03-27-2000 - Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
MARCH 27, 2000
6:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Schmidt called the Workshop to order at 6:00 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Police Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Lieutenant William Britain
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss stormwater related
problems and future agenda items.
City Manager Hooper explained they would be having an up-to-date
historical discussion on stormwater, storwmater utilities, all
the money spent, what is done with it, some of the events that
occurred during the storms and tropical depressions and flooding.
Department of Environmental Services Director Terry Wadsworth
made a Power Point presentation. He went over the definitions of
stormwater, E.D.U., and site mitigation. He then went over the
stormwater utility history. He further commented on why a
stormwater utility was created as a separate entity.
Mr. Wadsworth presented the background the City came up with to
create what an E.D.U. (Equivalent Drainage Unit) is and the
financial considerations. He then went over the revenue section
of the Stormwater Budget and the benefits derived from the
Stormwater utility.
Deputy Director of Environmental Services Brenda Johnson went
over the way the Stormwater utility actually functions as far as
personnel and equipment and some of the things they do.
There was a discussion regarding concerns from residents at
Shangri La regarding the lake and gigantic culvert that have been
put at the Recreation Complex that goes into their stream. Ms.
Johnson explained that was one of the concerns they had in doing
the Recreational Complex. The culvert was installed for future
considerations. All of this is permitted with st. John's and
they have very strict criteria. Ms. Johnson agreed to look at
this. The City's main concerns are the canals, the retention
ponds and the major conveyance systems.
There was a brief discussion regarding how often the canals are
cleaned. There was further discussion regarding two of the
drainage basins draining into the Gabordy Canal which in turn
drains into the Indian River and one drainage basin draining into
the Turnbull Hammock. There are certain sections, such as
Edgewater Landing and Pelican Cove East, that drain directly into
the river and so do some homes that are directly on Riverside
Drive.
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Ms. Johnson spoke about procedures for new homes and businesses
and inspections that are done with regarding to drainage.
Ms. Johnson then went over the road improvement project and what
that brought on to the Stormwater utility.
There was a brief discussion regarding some culverts where there
has been undercutting of the swale. Instead of water going
through it, it has found a path around it and has eroded from
underneath it. Councilwoman Lichter expressed concern regarding
this being unsafe.
Ms. Johnson then went on to explain some of storm events we have
had during 1999 and some of the areas where they had problems.
There was a brief discussion regarding other cities helping out
if their city doesn't have as much damage as Edgewater.
There was a discussion regarding the C.E.R.T. team helping out
during emergencies.
Ms. Johnson then went over ground water table elevations in
Edgewater.
There was a discussion regarding P.E.R.C. tests being done.
Ms. Johnson spoke about what they identified during the storm
system. It was actually a very good test for our system because
with all the improvements that were done with the Stormwater
Master Plan in 1990 and the road paving project, it kind of gave
us an idea of where our faults were and how everything was going
to work in a major event. Now that they have identified those
areas, where do we go from here? She agreed to let Mr. Wadsworth
take over from here.
City Manager Hooper further talked about the storm events and the
storm system that we have now.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she knows the retention ponds are in
Florida Shores but does the roadway design meet standards. City
Manager Hooper stated in Florida Shores, it's the subdivision,
its designed for 25-year storm. The subdivision and the roads
inside there. That subdivision had to be retrofitted so much it
really isn't a 25-year, 24-hour. It's as close as you can get
dealing with old subdivisions.
Mr. Wadsworth informed Council of what they are doing to improve
the system right now, what they have found and the action they
are taking.
Mr. Wadsworth briefly spoke about the flooding problem at
Carter's. Councilwoman Lichter asked if Volusia county Mosquito
Control were invited to come tonight. Mr. Newell stated he was
told they were supposed to be here tonight. City Manager Hooper
stated he contacted them and they could not make tonight but Mary
Ann Connor is going to meet us out there Thursday and go through
and look at this canal. They have assured him they will come out
and clean this mosquito canal as soon as we identify for them the
proper one.
Mr. Newell asked to speak. Mayor Schmidt asked him to keep it
short.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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Mr. Newell stated you say that they are going to come out and
look at that but ya'll cleaned down this side but what about this
section here. Ya'll don't want to do anything about this. So
that is what you are saying? You are after the County. The
County was supposed to have been here tonight but they aren't
here tonight that is why he is here. He wants to know what they
are going to do. He has a right here to say on this and he would
like to ask the Mayor, he would like a full copy of tonight's
session. He wants the whole session and he would like copies of
tonight's meeting because he needs it. Mayor Schmidt informed
him as soon as it is ready he can obtain a copy from the City
Clerk. Mr. Newell stated he has waited six months now. He
stated hurricane season is coming up in two months. He is asking
the Council. You people represent the City and this is what he
wants to know.
Mr. Wadsworth spoke about a meeting they are going to have with
Florida East Coast Railroad on Thursday. He spoke about problem
areas and stated they were due to the railroad drainage and
right-of-way. They aren't maintained like they once were. We
have contacted them and they have agreed to send someone down to
review those areas with us to see if we can get some relief.
Mayor Schmidt asked if there is any way they can do an agreement
with them to where we maintain it and they pay us. city Manager
Hooper stated it sounds good and it is a good idea. He spoke of
about the railroad being a tough agency to deal with.
City Manager Hooper stated if any Councilmember would like to be
there he can post the meeting, if more than one is planning on
attending.
Mr. Wadsworth informed Council they have tried to maintain
facilities within the F.E.C. right-of-way before and unbeknownst
to us they actually have train police and they threatened to
confiscate our equipment and jail the operator at the time. They
aren't an easy agency to deal with.
Mr. Wadsworth briefly spoke about reimbursement the City is still
waiting for from F.E.M.A.
Mr. Wadsworth stated they expect next month to get approval, at
the st. John's Governing Board meeting, for a grant of about
$202,000 for doing some stormwater improvements at the large lake
by the sewer plant on Mango Tree.
Mr. Wadsworth spoke about updating the Stormwater Management
Master Plan and the cost being approximately $62,000 with a
reimbursement of up to $20,000 from st. John's. He hopes to have
this to the Council around the second meeting in April.
City Manager Hooper asked Mr. Wadsworth to speak about the hotel
site. He asked Mr. Wadsworth to describe what is there. City
Manager Hooper described at the last meeting that it goes through
a County owned mosquito ditch into the City maintained ditch and
where we stand with that. He asked Mr. Wadsworth to summarize
that for them, which he did at this time.
There was a brief discussion regarding what East Volusia Mosquito
Control District is supposed to be doing. City Manager Hooper
asked if they are funded in any special way or are they just part
of the County's General Fund. Mr. Wadsworth stated he believes
they are part of the county's general fund and they are just tax
based. They have been stepped down considerably over the years
and they really don't have a lot of equipment to do the work any
more.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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Councilwoman Lichter stated if legally they find they are still
responsible and nothing happens, is there not a way legally to
write them a letter requesting some type of action so they can be
required to do what they are supposed to do. city Manager Hooper
stated he thinks what they will find is they will honor and say
they own the mosquito control canal from his property to our
ditch. The question comes do they own anything that is on his
private property. That is what we have to get them to answer.
If they own or have easements across his private property, then
it is up to them to have some level of effort to help maintain
and control the maintenance of it.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked why is it so hard to ask somebody what
they own. City Manager Hooper explained some of the records are
very old, early 1920's kind of assessment that was set up for
mosquito and drainage control. They owned right-of-way. The
County came in and took over parts of it. Who owns what gets
vague after a period of time and then the County goes in and
takes over the maintenance operation but not the spraying for the
mosquito control. Honestly, they just rely on somebody to
complain. If there is never a complaint, they don't do anything.
In this case, he thinks they clearly will come out and clean that
ditch. They will have to do some legal research to find out if
they own or have any legal obligations for an easement that
crosses the motel site.
Councilwoman Lichter stated because the City took Carter's Motel
site into the City it might end up the City's responsibility.
City Manager Hooper stated or it is private. It may be that
nobody owns, except the individual owner of the site, the
drainage on site.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is water that we have from
one of our systems that is going in there and is the new building
next door adding to the problem. City Manager Hooper stated that
is our problem. He explained what leaves Carter's site drains
through a County ditch and goes into a City ditch. Upstream from
that is a medical office that has been permitted that drains onto
either that easement, if an easement exists, or private property.
There is an obligation of the County, if it is County easement.
If it is City, then we got ourselves into the fact that we have
allowed a building to go in that contributes water to that.
We've either got to fix it or remove the water from it and find a
different path. He spoke about title research, legal easements
and who has legal access to that. They are trying to determine
who has that responsibility.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about on-site mitigation and if it
kicks into this situation. Mr. Wadsworth explained Mr. Newell
has a pass-through system. He has pipes that drain the water
from his property into the canal. In order to get any mitigation
credits on the bill, you have to be able to go ahead and provide
retention. If they could help him out that way, he would
certainly want to do it but that really doesn't apply to this
case at all.
There was a discussion regarding the fee for moving the water
offsite.
City Manager Hooper spoke about stormwater in general and how the
system works. We need to spend a little bit of money to figure
out where to put some better improvements in, are there things
you can route in a different direction to get them quicker to the
main canals.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated we are going to spend roughly $40,000
to find out what we can do. City Manager Hooper stated yes, we
are going to update a Master Plan that was done ten years ago and
that will identify a list of projects that need to be done.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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Councilwoman Rhodes asked how long this will take. City Manager
Hooper explained the study itself is a three-month deal. He
further commented on what will be involved with the study.
There was a brief discussion regarding the strange weather we
have been having.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the grants we are getting are
matching grants. Mr. Wadsworth stated the grant we are getting,
we have to put up $142,000 and they are putting up $202,000. It
varies on the program and the type of improving you are doing.
Councilwoman Rhodes spoke about homes flooding. She doesn't feel
it is a significant number of houses being flooded for the amount
of rain we had. It is no worse than any place in America. She
expressed concern with roads flooding.
There was a brief discussion regarding moving water from flooded
areas.
City Manager Hooper explained our improvements will be
maintenance driven. Everything that can be done to make the
system work better is being worked on.
Councilwoman Lichter asked where the F.E.M.A. money will go when
it comes in. Mr. Wadsworth stated it would come back to the
General Fund for distribution and then it would be distributed to
the appropriate departments. City Manager Hooper stated each
department that had overtime hours had an amount. If that budget
goes over, you will get reimbursed that amount. If there is
extra, it stays in a pool of cash that will be used for
stormwater improvements.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if that includes pickup of debris.
Mr. Wadsworth stated that is a separate issue and that has pretty
much been dealt with. City Manager Hooper spoke about the money
coming in from F.E.M.A. for the debris cleanup.
Councilman Vincenzi asked how much the contractor cost? Mr.
Wadsworth stated the revised estimate was about $118,000. City
Manager Hooper asked if that is 100% reimbursed. Mr. Wadsworth
stated we will have to pay a little bit of it. The State
reimburses some and the Federal reimburses some. Ms. Johnson
stated we ended up paying about 5%.
City Manager Hooper informed Council the Land Development Code
addresses a lot of these about how to avoid future as new
development comes in. They have incorporated all of the Water
Management District's better rules. They have looked at other
cities and counties and got the best that is the most streamlined
and useable and incorporated that.
Mr. Newell asked what is going on and what may happen. This has
been going on since October and he hasn't heard nothing from
nobody. You'uns have the bill of what I spent. He needs to know
something from ya'll. He feels the Council needs to sit back and
look and think if that was me, what would I do. If you can't do
that, then I don't know what you are doing up there. I'm going
to be truthful and I'm honest. He isn't asking for much. Like
Terry said, they pick up debris they clean out the ditches. They
ain't done nothing for him. It has cost him $15,000 already.
Now he has to do the streets. He wants to know what this Council
is willing to do. The ditch has not been cleaned out. He was
told at the last Council meeting, that the County is going to be
here. He needs to know something. He would like Council to sit
back and think about it and decide something.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated we are trying to do something. Ken is
trying to do something. They aren't able to tell us who owns the
property. Mr. Newell stated he is telling me it is private owned
and they can't do anything. If it is private owned, then as far
as he is concerned, what are you paying for. Nobody can tell me
this. City Manager Hooper suggested staff will get the ditch
that leads from his property to the City canal cleaned. We will
do that within the next week. We will make sure that our ditch
going out to the Indian River is clean. He thinks it is clean
now. If it is not, it will be. We will research the legal
records on his property. If it is private property, the City
can't spend any money on it. If there is an easement across
there that is dedicated to the City or County, then we will look
at it and bring back a recommendation to Council on how to solve
it.
City Manager Hooper spoke about the one upstream that he talked
about on the medical building. He has either got to reroute that
around there or find another mechanism or he has to help Mr.
Newell with his problem. He will have that answer by the time
they meet again.
Mr. Newell stated at this time last year, and we haven't had the
rain this year like last year, that ditch was bone dry and it
should be bone dry now but it's not and it never has. City
Manager Hooper stated the ground water table is still up. That
is the problem. Mr. Newell stated why is it up? We haven't had
the rain. City Manager Hooper stated because you had so much
last year, that is why it is up now.
Councilwoman Lichter listed the things staff will do to help with
this problem.
Mr. Newell stated he didn't have any problem until the storms.
When the pipe plugged up, he had to reroute it. He needs to know
something.
Mr. Newell stated what he has spent on this and what he is paying
for runoff and nobody wants to do nothing. You are doing
everything in Florida Shores and every place else, but he is
paying more than they are and he still isn't getting anything.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what Mr. Newell put that sum of money
out for. Mr. Newell stated because he could not clean it out and
then he had to put in and reroute it down the street and go back
in. Councilwoman Lichter asked if it was clogged. Mr. Newell
stated he could not get to it because a mobile home is too close
to it and if it caved off, then he has to pay for the mobile
home.
Councilwoman Lichter asked who did that? Mr. Newell stated he
finally found someone that would after making calls from Ormond
Beach down to here. They wanted the new jobs. They didn't want
to get involved in this because they had other jobs they wanted
to do. All he wants is an answer.
Mayor Schmidt stated at this time, we have identified four or
five things we are going to do. We can't obviously do the
stretch on your property until Mr. Hooper, the County, and the
Mosquito Control decide whose property that is.
Mayor Schmidt asked City Manager Hooper if this would be brought
back at the April 3rd meeting. city Manager Hooper stated the
county will be out there and they will have answers as to what is
going to occur. They will find out more about the property.
They will have the information. It may not be done, but they
will inform Council what they know and what will be done next.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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Mayor Schmidt informed Mr. Newell the April 3rd meeting will be
held at Edgewater Landing. We want to get this resolved.
Councilwoman Lichter stated you are an established business in
this community, actually you are one of the only motels.
Mayor Schmidt stated if it is something we need to do, we want to
know so we can do it. If it is the County, obviously we want to
pressure them.
Mr. Newell feels he shouldn't have to pay this kind of money. He
feels this isn't right.
Paul Jenkins, willow Oak Drive, stated we are cleaning the
ditches here and there hit and miss in Florida Shores. It seems
like there is no uniform swale design. He spoke about the
problem on Roberts Road with flooding. He spoke about the swale
being filled in when the road was paved and they put a pipe with
a drain at the corners. His ditch was just cleaned and there
really wasn't anything done that improved it. It flowed alright
the way it was before but he lost the two feet from the road
where people were able to walk alongside the road. He suggested
the City clean the ditch two or three inches lower than the pipe
and put a row of st. Augustine sod back in the bottom of the
ditch, it would grow out from both directions and fill the sides
back in fairly quick. If you put it in the bottom and it is dug
deeper than the pipe to start with, now the st. Augustine is
already built up and it's not going to keep growing higher unless
you get more dirt from somewhere else.
City Manager Hooper stated part of what the Master Plan does is
look at some of those things such as how we maintain swales and
ditches and offers a maintenance suggestion. That will be
something that is looked at also.
City Manager Hooper went over some things he needs direction on.
He asked Council if they wanted this placed on the agenda or not.
He spoke about controlling tattoo parlors and body piercing. If
Council is interested, they will pursue that and schedule a
public hearing. It was the consensus of Council to go forward
with that. City Clerk Wadsworth asked City Manager Hooper to
explain about the interlocal agreement with the County for them
to do inspections, which he did at this time.
City Manager Hooper briefly went over the occupational license
ordinance and raising the fees 5%. Fees were last raised in
1994. We make approximately $70,000 per year on occupational
license fees. Staff is recommending they at least hold a public
hearing on it and see what kind of feedback they get.
Mayor Schmidt asked when these come before them, could they have
some comparisons from other cities. City Manager Hooper agreed
to do that. He informed Council they have in front of them
generally what the draft of the ordinance will look like.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked when this will be on the agenda. City
Manager Hooper informed her it would be on the agenda at the
second meeting in April. City Clerk Wadsworth stated this would
not go into effect until occupational license renewals go out in
August. Councilwoman Rhodes expressed concern with gas taxes and
the price of fuel being up and also hitting businesses with some
more added expense. She feels this might not be such a great
idea.
It was the consensus of Council to place this on the agenda.
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
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City Manager Hooper spoke about modifying the utility procedures
ordinance. He spoke about having to pay a minimum bill even if
there is no one at the residents. He spoke about modifying the
procedure so that we do not accrue those minimum bills if someone
closes out an account and the house is vacant for a period of
time and wants to come in at a later date and sell the house and
someone else takes it over. There would be no payment during
that gap. Councilwoman Lichter asked if this causes havoc with
Mr. Wadsworth's budget. City Manager Hooper commented on changes
and the loss of money that needs to be identified. He wants to
put those procedures together. He also spoke about renting to
tenants. The water bill has to be in the owner's name. He wants
to put together the changes in one ordinance and bring it back to
Council for their consideration. This will not occur until May.
It was the consensus of Council to move forward with this.
Mayor Schmidt spoke about putting the bill in the tenants name.
When the tenant skips, do you eat the bill if you can't find
them. City Manager Hooper explained you put up a higher deposit.
City Manager Hooper informed Council the Land Development Code is
finally done. Copies are being handed out in the next couple of
days to Planning and Zoning, Code Enforcement and the Council.
Work sessions are being scheduled with the Planning and Zoning
Board and Code Enforcement Board. It is in final format and they
will be getting copies soon.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Schmidt moved
to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 7:42 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Workshop
March 27, 2000
TIlE CITY OF EDG'1;WATER
POST OFFICE BOX IOO-EDGEWATER, FLORIDA 32132-0100
Mayor Randy G. Allman
District 1 Councilman James K. Gornto
District 2 Councilman Myron F. Hammond
District 3 Councilman Gary W. Roberts
District 4 Councilwoman Judith R. Lichter
City Manager Kenneth R. Hooper
City Attorney Nikki Clayton
City Clerk Susan J. Wadsworth
JOINT WORKSHOP SESSION
BETWEEN EDGEW A TER AND OAK HILL
Edgewater Community Center
Monday
September 27, 1999
5:30 p.m.
-AGENDA-
1.
Call To Order, Roll (V'
2.
Discu~";
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Flag Salute
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t planning area and annexation boundaries
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, and availability of water and wastewater
3.
1
4.
Disc
'Jute serving Southeast V olusia.
5.
Items 1
6.
Schedulil
7.
Adjoummel
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, persons needing assistance to participate in any of these
proceedings should contact City Clerk Susan Wadsworth, 904-424-2407, prior to the meeting.
:ejm
CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE
104 NORTH RIVERSIDE DRIVE
(904)424-2404 FAX-(904)424-2421
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