06-25-1998 - Joint Workshop w/City of New Smyrna Beach CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
JOINT WORKSHOP WITH THE CITY OF NEW SMYRNA BEACH
JUNE 25, 1998
4:30 P.M.
DBCC SOUTH CAMPUS — ROOM 109C
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Vandergrifft called the Joint Workshop to order at 4 : 49 p.m. at
the Daytona Beach Community College South Campus in Room 109C.
ROLL CALL
CITY OF NEW SMYRNA BEACH
Deputy City Clerk Rhonda Haynes read the roll call for the City of New
Smyrna Beach.
Mayor James Vandergrifft Present
Vice Mayor Joann O'Bannon Present
Commissioner William Rogers Present
Commissioner James Hathaway Present
Commissioner Oretha Bell Present
Liz Yancy and George Beazley were also present from the City of New
Smyrna Beach.
CITY OF EDGEWATER
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth read the roll call for the City of
Edgewater.
Mayor Randy Allman Present
Councilman James Gornto Excused
Councilman Myron Hammond Present
Councilman Gary Roberts Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present
Interim City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the joint workshop was to discuss matters of mutual
interest and opportunities for cooperation between the two cities .
Mayor Allman identified the meeting was brought about by Councilman
Hammond bringing forth a suggestion at one of their Council meetings
concerning the YMCA.
1
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
Councilman Hammond then suggested some talking points he wanted to
discuss regarding the YMCA.
Councilwoman Lichter didn' t know the background of the relationship
with the YMCA with the City of New Smyrna Beach. She didn' t have the
history lesson she needed to make some judgment to where they are now.
She also wanted to know how the Christian Life Center factored in.
Wayne Bostic, YMCA, identified they weren' t presently associated with
the City Commission of New Smyrna Beach. He further commented on a
joint venture three or four years ago with New Smyrna Beach that never
happened.
Mr. Bostic commented on the YMCA facility located in Port Orange and
having a great relationship with them. They recently joined up with
Halifax Hospital. They were hoping Bert Fish would be a partner down
here also.
Mr. Bostic identified they had a contract to sign with the church at
their next Board meeting.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned the money raising efforts . Mr. Bostic
informed her they had just started.
Councilwoman Lichter was wondering what indoor type facilities New
Smyrna had at this moment, which New Smyrna Beach Parks & Recreation
Director Liz Yancy identified at this time.
City Manager Frank Roberts identified the only facility plan they had
was for a Community/Senior Center at the old Brannon Memorial Library.
He further spoke of renovations that would need to be made to the
facility to make it more effective from a Community/Senior Center
standpoint.
Mayor Vandergrifft identified most all of the programs had a lot of
folks from Edgewater. He spoke of a petition that was submitted with
regard to the new Regional Library that had a good majority of people
from Edgewater. He mentioned New Smyrna having a lot of indoor
facilities.
Vice Mayor O' Bannon asked if the City of Port Orange contributed
financially to the running of the YMCA. Mr. Bostic informed her they
did not and that they paid a lease payment to the City of Port Orange.
It was being run with fees for memberships, programs such as the
United Way, contributions, and special events such as golf
tournaments .
Commissioner Rogers heard through the grapevine that Councilman
Hammond was looking to have the YMCA located at the City' s 26-acres,
which was correct. He asked if it were to be built in the City of
2
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
Edgewater as a cooperative type program, how they would assure that
Oak Hill and New Smyrna Beach would be properly involved in that
situation.
Councilman Hammond felt the lawyers would have to get involved on
participation but he assumed how much they would put in would be the
percentage they would get back.
There was then a discussion regarding this being a long term
commitment. Councilman Roberts felt they were emphasizing too much on
how much they would need. He felt what they were looking to do on 10th
Street was at least a $2 million project if not more. He felt it was
very generous of the church to offer five acres but he was concerned
that it would become landlocked as it was a very limited area. He
felt the 26 acres offered a lot more possibility in the future and
gave a regional effort a way to distribute the financial burden so a
particular community didn' t feel it all at once. He also felt it
would be more acceptable to the taxpayers in all of the areas .
City Manager Roberts asked if Edgewater was aware they were in the
planning stages of an outdoor recreation complex. He expressed
concern with getting into a duplication.
Councilman Roberts didn' t feel the duplication would be a problem with
outdoor facilities .
Councilman Hammond felt it would be convenient to have one location to
send the children for outdoor activities . He felt they should start
working together and utilizing what they have instead of everybody
trying to run around to different locations. He felt by working
together they could come out way ahead on things like that.
City Manager Roberts felt there should be coordination so they weren' t
duplication an effort but that was a different story to the YMCA
scenario. He hadn' t seen a good reason why it should be moved out of
the potential area as they were talking about the building not the
outdoor portion of the facility as it related to the size of the
property. This was a more sensible location for the two major cities .
Commissioner Hathaway felt if the Y was going to be put at the 26
acres that New Smyrna residents have already been excluded. He felt
it wasn' t readily acceptable. He also mentioned residents that were
members of the Port Orange YMCA. Mr. Bostic pointed out they had
about 100 from Edgewater and New Smyrna. Commissioner Hathaway felt
if they wanted to make things accessible that they needed to find a
more centralized location that was accessible to the two major cities
that would be involved.
Councilwoman Lichter commented when they are dealing with Port Orange
they are dealing with the YMCA and the City. She spoke of it being
more difficult when dealing with three cities and that they needed a
3
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
conductor to orchestrate not only the building and the planning but
the implementing. She admitted to coming in with predetermined ideas .
She felt it would be nice for Edgewater to finally have something of
its own and something that had been planned for a long time. She felt
the planning of what was involved outside was as important to her as
what was inside. She commented on the growth that could potentially
happen. Unless someone can convince her that this can work she would
be open. She commented on location being a factor but she felt
orchestrating would be a factor as well. She felt it was an
impractical setup with more than one city.
Mr. Bostic identified with the Health Department that would be between
the YMCA and the Hospital and would not be an issue with the cities
but would be something they would be very proud of.
Councilwoman Lichter confirmed with Commissioner Hathaway that the 26
acres was a bit out of the way location for New Smyrna residents .
Commissioner Hathaway identified he would have a hard time to spend
the City of New Smyrna Beach taxpayers' dollars if it were located
outside of the City of New Smyrna Beach. He ran during the election
and knew why this failed. He felt the YMCA would only succeed on
outside people, corporate donors or sponsors and would not succeed if
they get government entities involved in being the sole supporter or
the main drive in supporting these things . Councilwoman Lichter
wasn' t sure how the Edgewater residents would react either because
they hadn' t been presented with that alternative.
Councilman Roberts felt if it wasn' t for local government they
wouldn' t have a YMCA in Port Orange right now. He felt they needed a
starting point as the YMCA didn' t have millions of dollars just lying
around to throw up a YMCA right now. He felt geographically there
wouldn' t be a perfect location for this . He felt if they kept talking
about where it would fit between Edgewater and New Smyrna rather than
where it would fit in Southeast Volusia County as there was a lot more
residents than just in the two corporate cities to consider, Oak Hill
and the rural areas that he felt deserved facilities too. He also
felt Volusia County should step up and be a part of this .
Jim Ward, County Councilman?, felt when they start talking about
regional it is a great idea but then most people want something in
their own backyard. He further commented on how the YMCA in Port
Orange got built.
Commissioner Bell felt each of them was coming to the table saying
they wanted one building for themselves . She questioned how they were
going to plan together when they were each divided as far as where the
building would be located. She questioned who would be the first to
back off and give in.
4
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
Jim Russell, Chairman of the Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce' s
Economic Development Committee, disclosed they had been in favor of a
YMCA in this community for a number of years and had been working with
Dr. Bill Sharp. He felt the YMCA needed to be built in this
community. The sign at their proposed site says Edgewater-New Smyrna
Beach YMCA, which he refers to as the Southeast Volusia YMCA. They
wanted to be the coordinator. They have been the ones to put together
people and funds. They needed the support of the County, the City of
New Smyrna Beach, the City of Edgewater and the City of Oak Hill.
Whether they have economic support from one or more of the government
entities they would built a YMCA using private funds if they had to
solely based on contributions from the private sector without asking
for taxpayer money to support the facility. He spoke of Dr. Sharp' s
organization providing a site for the people who were trying to get
this facility built that will equally serve both of the two large
communities and the County as a whole. They needed everybody' s help
and the support of everyone in the room.
Mayor Vandergrifft pointed out Mr. Russell was the Mayor of Port
Orange when they got the YMCA. He believed it was built through a
bond issue and the YMCA was going to pay the debt service back for the
bond to Port Orange. He asked Mr. Bostic if it was possible to have a
gymnasium offsite of where the YMCA would be. Mr. Bostic felt
anything was possible but pointed out it would cost more staff wise.
A facility that has an onsite management team would be better off no
matter where it was at.
Councilwoman Lichter read Dr. Sharp' s letter in the newspaper. She
was wondering if Dr. Sharp had anything he wanted to add.
Dr. Bill Sharp, Christian Life Center, identified they weren' t locked
into a particular structure. The ballfield was not part of the YMCA
concept but was a part of their long range plan. He wanted to see
them partner together and felt they had the most strategic place.
Last week they were taking over $65, 000 worth of donated batting cages
into storage that Buddy World gave them. They didn' t have the money
today to build a ballfield but felt it could be part of the total
project where everyone could be coming to one area.
Dr. Sharp spoke of having other plans such as a storm shelter and a
Feed a Florida Family and had fed almost 20, 000 people since the storm
last November. They were asking for grants to help them with this
program. He spoke of the YMCA having a pool and gymnasium which was
all part of their master plan. He felt Edgewater was coming in after
the horse had gotten out of the barn in talking about this. They had
a site and felt why not go with it. They didn' t have to involve the
City politics and drag this around for a number of years to redo this
again. Mr. Bostic informed his congregation he had given up on this
until they offered the property, which he offered 3 years before
Bill Roe came into his office to accept this offer. From his
standpoint this was not an indefinite option and that there were time
5
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
frames involved as other people were interested in doing things on
their property also but their priority was to keep this option open
for the YMCA. They didn' t want this to drag on. They were honored
that they could be a part of this and maybe a catalyst to help this go
forward. He didn' t want to see the land continue to sit there and
wanted to see a focal point for the community. They were there to
offer their help.
Mayor Vandergrifft thanked him for stepping up to the plate. He felt
everything they did was so unique to the community, including the
radio station.
Mayor Vandergrifft spoke of already having plans to build a gymnasium
on their site and suggested if they kept the site and put a gymnasium
on their site they could offer some things back to the City of
Edgewater and do some of their programs in the gym. Mr. Bostic
informed him the YMCA stood ready to work with anybody in any way. If
they didn' t do the YMCA on the 26 acres in Edgewater, maybe something
they could work with would be to do baseball in Edgewater' s facility
and soccer in New Smyrna.
Councilman Roberts stated one way or another they were going to try
and give their citizens a recreational facility for their tax money.
They have committed to spending a certain amount of money. He spoke
of the issue not being on the table indefinitely and that eventually
they will have to make a decision. If it worked out with a joint
effort and a regional YMCA, that would be great but if it didn' t they
had money ready to go and an engineering firm ready to go to put
together something for Edgewater' s citizens . It was an option some of
them felt was open for discussion because they did have a large piece
of land that other communities don' t have. He felt 26 acres was a
large parcel and they could put quite a complex on it. They were
looking at different options of how to ease the burden on the
taxpayers of Southeast Volusia.
Councilman Hammond further commented on trying to avoid duplication as
Edgewater had $1 million and 26 acres. He felt if everyone worked
together they could have something real nice in this area and a full
facility for everybody.
Vice Mayor O' Bannon asked if they were thinking of indoor swimming
within the complex and all of the things a YMCA would have.
Councilman Hammond informed her they were going to build a gymnasium
with basketball and other multi purposes but no indoor swimming pool .
Councilman Roberts spoke of having Aqua Park, who had expanded in the
last few years, which he felt was a benefit. He then commented on
middle school and high school students from Edgewater going to New
Smyrna and everybody going to New Smyrna for the beaches . He didn' t
feel it would be odd for people from New Smyrna Beach to come to
6
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
Edgewater and be a part of our community as well if the YMCA was put
in Edgewater.
City Manager Roberts felt the YMCA should be put together by groups
other than politic entities and the location that was best for that
group. He felt the two cities should get together and develop the
outdoor recreational facility and figure out they aren' t duplicating
the effort. He felt that would be appropriate and that they should
leave the YMCA alone.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of Edgewater having plans for an outdoor
facility in the future also. She saw a need for a stage eventually.
She felt they should let the YMCA be the YMCA.
Dr. Sharp asked what parliamentary procedure they follow and
questioned if this was agreed upon they would have to vote at a
regular meeting. He asked how long it would before they could put
this on their agendas. The soonest for New Smyrna was August.
Mayor Allman identified they were talking about indoor facilities and
the YMCA would only be one indoor facility and that both cities would
need indoor facilities . He commented on being two separate entities
and felt there were other ways for the two cities to get together to
make this a very viable activity. He felt the YMCA, Edgewater and new
Smyrna were separate entities and that if they started mixing politics
it wouldn' t work.
Mayor Vandergrifft identified they had the high school in New Smyrna
with the facilities that the high school uses that they put all of
their tax dollars in that all of the Edgewater kids come up and
utilize. Over the years he has asked Edgewater to help them with some
of those facilities because it was a high school for everyone in
Southeast Volusia but New Smyrna had always funded that. They put an
awful lot of money into the high school that Edgewater didn' t have to.
Councilwoman Lichter pointed out Edgewater had been writing letters to
the City of New Smyrna asking for assistance with the fireworks for
the last five years . Mayor Vandergrifft informed her if they would
help them with the football stadium he would give Edgewater $5, 000 for
fireworks but he guaranteed her the stadium cost a whole lot more.
Councilman Roberts spoke of a lot of community recreational facilities
being incorporated into local schools, which he felt they lacked. He
felt it was unfortunate that the cities do not have control over their
own schools and have a County School Board. They are going to work
out the best thing for their citizens and their kids, one way or
another.
Jim Foster, Southeast Volusia Hospital District, identified the
Hospital District supported wellness and health fitness as it
pertained to the older population. The commitment of the Hospital
7
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
District was clinical care, acute health care, and home health care.
He commented on the extension the Hospital District had made over the
last several years . The debt service there was significant and the
kind of money Edgewater was planning to spend was simply not there
from the Hospital District' s standpoint. He was skeptical there was a
large lead gift to make this thing fly if municipal governments were
not involved. He was pretty excited that maybe collaboration between
two of their major employers in Southeast Volusia would see this thing
as a reality. He expressed concern with where the $2 . 5 million was
going to come from. The Hospital District was committed to health
fitness and wellness. There was tremendous gain to the community if
people are healthy. He further commented on the debt service needing
to be covered as it pertained to membership. He felt the Southeast
Volusia YMCA needed to start off with a very solid and very low debt
service.
Mr. Bostic informed him the Board of Directors of the Greater Daytona
Beach YMCA would not start off with a debt service more than they can
operate.
Mr. Ward spoke of Port Orange being able to work with the YMCA in
structuring their lease payments .
A gentleman heard rumors of over $250, 000 in pledges . He asked if it
would be appropriate to ask the Hospital District how much they might
be willing to put into this.
Mr. Foster felt the Hospital District would participate if there were
significant other participants . He felt it would be possible that the
Hospital District Board of Commissioners would make a commitment for a
given year that was a capital contribution. He felt they had to start
off strong by municipalities and other government units getting
together within the County in some kind of a recreation authority. If
they could establish something they could all commit to that was
convenient for all that was what he thought had to happen.
Councilman Roberts asked realistically when they would have enough
money to start construction. Mr. Bostic informed him they had
promises, pledges and money in the bank. He understood the amount
combined was approximately $140, 000 to $150, 000. They couldn' t build
the YMCA if it wasn' t going to work economically but they believed
with the support of the business community such as Coronado Paint and
Boston Whaler it could happen.
Councilman Roberts spoke of Edgewater putting an offer on the table
because the main concern was money. Mr. Bostic informed him they
needed the financial assistance, cooperation and support of New
Smyrna, Edgewater, Volusia County and Oak Hill .
Dr. Sharp questioned if this had already fallen by the wayside in New
Smyrna and Edgewater and the property being offered because it had
8
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
failed before. Councilman Roberts spoke of having a lot more land
which would give it a lot more opportunity for expansion in the
future. It could become a much bigger and more regional facility on
26 acres rather than five acres no matter where it was located in
Southeast Volusia.
Margaret Roberts wanted them to go away from the meeting today with
one thing in their mind that they would continue this dialogue. They
had not reached resolution based on the nature of the comments but
that didn' t mean they stop here today. She suggested they continue to
communicate. He asked the Council and Commission to ask that a
representative who had the ability to pull all of the cities resources
together to make a good overall decision and work with other
representatives to come up with some ideas of how this puzzle might
come together. She questioned if they were in a position to compete
and if they had the financial resources to be competitive right now.
She felt the gymnasium question was a tough one but felt it was worth
looking at further and that the question on outdoor recreational
facilities was a lot easier. She felt they had to pool their
resources. She suggested they get a focal point and run with it and
see what happens .
Steve Dennis, Southeast Volusia Chamber of Commerce, felt there was
essential information that was missing before they could make some
more progress. He questioned if there had ever been a real
feasibility study done to determine if all of the Southeast Volusia
communities could support a facility. He suggested they look at all
of Southeast Volusia as an overlay and compare overall what Southeast
Volusia provided in indoor and outdoor facilities to determine where
the cities could and couldn' t work together. He spoke of the
population explosion in Florida Shores. He felt they needed to
determine whether or not they had a population base that could afford
it. He felt the Christian Life Center needed a decision because their
offer was not going to be open forever. He also identified there was
legislation out there to try and consolidate hospital districts .
Mayor Vandergrifft identified they came with a few other ideas to put
together to work with Edgewater. He felt there were a lot of areas of
opportunity they have between the cities of Edgewater and New Smyrna
to work together.
Mr. Ward spoke to Joe Sullivan, Director of the Boys & Girls Club of
Volusia County and identified there was nothing on this end of the
County like that that he was aware of in Southeast Volusia County.
Mr. Sullivan informed him he never wanted to compete with people like
the YMCA because dollars are so scarce. He wasn' t seeing a whole lot
down here for the youth and felt the Boys & Girls Club might be
something this community might be interested in looking at.
George Beazley asked if the City of Edgewater should it be chosen as
the location for the new YMCA was ready to donate the land or if it
9
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998
would be a lease that had to be paid back. Councilman Roberts believed
it would be a lease as well but that no commitments had been made. He
believed Port Orange had a lease set up. Mr. Bostic informed him they
had a lease on the building but identified that Port Orange provided
the land.
Councilwoman Lichter felt the YMCA was more than a recreation complex
and had certain principles and purposes. She spoke of different goals
that a YMCA may have than a city recreational complex may have. She
understood why a City would want control and wasn' t sure how many
cities were working in sync with the YMCA.
Councilman Roberts spoke about the growth in the population of
Edgewater because of Florida Shores, which still had the potential for
2, 000 more homes in that one subdivision.
A gentleman identified the population in Port Orange was 41, 000. New
Smyrna and Edgewater added together would come up with the population
of Port Orange to support a YMCA. Councilman Roberts pointed out it
wasn' t just their two cities and also included Oak Hill and Volusia
County.
There was then a brief discussion regarding naming some individuals to
the Board. Ms . Roberts informed him the Council and Commission could
do that at their next meeting.
Ms. Roberts then asked Jim Ward what Port Orange was projecting for
the payoff on the debt for the YMCA. Mr. Ward identified how it had
been changed.
Mayor Vandergrifft felt if they had another joint meeting they needed
to bring back some other areas they needed to work together on.
Councilwoman Lichter felt the study group they were working on with
all of the cities was bringing up some of the issues they have in
common in the Southeast Volusia area.
Ms . Roberts asked if the Chamber could have the opportunity to have a
representative attend each of the City' s meetings and offered to
assist in any way they could.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, the joint workshop
adjourned at 6:23 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
Deputy City Clerk
City of Edgewater
10
Council Joint Workshop w/City of NSB
June 25, 1998