03-30-1998 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
MARCH 30, 1998
6:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 6: 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman Present
Councilman James Gornto Arrived Late
Councilman Myron Hammond Present
Councilman Gary Roberts Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present
City Manager Kevin Grace Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the Workshop was for the City Council to continue
discussions regarding their goals and objectives for 1998-1999.
City Manager Grace identified this was a follow up on their previous
goal setting session. He identified the issues they talked about
previously and items they needed to get out on the table and talk
about. He referred to his memorandum from March 23, 1998 .
City Manager Grace identified the first remaining issue that needed to
be discussed was the Code Update.
Mayor Allman stated that he would be in favor of creating two ad hoc
committees .
Councilwoman Lichter asked to be informed what parts of the code
needed to be looked at. City Manager Grace informed her the entire
Code needed to be thoroughly reviewed and that the process would take
some time.
Councilwoman Lichter felt there had to be a variety that looked at all
the aspects with some kind of expertise. She felt they would also
need a professional as this was a legal thing as well. City Manager
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Grace identified they would need to staff it as the committee would
need some guidance and staff direction.
Councilwoman Lichter felt the Code of Ordinances was hard to divide
into two separate parts unless there were two aspects to it. She felt
there may be many more than two. City Manager Grace felt they were
simplifying it. He thought there was a different land development
code section but he wasn' t sure if everything that was land
development related was included in this section.
Planning Director Lynne Plaskett commented on the Code of Ordinances
book. They had the regular codes, the zoning codes and the land
development regulations.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if it was true that the zoning codes and
land development regulations had to conform to something bigger than
Edgewater. She then mentioned the zoning codes and the land
development regulations having to be looked at for inconsistencies .
She felt the regular codes might have the emphasis of citizens a
little more but the zoning and land development regulations were a job
for the professionals .
Mayor Allman felt they could probably call a Special Meeting to go
over the Code to figure out exactly what they wanted to do with it.
Councilwoman Lichter thought it was complicated if people weren' t
familiar with it to understand what the Council was talking about and
certain things were set in stone at this moment, being part of a
larger group and certain things had to be cleaned up or given an
interpretation. She agreed with Mayor Allman' s suggestion of having a
special workshop.
City Manager Grace wanted to get some direction from Council if they
wanted to proceed with breaking down the Code and going with ad hoc
committees or using existing committees and then staff could bring
back a more specific suggestion to Council.
Councilman Roberts suggested they put a five member committee together
with Ms . Plaskett to look at site plan review and commercial and
residential permitting. He spoke of separating that from things that
deal with basic Code Enforcement and put another committee on that and
break it down into categories . He also suggested the Planning &
Zoning Board could look at long term planning.
Mayor Allman felt they were going to be deleting some of the obsolete
codes and reinforcing some of the weaker ones . He felt if they had a
special meeting called for that purpose they could decide the
specifics. He wasn' t ready to direct if a committee should do it or
if staff should do it. He felt a workshop dedicated to the Code
itself would be in order.
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City Clerk Wadsworth informed Council the Municipal Code people that
were doing the codification of the Code offer a service of going
through the codes to see which ones were antiquated and she offered to
bring some information back at that particular workshop. City Manager
Grace asked if they would provide a cost estimate to do that. City
Clerk Wadsworth informed him they would.
City Manager Grace wanted to bring up a Code Enforcement issue. They
talked at length about how they felt they should approach it; with a
middle ground and not too far on any extreme. He wanted direction
from Council on Code Enforcement as it related to Guava and Hibiscus .
The past Council directed no Code Enforcement out there for a period
of time. He wanted direction as to whether Council expected them to
go ahead and proceed and enforce codes out there tomorrow, the same
way they are everywhere else in the City.
Councilwoman Lichter identified there were certain different
situations with Hibiscus and Guava; mitigating circumstances was the
reason the last Council put a halt because they were trying to get
them rezoned. She spoke of there being some very poor restrictions
over the years in terms of letting industry in, and it wasn' t zoned
industrial but they could only have two cars, which became a handicap
for some of the small businesses. While that matter was being
resolved, while it was being sent to the State to find out if it could
become a light industry area, the small businessmen came in and there
was a halt put on that type of zoning.
Councilwoman Lichter identified that safety, appearance and health
were things they couldn' t let go. She also mentioned how many cars a
small businessman could have and how many employees was an important
issue. She felt they should check with the Small Businessmen' s
Association to find out what the issue was with that so they could
have some continuity in their thinking and not come down like
gangbusters .
Councilman Roberts felt if there were other violations that had
nothing to do with the zoning that they were enforcing in other parts
of the City that they needed to be enforced there as well . He felt if
it came down to safety and health that it didn' t matter what the
zoning was and that those matters needed to be taken care of.
Councilman Hammond thought they had been enforcing it because Frank
Hall was cited about weeds and debris right around the church.
Councilman Gornto asked if he was under false impression that there
was no enforcement of a code unless there was a complaint. Ms .
Plaskett informed him that was the way the old Council wanted it.
City Manager Grace commented on the perception of selective
enforcement, which he felt if they had with complaint only
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enforcement. His recommendation was to respond to complaints and do
patrol as well, which he informed Council they had been doing.
Councilman Gornto informed Council he spent a couple of hours today
riding around Edgewater. He had trouble when the railroad doesn' t
keep their rights-of-way mowed all the time. The City has piles of
yard trash on Mango that must be 30 feet high because he assumed they
couldn' t burn it. He had a problem with picking a business where a
man is busting his butt to make a living and they will cite him for
the weeds in his lot but the whole retention area, south of Public
Works, wasn' t being maintained. The weeds that grew in the fence were
not maintained. The trees on SR 442 were not trimmed. He wasn' t sure
the City set as good an example as it should with its own properties .
He also mentioned the condition of the lawn at the Fire Station on U.
S. #1 . He further commented on the vision he had of what he would
like the City to look like ten or fifteen years from now. He then
commented on the appearance of Florida Power & Light' s substation. He
felt FPL was not being a good citizen. He also commented on FPL
running the concrete poles down SR 442 . He felt FPL in making that
decision was doing nothing more than strip mining in our community.
They didn' t care what they left behind and didn' t care what it looked
like. He felt FPL needed to be cited. He was pledging that the next
year and a half he would take Florida Power & Light on. It took them
a month and a half to put the poles up and he wants to see them down.
He was told there was no negotiating point with FPL. If Duke Power can
drop their rates in New Smyrna Beach by 20% or 30% maybe they should
negotiate with Duke Power to supply power to our FIND industrial
project or maybe they should negotiate with Duke Power and New Smyrna
Beach to supply power to Edgewater. He felt for small businesses to
be cited for weeds when they have a tremendous weed problem was very
minor.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Ms. Plaskett if she had handy the knowledge
about how many employees were allowed on Hibiscus and Guava since they
were not an industrial business. Ms. Plaskett informed her light
manufacturing was limited to three employees and further commented on
why the employee limit was put in place.
Councilwoman Lichter felt there were safety factors behind some of the
properties that were touching residential areas . She also felt that
cars parked on the street were also a safety problem. She spoke of
there being some nice places as well as some that are breaking every
code they have. She felt they had to find out where they could bend a
little until the matter was resolved and go ahead with the safety.
City Manager Grace asked her what she thought about what Councilman
Roberts' said, which was the issues that were related to the pending
zoning change, maybe not enforce those, but anything not related to a
pending change like that, that they go ahead and enforce.
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Councilman Roberts felt they couldn' t allow businesses or residences
to throw garbage on their property. He also spoke of the appearance
of the industrial complex on West Marion Avenue. He spoke of those
areas needing to be cleaned up because they were trying to entice
business and people to invest in their commercial and industrial
areas . People are going to look at that and go elsewhere. He felt
Code Enforcement was there to protect the investment of the people
that have put their hard earned money into this community.
Councilwoman Lichter felt the business community would want to clean
up its act as it behooves them and helps them. She again mentioned
bringing the business organization in to the situation, which she felt
would be helpful .
Councilman Hammond identified he had an auto repair business on
Hibiscus and they informed him he could not raise the hood of a
vehicle outside the building. He got mad and put up a fence in front
of his place. He had a fence inside of a fence and another fence
inside of that fence. City Manager Grace thought it was to keep the
auto repair inside instead of outside.
Councilman Roberts felt that came down to putting common sense into
the codes the way they are written and interpreted.
City Manager Grace mentioned one of the things they talked about last
time was common sense and trying to apply that to their interpretation
of the Codes and they would try to do that. He felt he had direction.
Councilman Roberts agreed with finding a way to get rid of the poles
on S.R. 442 .
Councilman Hammond felt instead of creating new committees they should
use the boards they already had. Mayor Allman informed him that was
what they were going to have a special meeting for.
City Manager Grace referred to the second remaining issue in his March
23, 1998 memorandum which was Fiscal/Budget issues with regard to the
Millage Rate, Personnel, and Public Works .
Mayor Allman asked if they had a list of the streets that needed to be
paved. City Manager Grace informed him they had a list of all of the
paved roadways . They didn' t have a good handle on all of the unpaved
roadways.
Councilwoman Lichter thanked City Manager Grace for meeting with the
residents of Pelican Place and following through. They were willing
to pay for their 1/3 of the road.
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Mayor Allman expressed concern with being told they would receive a
list of the roads that needed to be paved back in November and they
still had not received that list.
City Manager Grace informed Council they had $40, 000 in the current
budget year to resurface and they were preparing a recommendation on
the roads that needed to be paved and which ones they thought needed
to be paved with the $40, 000.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned when she asked a couple of times about
that list they didn' t have a means to check it out. City Manager
Grace identified there was machinery they could contract with someone
to do that would tell them specifically the shape the roads were in
which helps staff to rate them.
Councilwoman Lichter identified that on some of the homes on unpaved
roads had sewer and some didn't.
City Manager Grace further commented on Public Works regarding the
amount that should be budgeted and what they were actually budgeting
for resurfacing.
Councilman Hammond spoke about putting a moratorium on repaving any
paved streets and prioritizing the unpaved streets. Once all of the
unpaved streets were done, they were going to look at the ones that
needed repaving.
City Manager Grace then informed Council if they were going to
continue the policy of assessing property owners for 2/3 of the cost
to paved unpaved roads with the City paying 1/3 of the cost that the
funds for the City' s portion would need to be allocated.
City Manager Grace recommended Council consider the roads that were
already paved as there was an investment already in the ground. If
they didn' t repave the streets that were already paved they would lose
them and have to rebuild them at some point. He recommended they
prioritize the maintenance of what they already have. He wanted to
get Council thinking about these issues because they were going to be
struggling with them as they went through the budget process .
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there were any grants for new roads as
there had been several different ways it had been done. City Manager
Grace felt it was very rare to get grants for major capital
infrastructure like that.
Councilman Roberts felt if the cost would be split for some of the new
roads the 1/3 method was probably the best and fairest way considering
half the City had been paved that way.
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke of Florida Shores being done in various
ways. She knew there was resentment in places like Edgewater Landing
where the total roads were included in the price of the home.
City Manager Grace spoke of all of the retention ponds added in
Florida Shores and not having added staff to maintain those.
Mayor Allman asked whose idea the ponds were. Mr. Fegley explained
when you have impervious surface you have to put in retention. City
Manager Grace pointed out the decision as to how to design them and
where to put them was the engineer who designed it. Mr. Fegley
thought there were three or four different options initially.
Councilman Gornto asked if they used in any way the trustee work
program from the State prisons . City Manager Grace wasn' t sure if
they had in the past. Usually those are used on major highways . He
felt they may have some citizens who would be concerned about bringing
those teams into the neighborhood.
Mr. Fegley commented on getting two new mowers to cut the swales .
Councilwoman Lichter asked if it was customary for Parks & Recreation
to take on all maintenance of all lands and grass all over or just
generally be in charge of recreational activities. City Manager Grade
identified it varied depending on where you were at. The larger the
City or County, they have their own facilities department that does
those things, which he felt was something they would be looking at.
Councilman Roberts felt the personnel that were maintaining the dirt
roads should be the people mowing the grass and maintaining the
shoulder of the road.
Mr. Corder informed Council that Public Works did the retention areas
and they only did U.S. #1 and SR 442 .
City Manager Grace identified the issue was they added a tremendous
amount of work and no new crews . They were going to do everything
they could to find some solutions without adding people.
City Manager Grace was trying to lay out some of the challenges he saw
going into the budget process, the challenge to keeping the millage
rate stable.
Councilman Gornto questioned a private contractor not being a viable
option. City Manager Grace informed him that it may very well be the
option but that costs money too.
Police Chief Schumaker identified that most of the retention ponds
abutted private property. It wasn' t being taken care of now is
because the homeowner' s feel it is the City' s responsibility. He
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thought if the City would deed that property to the homeowners and
allow them to beautify it as they saw fit they could give a tax break
to people that would accept it and the City wouldn' t have to maintain
it or worry about it. If only 50% of the community accepted the
retention ponds in their yards or adjoining property it would still be
a tremendous financial relief to the City. He didn' t know if it was
feasible or possible but he had brought this up to prior
administration on a number of occasions who didn' t do anything with it
but he felt it was a possibility.
City Manager Grace felt it may take some innovation like that to
overcome some of the problem.
Councilwoman Lichter felt if it was a viable option they could ask
that question in the newsletter. City Manager Grace identified there
may be some willing to do it but that it was a liability for these
people to take it on and he wasn' t sure very many people would want to
take on that liability.
Councilman Hammond spoke about people in Florida Shores maintaining
the swales in front of their homes . He commented on giving people a
reduction on stormwater if they maintain their swales .
City Manager Grace agreed to try and come up with some alternatives to
address that.
City Manager Grace again referred to the second remaining issue in his
March 23, 1998 memorandum which was Fiscal/Budget issues with regard
to the Reserve Funds .
City Manager Grace then listed the suggestions he provided as they
approached the budget process.
Councilman Gornto asked City Manager Grace to comment on the debt
level of the City. City Manager Grace informed him the last number he
saw was about $57 million. He hadn' t had a chance yet but wanted to
take that on a per capita basis and compare that to some other cities .
He spoke of the debt being issued because of things that were needed.
He felt it was a result of the City developing the way it developed
without a lot of infrastructure. He felt this was a good explanation
for why the millage rate was as high as it was and why their utility
rates and stormwater rates were as high as they were. They had looked
at some alternatives such as refinancing but with the rates where they
were today there was very little savings available in the market.
They were going to have some other financial experts look at it.
Councilman Gornto questioned being maxed out with regard to additional
debt to do paving or whatever they wanted to do. City Manager Grace
suspected they were pretty close.
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Councilman Hammond agreed with the roads as that had to be done. He
felt they overspent on the Water Plant and that it should have been
done in phases instead of building a 5. 0 MGD plant when they were only
doing 1.4 MGD. City Manager Grace felt ultimately in the long run
they would get their return on that but in the meantime the citizens
were having to pay the carrying cost on that capacity. He felt they
needed to look at what other customers they had to find to provide
water to.
Councilman Roberts felt no matter how they worked out the budget, he
couldn' t see them raising the millage rate as that wasn' t acceptable
to him or the taxpayers . He felt it needed to be stabilized and then
as they grow and bring more business in he would look for ways to
lower it.
City Manager Grace asked the Council if there were other issues they
wanted to revisit in the future. He knew they wanted to talk about
privatization in a little more detail.
Councilwoman Lichter wasn' t clear on how they left the lawyer
situation. They all agreed on a firm and she wasn' t sure if she was
supposed to start negotiations in terms of price. She thought they
were going to get to a point where they had to "grow up" "cut the
strings" and make a decision with the five Council involved in terms
of an attorney. She expressed her appreciation to City Attorney
Clayton for what she had done but she felt they got off to a rather
rocky start. She wasn' t part of that selection process and wanted to
be. She understood the reasoning in terms of keeping City Attorney
Clayton on board until the suits were finished but suits can go on for
a period of two to four years . She wasn' t sure if it was clear how
they were going to leave this .
Councilman Gornto thought they all had a voice in hiring Ms . Clayton.
The fact that it was a 3-2 vote, she still had a vote. He felt they
didn' t have to have a unanimous decision to hire an attorney.
Councilwoman Lichter felt when they picked someone like a lawyer, they
had to have a choice. They have to have three to five people that
come in that they can interview just like they did with the City
Manager. She didn' t want to scrape up scabs but she felt personally
she didn' t have a choice. A surprise item came up that night and a
rocky start. They have a City Manager they all agreed on and felt
they should be in the same boat with the City Attorney. She pointed
out they had all voted on a firm and they had left that decision
hanging out there about what to do with them.
Mayor Allman stated if they go for a firm they have prioritized them
one and two. After seeing Donna under fire the other night he wasn' t
so sure he wanted to hire that firm. They also were going to decide
if they were going to go with an individual attorney and that was one
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of the other things of that meeting. He asked City Attorney Clayton if
she was willing to take the City Attorney' s job if it was offered to
her. City Attorney Clayton informed him yes . Mayor Allman felt they
did get started on a rocky start but the fact remained he felt Ms
Clayton had done an excellent job for the City. He also felt Mr.
Hooper did an excellent job for the City. He shocked everybody
October 6th. He felt it was the best thing that happened and that the
City had been moving forward under the guidance of Mr. Hooper and Ms .
Clayton. He personally wanted to see Ms . Clayton stay on as a
permanent City Attorney.
Councilman Roberts agreed and felt she had been a great asset to them.
He wanted to see her stick around.
Councilwoman Lichter felt whoever the City Attorney was needed to be
inside City Hall more. She felt there would be certain requirements
that she felt were necessary such as being available in City Hall .
She felt the City Attorney had to know that the attendance at three to
four crucial boards was important. She felt the process should go out
in a manner similar to their hiring of City Manager Grace.
Mayor Allman spoke of doing that with the firm. He asked a simple
question the other night of Donna and she could not give him that
answer, which killed his faith in that attorney. He felt the
selection process could be done any number of ways but he didn' t see
any sense in going through a selection process if they have a majority
vote that would like to keep Ms. Clayton on.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on why she felt they needed a backup if
there was only one person. From the beginning she has wanted an in-
house attorney because of the availability and the economics of it.
Councilman Gornto asked if she was suggesting they could get an
attorney for $50 an hour. Councilwoman Lichter identified in the end
that was about what it came out to if somebody sits in the office all
day long.
City Manager Grace further explained during the discussion regarding
in-house verses outside legal counsel, he used an example if they
could hire someone with a package like his that it would be about $46
per hour. Assuming they could hire an attorney for the same package
they were looking at around $50 per hour.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of previous City Attorney Storey getting
about that and she was full-time. There was complaint back then about
going out for specialized cases to other firms . She spoke of there
not being any one attorney that could handle it all or didn' t have
some type of conflict. She felt an in-house attorney didn' t
necessarily have to be full time. She felt this was a terrible thing
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to be discussing in front of City Attorney Clayton and informed City
Attorney Clayton it wasn' t personal.
Mayor Allman stated they did have an in-house Attorney that wasn' t
full time. Councilwoman Lichter felt an in-house Attorney didn' t
necessarily mean getting paid by the hour and was here much more. An
in-house Attorney would be on a definite salary and not fluctuate by
the hour. Mayor Allman didn' t see a need to have an attorney there
all the time. He didn' t believe the City was big enough to go with a
full-time, in-house Attorney. Councilwoman Lichter felt it behooved
them to find out what other communities their size were doing. She
wasn' t sure Mayor Allman said was correct but she couldn' t prove it as
she felt most had in-house attorneys but not all full time.
Councilwoman Lichter identified she had a slight dissatisfaction and
she felt it could be improved.
Councilman Roberts didn' t really care what other communities were dong
as far as their legal department. He was very pleased with the
counsel they had on board and wanted her to say.
Councilman Gornto suggested it be put on the agenda for the next
meeting since they weren' t able to take action at the workshop.
Councilman Gornto felt they were eventually going to do some
beautification in some areas on U.S. #1 to the entrances to the City.
He hoped they were going to run reclaimed water to the medians . City
Manager Grace informed him they were looking at that and that there
may be some alternatives that were less costly. In some cases it was
so far away it would be prohibitively expensive to run lines that far.
Councilman Gornto asked if their plans when they first set up the
reclaimed water were not to extend it throughout the City. Utilities
Director Terry Wadsworth informed him it was not.
Councilman Gornto then questioned not having the water to do that.
Mr. Wadsworth informed him they have times during the summer when they
run out and don' t have enough water to go around. He further informed
him to the south there was a much better chance that they could have
the water for the medians down there. He identified the different
issues with getting it to the north such as the cost, the type of
construction that would have to be done and the distance.
Councilman Roberts felt for the limited amount of irrigation that
would happen on the islands at the north end of the City they should
use potable water. City Manager Grace informed him that was what they
were looking at.
Councilman Gornto was hoping if they ran it to the medians they could
run it across and maybe the citizens that are in the locations where
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they have a lot of salt water invasion of the wells along Riverside
Drive would have access to it but he understood it wasn' t economically
feasible.
Councilman Gornto felt they should be talking about sidewalks but knew
it was an additional expense. If they didn' t have money for roads
they surely didn' t have it for sidewalks . He felt they should be able
to get around the City on foot and on bicycles and on skates. On U. S .
#1 they could go all the way down to Dustin' s on sidewalks on one side
of the road. From there to Indian River Blvd. There were no
sidewalks . They were going to have sidewalks on SR 442 but wanted to
see somewhere in the plan some small amount of money to extend the
sidewalks that were planned for SR 442 all the way down to Riverside
Drive.
Councilman Gornto further spoke of improving the intersection of U. S.
#1 and SR 442 as he felt this area as well as Riverside Drive was a
major focal point of this community.
Councilwoman Lichter was wondering if maybe a source of raising a
little money might be the extra land that was purchased for the first
fire house, where the original site was planned.
Mayor Allman asked what they were going to do with that. City Manager
Grace informed him they would have to purchase the land from the
Association. They might need to sell that off to offset the money it
would take to buy that. There were plenty of things to use the money
on.
Councilwoman Lichter was wondering about a light or a cross walk to
get people across S.R. 442 if there wasn' t going to be a median. City
Manager Grace identified that was something they could look at. They
hadn' t come out with the 60% design plans yet.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Allman entertained a
motion. Councilman Gornto moved to adjourn. The Workshop adjourned
at 7 :23 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
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