05-18-2000 ir0
CITIZEN CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 18, 2000
5130 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Fowler called the Regular Meeting to order at 5:33 p.m.
in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Members present were: Chairman Tony Fowler, Linda Johnson, Ben
DelNigro, George Ann Keller, and Susan Hammond. Also present
were Attorney Sidney Nowell, Code Enforcement Officer Beverly
Kinney-Johnson, Lieutenant Bill Britain and Deputy City Clerk
Lisa Bloomer.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of April 20. 2000
Ms. Hammond made a motion to accept the April 20, 2000 minutes,
second by Ms. Johnson. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
SWEARING IN og WITNESSES
Deputy City Clerk Bloomer swore in Ms. Kinney-Johnson.
CASES IN COMPLIANCE
Ms. Kinney-Johnson listed the following case in compliance:
#2000-CE-0030 - James Gilligan - 514 Sea Hawk Court
Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated she went by the location at 11:07 a.m.
and there were no violations.
NEW BUSINESS
There was no new business to discuss.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
By-laws - Attorney Sidney Nowell's review and input for final
draft
Attorney Nowell stated he reviewed the proposed edits to the by-
laws. None of the proposed edits or prior language pose any
legal problems. He thinks at some point, maybe it was
unofficially, he asked whether or not the Board would consider
adding a time frame for the public to make comments. This is not
currently in the by-laws. This would be Section G - Conducting
of Meetings. The order of business at regular meetings shall be
as follows and there is a delineated process that does not at
this time seem to have a section that allows the public to
comment. Typically boards at the end of their meetings will
reserve some time, usually limiting the public comment to three
minutes per individual where they can comment on anything that
took place during that meeting or outside of that meeting. He is
suggesting the board might want to consider this.
Chairman Fowler asked where he would suggested to slide it in
there. Attorney Nowell stated just before adjournment.
Ms. Kinney-Johnson asked the Board if they wanted a time limit on
how long they are allowed to speak. Keller stated Council
usually allows five minutes. Attorney Nowell suggested three
minutes. Chairman Fowler asked if that is a situation they need
to have in the by-laws. Nowell no, he wouldn't put the time in.
As the chairperson, Chairman Fowler could make that announcement
when they get to that point in the meeting.
Ms. Keller asked about Article V, Section H regarding the agenda.
Are we going to leave it as an agenda being prepared ten days
prior to meeting. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated it would probably be
prepared before that so they can have time to post properties and
they also have to be able to get it to press. Ms. Keller stated
in the minutes of April 20, 2000 and the City Manager stated that
the board can select how many days they wish to have it. She
wondered if they need to go over this and say how many days and
put it in writing. She stated City Manager Hooper said the Board
would select that. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated the sooner the
cutoff date, that will lower the amount of cases that may come
before the Board for that particular meeting. Chairman Fowler
suggested wording it to be prepared by the Board Coordinator no
less than ten days prior. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated okay.
Chairman Fowler stated that way you have ample time. If it is
done earlier, fine. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated they have to have
it done earlier because the press has to have it in the paper ten
days prior.
Ms. Keller stated in the bylaws, under the names of Board, Susan
Hammond's name needs to be added before this is signed off. Ms.
Kinney-Johnson asked Ms. Hammond who she replaced. Chairman
Fowler stated she replaced Dennis Vincenzi. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
agreed to add her name.
There were no further comments regarding the bylaws.
Chairman Fowler asked for a motion to accept the bylaws as
changed. Ms. Keller made a motion to accept the bylaws with the
corrections as stated tonight, second by Johnson. The motion
CARRIED- IED 5-0.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
Lt. Britain asked Attorney Nowell if he wants them sent to him
prior to the next meeting for his review. Attorney Nowell said
yes, to send him a copy. Ms. Kinney-Johnson agreed to fax them.
proposed Land Development Code
Chairman Fowler asked if Council has had a workshop regarding
some of the issues they have brought up. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
stated Council only got through the big issues such as boats,
rv's, trailers, tents, parking on right-of-way and swales. Ms.
Plaskett went through Article I through Article III. There were
some changes suggested by the Planning & Zoning Board. They
wanted to add a section for restaurants, and indoor takeout and
drive thru. They also want three lanes in commercial parking
areas so that if the fire lane is blocked there will still be two
access lanes for ingress and egress with traffic. There needs to
be additional work to define abandoned vehicles. As far as
nuisance goes, the Planning & Zoning Board wants odor included.
For a garage, to change business purpose to commercial business
purpose. For litter they want to add tv's, computers etc. , which
she already includes that They want the home occupational
definitions to be reworked and Ms. Plaskett had said as far as
home occupational licensing she did not want to see any
advertising in phone books or newspapers. She doesn't believe
that is something we really have control over. If they put it in
the phone book it is there for a year. Attorney Nowell asked if
that is something this Board would have to enforce. Ms. Kinney-
Johnson stated yes, they would have to enforce if it passed. We
would have to cover any zoning violations and code violations
that we normally handle now. Ms. Johnson stated could you
imagine the fines they could rack up telling someone to get their
add out of the yellow pages. Lt. Britain stated like most cities
there are laws on the books that have good meaning but are never
enforced. Ms. Johnson stated that is almost like a catch all.
Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated when they see the ads in Pennysaver
that helps them to find some of the home occupations that aren't
licensed. Ms. Johnson asked if they are going to venture out
into the Internet. If they are going to do the phone book, let's
keep on going. That is a little much. Lt. Britain stated we
have a lot more problems out there than that. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
stated City Manager Hooper as well as Councilwoman Rhodes stated
there could be compromise if the City could do research on damage
caused by temporary carports. She feels as the code stands as
written, her kids can't even put up a pup-tent to have a sleep I
over. So there needs to be compromise and common ground, things
everyone can live with.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
Chairman Fowler asked if they will see some rewriting of some of
these prior to them being voted on by Council. Ms. Kinney-
Johnson stated she didn't know. Lt. Britain stated they would
have to before it goes to public hearing. There is going to have
to be a revised document. He would have to say yes the City will
have to produce a new document. Ms. Johnson asked if they would
get copies of it Lt. Britain stated he couldn't answer that,
hopefully. Chairman Fowler stated he is sure all they have to do
is request it He is asking the question because they have
primarily spent two or three hours, two weeks ago discussing
numerous items. Ms. Johnson had some suggestions that were
included in his packet. Theoretically, they have done what they
can at this point. Now they have to see where Council will go
with this and see it rewritten more towards what they have
suggested and more towards what they feel comfortable with and
then they can argue again. He asked if he was correct in where
this was going. Attorney Nowell stated he is unclear as to how
their thoughts are actually going to be communicated to the
Council. He doesn't know who is delivering their thoughts. He
has thought about it since the workshop whether or not they can
and should have input in the process. He is coming down on that
yes, as a Board, they have the authority to have input. His
concern about what happened at the workshop is that they were
passing judgment on the validity of some of the proposals and at
some point in the future those very same provisions may come back
in front of us. He feels they need to get clarified from the
Council when and how they wish to receive the Board's input on
the proposed changes to the Code. What happened at the workshop
he is suspecting their input is not getting to the Council. We
spent x-number of hours here and a lot of valuable information
was talked about but he isn't quite certain it ever went anywhere
besides out of this room. Lt. Britain stated he sat in on the
next department head meeting and Mr. Hooper asked Lynne what
happened. He believes most of comments are going through Mr.
Hooper. It is not the Board's job to make specific
recommendations. The Board is on the judicial end, not the
legislative end. Ms. Plaskett relayed a lot of the information
the information to Mr.- Hooper. He will probably end up doing the
compiling of all the complaints and data. He thinks a lot of
that is going through the City Manager's office. He is usually
the person that does the final and gets it all together.
Attorney Nowell stated they are not the legislative arm when it
comes to this process but they are the judicial arm. He thinks
their input, especially on the ry issue, would be invaluable to
the legislative branch because they are going to be the one's
that have to enforce it.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
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Ms. Keller asked if they know if the Board's minutes go to
Council. The Council should have a lot of information at hand of
what is going on and what their discussions have been Lt.
Britain stated the problem they are going to run into is there
was no specific request. Everyone had ideas. That is as far as
it will go with from this Board. There is no consensus of the
Board per say, it is just suggestions. He believes that is all
Attorney Nowell asked them to do. If they really want to get
into the meat of it, they really need to go to City Council
meetings and public hearings. At the last Council workshop, the
public was not invited to speak and they will not be able to
until the final draft comes out at the public hearings.
Hopefully they will be able to see it prior to that occasion.
Chairman Fowler stated as long as Attorney Nowell has the
opportunity to review some of these things, from the standpoint
of their ability to enforce what is ending up being voted on and
then he can from a legal standpoint make said recommendations.
He feels the Council's attorney will be the same way and will
also look at it from a legal standpoint. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
stated previously they have given the Board drafts that have come
straight through Code Enforcement. Jon, herself and Dennis wrote
drafts for the Board. She suggested the Board might want to go
back over some of the later drafts and compare those to what is
in the current code to see what they agree with and don't agree
with, what has been taken out that maybe should be staying in,
just to refresh the Board's memory on what was started and how it
ended up.
Ms. Keller stated the City Manager has a copy of what they wrote
down and he has a copy of their minutes. Chairman Fowler stated
he has a feeling his ears have burned enough between Lynne who
was not a happy camper last time and the public will let him
know. It is going to be an interesting situation. Ms. Keller
asked if they as private citizens, at an open Council meeting, if
they come up with whatever the changes are that come out in
public, can they say they would like to see something changed.
Attorney Nowell stated as a private citizen you always have the
right to present express yourself at a public forum and express
your personal opinions. The questions are very fine lined in
terms of when you are doing that, who you are. You will have to
make it perfectly clear that whatever you are saying is in the
context of being a private citizen.
Ms. Kinney Johnson explained the list of complaints that she
provided to the Board. Chairman Fowler asked if she could draw a
ledger listing what the Action codes mean. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
briefly explained the codes. She agreed to provide the Board
with list. Lt. Britain stated they are looking into next year's
budget about a new code enforcement program. They will be
putting in for the program in next year's budget.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
DISCUSSION TENS
Review applications for two current vacancies on the Board
Chairman Fowler stated they still have two seats on the Board
that are empty. It appears they have three applicants at this
time Ms. Hammond asked if she is wrong in assuming Elizabeth
Donahue had an application in once before. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
stated the only one new is Dr. McGuire. Ms. Hammond stated she
was scheduled for an interview at same time as she was Ms.
Kinney-Johnson stated Ms. Cucanich was also interviewed
previously.
Mr. DelNigro informed the Board that Ms. Donahue used to live
across the street from him. He remembers Chairman Fowler saying
they didn't want Ms. Cucanich on the Board because she had a
friend on the Board also. Chairman Fowler stated only because of
the possibility of discussions.. This is just his personal
feeling. There is nothing in the bylaws that says because she
lives across the street from him that she can't. Ms. Johnson
expressed concern regarding particular districts being
represented by the Board which is minor compared to the
suggestion in the Statutes that they have a group of or at least
some input from professions in perhaps engineering or
architecture to give a little more technical guidance when they
need it. Frank was wonderful when they got into construction
zoning violations where he could give some input from his own
expertise. She would like to see someone on the Board with that
kind of expertise to help them along when they start getting into
those areas. Chairman Fowler stated the problem is they don't
have one in front of them. Ms. Keller stated they had a couple
of names back in February. There were a couple of gentlemen that
they received their applications but she doesn't know if they got
put on other boards. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated Mr. Burbaugh was
one of those people and he had already been predetermined to go
the Economic Development Board. Ms. Keller stated there was also
a Mr. Cope. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated he was given an invitation
to appear and he never showed up. The only two that responded
were ms. Hammond and Ms. Cucanich. She stated they could hold
this for a while and see if they get more applications in
Chairman Fowler feels they need to do some major recruiting.
Considering some of the history that goes on with the information
here and so on, he doesn't feel real comfortable. Ms. Keller
agreed. Chairman Fowler suggested putting Lt. Britain on the
street and find a couple of good ones. Lt. Britain stated Susie
Wadsworth puts an article in every newsletter that goes out and
she is doing everything she can. They are being requested all
the time because many boards are slighted. It is hard to find
people to volunteer. Time is precious to a lot of people. Ms.
Kinney-Johnson stated she thinks she has even advertised in the
newspaper.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
Lt. Britain stated he doesn't know what more City can do.
Chairman Fowler stated do we want to, if nothing else, possibly
throw one name at Council at this point in time? He suggested
possibly filling one spot and continue to recruit. Ms. Keller
stated in that case she would suggest Mr. McGuire, who is
retired. He is not serving on any board at the present time. He
has been on committees before in his professional life. He might
be good one. The other person they interviewed, Delores, she
seemed to be kind of upsetting to hear and she was going into a
lot of detail about not be able to work with Councils and that
kind of gave her a little negative about listening to her going
on about things. Even though she may have been on the Code Board
before, in the present way of her feelings, it might be negative
for being on the board. Chairman Fowler asked Ms. Keller if she
was going to put that in the form of a motion? Ms. Keller made a
motion to recommend Mr. Bobby McGuire to be considered as a
choice for the Code Enforcement Board member, second by DelNigro.
The motion CARRIED 5-0.
Ms. Hammond asked about his age. Ms. Keller stated that isn't
supposed to be a consideration, if it is a volunteer job. The
age limit shouldn't really be a consideration. He is, after all,
offering to become member of Board. In a job where you are paid
you aren't supposed to be discriminated against for age. Ms.
Hammond stated she wasn't thinking about that, she was thinking
more health wise. Chairman Fowler stated that is not a necessary
issue. Ms. Keller stated she doesn't think he would have even
bothered to fill out form if he had some concerns about that.
She stated she didn't know if they would want to ask him to come
to next meeting and be interviewed. Attorney Nowell informed the
Board they have to be very careful. Some of the information they
may be curious about but it may not be appropriate to ask about
age, health, disabilities unless they can show there is an
absolute connection between those connections and the job they do
here.
Chairman Fowler stated there is a motion and second on floor to
recommend Dr. McGuire to Council. If the Board things they
should bring him in for an interview they could wait another
month. The motion CARRIED 5-0.
CODE ENFORCEMENT COMMENTS
Lt. Britain stated he hopes to hire a second position next week.
They are waiting for a couple things to be approved at the
Council meeting Monday night. By the next meeting, he hopes to
have the person here. Within the next 60 days, the Board will
see a lot happening. He doesn't know if the person will be
physically on board yet. They are looking at in-house. Chairman
Fowler stated that will be some pretty big shoes to fill. Jon
did very good job. Lt. Britain stated they have got some really
great candidates that made their decision rough.
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Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000
Ms. Johnson suggested in the future, if staff is asking the board
to amend or change in any way, an order that the board has
entered, could they have a copy of that order to look at so they
would know what they are being asked to change. Ms. Kinney-
Johnson asked if she was talking about the findings of facts,
conclusion of law. Ms. Johnson spoke about a recent order that
came before the Board asking then to change or amend the order
extending a period of time. The situation in general, should
that situation rise again, she would prefer to have the order in
front of her to see what it is she is making a motion to change,
rather than shooting from hip trying to think of what it might
possibly say. She felt very comfortable with it and would prefer
not to do it again. She would like to think that would be a
general consensus. Ms. Kinney-Johnson stated if they do get the
clerical person on board, they will be doing that paperwork. Lt.
Britain stated they are also looking at a third position on
Monday night. This person will replace Lisa at meetings and will
also be in charge of the daily activities next door. Ms. Johnson
asked if this person would be putting together agenda. Lt.
Britain stated this person would be taking 80% away from Beverly.
This person would organize the office, do the agenda packets and
keep everything flowing in a good motion. Ms. Kinney-Johnson
can't be in office and out on the road. The office is now being
manned by an answering machine. One of the first things they
told Mr. Hooper was they need a secretarial position to
coordinate all this stuff. Ms. Kinney-Johnson has so much on her
mind with cases plus trying to remember what the Board wants at
the same time The Board will be able to call someone during the
day if they would like to look at something before the meeting.
It is not good system the way it is now and it is too easy for
mistakes to happen. This is one of the things they are trying to
eliminate.
Lt. Britain stated his job it not go out into the field. He is
not going to involve himself into those kinds of cases. Before
any case comes up on the agenda for this Board, he will review
it He is going to try to make the Board's life easy. Once in a
while you might be able to say no meeting for lack of agenda and
have a night off. They are talking to people again and getting
out of the cars. No more nasty notes unless they have to They
have some projects coming up in the next three to four months
where the Board will have to make some major decisions and
options.
Chairman Fowler spoke about Mayor Schmidt and Councilman Vincenzi
previously serving on the Code Enforcement Board and they
understand some of the Board's problems and requests.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Chairman Fowler
adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 6:20 p.m.
Minutes submitted by: Page -8-
Lisa Bloomer
Citizen Code Enforcement Board
May 18, 2000