02-17-2000
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
CITIZEN CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 17, 2000
5:30 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Fowler called the Regular Meeting to order at 5:35 p.m.
in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
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Members present were Chairman Tony Fowler, Maureen Borner, Linda
Johnson, Ben DelNigro, and George Ann Keller. Frank Roberts was
absent. Also present were Code Enforcement Officer Beverly
Kinney-Johnson, City Manager Kenneth Hooper, Building Official
Dennis Fischer, and Recording Secretary Lisa Bloomer.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion to approve the minutes of January 20, 2000 as submitted
was made by Ms. Borner with a second from Ms. Keller. The motion
CARRIED 5-0.
SWEARING IN OF WITNESSES
Due to there being no cases before the board, there were no
witnesses to be sworn in.
CASES IN COMPLIANCE
Chairman Fowler asked Ms. Kinney-Johnson whether any cases had
come into compliance. Ms. Kinney-Johnson reported the following
cases to be in compliance:
99-CE-0192 - Jeffery A. & Mary Frazier
99-CE-0200 - Jeff T. Ferrell
NEW BUSINESS
Review and adoption of the citizen Code Enforcement Bv-laws
City Manager Hooper explained Council asked each of the boards to
look at and update their by-laws, in particular with reference to
appointment of new board members. He spoke about applicants
coming back before the board to be interviewed. There are some
slight changes on here. Ms. Kinney-Johnson put the by-laws
together. This is for the board's review and comments and will
go back to Council.
Chairman Fowler asked if this is the existing with some changes.
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City Manager Hooper informed him that was correct.
Ms. Keller asked about Article IV regarding vacancies and asked
if a statement needed to be added regarding the selection, if a
board member leaves and they have to make a replacement and that
they interview people, accept applications through the City and
that we review them and make suggestions after we have
interviewed people and then it goes to the City Council. She
asked if this needed to be made part of the by-laws. city
Manager Hooper stated that is what they will wind up doing.
Vacancies are to be filled by Council with the Board's process to
make interviews and then a recommendation to council. Council
reserves the right to select who they chose but they have
indicated they would like~the input. That will be a change that
will be added to it. They will make a Part C and add that to it.
Ms. Johnson stated she would like to see a little elaboration on
Article II (d) where the Chairman and Vice Chairman shall have
the privilege of discussing all matters before the Board during
the course of the meeting. She would like to include the
verbiage during the course of the meeting.
Chairman Fowler feels the way this reads we can do it outside the
meeting and that is not the intent. City Manager Hooper stated
it is not very well written but have the privilege of discussing
matters before the Board, that is what you are doing now. That
just means the Chairman and Vice Chairman have that privilege on
any issue. You obviously have that any way. He suggested
striking that and saying the Chairman and Vice Chairman shall be
members of the board and shall have the same voting rights as all
Board members, striking have the privilege of discussing all
matters before the Board. If that is acceptable they will delete
that portion.
Ms. Johnson stated at one of their previous meetings, they
discussed inserting in the order of business to put lien
reductions as a last item of business to be addressed. Ms.
Kinney-Johnson stated she asked to have new business put before
the unfinished business. Ms. Johnson stated no, just lien
reduction requests to be put at the end of business to be
discussed, as close to the end of the meeting as possible. She
understands the County Code Enforcement Board does that and it
seems to work very well for them. City Manager Hooper asked
where she wanted it, between items seven and eight? Ms. Johnson
stated that would be fine. City Manager Hooper asked if a
majority of the board wanted that.
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Mr. Fowler stated it seems to him basically it is unfinished
business but if you want to itemize it, it is not a big issue as
far as he is concerned. Ms. Johnson stated when they were
discussing it with Ms. Clayton she said we would have to change
the by-laws in order to specifically put it at the end of the
meeting. Chairman Fowler stated he assumes this was in the
workshop. Ms. Johnson stated no, the theory is these cases have
already come before the Board, been disposed of and now they are
coming back again. Why should they be allowed to come in, have
their case heard ahead of other business. Chairman Fowler stated
unless it is on the agenda, it is not going to be heard. Ms.
Johnson stated right, but we have had a number of them that were
heard first and get theirs done and are out the door. Then these
other people that are fir-st coming before the Board have had to
sit and wait, that sort of thing. The County Code Enforcement
Board does it for psychological strategic reasons and it works
rather well. It is like you have been here once, you can wait
until everyone else is done and then we'll deal with you last,
rather than giving preferential treatment. Chairman Fowler
stated in his opinion it still falls under unfinished business
because it is still a situation of a previous case but that is
fine. Itemize it as seven or eight and move the rest of them
down.
City Manager Hooper stated if the Board wanted, they would make
the corrections and bring them back at the next meeting with the
final draft and they could take a final vote at that time.
Chairman Fowler stated that would probably be the best route to
go.
Chairman Fowler asked if there were any other questions
concerning the by-laws. There were no other comments at this
time. Chairman Fowler stated he assumed there was no objection
to having them rewritten with the changes that have been
discussed and brought back to the Board next month.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
There was no unfinished business to be discussed.
DISCUSSION ITEMS
Interview applicants and submit recommendation to the City
Council for fillinq board vacancy
Chairman Fowler stated letters were sent to Delores Cucanich,
Susan Hammond, Keith Cope and Russell Baugher. Susan Hammond and
Dee Cucanich were present.
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Chairman Fowler asked the Board if they had any questions to ask
these two ladies. He asked if they wanted to chose one first. C
comes before H. You're there. Ms. Cucanich stated are you going
to interview me? It would be nice if you could hear, the only
one you could hear is Mr. Hooper. I can't hear a word you people
are saying. Chairman Fowler apologized. Ms. Cucanich went and
sat back down and asked if she was to come back. Chairman Fowler
stated please. He stated he understands she served on the Board
in the past. Ms. Cucanich stated for many years. Mayor Baugh
was Mayor and Mr. Fischer was here. Chairman Fowler asked if
there was any particular reason she dropped off. Ms. Cucanich
stated a disagreement with a City official. Chairman Fowler
asked her reason for wanting to return. Ms. Cucanich stated she
put her application in every time a new Mayor came in, every time
somebody else left. She thinks she can make a difference in this
city, she likes her City and is proud of Edgewater. She has
lived here 18 years. Ms. Keller asked if she presently on any
board now or doing any type of volunteer work. Ms. Cucanich
stated she does volunteer work for the VFW Auxiliary, Oceanview
Nursing Home, and free babysitting. Chairman Fowler asked if she
socializes with anyone on the Board. Ms. Cucanich stated no.
Chairman Fowler asked if she knows anyone on the Board. Ms.
Cucanich stated she knows Beverly and Maureen. She used to serve
with Maureen on the Board. Ms. Johnson stated Ms. Cucanich I see
you are retired. What was your background and work experience?
Ms. Cucanich stated she was a self-employed restaurant/bar owner
for 27 years. There were no further questions at this time.
Chairman Fowler asked Ms. Hammond to come to the podium. He
asked her if she has been here before. Ms. Hammond stated only
to Town Board Meetings. Chairman Fowler asked if she has been
interviewed for any Boards. Ms. Hammond stated she is currently
in the C.A.P. program. Chairman Fowler thought she was someone
this Board previously interviewed. Ms. Hammond stated she hasn't
served on any boards in the City yet. Chairman Fowler asked Ms.
Hammond if she personally knows anyone on the Board. Ms. Hammond
stated no, sir. Chairman Fowler stated he likes to avoid
conflict with friends. He proceeded to ask Ms. Hammond about the
Zoning Board she served on in New York, and the civic
association. Chairman Fowler stated so you are not totally
unfamiliar with bureaucracy. Ms. Hammond stated she is familiar
with civics, many fights. She explained her background has been
as a public servant. She was employed by the County Clerk's
office in New York, registering motor vehicles, titles, and
drivers licenses. Chairman Fowler asked for Ms. Hammond's reason
for wanting to be on the Board. Ms. Hammond stated she is a
concerned citizen that would like to help if she can. There were
no further questions at this time.
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Chairman Fowler asked City Manager Hooper exactly where they go
from here. He isn't so sure he feels comfortable, necessarily in
discussing things directly in front at this point in time,
however if that is necessary they shall. City Manager Hooper
stated that is necessary. At this point, they are seeking from
the Board a recommendation to the City Council.
Chairman Fowler asked for a motion.
Ms. Borner asked if only two people showed up for interviews.
Chairman Fowler stated two of the four that were requested. Ms.
Borner stated when one is picked, can the other one be kept until
there is another opening. City Manager Hooper explained what
happens is you will see these names and new applications that
come in. They will come back the next time there is an opening
unless they are on another board by then. Ms. Keller questioned
if they heard any responses from the other people they asked to
come in for an interview. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated no, the only
responses we received were from Ms. Hammond and Ms. Cucanich.
Ms. Borner made a motion to recommend Delores Cucanich be
appointed to the Code Enforcement Board, second by Mr. DelNigro.
Chairman Fowler stated his only feeling is basically the same
thing that has happened, whether it be fortunate or unfortunate
within the City, from the City Council on down. In a lot of
cases it has been beneficial, in some cases it has not been
beneficial. It is called new blood, new ideas and new reasoning.
Some people sit on boards for ten, fifteen or twenty years and
others beg to get on and can't get on. His feeling is new blood
and somebody that knows nobody. It keeps total objectivity and a
new fresh look at some things.
Ms. Keller asked if they would like to put something in the paper
and say we are presently looking for board members. Ms. Borner
stated it was in the paper not too long ago. Chairman Fowler
questioned if they want to drag this on and on. We have two
people that want the job or the appointment and they both want it
enough to be here. We have to decide which of the two basically.
If there is someone else you want to go after, that is fine too.
At this point, we need to make a decision between the two.
Chairman Fowler asked for any more discussion. He asked for a
roll call. The motion FAILED 2-3. Chairman Fowler, Ms. Johnson
and Ms. Keller voted NO.
Ms. Johnson made a motion to submit both names to the Council and
let them see the background, perhaps read from our minutes the
content of our interviews of the individuals, and let them make a
choice. Chairman Fowler stated boy that is passing the buck.
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Ms. Keller stated it comes down to they are making the final
decision so if they have something to go with a couple of names
of people that are interested and see the other people never
contacted anyone in the town that they were still interested.
Ms. Borner seconded the motion. The motion CARRIED 4-1.
Chairman Fowler voted NO.
Chairman Fowler stated they shall submit all information and
minutes, etc. whatever is necessary to the City Council and let
them make a choice that way.
city Manaqer Ken Hooper will discuss the possibility of retaininq
an Attorney to represent the citizens Code Enforcement Board
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City Manager Hooper explained the City Council advertised over a
two month period for City Attorney as a contract position with a
law firm. They received five applications and interviewed all of
the firms. They narrowed it down to two firms. They selected
Foley & Lardner and have offered the Code Enforcement Board their
second choice if they would like to have an attorney that
represents just the Code Enforcement Board. They also heard the
attorneys that were in front of them talking that that was a
strong recommendation, to have two separate attorneys. He has
handed out the resume and submittal of Sidney Nowell, who was the
second ranked firm. Council requested the Board look that over
and if they are interested in them, to describe that to him and
he will take that back through a contract with City Council.
Their offices are in Flagler County. They made a good
presentation. He has talked to them since and they are very
interested in serving that roll as Code Enforcement Attorney.
They would represent the Board, attend meetings, look over cases
before they are submitted. He feels they would wind up with a
better service than they have had in the past.
Ms. Johnson asked if Council is willing to change the ordinances
or codes to allow us to have independent counsel. City Manager
Hooper stated yes, they are certainly willing to do that.
Ms. Keller asked if this firm would be able to come to every
board meeting. City Manager Hooper stated yes, that is part of
the conditions of hiring them, they would be there and would be
compensated. The other firm is about $125 per hour. They have
offered rates but haven't been through negotiations yet. The
first step is if they are interested in having an attorney that
represents them as a Board, they tell him that is what they want
to do. Council has already blessed it then we will negotiate a
contract and bring it back to the Board for their review and if
they are happy with it, it will go on to Council for them to
approve the expenditure of the dollars.
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Ms. Johnson asked if there are other boards this firm may
represent with the city. City Manager Hooper stated no, just the
Code Enforcement Board.
Chairman Fowler asked if there is a night they have all cases in
compliance, there would not necessarily be a reason for him to be
here, therefore we don't incur the cost, or is it going to be a
flat rate. City Manager Hooper explained he is available once a
month. He thinks going over the agenda with the Chair or the
Chair could decide there is nothing on here but you may wind up
talking in general discussion and find you have an issue. He
recommended they have him here each time. The plan is to help
the Board have more tools to make Code Enforcement work. He is
disappointed in the fact 4t is not working through the City as
well as it could be. He isn't blaming anyone, it just hasn't
occurred. The codes are not well written. We are updating the
Land Development Code to make the codes more enforceable and
clear.
Chairman Fowler stated if there is no meeting, we are not
charged. City Manager Hooper stated no, it is an hourly rate.
There may be prep time for the attorney to get ready for it
depending on what type of issues we have here that we want to go
over with him on the type of case but generally it is an hourly
rate.
Chairman Fowler asked City Manager Hooper if he is looking for an
approval of the Board to hire this person at this point in time.
City Manager Hooper stated he would like the board to direct him
to negotiate a contract and bring it back to them. If you want
to have this attorney, tell him that is what they would like and
he will go out and negotiate a contract and bring it back. The
Board will have that in front of them to vote on and say that is
what they want to go to City Council so they can authorize the
expenditure. If they want an attorney but not this attorney,
then he thinks they need to talk. They would have to send him
back to Council and say the Board likes the idea but they want to
interview more than one firm. He thinks clearly this was the
Council's second choice, rated first by some Councilmembers.
That is why they requested they look at this firm first. They
were very impressed with their presentation and their desire to
work here.
Ms. Cucanich stated the Police Pension Board has their own
attorney. Code Enforcement is going to have their own attorney.
Isn't it feasible to get one person to do both of these jobs and
not get someone from Miami or way out where we have to pay
traveling time.
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City Manager Hooper explained there are specialties and they are
very different. He commented on what the attorney for the Police
Pension Board does. He feels you need someone with specialty
skills of that and someone that is going to be interested in how
it works and someone that will represent just that board.
Ms. Keller asked about this being the second choice of the City
Council. City Manager Hooper explained the council chose the
other firm because they had a broader number of practices. This
firm does do Code Enforcement and has some experience in it.
Mr. DelNigro asked what happened to the full-time attorney the
Council wanted to hire. City Manager Hooper stated his opinion
to Council was that our city at this time really didn't need that
and a contract attorney would work fine. They utilize Robin Wolf
to do the daily review of contracts. She is not an attorney,
she's a paralegal and goes through the process. She prepared
ordinances and resolutions. It is cost effective to have her do
that and send those over to be looked at by the attorney. The
Council chose to interview a firm first. He thinks they feel
that is more cost effective and he concurs with them.
There were no further comments or questions at this time.
Ms. Johnson stated since the firm of Chiumento, Braunstein &
Emery seems to have a sincere interest in assisting the City of
Edgewater and the council felt they ranked pretty high she would
like to make a motion to ask City Manager Hooper to see what kind
of contract he can negotiate for the representation of this
Board, second by Ms. Borner. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Dennis I. Fischer. Buildinq Official. will present the final
draft of the Land Development Code
Mr. Fischer went over Article III of the Land Development Code.
Ms. Keller commented on Section 21-34.05. She feels it is a good
idea that they have to get a permit application, go to the Code
Enforcement Officer, supply a photograph. She feels it is a good
idea that they have to post this permit. She suggested every so
often someone check to make sure that they are still abiding by
whatever the permit is allowing them to do. She is concerned
about when they aren't working on the vehicle. She feels they
should put a cover on it or store it inside a garage. She feels
it wouldn't be fair to the neighbors to have to look at a vehicle
that is left in a carport area not covered.
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Mr. Fischer asked if she was suggesting that a car cover be
installed if the car is visible, including in a carport. Ms.
Keller doesn't feel anything should be left in a carport area
that is not properly covered or contained. That could be an
unsightly mess to a neighbor. Mr. Fischer agreed to remove or
carport from Section 21.34-05 Cd). It shall be fenced, screened,
custom car cover or stored inside a garage.
Ms. Keller spoke about violations that have come before them
about carports and gas cans and tires that have been left here
and there. Mr. Fischer explained carport homes were something
about twenty years ago that were very popular because of it being
very inexpensive to finish a garage and we do have areas that
people use those as a garage and you can see everything they own.
Ms. Borner asked about a garage that does not have a door and
they put a blanket over it. She asked what that could be covered
under. Ms. Fischer explained that could come under Neglected
Premises - Section 2.1-35.06. It is hard to write a code for
every situation so you need a catch all. Ms. Borner feels if the
door is broken it could be dangerous for any children playing
near it.
Ms. Borner asked about the streets that were closed up where
there are retention ponds now and the boats and cars that are
parked there. Mr. Fischer explained that is going to be on a to
do list. That is going to be something that is going to be a
policy. The City, through Public Works, will have to come up
with what will be allowed on the closed streets that have partial
water retention. He feels this needs to be addressed to protect
the swales.
Mr. DelNigro asked about Section 21-34.05 and if you still need a
permit to park the vehicle you are going to be working on in the
garage that is all closed. Mr. Fischer explained if it is
totally from view and you never open your garage door and it is
never seen, it would probably not be a necessity. The
restoration permit is for when you bring the vehicle into the
driveway and put it on four jacks and it is not tagged.
Ms. Keller feels they should still have some kind of permit or
application just to say who's to know how long this person has
been working on it and can move it back and forth, not just
keeping it in the garage. Mr. Fischer explained in the past it
had a one year renewable. We limited it to two years. You can
get a one year permit and you can come back and get a one year
renewable. He feels that is ample enough time for something of a
dismantled nature to be laying out in public view.
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Ms. Keller stated someone may end up using their garage for a
business in a residential area and not having an occupational
license or whatever and we don't know what is going on because we
don't have a permit or a photo of the vehicle. Mr. Fischer
explained they use the photo to monitor their work and they use
the permitting to keep track of those. He doesn't think they
have had anyone come in for more than one or two vehicles at one
dwelling since we've been doing these. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated
she had one today and it is because we have been catching people
lately.
Chairman Fowler stated this limits it to one per dwelling unit.
He asked if this can be under extenuating circumstances allowed
more than one. Mr. Fischer stated currently they are trying to
limit the restoration permits to one per year. Chairman Fowler
spoke about a case in the past that he feels was an extenuating
circumstance. Mr. Fischer stated you need to set the minimum
standards and if the minimum standards are going to allow people
to do restoration work in the open in front of their house in the
view of the public, they want to limit it to one vehicle at a
time.
Chairman Fowler wants to feel assured that these codes are looked
at from an objective standpoint with logic. cities and
governments throw out mandates like they were nickels and dimes
and could care less what it does to whomever is affected by said
mandate. He doesn't want to see our City be accused of trying to
become a gated community from both ends of u.s. #1. Mr. Fischer
stated they have chewed on these to the point that they are fair.
Chairman Fowler stated there are exceptions to ever rule. Mr.
Fischer feels there is fairness and room for leeway but there are
some minimums in there. Common sense has been used in the
writing of these to make it understandable, easily read and
understood and hopefully easily enforced. If you write it simple
enough where there is not a lot of interpretation, then there is
not a lot of controversy. They are going to try and print some
literature regarding how to do certain things. If we educate the
public, show them the codes and what the minimums are and
encourage them to meet those minimums, he feels they will have an
infectious thing happen.
Ms. Hammond stated these ideas you have sound good but do you
have the people to enforce these things. She also spoke about a
lot of the yard sale signs going up on SR 442. She questioned if
this is legal and if there is an ordinance against that. It is a
big eyesore as far as she is concerned. Ms. Hammond again
expressed concern about having enough people to enforce the
codes. She has had in her neighborhood for four or five years
now a jeep sitting on the side of the house that has not moved
and grass and trees have grown up around it. Obviously, whatever
it is hasn't been enforced.
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Mr. Fischer stated they presently now have two Code Enforcement
Officers. Ms. Borner suggested she could turn in a complaint to
the Code Enforcement Department. Ms. Hammond stated a lot of
people have objections to ratting on their neighbors.
Chairman Fowler wanted to speak about section 21-35.04 and
presented a scenario. Mr. Fischer stated the way it is written
now, it is virtually going to banned these from existence because
they can not meet the standard wind requirements. He would
suggest these be ban from front yards requiring them to be
adequately secured to the ground. He spoke about the dangers of
these during high wind storms.
Mr. DelNigro stated the County bans these period. Mr. Fischer
stated New Smyrna Beach doesn't allow them either but he knows of
some that exist. They don't permit them but they don't enforce
their removal either. Mr. DelNigro stated they made him take
three of them down because they wouldn't withstand 125 mile an
hour winds.
City Manager Hooper suggested the Board review this and the code
compliance process procedures and come back next month with
comments and make a recommendation to Council. He feels there
are things this Board deals with where their comments would be
important. Mr. Fischer stated they want to make this as clear
and precise as they can so there is not room for interpretation.
City Manager Hooper stated the Land Development Code is in its
final stages. He will present it to the Planning & Zoning Board
next week and it is the first time they have seen the whole book.
He fully expects that when it is adopted there will be a glitch
type committee put together to go through and look over the
things that were put in place that were either put in wrong or
forgotten. He suggested the Board review what they have been
given.
City Manager Hooper commented on his handout being enforcement
procedures. All they have done is make sure these are up-to-
date. The new Code Enforcement attorney would also have a shot
at these. He urged them to feel free to contact either Mr.
Fischer, Ms. Kinney-Johnson, or himself.
Chairman Fowler feels that is a very good idea.
City Manager Hooper commented on there being more detail in the
code compliance process. Mr. Fischer urged them to contact him
at 424-2411 or Ms. Kinney-Johnson at 424-2414 with any questions.
Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated they also have e-mail and gave the
board the address.
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City Manager Hooper urged the Board to get in touch with one of
the three of them if they have any questions.
Ms. Keller spoke about a case last month and if it was resolved.
They asked the Code Enforcement Officer to go back and speak
directly with the person on Vista Palm Drive. We never heard if
anything was resolved. Is it still in non-compliance?
Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated they are in compliance. Mr. Williams
sent Ms. Johnson a letter with an explanation. Ms. Johnson
commented on the content of the memo. City Manager Hooper
questioned if he had sent it to everyone. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
stated she made a special request. Ms. Keller feels everyone
should get a copy of somebhing like that. She feels they should
get something back in writing keeping them updated on cases.
City Manager Hooper stated point well taken and they will make
sure of that. He feels if it is sent to one Board member, it
should be sent to all.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Chairman Fowler
adjourned the meeting at 7:00 p.m.
Minutes submitted by
Lisa Bloomer
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