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02-05-2002 - Workshop ~ ...", CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP FEBRUARY 5, 2002 6:00 P.M. EDGEWATER LANDING CLUBHOUSE MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Mayor Schmidt called the Workshop to order at 6:00 p.m. in the Edgewater Landing Clubhouse. ROLL CALL Mayor Donald Schmidt Councilman James Brown Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Councilwoman Judith Lichter City Manager Kenneth Hooper City Attorney Scott Cookson city Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Mayor Schmidt thanked everyone involved with Edgewater Landing for allow them to come into the community to do this. INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. MEETING PURPOSE The purpose of the meeting was to discuss issues related to Noise and Special Activities. city Manager Hooper informed everyone that tonight is a work session for the public to address the City Council. city Manager Hooper went through the changes made to the second draft of the Noise Ordinance and Special Activity Ordinance. Councilwoman Lichter feels Penalties needs to be looked at with regard to Noise. She feels Cease and Desist Order probably should come before civil Proceedings and Criminal last. City Manager Hooper explained they aren't in any kind of order. It depends on what occurs. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned the Noise Sensitive Zone. She feels there may end up a conflict. She stated on Guava (Hibiscus) there is a church, a nursery school and light industry. The light industry was there first. Each one of these is going to have to come to them what they are going to include in it when it comes to the noise sensitive zone. They are going to have to think of places like that where industry abuts a church or a school or something else. Councilman Vincenzi stated it was his understanding at the last meeting that there were going to be two alternatives drawn up and there is not. He wants to make it clear he is not happy with this. He thought at the last meeting there were three councilpeople that wanted something similar to this with the one ten day event and two one day events for six months and then there were two councilpeople that wanted to leave the Codes alone as far as the number of events. He feels there are other problems with the noise ordinance regarding the noise levels and decibel levels that he is not happy with. '-' ..""" councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn't remember saying he wanted noise levels that loud. One of the major problems he has is on the residential on Friday and Saturday. Noise levels from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. were 70 decibels and from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. was 60 decibels. Why is that any different than the rest of the week? He remembered recommending decibel levels that were a lot lower. City Manager Hooper stated what they described and what he thought was the general census was the Council wanted a breakdown of weekdays verses weekends. with the range itself, they went through and tried to pick the lowest of any of those ranges. They have a list of ranges of sound and those ranges have been adopted by various cities and counties and we are able to stay within that range, if we come outside of that range by much, they are going to be trying to prove that is an acceptable community standard different than what other cities industrial standards have been adopted. These numbers are very close to what they talked about last time. Whatever the consensus of the Council to pick either ranges on decibels or two events, those are open for discussion. He thinks at this work session or the following work session they will probably wind up doing that. Whatever they do with the Special Activities is probably going to go back through the Land Development Code which takes it back through Planning and Zoning for public input and then back to City Council. Councilwoman Rhodes feels Councilman Vincenzi has a point when he asks why is it different on Friday and Saturday than it is from Sunday to Thursday. Why can you make more noise on Friday than you can on Thursday? This is daytime noise. Night time noise is the same. city Manager Hooper stated that is what he understood they talked of at the last work session. Mayor Schmidt stated he was the one that said maybe they should consider a Friday and Saturday because of the no school, no activities and the normal activities on those two days. City Manager Hooper stated these are numbers that can be changed or lowered. Councilwoman Lichter stated they have all come down except residential. She doesn't know the reasoning but she surmised that people use lawn mowers and people use machines. The noise that emanates from the residential itself might be louder on the weekend. Councilman vincenzi would like that looked at again. He feels 70 decibels is too loud. Mayor Schmidt stated he really wants to get into citizen Comments. He asked the Council if they had anything they wanted to say before they get started. Councilman Brown stated he is going to give his time to the people in the audience to speak because he wants to hear what everybody has to say. Councilman Vincenzi stated if they have problems with the draft ordinances, now is the time to speak. Councilwoman Lichter feels it is an improvement over the first draft. She thinks there are a couple of things that are a little confusing that they will straighten out but they have to work on that after they have the public input. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed there are a couple of things that are minor. She would like to hear what the public has to say. Mayor Schmidt asked the citizens to hold their comments to three minutes. They want to hear as many different ideas and thoughts from as many different people. Page -2- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 '-" """'" Dick Martinez, 317 Schooner Ave, stated Councilman vincenzi was right. There were supposed to be two alternatives that were supposed to be brought to this meeting today. Mr. Martinez read a prepared statement in opposition to outdoor entertainment. (Attached) Mayor Schmidt announced the decor of the meeting. Marilyn Stewart, 734 Bella Vista, Hacienda Del Rio, spoke about the shortfall for all charities. There is going to be a $65,000 shortfall this year for Meals on Wheels. She went to No Name Saloon and within three minutes she met the owner and she opted to do a Charity fundraiser. They can't come to the Council anymore because they don't have it so they have to go to businesses like this that are willing to help the community. She further commented on fundraisers held by the No Name Saloon. Anton Heeb, 616 N. Riverside Drive, read a prepared statement recommending listed changes to the Special Activities and Noise Ordinances written by Ferd Heeb, 115 N. Riverside Drive, who could not be present. (Attached) Anton Heeb, 616 N. Riverside Drive, read a prepared statement suggesting the Council allow two one-day events during a six month period coinciding with Daylight Savings Time and Standard Time. He also suggested that the special activity permit process go through the Planning & Zoning Board and that a fee be levied for very application approved. Ben Vance, address not audible, stated his home is his special noise area. He applauded the bikers and feels they are very generous people. He feels you should do the demographics before you put a business in. This is a small town. He stated 86% of the land is residential, 14% is business and only 1% is bars and restaurants and those areas that need to have a special event. Mr. Vance feels looking at the specifics it is not broken down enough, church events and garage sales. He feels they can make a fortune looking at the Pennysaver and seeing who doesn't have a garage sale permit. He feels they could also find people that use yard sales as a business every week. Mr. Vance feels they have to have a resolution but not with Council. He feels it has to be with the No Name Saloon and the people that go there. They do not want the long neck bottles and garbage allover the road because it lowers property values. By lowering the property values, it lowers the tax base of the community. When you lower the tax base of the community the Council doesn't have much to work with. They have all made an investment in this small, sleepy town. They don't have anything against the bar owners. What they have to do is find a resolution. The people he has spoken to wish to have special events curtailed because they still want a small town. John Gregory, 2134 S. Riverside Drive, has had no problem with any noise from the No Name. The only thing that keeps him awake is the lawn mowers going early in the morning. He spoke about other communities fighting to get people to spend money in their community. These people come here and spend their money. Most of the bars during Bike Week only issue cans so the bottles have to be coming from a store. He spoke of the money raised for charities by the No Name Saloon during fundraisers. He spoke about Bike Week and Biketoberfest being a total of ten-day events. He feels some of what the Council is asking for is reasonable and some of it is not. If Council is worried about keeping people awake, he asked them to do something about the lawn services that start their mowers between 6:30 and 8:00 in the morning. Page -3- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 '-" ....." Robert Pogg, 2925 Yule Tree Drive, feels if the Council doesn't start getting some money in this town in the next couple of years when the Federal government stops giving money out, we aren't going to have it and we are going to be paying for it. He feels the decibels are ridiculous. He feels the Council is going to drag every single penny out of this town. He spoke about organizations he has helped all his life and helping the No Name Saloon and people that fundraisers are held for. He feels what the Council is proposing isn't helping anybody. He feels they are wasting more time on selfishness. He polled the Council on how many of them have been to the No Name Saloon. He urged the Council not to criticize unless they know what they are talking about. If they don't know what they are talking about then say nothing. Kenneth Labarre, 3018 Royal Palm Drive, spoke about the money raised by the No Name Saloon for people that needed it. He feels the noise is not hurting anyone and that the Council is picking on individuals, discriminating against bar owners and discriminating against bikers. The small town jewel of the 70's has been gone for 20 years. You can not make a living in a small town jewel. Nobody can, that is why there is business and progress and people that strive and work to make a town what it needs to be in order to make a living. He feels what the Council is trying to do is take the livelihood out of community values. The Council is trying to stop everything that is supported in this town for the sake of a few people that don't work that don't like to hear a little bit of music. You've got residential noise listed higher than commercial noise. Mr. Labarre questioned if they get a complaint, where is the reading taken from. Mayor Schmidt stated that is part of what they are working on. Mr. Labarre feels the reading needs to be taken at the location of the complaint. Marie King, 1206 Findley street, stated she was a resident of Edgewater for 13 years. The jewel of the City, our town, the jewel of our City, make it better for our residents. She spoke about doing the pledge of allegiance and the last line, with Liberty and Justice for All. She feels there should be liberty and justice for everyone. When they leave the No Name that place is cleaner than when they got there. They pick up cigarette butts. The City doesn't pay for that. She spoke about incidents she has seen during Spring Break and Black College Reunion Week in Daytona Beach that she has never seen during Bike Week. She spoke about nobody coming to Edgewater for spring Break or Speed Weeks unless they can't find a motel room in Daytona. She hopes the Council stops and thinks about what they are doing. Liberty and Justice for All! Bill McDevitt, 610 Portside Lane, stated he thinks the whole thing boils down to one thing. How many taxpayers are you going to disturb because of one business that makes a lot of racket? Mike Visconti, 316 pine Breeze Drive, stated he doesn't think the City is against any bars in the city. He is not picking on the No Name Saloon. It is not only the noise that he objects to because he doesn't hear it. He is a member of the City Beautification Committee and Parks and Recreation Board. They have worked intensely to beautify and have Edgewater a unique city. They have already landscaped the medians along u.S. #1 and they are trying to beautify Edgewater. The loudest thing he can see is the big orange fence along U.S. #1 as well as the billboard. He feels this is louder than the noise. He feels they as the community should be together and that businesses along u.S. #1 should landscape in front of their places of business. By doing this the will make Edgewater a unique and beautiful place for people who like to travel on U.S.#l. Page -4- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 ....,., "wJ1' Mr. visconti stated he hopes the citizens of Edgewater, including the No Name Saloon, who he doesn't think they are picking on. They do raise money for different occasions. He feels they should all keep in mind the city of Edgewater. Doris Hill, 112 Lincoln Road, stated she is opposed to any outside amplified music which impacts residential areas. However, she is in favor of an enforceable noise ordinance. It should not be used as a substitute for a band on outside amplified music. The Council has been grappling over what to do about outside entertainment at business establishments in Edgewater. The current law makes no provisions for outside music that she can find. There have been various interpretations of the city Codes causing much confusion. The Council has asked the City Manager and staff to write up some possible changes for their consideration. She is not happy with what she has seen so far because it would require changes in the existing Codes that she doesn't think they need. She has asked the City Manager why these proposed changes aren't going to the Planning and Zoning Board for their input. He says it isn't necessary but she understands tonight they are saying they are going to send it to them, she hopes. They are talking about letting several businesses blast outside music into neighborhoods throughout the whole City. They are talking about intruding on people's right to peace and quiet and perhaps most important they are talking about affecting the property values of many residential properties throughout this City. The Council is trying to do the right thing. This meeting is to obtain feedback from all affected bodies with respect to outside entertainment. The Planning and Zoning Board has the expertise to advise the Council how any proposed changes affect this City. Please avail yourselves of their input. The Planning and Zoning Board has examined every inch of the Land Development Codes and regulations. Any changes proposed by staff should go to them for review before going to the Council for their acceptance. She has studied this situation long and hard and she thinks the City has been negligent in enforcing the current Codes and Ordinances and is looking for ways and excuses to cover it up by allowing a further deterioration of the Land Development Codes. She hopes Council will not let that happen. Chuck McDonald, 608 Ports ide Lane, feels they need to work together. We need the businesses that are here. He feels they should support them. The decibel levels need to be worked out that is satisfactory to everyone. He has no problem with Biketoberfest and Bike Week. He feels they are quite a great addition to our culture and feels they shouldn't restrict them unnecessarily. Gene Emter, 513 Ports ide Lane, complimented the Council. They need to establish ordinances that apply to everybody, businesses and residents alike. What he sees is a group of people trying to work out a problem and trying to solve a situation where there is a natural conflict and doing their homework. He feels the Council is doing a good job in terms of how they are trying to approach the subject. He spoke about bikers in his family and feels that bikes to him are nothing wrong. He further spoke about outside entertainment and special events. The purposes of gathering together large groups of people and to provide outside activities is there is just one purpose to party and to drink. That has a lot of implications up and down the highway in terms of driving and drinking and noise as well as various kinds of improper behavior, traffic congestion, trash and so on. He thinks the opportunity for all those things that occur go along with the outside activities. Page -5- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 'Iw' ..., Mr. Emter stated as far as Bike Week and Biketoberfest, great that is an area economic event that provides support for all communities up and down the pike. His objection is the extra days. He can not see every bar up and down u.s. #1 alternating their activities to provide a continuum of special events over the course of the year. He applauded the Council for what they are trying to do and wished them luck doing it. Doug Wilson, 930 Fernald street, feels it should be business first. We have an interest in society and taking care of those that are less fortunate. He feels they are talking about a limited inconvenience to a limited amount of people. He spoke about fundraisers that have helped children. Sandy Modovsky, 1920 S. Riverside Drive, stated she is here in support of Ms. Girvan and her establishment. She has been through two Biketobefests and one Bike Week and she has always been amazed that they don't hear more of the music from the No Name Saloon than they do. Ms. Modovsky walks Riverside Drive all the time and once in a while they will see a broken bottle along the way but it is pretty obvious to her that it is not from the No Name Saloon. She doesn't see trash and litter at the No Name like some people have talked about. She feels they keep the establishment very nice. She has always felt comfortable there and has never seen a fight. Bill Greatrex, 2938 Mango Tree Drive, doesn't think the issue is the No Name Saloon. He feels the issue is sound. When they come up with a proper decibel level, he feels it should be taken from the complainant's house. He asked the Council to keep in mind that these functions bring a lot of money into the community. Ray Anderson, 1905 S. Riverside Drive, stated his house is not for sale. A lot of things have been said tonight. He liked the liberty part, justice for all. A lot of things have been said tonight that are not adapted to with individual likes and dislikes. He spoke about there being 38% retired people in Edgewater with most of them not working. They paid their dues, they worked their time and have come to a community that they thought was stable and quiet to a degree. He has never been against Bike Week or Biketoberfest. He would like to see controls on the volume. What he fears is that the daily routine of somehow applying through a conditional use permit or through a special activity permit ends up on almost every weekend. He thinks the draft process is an attempt to approve outside entertainment through a series of applications and permits. These permits at best are a product of the workshop they went through, without public input. He feels it is simply too confusing and complicated. Tanya Schwartz, doesn't live in Edgewater, stated she is listening to something that she doesn't like at all. She was born in America, she is an American and when do they stop. They can't have live entertainment outside. Next time you are going to say no Christmas caroling. Isn't that outside? Is it going to be too loud? The next thing is they won't be able to have a church choir. Maybe they sing really loud inside that chapel. Are they going to cut that out? Are they going to put everyone on bikes because we won't hear mufflers in cars? She further questioned when it stops and when do they stop taking away the rights of people. When will we ever live together unitedly? She spoke about the attack on America in September. She suggested they work together for a solution that is equal to everyone. She further spoke about retirees. She has been a biker all her life. She also sat on a choir when she was a kid. She feels when they start living together as Americans in America maybe they will be okay. Page -6- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 'w' ..."" Dennis Kensel, New Smyrna Beach, stated he is a full-time caregiver for his mother and he is lucky to get out one or two days a week and when he does he rides his Harley. When he goes to No Name or anywhere else that have benefits he gives money and he gives it freely because he knows he is taking care of his mom. He retired at a young age so he could buy a Harley so he could play. The bottles of beer are probably coming out of the fishermen's cars. There was a fifteen minute recess at this time. Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, agreed with Councilman Vincenzi. They have put a lot of work into this. He feels they are picking on the No Name Saloon. It's not the No Name Saloon. It is all businesses. He spoke about Rich's Place, which is across from Edgewater Landing. They should be more concerned with Rich's than the No Name Saloon. He feels that if they enforced the nuisance codes, which they have, they wouldn't be here today going through all of this. He is concerned with cultural events. He further spoke about having a limit on mileage of a one mile radius around a homeowner's association having to be notified. City Manager Hooper wasn't aware what Mr. Capria was talking about. He asked Mr. Capria what section he is talking about. Mr. Capria stated he is talking about Waiver for Cultural Events - section 5 from the first draft. City Manager Hooper informed him that is gone. Elizabeth Hull, Oak Hill bar owner, as she sees this starting to move she sees it moving towards her. She stated they have special events and bring in a lot of revenue. She doesn't think the Council has any idea how much the bar owners pay into BPR on a surcharge for the liquor that goes through their bars. She feels outside entertainment is what holds the revenue and what keeps the people there. They are spending money that comes back to the Council. A special event license should be given to these people because they work hard for what they get. She spoke of the community service done by Ms. Girvan and this revenue is money back to Edgewater. Ten days, that is all it is. The people that are complaining about the color of a sign and the color of a fence can't put up with this for ten days because they reap the benefits of it. She stated complaints are being made about Rich's before he even does anything. Roger Hammond, 2104 S. Riverside Drive, he isn't interested in all of the ordinances. The only thing he is interested in is getting a cap on the noise. They don't have the right to shove their noise down anybody's throat. Sherman Saunders, Edgewater resident, Real Estate agent in Edgewater, stated there have been some really good points made tonight and everybody wants a win-win situation. He spoke about the decibel level being very similar to that of a major road or throughway. Isn't Ridgewood Avenue in front of the No Name Saloon considered a major throughway? He has never had anyone come through his office door that said they want to move to Edgewater because it's non-biker friendly and it has nothing to do with Bike Week. That is what people come to our community for and that is what they establish residents here for in our town and they bring the tax dollars. Thelma Emter, 513 Ports ide Lane, feels the No Name Saloon shows extremely good faith. She could never understand cole slaw wrestling but chocolate pudding makes total sense to her. She thanked the bikers for not complaining about the noise they create here from some of their parties. She commended the Council for going through the process they are going through and for their efforts. She knows this is not easy. Page -7- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 ..... """ Don Rowe, retired, stated he has lived here since August. He is retired military and he noticed there are a lot of bikers retired military. He feels 16 days out of a year is worth putting a cap on everything. Austin Moore, 813 Egret Court, stated he is about a ~ mile from No Name. He is a Veteran of World War II and the Korean War and he fought for some of the privileges we all claim title to. He has nothing against the bikers. His son and son-in-law are bikers. What he objects too very lightly is the noise. He has restricted hearing but if it is too loud for him he wonders what it sounds like to young people. The last two events at No Name, with their windows closed, the doors closed and his restricted hearing, he could hear ever word of most of the songs that were being sung. He hopes the Council would consider noise as being the prime objection of those that live in a circle around No Name have to put up with. He has been told at previous events that the police couldn't do anything because a special activity permit was issued. He spoke to some of the people at City Hall and there were no complaints. However, when he called the Police that afternoon the lady that answered the phone said the phone was ringing off the hook. There is something wrong in city Hall in communications between departments. Diane McGee feels they are opening a can of worms. She feels they are going to have a lot of people complaining about a lot of the businesses. She feels businesses will start moving out. A friend of hers owns the EdgeForward Learning Center. When Biketoberfest happens and the bands are outside they are less than a half a mile away. The kids are outside bands and they are not complaining but when her neighbor has a barbeque and he is not violating any ordinance and the filthy language starts she has to take her four year old grandchild inside the house off the swingset and nobody can do anything about it. She feels noise is in the ear of the beholder. She feels the sound level should be measured from the home of the complainant, not the No Name Saloon. She asked the Council to be careful about what they decide. Mary Hansen, 420 S. Nova Road, Daytona Beach, representing the No Name Saloon, spoke about the enormous strides that have been made in Edgewater in coming together and forming consensus over the last ten years. She isn't here to tell the Council that the No Name Saloon is the target of this workshop and neither does her client. She isn't here to tell them what to do about the noise ordinance. She spoke with her client and she has authorized her to make a suggestion. The Council has not really formed a consensus over what the noise ordinance and special activity ordinance ought to be. There have been very clear lines of opposition. She has not heard that Council has received expert testimony that goes into the noise ordinance. She suggested the Council form a Committee. If they do that they have the opportunity to build consensus. She spoke to City Manager Hooper and he thinks the idea has some merit. She asked Council to consider this. William Geno, 119 Magnolia Ave, stated if it wasn't for the money they have received from the businesses that are established in Edgewater and New Smyrna he couldn't feed all the people he feeds as well as the City and the churches. He spoke about the No Name Saloon doing a Poker Run for them and raising a considerable amount of money for them this year. There is some problems with the noise but for a very short duration of time as a taxpayer in Edgewater he feels it is worth putting up with a little bit of noise for the money they are bringing to the community. When they are setting up an ordinance for special events, he asked the Council to make sure that is taken into consideration. Page -8- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 ........ """" Rich Fromm, Rich's Place, stated people are picking on him and he hasn't done anything yet. He has gotten two complaints already and he hasn't done anything. He feels the Council needs to go to these different places and listen to see what they do and don't like. He stated they are Americans, let's work this problem out. He feels they need to figure out the times. He spoke about it getting dark late in the summer. Let's be fair with us. We are all fair with everybody. Every business in town does something for the community. Let them have their retirement in fifteen years and then they can sit with people and say 'Tanya, I think that is too loud.' He feels they really need to think about this. Mayor Schmidt stated he wanted to try and rap this up. He thanked everyone that came to the meeting. He caught a lot of heat that he wasn't letting people talk at some workshops. He still won't go back on what he did because he thinks they needed that. He proposed at least one more workshop for the Council to look at two new drafts. At that workshop, they aren't going to do any public hearing again. The offer will be made if anybody needs a copy, they can call the City Manager's office to get a copy. Once the Council has the other draft to look at with all the input they have gotten tonight and they have had some good from both sides, he thinks possibly at that point they will be able to formulate their plan on the public hearings for the ordinances and the possibility of forming a committee to get some experts in there. He would like to discuss that more at the workshop. Mayor Schmidt spoke about Roy Schleicher from the Volusia Council of Governments being a good facilitator for this. He also knows Police Chief Ignasiak has had some experience with noise decibel meters and he knows we have recently purchased a decibel meter. They will set up a date in the next couple of days that is good for everybody. It may end up being the first or second week in March due to having another workshop in February. Mayor Schmidt feels the big issues he has gotten out of this are: enforcement, the noise levels, getting a clear understanding of whether you can have outdoor music or not, and the hours. Councilman Brown stated no one is out to get motorcycle riders. They are out to try to formulate rules for noise and make special events all within what perimeters is acceptable to our City. He would like to change the times that they have for the levels. He feels instead of 7 a.m. it should be 8 a.m. Most of the rules and regulations he is in agreement with. Councilman Vincenzi feels the ordinances that are drawn up need to be different. They are not out to get rid of special events. He doesn't think anybody in this room would begrudge anyone from the Bike Week and Biketoberfest but the problem people are seeing and worried about is that this is going to become a monthly event and that is something he thinks they are going to have to make sure doesn't happen. He stated he would turn his recommendations into city Manager Hooper. Councilwoman Lichter stated she is impressed with points on both sides which included a few new enlightening things such as measuring from complainant's house. She feels it is confusing having two different ways to permit it with regard to the 6-month plan and the other way being each individual event. She thinks that part is a little muddy and because it is muddy you almost think they mean monthly that an occurrence could happen monthly. She thinks that needs to be clarified. She thinks they are horning in on the No Name, maybe even now Rich's Place, which has not even happened, but other establishments have asked the City in the past that doesn't do this many days for Bike Week. Page -9- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 ...... 'w' Councilwoman Lichter stated she knows there is a way to work this out. Each side has to give a little bit. She spoke about the zoning on u.S. #1 and enforcement. She again stated they can work this out. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she agrees with Mr. Martinez. feels this town is a jewel. They are very lucky that they come together and work this out and they are going to work out. Not everybody will be happy and. everyone will give a and they will meet somewhere in the middle. She can it little Councilwoman Rhodes expressed concern with charitable work. There is a lot of businesses in this town that do charity work but they don't have noise issues. So charity work can be done without noise. The other thing that concerns her is this is not just a No Name issue. Whatever they do will have to apply to everyone and it can't be specific to one issue. It has to be broad enough to cover all things and allow for some give and take in this community. She feels forming a Committee is an excellent idea and she hopes they consider that. City Attorney Cookson stated as an outside observer he was a little hesitant about getting into this subject tonight. He commended everyone for conducting themselves in a civilized manner. There were good points made on both sides. He spoke about criticism in the past of the city Council and the members for not opening up to the public. He feels that criticism is unfair. Council has gone above and beyond the call of duty on this issue. Generally an ordinance is passed. There is no requirement that they conduct workshops or take the issue to a homeowner's association and conduct a meeting like this. They have gone out of their way to understand the issues and do research. There will be opportunities again to be heard. He thinks the Council and staff have done a tremendous amount of work. Mayor Schmidt stated the next workshop will be held Tuesday, March 12th. They will have two different copies of ordinances with upper and lower ranges to look at. Councilwoman Lichter asked if the workshop could be held at 6:30 p.m. because she has Indian River Task Force. The Council agreed on 6:30 p.m. Mayor Schmidt stated it will be held in the Community Center. Mayor Schmidt stated Ms. Hansen stated that she got the little bit of a felling that she felt just a little bit of dividing lines. Back when this Council first took office one of the things they really tried to push was unity within the City because for so many years they went through things that separated them. He feels they need to find what is going to make as many people possible comfortable with the whole situation. They are trying to create something that is fair for everyone. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, Mayor Schmidt adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -10- Council Workshop February 5, 2002 HISTORY OF SPECIAL EVENT PERMITS July 17, 1989 -July 2000 9 days per event 2 events per month Not required to go to Council but staff not comfortable issuing iF Set ' Land Development Code July 2000 - August 2001 sov 10 days per event 4& 2 events per year 16 Staff approval if meets criteria i• Appeals to City Council for fee waiver � Land Develop ent Code September 10, 2001 - Current 16 10 days per event 41• 2 events per year 16 Staff approval if meets criteria 16 Appeals to City Council for fee waiver � Restaurants Ak 9 10 Ills -a I M -M-06:- Mull] Permitted in the following Zoning Classifications: B2 • • B3 • B-4 BPUD 3 , crR c. - ;;., c /) "- -' ~ ~.-Ferdinand N. Heeb-- - _.. - , ZfD2 rEB -LJ Pr1 (2: SlJ. 115 North Riverside Drive Edgewater, Florida 32132 Telephone (386) 423-0322 Fax (386) 428-7526 February 3, 2002 Honorable Mayor Members of the City Council City Manager City of Edge water, Florida Dear Don: JoAnne and I are driving to Tampa Monday, February 4th to take care of our grandaughter for the week and I will miss your Special Activity and Noise Ordinance workshop on Tuesday. Accordingly, I thought it would be appropriate to send you my thoughts on the draft Ordinances as well as my comments on the whole subject in general. I have asked my brother to read this letter into the record at the workshop meeting Tuesday. As to the draft Ordinances: Special Activities: 1. The special activity master plan goes too far. I would limit it to two (2) one-day special activities during a six month period. 2. The six month special activity cycles should correspond to the Day Light Savings Time and Eastern Standard Time cycles, ie, April 1 to September 30 and October 1 to March 31. 3. Times for outdoor entertainment should be modified to accomodate the difference in cycles as follows: Day Light Savings - Weekdays, one to eight PM; Friday and Saturday one to ten PM; Sunday, one to six PM. Eastern Standard Time - Weekdays, one to six PM; Friday and Saturday one to eight PM; Sunday, one to six PM. 4. Special activity permit process should require the additional step of going through the Planning and Zoning Board for their approval. 5. Each special activity permit request should require a five hundred dollar ($500) application fee. Noise: 1. The description of sound duration sets a standard of continuous as one hour, but does not provide a reasonable interval for when it can start again. For instance, a band could play for fifty minutes, take a fifteen minute break and start again. '-' .""", 2. Under general restrictions provision should also be made to accomodate the differences in DLST and EST. Perhaps you should consider a "Sun up to sun down" criteria for sound level limits. 3. "Specific noises prohibited" does not address the annoyance of the human voice. Please add: 8. The intentional or repeated creation of a noise disturbance by verbal arguing, criticizing or abusive or foul language by a person or persons for a period of ten minutes or intermittently for one half hour or more to the distubance of any person at any time of day or night. These comments address the issues of the proposed ordinances, but to me it is more important that you consider the ramifications of allowing the development of a spirit of special events as a part of Edgewater's persona. Ridgewood (US 1) constitutes the center of our City whether we like it or not. It is and will be our "Down town" area. It is also our only North/South traffic corridor (it is very difficult to drive anywhere in Edgewater with out traveling on Ridgewood). The way we zone this strip of land and the type of development we allow will determine the kind of City we are perceived to be by every visitor, by every prospective business or home-owner or developer (whether industrial or residential). My feelings on this issue and the many people I have talked with convince me that our citizens want to make Ridgewood a first class corridor and I do not think establishments that project a "honky- tonk" atmosphere are what we have in mind. Kill special activities that promote this atmosphere. Limit businesses to two days of special activities per six month cycle and only during daylight hours. Sincerely, c:U Ferd Heeb ,.# , '" i} -:. - :.J <;.-- . ... L I @ ~ ."" My name is Anton Heeb and I reside at 616 North Riverside Drive. My purpose is to stand in my brothers place and read to you his thoughts on the draft ordinances as he could not be here to do so him-self. His name is Ferd Heeb and resides aT 115 North Riverside Drive. I believe all of you have been provided copies of his letter. 11/5 t- ~ -r-r-;r ~ As to the draft ordinances..........and I quote..................... ...UNQUOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the opportunity to read his letter during this workshop. AT THIS TIME My name is Anton Heeb and I reside at 616 North Riverside Drive. I represent myself and present the city council with some of my thoughts on the NOISE ORDINANCE DRAFT and the SPECIAL ACTIVITY DRAFT. Before doing so I would commend the City Manager and his staff for the effort put forth to present to our city council a fair and equitable Ordinance especially because of all the hou our city has had to expend in arriving to this point. While these ordinances are all encompassing for the good of our city as a whole, it must be remembered that one entity, The No Name Saloon caused this action with their Special Activity. And I applaud their entrepreneurial~~ But I wonder how long it will be before other such fIrms follow their example, especially if all their activity takes place during the same event and allowed to continue for days at a time, (even right down the stra:>T form Edgewater Landings). I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions as to the noise C1Id congestion this would cause. We can agree it is every business entities right to exist and t. promote their goods and services, AND goodwill, but not at the expense of our citizens WIlD make-up the City of Edge water. -,' "7 .. '- ..." But the reasons that brought about to-nights meeting are far more reaching than just a workshop to decide a noise and activities resolution. What does the future hold for our Cities Downtown area known as Ridgewood Avenue? Are we interested in developing Ridgewood Avenue as a user-friendly downtown for all of us, both business and residents f1Jy encouraging retail and service entities to add to the growth of "OUR TOWN". Who ofus would enjoy having a business in the same neighborhood that allows days of noise and congestion? Who of us would decide to move next door knowing this situation exists? For these reasons and other reasons, I ask you to allow only two (2) one-day events durin2 each six-month period and that these periods of time be established coinciding wrJ't/ Daylight Saving Time and Standard Time, not by the calendar. In addition I ask that the special activity-permit process go thru the Planning and Zoning Board, and a fee be levied for every application approved. In closing it is my hope the City Council of the City of Edge water would look to the grow711 and development of OUR TOWN for the future as well as for today. We live here. We want our town to be user friendly! Thank you! ~ ~ Councilwoman Lichter stated they are trying to accommodate business and the public. She feels there might be another way to handle the special permit other than a master plan for six months but each activity within it she would still want to come back to them and maybe there might be a three month trial period. City Manager Hooper stated if the first one doesn't go well, Council will tell him to stop the next and it is over. Mayor Schmidt stated that is where enforcement is going to kick in and it is automatically if you have a problem with the first one, Council will see them before the second one happens. Councilwoman Lichter stated the way this is set up now, they don't come back to the Council except after six months. Councilman Brown commented on why he added the additional two one-day events to the one ten-day event. Councilwoman Lichter stated she has not been called or contacted by Rich's Place or the other establishments. One place asked her to come over. When she served on the Planning & Zoning Board, she would tell where she had been which is part of the disclosure process. She spoke about going to the No Name Saloon to look at the facilities. Councilman Vincenzi stated people have mentioned they need to support business but he feels when businesses start encroaching on the residents, then they have to be limited or stopped. You do your best to support business but when the two conflict, you have to prioritize and his priority is to go to the residents. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. If the noise ordinance and the special activity permits are enforced and done as they are supposed to be done, there should never be another noise complaint in this City. City Manager Hooper stated what he thought he heard was Councilman vincenzi described first not to change anything and live by the existing code but if there was a change he was interested in the one ten-day event per year. Councilman Vincenzi stated with some other modifications like the approval process and things like that. City Manager Hooper stated he thought he heard Councilwoman Rhodes also saying one ten-day event for the year. Councilwoman Rhodes stated for six months. Councilman Vincenzi also agreed with one major event in six months. City Manager Hooper stated Councilman Brown suggested one ten-day event and two one-day events per six months. Councilman Brown stated he would go back to one ten-day event in a six month period if that is what everybody wants. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested leaving it the way it is as far as special events go, which allows two ten-day special events per year. Councilman Brown stated he would vote yes for that. City Manager Hooper stated Councilwoman Lichter and Mayor Schmidt both suggested one ten-day event and two one-day events. City Manager Hooper stated when he drafts this next round, he is going to draft it and the public will come in and speak to Council. There will be two choices on some of these things. City Manager Hooper stated they are going to talk about the hours and what he thinks he heard was weekdays from 1 p.m. to 8 p.m., Friday & Saturday from 1 p.m. to 10 p.m. and Sunday 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. City Manager Hooper stated with regard to the Master Plan, he would like to draft the language around a Master Plan and then draft a separate language around it having stand alone separate events. Page -12- Council Workshop January 8, 2002 '-" ..."", Councilwoman Lichter stated right now you have both, to either come in and apply for a Master Plan or they can come on each separate event. Her problem with the Master Plan is the Council doesn't get it in between. City Manager Hooper stated you will never get rid of the special activity by itself because the Code already allows it. Councilman Vincenzi asked what is wrong with having special activities with banning outside entertainment. City Manager Hooper stated there is nothing wrong with that. They can do that. Councilman Vincenzi asked him to draft a third one for that. City Manager Hooper stated if there is consensus to tell him to include it. Councilman Vincenzi stated he can look at it and see what he thinks about it. It was the consensus of Council to draft something for special activities with no outside entertainment. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was asked tonight if Harley's are going to be allowed at Edgewater Landing. She feels they will probably get a lot of input on that one way or another. Mr. Capria stated except for houses on private property. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that is a parking lot isn't it. Mr. Capria stated yes it is. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then maybe they shouldn't be holding the meeting there. Mr. Capria said right on. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have to allow all public access. Councilwoman Lichter asked if anyone wanted to limit the number of hours that music is allowed in twenty-four hours. Councilman Brown feels under Penalties, instead of a fine of three times the cost it should be five times the cost to make people seriously think about this. Councilman Vincenzi stated he didn't have a problem with limiting the number of hours in a twenty-four hour period but he thinks they are going to have a problem with measuring it. City Manager Hooper informed Council staff has a pretty good understanding of what has been discussed. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is interested to hear what both sides have to say about it. City Manager Hooper informed the public that anyone that wants a draft to let City Clerk Wadsworth know their name and address. Councilwoman Rhodes feels they need specific input on the drafts themselves from the public. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Schmidt adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -13- Council Workshop January 8, 2002 1 :FHE CITY OF ED"GEWATER POST OFFICE BOX 100-EDGEWATER, FLORIDA 32132-0100 Noise Ordinance - first draft Definitions Decibel - a unit in which the levels of various acoustical quantities are expressed Emergency work - any work performed for the purpose of preventing or alleviating the physical trauma or property damage threatened or caused by an emergency Person - any individual, association, partnership or corporation, and includes any officer, employee, department, agency or instrumentality of the United States, State of Florida or any political subdivision thereof Sound level meter - an instrument used to measure sound pressure levels when properly calibrated and is of Type 2 or better as specified by ANSI standards Cultural event - any event drawing a large attendance for entertainment, amusement, enlightenment or recreation purposes, which in the determination of the City Council, has or is likely to become a community event integrated into accepted social practices or traditions Emergency - any occurrence or set of circumstances involving actual or immanent physical trauma or property damage which demands immediate action Noise - any excessive sound which annoys or disturbs humans or causes or tends to cause an adverse psychological or physiological effect on humans Noise nuisance - sound which is or may be harmful or injurious to the health or welfare of any person; or unreasonably interferes with the enjoyment of life, property or outdoor recreation of a reasonable person with normal sensitivities; or is of such character and level as to be detectable by a considerable number of persons so as to interfere with their health, repose, or safety or to cause severe annoyance or discomfort Real property line - an imaginary line along the ground surface, and its vertical plane extension, which separates the real property owned, rented or leased by one person from that owned, rented or leased by another person, excluding intrabuilding real property divisions Sound - an oscillation in pressure, stress, particle displacement, particle velocity or other physical parameter, in a medium with internal forces. The description of sound may include any characteristic of such sound, including duration, intensity and frequency. \. ~ ..."" Sound level - the weighted sound pressure level obtained by the use of a metering characteristic and weighting scale as specified by ANSI standards, if the weighting employed is not indicated, the A-weighting shall apply Ambient noise - all encompassing noise associated with a given environment, being usually a composite of sounds from many sources Plainly audible - any sound that can be clearly heard by unimpaired auditory senses based on a direct line of sight of 50 feet or more, however words or phrases need not be discernable and said sound shall include bass reverberation Section One - Policy It shall be unlawful, except as expressly permitted herein, to cause a noise nuisance or to make, cause or allow the making of any noise or sound which exceeds the sound level limits (dBA) set forth in this article. Noise emanating from the subject property after the owner has or should have knowledge of the noise nuisance condition shall be deemed to continue with the permission of the property owner. Section Two - General restrictions 1. No person shall operate or cause to be operated any source of sound from any subject parcel in such a manner as to create a noise nuisance or sound level which exceeds the limits set forth for the use occupancy in Table 1, when measured at or beyond the property boundary of the subject property from which the sound emanates. 2. Sound or noise emanating from one use occupancy category into another use occupancy category with a different noise level limit shall not exceed the limits of the use occupancy category into which the noise is projected. Table One Use occupancy cateeory Time Sound level limit (dBA) Residential 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Range 60-70 10:00 PM -7:00 AM Range 50-60 Commerciallbusiness 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Range 65-75 10:00 PM - 7:00 AM Range 55-65 Manufacturing/industrial All times 75 Noise sensitive zone All times 55 1. '-' ....,. Section Three - Specific noises prohibited In addition to the maximum permissible sound level limits set out in Table 1, and unless otherwise exempted by this article or by act of the City, the following specific acts, or the causing or permitting thereof, are hereby declared to be in violation of this article: 1. Horns, signaling devices, and other similar devices - the sounding of any horn or signaling device on any automobile or other vehicle, except as a danger warning; the sounding of any signaling device for any unnecessary or unreasonable period of time; and the unreasonable use of any signaling device. Noises of safety signals, warning devices, emergency pressure relief valves and bells and chimes of churches are exempt as are train horns, in approach of a crossing or as notification of an emergency situation as well as noises resulting from any authorized emergency vehicle when responding to an emergency call or acting in time of emergency. 2. Loudspeakers, public address systems - Using or operation for any purpose any loudspeaker, public address system or similar device such that the sound there from creates a noise disturbance within a noise sensitive zone or any other use occupancy in accordance with Table 1. 3. The intentional or repeated creation of a noise disturbance through the acceleration, turning or stopping of any motor vehicle. 4. Animals - Owning, possessing or harboring any animal or bird which, frequently or for continued duration, howls, barks, meows, squawks or makes other sounds which create excessive and unnecessary noise across a residential or commercial real property line or within a noise sensitive zone. For the purposes of this ordinance, "barking dog" is defined as a dog that barks, bays, cries or howls or makes any other noise continuously and/or incessantly for a period of ten (10) minutes or barks intermittently for one half hour or more to the disturbance of any person at any time of day or night, provided, however, that a dog shall not be deemed a "barking dog" for the purposes of this ordinance if, at any time the dog is barking or making other noise, a person is trespassing or threatening to trespass upon private property in or upon which the dog is situated or any other legitimate causes for which the dog is provoked. 5. Loading and unloading - Loading and unloading, opening, closing or other handling of boxes, crates, containers, equipment, building materials, garbage cans, dumpsters or similar objects between the hours of 7:00 PM and 7:00 AM on weekdays and 7:00 PM and 8:00 AM on weekends or holidays within 150 feet of a residential property line or noise sensitive zone. 6. Construction or demolition - Operating or causing the operation of any tools used in construction, drilling, repair, alteration, or demolition work between the hours of 7:00 PM and 7:00 AM on weekdays, or between 6:00 PM and 10:00 AM on weekends or holidays in or within 150 feet if any residential or noise sensitive zone, except for emergency work by public service utilities or by special permit approved by the City. This section shall not apply to the use of domestic power tools. 7. Domestic power tools - Operating or permitting the operation of any mechanically powered saw, drill, grinder, lawn or garden tools or similar tool between 10:00 PM and 7:00 AM on weekdays, or 10:00 PM and 8:00 AM on weekends and holidays, unless said equipment is operated inside of a building or other structure so that the sound therefrom does not travel across any residential real property line or noise sensitive zone. All such equipment shall be properly muffled and maintained in working order so as not to create excessive or unnecessary noise. ~. '--' "'-" Section Four - Classification of use occupancy For purposes of defining use occupancy the City's Land Development Code shall describe residential, multi- family, industrial and commercial designations. All property containing permanent sleeping quarters, other than sleeping quarters in public lodging establishments, shall be considered residential use. All public-lodging facilities, as defined by Florida Statute 509.013 (4) shall be considered commercial use. All premises containing businesses where sales, professional or other commercial activities are conducted shall be considered commercial use. All premises where manufacturing is legally permitted shall be considered manufacturing use. In case of multiple uses, the more restrictive use category shall prevail. Hospitals, nursing homes, schools, libraries and churches shall be considered residential uses. Section Five - Measurement standards The following standards shall be used in the measurement of sound level limits of noise: 1. The measurement of sound or noise shall be made with a decibel or sound level meter operating on the A-weighting scale of any standard design and quality meeting the standards prescribed by the American National Standards Institute for a sound level meter. The instrument shall be maintained in good working order and calibrated prior to each use. Measurements recorded shall be taken so as to provide a proper representation of the noise source. The microphone used during measurement shall be positioned so as not to create any unnatural enhancement or diminution of the measured noise. A windscreen for the microphone shall be used when required. 2. The slow meter response of the sound level meter shall be used in order to best determine that the average sound has not exceeded the standards set forth in Table 1. 3. The measurement shall be made at the property line on which such noise is generated, or perceived, as appropriate, five feet above the ground. 4. In the case of an elevated or directional sound or noise source, compliance with the noise limits is to be maintained at any elevation at the boundary. Waivers for cultural events The sponsors of a cultural event, which will occur infrequently and which reasonably may not meet the noise standards and regulations provided above, may submit a request for waiver to the City Council, along with proposed precautions and conditions. The sponsors shall also provide 15 days written notice to each registered Homeowner's Association within one mile of the proposed event, including a description of the event and proposed conditions, the name and telephone number of a contact for more information, and the date and time when the matter will be considered by the City Council. City staff shall review the proposal and comment on the reasonable expectations of compliance or non-compliance with the provisions of this ordinance and the likely impacts to the surrounding community. The proposal, along with staff's comments, shall be reviewed by the City Council at an advertised public hearing. Any waiver granted will specify which provisions of the ordinance are waived, the times they are waived, and any additional conditions which apply. ~.