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06-07-1999 - Workshop '-' ." CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP JUNE 7, 1999 6:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Allman called the Workshop to order at 6:08 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Randy Allman Councilman James Gornto Councilman Myron Hammond Councilman Gary Roberts Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Attorney Nikki Clayton city Manager Kenneth Hooper City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Deputy City Clerk Lisa Kruckmeyer Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Excused Present Excused MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of the workshop is to discuss and refine the requirements for building detached garages on residentally zoned property. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. City Attorney Clayton went over the attached handout regarding current regulations of local cities. City Manager Hooper spoke about Florida Shores being an older subdivision. They don't have a homeowner's association with any strength. Councilwoman Lichter spoke about looking at the houses and detached garages in Edgewater. She asked about lots. city Attorney Clayton explained the lot is going to be the piece of property that is permitted for the residential use. In Florida Shores, you have to have a minimum of two lots in order to build. City Manager Hooper explained if you have two lots and you combine them and now it is a buildable lot, the structure can be 30% of the sum of the two lots. There was further discussion regarding a structure being 30% of the total number of lots. Councilman Roberts doesn't see the 30% coverage or the setbacks as being a problem, what has come to everyone's attention is height and the overall square footage of a detached garage. He feels these are the critical items that need to be looked at. He also feels there should be limitations on the square footage on garages. If you need more than 1,000 square feet of garage something is wrong to be living in Florida Shores. City Manager Hooper explained some of the other entities have requirements that the detached garage can't be bigger than the principle house. There was further discussion regarding height. city Attorney Clayton explained there are two ways to attack the issue. One is through the use restrictions and one is through the building restrictions. ...... ...., All of Council agreed height is the issue that needs to be looked at. Councilman Roberts feels these tall garages affect the value of the neighborhood. You want fairly decent conformity in a neighborhood so the value of your home on the market is protected. city Attorney Clayton went over variations to what they are talking about. She spoke about a downtown district in the city of Orlando that has taken off in recent years in value because of some of the regulations they adopted. When the area was developed it was permitting garages with a garage apartment above it. There was a lot of debate in the City about whether or not to permit that to continue. The conclusion was that it adds value, is reminiscent of the character of the neighborhood in the first place, there is no reason for it not to be so and it also permits the principle user or residential owner to offset the cost of maintaining the value and repair of his principle home. This is an older neighborhood. Councilman Roberts feels this would be more in tune with a major City. City Attorney Clayton explained you only learn how to deal with your own situation by comparing other jurisdictions. City Attorney Clayton agreed to, if Council would like, bring back choices of what could be applied to the district and this is something that will apply across the City in the different zoning categories. City Manager Hooper asked to take some public input on this. Staff could bring back numbers to talk about, debate and have a public hearing or incorporate them into the Land Development Code. Councilwoman Lichter stated they did not go and ride around looking for these garages. The Councilman that brought it up is responding to phone calls he received. Councilman Hammond stated as of today if three or four people want to come in and build a structure like this, we have no way of saying no. City Manager Hooper explained it would require an emergency ordinance or some mechanism to have something quick if they wanted it changed today. Councilman Hammond would like to see how they could stop this until they come to an agreement. This issue came up ten years ago and nothing happened. city Manager Hooper explained the simplest is a moratorium on just saying no more detached building permits until this is reviewed with Land Development Code requirements. Councilwoman Lichter asked if there are any permits in the works. City Manager Hooper informed her not that he knows of. Councilman Roberts doesn't feel there will be a rash of them going up over night and it should be something that is straightened out and more common sense regulations put on. This should have been done when that crazy garage was built on Riverside Drive that looks like an industrial park garage. Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated he drove by that garage and he feels it is ugly. If more of these type of garages are built in Florida Shores, we are in deep trouble. It does not conform with any of the homes in the area. He urged Council to do something about this and do it immediately. Page -2- Council Workshop June 7, 1999 ~ ~ Larry Loeffler, 2104 Travelers Palm Drive, informed Council of what is going to be kept in his garage. He thinks people would rather look at the stuff in his yard then his garage doors. He thought he was doing the right thing by trying to make it look like the house. He feels people are drawing a conclusion before it is completed with landscaping. Mr. Loeffler asked if you do a restriction on garages, what about these guys that have airport property, how are they going to get their planes in. Councilman Roberts stated that is different. Mr. Loeffler feels the garage looks better than the tarp he had up and nobody complained about it. Councilman Roberts feels some of this is getting out of hand. The regulations are designed for safety in the community and to protect property values. Mr. Loeffler stated Florida Shores is not a gated community. He lives there because he can do what he wants. Councilman Roberts stated whether it is a gated community or not, you still need regulations. Mr. Loeffler stated the peak of his garage is 26 feet. He could have put a 40 X 60 on there but he put a 40 X 50. Councilwoman Lichter feels they need to regulate height. other cities have some restrictions on height. Mayor Allman stated the only other city he sees is New Smyrna Beach with 25 feet. Port Orange and Oveido are like us. Ormond Beach, from what he reads, doesn't have a height restriction at all. City Attorney Clayton stated they have a size limitation of 150 feet. Councilwoman Lichter feels Port Orange is very tight with their zoning. Mrs. Loeffler, 2104 Travelers Palm Drive, stated if you are going to restrict what is put in Florida Shores, you will be telling me what I can buy and what I can have. They have spent a lot of money and they have a lot of money sitting outside that was being destroyed which is why they built the garage. She doesn't want anybody telling her what she can and can't have. They are also going to be putting in a pool. She feels it doesn't seem right. She stated they have a ditch behind them with no back access. Councilwoman Lichter stated they are trying to investigate a situation that Councilman Hammond received calls on which we do anyway and see if there may be a gentle way to handle the problem to accommodate everybody. Mrs. Loeffler stated everything you do they just beat you down. Councilwoman Lichter suggested handling this on a case by case basis. Councilman Roberts stated if they don't control some of the regulations now, someone could build an even bigger garage. Mrs. Loeffler stated it is getting to be like a circus by her because of people driving by. Councilwoman Lichter stated they are having a workshop to try to plan a little. Ben DelNigro, 3130 Tamarind Drive, asked about swimming pools with screen enclosures. He asked if there are regulations on these. City Attorney Clayton explained screen enclosures are treated differently and they are exempted in many regards. Councilman Roberts explained usually they tie into the main roof of the house. Mr. DelNigro stated from what he is hearing, the Council is going to tell the residents what to do in Florida Shores. Page -3- Council Workshop June 7, 1999 "-' """" councilman Hammond stated they are not talking about just Florida Shores, they are talking about Edgewater as a whole. They are trying to come up with some conformity. Mr. DelNigro feels that citizens that complain about different things in Florida Shores should have to come in and sign a complaint and have it notarized. Mayor Allman stated it is not so much a complaint as it is looking for consideration from the City Council to look into this matter. There was discussion regarding regulations and residents being told what to do with their property. Mayor Allman feels some of these regulations needs to be revised. He feels 35 feet is ridiculous in height for a garage. Councilwoman Lichter feels it goes in proportion to the house how these things look. Mayor Allman feels they need to call a public hearing on the matter as soon as possible. He doesn't want to put a moratorium on building. He asked City Manager Hooper to arrange for a public hearing on this matter. Jay Michael McKay, 1717 S. Riverside Drive, stated he was the person singled out with the eyesore. He heard about it in the Daytona Beach News Journal. He has a lot of issues to go over but agreed to continue at the public hearing. Mayor Allman asked Mr. McKay to wait until the public hearing where he could give him 30 minutes for his presentation. City Manager Hooper stated the first meeting in July, being July 19th, is going to be the quickest they will be able to do something. Councilwoman Lichter suggested if a permit application comes in front of Mr. Fischer perhaps they could have them wait until they can resolve this. City Manager Hooper explained if they want to do a moratorium and say no more garage permits until the July 19th meeting they could have a moratorium that could be on for June 21st Councilman Roberts feels there is no reason someone should have to wait for a permit for a standard garage. City Manager Hooper confirmed with Council July 19th they will hold a public hearing and talk about height restriction and size limitation. Councilman Roberts and Maxor Allman would like to have something done earlier than July 19 h. Councilwoman Lichter suggested having a workshop to discuss the Charter and the garages. City Manager Hooper explained on June 21st they will be starting at 6:00 p.m. to discuss the Charter. Councilwoman Lichter feels the Charter is a complicated issue and doesn't feel one hour is going to be enough time to discuss this. She suggested making a special night where they discuss the Charter and the garages. Mayor Allman asked if they need an ordinance drafted before a public hearing. City Manager Hooper informed him yes, otherwise you are just discussing. You don't have anything for the public to comment on. Page -4- Council Workshop June 7, 1999 ~ ..." Mayor Allman would like to get the viewpoint of the public before they draft an ordinance. City Manager Hooper informed him they need to have an ordinance in order to discuss. He informed Council most of these subdivisions in other places have their own deed restrictions. Mayor Allman stated now we are going to put gated restrictions upon ungated communities. Councilman Roberts stated even if you drop it from 35 to 25 feet you can still build an enormous garage. Mayor Allman again stated he wanted to get public input. Councilwoman Lichter stated you sometimes can get a better type of feedback from the newsletter than the amount of people that show up at a meeting. City Attorney Clayton stated you can fail to adopt an ordinance as well as adopt. They will try to line up choices. They will plug in the numbers of the area and the height. City Manager Hooper informed Council if they would like more debate time they could hold another work session an advertise it as such that you want public input and just talk about it. Mayor Allman would rather hold another work session. City Manager Hooper informed Council on June 21st the Charter is scheduled from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Budget hearings will be on July 7th and July 8th. July 19th is the next regular meeting. It was the consensus of Council to hold the next workshop on June 28th at 7 p.m. Larry Loeffler stated if they are going to draw something up for people to look at, out on Spruce Creek Circle there is a garage with eight foot walls but his peak his taller than his. Mayor Allman stated they won't be drawing anything up for this public hearing. They are just going to take input from the public. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilman Hammond made a motion to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 7:18 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Kruckmeyer Page -5- Council Workshop June 7, 1999