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09-13-2000 ,~ ~ ~ u u CITY OF EDGEWATER CITY HALL SITING COMMITTEE SEPTEMBER 13, 2000 8:00 A.M. CITY HALL CONFERENCE ROOM MINUTES CALL TO ORDER Chairman Balmer called the Regular Meeting to order at 8:00 a.m. in the city Hall Conference Room. ROLL CALL Members present were: Chairman Christopher Balmer, Mike Visconti, Ferd Heeb, JoAnne Sikes, Susan Wadsworth, Mike Tanksley, and Matt Negedly. Also present was Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer, Parks & Recreation Director Jack Corder and Dick Jones. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved at this time. Chairman Balmer recapped what they will do for the future formats of the meetings. They will break the meetings into two sections, the first part will be the site selection of a new City Hall and the second half will be what to do with the current site. That is their task. When they jump back and forth, they don't get as much accomplished. There will be time at the end of the meeting for comments to bring to the table. Ms. Sikes asked Mr. Corder to explain what facilities the city already has. So when they are talking complex, they need to know what we have as well as what his suggestions would be to be across the street. STAFF COMMENTS AND REPORTS Parks and Recreation Director Jack Corder Mr. Corder made a presentation regarding what they are hoping to see at Kennedy Park. He feels the Committee's conversation with the park across the street is an interesting concept with the City Hall complex. It is going to come down to do you sell that site with the City Hall complex or without. There are several options to look at on what to do with that site if they do keep it. The Recreation/Cultural Services Board has decided to look at renovating that park. They already discussed in their plans of moving the shuffleboard courts out of that site because it is an older park that has been mix matched together. 1 I ~ u Q Mr. Corder explained no clear plan was put together when that park was built. It is also the only boat ramps in City that we are working with. The boat ramps seem to have caused the biggest problem over there because of the lack of parking. On holidays and weekends people are also parked in the City Hall parking lot and down the street as well as at Menard Park. Kennedy Park is a piece of property that already has a seawall on it that jets out 100 foot from the channel. This is probably one of the most expensive piece of property in the City. Business sense tells you that property like that you don't want to be full scale parking lot. He feels to renovate it and turn into a parking lot, is not good business sense. What to do with it? That is still undetermined. If they kept it as a park, they will still have to look at the boat ramp/parking situation. They have spoke of Veterans Park as a possibly, expanding it south. They are also still looking at other areas south. The possibility of purchasing land and putting in a new facility in the future. The state wants an easement for stormwater on the canal. They have also looked briefly at Cameron's marina but that is still a limited area. Here, if they leveled everything and made it a parking lot, it is going to bring more people in if they think there is more parking here. The Council will have to determine which way to go with that. Depending on cost, it might be an option of selling this property separately or together. This town is growing. Facilities are always something they are looking at. They just received a grant for additional ballfields at the new Hawks Park complex. In the future they will be looking at old fields to put soccer fields on. Soccer fields in the future is going to be one of his biggest needs. We also lack nature parks. We have a lot of activities parks but not nature parks. Mr. Heeb stated he has always had a boat on a trailer and has launched it from probably every ramp in the state of Florida. This area of New Smyrna Beach, Edgewater and Oak Hill probably has more ramps than Ft. Lauderdale does. The biggest problem has always been parking. He asked Mr. Corder if he has-explored with the County. Riverbreeze Park also doesn't have enough parking but they have a lot of land. Might it be a solution to work with County and ask them to add additional parking. He feels that is not that long a run from Kennedy Park to Riverbreeze Park. It would be a lot less expensive to build parking on Riverbreeze Park than buy another ramp site. Mr. Corder stated it would definitely lessen the burden but at the same aspect through the state Comprehensive Plan they should have ex-amount of ramps for all the residents in the City. Mr. Corder stated they would still have to look at boat ramps. Mr. Corder stated another issue is Riverbreeze is a good park but a lot of people don't want to travel down there. Page -2- City Hall siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 ., u Q Mr. Heeb stated in most of the areas especially South Florida where there is large population growth, you may have to drive forty minutes before you can find a parking place. Riverbreeze is close enough to Slippery Creek that you can be in the back country with no speed limitations. Mr. Corder stated they would have look at the Comp Plan. They should have ex-amount of programs per thousand residents. He can talk to the County but he believes they have a second phase going on in that park. He will see if they are planning on expanding their parking facilities. Mr. Heeb asked how far south of the City is that park. Ms. Sikes estimated about eight miles. Mr. Corder stated he was going to say five. Mr. Jones stated from Winn Dixie to Riverbreeze it is eight miles. Mr. Heeb stated it is not in the city limits of Oak Hill and asked if it would be part of our projected growth area as far as annexations go. Mr. Corder stated that would be a long distance because of how far it is. Mr. Jones stated Oak Hill city limits abuts it. Ms. Sikes stated they put their city limits right at Aerial Road. Riverbreeze Park is south of Aerial Road. Mr. visconti asked how big of an area they are looking for for parking and boat ramps. Mr. Corder stated he hasn't gotten into a serious look at it yet. He would say they would need at least a minimum of ten acres. Mr. Visconti stated on u.S. #1 there is eight acres plus three acres of riverview front through the Realty Group GDP. He brought it up last time as a good site for City Hall but it is too small. Mr. Corder stated he will look into it. Mr. Sikes asked to go back to the parking and boat ramps here. They discussed removing the buildings and making this parking. The more she has thought about it this is too expensive real estate to do something like that with. You need the finances from this place to finance the complex in the future. Mr. Corder stated any place on the river is too expensive to turn into a parking lot. You have to deal with stormwater issues. If you did this today you would probably lose 1/4 to 1/3 just in stormwater. It agreed it is too expensive a piece of property to black top. Mr. Negedly asked if there is a park they are grooming to be the premiere City park. Mr. Corder stated Hawks Recreation Complex and informed him what will be located there. Chairman Balmer asked Mr. Corder if long term the boat ramps would be removed from this park anyway. Mr. Corder stated if City Hall was to stay here he would have to lessen the burden of the parking situation here. If they made this a parking lot they would still have that situation because more people would come. Mr. Visconti asked if there is anything going on with Veterans Park when they widen SR 442. Mr. Corder stated originally the state had asked the City to give a portion of the property to them. They are in discussions. They want an easement to maintain the drainage canal but that hasn't been resolved yet. Page -3- city Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Jones asked to speak about the movement of City Hall itself. It involves the park across the way. As far as Jack is concerned. Didn't hear any mention of Menard May Park as a potential site as opposed to Veterans Park. Menard May Park is larger and people launch their boats now on the shore. He agrees we need a new city hall but that there is no better location than the one they have now. He feels we should keep it here. He feels Edgewater is a recreational area where they need to be with their boats and they should make every accommodation so people can use boats. He suggested keeping the boat ramps here or making more in City. The state is requiring the City have ramps available for the residents. He thinks the Police Department should be moved out on u.s. #1. He feels this will slow people down. He is trying to encourage the Committee to consider keeping City Hall right here. He spoke about this being very valuable property and the sale of the property would cause a lesser amount of money required to build a new City Hall. He hasn't seen any engineering estimates on what it would cost to build a new city Hall. He spoke about the maze in City Hall now. His main purpose is to say he is not alone. There are other people concerned about City Hall being relocated. They don't feels they have a consensus of the residents to move city Hall. Back in 1993, there was an informal survey done that indicated they didn't want to move City Hall. He encouraged them to take a survey before any decisions are made. The people will have to pay taxes. He doesn't feel they are going to make that much money on this property to rebuild City Hall and relocate the Police Department. It will take quite a few acres of land. If this is sold, what happens to the boat ramps out there. He doesn't feel there is going to be too much joy from people if they get rid of them. He thinks they need to get the words out to people so they know what is going on. They have to make sure they are considered with any action that comes about. Mr. Jones stated he received a phone call from someone to let the Committee know there are other people behind him. They want to see this action terminated as far as relocation is concerned. Chairman Balmer spoke about scheduling a couple of meetings and getting the citizens involved. Mr. Jones stated he doesn't think they are talking anything in immediate future. Chairman Balmer informed him that is correct. Ms. Wadsworth stated she was asked at the last meeting to find out about the extension from Mission Road back past Volco Road. She had Brenda Johnson from Environmental Services call Volusia County Traffic Engineering. There are no plans of that. Mr. Heeb stated so Williamson Road will terminate at S.R. 442. Chairman Balmer asked if they got confirmation on the deed. Ms. Wadsworth stated they are still looking into that. Page -4- city Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Chairman Balmer stated they had defined a couple perimeters, one being on a major artery and 15 acres and above. Ms. Sikes spoke about the map they were given in their packets. This is number three on the list which is the McAllister property. It is not 18 acres, it is 35.71 acres. Ms. Plaskett did not miscue what she was asked to do. She was asked to only find the property that was vacant. This is a true plat of the property. The other map shows the location. This has an entrance of three ways, Coco Palm, u.S. #1 and Falcon Ave. Chairman Balmer asked if there were any other perimeters they want to add. There were none. Chairman Balmer asked to speak about future meeting dates. He asked if every other Wednesday is working out for everybody. The next meeting will be September 27th and october 11th and October 25th. Mr. Heeb may have a problem with September 11th. Ms. Wadsworth stated she may be at conference. Ms. Sikes stated she will not be at the next meeting. Chairman Balmer stated to plan on September 27th and then they will look at October closer. He asked if they want to schedule a meeting at this early stage for citizen comments. Mr. Heeb stated all meetings are open to the public. Ms. Sikes suggested they zero in on something and then have it open for the general public. Then they have something to present. Chairman Balmer agreed with that. Ms. Wadsworth asked the Committee if they get outside the van not to discuss anything until they back into the van. Chairman Balmer stated they haven't gotten permission from these property owners. Ms. Sikes informed him we do have for the McAllister property. They are going to drive around the property. They can't be too intrusive. Ms. Sikes stated they do have permission to go on McAllister's. Ms. Wadsworth agreed to drive with Ms. Sikes as co-pilot. Mr. Heeb asked if they would reassemble after the tour. Chairman Balmer informed the Committee to reassemble back in here after the tour. The meeting recessed at 8:33 a.m. OLD BUSINESS Tour selected locations for city Hall site The meeting reconvened in the van at 8:40 a.m. Mr. Heeb feels the City Hall site looks like more than 1 1/4 acres. An acre is 200 and something by 200 and something. Page -5- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u The Committee traveled to site number six first. Ms. Sikes asked if the City has a Geiger counter. She stated they were hunting the original wells the city put down back years ago and she would love to be able to find it. Ms. Wadsworth stated she would check with Brenda. Mr. Heeb asked Ms. Sikes if she likes to stomp around in the woods. Ms. Sikes yes. She would like to find two wells, one off of North Riverside where there used to be a packing house. It was put down in about 1880. Mr. Tanksley asked if they were City wells. Ms. Sikes stated no they were private wells. There were quite a few big flowing wells. The well in front of the Community Center is historic and whatever is sold or whatever is done, she would like to see that that is preserved no matter who purchases it. She would like something included that the well would not be touched. Ms. Wadsworth stated she doesn't think the City would let that go. Mr. Tanksley suggested including that in a protective ordinance. Mr. Heeb feels if the City retains Kennedy Park it could be preserved that way without a problem. Mr. visconti mentioned Menard Park. Mr. Heeb stated you would have the same problem as Kennedy, parking. The only good thing about Veterans is that when you have overflow of Veterans you can park at the shopping center. Ms. Sikes wouldn't want to put a City Hall back here anyway. Chairman Balmer stated the site is even with the end of the strip. Mr. Negedly made a motion to strike number six from the list for obvious reasons, second by Mr. Heeb. The motion CARRIED 7-0. Mr. Negedly stated this doesn't meet the criteria of being by a major road. The Committee proceeded on to site number 9 - Beck's Grove. Ms. Sikes stated this used to be a marvelous orange grove. Mr. Heeb asked about the widening of S.R. 442 and which part they are going to do first. They aren't going to widen the whole thing out to I-95 to start with. Mr. Visconti stated they will be taking the medians from where they are now and moving them out here. The Committee reviewed the property from the van. Ms. Sikes stated she has been here many times from childhood up and this land tapers to the north. It slopes downward and is part of the swamp. There is a high strip with the fruit trees but as it goes back to the north it tapers down and it is quite low. Mr. Heeb asked how many acres is the grove part of the property. Ms. Sikes stated she didn't know. It goes to the west and east of where they are parked. It is supposed to be 84.85 acres. Mr. Heeb stated according to their map it looks like there are three parcels in the 85 acres. The only thing they would be interested in would be the front parcel and they are only interested in 15 acres. Mr. Heeb stated City Manager Hooper has to negotiate with these people. Ms. Wadsworth took a picture of site number nine. Page -6- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Ms. Sikes stated she doesn't know if Mrs. Beck is still involved. Mr. Heeb asked if they were going to look at the Water Plant property. He feels if they are already this far out and they already own property out here it would be a mistake not to look at it. Chairman Balmer agreed why not look at it if they already own the property. The Committee reviewed the Water Plant property. Mr. Heeb asked about the building behind City Hall under the water tower. Ms. Wadsworth stated that is Terry's Administrative office. Mr. Heeb presumed he would move into City Hall. He talked to Mr. Wadsworth the other day about the future of the water tower. Chairman Balmer read from the minutes city Manager Hooper informed them there are 100 acres or more at the Water Plant. If they are going this far out why would they buy more property if they already have it. Mr. Heeb made a motion to eliminate the Beck property, second by Ms. Sikes. The motion CARRIED 7-0. Ms. Wadsworth asked if they wanted to include the Water Plant property now as one of their sites. Mr. Heeb amended his motion to eliminate Beck's property and add the Water Plant property, second by Mr. Negedly. The motion CARRIED 6-1. Ms. Sikes voted NO. The Committee proceeded on to the Coronado Horse Farm property. Chairman Balmer stated on his map of properties he had already marked through number six by the airport. Mr. Negedly stated he did also. Chairman Balmer stated they marked it off in the last meeting. Ms. Sikes stated she did also. The Committee reviewed the Coronado Horse Farm property. Mr. Heeb asked where the School Board property is going to end. Ms. Wadsworth didn't know. Mr. Heeb stated it's from S.R. 442 south. Ms. Wadsworth took a picture of this site. Mr. Heeb stated he thought the School Board was going to take the northwest corner of this property. Mr. Negedly stated that is where we are. Mr. Heeb asked how far to the south would their line go. Chairman Balmer stated nobody knows that. Mr. Heeb stated they don't go all the way across to other side do they. Mr. Negedly pointed out the old dump. Chairman Balmer stated he had that they were supposed to look at the west acreage of number eight and they didn't. Ms. Wadsworth agreed to go back after they finish reviewing this site. Chairman Balmer stated for the next meeting they will get clarification of what portion of Coronado Farms the School Board has purchased. Ms. Wadsworth stated she didn't believe they had completely purchased it yet. Ms. Sikes stated Ms. Plaskett made a comment that they perhaps wanted more than they were originally looking at. Ms. Wadsworth stated she would go back around and do the circle to see the other side. Chairman Balmer suggested they go down pine Dale to get back to site number eight to get a sense of what that road is. Mr. Heeb asked if the horse farm is still being operated as horse farm. Ms. Wadsworth stated at the present time yes but she doesn't think the property has been purchased yet. She thinks it is pending. Page -7- city Hall siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Heeb asked if they are taking all the homes on the south side of S.R. 442 in the widening. Ms. Wadsworth informed him mostly up at the east end on the east side of the railroad tracks by the Library. Mr. Negedly spoke about an access road that will be going in on the Horse Farm property. Mr. Heeb pointed out a stake he saw. Mr. Negedly stated they have been out here for months surveying. Mr. visconti feels this is one of the better locations. Mr. Tanksley feels it is a good location but not a good mix. Mr. Heeb agreed. Ms. Sikes doesn't think City Hall and a business office can function around a middle school. Ms. Wadsworth asked if this property east of the Truck Center. Chairman Balmer informed her it starts past Air Park and goes all the way down. Mr. Negedly stated they didn't take out west of Mission Road. Mr. Tanksley stated the same logic applies. They would be criticized for buying more land when they already own the Water Plant property. Mr. Negedly cautioned the Committee against them looking at something and saying they don't know the price of property. He is concerned about elevation. Chairman Balmer stated they aren't going to be getting involved in the price of the land. They will have to use their best judgment on what they know and what they can visually see. Mr. Negedly feels this is the future of Edgewater at stake. Mr. sikes made a motion to eliminate west end of this piece of land, second by Mr. Heeb. The motion CARRIED 5-2. Mr. Negedly and Chairman Balmer voted NO. Mr. Heeb feels it is too close to property they already own. He can't see paying money for this piece of property when they own another piece a half a mile away from it. He feels Mission Road is going to be a major intersection some day. Mr. Negedly stated there is nothing saying they can't to do a multi-fold presentation. The Committee spoke about how low some of the property was coming in from 1-95. Ms. Wadsworth spoke about it being part of the hammock. Mr. Tanksley thought it was a swamp. Ms. sikes stated hammock land is very low. She has seen the Horse Farm under water. Mr. Negedly spoke about Disney being built on a swamp. He doesn't want them to look back and say they had the opportunity. The elevation here is higher than the railroad tracks. Chairman Balmer stated they are eliminating the property because if they are going that far out it would not be feasible to purchase more land and pay for fill when we have land out there. Mr. Negedly stated his only concern is co-habitation with Water Plant and growth around City Hall. That is why he voted the way they did. Ms. Wadsworth pointed out the homes that will be taken with the widening of S.R. 442 when they passed Evergreen Drive. Mr. Tanksley stated they fought like crazy to save the medians. Mr. visconti stated they are going to take thirteen homes. Mr. Heeb feels they should have built a berm. Page -8- city Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Ms. Sikes stated they are approaching site number three which is 35.71 acres Coco Palm. Mr. Heeb asked Ms. Sikes if she has walked around it. Ms. Sikes informed him yes she has. If the City does not buy this piece of land, being in the center of town, they have made biggest mistake they will ever make. This is all original woods. Ms. Wadsworth agreed with Ms. Sikes. Ms. Sikes feels they are wasting their time looking at anything else. Mr. Heeb asked what the homes are. Ms. Wadsworth stated they are McAllister's homes. Ms. Sikes stated they go with the property. The Committee got out and reviewed the property. As the Committee was leaving Ms. Sikes pointed out where the property goes to. There is 285 feet of frontage. Mr. Negedly asked if he will divide it. Chairman Balmer stated Ms. Sikes didn't ask. Ms. Wadsworth pointed out Boston Road for Mr. Heeb. Mr. visconti feels this is one of the better locations. Ms. Sikes stated it is the center of town. Mr. visconti confirmed there was water and sewer already on the property. Ms. Sikes informed him on the back and front of the property. She showed the Committee where the property comes out on Falcon Avenue. Chairman Balmer stated it has access on Falcon also. Ms. Sikes stated yes. The Committee then reviewed site number four - the Silver Ridge property. Ms. Sikes informed the Committee the canal is going through the back part of this one. The canal does not go through McAllister property. Chairman Balmer spoke about how number four is set up on the map. Mr. Negedly stated it looks like it would have access to one of the Florida Shores streets. Ms. Wadsworth stated she thinks that is the County. It is down by Cecil's. She agreed to ride by there. Chairman Balmer spoke about there being no frontage on U.S. #1. The Committee rode around the back side of site number four. The Committee proceeded on to review site numbers five and five A. There was a brief discussion regarding how nice the medians look. Mr. Negedly asked if they wanted to take action on number four. Chairman Balmer asked if there are wetlands issues here. Ms. Sikes stated absolutely. Between here and the school is a low strip that goes back to Volco Road. Chairman Balmer they would have the same type issues as horse farm with City Hall being next to a school. Ms. Sikes stated there would be a strip between. Chairman Balmer stated but you would still have the same traffic patterns. He asked if they could drive the back side of four and three. She agreed to. Page -9- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Tanksley spoke about the City moving in this direction. Mr. Heeb feels they have to be careful they don't eliminate everything. The City has to have some negotiating power. Chairman Balmer asked if they should make a top three list. Ms. Sikes stated she was going to recommend the top three also. Chairman Balmer stated he thinks they will end up doing that for the current parcel also. Ms. Sikes stated it is out of our hands. Ms. Wadsworth took a picture of the back of Silver Ridge. Chairman Balmer suggested they head back to City Hall. Ms. Sikes feels they should keep three, four, and five. Mr. Visconti asked if New Smyrna Beach or Edgewater is bigger. Ms. Sikes stated Edgewater has a population of about 22,000 from the Census. Mr. Heeb asked about New Smyrna Beach. Ms. Sikes stated she didn't get that one. Mr. Heeb stated it seems to him Edgewater just crept past New Smyrna Beach. Ms. Sikes stated when they did the elimination of land for the Library each person wrote down their three top choices. That is what was turned into the city. Mr. Heeb feels they should rank at least five sites and then the City will go out and negotiate which he feels would be up to the city. Our ranking indicates where they think it should be first of all. It will be pUblic record and the property owners will know how they are ranked. Chairman Balmer stated they still have sites three, four, five, five a, seven and they have added the Water Plant. Ms. Wadsworth stated that is correct. Mr. Heeb suggested they save their discussion for when they get back to City Hall. Mr. Visconti asked if the water tower belongs to the city. Ms. Wadsworth informed him yes. Mr. visconti asked if there is any land available from the Water tower to Riverside. Ms. Wadsworth informed him it is owned by the Baptist Church as well as individual owners. Ms. Wadsworth pointed out the water tower and the well across from City Hall. Mr. Tanksley feels they also need to save the mural. The Committee returned from the tour at 9:52 a.m. DISCUSSION ITEMS Mr. Heeb expressed concern that Mr. Jones raised and Ms. Sikes mentioned. To some degree, he is instrumental in this Committee being formed. When the new Council took office they had some workshops about the future of the city. One of the things that popped up was the issue of whether we need a new City Hall or not. He didn't attend of the workshops but it seemed like the discussion died. It was brought up as something in the future. He attended Council meeting four or five months ago and his statement to the Council was face it, at some point in time we are going to have to have a new city Hall. Page -10- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Heeb stated this City Hall cannot accommodate the projected growth. with this type of growth, what is going to happen is they are going to rapidly run out of places to put City Hall and prices of property are going to escalate. He recommended they form a search committee to look at the parcels and go ahead and start talking about acquiring land for the future City Hall site. He thinks the City has gotten carried away with buying land and building City Hall. Before they run out of land, the city should buy a piece of land that will be the future City Hall site. Once the land is acquired then you start talking about when to build the City Hall. He thinks acquiring land is absolutely mandatory now. Once you go through the exercise they have just finished, it becomes obvious they need to act now. They can't put this off. Chairman Balmer thinks Council has given them direction. They are not here to move city Hall next week. They will not even be involved in that process. They are simply looking at available parcels today trying to lock in the values of today. They want to make sure it is the right location but also at a price we can afford. It has been very clear from City Manager Hooper and the Council that that is their goal. If they are giving any other message, they are giving the wrong message. Mr. Heeb stated City Manager Hooper has made the statement he would like to see us in a city Hall in two years. Chairman Balmer stated that is not their battle or discussion. Mr. visconti asked if they are going to vote on the sites. Chairman Balmer stated they are down to six sites and he thinks it would be appropriate for them to take the next two weeks and think about that. As individual if they want they can go back out and re-Iook at the properties. He thinks they should come prepared next time for the preliminary ranking of those sites. Mr. Negedly is correct when they don't know about surveys, height of land or how much it will cost to fill it. They have been told if they could put City Hall anywhere they wanted to, where would they put it. Common sense tells you they should look at vacant land. That is why they said next to a major artery and fifteen acres or above. They don't need to know the price of the land. They need to make a listing of their favorites. They are currently down to six properties. He feels too much is bad but he thinks too little hampers their bargaining power. Ms. Wadsworth asked about Mr. Jones suggestion of not eliminating this site. Chairman Balmer feels that suggestion is good and valid. Mr. visconti stated that is why he asked about the Water Tower. He spoke about purchasing the property behind here. He feels you aren't going to make money if you are not selling this piece of property. It will cost more money to acquire that and build a new city Hall. Chairman Balmer stated they have also come up with what do they do when the new one is being built and this one is coming down. Page -11- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Heeb stated they discussed earlier and this Committee agreed that City Hall should be on a main thoroughfare. Riverside Drive and Park Avenue are not major thoroughfares. Riverside Drive is a residential area. Even though you can have a municipal property in a residential area it is insane to have this big a complex on a major road. First of all it diminishes the value of Riverside Drive which is possibly the most valuable property in Edgewater. He feels if you take this piece of property and sell it and let it be developed appropriately, the City has complete control of how it will be developed and they should retain that control to make sure it blends in with the area. It will up the property tax roll by three or four million dollars just on this one parcel, forget about across the street. Chairman Balmer stated he doesn't know if that is necessarily an issue right now when talking about site selection and retaining this parcel for that. If they determine in factors where they want the future of City Hall to be on a major thoroughfare and fifteen acres or above, this site does not fit the criteria. Mr. Tanksley stated he didn't think keeping this site was an option. Mr. visconti stated what if they put it up to a vote and the people say they want to stay where they are. Chairman Balmer stated it is the people's government. Mr. visconti feels they should look into site number three, McAllister's property before the City loses out on a piece of property of that value. They missed out on Eckerd's property. Ms. Sikes stated they are thinking future. This is why they were chosen. She has lived here for 46 years. They need to look for places that allow them to grow. They have looked at places more than 15 acres. Why encompass themselves to 15 acres when there is land available in the heart of this City. The City of Edgewater can not afford to make a mistake. Chairman Balmer agreed. Thinks they all are wanting to do that. It will be a mistake if they don't get something for the future. Ms. Sikes spoke about how small the fire station is on u.S. #1. She feels it could be put back on the tax rolls and moved to another location. She sat down with Tracey Barlow yesterday. She also feels Terry's office could be moved as well as the Parks and Recreation office. Chairman Balmer stated 15 acres to him was just a minimum. He is not opposed to talking about if it is a 46 acre parcel, let's try to get the whole thing. He thinks they should be thinking about consolidating these other places into that. Ms. Sikes stated Tracey was very excited about the thought. The new station was built with bigger doors with the future in mind. They are talking about City and encompassing everything they need on one piece of ground. She also feels a nature park could be encompassed. They have seen property within City that something needs to be done before it has gotten away from the city and they wind up out in the boondocks. Page -12- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Chairman Balmer stated they are here to assess the current value of the land and whether it is worth it to purchase the property now for the future City Hall. Ms. Sikes stated she will not be at the next meeting but she will submit her picks. Chairman Balmer asked the Committee what they wanted to do as far as ranking. Mr. Heeb recommended they select five pieces of property and rank them. The Council is looking for what this diverse group of citizens feels where they should put the future City Hall. He feels that is the direction they are looking for and that is what they should give them. There were only 11 parcels that were available. Mr. visconti asked how do they feel about number seven. Mr. Negedly asked if they are shorting themselves by only looking at vacant property. He is charged with where should city Hall be not with what is on it now. He again questioned if they have short sided themselves by looking at only city vacant property. The best piece may be in the County. Chairman Balmer stated no one is talking about eminent domain, which is the taking of property. Mr. Negedly stated they are charged with if City Hall were to vacate this property, where would it go. They are not looking at price. They are looking at where it should go. Mr. Heeb stated there are a number of parcels in this City if they were going to buy improved property and demolish it and build a City Hall, he would opt for the first trailer park on u.s. #1. They are not economically feasible because the value of the land turns on the income stream that the trailer park generates. It is worth a lot more as trailer park than as vacant property. He feels they should look at the available property and rank those properties. The best spot might be in the middle of Florida Shores but they aren't going to do that. He felt Eckerd's property would have been a beautiful place for City Hall. He suggested they look at the properties they have and rank them and let the City go to work with negotiations. Chairman Balmer suggested they come back next time with an individual ranking of three, four, five and five a, seven and eleven being the Water Plant. Next time they will get deeper into what to do with this site. Mr. Negedly stated they are selling themselves way short. Mr. Tanksley stated realtors will drag that out. Mr. Negedly stated they have already eliminated and he feels they shouldn't. Economically he agrees. He feels they don't know what potential exists. Areas will be redeveloped over a fifty year time. Chairman Balmer stated they are talking about purchasing property today. Development may not be for fifty or ten years but they are looking at purchasing property today. Mr. Negedly stated things are going to be redeveloped and he doesn't want to not consider something because of it being a mobile home park. Page -13- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000 u u Mr. Heeb stated he understands and asked Mr. Negedly for some direction. He feels he has something in his head relative to this site and he thinks this Committee is completely open to suggestions. Mr. Negedly stated many citizens who think it should be here, one recommendation would be to acquire fifteen acres here. That is a possibility. They are here to look at possibilities. They should not be looking at elevation, drainage or cost. They are dreaming of where to put City Hall. Mr. Heeb stated the point of the matter is a lot of those people are saying keeping it here because they don't want the City to spend the money. Ms. Wadsworth stated she thinks everybody realizes this city Hall has been outgrown and it has to be replaced. Mr. Heeb feels it is insanity keeping it here. He doesn't feel they should look at it as a location. They should look at where they think City Hall should be, either u.s. #1 or S.R. 442. He spoke about the setup of the Port Orange City Hall complex. You envision a well run, well organized community that looks like a nice place to live. He feels that says it all. Mr. Negedly stated it is not their task what to do with it, it is their task to recommend a location. Chairman Balmer stated they are tasked with site selection. Mr. Negedly stated if they do site only, they also need to look at existing structures. Chairman Balmer stated this will be tabled for next time. Mr. visconti stated they are charged with finding the locale. Chairman Balmer stated the Committee has up to this point determined that should be vacant land. Mr. Negedly stated they don't know what potential exists. Chairman Balmer stated if they have ample properties on S.R. 442 and u.s. #1, why would they need to look at other areas. Mr. Negedly stated to satisfy the citizens that want to keep it in this area. Chairman Balmer stated they as a Committee have said they are going to look at u.s. #1 and S.R. 442. Mr. visconti stated the whole thing is, according to what he heard from City Manager Hooper is that this piece of land is a valuable piece of land and the only way to build a City Hall would be to vacate this piece of property, selling it and the purchase price of this property will go toward the purchase and building of the new City Hall on the site that is chosen. This Committee was formed for that purpose. Mr. Negedly stated if they were to vacate, where would they go. Chairman Balmer stated he was at the meeting and it was a site selection of dreaming where they would like to see City Hall. There was no doubt that they could not do that if they didn't sell this property. Mr. Negedly commented on why he strongly disagrees. Mr. Heeb asked if the people that are talking about moving City Hall are attached to Riverside or attached to dollars and cents. Page -14- City Hall Siting Cmt. september 13, 2000 u u Ms. Sikes stated both for the simple reason the name of the town is Edgewater. She has heard that quite often. Why move into the boon docks when it is Edge water? She has heard quite a bit that people have had no say on this whatsoever. This is their tax dollars. Can we afford to do it? The citizens need to have an input to this. Chairman Balmer stated it has been made clear to them that this is a citizen driven committee. City manager Hooper made it clear at his presentation to Council that they would have citizen comments all the time. Mr. Heeb stated when the City paved Florida Shores, they pledged other revenues. He told Mr. Munoz and the Council that was a subterfuge. That was an item that should have been in a referendum, the borrowing of 15 million dollars. They got around having to go to the citizens and ask to borrow the money. When they were doing the Charter Review this was a very big issue in the fact that the City could get around a referendum for borrowing money. They went in and said the City of Edgewater by Charter amendment can not borrow money without the approval of the citizens by referendum. There are certain needs eminent in the City, one being City Hall. They said the City could borrow, without a referendum, 2 1/2 or 3 million dollars. He would bet the taxes on this piece of property would refund the debt over a 20 or 30 year period. He doesn't think they need to get into financing. He feels they have to use some common sense. He feels a parking lot is insanity. He feels they should take the available properties and of the available properties they say this is where they should put City Hall. He feels they have to remember these are taxpayer dollars. Ms. Wadsworth doesn't think they should focus on one particular piece of property. She feels they should look at the overall picture. Chairman Balmer explained if anybody on the Committee had any other property to add that is something the Committee would look at. He doesn't like idea of creating two lists. Mr. Negedly stated he wants to go on record that they looked at everything.- Mr. Heeb asked if there are any trailer parks that have fifteen acres. Ms. Wadsworth stated Pyramid Park is one. Chairman Balmer stated he hesitates them talking about someone's home. Ms. Wadsworth stated by him opening up that window, we have a lot of strip malls that might be an option. Chairman Balmer stated if you have a strip mall next to a vacant piece of property, he wanted to make sure Mr. Negedly would go with the vacant land. Mr. Negedly stated he was playing devil's advocate so they cover all their basis. Chairman Balmer stated if they have a vacant piece in that area, obviously they wouldn't look at current structures. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Ms. Sikes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 10:27 a.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page -15- City Hall Siting Cmt. September 13, 2000