08-16-2000
u
u
CITY OF EDGEWATER
CITY HALL SITING COMMITTEE
AUGUST 16, 2000 - 8:00 a.m.
CITY HALL CONFERENCE ROOM
ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER:
City Manager Kenneth Hooper called the Regular Meeting to order
at 8:07 a.m.
ROLL CALL:
Members present were: Christopher Balmer, Ferd Heeb, Matthew
Negedly, JoAnne Sikes, Mike Tanksley, Mike Visconti, and Susan
Wadsworth.
Also present were: Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer and city
Manager Kenneth Hooper.
GENERAL DISCUSSION:
City Manager Hooper showed the Committee a map of Edgewater. He
commented on the two tasks involved being: If the city vacates
this site and moves City Hall, what would go here and if they
were to relocate, where do they relocate? He mentioned either
out by I-95 or looking at long term S. R. 442. City Clerk
Wadsworth pointed out City owned property on a map. Mr. Heeb
asked the date on the aerial map. City Clerk Wadsworth informed
him 1998. City Clerk Wadsworth pointed out City Hall, Menard
May, Public Works, the YMCA, Fire station #55, Veterans Park,
Fire station #57, Whistle stop Park, the Water Plant, and the
Library. City Manager Hooper asked City Clerk Wadsworth if she
knew any of the acreage, which she didn't.
City Manager Hooper stated the School Board has offered 45 acres
on Mango Tree Drive. He has gotten an environmental survey
assessment and it is fairly wet. He seriously doubts it is
suitable to build but it is a site with some potential. City
Manager Hooper stated City Council is looking to find a site
where everyone in City Hall fits in one building. Ms. Sikes
asked what type of acreage they are looking at. City Manager
Hooper stated they are looking at a minimum of 15 acres for a
City Hall site. The property next to Dustin's is for sale but it
is only about eight acres.
Mr. Balmer asked if all of the structures here would move to the
new site. He mentioned Parks and Recreation. city Manager
Hooper stated it could. There were a number of staff folks that
applied to serve on this Committee. He is going to have the
staff folks work on a space needs study. They will provide the
square footage for the number of staff need and the growing rate
for staff in future years.
u
u
Ms. Sikes spoke about looking ahead into the future. City
Manager Hooper suggested a multi-story building. The first floor
is built so you can add a second floor to it.
City Manager Hooper asked the Committee if they had any general
discussion on the tasks? Ms. Sikes stated she has been
approached and has had phone calls regarding what does the City
itself have to say to this. Will it go up for City vote or is it
going to be pushed on them. city Manager Hooper stated it will
go to a City vote. The Committee will make a recommendation that
will go to the City Council the way it is put together. Staff
and himself will comment on it. Ms. Sikes asked if the general
citizens will have a vote. will this go on a ballot? city
Manager Hooper stated Council can decide to do that but he is
going to try and convince them that is not a good idea. He feels
the Committee should have public input once they narrow down some
sites. They should call a public meeting and have them come in
and talk.
Mr. Heeb asked if City staff has identified any potential parcels
and how many are there in City that have enough profile to be
suitable for City Hall. He feels City Hall should be accessible
and in view and something the community will take pride in. city
Manager Hooper thinks the focus would be along u.S. 1, Park
Avenue or along S.R. 442. There is a lot of land out there. FIND
has land they could sell or trade. He feels instead of focusing
on a piece of dirt to focus on an area.
Mr. Heeb feels if you put it on Park you are accentuating the
south end of the city. He feels all of the City is north of Park
Avenue and west of u.S. #1. He feels they should focus on u.S.
#1. He feels S.R. 442 is very residential now. The center of
the City may be out by 1-95 sometime. He feels there isn't any
land big enough except the horse farm. Ms. Sikes stated that is
all swamp land. City Clerk Wadsworth stated the City owns
property out by the Water Plant by 1-95. city Manager Hooper
feels long term future development is out by 1-95. Mr. visconti
stated he was driving around and found three locations: 13 acres
in front of Edgewater Landing, G.D.P. Realty Group has 8 acres
plus 3 acres with a river view, and 35 acres on u.s. #1 opposite
Pyramid Park. He also mentioned opposite the location of the new
middle school. City Manager Hooper commented on why this
property has potential. There is some acreage he thinks the
School Board will be buying and selling. The owner of the
property wants to sell the whole piece.
Mr. Heeb commented on the possible impact this could have if you
put City Hall by a school. He doesn't know how this will impact
S.R. 442. City Manager Hooper spoke about there being a trade
off. This is part of what they are going to weight. Mr. Heeb
asked where the 35 acres is. Mr. visconti informed him across
from Pyramid Park.
Page -2-
City Hall Siting Committee
August 16, 2000
u
~
Mr. Heeb asked where the 13 acres is. Mr. visconti stated it was
across the way. Ms. Sikes asked where the McAllister property
1S. City Clerk Wadsworth showed her. City Manager Hooper
suggested looking at corridors first and narrow it down. He
questioned if they are more interested in u.s. #1. He feels if
they start looking at parcels now they will be ahead of
themselves. He encouraged to consider what the citizens would
like. He feels the idea is to get off the river. That is very
valuable property and he doesn't want a non-taxpayer on the
property. If they are going to stay on the river, this would be
an ideal site.
Mr. Negedly asked if Fire Admin would be there as well. City
Manager Hooper informed him no. Mr. Negedly stated if the Police
Department goes, dispatch goes with it. He spoke about storm
situations. City Manager Hooper informed him the location will
still be out at the Water Plant. That is one of the safer
structures around here from the splash zone. Mr. Negedly spoke
about the Police Department processing criminals and being in and
out. City Manager Hooper spoke about a separate building. He
spoke about getting copies of plans from other cities.
Mr. Balmer feels the future expansion of the city is going to the
west. City Manager Hooper stated they will be annexing about 500
acres to the south within the next six months. There is a major
land developer corning in on Volco Road with 650 units, golf
course, big ranchettes to the west, patio homes around golf
course and single family detached along u.s. #1. He suspects
because of the water & sewer plant expansion they will wind up
going all the way to Oak Hill. The line will be whoever gets
there first. They are not agreeing with Oak Hill on how this
will be done. Mr. Negedly asked which are they seeking more
aggressively, west or south. city Manager Hooper stated south
first, followed by west after that. If west were to occur today,
it would be sold too cheap. If there is some patience that
property will escalate in value. He spoke about when S.R. 442 is
four-Ianed, there is some method to connect it to SR 415. Then
that property has a whole different outlook. Land owners with
patience are sometimes hard to find.
city Manager Hooper informed the Committee the growth rate is up
and the city is growing at about 3%. In the last two years there
have been 150 housing starts in the city. There are about 3,000
buildable lots in Florida Shores. The guy that is talking
annexing to the south is struggling because he has to buy land
and build on it and still compete with the 3,000 lots. Ms.
Sikes asked for the approximate population. City Manager Hooper
stated it is at about 21,000. Ms. Sikes feels the tremendous
growth is amazing.
Page -3-
City Hall siting committee
August 16, 2000
u
~
City Manager Hooper asked the Committee to make a list of what
they want to have. He asked what staff they would like to come
and talk to them. He suggested Ms. Plaskett could speak about
populations, the new land use map, and the zoning maps. Mr.
Balmer asked who uses City Hall now. City Manager Hooper stated
the biggest is the people coming in to pay utility bills. City
Manager Hooper explained it is mostly housing for staff. He
spoke about it costing a lot for manpower.
Mr. Tanksley asked if there is any thought down the road for a
central business district. City Manager Hooper stated yes but he
didn't know where. They have talked of setting up a tax
increment financing and a CRA redevelopment area. Some of that
would incorporate the FIND project. That is a funding mechanism
that could help stimulate some growth or it can do some
redevelopment along Park Avenue or U.S. #1. He recently went to
Port Orange and their old sections of U.S. #1 look just like our
sections. The new stuff evolves around landscaping further west
on the new development.
Mr. Negedly asked if City leaders want this to be a business
district. If they are picking a site they would pick a ton of
area around it to make it attractive for other business
development. If they got a city Hall they would want a lot going
on around city Hall. City Manager Hooper stated you want it to
become part of or become the center piece for a while. Mr.
Negedly feels if they are going to have a downtown one day, they
need to head in that direction.
Mr. visconti asked if they want a complex like Port Orange. City
Manager Hooper stated similar. He spoke about Oviedo's City Hall
being a cracker style and having an older look. Mr. Heeb asked
if Oveido has the Police Department and City Hall in one
building. City Manager Hooper informed him they are two separate
contiguous buildings. Mr. Negedly asked if it would be solely
a city building or has anybody thought about a multistory
building with leased space. city Manager Hooper stated if it
were it would be government. They could lease space to the
County.
Ms. Sikes asked if they are looking at a two story building where
anything the public had to do would be downstairs. city Manager
Hooper stated you could do that and house more people upstairs.
In oviedo the downstairs is the Commission chambers, utility
bills, and the walk in customers. Accounting, personnel and
management are on the second floor. Ms. Sikes asked if there
would be elevators. City Manager Hooper stated yes, a stairway
and handicap accessible elevators. Ms. Sikes asked if they could
get the plans from Oviedo. City Manager Hooper informed her yes.
Page -4-
city Hall siting committee
August 16, 2000
Q
u
Ms. Sikes stated she has heard it is a wonderful complex that is
well put together. City Manager Hooper stated it is within their
realm if they would like to make a road trip. The same guy is
there as when it was built. city Manager Hooper spoke about some
of the new City Halls that are around. Ms. Sikes was born and
raised here and after watching it grow she realizes they must do
something as far as planning. In 1966, the City of Edgewater was
offered the house next door, all the way back to the Water
Plant, all the way down Park Avenue for $29,000. They wouldn't
even discuss it with the people.
city Manager Hooper agreed to get a set of plans of Oviedo or
they could have Gene Wilford come over and talk or they can go
over there. Mr. Balmer thinks they need to narrow it down to
what part of the City they want it in and then from there look at
the available lots. He also suggested looking at some of the
other complexes to see how they would fit in that area without
getting into the details that will be worked out later. City
Manager Hooper stated they all cost about $1.5 million. He is
not a big believer in much luxury for the public. Mr. Balmer
asked if there are any existing buildings that they could move
into that are for sale. City Manager Hooper stated he knows of
no existing structures. They had thought at one time if the
Library were empty it would be a reasonable site to do something
with. Ms. Sikes spoke about the parking at the Library.
City Manager Hooper stated the other big focus is what can you do
with this site and where to go with this. That is going to be a
task no matter which way you go. It could become a condominium
or commercial retail. Whatever it becomes, the folks on
Riverside are going to have strong opinions. Ms. Sikes asked if
they have the deed to this piece of property. City Manager
Hooper informed her yes we have the deed. They are doing
research to see if there are any contingencies or tie downs. Ms.
Sikes stated the only thing she has seen historically is Esther
Hawks left $1,000 in her will to build a town hall where the
Police Department is. This is something they need to check into.
There are looseleaf binders in Gayle Harmon's office at the
Library with what they have been able to collect such as letters,
wills, and abstracts stating Hawks Park. You can look at them in
the Library or copy anything you want.
Mr. Heeb feels a very well done condominium would sell well and
fit with the community. He spoke about the complex north of the
South Causeway bridge that was built three or four years ago with
a six foot wall around it and the first floor is parking. City
Manager Hooper asked if it is a similar size property. Mr. Heeb
stated it may be smaller. City Manager Hooper asked if they have
river frontage. Mr. Heeb informed him no they face the river and
Manatee Park. City Manager Hooper encouraged the Committee to
think about our frontage.
Page -5-
city Hall siting committee
August 16, 2000
o
Q
Mr. Heeb feels any developer that is going to spend that kind of
money will talk about what happens to the park. He feels that
park is ill conceived. This was a fishing village. He thinks
when they develop this property they will want to be assured the
scenery will change. If you change that scenery this property
becomes immensely valuable. Ms. Sikes feels one thing to contend
with is the rise in the back. Mr. Heeb spoke about the
condominium in New Smyrna where the rise doesn't have an impact
because of the parking garage underneath. The biggest problem
they will have is drainage. He feels this property would be an
ideal situation for having a multistory. If it is done right,
the people on Riverside won't get upset.
city Manager Hooper agreed to get a site plan for them to look
at. Mr. Balmer stated if they do anything Ms. Plaskett will have
to make sure it fits into the scenery. Mr. Heeb stated when Port
Orange developed their City Hall complex, they were very much
west of town. Dunlawton Avenue became a breakout center when
they made it six lanes. city Hall was there long before any
development occurred. He feels going further west on S.R. 442
might be the proper corridor. He asked if any of the green west
of Air Park is buildable. city Manager Hooper explained it is
too low for the most part. When you hit Air Park Road it goes
down and comes back up. You can do some acreage parcels but it
can't do anything that has much density or intensity to it. Mr.
Balmer asked how much property the City owns by the Water Plant.
City Manager Hooper informed him 100 acres or more. That would
be the easy part because they would not have to buy the property.
with that being so far out he doesn't know how the citizens would
react.
Mr. Balmer stated a lot of people take 1-95 everyday. It may be
far out by many citizens ride by every day. Mr. Negedly spoke
about no one coming in to pay bills in two or five years. He
feels zoning residential of this site seems most obvious. He
asked if the city is allowed to zone it anything they want.
Obviously they need to make sense with what they do. He asked if
there are any other options. City Manager Hooper informed him
commercial or retail. city Manager Hooper stated they are slim
but the political Riverside outcry would be horrendous. If it
turned into a marina with frontage it would generate traffic on
Riverside with Park Avenue being the main access. This is
something they need to talk about and make sure they agree.
SUNSHINE LAW:
City Manager Hooper explained the Sunshine Law. He informed the
Committee they can't talk to each other about what they are going
to vote for here. They also can't talk to Ms. Wadsworth. They
will be having input on the city's buying and selling of land and
will have to file a financial disclosure. It is not how much you
make it is where your income comes from.
Page -6-
City Hall Siting Committee
August 16, 2000
u
Q
Mr. Balmer stated he has already filed once and asked if you have
to file again. city Manager Hooper informed him only once. Mr.
Tanksley and Mr. visconti have not done financial disclosures.
Mr. Heeb has also done one.
SCHEDULE TASKS:
city Manager Hooper informed them they have no time frame.
Council is not looking and there is no money in next year's
budget to do anything. He spoke about coming up with the tasks
they want done such as an appraisal. If that becomes something
they are interested in they need to let him know so he can go to
Council and get approval for enough money to get an appraiser to
come in and appraiser the property, not the structures.
Mr. Heeb is still under the opinion that there are not many
pieces of property available that will do what they want to do.
He asked for a list of the pieces that could be City Hall. Then
they can start focusing on which area they want to be in. The
City is growing and when it grows those parcels that otherwise
would be available are gone. The city needs to start planning
now and acquire property to put a city Hall on. City Manager
Hooper stated they could make list of the parcels out there.
They could get a realtor but as soon as they open the door they
will be allover them. The last step he wants to take is to have
economic development people or realtors talking to them. He will
get Ms. Plaskett and her staff to make a map that shows where she
would come up with available acreage.
Mr. Heeb feels they need to establish a minimum acreage. He
suggested a minimum of 10 acres. city Manager Hooper stated ten
would be the absolute minimum. He is looking more at 15 acres.
Mr. Heeb feels they should establish a minimum so Ms. Plaskett
knows what they are looking for. Ms. Sikes stated if they were
to look at the property by Dustin's, the city already owns
property near there. Would that help alleviate any of the
problems they have here as far as pinpointing exactly 10 acres.
City Manager Hooper spoke about joint ownership. You buy their
eight acres that are left and you buy or condemn another 7 to
make it. Mr. visconti feels this is not a good location due to
it being very narrow. city Manager Hooper agreed it is not a
good site. If you are going to use that site it should be
something for parks. Mr. Heeb asked how much frontage on SR 442
does the Water Plant property have. City Manager Hooper agreed
to get that information. He informed the Committee he will be
getting a copy of the Zoning map. They show parcels,
configurations, frontage and what property is currently zoned.
Page -7-
city Hall siting committee
August 16, 2000
u
u
Mr. visconti feels they should get together and take a road trip
of the different locations. Ms. Sikes asked if the City has a
van. She feels it would help them to visually see for themselves.
City Manager Hooper asked if she was talking about just Edgewater
or some other places. Mr. Visconti would like to look at S.R.
442 and u.s. #1. City Manager Hooper told the Committee to make
an itinerary and let him know what they want. He will arrange a
time frame and someone to take them to those spots. Ms. Sikes
would like them to stay local. Mr. Balmer stated an in-town trip
for now. He would like to look at the condominium in New Smyrna
on Riverside. city Manager Hooper asked if they are thinking
about who they want to come and talk. Mr. Visconti asked if they
wanted the Committee to get involved with any realtors. City
Manager Hooper informed him no. When they get to that point, it
is staff's role. The Committee's role is to look at this current
site. If they move what is going to take this place and where
are they going to move to. The details of the actual footprint
of the building and what they buy and how they buy it comes later
on.
ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN & VICE CHAIRMAN:
Each Committee member introduced themselves.
City Manager Hooper asked the Committee to keep in mind a
Chairman and Vice Chairman. The Chairman will stand up and make
a presentation to Council. One of the things they will decide
early on is if there is a minority report. He hopes not. Mr.
Heeb asked what the City Manager's role is going to be on the
Committee. City Manager Hooper stated he is here to answer any
questions or help the Committee. If they have assignments for
him his job is to get staff to do what they need to do. He is
here today to get them going. City Manager Hooper spoke about
the City employees that wanted to be on the Committee. He didn't
want it to appear that he had unnecessary control of the
Committee by having staff members on there that work directly for
him. Mr. Heeb asked if they can ask the staff members to submit
their recommendations. Mr. Balmer feels it will be good to use
them in the future when it comes down to it.
City Manager Hooper opened the floor for nominations on a
Chairman. city Clerk Wadsworth nominated Chris Balmer. Mr.
Visconti nominated JoAnne Sikes. Mr. Heeb moved to close the
nominations, second by Negedly. Chris Balmer won the vote.
City Clerk Wadsworth nominated JoAnne Sikes to be the Vice
Chairman. There were no other nominations. Chairman Balmer
closed the nominations. It was the consensus of the Committee to
appoint JoAnne Sikes as the Vice Chairman.
Page -8-
City Hall Siting Committee
August 16, 2000
u
u
city Manager Hooper informed the Committee they had to pick a
schedule. He asked if they would be meeting on Wednesday
mornings. Chairman Balmer stated Wednesday was good for
everyone. He asked if there were any other suggestions. Ms.
Sikes likes the morning. Chairman Balmer asked how often they
are going to meet. City Manager Hooper suggested they start
monthly until they get facts and information. He asked them to
tell him what they want him to provide. Mr. Heeb suggested
meeting every two weeks until they get started. He feels they
should address the problem and get it solved. Chairman Balmer
stated if they can get this done within three months they will be
done with the selection.
Ms. Sikes would like to go on the tour as soon as possible. She
stated they will be able to see things for themselves and when
they are on the van they will be able to discuss it because it
will be an official meeting. She feels they will be able to
eliminate a great deal by visiting sites and that this should be
done as soon as possible. She suggested having the third meeting
as a tour. Chairman Balmer stated so at the next meeting they
will look at site plans and then the third, drive. Mr. Negedly
asked if it would be possible for the next meeting, do they know
the stability of this land here. Would a lot of work need to be
done by a developer to go multistory. Is there any type of
survey on this property. Ms. Sikes stated she has photographs of
when it was marsh as well as photographs after it was filled in.
Mr. Negedly feels a developer spending a big chunk of money will
have an impact. city Manager Hooper stated it is not too
expensive if that is something the Committee wants to do. Ms.
Sikes feels if they get rid of it, they need to do it and make it
enticing. Mr. Tanksley asked if they are speaking of the
property across the street as well. City Manager Hooper stated
he is. Mr. Tanksley stated he is too. Ms. Sikes stated it
should be. It has been very much a part of this community for a
long time. To sell this and make enticing that has to be
included. She asked if the pier is going to disappear? City
Manager Hooper stated that is part of what they have to
recommend. He spoke of putting a boat ramp somewhere else,
possibly Veterans. Mr. Tanksley stated the Parks & Recreation
Committee is studying that right now. Hopefully they are going
to go to Council with a recommendation for a parcel.
Mr. Heeb asked if Parks & Recreation is also going to make a
recommendation with regard to that property as well as this
Committee. Mr. Tanksley stated they have been discussing it for
quite some time. Ms. Sikes feels they are going to have to
consider the fact that Parks & Recreation manages what is over
there. It will have to come from them.
Page -9-
city Hall Siting committee
August 16, 2000
(..)
<)
city Manager Hooper thought they were looking at more of if the
Shuffle Board were replaced where would it go, if you replaced
the boat ramp launching. They aren't looking at what would take
its place. Mr. Heeb feels if the city got rid of the boat ramp
and the shuffleboard court and made that a truly nice park, he
thinks this property would be as valuable as owning that piece of
property where they couldn't develop it.
Mr. Heeb suggested having someone meet with the developer of the
property in New Smyrna. Mr. visconti feels whoever builds on
this property would have to access to the water wouldn't they?
Mr. Heeb stated not necessarily. A lot of people want to have
the ambiance and the view and are not interested in boating.
People on the river are more concerned about having access to the
water. Mr. Negedly asked if the potential outcome of the city is
to sell this with the stipulation they keep Kennedy Park and
revamp it. Ms. Sikes would hate to see the city give up Kennedy
Park. city Manager Hooper asked who is going to explain moving
the mural.
Chairman Balmer stated the next meeting would be August 30th at
8:00 a.m. The meetings in September are September 13th and
September 27th. For the August 30th meeting he has to view plans
of the building sites they have requested. He asked if they set
a minimum acreage of 15. They will also review a list of that at
the next meeting. September 13th they will arrange for a van for
an in-city tour. They don't have any plans yet for September
27th.
Mr. visconti asked if they will have another tour for sites in
Port Orange. Ms. Sikes feels they need to do that down the road.
She feels they need to settle on something here first. Mr.
Tanksley suggested getting information and they may not have to
go over there and tromp through it. Chairman Balmer asked the
Committee to come back on August 30th with some different ideas
from what area the new City Hall should be in. Once they get the
list of vacant land, then they can decide where to go.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business to discuss, City Clerk Wadsworth
moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:10 a.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page -10-
City Hall siting Committee
August 16, 2000