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03-06-2006 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING MARCH 6, 2006 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Present Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present Paralegal Robin Matusick Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Regular Meeting of February 13, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the February 13, 2006 minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS A. Mayor Thomas presenting a plaque to Robert Garthwaite for his 32 years of dedicated volunteer service to the City of Edgewater Mayor Thomas presented Robert Garthwaite with a plaque for his volunteer service to the community. Page 1 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter spoke of serving for six years with Mr. Garthwaite on the Planning and Zoning Board. 4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers commented on the MPO Workshop she attended last week. She commented on not knowing how expensive it was to build one mile of road. She was told it costs around $7 million and that seeming to be high compared to the fact the MPO only receives $4 million per year for funding. A road that is going to be built through the MPO process needs the Federal and State funds. She has been made aware that Volusia County is considered a Charter County in the State of Florida. There is a bill right now, if it gets passed, where there could be some funding coming our way. One of the things she is trying to work on is some sidewalks in the Florida Shores area. She would like to get sidewalks on a few of the roads that are leading to the elementary school. She also mentioned the possibility of additional funding. She spoke of still being in the learning process and most things taking anywhere from seven to fifteen years with the MPO, depending on what it is. Mayor Thomas stated Councilwoman Rogers requested to be put on the MPO and he serves on many boards and they have to get up there and fight for this money and that is what she is doing for us. He expressed his appreciation for what she is doing for the City. Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on what a wonderful person Mr. Garthwaite is. She has asked things of him at times when he has had personal issues that were going on in his life and he still found the time to do what she asked him to do for the City. She couldn’t thank him enough. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was at the No Name Saturday night but was going to make her comments during that agenda item. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned Mr. Garthwaite being a very special Edgewater resident. She also visited the No Name on Sunday morning but also was going to save her comments until that agenda item. Page 2 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Mayor Thomas commented on the meetings he has been to. He is averaging two a day, sometimes six a day. He doesn’t see how somebody with a full time job can do this and his hat goes off to the prior Mayor for going to as many meetings as he did. He met with Environmental Services and the other part of that crew and this week he meets with the Police Officers. He has two meetings, one Wednesday and one Thursday. He will be riding with the Police Officers on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The only thing he has left is Environmental Services and he will have that goal complete. One of his goals was to meet with each individual City employee and then he will go back and try to ride with some of the employees and discuss their jobs and how they do it and the problems they are encountering. 5. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Mike Visconti , 316 Pine Breeze Drive, informed the Council he was going to talk about his favorite subject, City Hall. He mentioned the phrase “things happen for the best and for a reason.” He spoke of getting rid of the mural and getting rid of the Shuffleboard. He suggested City Hall be built across the street. He feels Edgewater would be the envy of all the local cities. If there was a vote on this tonight, there would be one sure vote. He further commented on the cost savings due to not having to rent a location, the $1.5 million to renovate the existing City Hall could go towards a new one. He also mentioned getting a matching grant for $1.5 million and the City having $3 million towards a new City Hall. Once the building is built, they could move from here to across the street. He suggested this building be demolished and a new Police Station built. He suggested two or three-story buildings. He commented on not having to spend any money for land due to the City already owning the property. He commented on the money the City spent for the design of a new City Hall and what a beautiful building it was. He further commented on having a beautiful view of the river. He feels this has some merits and he asked the Council and City Manager to look into it to see if it is a possibility. Mayor Thomas mentioned working on three possibilities for City Hall. Some of them they cannot discuss because they are getting the land pretty cheap. He guaranteed Mr. Visconti he would be pleasantly surprised. Page 3 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Andy Anderson , Pine Tree Drive, feels something needs to be done about the garbage and trash pickup. The garbage is twice a week and if there is a holiday instead of being on their day it is postponed to the next day. He mentioned there being a holiday every month of the year except August. Almost every month they have this switch around for regular garbage pickup. Where he came from, if the garbage was to be picked up on Tuesday and Christmas fell on Tuesday, it got picked up on Christmas. He has talked to several people and they have never seen it like they do it in Edgewater. The City was supposed to pickup the trash in his neighborhood on Wednesday and they didn’t come by until Friday. He feels it looks like the City is having a problem handling this. Like it is too much or they don’t have enough trucks or they don’t have enough people or they are overloaded. When they postpone it from a Tuesday until Wednesday, and then they pickup on Friday, on Friday they are so loaded sometimes they don’t make it at all. He suggested rather than have it postponed like that, he doesn’t know why it can’t be picked up on the regular days like other communities. Mr. Anderson stated as far as the trash pickup goes it’s only once a week except if there is a holiday. He spoke of it being a long time around Christmas and New Year’s to go without your trash being picked up. He spoke of having a lot of debris now because of the leaves falling. He asked the Council to consider this and perhaps together they can come up with a better solution then what we have now. City Manager Hooper stated they pick up garbage twice a week and bagged yard waste once a week. If a holiday were to occur on Wednesday it’s not picked up until the following week. That is routine and is done throughout Florida. He didn’t know where Mr. Anderson was talking about that it’s not done in Florida. If you were to change that, they would pay overtime and have a considerable amount of additional funds of a crew working a holiday. He has little if any complaints about that sliding of one day. He spoke of the yard debris and getting behind on cycles. He spoke of certain times of the year and after storms there being a tremendous amount and the whole City won’t get picked up in a day. They come back on the following day for the bagged yard waste. Page 4 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Mr. Anderson stated where they lived before was in Florida and there it was picked up on the day it was supposed to get picked up, holiday or not. Mayor Thomas questioned the yard debris getting picked up every week. City Manager Hooper stated it gets picked up on Wednesday. Councilwoman Lichter stated not the loose yard debris but the bagged and in the can is every week. Mayor Thomas stated it might be his fault because his day to meet with Environmental Services was last Wednesday and they came in thirty minutes early. If it is his fault, he apologized. Mr. Anderson stated he didn’t know whose fault it was but there has been a problem and he thought he would bring it up and have Council think about it and come up with a better solution. Carol Ann Stoughton , 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she attended the last Council meeting and in the presence of one of the members of the audience something very derogatory was said to her and she wished it to be stopped. She was called a very vulgar name that starts with a W by one of the City’s Councilwomen and she wants it to stop and doesn’t want to hear it again or she will be taking legal action and she knows who it is. Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn’t going to comment but she was threatened that night and they will discuss it later. She informed Ms. Stoughton she wanted to go to court, she could certainly could. She was threatened by Ms. Stoughton and called names as she walked out of here alone. She was very frightened going home and tonight she would be accompanied by someone. Jim Girvan , No Name Saloon, 2001 S. Ridgewood Avenue, stated a new management team has been operating the No Name Saloon since June 2005. They have all worked with the City of Edgewater and complied to all the requests given to them, such as painting the fence, landscaping and garbage relocation. He mentioned being issued a citation for a noise violation during Octoberfest. He mentioned sound barriers being placed on the stage in order to prevent further noise nuisances. These noise barriers have proven to be successful. Their noise levels for the first three days of Bike Week are down dramatically. Mr. Anderson has Page 5 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 informed Code Enforcement the noise levels at the No Name Saloon have been down significantly. He mentioned the building being erected north of the No Name altering several parking features of their establishment. A concrete median was placed on Boston Road in front of their delivery entrance causing canceled deliveries, the inability of fire trucks and emergency vehicles to enter and major traffic delays. The median also directs all traffic leaving the No Name Saloon to residential neighborhoods on Riverside Drive. The major issue of this concrete median is a safety issue. It was mentioned by a City official that the curb was in place for safety purposes. Emergency vehicles are not inhibited from entering through their delivery entrance because of this median impeding medical attending their patrons may need. Nowhere within the City limits is there a median or mountable curb located on a two-lane street. Recently SR 442 was reconstructed and no concrete medians were placed there for safety purposes. They know the City doesn’t want to stop deliveries to their establishment nor cause unsafe conditions for pedestrians or motorists due tot his median. Recently no parking signs have been placed on the south side of Boston Road in front of their side parking lot. They have no objections to the no parking signs located on the north side of the road because they know they were placed there for safety purposes. The signs placed on the south side of Boston Road completely restrict a good portion of their parking. Their building was constructed over fifty years ago, some of which is located on the State right-of-way. The DOT has placed a turn lane in front of their establishment as well as placing concrete posts at their front exit located on Boston Road. These posts have completely block off all access from Boston Road to their front parking lot further restricting access to their building and creating an unsafe parking situation. DOT has also erected plastic posts along the grass on U.S. #1 preventing all exiting from the front of their building. The parking in front of the No Name Saloon causes neither interference with traffic on U.S. #1 nor any hindrance. He spoke to Supervisor Johnson of the Florida Highway Patrol and he informed him that parking in front of the building of their establishment causes no violation of any Florida State Statute. They were told they could not park in the right-of-way, which has been their parking lot for over fifty years. He is sure the City will allow them to begin parking vehicles in front of their establishment again because he doesn’t believe the City would intentionally try Page 6 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 to put them out of business. He has shown all the Councilmembers, the Mayor and the Chief the changes that have occurred at the No Name Saloon. They will always comply with the City’s request and he is sure the City encourages local businesses to succeed, especially establishments that help the economy of the City. He believes there is a conflict of interest with City Manager Hooper interjecting any comments or discussing in the dealings of the City and the No Name Saloon due to his prior involvement with the former management of their establishment. He asked that City Manager Hooper abstain any comment and further dealings with businesses between the City and the No Name Saloon. He then mentioned pictures they have taken down U.S. #1. Right now the parking is encaged with all of the posts around it. He spoke of there being no safety issues whatsoever of them parking. He feels when you go by the No Name Saloon now and you see ten or fifteen motorcycles there you think the place is closed. The Police came and put tape around the posts they had there that they switched to red tape because it was crime scene tape they put there and it looked like someone died in the parking lot. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Girvan he would have to have City Manager Hooper respond because he is the one that did the stuff with DOT and the regulations. City Manager Hooper asked City Clerk Wadsworth to put the site plan on and informed Council they probably have the permit. He referred to Page 3 of the Special Activity permit. This isn’t the first time that Councilman Vincenzi has requested in the past about the right-of-way. City Manager Hooper asked City Clerk Wadsworth if they had the permit. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they didn’t. City Manager Hooper then asked City Clerk Wadsworth to put it in on the overhead and again referred to Page 3, Item 5 regarding no parking being permitted within the U.S. #1 right-of-way. No parking shall be permitted within the Boston Road right-of-way. The area shall be clearly marked, taped off and kept free from vehicle encroachment at all time. That has been in there. It’s strong. When they identified this and went through the permit, he was clear with Council and defined that it’s changed. What had been parking on the west side of U.S. #1 was reducing. There is a shopping center planned to go there. Dollar General in the last year and a half has been going through Page 7 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 the site plan process. They have designed the meeting that Mr. Girvan was talking about. Their engineer submitted that and it went to the City’s engineer for approval. DOT had to issue a permit for the turn-lane in front of the No Name. That permit was issued and then the construction was done by Dollar General. City staff met with the staff from the No Name and told them that until the turn lane is open they could continue to park. When the turn lane is open, they would have traffic within fifteen feet of their front door. DOT has also told the City they were going to go out and put up traffic signs that said no parking. He had no idea they were going to put up the picket fence looking thing that they did but they did. What they are stating is that is to keep the traffic in the turn lane from having interference with people, bikers or pedestrians. He mentioned an accident last year that occurred where someone was hit crossing U.S. #1 coming out of there. That whole issue is something that has been in place. There is stronger enforcement this year than in the past mainly because you have the Dollar General on the north side that is now looking for its C.O. in the next couple of weeks. There is a turn-lane that has been approved that puts moving traffic that much closer to the front of the No Name. He then referenced Item 8 where for certain events they close off Boston Road to keep the traffic from going down to Riverside Drive and keep traffic where it should be. There is a paved ingress and egress that goes directly into the No Name that is perfectly functional and that is what they are supposed to be doing. He then referred to Item 15 – motorcycle parking along U.S. #1 during heavy attendance is not permitted and must be removed to offsite areas for safety reasons. The offsite areas they have either rented or gotten permission to use Dollar General or they continue to use the west side of U.S. #1. There are lights that help you cross U.S. #1. There are no lights to help you cross Boston, which is dark. That is an issued to be addressed. City Manager Hooper stated historically these special activity permits have been a problem. They have had many public hearings in which the citizens are fussing that the noise and the motorcycles in the neighborhood is not something they want. He feels they have compromised and tried to find a way to work with everybody trying to come up with a solution that works. As times change and events change, as that whole intersection gets commercialized, you have more trips in and out. This is the result. This is Page 8 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 commercialization of somebody that has a site plan as a commercial site right adjacent and for safety reasons that is how the planning for Dollar General was completed by their engineer. He further explained the reasons for the mountable curb/mountable median and it being a normal, typical DOT type median. You don’t see many in the City. You have a commercial establishment that has no access to U.S. #1. They had to get a permit to put the turn lane in. What Mr. Girvan is describing to you is the actual building is in the DOT right-of-way. He had a conversation with Mr. Girvan earlier. If DOT would allow, and it is done in Port Orange, Port Orange obtains a permit from DOT that says they can let them use as a special activity their right-of- way for a period of time. He had no issues with that. That is a safety issue that if it is allowed to occur it puts the City in jeopardy, it puts Mr. Girvan in jeopardy as well as the traveling public trying to make that corner with bikers coming in and out late and dark Mr. Girvan stated there is only one entrance now. There isn’t a second entrance that has been blocked so that whole parking lot is enclosed. It’s not fifteen feet, it’s fifteen feet right to the grass. You’ve probably got about twenty or thirty feet to the door. They aren’t asking to take the barrier down at the end of the parking lot. They are asking to be able to park back in the parking lot. He mentioned the businesses on U.S. #1 to the south and the parking being right on the street. They are way up. There is no safety hazard whatsoever. Councilwoman Rhodes clarified Mr. Girvan wasn’t asking for the motorcycles to leave on Boston Road. He was asking for parking but they would egress out of the one entrance onto U.S. #1. Mr. Girvan stated he wasn’t asking for Boston Road. Councilwoman Lichter went to Port Orange a couple of times and looked at how they are set up. She contacted City Manager Hooper to ask him how they managed to do that when you weren’t allowed to put the cars in front of the establishment. Just over to the right facing it. He informed her a special permit is required and the owner of the establishment has to ask for that. It’s granted all the way down Port Orange. Mr. Girvan stated it’s a little different situation. He spoke of the Last Resort and the old Squeeze Inn getting permits to actually park alongside the street. They are not on the street. They are way back Page 9 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 in on a parking lot they have had for so long. It is a State right-of-way. Their building is on a State right-of- way. Councilwoman Lichter asked what the harm would be of the establishment to ask for the permit so they could park there. Mr. Girvan stated they are in the middle of Bike Week and they are going to have a lot of traffic at the end of the week. If the City waives and lets them park there the rest of the week, he will get a permit that they will be parking there all the time. He had two calls into the County today, to DOT. The decision maker will not be in until tomorrow. Councilwoman Lichter stated it is discouraging to turn in there or know they are operating. She stated it is a business in this City and it is the only one where she sees white plastic poles in front of it and she thinks that is very discouraging. When you have the yellow police tape, it looks like they are keeping people away. She mentioned three bikes in front of her passing it because they didn’t know that the bikes were parked before the business. She feels if there is anything they can do to help, since they gave a permit for the business to operate, to have the business operate and not lose money, they should do it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the only problem she has with that is if they are parking there, there’s got to be something that will not allow them onto Boston Road. Mr. Girvan stated the tape is there. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she knows now, if the tape comes down and they are allowed to park there, with that abutment there the only way they have to go is down Boston Road and they don’t want that. Mr. Girvan stated they can’t get through the barriers and they have it all taped off. He has dedicated six to ten security guards for parking so they wouldn’t have any problems. They can’t get out on that end. That is why they are enclosed in there. He agreed to get with DOT tomorrow but it is just a time shuffle. He will get it permanently that they can park in front of the business permanently, in the parking lot. It is very safe. They aren’t complaining about the barricades. The more safety for them the better and for their patrons. They are complaining because he feels when you go by it doesn’t look like anybody is there. Page 10 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Councilman Vincenzi questioned there being two issues, the parking and the cement median. Mr. Girvan confirmed this. Councilman Vincenzi stated he went down Saturday and Sunday and watched people move through the roadways. What he is asking for is parking for ten or fifteen bikes by the front door. He feels this isn’t a safety issue. It’s true they are in the right-of-way but the whole building is in the right-of-way. He has complained about parking but he didn’t think he hasn’t complained about parking against the building and fence. He was complaining when they encroached on the road. Mr. Girvan stated the barriers are a big thing. It encloses everything and it puts them fifteen or twenty feet back. He compared their establishment to all the businesses on U.S. #1 and feels they are way up there compared to anybody else. Councilman Vincenzi felt they needed to discuss and take care of one problem at a time. City Manager Hooper described for Council this special activity permit was issued at a public hearing and they sent out public notices. They had advertising and they had public comment. To modify that, according to City Attorney Rosenthal, they would have to redo the public hearing and go through the process and they don’t have the opportunity to do that to match his request to try to immediately solve that. He suggested if Mr. Girvan gets a letter tomorrow from DOT that says they park in the right-of-way, they just ignore enforcement of that. Mayor Thomas asked how they would supercede DOT. City Manager Hooper informed him they’re not. The only way they have an enforcement arm is just what they did. They put the white pilings on. The tape came off because somebody took down a few of them. It was already starting to occur that they were being broken off and pulled out then the tape came up as a means to show where they were and to stop that from occurring. Mr. Girvan stated if he goes to DOT tomorrow and it’s a paper shuffle, they would be all week without parking there. If DOT is going to give him a waiver and they are talking about having things in a permit, if DOT gives you a permit and they won’t worry about the permit and the public, what is the difference on voting on it now and saying they could use it for the week. City Manager Hooper stated they voted on it at a public hearing and there is a Page 11 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 process to get there. To not go back through the same process to modify it becomes a legal issue. Councilman Vincenzi stated in years past he has complained about noise, parking and everything there is to complain about the No Name. He was there last year and the year before complaining about parking and he went up to the Police Officers and said something and he shrugged his shoulders and said they are doing it all the time and questioned what they could do. What is the difference between that and the Council allowing him to park fifteen or twenty bikes by the front door? Last year and the year before they could disregard it. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they didn’t disregard it, the Police did. Councilman Vincenzi stated now all of a sudden they are cracking down. Now they are saying they can’t change it without the proper public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter stated if the City called the DOT tomorrow would they be able to respond faster and send a fax letting the City know it is okay. City Manager Hooper stated he was sure they would but they are going to want an application. Mr. Girvan stated they wouldn’t get it done tomorrow. He asked what they would charge any patron for parking in the right-of-way that is not a violation of any State Statute. City Manager Hooper stated there is a State Statute and that is what DOT looked at. When they put up the no parking signs, in year’s past when there wasn’t a turn lane and there wasn’t a commercial on that side, they tried to do the best they could to work with the ability to have people park. When they held the public hearing for this particular issue, he stressed as hard as he could that enforcement was going to be strong. Mr. Girvan asked City Manager Hooper which State Statute he was talking about. City Manager Hooper informed him State Statute 316. Mr. Girvan stated 316 is basic and broad. It’s the whole book. He then asked for the number. He talked to the FHP today and they read through every statute. Mayor Thomas stated they have a bunch of stuff to go over and he informed Mr. Girvan they would take care of him at the end of the meeting. There are some people there. He would be there as long as they needed him to be. He suggested they take care of the other stuff because he sees this isn’t going to be easy. Page 12 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Shannon Ruby Julian , Environmental Services Inc., 1625 Taylor Road, Port Orange, informed Council she was addressing them as a Committee Chairman for a committee that was formed out of the Volusia County Association for Responsible Developers. It came to their attention that the City is looking to revise the Land Development Code and she understands that with pending development. She suggested they hold a half-day workshop where they would bring in and pay for government and private sector speakers to address all of the issues the Council has before them such as affordable housing, height restrictions, what has worked and what hasn’t throughout the State of Florida. She submitted a proposed agenda to the Council with a proposed outline and the speakers they have looked at and talked to that would be interested in helping to provide this. The main goal they have is to help facilitate decisions between the Council, the Mayor and management. If the Council would approve that, they would be happy to give them that workshop, free of charge as a public service back to them. Councilwoman Lichter stated they did have Clay Henderson there as a speaker to go over Smart Growth with them, which addresses many of the things Ms. Julian was saying. She mentioned prior meetings with the Chamber. She would like to take a general consensus if Ms. Julian thinks there were things that were not covered that they will cover. Ms. Julian stated that was fine. Mayor Thomas stated Clay Henderson suggested they would do this for them. Ms. Julian stated he is involved in this Committee and he wasn’t sure that the message was received. She works throughout the County and other counties that also has to deal with going between local government and State issues and there is a gap in many of the cities ordinances and they don’t want to see the City have conflicting ordinances in their books that cause problems for everyone that has to deal with them, including the City Manager. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Julian if she has presented this to Flagler County and asked her if she is aware that they have right now ongoing issues and comments and things going on with the Charter for height restrictions. Ms. Julian informed her they are aware of what is going on in Flagler County. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they have presented a workshop to them. Ms. Julian stated they are the Volusia County Association for Responsible Developers. Page 13 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Councilwoman Rogers stated Ms. Julian said other counties. Ms. Julian stated she has personally worked in other counties. The FCARD has also provided workshops in Palm Coast, which is where some of their speakers have come from year’s back. Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Julian if she was aware they had a Land Use Workshop on a Saturday and that public was open to come to that at that time. Ms. Julian stated she didn’t see that advertised. No one on the Committee was aware of it until it was brought to VCARD’s attention. It is her understanding that Land Development Code issues are usually brought up in the second quarter. Councilwoman Rogers feels whether it is brought up in the first quarter or the second quarter is irrelevant. They have a new Council and they have a lot of growth going on in the city as does the State of Florida and the State has a lot of issues with water and the environment and with the development coming down the pike right now they have to have something to support what they believe. Ms. Julian stated she understands that. Councilwoman Rogers informed her she wasn’t in favor of any more workshops or presentations. She feels Clay Henderson and Glenn Storch have spent enough time with them. She thinks they need to go forward. She stated they had the Land Use Workshop a month and a half ago and questioned when they would have that back to them so they can do something. City Manager Hooper informed her the schedule is the modifications to the Land Development Code will go to the Planning & Zoning Board in April. They are the first hearing board. They will get drafts of that prior to when it goes to them. He mentioned the Council seeing a strike-through and underline version and new language to the Land Development Code sections that are pertinent. He advised the Council to let staff finish that, send that to Council and send it to the Planning & Zoning Board and then after they see it at the first reading, they could decide whether they want another outside agency’s review and comments. That is a normal process they do. They comment on what is presented to them. If they don’t want to go through a work session of someone talking to them, at least they are giving them a work product and let them make comments, tell them the pros and cons and there are some of both. The Council will hear it through the whole public hearing process. He feels they are very close to having those finished. They deal with heights, the densities they Page 14 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 have talked about, net verses gross, compensating storage in a flood plain and minimize lot size. Councilwoman Rogers stated and it will be the lot widths depending on what type of soil it is. City Manager Hooper informed her above the 100 year and below the 100 year. Councilwoman Lichter asked about affordable housing. City Manager Hooper stated they haven’t gotten into much of that. That is a much larger issue than they could tackle today. He commented on inclusionary zoning that is being tried in Tallahassee and talked about in other places. Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Julian if the County employs her. Ms. Julian informed her she works for a private firm. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned this being a volunteer group that wants to do this for them. Ms. Julian informed her that was correct. City Manager Hooper stated VCARD is made up of governments and development consultants. It’s a large group that meets and talks of a lot of different opportunities with the Code. It’s a long-term organization, which they have participated from a staff level off and on. They have many consultants that go through their process. That has been a primary function and Smart Growth is one of their latest products that came out of that. Councilman Vincenzi doesn’t mind having another workshop but he doesn’t think much of Smart Growth and if it is going to be another Smart Growth workshop, he isn’t interested. If they will tell them stuff they haven’t heard before or don’t know, he would be willing to entertain it. Dave Castagnacci , Director for VCARD, stated they periodically do this with local governments throughout both counties. They just had an educational program in Flagler County on coastal development. The speakers provide insights on planning concepts. It is to help the Council more hone in on what is going on within the community. It is to give the Council ideas and get some lines of communication going. He feels it would be good for the Council to see Fred Meeker, who is a very good speaker from St. John’s, to understand the interaction between St. John’s and the local government and the permitting process for developments. He asked for some direction if they do want them to move forward because they do have a committee that is trying to put the program together. Page 15 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Hooper when they come up with some of the new ideas for the Land Development Code, do they go through an environmental body other than the Council to be evaluated or checked or approved. City Manager Hooper commented on the Comp Plan going through that process. The Land Development Code is a legislative booklet that the Council creates. It’s how development is going to be handled and done within the City. It does not have an outside formal review process of any kind. They use other existing codes that are working somewhere else and they use those to go by. This was created by a consultant five to seven years ago and has been modified almost on an annual basis. As issues come up, they modify the Code. Mayor Thomas thought they were here because they heard Edgewater was making amendments to the Land Development Code and they wanted to present Council with some of their ideas and other ideas that have worked in other cities. Mr. Castagnacci stated a majority of the larger governments in Volusia and Flagler County they have worked with when they have been doing land code updates. He spoke of meeting with staff prior to the process moving forward to the elected officials. He commented on the people in their group being familiar with the process as much as the folks on the public end. It is just to give ideas and different perspectives that folks within the City staff might not realize when they are drafting it. It is to make sure they come out with a quality product when it’s done that they won’t be having problems to try and fix glitches two months later. Mayor Thomas stated what he is hearing from his Council as a general consensus so far is they have been in workshops th ever since they took office on November 8. He feels they are tired of workshops and questioned if they don’t ask them to come back right away can they ask them to come back later if they wanted to do that. Mr. Castagnacci informed him sure. As the Council is going through the land code drafting process, if they can work with them on reviewing proposed changes and allow them to offer input early on in the process, he feels helps later on. They have worked with staff’s before where members of their group have proposed making changes that have been stricter than what they had because they were able to show them how it would be a more productive document. Page 16 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Mayor Thomas stated they would let them know if they are interested. Councilwoman Rhodes asked how long the process takes. She felt City Manager Hooper had a good point. When it’s done being written, if they looked it over, that would probably be terrific. She asked how long that would hold up the process. Mr. Castagnacci stated he wasn’t sure how the Council was planning on doing the process. They can get a group together to sit with staff and review different aspects of the Code before they start moving it through the process, which he feels helps avoid conflicts later on. There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:00 p.m. and reconvened at 8:14 p.m. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS nd A.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-05, J.C. Carder requesting annexation of 28.56+ acres of land located north of Godfrey Road and west of the Indian River Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2006-O-05 into the record. City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He asked City Clerk Wadsworth if she had the future land use and zoning that Development Services Director Darren Lear had. City Manager Hooper stated Councilwoman Rogers asked that they do some research so they could present Council with when it’s in the County what it’s current land use designation is and what it could be used for. Mr. Lear went on to explain the land use and zoning in the County for this property. City Manager Hooper explained this is very similar to what would be our low density residential. He mentioned the City having certain lot widths for each zoning category and this being much more open-ended. Councilwoman Lichter asked what is being planned for the river. Mr. Lear stated it changes week to week. We haven’t had any applications submitted for any development. Page 17 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 City Manager Hooper then spoke of people in the County wanting to be able to do the same thing in the City with their property that they could do in the County. City Manager Hooper stated staff would probably tell Council low density residential is what they are looking for. They could have some commercial closer to water if they could work that out. He didn’t think they would because of there not being good road access into some of that. Mr. Carder has described to them anywhere from condos to single family and a marina. He hasn’t seen an application that gives him a real hint as to what could go in. He mentioned there being single family in Godfrey Estates that have between seventy and seventy-five foot lots. He also mentioned a subdivision that is being developed coming into the County that has sixty or seventy foot lots. Mr. Lear informed him he thought they were seventy and seventy-five. City Manager Hooper mentioned the road being paved and there being a big discussion about how this integrates with the property adjacent and compatibility with what is already existing in Godfrey Estates. He didn’t feel they would be looking at any more high density because he didn’t feel Council would approve that, which he informed Council was his opinion. He thought they would be seeing single-family coming in there. Maybe a little bit of water frontage that had a community dock or privately owned marina for these folks only. That was his expectation. Councilwoman Rogers stated her understanding is whatever the zoning is in the County that it comes into the City with the same zoning. She commented on the low density in the County being much different than what it is in the City. City Manager Hooper explained in the County it has a zoning and land use. When it comes into the City, none of that counts. It only counts when you are comparing. It has the same zoning until the Council changes it. It will come back to Council to change it to do something with it. They can’t develop anything until they come back to Council. They cannot change the land use, they can’t change the zoning, they won’t get a plat and won’t get any development approvals until this come back to Council to modify the Land Development Code and the Comp Plan Amendment. Mayor Thomas stated that was pretty liberal zoning and questioned why Mr. Carder would want to be annexed into the Page 18 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 City. City Manager Hooper informed him water and sewer. In the County he has no water and sewer and can’t develop. All along the U.S. #1 corridor the City has water and sewer. The City controls growth. If something is going to grow and Council will control how it is done, they don’t get water and sewer and can’t develop except with septic tanks and individual wells and that puts them on 2 ½ acre lots. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizens spoke: Chris Balmer , 148 William Street, asked if Red Fish Cove, which is in the County, is on 2 ½ acre lots. City Manager Hooper informed him it is on larger ones. The County purchased some capacity from us but we didn’t catch that in time and didn’t force that annexation. Mr. Balmer feels it seems like to annex the property into Edgewater would be a no-brainer. He feels the reasons the City is seeing annexations is because in the past the City has been great to work with from a development perspective. Everyone he knows is feeling the Council out right now to see what it is going to be like in the future. The real issue is not the fact that we should absolutely annex this in then we control it 100%, whatever is developed on it. Properties like this in the future may not want to annex into the City and may want to develop 45-foot lots or mobile home parks through the county. He feels it seems like they are taking a little bit of an anti-development, no Smart Growth, I don’t want to see things built around me, and he is concerned with Red Fish Cove and the pieces of property that are County that will be developed and use our local stores, schools, roads, traffic lights. We will have traffic and congestion. The difference is we won’t realize tax revenue and the City will have zero control over development. The County’s code is very liberal and you could very well have a mobile home park there. Yes we absolutely want this property in Edgewater control and we want to continue to have good relationships with groups like VCARD and the Builders Associations because we want then to want to annex into the City. Otherwise they will go straight to the County and develop whatever they want and it will still have the same impact that we have if it is in the City and we are collecting tax revenue. Page 19 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Pat Card , 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated ditto. He has said that how many times. Get it in here, get it under our thumb, figure out what they want to do with it, ask the developer for it and then go get it. Dot Carlson , 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD, feels the reason these properties are trying to get in is because of urban growth boundaries. They seem to be able to get more use out of their property once they have come into the City. The problem is once this comes into the City and they pay their impact fees but it’s going to cost the citizens in Edgewater right now for some infrastructure. This is still going to cost the taxpayers living because growth does not pay for itself. They do it. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-05, J.C. Carder requesting annexation of 28.56+ acres of land located north of Godfrey Road and west of the Indian River, second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . nd Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-04, James Morris, B.2 agent for Charles and Phyllis Barry, requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include 5.04+ acres of land located south of SR 442 and west of Old Mission Road as Commercial with Conservation Overlay City Manager Hooper informed the Council this needed to be st continued to a date certain, May 1. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue Ord. 2006-O-04 until May 1, 2006, second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . C. Res. No. 2006-R-02, establishing a Stormwater Basin Fee of $100 per acre for any building permit, subdivision plat, site plan or development order for all development within the Ariel Canal Basin Paralegal Matusick read Res. 2006-R-02 into the record. Page 20 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas questioned how come only $100 and asked who came up with the $100. City Manager Hooper informed him it is the math. You put $150,000 divided by 1,500 acres and it comes up with $100. Mayor Thomas felt $100 was pretty cheap. City Manager Hooper informed him it is cheap. That is only the study phase. They will come back and say a certain canal needs to be fixed and there’s pipes put in so we will be knocking on the developer’s door saying if you want that subdivision approved here are the drainage improvements you have to do. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they have budget overruns, which sometimes occurs, that will then be added into this. City Manager Hooper informed her if it is, they will come back and say they have to adjust the fee at some point. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Dominic Capria , 606 Topside Circle, stated it sounds like the developer will be building subdivisions, which will have associations. Usually when this happens, the ponds and the canal structures are deeded to the associations. City Manager Hooper informed him that will still occur. Mr. Capria stated so that makes the associations responsible and not the City. He feels the City is going to charge the developer $100 per acre and he’s not going to pay it and it’s going to go into the price of the homes, which means the price of homes will raise, the taxes will raise. Their taxes are going to raise because of it because now they are assessed at market value. He knows legislation was passed Save our Homes, no more than 3% increase but what people don’t realize is the dollar amount is more than 3% because what happens is when the market value goes up, it’s 3% of the market value, not 3% of what you will pay in your taxes. By doing this to the developer, he will raise the prices of the homes and the City will get more taxes because the prices are higher but that money does not come back to the homeowners like last year $72,000 plus should come back to the homeowners. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they didn’t do something like this, the City would be paying for it and passing it back Page 21 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 to the taxpayers so our taxes would go up anyway. Mr. Capria feels they should get a strict statement from the developer that he should pay for this and he should. He didn’t know how they could control it but not put it in the price of the homes. He feels they need to do something because their taxes are going to go up because of it. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2006-R-02, establishing a Stormwater Basin Fee of $100 per acre for any building permit, subdivision plat, site plan or development order for all development within the Ariel Canal Basin, second by Councilwoman Rogers . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments at this time. 8. CONSENT AGENDA There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. 9. OTHER BUSINESS There was no Other Business to be discussed at this time. Mayor Thomas announced that they would now go back to the discussion regarding Mr. Girvan’s concerns. Councilwoman Rogers asked if she could make a comment before they did that. Her comment was regarding what was said by Mr. Balmer and Mr. Card regarding the annexation. As a City Councilperson, every time an applicant comes before the Council and they are wanting to annex into the City, it does sound good and she understands if they annex the property into the City they will have control but they would not be doing their job unless they ask questions. They don’t know what the plans are for this property. Right now there is a lawsuit against the City because of what someone is wanting to do to the property. They have heard it enough that it’s a no-brainer that they need to look at annexing the property so that the City has control of it, they are aware of that but they do need to ask Page 22 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 questions. It’s information and the public that is sitting here and the public that reads the minutes will feel more comfortable with the Council because they are asking questions instead of just saying yes every time. Mayor Thomas dittoed her comments. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they cannot make a motion legally. She would be really opposed to instructing the Chief, which they can’t do by the Charter, or the City Manager or anybody else to disregard the law. She suggested letting City Manager Hooper handle this and he knows how the Council feels about it and she feels it needs to be placed in his hands to deal with it. She feels they don’t have another option at this point in time. Councilwoman Rogers commented on this being approved at a public hearing initially. She felt bad. Mr. Girvan stated he felt bad himself because it is coming out of their pocket. Councilwoman Rogers stated they are looking at the letter of the law and the Attorney has advised them. Mr. Girvan asked how long City Manager Hooper has been here. City Manager Hooper informed him seven years. Mr. Girvan stated this is an on-going thing. The first thing they had taken over this property was a bunch of fees they were charged that usually you are supposed to pay at the beginning. He feels they are getting nailed left and right. City Manager Hooper informed Mr. Girvan he knew that wasn’t true. Mr. Girvan asked if he could finish. He feels City Manager Hooper has a very big conflict with the No Name due to Mr. Girvan seeing him numerous times up in the office counting money as a City official being up there with the ex-Mayor and there is going to be a lot of things coming out in the laundry because this isn’t over and they aren’t going to sit there and take it. He is going to go to DOT and get whatever he has to get from the DOT. He asked City Manager Hooper for a Statute number of what laws they are violating by parking there. If it’s any danger to any traffic whatsoever. If they park there and they get ticketed and towed, they better be willing to do that throughout the City. There are parking signs all along their street, down U.S. #1 in front of their street, all the way down Boston. Now they have been added, because they complained, all the way down Boston. They better be putting parking signs all over the City in front of businesses and they better not be parked up against the street. Don’t go after them if they aren’t going to go Page 23 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 after other people. He’s got issues with City Manager Hooper and he is going to start showing up at every Council meeting and he is going to watch City Manager Hooper because he knows he has several conflicts and he informed City Manager Hooper he knew what he was talking about. City Manager Hooper informed him he did not. Mr. Girvan informed him he would find out soon enough. He feels City Manager Hooper is dirty. Councilwoman Lichter informed Mr. Girvan she didn’t feel this was helping his cause in the long run because the Council is concerned about helping him. Mr. Girvan stated and they are trying to work with the City and right now they are in the middle of Bike Week and no one is helping them at all. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed and felt if he would just go back to the No Name she feels this problem would be solved for him to his satisfaction if he would leave this alone. She told him he didn’t know what City Manager Hooper was going to do and didn’t know how it was going to turn out. Mr. Girvan stated he knows where they are at right now. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him he is assuming something. Mr. Girvan stated he isn’t assuming something. Councilwoman Rhodes feels if he does that and he is not satisfied, he can contact the Council and they will put it on an agenda. Right now, their hands are tied. They cannot help him in time to help him this Bike Week but the City Manager can help him. Mr. Girvan stated the City Manager couldn’t help him this week. Councilwoman Rhodes stated he is the only one that can help him this week. Mr. Girvan questioned how he could help him this week. The only one that will help him right now is DOT and he needs a Statute. Mr. Girvan mentioned a comment made by Councilwoman Rhodes where she questioned why they couldn’t just drive over the concrete median. Mr. Girvan questioned if she said that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated big trucks do that all the time. Mr. Girvan stated that is why they have the police writing tickets. You can’t do that. With the concrete median, the blueprint on the median, the one they saw tonight, that was the first thing he has ever seen on a blueprint. Their attorney has a blueprint and they never had concrete median on a blueprint. He stated City Manager Hooper said the reason that median was put there was because the entranceway was going to be down a little bit but then they changed their mind and moved it back. He questioned why the median wasn’t changed at that point. City Manager Hooper stated he said that was a portion of the reason. Page 24 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 Councilwoman Rogers stated Mr. Girvan is indicating to them the City Attorney has advised them. She asked if the City Attorney could put that in writing and mention the Florida Statute and get a letter over to Mr. Girvan. City Manager Hooper stated he certainly could. Councilwoman Rogers feels this is necessary. Mr. Girvan stated give me a Statute that will stand up in court. He is going to go to DOT. Councilwoman Rogers feels if they can provide this letter, she didn’t think DOT could overrule something like that. Mr. Girvan stated DOT could overrule the City. Councilwoman Rogers stated if they couldn’t provide it, it would help Mr. Girvan. Mr. Girvan again stated DOT could overrule the City. Once DOT makes the decision, it sits. Councilwoman Lichter suggested a sign be placed out front welcoming the bikers, something that will catch their eye instead of the white posts, and feels this might be helpful. Mr. Girvan stated they just took down a sign off the top of the building because of the sign ordinances. Councilwoman Lichter stated everybody in the City got the same thing. She informed Mr. Girvan in the end it would help him if there was going to be a legal matter that he doesn’t make accusations accusing people. She didn’t think that would help in any legal matter that Mr. Girvan might move forward. She then suggested if Mr. Girvan calls DOT or City Manager Hooper calls DOT maybe they could get some type of temporary permission. Mr. Girvan stated they really didn’t want it temporary, they wanted a permanent one. Councilwoman Lichter stated they are talking immediate. She knows what he wants but they are trying to help him this week. Councilwoman Lichter then stated there were two issues mentioned by Councilman Vincenzi. One is the median and that Mr. Girvan says it’s a hindrance and that they can’t park. She wanted to go back to the map and look at that situation because apparently they can go down the front and bring their deliveries in, which she didn’t realize when she went to the No Name. She then mentioned either Mr. Girvan or City Manager Hooper contacting DOT tomorrow. Mr. Girvan stated he would be contacting them in the morning and that it wouldn’t be a problem. She again mentioned putting a sign up to let them know they are open might be helpful. She then asked to be shown the alternate route they can go in. Mr. Girvan stated there is only one entrance. He stated there is no way they can get a Page 25 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 delivery truck in there right now. With all their parking in the front and having to park in the back and these guys coming in with huge semis makes it difficult. City Manager Hooper pointed out where they can load and unload. He pointed out with the layout they can’t do it. If they did the vendors and laid it out, they could pull in, load and unload and pull out. DOT’s view is U.S.#1 is their primary ingress and egress. Mr. Girvan stated they weren’t talking about DOT on this. City Manager Hooper informed him he knew he wasn’t but that is what Councilwoman Lichter asked him. What they are seeing is a non-conforming site plan. This is fifty years old. There is a building in the right- of-way. It has no drainage. It meets none of the City’s current conditions. There is not an approved ingress and egress along Boston Road. He commented on having a commercial development that changes Boston Road. Boston is no longer a two-lane road, it is three lanes. Councilwoman Lichter questioned what Mr. Girvan is supposed to do if he gets deliveries tomorrow. City Manager Hooper stated whatever he is doing now or he can pull in the front. Mr. Girvan stated pull in and carry 500 cases of beer. There is no way. That is ridiculous. Mayor Thomas asked who designed and approved the concrete median on Boston. City Manager Hooper stated the engineer for Dollar General did the design. Mayor Thomas then asked who did the final approval, DOT or the City. City Manager Hooper informed him both and explained who approved what. Mayor Thomas asked if they have another concrete median in Edgewater similar to that. City Manager Hooper informed him he didn’t know of any. They have nowhere else that a commercial establishment doesn’t have access to the main road. The Land Development Code discourages any kind of use along a residential street. It also mandates that Dollar General has to be provided legal access. He further commented on having a situation like on Boston Road. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Girvan they were lucky in the past to be able to park the bikes on the lot where the Dollar General is. Probably in the future, since they aren’t open for business now, they have allowed them to do that. He has been very fortunate about Mr. McAllister across the street allowing him to park vehicles over there. When somebody moves in next to you, you have to make some allowances and some changes. There is plenty of room to go into the entranceway off of U.S. #1, to pull a beer truck Page 26 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 in there and turn it around when you don’t have all the vendors in there. He knows Mr. Girvan is in a bind right now and they need to settle this and evidently he has some disagreements with City Manager Hooper. Mayor Thomas stated he is trying to define Plan B on how it will appease Mr. Girvan and be legal. He further stated Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they let City Manager Hooper do that and in any other situation he thinks that is an excellent idea. Since he has some disagreements with City Manager Hooper then what are they going to do. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested letting Fire Chief Barlow handle it if it is okay with City Manager Hooper. They as a Council cannot direct staff to do anything. If it is agreeable with City Manager Hooper, maybe Fire chief Barlow could. City Manager Hooper stated that puts undue burden on Fire Chief Barlow. He agreed to meet out there by noon tomorrow and he will have a solution he thinks they will be able to live with and he thinks Mr. Girvan will be able to live with. Mr. Girvan stated they don’t want to hear that the building has been there for fifty years and new buildings are moving in and we are going to shut your entranceway. He mentioned the delivery entrance not being an approved delivery entrance. What is an approved delivery entrance. Back then there were no prints back then. For them to be on a State right-of-way, obviously someone had to approve it to be there. Mayor Thomas agreed to go with City Manager Hooper to the No Name. Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t feel that was a good idea. Councilwoman Lichter stated the Mayor represents all of us. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it doesn’t have anything to do with the Mayor and under any other circumstances she would say go along. It also makes the Mayor and the Council part of it and she feels they need to stay out of it right now. Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Girvan if he felt comfortable meeting with City Manager Hooper tomorrow. Mr. Girvan informed him he doesn’t feel comfortable with City Manager Hooper at all. Councilwoman Lichter stated then that is the end of it. There is nothing else they can do. Mr. Girvan stated he would hit up DOT tomorrow to see what he could do. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested he meet with him, hear his solution and then make his decision. Mr. Girvan again stated he would call DOT tomorrow and he will try to get any permit he’s got to park in. Anything else they Page 27 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 will just handle legally. Councilwoman Lichter informed him that was his choice because they tried to offer a solution. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, felt Mr. Girvan has applied for a permit that was approved. Irregardless of the age of his building, if it is conforming or non- conforming, the permit was issued. He should be allowed to operate without conferring with anybody else. The man pays his taxes and is being forced to obtain an attorney. She didn’t feel this was fair. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her this permit has all of this in the permit. They are trying to get around the permit without a public hearing to help him. Councilwoman Rogers stated these items were in the initial conditions that were up on the overhead. Mayor Thomas stated he isn’t complying with the specifications of the permit. City Manager Hooper explained they have gone through and described this will be the result of no parking in the right-of-way. Councilwoman Rogers stated there were conditions that were spelled out. Councilwoman Lichter stated she didn’t envision it being so unwelcomingly. Mayor Thomas stated he has been there and you can get a beer truck in there and unload it but you can’t right now because of all the vendors being set up. He doesn’t want to change and he is going to have to change. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned what would happen when there is something else built on the property across the street and they can’t park there. Councilwoman Rogers felt for the defense of the City they need to have the City Attorney do a letter. 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. Paralegal Matusick Paralegal Matusick mentioned the information that was handed out regarding River Oaks. City Manager Hooper stated there’s a lot of pages but all it is is a timely response and they are asking the court to Page 28 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 toll the period in which they can respond and to dismiss the case because the Council hasn’t taken final action. C. City Manager Hooper City Manager Hooper went over the notice for the executive meeting. He informed the Council of the process they will follow at this meeting. The meeting will be held Monday at 6:00 p.m. After that they will go into a work session to talk about Reflections and Washington Park. Councilwoman Rhodes asked about a time schedule for both of the presentations. City Manager Hooper felt it would be less than an hour for Reflections but with Washington Park he felt they would be telling the Council how it works and the Council will let him know if they want to do it or not. They are looking for an assessment similar to Florida Shores and expansion so that will be a short more philosophical conception. Unless there is a lot of discussion or questions, they should be out by 8:30 p.m. or 9:00 p.m City Manager Hooper then commented on the agreement he handed out for City Manager Services. Councilman Vincenzi indicated to Paralegal Matusick that he would like this as a future agenda item and brought up to him a couple of points that are in the contract under Section 7 defining what PEC, which he is quarter owner of, defines who they work for in Volusia County. He then went over that list. The question about private development. There is a list that Councilman Vincenzi asked for of everybody that has done business in the last three years. PEC has never worked for any of them and doesn’t plan to. Councilman Vincenzi stated for the record he wants this on the agenda for discussion to discuss any possible renegotiating. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could discuss it now. Councilman Vincenzi didn’t feel this was a good idea. Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn’t prepared. Councilman Vincenzi stated what he described to City Manager Hooper was he wanted it put on the agenda for discussion to allow the Council the opportunity to put out their views about discussing it. If it is arrived at a consensus that night that the majority of the Council wants to discuss renegotiating his contract, then at that time they can schedule another agenda item. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned if they could make that consensus now. A Page 29 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 consensus to discuss would take five minutes. Councilman Vincenzi stated it hasn’t been advertised and it’s not even on the agenda. He was just mentioning it. Councilwoman Lichter asked Councilman Vincenzi if this was something three of them were involved in in the beginning. She feels the two new Councilpeople need to take a look at it. Mayor Thomas stated he would like some time to look at it. Councilman Vincenzi felt it was fair that everybody had the opportunity to look at it and decide if they want to talk about it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then there is a consensus to put it on the agenda. Councilman Vincenzi stated not just about Item 7. This rendition says that I have concerns about Item 7. He would like everybody to look at the entire contract and then come up with any discussion items they would like to talk about at that time. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if Councilman Vincenzi felt like he needed that. She didn’t. Councilman Vincenzi wanted to make it clear that that is what his intent was. Not just to talk about Item 7 in the contract. City Manager Hooper asked Councilman Vincenzi if he wanted to pick a particular date. Councilman Vincenzi stated he th was hoping to get it on the agenda for March 20. If everybody thinks there is enough time between now and then to actually discuss the terms of it, what they like and th what they don’t like about it, March 20 is fine. City Manager Hooper commented on having the rehearing of the th condominiums on March 20and it is going to be a long meeting. Councilwoman Rogers felt they had enough to do. Councilman Vincenzi stated the only conflict he has is he rd wouldn’t be able to attend the April 3 meeting so it can’t be that meeting. Mayor Thomas suggested they do it April th 17 and take a couple of land uses off and postpone them. City Manager Hooper agreed to make that happen. Councilwoman Lichter suggested Mayor Thomas work out with City Manager Hooper what is necessary to handle that night and what is not. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE There were no Citizen Comments at this time. A. Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed. Page 30 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:10 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 31 of 31 Council Regular Meeting March 6, 2006