why some of that
happened.
Councilman Roberts informed him they did talk to the community. They
talked to thousands of people during the campaign. That was why they
were voted in. He was out there for over two months talking to people
prior to being elected getting their views and finding out what they
wanted. It appeared to him that a vast majority wanted a serious
change in City Hall . That was why they voted them in. He thought it
would make a better city.
Mr. Martinez stated when he hears so many people who contradict what
Councilman Roberts was saying and that they never heard that during
the campaign and never heard about a hit list. He didn' t. He voted
and was looking carefully at the candidates. It came as a shock when
suddenly abruptly people were fired and were leaving. He felt Council
needed to build consensus with the community. They can' t just travel
in their circles and assume what they were hearing from their
supporters was what the rest of the City wanted.
Following the City Charter
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Mr. Moore identified the way he interpreted the Charter was that the
Council worked in a legislative manner not administrative. The
Council creates criteria and they do this from public opinion,
building consensus with the constituents on the advice of the City
Attorney and the City Manager, who work at Council' s discretion. He
felt Council proved that and exercised that right when they first came
into office. They made it very clear the City Manager and City
Attorney work for them but he advised Council they also work for the
citizens . When it comes down to it and the Council makes the vote
there are five of them up there. The City Manager and City Attorney
do work for the Council but the Council works for the citizens . They
needed a City Manager that Council could get along with and a City
Attorney who would have the best interest for Edgewater and was going
to be there. He wasn' t throwing rocks but identified that was the way
he had seen it since the Council first took office. He supported the
"Clean Sweep" but felt the way it was gone about and the way things
went down the Council didn' t explain why they did it the way they did
it. When people came initially to the first few meetings, he got up
and said he didn' t like the way the meetings were being ran. He was
mad and he was confrontational and he got exactly what he deserved for
being confrontational back.
Mr. Moore stated this was a group of people that got together at the
Library as a recall group who wanted to kick the Council out. Mayor
Allman told him to do it. Mr. Moore informed him it wasn' t worth the
trouble and that it would be easier to come to Council to say what
they did tonight.
Mayor Allman agreed perception was 99% of this whole thing. This
group got together originally for recall . They had done nothing to be
recalled for. They were voted in with 1, 600 and 1, 700 votes as
opposed to 1, 000 votes . They were the people that have guided them
that they have listened to. He would help anybody do whatever he
could to make his life better in the City. He asked to be given the
opportunity.
Mr. Moore informed him that was not his point. Mayor Allman felt
maybe the perception he had coming was wrong. All he sees is his
picture on the front page of the newspaper on something that happened
a year ago. He was approached by the Associated Press today. It was
on CNN this afternoon. He would be on Channel 6 at 11 p.m. tonight.
It has become something it doesn' t need to be. It has become a joke.
Mayor Allman informed Mr. Heeb his total perception of him had changed
150% tonight. He respected him as a gentleman and respected him as a
scholar the way he conducted himself tonight. His perception going
the other way was he was one of the trouble makers . They are all
citizens of Edgewater.
Mayor Allman spoke of City Manager Hooper not living in Edgewater and
identified some of the decisions he would be making over the next six
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months they had to live with for ten years . City Managers come and
go. He felt he was the best for what they could do right now and felt
he was doing a good job.
Mayor Allman felt it was time for healing. He thanked Mr. Heeb for
coming forward tonight. He informed Mr. Martinez and Mr. Moore that
the perception they had was slightly different than what they had
right now. He felt they needed to sit down and get the perception out
in the open. Maybe that was what they were trying to do tonight but
they were listening and weren' t coming back. If the room was divided
there were more people in support of the Citizens for Responsible
Government than there was for the Council.
Mr. Moore informed him they weren' t about division and were about
bringing the City together. Mayor Allman felt they should move
forward.
Councilman Hammond spoke of learning a lot at the Florida League of
Cities conference. He commented on an article in the newspaper
yesterday. The Council is trying to build a community and get
industry in here. If someone had an industry and was thinking about
coming to Edgewater, they wouldn' t want to come to Edgewater.
Councilman Roberts felt more people should show up at meetings instead
of taking what was in the paper as gospel. He also felt the News
Journal had had an influence on the community. The influence should
be what they hear at City Hall and participating in the system and not
just believing what you read in the Press .
Mr. Heeb felt it had been a good meeting. They have had their say and
they commended Council for allowing them to have this workshop
session. He hoped it would be a start for a new more cordial
relationship between all of the citizens in Edgewater and Council,
their elected officials .
Mr. Heeb quoted the Optimist' s Creed and stated "Let us all forget the
mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the
future."
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Roberts moved
to adjourn, second by Councilwoman Lichter. The Workshop adjourned at
7 : 00 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
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