02-23-1998 - Workshop CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
FEBRUARY 23, 1998
5:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 5: 00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman Present
Councilman James Gornto Present
Councilman Myron Hammond Arrived Late
Councilman Gary Roberts Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Attorney Nikki Clayton Present
City Manager Kevin Grace Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the Workshop was for the City Council to discuss
priorities for their goals and objectives for 1998-1999.
Mayor Allman went through the list he had of what he felt needed to be
done. He felt the priorities that needed immediate attention were a
multi-purpose gymnasium, a fire station, the FIND project, customer
service, updating the land development codes, assigning Councilmembers
to act as liaison officers for each department for the purpose of
helping with the budget process, a centralized purchasing division,
become more cost effective, review privatization, and update and
review outstanding contracts .
Councilwoman Lichter also mentioned beautification as it related to
losing the medians on SR 442 as a result of the widening. She further
commented on potential beautification programs she presented to City
Manager Grace.
City Manager Grace spoke of meeting with FDOT to get them to include
as part of the widening project itself, mitigation for the landscaping
to replace the existing landscaping.
There was further discussion with regard to grants and matching grants
for beautification projects.
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Councilwoman Lichter then commented on why she felt enclaves that were
County property that were located within the City limits were a
nuisance and identified that was something that needed to be
addressed. She agreed with looking at the rules and regulations for
code enforcement. She also spoke of lowering the speed limit on U.S.
#1 and informed Council that she had been asked about putting a bench
in front of Winn Dixie. She then commented on the extra truck that
picks up the large yard debris and was wondering if maybe they could
get another truck that does the large limbs and not just leaves.
Councilwoman Lichter then mentioned that something needed to be
resolved with regard to Guava and Hibiscus . She also commented on
vandalism and suggested the youth officer from the Police Department
could speak to the Middle School kids . She was also wondering what
was happening with the Library parking lot. Today somebody asked her
what was going on with the Catholic Church.
Councilwoman Lichter also commented on the need for a light at the
post office because of the time it takes to make a left-hand turn off
of U.S . #1 when you are going north.
City Manager Grace then commented on the list of goals and priorities
that were provided by the Department Heads and further commented on
developing an economic development action plan with the Economic
Development Board as had been done in Seminole County in order to get
all of the economic development items into one package so they knew
what they needed to do and who needed to do it.
Councilman Roberts felt beautification, code enforcement and a
recreation center were included in economic development and identified
if they were organized properly would make it appealing for people to
invest in the community. He explained why he felt they had to be
looked at as a group rather than as individual items . He further
spoke of bringing people into the community to invest money, create
jobs and broaden the tax base and the need to make the community very
appealing so people do not want to go to other communities .
Councilman Roberts felt they needed to get every dollar they could out
of Uncle Sam. He suggested finding someone at City Hall that could
concentrate on writing grants. Councilwoman Lichter pointed out the
Federal government more and more have been giving grants to the States
who in turn give them to the communities .
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of keeping their neighborhoods nice. She
spoke of having pockets in the City where streets are lovely and
houses are nice. She drove around Florida Shores today but she could
point out where renters lived as there were properties with cars all
over the front yard and garbage cans in the front. She mentioned
receiving calls this week from little old ladies that were afraid to
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make complaints in writing because there would be repercussions . She
spoke of the things she saw being borderline and identified it didn' t
quite break anything they had written at the moment but it looked so
terrible that houses couldn' t sell in the neighborhood.
City Manager Grace felt Council needed to give staff direction of how
they would like to see Code Enforcement approached as he felt part of
the problem in the past was the previous Council was inconsistent in
how it wanted to see Code Enforcement approached. They have been all
over the spectrum. He felt the middle ground approach was usually the
best, which they needed to find with Code Enforcement that was
reasonable that reasonably enforced the codes . He also felt they had
an obligation to people that invest in the community to maintain a
base level of Code Enforcement to protect their investment. He felt
staff needed to know what Council expected and wanted Code Enforcement
to do.
Mayor Allman spoke of Code Enforcement being very selective in the
past. He felt codes were laws and that there should be no gray areas .
He also felt the Code Enforcement Officer at this point in time had no
respect for authority and felt that it was her department. He further
commented on an issue he witnessed at the last Code Enforcement
Meeting. He felt they needed to clean their own house and get things
back in order. City Manager Grace felt the direction given in the
past for it to be a complaint based Code Enforcement was the reason
for it being very selective.
Mayor Allman felt the Code Enforcement Officer should be riding around
town finding violations instead of sitting by a phone waiting for a
complaint. The complaints needed to be adhered to but they needed to
be out beating the bushes too. City Manager Grace agreed they should
be doing both.
Councilman Roberts pointed out at one point a few years ago they were
citing everything that was out of line that it was absurd. It got to
the point where it went from one extreme to the other end of the
spectrum. He felt if a Code Enforcement Officer saw an obvious,
blatant violation of the codes that something needed to be done
whether it had been called in or not. The codes were there for the
health and safety of the community and to protect the investments of
the people putting their hard earned money into the community to
protect their property. He felt if they were going to start requiring
people to clean up their messes around town then the City needed to
set an example and start beautifying the City with their own programs .
He felt if they started beautifying the City that maybe the people
being cited wouldn' t think they were being picked on so much.
Mayor Allman felt the people being cited had been being picked on.
Councilman Roberts felt some of them were obviously violations and
some of them were getting away with too much. He spoke of having
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codes that were too strict or unreasonable and felt they should create
codes that were more sensible. He felt this would set the stage for
cleaning up the City and entice people to want to live here. They
have to clean up their own house if they expect everybody else to
clean up their house.
Councilwoman Lichter further commented on the direction of the Council
changing over the years. She spoke of a property on Unity Tree Drive
that had not been called in that issues that were ultimately resolved
by the landlord. If they felt the codes were too strict, they needed
to be looked at. She felt they needed to decide how the Code
Enforcement Officer was going to enforce the Codes, by complaint basis
only or if were they going to be able to act on something they saw.
She felt some codes may be too strict and some may not be strict
enough and that maybe there was something they could do that was
reasonable. She expressed concern with an elderly lady providing her
name who had a fear of retaliation. She spoke of beautifying the city
and the appearance of some of the streets . City Manager Grace felt
this worked had in hand with their other beautification efforts and
identified he didn' t think they could one and not the other.
Councilman Roberts expressed concern with appearing like a bunch of
bullies jumping on local residences and businesses and suggested the
first time a simple courtesy be given and if they didn' t comply and
had to go back a second time them a warning be given but three strikes
and you are out, which he felt was being reasonable.
Mayor Allman felt they should hire a Code Enforcement Officer who was
able to look at a situation and deem what was necessary and be
customer friendly. He further described every case would need to be
looked at on an individual basis.
Mayor Allman commented on being impressed by the Code Enforcement
Board as they were very professional. He felt they needed to put some
teeth into their code enforcement in such a way that it was enforced
properly.
City Manager Grace believed firmly in customer service and identified
he thought they needed to apply three principles; customer service,
consistency and common sense. If they could insert those things into
the process he thought they would be where they wanted to be. He
commented on there being an education process involved with the
citizens. He spoke of the goal being to get properties into
compliance by working with people.
Councilwoman Lichter felt they should look at renter and landlord
relationships and see how long they should notify renters' verses
notifying the landlord of the infraction immediately as she felt they
might get better results . City Attorney Clayton identified her they
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cite the occupant and notify the owner. Councilman Roberts pointed
out that would work on commercial as well as residential properties .
City Manager Grace identified they would proceed by responding to
complaints as well as patrolling. Regarding the affidavit issue,
right now the Code requires them to get someone to sign an affidavit
for a complaint. They had not enforced that other than in two
instances that he was aware of. He felt they needed to clean up the
Code. He felt if someone called in a violation that they should make
them sign.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they needed someone from outside to look
at all of the Codes or if it was something that could be done in-
house. City Manager Grace felt they needed to start getting the land
development codes updated too. He felt there was a short term and
long term approach on that. He was going to ask staff to come up with
some changes they knew about that were sore thumbs that had been
hanging around for a long time and get those done and take action on
those. He felt looking at the codes across the board was going to
take a while. He suggested referring that to the LDRA or creating a
separate committee and giving them a period of time to do a
comprehensive look at the codes, with assistance from staff.
Councilman Roberts then commented on needing to look at development
codes, especially when the FIND project got underway. They needed to
have anything that would hinder someone from coming in, bringing jobs
and investing hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars into the
community, out of the way. They needed to make a more user friendly
system and look at everything that had to do with site plan approvals
for commercial projects and residential subdivisions . Developers
don' t come into a community with the intent to make a bunch of money
and devastate a community and leave town. There are a lot of
developers that care about what they put into a community but they
don' t want to run into a lot of obstacles or road blocks . They needed
a community development department that was going to work with them.
The quicker they get the project done the quicker the City benefits
from collecting money for ad valorem taxes . He felt if they were
going to start reviewing code enforcement they also needed to do a
serious review of community development as far as how to streamline
the process as quickly as possible, from site plan approval right down
to a building permit for a fence.
City Manager Grace asked Council what their ideas were on they felt
about doing the review and the LDRA doing the review of that.
Councilman Roberts felt the LDRA was for reviewing long term
comprehensive plans for the City. When someone applies for a
commercial building site, they are already working with ordinances
that were on the books and that all they had to do was look at those
and see if they were using common sense. They shouldn' t have to go
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before a Planning Board, which he felt would add their personal
dislikes and likes to the project.
City Manager Grace pointed out he was talking about the LDRA reviewing
the land development codes for an update. Councilman Roberts
described why he felt the Economic Development Board needed to be
brought in on it more than anybody as well as some local developers.
City Manager Grace asked if they were looking at an ad hoc committee
to be put together specifically for that purpose. Councilman Roberts
felt that wouldn' t be a bad idea. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of
having department heads whose jobs tie right in. She felt they may
not need the whole EDB or LDRA and only a representative of each board
to serve on an ad hoc committee.
Councilwoman Lichter stated when she looked at what was holding
builders up it seemed to her it had to do with the City not having a
definite time requirement of when to return things to them. The
builder had to have something submitted in a certain amount of days
but it was open ended of when the City would come back to them, which
she felt could be speeded up and needed to be looked at. She felt if
it was a big development that they needed a person on board that would
work people through the process, which helped expedite the process.
City Manager Grace spoke of doing that in Seminole County and he
further identified they could do that.
Councilman Roberts presented from his personal experience what happens
when you do a site plan approval. City Manager Grace informed him he
had already challenged his staff to find a half dozen permitting
process improvements they could essentially implement right away.
City Manager Grace suggested they approach it on a short and long term
approach. Short term they were going to find the sore thumbs and get
those fixed. Council needed to provide him direction on whether they
wanted to appoint an ad hoc committee or advise him how they wanted to
approach the longer term to comprehensively review the land
development codes .
Councilman Roberts wanted to expedite the review of plans.
City Manager Grace pointed out he didn' t want to have some of the
things they knew needed to be fixed now get caught up in a review that
might take months . He suggested those be separated and done now.
Councilman Roberts then spoke about establishing a CRA because they
had free tax money for businesses within that district for a certain
amount of time. City Manager Grace described he sees the CRA as one
of those things that before you jump into it they needed to think
about what they expected to accomplish with it. He informed them he
didn' t expect to generate much revenue from it for a number of years
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and that it wasn' t a quick fix. Councilman Roberts mentioned New
Smyrna Beach set their CRA up for a ten-year plan on Canal Street and
acknowledged it was a long term investment. City Manager Grace
further described it would freeze the tax base the City currently had
for the base year and that it also depended on how long they set the
program up for. He suggested that rather than decide right now that a
goal was to create a CRA that they work with the EDB and come up with
an action plan.
Councilman Roberts asked if they would have some dates on a calendar
for the FIND project as far as when Phase I would start and when lots
would be available to develop as he felt this would help the EDB
inform perspective investors what the date was that was being forecast
for the opening of the industrial park. City Manager Grace informed
him that he and City Engineer Kyle Fegley were meeting with FIND
tomorrow. He had asked Mr. Fegley to put together a project schedule
that would show all of the key dates, which would be updated
periodically so they would know where they were at.
Councilman Roberts asked when the 90 acres from the spoil site came
off the industrial tax roll. Mr. Hooper identified it would come off
when they record the deed the following year.
Councilman Roberts then spoke of Guava and Hibiscus being a rezoning
issue for a couple of years. One of the main objections the DCA had
was they had so much surplus industrial land and why they wanted to
rezone more land to industrial, light or heavy. They would be taking
90 acres of industrial land out of the picture and only replacing it
with 50 or 60 acres of light industrial . Even though the zoning on B-
2 and Light Industrial was very similar there were some differences
that would affect the way someone invests in their property.
Councilwoman Lichter identified Mr. Karet had said all along they were
going to be losing industrial land and asked to have Guava and
Hibiscus zoned as industrial. She wasn' t sure where that situation
was . City Manager Grace informed her they were already working on
that.
Planning Director Lynne Plaskett identified they received the
objections, recommendations and comments from DCA back in October
1996. At that time they had several objections regarding future land
use and the number of industrial acres the City currently had. They
weren't in compliance with the regional or state plans for other
policies and objectives . They gave them a 60-day deadline to respond
and that was not done. She discussed this with DCA and they had given
them permission to move forward with that project. She was going to
be handling the additional items that needed to be addressed with
regard to the state and regional issues, after which it could be
submitted to Council for their review and approval and then submitted
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to the State. She estimated it would be back to Council in a month or
so.
Councilman Roberts felt it would help the Economic Development Board
if they knew what the City' s master plan was for expansion with regard
to water and sewer. City Manager Grace identified they did have a
utility master plan that tied into annexation. Staff wanted to
develop a plan area boundary. He further spoke of being faced with
how they get the properties into the City and identified they had some
enclaves and undeveloped parcels .
City Manager Grace spoke of someone coming in from outside the City
that wanted utilities . They could make them annex in and provide them
with utilities or serve them and not require them to annex and just
collect the additional revenue from the 25% surcharge.
Councilman Roberts expressed concern with putting infrastructure into
neighborhoods that aren' t within the City limits and providing them
with water and sewer when they don' t annex because they are trying to
avoid paying City taxes . He also expressed concern with the people
within the enclaves receiving fire and police services from the City
and not paying for them.
City Manager Grace explained State law had changed a few years ago on
annexations . Cities couldn' t get enclaves to annex in voluntarily or
through referendum so the law was changed to allow certain types of
parcels to be done involuntarily through an Interlocal Agreement with
the County. They were going to put these things together in a
strategic plan but wanted to come back first with a planning area they
were looking at and then come back with a strategic plan of how they
approach getting these people to incorporate.
Councilwoman Lichter felt it had to be worthwhile for the City and
suggested using big highways as the mental boundaries . She felt
common sense was logic.
City Manager Grace felt as part of the development strategy one
strategy would be to sit down and put together reasons why people
would want to be in the City. He spoke of having speakers out there
to speak to the HOA' s.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke in favor of somebody developing on the
other side of I-95 and providing services, quality homes and a
shopping center.
City Manager Grace pointed out there were some things like utilities
and squaring off the boundaries that they would take into
consideration to try and draw boundary lines .
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Councilman Roberts commented on areas east of U. S . #1 having a lot of
salt in wells, which he felt may entice Cory Estates to want to come
in. He also mentioned sewer being affected by State mandates to
eliminate septic systems.
Councilman Roberts didn' t mind the City providing services to
different places outside the City limits but to large groups of homes
or certain districts, it was almost like they were using the City to
get water and sewer service without wanting to pay taxes . He felt
they needed to use water and sewer as a tool as well as fire and
police protection.
Mayor Allman called a five-minute recess at this time. When they
returned from the recess, he called a 7 : 00 p.m. time limit on this
meeting. If there was anything left to discuss, they would reconvene
at another time, hopefully within the next couple of weeks .
City Manager Grace then commented on doing a nice entrance feature
type project on U. S. #1 at the north and south ends of the City. He
felt if they did that and established credibility then it would be
easier to go to the business community and talk to them about adopting
medians.
There was then a discussion regarding the appearance of the bus
benches with the advertisements. From a beautification standpoint,
the City was receiving $2, 000 to $3, 000 a year in revenue from that,
which City Manager Grace didn' t feel was worth it. City Manager Grace
identified they needed benches as people were using them and mentioned
speaking with Votran to see if they would replace them with plain
benches .
Mayor Allman felt they needed something for the children at the bus
stops and that this needed to be addressed.
Mike Visconti spoke of this being brought up by the past Council about
uniforming where the bus benches were by adding concrete slabs. He
spoke of Port Orange advertising on a plaque. He also felt that every
other bus stop should have a shelter.
Mr. Visconti then spoke of beautifying the entrances into the City on
U. S. #1 to include signs welcoming people to Edgewater. He further
identified businesses that had been beautifying their properties and
suggested the names of the businesses be put in the newspaper.
Councilman Roberts asked about the beautification award signs that
used to be handed out. Mr. Visconti identified they were giving a
restoration award to All Florida Plumbing because they restored the
building and the beautification award was being given to a home on
Sabal.
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Councilman Hammond understood beautifying the north entrance into the
City on U. S. #1 but not the south entrance because of the potential
for Edgewater to annex properties going south. City Manager Grace
spoke of looking for a reasonable location but he didn' t think it
would have to be moved as they annex.
Mayor Allman identified the next items were the fire station and
multi-purpose gym. He felt the funds had been allocated and he wanted
it built yesterday.
City Manager Grace informed Council as far as the gym, at their next
meeting they were meeting at 5: 30 p.m. and were going to be
interviewing engineering architects for that project.
Mayor Allman questioned how long it would be before the groundbreaking
would occur once the engineering architect was selected. Mr. Hooper
further commented on what was involved with the process .
City Manager Grace felt Mayor Allman was asking for a schedule of when
they expected this to happen.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned if the gym was going to be a community
center for youth and seniors as she saw it as being multi-purpose.
Mr. Corder informed her it was going to be the Edgewater Recreation
Complex. Mr. Hooper pointed out if they had to change the name to get
money that some of those things may be eligible for grants .
City Manager Grace spoke of trying to use other grant moneys to go
towards the gymnasium which may free up some of the money that was
delegated towards the gym for beautification. Mayor Allman would be
against that. He spoke of using the grant money for beautification
and that the money allocated for the gym was for the gym. City
Manager Grace informed him they were exploring options to try to get
some flexibility for additional dollars.
Councilman Roberts felt Mayor Allman' s main concern was how quickly
they needed to get the gym done. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of being
considerate of people' s moneys and doing the best they could. She
felt it was their responsibility to explore since they had a heavy
debt in the community and that they had to be cautious when spending
people' s money.
Mayor Allman spoke of the funds already being allocated for the
gymnasium. He felt a kid was more important than a flower. He will
not vote for anything that takes any money away from the fire station
or the gym for any other project.
City Manager Grace explained he was trying to look at shifting money
around and wasn' t going to take the money away from the recreation
center. Mayor Allman asked why it had to be shifted. City Manager
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Grace informed him because the grant money couldn' t be used for
beautification. Mayor Allman agreed they needed beautification but
the community needed the fire station and the gymnasium. As long as
the money was there in equal piles, he didn' t care where it came from.
Councilman Roberts felt the gym was a large cube and the fire station
was a simple garage with overhead doors. They were functional
buildings and the construction is not that complex. It should not
take years to build these structures. Mr. Hooper further commented on
why it would take some reasonable time. He spoke of going through the
process, getting all of the permits they needed and then putting it
out on the streets for bid. The target date was the end of this
calendar year. He felt they couldn' t get there but could get pretty
darn close and estimated it would be the first quarter of next year.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they were talking about a hurricane
shelter also since they didn' t have a shelter in the city, which she
felt should also be factored in. Mayor Allman spoke of his rush being
to get it started.
Councilman Roberts felt the taxpayers' money had been spent for years
on trash trucks and paving and that this was a chance to give them
something for their tax money that they could actually enjoy.
Mayor Allman felt the citizens were generally excited about this .
Councilman Roberts felt the fire station was a good thing to boost the
image of the City and spoke of the importance of having another fire
station on the west side of the railroad tracks.
Mayor Allman asked City Manager Grace how he proposed approaching
customer service. City Manager Grace informed him that was something
he would be pushing hard as it was something he demanded. He felt it
would take a while for the employees to understand what he expects .
Councilman Roberts liked the idea of each of the Councilmembers
working with the different departments. Mayor Allman informed him not
so much work but more of a liaison type thing.
City Manager Grace informed him obviously those worked in relation to
the City Manager' s duties. Mayor Allman informed him they weren' t
interfering with his duties as they weren' t supervise and that all
they would be there to do was fact find. He was there to learn as he
wanted to be able to give an intelligent answer when it came time to
budget money. He wanted to be there to observe.
City Manager Grace suggested as the departments prepared their budgets
they could set up a meeting with each of the Councilmembers to bring
them up to speed on what they were proposing and how they got there.
Mayor Allman still wanted some kind a working knowledge.
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Councilman Gornto commented on why he felt Council observing a
department such as Finance could cause a conflict. He saw that as a
different animal than observing Refuse Collection.
Mayor Allman identified he was not trying to upend the City Manager' s
authority. He was all for the City Manager form of government and
always would be but he felt it would give them a better working
knowledge of how the City works, which is what he was interested in.
Mayor Allman was interested in Public Works, Police and Fire. He
didn' t want to go in and change policy or criticize what employees
were doing.
City Manager Grace pointed out his experience was if they have a
liaison Councilmember that is generally in a non City Manager form of
government. He further expressed concern with meetings being held and
subtle direction being provided at those meetings and if the City
Manager wasn' t involved it would be going around the City Manager.
Councilman Hammond spoke of his time being limited since he runs a
business and has kids . He wished he had more time where he could get
involved with some of these things . The only thing he could publicly
do was drop every now and then if something was going on to hear what
it was and get a feel for it.
Councilman Roberts understood where it would get the Council more in
tune to what was going on in the departments and the Councilperson
could relay his findings to the rest of the Council at a meeting if
there was something he would just like to bring to light for
discussion, not with the intention of overriding the City Manager or
the department heads . He felt it might be helpful even to the City
Manager as he wouldn' t have to spend so much time explaining things to
them as they would have a better understanding.
City Manager Grace had no problem with Council finding out what was
going on. He felt Council would be intimidating to the employees
because of who they are.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the Charter clearly stated the Council was
legislative and City Manager Grace was administrative which was the
day to day operation.
Councilwoman Lichter didn' t mind becoming an expert in one area but
she didn' t want to be limited to that.
Mayor Allman felt it would be a good thing if they were all
responsible for getting to know their City just a little bit better.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested doing a rotation every three months .
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Councilman Gornto expressed concern with creating some kind of a
problem with the line of communication and the line of authority from
the City Manager. He had no interest in getting involved with the day
to day business . He wanted to come to the meeting and have it
explained to him. From a personal standpoint, he didn' t see his job
as spending time with the department heads to find out what their
departments do.
City Manager Grace commented on his approach of privatization of
services. He felt this needed to be looked at on a case by case basis
and evaluate how they compare with some other areas that were doing it
themselves and contracting out. The first thing he would do is go to
the departments to find out what they could do to increase services
and cut costs. He felt the citizens deserved the best service at the
best price. If they could provide that, fine. If they couldn' t then
they needed to look at other alternatives.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, the Workshop adjourned at
7 : 00 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer, CMC
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