06-07-1999 - Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
JUNE 7, 1999
6:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 6:08 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Randy Allman
Councilman James Gornto
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilman Gary Roberts
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Attorney Nikki Clayton
city Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Deputy City Clerk Lisa Kruckmeyer
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the workshop is to discuss and refine the
requirements for building detached garages on residentally zoned
property.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
City Attorney Clayton went over the attached handout regarding
current regulations of local cities.
City Manager Hooper spoke about Florida Shores being an older
subdivision. They don't have a homeowner's association with any
strength.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke about looking at the houses and
detached garages in Edgewater. She asked about lots. city
Attorney Clayton explained the lot is going to be the piece of
property that is permitted for the residential use. In Florida
Shores, you have to have a minimum of two lots in order to build.
City Manager Hooper explained if you have two lots and you
combine them and now it is a buildable lot, the structure can be
30% of the sum of the two lots.
There was further discussion regarding a structure being 30% of
the total number of lots.
Councilman Roberts doesn't see the 30% coverage or the setbacks
as being a problem, what has come to everyone's attention is
height and the overall square footage of a detached garage. He
feels these are the critical items that need to be looked at. He
also feels there should be limitations on the square footage on
garages. If you need more than 1,000 square feet of garage
something is wrong to be living in Florida Shores.
City Manager Hooper explained some of the other entities have
requirements that the detached garage can't be bigger than the
principle house.
There was further discussion regarding height.
city Attorney Clayton explained there are two ways to attack the
issue. One is through the use restrictions and one is through
the building restrictions.
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All of Council agreed height is the issue that needs to be looked
at.
Councilman Roberts feels these tall garages affect the value of
the neighborhood. You want fairly decent conformity in a
neighborhood so the value of your home on the market is
protected.
city Attorney Clayton went over variations to what they are
talking about. She spoke about a downtown district in the city
of Orlando that has taken off in recent years in value because of
some of the regulations they adopted. When the area was
developed it was permitting garages with a garage apartment above
it. There was a lot of debate in the City about whether or not
to permit that to continue. The conclusion was that it adds
value, is reminiscent of the character of the neighborhood in the
first place, there is no reason for it not to be so and it also
permits the principle user or residential owner to offset the
cost of maintaining the value and repair of his principle home.
This is an older neighborhood.
Councilman Roberts feels this would be more in tune with a major
City. City Attorney Clayton explained you only learn how to deal
with your own situation by comparing other jurisdictions. City
Attorney Clayton agreed to, if Council would like, bring back
choices of what could be applied to the district and this is
something that will apply across the City in the different zoning
categories.
City Manager Hooper asked to take some public input on this.
Staff could bring back numbers to talk about, debate and have a
public hearing or incorporate them into the Land Development
Code.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they did not go and ride around
looking for these garages. The Councilman that brought it up is
responding to phone calls he received.
Councilman Hammond stated as of today if three or four people
want to come in and build a structure like this, we have no way
of saying no. City Manager Hooper explained it would require an
emergency ordinance or some mechanism to have something quick if
they wanted it changed today.
Councilman Hammond would like to see how they could stop this
until they come to an agreement. This issue came up ten years
ago and nothing happened. city Manager Hooper explained the
simplest is a moratorium on just saying no more detached building
permits until this is reviewed with Land Development Code
requirements.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there are any permits in the works.
City Manager Hooper informed her not that he knows of.
Councilman Roberts doesn't feel there will be a rash of them
going up over night and it should be something that is
straightened out and more common sense regulations put on. This
should have been done when that crazy garage was built on
Riverside Drive that looks like an industrial park garage.
Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated he drove by that
garage and he feels it is ugly. If more of these type of garages
are built in Florida Shores, we are in deep trouble. It does not
conform with any of the homes in the area. He urged Council to
do something about this and do it immediately.
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Council Workshop
June 7, 1999
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Larry Loeffler, 2104 Travelers Palm Drive, informed Council of
what is going to be kept in his garage. He thinks people would
rather look at the stuff in his yard then his garage doors. He
thought he was doing the right thing by trying to make it look
like the house. He feels people are drawing a conclusion before
it is completed with landscaping.
Mr. Loeffler asked if you do a restriction on garages, what about
these guys that have airport property, how are they going to get
their planes in. Councilman Roberts stated that is different.
Mr. Loeffler feels the garage looks better than the tarp he had
up and nobody complained about it.
Councilman Roberts feels some of this is getting out of hand.
The regulations are designed for safety in the community and to
protect property values. Mr. Loeffler stated Florida Shores is
not a gated community. He lives there because he can do what he
wants. Councilman Roberts stated whether it is a gated community
or not, you still need regulations.
Mr. Loeffler stated the peak of his garage is 26 feet. He could
have put a 40 X 60 on there but he put a 40 X 50.
Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to regulate height. other
cities have some restrictions on height. Mayor Allman stated the
only other city he sees is New Smyrna Beach with 25 feet. Port
Orange and Oveido are like us. Ormond Beach, from what he reads,
doesn't have a height restriction at all. City Attorney Clayton
stated they have a size limitation of 150 feet. Councilwoman
Lichter feels Port Orange is very tight with their zoning.
Mrs. Loeffler, 2104 Travelers Palm Drive, stated if you are going
to restrict what is put in Florida Shores, you will be telling me
what I can buy and what I can have. They have spent a lot of
money and they have a lot of money sitting outside that was being
destroyed which is why they built the garage. She doesn't want
anybody telling her what she can and can't have. They are also
going to be putting in a pool. She feels it doesn't seem right.
She stated they have a ditch behind them with no back access.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they are trying to investigate a
situation that Councilman Hammond received calls on which we do
anyway and see if there may be a gentle way to handle the problem
to accommodate everybody.
Mrs. Loeffler stated everything you do they just beat you down.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested handling this on a case by case
basis.
Councilman Roberts stated if they don't control some of the
regulations now, someone could build an even bigger garage.
Mrs. Loeffler stated it is getting to be like a circus by her
because of people driving by. Councilwoman Lichter stated they
are having a workshop to try to plan a little.
Ben DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, asked about swimming pools
with screen enclosures. He asked if there are regulations on
these. City Attorney Clayton explained screen enclosures are
treated differently and they are exempted in many regards.
Councilman Roberts explained usually they tie into the main roof
of the house.
Mr. DelNigro stated from what he is hearing, the Council is going
to tell the residents what to do in Florida Shores.
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June 7, 1999
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councilman Hammond stated they are not talking about just Florida
Shores, they are talking about Edgewater as a whole. They are
trying to come up with some conformity.
Mr. DelNigro feels that citizens that complain about different
things in Florida Shores should have to come in and sign a
complaint and have it notarized. Mayor Allman stated it is not
so much a complaint as it is looking for consideration from the
City Council to look into this matter.
There was discussion regarding regulations and residents being
told what to do with their property.
Mayor Allman feels some of these regulations needs to be revised.
He feels 35 feet is ridiculous in height for a garage.
Councilwoman Lichter feels it goes in proportion to the house how
these things look.
Mayor Allman feels they need to call a public hearing on the
matter as soon as possible. He doesn't want to put a moratorium
on building. He asked City Manager Hooper to arrange for a
public hearing on this matter.
Jay Michael McKay, 1717 S. Riverside Drive, stated he was the
person singled out with the eyesore. He heard about it in the
Daytona Beach News Journal. He has a lot of issues to go over
but agreed to continue at the public hearing.
Mayor Allman asked Mr. McKay to wait until the public hearing
where he could give him 30 minutes for his presentation.
City Manager Hooper stated the first meeting in July, being July
19th, is going to be the quickest they will be able to do
something.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested if a permit application comes in
front of Mr. Fischer perhaps they could have them wait until they
can resolve this.
City Manager Hooper explained if they want to do a moratorium and
say no more garage permits until the July 19th meeting they could
have a moratorium that could be on for June 21st
Councilman Roberts feels there is no reason someone should have
to wait for a permit for a standard garage.
City Manager Hooper confirmed with Council July 19th they will
hold a public hearing and talk about height restriction and size
limitation.
Councilman Roberts and Maxor Allman would like to have something
done earlier than July 19 h.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested having a workshop to discuss the
Charter and the garages.
City Manager Hooper explained on June 21st they will be starting
at 6:00 p.m. to discuss the Charter. Councilwoman Lichter feels
the Charter is a complicated issue and doesn't feel one hour is
going to be enough time to discuss this. She suggested making a
special night where they discuss the Charter and the garages.
Mayor Allman asked if they need an ordinance drafted before a
public hearing. City Manager Hooper informed him yes, otherwise
you are just discussing. You don't have anything for the public
to comment on.
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June 7, 1999
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Mayor Allman would like to get the viewpoint of the public before
they draft an ordinance. City Manager Hooper informed him they
need to have an ordinance in order to discuss. He informed
Council most of these subdivisions in other places have their own
deed restrictions.
Mayor Allman stated now we are going to put gated restrictions
upon ungated communities. Councilman Roberts stated even if you
drop it from 35 to 25 feet you can still build an enormous
garage.
Mayor Allman again stated he wanted to get public input.
Councilwoman Lichter stated you sometimes can get a better type
of feedback from the newsletter than the amount of people that
show up at a meeting.
City Attorney Clayton stated you can fail to adopt an ordinance
as well as adopt. They will try to line up choices. They will
plug in the numbers of the area and the height.
City Manager Hooper informed Council if they would like more
debate time they could hold another work session an advertise it
as such that you want public input and just talk about it.
Mayor Allman would rather hold another work session.
City Manager Hooper informed Council on June 21st the Charter is
scheduled from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Budget hearings will be on July
7th and July 8th. July 19th is the next regular meeting.
It was the consensus of Council to hold the next workshop on June
28th at 7
p.m.
Larry Loeffler stated if they are going to draw something up for
people to look at, out on Spruce Creek Circle there is a garage
with eight foot walls but his peak his taller than his. Mayor
Allman stated they won't be drawing anything up for this public
hearing. They are just going to take input from the public.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Hammond
made a motion to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 7:18 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Kruckmeyer
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June 7, 1999