11-12-1980
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CITY OF EDGEWATER .
BOARD OF ADJUSEMENTS
SPECIAL HEARING
November 12,1980
Chairman Louise Martin called the Public Hearing to order at
7: 00 P.M. in the Edgewater C'ity Hall.
ROLL CALL
Mrs. Martin
Mrs. Kane
.M r. S loa n
Mr. Lupinek
Mrs. Walker
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Mrs. Martin explained that the purpose of this Public Hearing
is for considering the appeal filed by Burke D. Chester, Attorney
on behalf of James H. Cameron, against the Building Official's
actions on Permit #2844 for a setback violation on property at
1505 South Riverside Drive, Edgewater. She asked Mr. Murphy
to make a statement to open the discussion.
Mr. Murphy explained that when the complaint came to him about
Mr. Cameron's addition encroaching on someone else's property,
he asked Mr. Cameron to show proof of ownership within seven
days or tear it down. He has never brought in a surveyor such
proof, but chose to appeal to this board. Mr. Murphy went on to
say that he saw a sketch of the proposed addition before issuing
a building permit, however his entire file has disappeared,
therefore he 'has nothing to show the board. He spoke with
Mr. Cory and was told that a survey was finished, however he
could not release it, the attorney would have to do that. He
feels that the City should obtain that survey.
Mr. Burke Chester, Attorney for Mr. Cameron, stated that there
is no survey of Mr. Cameron's property, as such, according to
his information. Mr. Cory was asked to survey Mrs. Dennen's
property (the lady wo made the complaint). He explained in
detail, that Mrs. Dennen has an ambiguous deed that is susceptible
to three interpretations, however none of these interpretations
make her an adjoining land owner to Mr. Cameron. Under one of the
interpretations, she would be permitted to apply to the State for
a riparian rights deed and then she would be the owner.
Mr. Gillespie (also Attorney for Mr. Cameron) told Mr. Chester
that he contacted Mrs. Dennen and offered to go to the expense
of doing this for her,if she would be willing to sell Mr. Cameron
the land that he is encroaching upon, if this is the case.
Mrs. Dennen has not yet responded. He explained that they are
waiting to find out what she plans to do. If she does not want
to go to the State, then we will contact them and try to settle
this matter.
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Mr. Murphy asked why they don't.. have a survey of Mr. Cameron's
prope~ty, as. he asked for. .
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Mr. Chester stated that their position is that the lady came
in and complained that .we are on her property, we have gone
to the expense of finding out where her property line is. No
one seems to know this, which is the problem. Anyone wanting
to take enforcement procedures against us, saying that we are
encroaching, they can go to the expense of surveying the property
to prove this. He read a letter from Mr. Cory, where he states
that the Cameron property is not contiguous or adjacent to the
Dennen property, as described in the deed books, if the property
as described, is measured along the river, or along the U.S.
Government meander line. To verify this fact, a complete title
search of the land in question could be done along with a boundary
survey. Summing this up, Mr. Chester stated that what has been
discovered is that Mrs. Dennen does not own that property, and
if Mr. Cameron is encroaching, it is not on her property.
There were-more questions as to why there is not a survey available.
.City Attorney Woods stated that he spoke with Mr. Dennen and a
copy of a Survey done years ago is going to be sent to him,
however he has not received it yet. He added that he had con-
versation with Mr. Cory, and was told exactly what Mr. Chester
has stated here. There is an ambiguity in the Dennen deed which
creates a strip of land between the Cameron property and the
Dennen property. The Title of this property is unknown. He
knows Mr. Cory has this layout, and it would be helpful to the
board, but he assumes that the only way Mr. Cory could release
this information would be through Mr. Gillespie or Mr. Chester.
Mr. Chester went over the thre~ different interpretations again,
and the conversation that they had with Mrs. Dennen. He explained
that they need time to settle this.
Mrs. Kane asked Mr. Murphy if someone can come in to get a building
permit and build anywhere without showing proof that they own the
land?
Mr. Murphy explained that a builder doesn't need a survey, if it
is an owner and he is putting up a brand new house we require the
survey plus the deed. In this case, Mr. Cameron owned the property
and was putting an addition on it. We don't require a man to go
to the expense of hiring a surveyor to show what he has, as is.
Mrs. Kane asked if when a complaint or discrepancy is pointed out
why can't the person who is believed to have made the encroach-
ment be responsible to submit a survey.
Mr. Murphy stated that when the complaint was brought to his
attention, he asked for the survey of Mr. Cameron1s property,
not the Dennen's property.
There was discussion again on the position held by Mr. Cameron
and his attorney.
Mr. Chester explained again, the survey was done on her property
because she was the one who complained that her property was en-
croached upon. He added that he understands that there are many
cases such as this in the City of Edgewater, and it doesn't solve
anything to just tell someone to tear down their building. They
are willing to solve--this problem with the other property owners,
if they are ju~t given time to do so. He added that this could
work out to the Dennen's best interests, because we could go to
all of the expense with the State and get Mrs. Dennen the riparian
rights deed and then p~y~her for property that she never purchased.
Attorney Woods stated that he wishes we had Mr. Cory present su
that he could show the layout of the property in question.
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Mr. Chester stated that he was told that we do not have a survey
of our property.
Mrs. Martin stated that if we had a survey this could be decided
rather than waiting six months or so.
Mr. Chester stated that a surveyor does not determine who has
the property rights, if you have ambiguous deeds, then a court
has to determine this. Given the time, this will be cleared
up and settled one way or the other, all we need is time.
Mr. Sloan asked Mr. Cameron if he knew he was building over his
property line, or if he knew he was coming within ten.. feet of
his line?
Mr. Cameron spoke to the board, explaining that when he bought
the property, he was shown the stakes presenting the north and
south property lines. He has always assumed that these are the
property lines and he ~oes not have a survey. When he went to
add the addition to his house, he measured from the corner markers
and the swell which he was told was ~n his property, because the
lady who previously owned the land had to give the County permis-
sion to dig that swell. He brought this drawing into Mr. Murphy
prior to getting the building permit. Shortly after this room
was constructed, Mrs. Pat Lamae brought this all to his attention,
she asked him if he purchased any 'land from the State. She ex-
plained that she use to live in the house and unless he purchased
more land she thought his addition is built on State owned property.
This was the first he became aware of this. He has spoken with
Dan Cory about this, and it will become a complicated matter to
determine.where the property lines are exactly and it will cost'
in excess of $2,000.00. He added that he is willing to correct
the situation and work with the Dennen's sharing the costs. If
the State owns this or if Mrs. Dennen owns the pro~erty, he will
negotiate with them.
Mr. Sloan stated that if Mr. Cory was able to survey Mrs. Dennen's
lot, then he should be able to go right next door and survey the
rest of it.
Mr. Cameron explained that herl:deed is not clear, he can not tell
how many feet there are between her line and his.
Mr. Lupinek suggested that they measure from his north property
line and go south, to determine his property line. It doesn't
. matter who owns the other land, the question is whether Mr.
Cameron has encroached on anybody. After this is determined
you can work out the problem.
Mr. Chester explained that Mr. Cory is a professional, and that
is what he tells us. He told us in order to get a correct sur-
vey it would cost about $2,000.00. We are just not willing to
pay that much. He reiterated the situation; some person goes
to the Building Official without any bases whatsoever, says that
we are encroaching on their land, the Building Official tells us
to tear down'our building within seven days or prove at our great
expense that what that person says is not true. Our position is
that we have already gone to great expense proving that the lady
who complained does not own that property, we don't feel we should
go to other ex~ense disproving what someone has said without any
foundation at all.
Attorney Woods stated that .from what he has fourld out by talking
with Mr. Cory, Mrs. Dennen does not own that property, so what
the board has to decide is it Qf utmost urgency that he tear down
his property or will you allow him time to negotiate with the
State, who apparentlY. owns that property. He added that he would
like to see Mr. Cory present his findings to the board before a
decision is made.
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Mr. Chester stated agai.n that the person who wants the affir-
mative relief is the person who should do the proving. At the
present time we are waiting on an answer from the lady who com-
plained, and then it will be a matter of time to be able to
negotiate with the State, this will probably be at least a six
month period.
Pat Lamae asked to speak. She explained that when she went
and talked to Mr. Cameron about this, she told him that when
her father built on that property, he built five feet from the
property line and there had been no purchase of land from the
time her father owned the land and sold it to the Herds. She
asked Mr. Cameron how he could meet the setback requirements
of ten feet with the new room. Disregarding what Mrs. Dennen
claims or does not claim, what about the ten foot s~tback?
Mr. Ohester explained that when it is determi!ned who the owner
.is, perhaps we can purchase enough land to meet these setbacks.
Mrs. Kane explained that the City Code must be met. If you want
to build something, you must present us a survey to show that
you are meeting all of the setback requirements. B~fore he
built the addition he should have shown that these requirements
were going to be met or he. should not have been given a building
perm it.
Attorney Woods stated that at this time the decision is up to
the board, he would like to see Mr. Cory present the survey
that he has.on all of this property. He asked if there were
any objections from Mr. Cameron on his attorneys.
Mr. Chester stated that he has no objection to Mr. Cory appearing
before the board, Mr. Cameron also stated that he has no objection.
Mrs. Martin stated that we will get a letter to Mr. Cory inviting
him to our next meeting, November 26th to see if he can shed some
light on this situation. This has gone on six months already and
she doesn't feel that it should ~ontinue another six months~
The meeting was recessed until November 26th.
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