03-06-2006 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 6, 2006
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
Paralegal Robin Matusick Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of February 13, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the February 13, 2006
minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. Mayor Thomas presenting a plaque to Robert
Garthwaite for his 32 years of dedicated
volunteer service to the City of Edgewater
Mayor Thomas presented Robert Garthwaite with a plaque for
his volunteer service to the community.
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Councilwoman Lichter spoke of serving for six years with
Mr. Garthwaite on the Planning and Zoning Board.
4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the MPO Workshop she
attended last week. She commented on not knowing how
expensive it was to build one mile of road. She was told it
costs around $7 million and that seeming to be high
compared to the fact the MPO only receives $4 million per
year for funding. A road that is going to be built through
the MPO process needs the Federal and State funds. She has
been made aware that Volusia County is considered a Charter
County in the State of Florida. There is a bill right now,
if it gets passed, where there could be some funding coming
our way. One of the things she is trying to work on is
some sidewalks in the Florida Shores area. She would like
to get sidewalks on a few of the roads that are leading to
the elementary school. She also mentioned the possibility
of additional funding. She spoke of still being in the
learning process and most things taking anywhere from seven
to fifteen years with the MPO, depending on what it is.
Mayor Thomas stated Councilwoman Rogers requested to be put
on the MPO and he serves on many boards and they have to
get up there and fight for this money and that is what she
is doing for us. He expressed his appreciation for what
she is doing for the City.
Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on what a wonderful person
Mr. Garthwaite is. She has asked things of him at times
when he has had personal issues that were going on in his
life and he still found the time to do what she asked him
to do for the City. She couldn’t thank him enough.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she was at the No Name Saturday
night but was going to make her comments during that agenda
item.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned Mr. Garthwaite being a very
special Edgewater resident. She also visited the No Name
on Sunday morning but also was going to save her comments
until that agenda item.
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Mayor Thomas commented on the meetings he has been to. He
is averaging two a day, sometimes six a day. He doesn’t
see how somebody with a full time job can do this and his
hat goes off to the prior Mayor for going to as many
meetings as he did. He met with Environmental Services and
the other part of that crew and this week he meets with the
Police Officers. He has two meetings, one Wednesday and
one Thursday. He will be riding with the Police Officers
on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The only thing he has
left is Environmental Services and he will have that goal
complete. One of his goals was to meet with each
individual City employee and then he will go back and try
to ride with some of the employees and discuss their jobs
and how they do it and the problems they are encountering.
5. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, informed the Council
he was going to talk about his favorite subject, City Hall.
He mentioned the phrase “things happen for the best and for
a reason.” He spoke of getting rid of the mural and
getting rid of the Shuffleboard. He suggested City Hall be
built across the street. He feels Edgewater would be the
envy of all the local cities. If there was a vote on this
tonight, there would be one sure vote. He further
commented on the cost savings due to not having to rent a
location, the $1.5 million to renovate the existing City
Hall could go towards a new one. He also mentioned getting
a matching grant for $1.5 million and the City having $3
million towards a new City Hall. Once the building is
built, they could move from here to across the street. He
suggested this building be demolished and a new Police
Station built. He suggested two or three-story buildings.
He commented on not having to spend any money for land due
to the City already owning the property. He commented on
the money the City spent for the design of a new City Hall
and what a beautiful building it was. He further commented
on having a beautiful view of the river. He feels this has
some merits and he asked the Council and City Manager to
look into it to see if it is a possibility.
Mayor Thomas mentioned working on three possibilities for
City Hall. Some of them they cannot discuss because they
are getting the land pretty cheap. He guaranteed Mr.
Visconti he would be pleasantly surprised.
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Andy Anderson
, Pine Tree Drive, feels something needs to be
done about the garbage and trash pickup. The garbage is
twice a week and if there is a holiday instead of being on
their day it is postponed to the next day. He mentioned
there being a holiday every month of the year except
August. Almost every month they have this switch around
for regular garbage pickup. Where he came from, if the
garbage was to be picked up on Tuesday and Christmas fell
on Tuesday, it got picked up on Christmas. He has talked
to several people and they have never seen it like they do
it in Edgewater. The City was supposed to pickup the trash
in his neighborhood on Wednesday and they didn’t come by
until Friday. He feels it looks like the City is having a
problem handling this. Like it is too much or they don’t
have enough trucks or they don’t have enough people or they
are overloaded. When they postpone it from a Tuesday until
Wednesday, and then they pickup on Friday, on Friday they
are so loaded sometimes they don’t make it at all. He
suggested rather than have it postponed like that, he
doesn’t know why it can’t be picked up on the regular days
like other communities. Mr. Anderson stated as far as the
trash pickup goes it’s only once a week except if there is
a holiday. He spoke of it being a long time around
Christmas and New Year’s to go without your trash being
picked up. He spoke of having a lot of debris now because
of the leaves falling. He asked the Council to consider
this and perhaps together they can come up with a better
solution then what we have now.
City Manager Hooper stated they pick up garbage twice a
week and bagged yard waste once a week. If a holiday were
to occur on Wednesday it’s not picked up until the
following week. That is routine and is done throughout
Florida. He didn’t know where Mr. Anderson was talking
about that it’s not done in Florida. If you were to change
that, they would pay overtime and have a considerable
amount of additional funds of a crew working a holiday. He
has little if any complaints about that sliding of one day.
He spoke of the yard debris and getting behind on cycles.
He spoke of certain times of the year and after storms
there being a tremendous amount and the whole City won’t
get picked up in a day. They come back on the following
day for the bagged yard waste.
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Mr. Anderson stated where they lived before was in Florida
and there it was picked up on the day it was supposed to
get picked up, holiday or not.
Mayor Thomas questioned the yard debris getting picked up
every week. City Manager Hooper stated it gets picked up
on Wednesday. Councilwoman Lichter stated not the loose
yard debris but the bagged and in the can is every week.
Mayor Thomas stated it might be his fault because his day
to meet with Environmental Services was last Wednesday and
they came in thirty minutes early. If it is his fault, he
apologized.
Mr. Anderson stated he didn’t know whose fault it was but
there has been a problem and he thought he would bring it
up and have Council think about it and come up with a
better solution.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
attended the last Council meeting and in the presence of
one of the members of the audience something very
derogatory was said to her and she wished it to be stopped.
She was called a very vulgar name that starts with a W by
one of the City’s Councilwomen and she wants it to stop and
doesn’t want to hear it again or she will be taking legal
action and she knows who it is.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn’t going to comment but
she was threatened that night and they will discuss it
later. She informed Ms. Stoughton she wanted to go to
court, she could certainly could. She was threatened by
Ms. Stoughton and called names as she walked out of here
alone. She was very frightened going home and tonight she
would be accompanied by someone.
Jim Girvan
, No Name Saloon, 2001 S. Ridgewood Avenue,
stated a new management team has been operating the No Name
Saloon since June 2005. They have all worked with the City
of Edgewater and complied to all the requests given to
them, such as painting the fence, landscaping and garbage
relocation. He mentioned being issued a citation for a
noise violation during Octoberfest. He mentioned sound
barriers being placed on the stage in order to prevent
further noise nuisances. These noise barriers have proven
to be successful. Their noise levels for the first three
days of Bike Week are down dramatically. Mr. Anderson has
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informed Code Enforcement the noise levels at the No Name
Saloon have been down significantly. He mentioned the
building being erected north of the No Name altering
several parking features of their establishment. A
concrete median was placed on Boston Road in front of their
delivery entrance causing canceled deliveries, the
inability of fire trucks and emergency vehicles to enter
and major traffic delays. The median also directs all
traffic leaving the No Name Saloon to residential
neighborhoods on Riverside Drive. The major issue of this
concrete median is a safety issue. It was mentioned by a
City official that the curb was in place for safety
purposes. Emergency vehicles are not inhibited from
entering through their delivery entrance because of this
median impeding medical attending their patrons may need.
Nowhere within the City limits is there a median or
mountable curb located on a two-lane street. Recently SR
442 was reconstructed and no concrete medians were placed
there for safety purposes. They know the City doesn’t want
to stop deliveries to their establishment nor cause unsafe
conditions for pedestrians or motorists due tot his median.
Recently no parking signs have been placed on the south
side of Boston Road in front of their side parking lot.
They have no objections to the no parking signs located on
the north side of the road because they know they were
placed there for safety purposes. The signs placed on the
south side of Boston Road completely restrict a good
portion of their parking. Their building was constructed
over fifty years ago, some of which is located on the State
right-of-way. The DOT has placed a turn lane in front of
their establishment as well as placing concrete posts at
their front exit located on Boston Road. These posts have
completely block off all access from Boston Road to their
front parking lot further restricting access to their
building and creating an unsafe parking situation. DOT has
also erected plastic posts along the grass on U.S. #1
preventing all exiting from the front of their building.
The parking in front of the No Name Saloon causes neither
interference with traffic on U.S. #1 nor any hindrance. He
spoke to Supervisor Johnson of the Florida Highway Patrol
and he informed him that parking in front of the building
of their establishment causes no violation of any Florida
State Statute. They were told they could not park in the
right-of-way, which has been their parking lot for over
fifty years. He is sure the City will allow them to begin
parking vehicles in front of their establishment again
because he doesn’t believe the City would intentionally try
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to put them out of business. He has shown all the
Councilmembers, the Mayor and the Chief the changes that
have occurred at the No Name Saloon. They will always
comply with the City’s request and he is sure the City
encourages local businesses to succeed, especially
establishments that help the economy of the City. He
believes there is a conflict of interest with City Manager
Hooper interjecting any comments or discussing in the
dealings of the City and the No Name Saloon due to his
prior involvement with the former management of their
establishment. He asked that City Manager Hooper abstain
any comment and further dealings with businesses between
the City and the No Name Saloon. He then mentioned
pictures they have taken down U.S. #1. Right now the
parking is encaged with all of the posts around it. He
spoke of there being no safety issues whatsoever of them
parking. He feels when you go by the No Name Saloon now
and you see ten or fifteen motorcycles there you think the
place is closed. The Police came and put tape around the
posts they had there that they switched to red tape because
it was crime scene tape they put there and it looked like
someone died in the parking lot.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Girvan he would have to have City
Manager Hooper respond because he is the one that did the
stuff with DOT and the regulations.
City Manager Hooper asked City Clerk Wadsworth to put the
site plan on and informed Council they probably have the
permit. He referred to Page 3 of the Special Activity
permit. This isn’t the first time that Councilman Vincenzi
has requested in the past about the right-of-way.
City Manager Hooper asked City Clerk Wadsworth if they had
the permit. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they didn’t.
City Manager Hooper then asked City Clerk Wadsworth to put
it in on the overhead and again referred to Page 3, Item 5
regarding no parking being permitted within the U.S. #1
right-of-way. No parking shall be permitted within the
Boston Road right-of-way. The area shall be clearly
marked, taped off and kept free from vehicle encroachment
at all time. That has been in there. It’s strong. When
they identified this and went through the permit, he was
clear with Council and defined that it’s changed. What had
been parking on the west side of U.S. #1 was reducing.
There is a shopping center planned to go there. Dollar
General in the last year and a half has been going through
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the site plan process. They have designed the meeting that
Mr. Girvan was talking about. Their engineer submitted
that and it went to the City’s engineer for approval. DOT
had to issue a permit for the turn-lane in front of the No
Name. That permit was issued and then the construction was
done by Dollar General. City staff met with the staff from
the No Name and told them that until the turn lane is open
they could continue to park. When the turn lane is open,
they would have traffic within fifteen feet of their front
door. DOT has also told the City they were going to go out
and put up traffic signs that said no parking. He had no
idea they were going to put up the picket fence looking
thing that they did but they did. What they are stating is
that is to keep the traffic in the turn lane from having
interference with people, bikers or pedestrians. He
mentioned an accident last year that occurred where someone
was hit crossing U.S. #1 coming out of there. That whole
issue is something that has been in place. There is
stronger enforcement this year than in the past mainly
because you have the Dollar General on the north side that
is now looking for its C.O. in the next couple of weeks.
There is a turn-lane that has been approved that puts
moving traffic that much closer to the front of the No
Name. He then referenced Item 8 where for certain events
they close off Boston Road to keep the traffic from going
down to Riverside Drive and keep traffic where it should
be. There is a paved ingress and egress that goes directly
into the No Name that is perfectly functional and that is
what they are supposed to be doing. He then referred to
Item 15 – motorcycle parking along U.S. #1 during heavy
attendance is not permitted and must be removed to offsite
areas for safety reasons. The offsite areas they have
either rented or gotten permission to use Dollar General or
they continue to use the west side of U.S. #1. There are
lights that help you cross U.S. #1. There are no lights to
help you cross Boston, which is dark. That is an issued to
be addressed.
City Manager Hooper stated historically these special
activity permits have been a problem. They have had many
public hearings in which the citizens are fussing that the
noise and the motorcycles in the neighborhood is not
something they want. He feels they have compromised and
tried to find a way to work with everybody trying to come
up with a solution that works. As times change and events
change, as that whole intersection gets commercialized, you
have more trips in and out. This is the result. This is
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commercialization of somebody that has a site plan as a
commercial site right adjacent and for safety reasons that
is how the planning for Dollar General was completed by
their engineer. He further explained the reasons for the
mountable curb/mountable median and it being a normal,
typical DOT type median. You don’t see many in the City.
You have a commercial establishment that has no access to
U.S. #1. They had to get a permit to put the turn lane in.
What Mr. Girvan is describing to you is the actual building
is in the DOT right-of-way. He had a conversation with Mr.
Girvan earlier. If DOT would allow, and it is done in Port
Orange, Port Orange obtains a permit from DOT that says
they can let them use as a special activity their right-of-
way for a period of time. He had no issues with that.
That is a safety issue that if it is allowed to occur it
puts the City in jeopardy, it puts Mr. Girvan in jeopardy
as well as the traveling public trying to make that corner
with bikers coming in and out late and dark
Mr. Girvan stated there is only one entrance now. There
isn’t a second entrance that has been blocked so that whole
parking lot is enclosed. It’s not fifteen feet, it’s
fifteen feet right to the grass. You’ve probably got about
twenty or thirty feet to the door. They aren’t asking to
take the barrier down at the end of the parking lot. They
are asking to be able to park back in the parking lot. He
mentioned the businesses on U.S. #1 to the south and the
parking being right on the street. They are way up. There
is no safety hazard whatsoever.
Councilwoman Rhodes clarified Mr. Girvan wasn’t asking for
the motorcycles to leave on Boston Road. He was asking for
parking but they would egress out of the one entrance onto
U.S. #1. Mr. Girvan stated he wasn’t asking for Boston
Road.
Councilwoman Lichter went to Port Orange a couple of times
and looked at how they are set up. She contacted City
Manager Hooper to ask him how they managed to do that when
you weren’t allowed to put the cars in front of the
establishment. Just over to the right facing it. He
informed her a special permit is required and the owner of
the establishment has to ask for that. It’s granted all
the way down Port Orange. Mr. Girvan stated it’s a little
different situation. He spoke of the Last Resort and the
old Squeeze Inn getting permits to actually park alongside
the street. They are not on the street. They are way back
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in on a parking lot they have had for so long. It is a
State right-of-way. Their building is on a State right-of-
way.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what the harm would be of the
establishment to ask for the permit so they could park
there. Mr. Girvan stated they are in the middle of Bike
Week and they are going to have a lot of traffic at the end
of the week. If the City waives and lets them park there
the rest of the week, he will get a permit that they will
be parking there all the time. He had two calls into the
County today, to DOT. The decision maker will not be in
until tomorrow.
Councilwoman Lichter stated it is discouraging to turn in
there or know they are operating. She stated it is a
business in this City and it is the only one where she sees
white plastic poles in front of it and she thinks that is
very discouraging. When you have the yellow police tape,
it looks like they are keeping people away. She mentioned
three bikes in front of her passing it because they didn’t
know that the bikes were parked before the business. She
feels if there is anything they can do to help, since they
gave a permit for the business to operate, to have the
business operate and not lose money, they should do it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the only problem she has with
that is if they are parking there, there’s got to be
something that will not allow them onto Boston Road. Mr.
Girvan stated the tape is there. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated she knows now, if the tape comes down and they are
allowed to park there, with that abutment there the only
way they have to go is down Boston Road and they don’t want
that. Mr. Girvan stated they can’t get through the
barriers and they have it all taped off. He has dedicated
six to ten security guards for parking so they wouldn’t
have any problems. They can’t get out on that end. That
is why they are enclosed in there. He agreed to get with
DOT tomorrow but it is just a time shuffle. He will get it
permanently that they can park in front of the business
permanently, in the parking lot. It is very safe. They
aren’t complaining about the barricades. The more safety
for them the better and for their patrons. They are
complaining because he feels when you go by it doesn’t look
like anybody is there.
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Councilman Vincenzi questioned there being two issues, the
parking and the cement median. Mr. Girvan confirmed this.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he went down Saturday and Sunday
and watched people move through the roadways. What he is
asking for is parking for ten or fifteen bikes by the front
door. He feels this isn’t a safety issue. It’s true they
are in the right-of-way but the whole building is in the
right-of-way. He has complained about parking but he
didn’t think he hasn’t complained about parking against the
building and fence. He was complaining when they
encroached on the road. Mr. Girvan stated the barriers are
a big thing. It encloses everything and it puts them
fifteen or twenty feet back. He compared their
establishment to all the businesses on U.S. #1 and feels
they are way up there compared to anybody else. Councilman
Vincenzi felt they needed to discuss and take care of one
problem at a time.
City Manager Hooper described for Council this special
activity permit was issued at a public hearing and they
sent out public notices. They had advertising and they had
public comment. To modify that, according to City Attorney
Rosenthal, they would have to redo the public hearing and
go through the process and they don’t have the opportunity
to do that to match his request to try to immediately solve
that. He suggested if Mr. Girvan gets a letter tomorrow
from DOT that says they park in the right-of-way, they just
ignore enforcement of that.
Mayor Thomas asked how they would supercede DOT. City
Manager Hooper informed him they’re not. The only way they
have an enforcement arm is just what they did. They put
the white pilings on. The tape came off because somebody
took down a few of them. It was already starting to occur
that they were being broken off and pulled out then the
tape came up as a means to show where they were and to stop
that from occurring.
Mr. Girvan stated if he goes to DOT tomorrow and it’s a
paper shuffle, they would be all week without parking
there. If DOT is going to give him a waiver and they are
talking about having things in a permit, if DOT gives you a
permit and they won’t worry about the permit and the
public, what is the difference on voting on it now and
saying they could use it for the week. City Manager Hooper
stated they voted on it at a public hearing and there is a
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process to get there. To not go back through the same
process to modify it becomes a legal issue.
Councilman Vincenzi stated in years past he has complained
about noise, parking and everything there is to complain
about the No Name. He was there last year and the year
before complaining about parking and he went up to the
Police Officers and said something and he shrugged his
shoulders and said they are doing it all the time and
questioned what they could do. What is the difference
between that and the Council allowing him to park fifteen
or twenty bikes by the front door? Last year and the year
before they could disregard it. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed him they didn’t disregard it, the Police did.
Councilman Vincenzi stated now all of a sudden they are
cracking down. Now they are saying they can’t change it
without the proper public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter stated if the City called the DOT
tomorrow would they be able to respond faster and send a
fax letting the City know it is okay. City Manager Hooper
stated he was sure they would but they are going to want an
application. Mr. Girvan stated they wouldn’t get it done
tomorrow. He asked what they would charge any patron for
parking in the right-of-way that is not a violation of any
State Statute. City Manager Hooper stated there is a State
Statute and that is what DOT looked at. When they put up
the no parking signs, in year’s past when there wasn’t a
turn lane and there wasn’t a commercial on that side, they
tried to do the best they could to work with the ability to
have people park. When they held the public hearing for
this particular issue, he stressed as hard as he could that
enforcement was going to be strong.
Mr. Girvan asked City Manager Hooper which State Statute he
was talking about. City Manager Hooper informed him State
Statute 316. Mr. Girvan stated 316 is basic and broad.
It’s the whole book. He then asked for the number. He
talked to the FHP today and they read through every
statute.
Mayor Thomas stated they have a bunch of stuff to go over
and he informed Mr. Girvan they would take care of him at
the end of the meeting. There are some people there. He
would be there as long as they needed him to be. He
suggested they take care of the other stuff because he sees
this isn’t going to be easy.
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Shannon Ruby Julian
, Environmental Services Inc., 1625
Taylor Road, Port Orange, informed Council she was
addressing them as a Committee Chairman for a committee
that was formed out of the Volusia County Association for
Responsible Developers. It came to their attention that
the City is looking to revise the Land Development Code and
she understands that with pending development. She
suggested they hold a half-day workshop where they would
bring in and pay for government and private sector speakers
to address all of the issues the Council has before them
such as affordable housing, height restrictions, what has
worked and what hasn’t throughout the State of Florida.
She submitted a proposed agenda to the Council with a
proposed outline and the speakers they have looked at and
talked to that would be interested in helping to provide
this. The main goal they have is to help facilitate
decisions between the Council, the Mayor and management.
If the Council would approve that, they would be happy to
give them that workshop, free of charge as a public service
back to them.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they did have Clay Henderson
there as a speaker to go over Smart Growth with them, which
addresses many of the things Ms. Julian was saying. She
mentioned prior meetings with the Chamber. She would like
to take a general consensus if Ms. Julian thinks there were
things that were not covered that they will cover. Ms.
Julian stated that was fine. Mayor Thomas stated Clay
Henderson suggested they would do this for them. Ms.
Julian stated he is involved in this Committee and he
wasn’t sure that the message was received. She works
throughout the County and other counties that also has to
deal with going between local government and State issues
and there is a gap in many of the cities ordinances and
they don’t want to see the City have conflicting ordinances
in their books that cause problems for everyone that has to
deal with them, including the City Manager.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Julian if she has presented
this to Flagler County and asked her if she is aware that
they have right now ongoing issues and comments and things
going on with the Charter for height restrictions. Ms.
Julian informed her they are aware of what is going on in
Flagler County. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they have
presented a workshop to them. Ms. Julian stated they are
the Volusia County Association for Responsible Developers.
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Councilwoman Rogers stated Ms. Julian said other counties.
Ms. Julian stated she has personally worked in other
counties. The FCARD has also provided workshops in Palm
Coast, which is where some of their speakers have come from
year’s back.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Ms. Julian if she was aware they
had a Land Use Workshop on a Saturday and that public was
open to come to that at that time. Ms. Julian stated she
didn’t see that advertised. No one on the Committee was
aware of it until it was brought to VCARD’s attention. It
is her understanding that Land Development Code issues are
usually brought up in the second quarter. Councilwoman
Rogers feels whether it is brought up in the first quarter
or the second quarter is irrelevant. They have a new
Council and they have a lot of growth going on in the city
as does the State of Florida and the State has a lot of
issues with water and the environment and with the
development coming down the pike right now they have to
have something to support what they believe. Ms. Julian
stated she understands that. Councilwoman Rogers informed
her she wasn’t in favor of any more workshops or
presentations. She feels Clay Henderson and Glenn Storch
have spent enough time with them. She thinks they need to
go forward. She stated they had the Land Use Workshop a
month and a half ago and questioned when they would have
that back to them so they can do something.
City Manager Hooper informed her the schedule is the
modifications to the Land Development Code will go to the
Planning & Zoning Board in April. They are the first
hearing board. They will get drafts of that prior to when
it goes to them. He mentioned the Council seeing a
strike-through and underline version and new language to
the Land Development Code sections that are pertinent. He
advised the Council to let staff finish that, send that to
Council and send it to the Planning & Zoning Board and then
after they see it at the first reading, they could decide
whether they want another outside agency’s review and
comments. That is a normal process they do. They comment
on what is presented to them. If they don’t want to go
through a work session of someone talking to them, at least
they are giving them a work product and let them make
comments, tell them the pros and cons and there are some of
both. The Council will hear it through the whole public
hearing process. He feels they are very close to having
those finished. They deal with heights, the densities they
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have talked about, net verses gross, compensating storage
in a flood plain and minimize lot size. Councilwoman
Rogers stated and it will be the lot widths depending on
what type of soil it is. City Manager Hooper informed her
above the 100 year and below the 100 year. Councilwoman
Lichter asked about affordable housing. City Manager
Hooper stated they haven’t gotten into much of that. That
is a much larger issue than they could tackle today. He
commented on inclusionary zoning that is being tried in
Tallahassee and talked about in other places.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Ms. Julian if the County employs
her. Ms. Julian informed her she works for a private firm.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned this being a volunteer group
that wants to do this for them. Ms. Julian informed her
that was correct. City Manager Hooper stated VCARD is made
up of governments and development consultants. It’s a
large group that meets and talks of a lot of different
opportunities with the Code. It’s a long-term
organization, which they have participated from a staff
level off and on. They have many consultants that go
through their process. That has been a primary function
and Smart Growth is one of their latest products that came
out of that.
Councilman Vincenzi doesn’t mind having another workshop
but he doesn’t think much of Smart Growth and if it is
going to be another Smart Growth workshop, he isn’t
interested. If they will tell them stuff they haven’t
heard before or don’t know, he would be willing to
entertain it.
Dave Castagnacci
, Director for VCARD, stated they
periodically do this with local governments throughout both
counties. They just had an educational program in Flagler
County on coastal development. The speakers provide
insights on planning concepts. It is to help the Council
more hone in on what is going on within the community. It
is to give the Council ideas and get some lines of
communication going. He feels it would be good for the
Council to see Fred Meeker, who is a very good speaker from
St. John’s, to understand the interaction between St.
John’s and the local government and the permitting process
for developments. He asked for some direction if they do
want them to move forward because they do have a committee
that is trying to put the program together.
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Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Hooper when they
come up with some of the new ideas for the Land Development
Code, do they go through an environmental body other than
the Council to be evaluated or checked or approved. City
Manager Hooper commented on the Comp Plan going through
that process. The Land Development Code is a legislative
booklet that the Council creates. It’s how development is
going to be handled and done within the City. It does not
have an outside formal review process of any kind. They
use other existing codes that are working somewhere else
and they use those to go by. This was created by a
consultant five to seven years ago and has been modified
almost on an annual basis. As issues come up, they modify
the Code.
Mayor Thomas thought they were here because they heard
Edgewater was making amendments to the Land Development
Code and they wanted to present Council with some of their
ideas and other ideas that have worked in other cities.
Mr. Castagnacci stated a majority of the larger governments
in Volusia and Flagler County they have worked with when
they have been doing land code updates. He spoke of
meeting with staff prior to the process moving forward to
the elected officials. He commented on the people in their
group being familiar with the process as much as the folks
on the public end. It is just to give ideas and different
perspectives that folks within the City staff might not
realize when they are drafting it. It is to make sure they
come out with a quality product when it’s done that they
won’t be having problems to try and fix glitches two months
later.
Mayor Thomas stated what he is hearing from his Council as
a general consensus so far is they have been in workshops
th
ever since they took office on November 8. He feels they
are tired of workshops and questioned if they don’t ask
them to come back right away can they ask them to come back
later if they wanted to do that. Mr. Castagnacci informed
him sure. As the Council is going through the land code
drafting process, if they can work with them on reviewing
proposed changes and allow them to offer input early on in
the process, he feels helps later on. They have worked
with staff’s before where members of their group have
proposed making changes that have been stricter than what
they had because they were able to show them how it would
be a more productive document.
Page 16 of 31
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Mayor Thomas stated they would let them know if they are
interested.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how long the process takes. She
felt City Manager Hooper had a good point. When it’s done
being written, if they looked it over, that would probably
be terrific. She asked how long that would hold up the
process. Mr. Castagnacci stated he wasn’t sure how the
Council was planning on doing the process. They can get a
group together to sit with staff and review different
aspects of the Code before they start moving it through the
process, which he feels helps avoid conflicts later on.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 8:00 p.m. and reconvened at 8:14 p.m.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
nd
A.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-05, J.C. Carder
requesting annexation of 28.56+ acres of land
located north of Godfrey Road and west of the
Indian River
Paralegal Matusick read Ord. 2006-O-05 into the record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation. He asked
City Clerk Wadsworth if she had the future land use and
zoning that Development Services Director Darren Lear had.
City Manager Hooper stated Councilwoman Rogers asked that
they do some research so they could present Council with
when it’s in the County what it’s current land use
designation is and what it could be used for. Mr. Lear
went on to explain the land use and zoning in the County
for this property.
City Manager Hooper explained this is very similar to what
would be our low density residential. He mentioned the
City having certain lot widths for each zoning category and
this being much more open-ended.
Councilwoman Lichter asked what is being planned for the
river. Mr. Lear stated it changes week to week. We
haven’t had any applications submitted for any development.
Page 17 of 31
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City Manager Hooper then spoke of people in the County
wanting to be able to do the same thing in the City with
their property that they could do in the County.
City Manager Hooper stated staff would probably tell
Council low density residential is what they are looking
for. They could have some commercial closer to water if
they could work that out. He didn’t think they would
because of there not being good road access into some of
that. Mr. Carder has described to them anywhere from
condos to single family and a marina. He hasn’t seen an
application that gives him a real hint as to what could go
in. He mentioned there being single family in Godfrey
Estates that have between seventy and seventy-five foot
lots. He also mentioned a subdivision that is being
developed coming into the County that has sixty or seventy
foot lots. Mr. Lear informed him he thought they were
seventy and seventy-five. City Manager Hooper mentioned
the road being paved and there being a big discussion about
how this integrates with the property adjacent and
compatibility with what is already existing in Godfrey
Estates. He didn’t feel they would be looking at any more
high density because he didn’t feel Council would approve
that, which he informed Council was his opinion. He
thought they would be seeing single-family coming in there.
Maybe a little bit of water frontage that had a community
dock or privately owned marina for these folks only. That
was his expectation.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her understanding is whatever
the zoning is in the County that it comes into the City
with the same zoning. She commented on the low density in
the County being much different than what it is in the
City. City Manager Hooper explained in the County it has a
zoning and land use. When it comes into the City, none of
that counts. It only counts when you are comparing. It
has the same zoning until the Council changes it. It will
come back to Council to change it to do something with it.
They can’t develop anything until they come back to
Council. They cannot change the land use, they can’t
change the zoning, they won’t get a plat and won’t get any
development approvals until this come back to Council to
modify the Land Development Code and the Comp Plan
Amendment.
Mayor Thomas stated that was pretty liberal zoning and
questioned why Mr. Carder would want to be annexed into the
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March 6, 2006
City. City Manager Hooper informed him water and sewer.
In the County he has no water and sewer and can’t develop.
All along the U.S. #1 corridor the City has water and
sewer. The City controls growth. If something is going to
grow and Council will control how it is done, they don’t
get water and sewer and can’t develop except with septic
tanks and individual wells and that puts them on 2 ½ acre
lots.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Chris Balmer
, 148 William Street, asked if Red Fish Cove,
which is in the County, is on 2 ½ acre lots. City Manager
Hooper informed him it is on larger ones. The County
purchased some capacity from us but we didn’t catch that in
time and didn’t force that annexation.
Mr. Balmer feels it seems like to annex the property into
Edgewater would be a no-brainer. He feels the reasons the
City is seeing annexations is because in the past the City
has been great to work with from a development perspective.
Everyone he knows is feeling the Council out right now to
see what it is going to be like in the future. The real
issue is not the fact that we should absolutely annex this
in then we control it 100%, whatever is developed on it.
Properties like this in the future may not want to annex
into the City and may want to develop 45-foot lots or
mobile home parks through the county. He feels it seems
like they are taking a little bit of an anti-development,
no Smart Growth, I don’t want to see things built around
me, and he is concerned with Red Fish Cove and the pieces
of property that are County that will be developed and use
our local stores, schools, roads, traffic lights. We will
have traffic and congestion. The difference is we won’t
realize tax revenue and the City will have zero control
over development. The County’s code is very liberal and
you could very well have a mobile home park there. Yes we
absolutely want this property in Edgewater control and we
want to continue to have good relationships with groups
like VCARD and the Builders Associations because we want
then to want to annex into the City. Otherwise they will
go straight to the County and develop whatever they want
and it will still have the same impact that we have if it
is in the City and we are collecting tax revenue.
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March 6, 2006
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated ditto. He has said
that how many times. Get it in here, get it under our
thumb, figure out what they want to do with it, ask the
developer for it and then go get it.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
feels the reason these properties are trying to get in is
because of urban growth boundaries. They seem to be able
to get more use out of their property once they have come
into the City. The problem is once this comes into the
City and they pay their impact fees but it’s going to cost
the citizens in Edgewater right now for some
infrastructure. This is still going to cost the taxpayers
living because growth does not pay for itself. They do it.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-05, J.C.
Carder requesting annexation of 28.56+ acres of land
located north of Godfrey Road and west of the Indian River,
second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
nd
Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-04, James Morris,
B.2
agent for Charles and Phyllis Barry, requesting
an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future
Land Use Map to include 5.04+ acres of land
located south of SR 442 and west of Old Mission
Road as Commercial with Conservation Overlay
City Manager Hooper informed the Council this needed to be
st
continued to a date certain, May 1.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to continue Ord. 2006-O-04 until
May 1, 2006, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
C. Res. No. 2006-R-02, establishing a Stormwater
Basin Fee of $100 per acre for any building
permit, subdivision plat, site plan or
development order for all development within the
Ariel Canal Basin
Paralegal Matusick read Res. 2006-R-02 into the record.
Page 20 of 31
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March 6, 2006
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas questioned how come only $100 and asked who
came up with the $100. City Manager Hooper informed him it
is the math. You put $150,000 divided by 1,500 acres and
it comes up with $100. Mayor Thomas felt $100 was pretty
cheap. City Manager Hooper informed him it is cheap. That
is only the study phase. They will come back and say a
certain canal needs to be fixed and there’s pipes put in so
we will be knocking on the developer’s door saying if you
want that subdivision approved here are the drainage
improvements you have to do.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated if they have budget overruns,
which sometimes occurs, that will then be added into this.
City Manager Hooper informed her if it is, they will come
back and say they have to adjust the fee at some point.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated it sounds like
the developer will be building subdivisions, which will
have associations. Usually when this happens, the ponds
and the canal structures are deeded to the associations.
City Manager Hooper informed him that will still occur.
Mr. Capria stated so that makes the associations
responsible and not the City. He feels the City is going
to charge the developer $100 per acre and he’s not going to
pay it and it’s going to go into the price of the homes,
which means the price of homes will raise, the taxes will
raise. Their taxes are going to raise because of it
because now they are assessed at market value. He knows
legislation was passed Save our Homes, no more than 3%
increase but what people don’t realize is the dollar amount
is more than 3% because what happens is when the market
value goes up, it’s 3% of the market value, not 3% of what
you will pay in your taxes. By doing this to the
developer, he will raise the prices of the homes and the
City will get more taxes because the prices are higher but
that money does not come back to the homeowners like last
year $72,000 plus should come back to the homeowners.
Councilwoman Rogers stated if they didn’t do something like
this, the City would be paying for it and passing it back
Page 21 of 31
Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
to the taxpayers so our taxes would go up anyway. Mr.
Capria feels they should get a strict statement from the
developer that he should pay for this and he should. He
didn’t know how they could control it but not put it in the
price of the homes. He feels they need to do something
because their taxes are going to go up because of it.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2006-R-02,
establishing a Stormwater Basin Fee of $100 per acre for
any building permit, subdivision plat, site plan or
development order for all development within the Ariel
Canal Basin, second by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda
at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
There was no Other Business to be discussed at this time.
Mayor Thomas announced that they would now go back to the
discussion regarding Mr. Girvan’s concerns.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if she could make a comment
before they did that. Her comment was regarding what was
said by Mr. Balmer and Mr. Card regarding the annexation.
As a City Councilperson, every time an applicant comes
before the Council and they are wanting to annex into the
City, it does sound good and she understands if they annex
the property into the City they will have control but they
would not be doing their job unless they ask questions.
They don’t know what the plans are for this property.
Right now there is a lawsuit against the City because of
what someone is wanting to do to the property. They have
heard it enough that it’s a no-brainer that they need to
look at annexing the property so that the City has control
of it, they are aware of that but they do need to ask
Page 22 of 31
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March 6, 2006
questions. It’s information and the public that is sitting
here and the public that reads the minutes will feel more
comfortable with the Council because they are asking
questions instead of just saying yes every time. Mayor
Thomas dittoed her comments.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they cannot make a motion
legally. She would be really opposed to instructing the
Chief, which they can’t do by the Charter, or the City
Manager or anybody else to disregard the law. She
suggested letting City Manager Hooper handle this and he
knows how the Council feels about it and she feels it needs
to be placed in his hands to deal with it. She feels they
don’t have another option at this point in time.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on this being approved at a
public hearing initially. She felt bad. Mr. Girvan stated
he felt bad himself because it is coming out of their
pocket. Councilwoman Rogers stated they are looking at the
letter of the law and the Attorney has advised them.
Mr. Girvan asked how long City Manager Hooper has been
here. City Manager Hooper informed him seven years. Mr.
Girvan stated this is an on-going thing. The first thing
they had taken over this property was a bunch of fees they
were charged that usually you are supposed to pay at the
beginning. He feels they are getting nailed left and
right. City Manager Hooper informed Mr. Girvan he knew
that wasn’t true. Mr. Girvan asked if he could finish. He
feels City Manager Hooper has a very big conflict with the
No Name due to Mr. Girvan seeing him numerous times up in
the office counting money as a City official being up there
with the ex-Mayor and there is going to be a lot of things
coming out in the laundry because this isn’t over and they
aren’t going to sit there and take it. He is going to go
to DOT and get whatever he has to get from the DOT. He
asked City Manager Hooper for a Statute number of what laws
they are violating by parking there. If it’s any danger to
any traffic whatsoever. If they park there and they get
ticketed and towed, they better be willing to do that
throughout the City. There are parking signs all along
their street, down U.S. #1 in front of their street, all
the way down Boston. Now they have been added, because
they complained, all the way down Boston. They better be
putting parking signs all over the City in front of
businesses and they better not be parked up against the
street. Don’t go after them if they aren’t going to go
Page 23 of 31
Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
after other people. He’s got issues with City Manager
Hooper and he is going to start showing up at every Council
meeting and he is going to watch City Manager Hooper
because he knows he has several conflicts and he informed
City Manager Hooper he knew what he was talking about.
City Manager Hooper informed him he did not. Mr. Girvan
informed him he would find out soon enough. He feels City
Manager Hooper is dirty.
Councilwoman Lichter informed Mr. Girvan she didn’t feel
this was helping his cause in the long run because the
Council is concerned about helping him. Mr. Girvan stated
and they are trying to work with the City and right now
they are in the middle of Bike Week and no one is helping
them at all. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed and felt if he
would just go back to the No Name she feels this problem
would be solved for him to his satisfaction if he would
leave this alone. She told him he didn’t know what City
Manager Hooper was going to do and didn’t know how it was
going to turn out. Mr. Girvan stated he knows where they
are at right now. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him he is
assuming something. Mr. Girvan stated he isn’t assuming
something. Councilwoman Rhodes feels if he does that and
he is not satisfied, he can contact the Council and they
will put it on an agenda. Right now, their hands are tied.
They cannot help him in time to help him this Bike Week but
the City Manager can help him. Mr. Girvan stated the City
Manager couldn’t help him this week. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated he is the only one that can help him this week. Mr.
Girvan questioned how he could help him this week. The
only one that will help him right now is DOT and he needs a
Statute. Mr. Girvan mentioned a comment made by
Councilwoman Rhodes where she questioned why they couldn’t
just drive over the concrete median. Mr. Girvan questioned
if she said that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated big trucks do
that all the time. Mr. Girvan stated that is why they have
the police writing tickets. You can’t do that. With the
concrete median, the blueprint on the median, the one they
saw tonight, that was the first thing he has ever seen on a
blueprint. Their attorney has a blueprint and they never
had concrete median on a blueprint. He stated City Manager
Hooper said the reason that median was put there was
because the entranceway was going to be down a little bit
but then they changed their mind and moved it back. He
questioned why the median wasn’t changed at that point.
City Manager Hooper stated he said that was a portion of
the reason.
Page 24 of 31
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March 6, 2006
Councilwoman Rogers stated Mr. Girvan is indicating to them
the City Attorney has advised them. She asked if the City
Attorney could put that in writing and mention the Florida
Statute and get a letter over to Mr. Girvan. City Manager
Hooper stated he certainly could. Councilwoman Rogers
feels this is necessary. Mr. Girvan stated give me a
Statute that will stand up in court. He is going to go to
DOT. Councilwoman Rogers feels if they can provide this
letter, she didn’t think DOT could overrule something like
that. Mr. Girvan stated DOT could overrule the City.
Councilwoman Rogers stated if they couldn’t provide it, it
would help Mr. Girvan. Mr. Girvan again stated DOT could
overrule the City. Once DOT makes the decision, it sits.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested a sign be placed out front
welcoming the bikers, something that will catch their eye
instead of the white posts, and feels this might be
helpful. Mr. Girvan stated they just took down a sign off
the top of the building because of the sign ordinances.
Councilwoman Lichter stated everybody in the City got the
same thing. She informed Mr. Girvan in the end it would
help him if there was going to be a legal matter that he
doesn’t make accusations accusing people. She didn’t think
that would help in any legal matter that Mr. Girvan might
move forward. She then suggested if Mr. Girvan calls DOT
or City Manager Hooper calls DOT maybe they could get some
type of temporary permission. Mr. Girvan stated they
really didn’t want it temporary, they wanted a permanent
one. Councilwoman Lichter stated they are talking
immediate. She knows what he wants but they are trying to
help him this week.
Councilwoman Lichter then stated there were two issues
mentioned by Councilman Vincenzi. One is the median and
that Mr. Girvan says it’s a hindrance and that they can’t
park. She wanted to go back to the map and look at that
situation because apparently they can go down the front and
bring their deliveries in, which she didn’t realize when
she went to the No Name. She then mentioned either Mr.
Girvan or City Manager Hooper contacting DOT tomorrow. Mr.
Girvan stated he would be contacting them in the morning
and that it wouldn’t be a problem. She again mentioned
putting a sign up to let them know they are open might be
helpful. She then asked to be shown the alternate route
they can go in. Mr. Girvan stated there is only one
entrance. He stated there is no way they can get a
Page 25 of 31
Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
delivery truck in there right now. With all their parking
in the front and having to park in the back and these guys
coming in with huge semis makes it difficult. City Manager
Hooper pointed out where they can load and unload. He
pointed out with the layout they can’t do it. If they did
the vendors and laid it out, they could pull in, load and
unload and pull out. DOT’s view is U.S.#1 is their primary
ingress and egress. Mr. Girvan stated they weren’t talking
about DOT on this. City Manager Hooper informed him he
knew he wasn’t but that is what Councilwoman Lichter asked
him. What they are seeing is a non-conforming site plan.
This is fifty years old. There is a building in the right-
of-way. It has no drainage. It meets none of the City’s
current conditions. There is not an approved ingress and
egress along Boston Road. He commented on having a
commercial development that changes Boston Road. Boston is
no longer a two-lane road, it is three lanes.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned what Mr. Girvan is supposed
to do if he gets deliveries tomorrow. City Manager Hooper
stated whatever he is doing now or he can pull in the
front. Mr. Girvan stated pull in and carry 500 cases of
beer. There is no way. That is ridiculous.
Mayor Thomas asked who designed and approved the concrete
median on Boston. City Manager Hooper stated the engineer
for Dollar General did the design. Mayor Thomas then asked
who did the final approval, DOT or the City. City Manager
Hooper informed him both and explained who approved what.
Mayor Thomas asked if they have another concrete median in
Edgewater similar to that. City Manager Hooper informed
him he didn’t know of any. They have nowhere else that a
commercial establishment doesn’t have access to the main
road. The Land Development Code discourages any kind of
use along a residential street. It also mandates that
Dollar General has to be provided legal access. He further
commented on having a situation like on Boston Road.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Girvan they were lucky in the
past to be able to park the bikes on the lot where the
Dollar General is. Probably in the future, since they
aren’t open for business now, they have allowed them to do
that. He has been very fortunate about Mr. McAllister
across the street allowing him to park vehicles over there.
When somebody moves in next to you, you have to make some
allowances and some changes. There is plenty of room to go
into the entranceway off of U.S. #1, to pull a beer truck
Page 26 of 31
Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
in there and turn it around when you don’t have all the
vendors in there. He knows Mr. Girvan is in a bind right
now and they need to settle this and evidently he has some
disagreements with City Manager Hooper. Mayor Thomas
stated he is trying to define Plan B on how it will appease
Mr. Girvan and be legal. He further stated Councilwoman
Rhodes suggested they let City Manager Hooper do that and
in any other situation he thinks that is an excellent idea.
Since he has some disagreements with City Manager Hooper
then what are they going to do. Councilwoman Rhodes
suggested letting Fire Chief Barlow handle it if it is okay
with City Manager Hooper. They as a Council cannot direct
staff to do anything. If it is agreeable with City Manager
Hooper, maybe Fire chief Barlow could. City Manager Hooper
stated that puts undue burden on Fire Chief Barlow. He
agreed to meet out there by noon tomorrow and he will have
a solution he thinks they will be able to live with and he
thinks Mr. Girvan will be able to live with.
Mr. Girvan stated they don’t want to hear that the building
has been there for fifty years and new buildings are moving
in and we are going to shut your entranceway. He mentioned
the delivery entrance not being an approved delivery
entrance. What is an approved delivery entrance. Back
then there were no prints back then. For them to be on a
State right-of-way, obviously someone had to approve it to
be there.
Mayor Thomas agreed to go with City Manager Hooper to the
No Name. Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t feel that was a good
idea. Councilwoman Lichter stated the Mayor represents all
of us. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it doesn’t have anything
to do with the Mayor and under any other circumstances she
would say go along. It also makes the Mayor and the
Council part of it and she feels they need to stay out of
it right now.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Girvan if he felt comfortable
meeting with City Manager Hooper tomorrow. Mr. Girvan
informed him he doesn’t feel comfortable with City Manager
Hooper at all. Councilwoman Lichter stated then that is
the end of it. There is nothing else they can do. Mr.
Girvan stated he would hit up DOT tomorrow to see what he
could do. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested he meet with him,
hear his solution and then make his decision. Mr. Girvan
again stated he would call DOT tomorrow and he will try to
get any permit he’s got to park in. Anything else they
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Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
will just handle legally. Councilwoman Lichter informed
him that was his choice because they tried to offer a
solution.
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, felt Mr. Girvan
has applied for a permit that was approved. Irregardless
of the age of his building, if it is conforming or non-
conforming, the permit was issued. He should be allowed to
operate without conferring with anybody else. The man pays
his taxes and is being forced to obtain an attorney. She
didn’t feel this was fair.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her this permit has all of
this in the permit. They are trying to get around the
permit without a public hearing to help him. Councilwoman
Rogers stated these items were in the initial conditions
that were up on the overhead. Mayor Thomas stated he isn’t
complying with the specifications of the permit. City
Manager Hooper explained they have gone through and
described this will be the result of no parking in the
right-of-way. Councilwoman Rogers stated there were
conditions that were spelled out. Councilwoman Lichter
stated she didn’t envision it being so unwelcomingly.
Mayor Thomas stated he has been there and you can get a
beer truck in there and unload it but you can’t right now
because of all the vendors being set up. He doesn’t want
to change and he is going to have to change.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned what would happen when there
is something else built on the property across the street
and they can’t park there.
Councilwoman Rogers felt for the defense of the City they
need to have the City Attorney do a letter.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. Paralegal Matusick
Paralegal Matusick mentioned the information that was
handed out regarding River Oaks.
City Manager Hooper stated there’s a lot of pages but all
it is is a timely response and they are asking the court to
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March 6, 2006
toll the period in which they can respond and to dismiss
the case because the Council hasn’t taken final action.
C. City Manager Hooper
City Manager Hooper went over the notice for the executive
meeting. He informed the Council of the process they will
follow at this meeting. The meeting will be held Monday at
6:00 p.m. After that they will go into a work session to
talk about Reflections and Washington Park.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked about a time schedule for both of
the presentations. City Manager Hooper felt it would be
less than an hour for Reflections but with Washington Park
he felt they would be telling the Council how it works and
the Council will let him know if they want to do it or not.
They are looking for an assessment similar to Florida
Shores and expansion so that will be a short more
philosophical conception. Unless there is a lot of
discussion or questions, they should be out by 8:30 p.m. or
9:00 p.m
City Manager Hooper then commented on the agreement he
handed out for City Manager Services. Councilman Vincenzi
indicated to Paralegal Matusick that he would like this as
a future agenda item and brought up to him a couple of
points that are in the contract under Section 7 defining
what PEC, which he is quarter owner of, defines who they
work for in Volusia County. He then went over that list.
The question about private development. There is a list
that Councilman Vincenzi asked for of everybody that has
done business in the last three years. PEC has never
worked for any of them and doesn’t plan to.
Councilman Vincenzi stated for the record he wants this on
the agenda for discussion to discuss any possible
renegotiating. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they could
discuss it now. Councilman Vincenzi didn’t feel this was a
good idea. Councilwoman Lichter stated she wasn’t
prepared. Councilman Vincenzi stated what he described to
City Manager Hooper was he wanted it put on the agenda for
discussion to allow the Council the opportunity to put out
their views about discussing it. If it is arrived at a
consensus that night that the majority of the Council wants
to discuss renegotiating his contract, then at that time
they can schedule another agenda item. Councilwoman Rhodes
questioned if they could make that consensus now. A
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Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
consensus to discuss would take five minutes. Councilman
Vincenzi stated it hasn’t been advertised and it’s not even
on the agenda. He was just mentioning it. Councilwoman
Lichter asked Councilman Vincenzi if this was something
three of them were involved in in the beginning. She feels
the two new Councilpeople need to take a look at it. Mayor
Thomas stated he would like some time to look at it.
Councilman Vincenzi felt it was fair that everybody had the
opportunity to look at it and decide if they want to talk
about it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated then there is a
consensus to put it on the agenda. Councilman Vincenzi
stated not just about Item 7. This rendition says that I
have concerns about Item 7. He would like everybody to
look at the entire contract and then come up with any
discussion items they would like to talk about at that
time. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if Councilman Vincenzi
felt like he needed that. She didn’t. Councilman Vincenzi
wanted to make it clear that that is what his intent was.
Not just to talk about Item 7 in the contract.
City Manager Hooper asked Councilman Vincenzi if he wanted
to pick a particular date. Councilman Vincenzi stated he
th
was hoping to get it on the agenda for March 20. If
everybody thinks there is enough time between now and then
to actually discuss the terms of it, what they like and
th
what they don’t like about it, March 20 is fine. City
Manager Hooper commented on having the rehearing of the
th
condominiums on March 20and it is going to be a long
meeting. Councilwoman Rogers felt they had enough to do.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the only conflict he has is he
rd
wouldn’t be able to attend the April 3 meeting so it can’t
be that meeting. Mayor Thomas suggested they do it April
th
17 and take a couple of land uses off and postpone them.
City Manager Hooper agreed to make that happen.
Councilwoman Lichter suggested Mayor Thomas work out with
City Manager Hooper what is necessary to handle that night
and what is not.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
There were no Citizen Comments at this time.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed.
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Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:10
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
March 6, 2006