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05-15-2006 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING MAY 15, 2006 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES 1. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Present Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Excused Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present Interim City Manager Jon Williams Present City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present City Attorney Paul Rosenthal Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved at this time. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS A.Chief Ignasiak presenting Officer Robert Hazelwood a plaque for “Officer of the Quarter”. Chief Ignasiak was not present due to helping direct traffic due to the fires. B. Elden McDirmit/Kelly Leary, McDirmit, Davis, Puckett, presenting the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) for fiscal year ended September 30, 2005 Page 1 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Interim City Manager Williams informed Council if any of the members didn’t have a CAFR tonight, City Clerk Wadsworth had a copy. Interim City Manager Williams commented on this being a culmination of our fiscal year end for 2005. He has reviewed the report and is fairly pleased with the overall steps the City has made. Elden McDirmit briefly went through the CAFR and highlighted a few things. They issued an unqualified report, which is the cleanest or best opinion they can give the financial statements of the City. Overall the city is very sound financially. He commented on the total assets and the debt of the City. Mr. McDirmit commented on the fund balance of the General Fund. He commended the Council and staff for the significant increase that was made to the General Fund balance this year. Last year it was 4% of the budgeted expenditures. This year it increased to 11% of the budgeted expenditures. That kind of significant increase for one year is great. The Charter states 15% is where the City should be at. He mentioned the City talking about not budgeting any of the fund balance until they have grown it to the range they feel they need it to be. He then went over the General Fund as it compares to the budget for the year. Mr. McDirmit then commented on the Financial Statements, Balance Sheet and Income Statements for the proprietary type funds such as the Water & Sewer Fund, the Sanitation Fund and the Stormwater Fund. The Water & Sewer Fund showed an increase in the operating revenue. The Sanitation Fund, they reversed a loss in the fund from last year. They showed a surplus for this year. He spoke of having a loss last year in the Stormwater Fund and they had a negative fund balance or equity position in that in the unrestricted area and this year they increased the deficit again. That is one the areas they want to help the City target and look at for next year to try and turn around that loss. Mr. McDirmit commented on the Compliance Reports. They are very positive and there is no areas of material weakness in the internal control and that the City complied with all Page 2 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 financial related matters with laws regulations and grants the city had to follow. Mr. McDirmit then went over the Management Letter. Mr. McDirmit thanked Interim City Manager Williams and his staff for the cooperation they provide. It is a pleasure to work with them. Councilwoman Rogers had comments but wanted to wait until she spent some one-on-one time with Interim City Manager Williams over some specific questions. There were no other Council comments at this time. 4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on receiving a call from Mr. Heller who said he was trying to call City Hall and couldn’t get through. He had a rotary phone and if you didn’t have a button to push you couldn’t get City Hall. She felt this might be critical in a hurricane or a disaster. She contacted Assistant City Manager Liz McBride and Tim Sopko and Mr. Sopko had it fixed in one day. She thanked him for fixing it so quickly. Councilwoman Lichter commented on the Charter Revision Commission taking place now. They have some up with some different interpretations and recommendations then the present WAV setup. Maybe a different type of Water Authority. She mentioned Daytona wanting to pull out of the WAV Group due to not wanting to pay their money. And other cities that buy water for them being affected. It is very interesting. The structure in the end may be five people. The funding would also be different. They are thinking of taking a small percent of the sales tax and letting all of the water projects be funded by that. That would take a referendum, an act from the State and several other things. This will be discussed Wednesday at the WAV meeting. She commented on the recommendation from the Environmental Group with regard to creating a Water Policy Review Commission. Change might be on the way. Mayor Thomas stated it was brought to her attention today by City Clerk Wadsworth that Mr. Hooper was on the Growth Page 3 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Management Commission and due to this resignation, they need a replacement. He would like to appoint Karen Hall, who previously served on the Growth Management Commission. Mayor Thomas presented an update on the fires out by I-95. He is very proud of our fire team. He commented on the need for different types of heavy equipment to fight forest fires. 5. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Ferd Heeb , 115 N. Riverside Drive, commented on an article in the newspapers regarding the State of Florida and Volusia County studying the widening of Clyde Morris Blvd. through Ormond Beach and the expansion of LPGA to SR 44 even though there was no money. Then there was a notice of a public hearing that they want to six-lane Clyde Morris from Beville Road to International Speedway. He feels we are getting a preview of US 1 in ten years. The fires have shown us just how well US 1 can handle traffic. With the growth occurring south of Roberts Road and to come in ten years, that’s what US 1 is going to look at and nothing is being done for another north-south corridor. He feels the natural straight-line corridor is from Beacon Light Road and Halifax in Oak Hill all the way to Nova. He spoke of Southeast Volusia being the stepchild when it comes to road dollars. The real problem is the fact that southeast Volusia doesn’t speak with one voice. Until there is a coalition and an understanding between Oak Hill, New Smyrna and Edgewater, we aren’t going to see those dollars. There is nothing on the drawing board to help us out for the next twenty years. He recommended a coalition between the three cities. He feels Edgewater is going to explode and they have a lot of land to develop on the east side of I-95 and it is going to happen and nobody in Oak Hill can go anywhere without going through Edgewater and we can’t go anywhere without going through New Smyrna. All three of these cities and their traffic and their growth impact each other. He suggested the three cities get together and start making something happen. Mayor Thomas stated they meet monthly with Port Orange, New Smyrna and Jack Hayman and they discussed these issues. He put Councilwoman Rogers on the MPO Board and she has discussed some of the concerns. He spoke of two major Page 4 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 roads coming through Hammock Creek that is going to end up at SR 442. Councilwoman Rogers mentioned the cost to build roads. This is a pet peeve of hers especially with the changes they are proposing to the Land Development Code. She further commented on having transportation problems. With all of the developments and the fact that there is no money, and it costs approximately $1 million to build one mile of road and we don’t have any roads on this side of I- 95. There are two roads that will be north and south, Williamson Boulevard and the Airport Road extension. She is trying to slow down growth as much as possible because we need these roads in place. They need to know they are going to happen before they approve any more developments, especially high density. Mayor Thomas stated at the last VCOG meeting they addressed the new roads and we aren’t getting anything like the other people are. Mr. Heeb stated his biggest concern is getting three cities together and agreeing on how they are going to deal with the transportation in Southeast Volusia. Mayor Thomas guaranteed they are working on this. Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned meeting regularly with New Smyrna, Oak Hill and Port Orange. They are doing it again in June and they have discussed these things in the past. Unfortunately with no money, there isn’t much you can do. She mentioned the 5% tax that the County put on gas being for roads and questioned where it is. Mr. Heeb stated north of us. Councilwoman Rogers asked Interim City Manager Williams if he would be taking Mr. Hooper’s place on this group. Mayor Thomas informed her he appointed Karen Hall earlier. Councilwoman Rogers stated she didn’t know this has to do with that committee. Interim City Manager Williams informed her they would be having a joint meeting with the cities of New Smyrna Beach and Port Orange and transportation will be a topic of discussion. Councilwoman Rogers again asked Interim City Manager Williams if he would be taking City Manager Hooper’s place Page 5 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 on the group that discussed transportation. Interim City Manager Hooper stated he would assume so. Councilwoman Rogers stated she asked to have those items brought to her attention and the things Interim City Manager Williams discussed, she wanted to know about it and it wasn’t presented to her. She wants it presented to her at this point and to keep her abreast of this. She is going to be very hard on developers and the future growth until they get this down. Until they have the money and the land in place, they really need to slow down development. If the developers want to develop, they need to come up with some solutions. Ed Keenan , 1905 Pine Tree Drive, stated he recently wrote the governor a letter concerning the roads, particularly I- 95. He mentioned I-95 being three and four lanes from Ft. Pierce down. From there up you have two lanes most of the way. He commented on a response he received from Mr. Gilhooly from the Transportation Department. Mr. Keenan commented on Mr. Williams acting as the City’s treasurer. Until the decision is made, he gave the City addresses to get information on having a City Manager type of participation in this from the grand daddy of all of them. He suggested Mr. Williams get an increase in salary until this gets settled. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Keenan they would be discussing his agreement tonight. Mr. Keenan further commented on the roads being a problem. He feels we should have an outlet going to Ft. Smith Road in Deltona going west. Dot Carlson , 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated growth doesn’t pay. At the end of their road, they didn’t need a drain until they got a motel with a wall. This drain cost the Edgewater people $2,248.00. Growth doesn’t pay for itself unless they send the bill to the person that built the wall and the motel. Ms. Carlson stated Councilwoman Rogers had a good point on the roads but they also have to consider the water, which Councilwoman Lichter is doing. She also commented on having to consider hurricanes with growth. More damage, more insurance, more equipment to get this stuff up and Page 6 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 running. It took a long time to get us up and running two years ago after three or four hurricanes. The more people the longer it takes to get anybody up and running. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS st A.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-15, Tom Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive plan Future Land Use Map to include .45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-15 into the record. Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Kimberly Buck, Allen Engineering Group, representing the applicant, was present to answer any questions. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-15, Tom Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive plan Future Land Use Map to include .45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial, second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . st B.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-16, Tom Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include .45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as B-3 (Highway Commercial) City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-16 into the record. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing. Page 7 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. No. 2006-O-16, Tom Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include .45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as B-3 (Highway Commercial), second by Councilwoman Rogers. The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . st C.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-17, James C. and Rosemary Carder requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include .24+ acres of land located along the southwest corner of Falcon Avenue and Mariners Gate Court as R-4 (Multi- Family Residential) City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-17 into the record. Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Carder to approach the podium. Councilwoman Rogers was confused because it says they will be putting in a single-family residence but yet it says that it will be changed to multi-family residential. She asked what this is. Development Services Director Darren Lear explained it is going to the R-4 zoning, which permits single-family homes in this district. They will be required to have variances after they get rezoned to actually be able to fit a single-family home on this lot. Councilwoman Rogers asked if there would be retention created on this piece of property. Mr. Lear informed her that wasn’t necessary. He spoke of this piece of property having a mixed land use and zoning on it. Councilwoman Rogers questioned if they could go to a different zoning classification other than multi-family since this is just a single-family residence. Mr. Lear commented on this being adjacent to the Pelican Cove West subdivision. Councilwoman Lichter spoke of attending the Planning & Zoning Board meeting when this was discussed. She asked about the situation with the Pelican Cove Clubhouse. She Page 8 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 mentioned a concern of worry that they will be non- conforming. Carl Carder , 1305 Royal Palm Drive, stated there are five additional parking places on that property for the clubhouse. They have seventeen as it is. Mayor Thomas asked if they are giving them five more or taking away five. Mr. Carder stated they are going to try and work something out with the City once they get this rezoned to be able to do something. Councilwoman Rhodes wasn’t sure she understood. Mr. Carder stated they developed the clubhouse and put additional spaces there. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if on the property they want to change, are five of the parking spaces for their clubhouse. Mr. Carder stated it is for their clubhouse but it is unofficial for the clubhouse. They weren’t made to do it. It was worked out way back when. There was a brief discussion regarding the clubhouse being owned by the homeowners association. Councilwoman Rhodes stated so their parking spaces are on land that the applicant owns. Mr. Carder informed her that was correct. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned Mr. Carder allowing them to use the parking spaces. Mr. Carder stated up to this point they didn’t need the land. Now they need the land. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if those spaces are used a lot. Mr. Carder stated they do have what was needed at the time. Councilwoman Rhodes would like to know how many cars are parked in those five spaces on a daily basis. Mr. Carder stated the one thing that was stated in the minutes back in 1991 was that the clubhouse was only supposed to be used by the community. If you open it up to outside activities outside the neighborhood, fifteen or sixteen spaces would not be enough for what they want to do. Councilwoman Lichter explained a scenario about stone walls. If it was back further for ex-number of years, the Page 9 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 property in front of the stone wall, even if the two markers were in front, it became hers. She then asked if that applies to parking spots that are used. City Attorney Rosenthal stated it could but didn’t know if it applied in this case. He further commented on adverse possession. In this case, we haven’t heard a suggestion from anyone whether the association thinks they have some rights to this property. If they hear that, they would have to evaluate that and take it into consideration. Assuming the homeowner’s association doesn’t have any legal right, whoever owns the property would be entitled to do what they wanted to do with the property. He assumed there isn’t any City imposed requirement that says these spaces had to be used for parking spaces associated with this which is why staff is making a recommendation for approval. Mayor Thomas asked if the spaces are paved. Mr. Carder informed him they are concrete. Robert Fuller, 408 Sea Hawk Court, President of the Pelican Cove West Recreation Club, objected to the amount of land that he wants to rezone because it takes in their parking lot. On March 4, 1994, the plans that were submitted to the city included that parking lot. When it was deeded over to them, they did not deed all of it. Then in order for them to get things so they could turn it over to them, they had to provide them with additional parking because the seventeen parking spaces was not enough or required at that time. According to July 30, 1991 in Planning and Zoning the engineer had signed off on the subject site plan however an additional ten feet of property was incorporated in order to accommodate the additional parking required by LDRA. A unity of title should be filed to assure the property remains conforming so the City required that additional parking in order for it to conform to the zoning at that time. He has spoken to the Zoning Board and they said if they lose that parking lot they will be in violation. He questioned what they do then. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if that was true. Mr. Lear informed him that is the first time he is hearing this. Councilwoman Rogers suggested they continue this to June th 19 and look further into it, which she feels would be ample time. Page 10 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Interim City Manager Williams stated the research he has done for this problem there is an indication that an agreement needs to be struck between the owners of Pelican Cove West and the applicant and staff suggested a condition of something be put into the motion stipulating that fact and allow the owners and the applicant to resolve this issue mutually. Mayor Thomas thought everybody was thinking along the same lines. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned if what Mr. Fuller was saying is true. Does the City require them to have those five parking spaces? Mr. Fuller stated it is in the various minutes from years ago. Mr. Lear stated it depends on what the square footage of the clubhouse is. Councilwoman Lichter felt this was mucky and didn’t want to vote on it tonight. She felt they needed two parts to this. First the lawyer’s opinion and second if Interim City Manager Williams feels an agreement is enough between them then she will buy it then but she didn’t like it at the moment. Councilwoman Rogers stated she believed what Mr. Fuller said because he has the minutes and the drawings in front of him. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed but wanted to know why the City didn’t know this and why he can get a staff recommendation when staff has no knowledge of this. Interim City Manager Williams stated they would have to go back and research those minutes and the advice that took place from Council. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned Mr. Fuller attending the Planning & Zoning Board meetings. Mr. Fuller confirmed he had but he got the minutes and the information from the Planning & Zoning. Councilwoman Rhodes feels they need to settle something but if the City is requiring something of them they should know it. City Attorney Rosenthal stated if there was a requirement for the unity of title in the minutes, that would have suggested that some additional land be conveyed by a deed so they would be treated as a single parcel. That is hearing the reading off the top of the head but it sounds like maybe it should have been. Page 11 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter commented on there being problems with that neighborhood with the transfer of rights and the clubhouse. She wants the citizens to be protected in this case. Mayor Thomas asked how much the clubhouse is used and what other uses are there. Mr. Fuller commented on a church that holds service there on Sundays. They use it in the summer time a little bit less but during the winter they have two meetings per month and Florida Health Care uses it for a meeting. At times they could use more parking. Mayor Thomas also mentioned voting there. Mayor Thomas questioned the parking lot being full when they have their monthly meetings. Mr. Fuller informed him yes and they park along the street. Councilwoman Lichter questioned renting it out also for baby showers and dancing. Councilwoman Rogers mentioned also using it for church services. Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, felt it was a sin because she has canvassed the area in Mariners Gate. Those people paid $180,000 and $190,000 and were never told this would be in their front yard, back yard or side yard. They are so disgusted and dismayed because it is lowering their property values along with traffic. She feels the parcel is too small to accommodate all those homes in there along with parking. It seems that the developer gave Pelican Cove West a facility to maybe be taken away later because they so deemed they could use that and fill it up and make more money for the developer. She didn’t feel this was fair. She felt the people should also be included in an agreement, not just in Pelican Cove West but also the people that live in Mariners Gate. She didn’t feel any of them wanted it. It is lowering their property values. They have pools right across from it. She felt it was a sad state of affairs if it goes in. Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated before this came to his attention the first time, he went out there and talked to the person who was the nearest person in the Mariners Gate development. At that time, that individual didn’t remember having received any notification that this was coming up for a change of any sort. He discussed it with Page 12 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 them then but they didn’t have a clue of what this was. His biggest concern in regard to this piece of property is that at the Planning and Zoning meeting, they heard Mr. Carder say that they really need to get an understanding with the people in the homeowners association in regard to this and they could work on that. That was six or eight weeks ago. They apparently haven’t made any good work toward getting an understanding of this. He feels they need to put a time limit on it to get an understanding. If they can’t get an understanding with the homeowners association, he felt the Council needed to deny it. Mr. Carder felt they needed a three way meeting with the City involved to come up with some creative process to be able to share this land. So far they haven’t been able to do that. Mayor Thomas asked City Attorney Rosenthal if that was possible. City Attorney Rosenthal informed him he would like to know what is going on before the City attends that meeting. Mr. Carder stated they have sat down and discussed with Mr. Lear several different aspects of what they can do. Nothing fits into anything that is on the books. They talked about easements, sharing a driveway, sharing the parking, put their garage on that side and share the driveway. It may open a can of worms in the future but if you had some sort of agreement anything can work but nothing fits into anything the City has and that is their problem there. They don’t need it all but they do have to meet the setbacks. If they were to build on this they still have a variance to be able to fit a home on this property. They need some help from the City to resolve this problem. They have no problem sharing the parking but they have problems with once they strike a line, they were going to take 89 feet and give them the rest for their parking. Then it came back that once they struck the line, they couldn’t have concrete right on the line so they had to cut five more feet off the parking lot which would then make it not work. Because of the rules they are trying to work with, they can’t come up with any kind of compromise. Councilwoman Lichter felt they just needed to look at the legal. It may be more clear-cut than they think. Page 13 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Mr. Carder stated they have no problem sharing the area but they need some cooperation also. Mr. Lear felt there was some confusion on where this parcel is. He pointed out the parcel on an aerial photo and described it as being at the corner where Falcon Avenue and Mariners Gate intersect. He pointed out the parcel he thought Ms. Stoughton was talking about, which was Tuscany Villas. Mr. Lear suggested they have some sort of cross access easement or joint use driveway. They have always said that and they said maybe at some point, you aren’t issued a C.O. until this is worked out between the applicant and the homeowners association. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter asked Councilwoman Rogers if she already did it. Councilwoman Rogers stated she did do a motion to continue it. Councilwoman Rhodes seconded the motion. Mayor Thomas stated the motion was to postpone it. Councilwoman Rogers stated to a date certain being June th 19. City Attorney Rosenthal stated that is continuing the first reading and public hearing. At that time, they could reopen the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter stated she would second it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she had seconded it. City Clerk Wadsworth asked Councilwoman Rogers if her earlier suggestion was a motion to continue to a date th certain, either thirty days or June 19. Councilwoman Rogers informed her yes. Motion was previously seconded by Councilwoman Rhodes. The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting recessed at 8:00 and reconvened at 8:12 p.m. Page 14 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Mayor Thomas presented an update on the fires. They are evacuating Magnolia Village. We have lost no structures at this point. nd D.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-01, Scott Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, (River Oaks) requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 30.01+ acres of land located east of US1 and north of Jones Fish Camp Road and approval of the associated RPUD Agreement City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-01 into the record. He pointed out to Council they had a copy of the residential planned unit development between the City and AH Edgewater LLC. There were a couple of minor changes in that from what was in the agenda packet. This was revised in response to the action at the first reading. Staff has reviewed the changes, which are highlighted in red and agrees it is consistent with the discussions between the city and the developer. They recommended, assuming there is a motion to approve the ordinance, it includes the amendment, the PUD agreement, as before the Council as amended. He reminded everyone this is currently the subject of a cert petition brought by the applicant, which is pending in the court. Should this matter be approved by the Council on terms acceptable to the City and the applicant, that would effectively bring a conclusion to the litigation. The record of all the prior hearings are part of the record of this proceeding. Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizen spoke: Dot Carlson , 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD, asked Council to not vote yes on the second reading of this ordinance. It does not fit the Comprehensive Plan use in this area. There are just homes there and are no high rises in this area at this time. It doesn’t fit. She th commented on a lawsuit in the 4 District Court of Appeals, Stuart Florida, Martin County. This is Pinecrest Lakes Inc appellants verses Karen Shydel, appellee, as case #4D99- 2641. She commented on the developer having to remove his townhouses because it did not fit the plan. She asked Page 15 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Council to think long and hard about this and table it or vote no. City Attorney Rosenthal stated from a legal standpoint that is a correct statement. A structure, which is built, which is inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan is not a proper approval and there is a case where the courts ordered the demolition of the structure. That isn’t the facts presented in this case. Staff has looked at this and told Council this project is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan from a land use standpoint. That is a correct case but is not applicable to this situation. Councilwoman Rogers stated if staff is saying this is consistent but questioned if City Attorney Rosenthal was also going to say it is consistent. City Attorney Rosenthal stated the future land use designation is high density residential with conservation overlay and this fits within the max density of the Comprehensive Plan. It fits within the height of the existing code. Councilwoman Rogers stated only because the term high rise is in there and that doesn’t specify. Ms. Carlson stated the citizens of Edgewater are going to be outraged if and when this high rise goes in. She commented on the density and height petition she is running. She has 1,353 petitions to get this on a ballot for a Charter amendment. If this goes forward, ECARD could do a referendum petition and petition the citizens of Edgewater for an appeal. It would take thirty days, but she is willing to go for it. This high rise does not fit. City Attorney Rosenthal stated obviously any future amendments wouldn’t affect a previously approved project of the Council. Ms. Carlson stated that is not according to the City Charter. Carol Ann Stoughton , 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she has been down to the Jones Fish Camp Road area. No one wants it in their back yard. Either does Terra Mar or Hacienda del Rio. Even though they are in the County, they don’t have the opportunity to voice their opinion. It is sad that they could not include these people in their petition. She has been out soliciting petitions of over 700 people she collected herself and no one wants it. If it came to a vote today, it would go down the tubes. It just so happens high density doesn’t mean seventeen stories high. The Page 16 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 people don’t want it, the developers do. She asked if these people would lose their jobs because the developer has not told the perspective buyers that there is a 1,200 employee situation that could go down the tubes. She saw the town homes in Marion County tour down. She feels Council should consider the fact that the people in the area do not want this road of Alice and Nellie Streets vacated. It evidently is a way in for the developer to go ahead and try to get what he shouldn’t be getting in the first place. She asked the Council to put themselves in the position of living in the Jones Fish Camp Road area. It’s not just eye for eye. Everybody should be considered in this matter. All for one and that is the way it should be. Mike Thompson , 1089 Volco Road, stated he was asked to write a disclaimer. He is the political chair of the Volusia/Flagler Sierra Club. He is the voting issues person for the State of Florida Sierra Club and he is the voting issues person for the ACLU for Volusia/Flagler County. Every time he comes to meetings, he hears the same song. If they don’t do what the land developers want, they are going to sue you. You can sue anybody for any reason. It is time for the City to decide whether the City runs the City or whether the lawyers for the land developers run the City. They need to tell them it is our City and we will run it the way we want to run it and if you see fit to sue us, pack a lunch. Pat Card , 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated it is our City. Some people have a postal address in the City that to his knowledge currently we haven’t had any voluntary annexations on Volco Road, which means that the Sierra Club member is a resident of the County. Mr. Card stated we have thirty acres of prime, first class, beautiful land down there. The simple part of it is it is either going to be green or have ticky tacky houses all over it. They heard people say the other night they wanted green and he thinks most of the people didn’t understand what they were talking about. This developer is willing to put a conservation easement on this and put it in the hands of three governmental units. The conservation easement is going to be saved for the wildlife of that area in perpetuity. It is private property now so anybody that goes fishing is trespassing. That is the right of the property owner. It’s not going to be public. Nobody is Page 17 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 asking this individual to be public. What they are trying to save it for is the critters down there. He then spoke of having less than 40% occupancy in this type of a high- rise condominium. There will be less cars on the road then if they put all the ticky tacky houses in there. It is going to be almost $1 million per year in tax revenue. The Council can throw it away if they want to but he has seen them throw some money away in the last six months. Dave Ross , 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated he wasn’t for or against it. It is a shame that the previous Council let them come to the point where we have to have 200-foot high rises or 30 acres of ticky tacky houses. There is the problem. They need to stop that trend. It should never have come to that point where the gentleman had the ability to say what he was going to do. They should have told him two years ago what he could do and neither one of those should have been his option. Therein is the problem and they need to fix it. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Rogers stated this is the second reading. She voted no on the first reading and is still going to vote no. She received a lot of comments from people telling her they are happy she voted no and they hope that she will continue to vote no and that others will continue and perhaps change their mind back to what it was initially for various reasons. She has had comments made that there are citizens that are not concerned about the fees the City would incur to defend the City to go against the developer on this project. She spoke of getting ready to get into the budget. She feels they are going to find money in various places. The values of homes have gone up. There are a lot of people that don’t have property homesteaded in the City. She believes they will come across the revenues they need to support the defense they will need in a potential lawsuit continuing if this so needs to occur. That is if their vote tonight is a positive vote. She stated the City doesn’t have anything like this, 190 feet tall buildings. The City of New Smyrna Beach, their height is lower than that. They have oceanfront property, not riverfront, not adjacent to rural neighborhoods and not adjacent to people that have lived here a long time. She is aware it isn’t in the land use code and shame on the old land use code and it is about time it gets looked at and changed. Page 18 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Councilwoman Rhodes stated the time to stop this was a long time ago and she tried to and it didn’t work so we live with what we have. She has no problem sinking every dime this City has fighting this condo. If she thought they could win she would do it. They are going to spend all our money and we are still going to have the condos. There comes a time when you cut your losses, you do the best you can and do what is best for the City. At this point in time, the only options they have are ticky tacky little houses or a conservation overlay and a couple of condominiums that she guesses after they are built you won’t know they are there unless you are far away and you see the top of the roof. She feels this is a better option and most people she speaks to feel this is a better option. That is what she will vote for because she isn’t going to take the city’s money and throw it down the drain. Our lawyer has advised us that is what is going to occur. Her vote will be to allow the towers. Councilwoman Lichter felt Councilwoman Rhodes put very well what she feels. She knows what was said to her by the lawyer in this firm that she trusts concerning this case and she keeps that in mind. She also knows the pros and cons and in the beginning she was a bit shocked by the height and she saw the land that was being left and the trees and the green and the animals and the permitting they went through and got passed. She feels if they don’t vote yes, she thinks it might be a very nice contribution. Everything in a community does not have to be the same. People like different types of housing. She spoke of the school system not being impacted by the people that will be coming down for part of a year. She stated they made a deal with the developers. She would be voting yes. Mayor Thomas stated since he has been in office he lost a little bit of sleep. He has lost a bunch of sleep over this. There is no doubt that this is a well laid out project. They are going to leave 22 acres of pristine land. If we don’t let them do this, then the next option is going to be concrete and there won’t be anything left. He doesn’t want condos in Edgewater and he is very proud of the grass root movement right now to get petitions for the Charter. He has conferred with his legal counsel. He agreed with Councilwoman Rhodes that they are going to spend a bunch of money and we will get thrown out the door and they are going to be able to do what they want any way Page 19 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 and we aren’t going to get the $300,000 for the fishing pier out front. He will be voting with a heavy heart for it. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-01, Scott Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, (River Oaks) requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 30.01+ acres of land located east of US1 and north of Jones Fish Camp Road and approval of the associated RPUD Agreement as amended, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO . E. Res. No. 2006-R-03, Scott Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, requesting the abandonment/vacation of portions of Alice Street and Nellie Street, which are within the River Oaks Condominium project City Attorney Rosenthal read Res. 2006-R-03 into the record. Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rogers questioned why this wasn’t done initially before the RPUD. Scott Tobin , 2970 S. Atlantic Ave, Daytona Beach Shores, stated this was submitted to the Zoning Board at the same time as the PUD. City staff decided not to put it on the agenda for council until the zoning agreement was taken care of. This passed the Planning & Zoning Board at about the same time the initial application went in. Councilwoman Rogers stated when you have two streets and a large tract of land like this, initially perhaps whoever owned this property, this property was intended to be developed and these were intended to be roads into that proposed development years ago. She asked if there has been any research. Mr. Tobin stated it appears it was to provide access to be able to break this property up into smaller lots. Now that they have a development agreement in place, which will combine all these piece of property into one project, the streets are not serving any purpose. The portion of Alice Street that they are asking to be Page 20 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 abandoned starts at Jones Fish Camp Road at their property line and terminates at their northern boundary line. The portion of Nellie Street has never been opened either but it is just the portion within their lot line. The section between their southerly property line and Jones Fish Camp Road would be going through somebody’s yard if this street was ever opened up. Councilwoman Rogers stated by asking the city to vacate or abandon this, they are assuming the City owns this. Mr. Tobin stated they are easements of record and they are asking for those easements to be vacated. Councilwoman Rogers stated easement of record as of what date. City Attorney Rosenthal stated it is a platted road. If the City didn’t have an interest in it, they wouldn’t be before the Council asking to have it vacated. The City does have an interest in it as a road. The sequencing is it wouldn’t have made sense if you vacated it first and then didn’t approve the PUD because then you would have lots of record that would not have access. With the PUD approved now which has a Master Plan that shows a different transportation network for a combination of the lots, the position is from a public purpose standpoint there is now no longer any reason for the public to have a road going through the property because that would be inconsistent with the PUD Master Plan which Council just approved. Councilwoman Rogers asked to see the slide where it shows the roads. When the property was annexed into the City, it was in Volusia County. She questioned this being three or four piece of property. Mr. Tobin informed her it is multiple piece of property. The PUD consists of twelve individual parcels. She had a problem with the abandonment because she went through an abandonment with the City. She knew the City didn’t own something the city said they did. It turned out after she further investigated that at one time it appeared the State owned it then the State didn’t own it then the City who said they owned it didn’t own it and it turned out that it was owned by a gentleman from the 1900’s. She had to quiet title the property. You cross a lot of legal lines when you are dealing with abandonment and roads and there were multiple property owners here. She asked City Attorney Rosenthal if he has had an opportunity to go through the multiple parcels and done some research. Page 21 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 City Attorney Rosenthal stated when the City passes a vacation of a road, the City does not render any opinion as to title matters. That is now a matter between them and their title company and their title issues. The general rule is when a right-of-way is abandoned you go down the middle of the abandoned right-of-way one half each to the adjoining property owner on each side of the right-of-way. That is the general statement of law regarding an abandonment of right-of-way. When they come in and apply to the City, they will provide a title opinion and the various title work that will include the abandoned right- of-way. As a general statement, if they receive a title policy or attorney’s opinion regarding title, they would accept that. He further spoke of not doing independent research. This vacation in that sense isn’t really any different from any other vacation. If there is a third party that has an interest in the road, title to the road as opposed to access through it, their interest would not be extinguished by this action. Councilwoman Rhodes confirmed the City is saying we aren’t going to have use of it. City Attorney Rosenthal informed her that was correct. Councilwoman Rhodes also confirmed they aren’t saying they own it, they are just saying the City would not be using it. Mr. Tobin stated they did submit deeds to the property along with title reports to the City as part of this application. Councilwoman Rogers commented on a situation where property owners on each side of the road own up to the middle of the road and seeing situations where the road is owned by another party and would have rights. In the State of Florida you cannot have land locked. She expressed concern if there has been any research done on that middle road. Mr. Tobin informed her they have provided a title policy that provides clear title to all of the lots on both sides of those roads. Councilwoman Rogers stated she has been involved where title policies have been issued in error. City Attorney Rosenthal stated if the land underlying the paper roads, which are the subject of the vacation resolution, are owned by a third party, not the City, then the result of that is if that third party appears and comes forward and makes their presence known, the vacation resolution would basically be of no effect and the City would say it was a matter between them and the third party. Page 22 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 They sort it out and bring a quiet title action. In the absence of somebody coming in and challenging or bringing something to the City’s attention was a general statement they rely on the attorney’s title opinion or title policy presented to us and don’t go behind that. Councilwoman Rhodes stated by vacating the right of way, we aren’t saying we own the road. We never said we owned the road. City Attorney Rosenthal stated and you aren’t saying they own the road afterwards. Councilwoman Rogers stated there is more to it than meets the eye when it comes the vacating issue. Councilwoman Rhodes stated but that’s their issue, not our issue. Councilwoman Rogers stated but at the same time, the Council should perform some prudent due diligence and she is asking these questions, which she feels she has a right to. City Attorney Rosenthal stated there is advertising and notice to adjacent property owners, which is intended to flush out things if there is somebody out there. Historically, if you are going to run into a problem like this you dig back and find out somebody from the late 1800’s or early 1900’s owns it and maybe there is a gap in title and the third or fourth generation of heirs may not show up. We would just rely on the title work presented to the City. Councilwoman Rhodes would like Councilwoman Rogers to be right only because they could halt this project. As it stands now, these are roads to nowhere and she doesn’t think there is any use swimming against the tide. She feels they need to be done with this. Councilwoman Lichter stated there are plenty of old parcels in the City that are land locked. She mentioned one on Riverside Drive. Mayor Thomas stated when they drew the big plan years ago and this was differently zoned, they drew lines for proposed roads. It is different now. He believed the title search would show those roads are paper roads that show the current land use and how it was going to do. He believed it was going to be the landowner owns both sides Page 23 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 of the road. He doesn’t think the City or County owns. They wanted the people to have access to their home lots. He doesn’t feel they are giving up anything. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. The following citizens spoke: Dave Ross , 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated it would appear on the surface, the paper roads they are talking about, that there is no interest on the City or for the City. There is great interest on the developer’s part. He’s got two options, either give the citizens of the County access to his property or he can put up chain link fences around those roads and reroute his entryway. He stated Councilwoman Rhodes said these were roads to nowhere. He proposed to Council that these are roads to a down payment for a new City Hall. It would seem to him that $1,000 per unit to be donated to another capital fund for the City, payable to the City, at an appropriate time would be appropriate changing things prior to vacating these rights- of-way. Pat Card , 3019 Willow Oak Drive, complimented Councilwoman Rogers. He feels we have to think about where we can get ourselves between a rock and a hard place. That is all Councilwoman Rogers is talking about. We would all like to find a way out of this. He reminded the Council he was one of the people that wanted a way out of this but he was voted down all the way around. Now that we are here it is the thing to do. Our attorney ahs told us we don’t’ have a problem with it. He thinks they out to go ahead with it. He wanted to compliment Councilwoman Rogers because she is doing the right thing by asking questions. Dot Carlson , 1714 Edgewater Drive, complimented all of the Council on a hard decision. She feels Council has learned a lesson and so have the people in Edgewater. Let’s not get ourselves there again. Ms. Carlson informed Councilwoman Lichter she wasn’t referring to her about not wanting the land. When Mr. Storch presented this to her on that conservation, she loved it. She will crawl through any type of vegetation to save the wildlife and she has done it. It is the height the people in Edgewater are having a problem with. If it is damaged during hurricanes, she hoped our insurance doesn’t go up. If it is catches on fire, she hopes we can afford the fire truck to put it out. Page 24 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2006-R-03, Scott Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, requesting the abandonment/vacation of portions of Alice Street and Nellie Street, which are within the River Oaks Condominium project, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO . F. Res. No. 2006-R-05, renewing Interlocal Agreement for Fire/Rescue Service Mutual Aid within Volusia County City Attorney Rosenthal read Res. 2006-R-05 into the record. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Res. 2006-R-05, renewing Interlocal Agreement for Fire/Rescue Service Mutual Aid within Volusia County, second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . 7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS There were no Board Appointments at this time. 8. CONSENT AGENDA There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda at this time. 9. OTHER BUSINESS A.Agreement – staff recommending approval of a Memorandum of Agreement between the City of Edgewater and Pet Society, Inc. for volunteer assistance with the operation of the Animal Shelter, cont. from 4/17/06, Item 9A Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rogers commented on this costing more than they originally anticipated. She questioned Interim City Page 25 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Manager Williams comment about this breaking even in two to three years. Interim City Manager Williams stated within a five-year period, the City should be somewhere around a break-even point. He further commented on adoption revenues, grant opportunities and donations. Councilwoman Rogers has heard from people that didn’t vote for the animal shelter that initially the funding was to build the facility and that it wasn’t going to cost the citizens any money but it is costing the citizens money because they are pulling money from the General Fund. Interim City Manager Williams explained prior to breaking out this into it’s own separate department, they would have budgeted the personnel and some operating costs associated with providing animal services in our community services department or code enforcement. They would have had those costs vary within that department. With the approval of the shelter, there were issues brought forward about having this designated as it’s own department. That was their ultimate goal and they have done just that. Councilwoman Rogers mentioned saving $44,000 a year by not using the Southeast Volusia Humane Society. Councilwoman Rhodes stated always in the budget they budgeted for animal control. Terrible things were done to animals and they tried to get the Humane Society to hold Edgewater animals instead of three days and that cost us more money to do that so we did that but then they wouldn’t do it and they wouldn’t let us see their financial records which was a problem for the City because they wanted to know where the money was going and coming from and they didn’t want to. The upshot of that was that Edgewater has for three years been housing animals in cages all over the City. She commented on the Pet Society working so hard for the animals. She would rather spend the money on this than on the City Attorney. It is going to cost the City some money and has always cost the City some money. She feels the ultimate goal is to have it break even and she feels they have that goal in all of the departments. She is so in favor of this and is so thankful the Pet Society does this and she appreciated that somebody else could. Councilwoman Lichter felt it was best that she didn’t speak due to being a member of the Pet Society. She will just keep washing the clothes every morning at the shelter with the cold water until they get a shovel in the ground. Page 26 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Mayor Thomas visited the animal shelter. He commented on how excellent they are doing. It was clean. He suggested they include in the motion that the voters provided $500,000 for the facility. He would like to have a check six months or a year down the road once it gets running to make sure we are on budget. He is all for it. Councilwoman Lichter questioned already doing that. Interim City Manager Williams stated they do and in the agreement itself it provides for an annual review. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned the Pet society having to divulge their budget over the year. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Memorandum of Agreement between the City of Edgewater and Pet Society, Inc. for volunteer assistance with the operation of the Animal Shelter, second by Councilwoman Rogers . The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . Councilwoman Rogers stated the report they received from Mr. Williams this evening that wasn’t in the agenda packet initially does explain it better and clearly identifies some facts as well as indicating in the notes we are saving an average of $44,000 per year and it is not conveyed in the actual report. She feels that is important to know. B.Agreement – approval of Agreement between the City of Edgewater and Jon Williams for Interim City Manager Councilwoman Rogers spoke of Jon Williams being Interim City Manager and eventually having to find a Finance Manager. He has been doing an excellent job as the Finance Manager. This is a concern. Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned reviewing this in October. She suggested in six months either the interim goes away or Mr. Williams goes away. Interim City Manager Williams informed her that is specified in the agreement. Mayor Thomas stated they better keep the Finance Director position open then. Councilwoman Rhodes feels he can’t Page 27 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 hang out as the Interim City Manager forever. He needs to be the City Manager or not. Interim City Manager Williams asked Council to make this effective as a result of their actions that took place on st May 1. City Attorney Rosenthal stated the term says it nd starts on May 2. He felt the effective date of the actual agreement would be tonight but the term says it is nd, retroactive to May 2which would also include the compensation calculations. Councilwoman Lichter stated she is pleased so far with her interaction with Interim City Manager Williams. She felt it was good to have people that know the area take responsibility and positions of leadership. Sometimes when you advertise and go to different extremes and you get someone from out of state they don’t work out as well as people who have a feeling for a community. She hopes this works itself into a permanent situation. She spoke of staff having a great respect for Mr. Williams. Mayor Thomas commented on Interim City Manager Williams leaving himself for raises in the agreement and he was happy with the $500 car allowance. He commented on Mr. Williams being at the fires and allowing him to go home and take a shower. He mentioned him being at the Planning & Zoning Board meeting on Wednesday night. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approval of Agreement between the City of Edgewater and Jon Williams for Interim City Manager with his term starting May 2nd, second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . C.Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I – staff recommending approval of Project Close-out of the Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I and Change Order #1 (Final) reducing the contract amount from $831,401.50 to $804,305.50 and authorizing the Mayor or Interim City Manager to execute the documents Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rhodes commented on this being the first May that they don’t have people complaining about paying for Page 28 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 the water and not receiving it. She is glad it was under budget. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the Project Close-out of the Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I and Change Order #1 (Final) reducing the contract amount from $831,401.50 to $804,305.50 and authorizing the Mayor or Interim City Manager to execute the documents, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 4-0 . 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney Rosenthal had nothing at this time. C. City Manager Interim City Manager Williams stated we are in full transition. It seems they have a lot of issues they are dealing with at hand. He thanked the Council for taking time out of their schedules to sit down and meet with him. After discussing some of the bigger issues the City is faced with, there seems to be a general consensus amongst the Council with some slight variations. As they move forward they will see him bring back a proposal or allow him to work on a vision statement to help address some of the growth issues that the City is currently challenged with. They will try to seek some involvement from the Planning and Zoning Board and the Economic Development Board. He then commented on internal staff related issues they are addressing. They are trying to sit down and establish a relationship with all of our staff. He set this as a personal goal for himself so he could address the overall morale of the City. Interim City Manager Williams then further commented on reclaimed water rates. They hope to bring some proposals back to Council in July to discuss where we are. He has been looking at the consumptions to try to move towards an appropriate amount of water to provide for everybody. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE Page 29 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 The following citizen spoke: Linda Garrett , 1410 Orange Tree Drive, asked why the increase proposal that has been mailed to them jumped so much. She moved in eight years ago and it was five dollars, then it jumped up to ten. They had some sod replaced and it is up to $18.00 and she has a single house. She then asked if this price for residential the same that commercial places are charged and if they are charged the same rate for the same usage. She also asked about how condos are charged. She felt the increased usage should be divided by more people due to growth in the city. She didn’t understand why it jumped that much for a single person. She commented on some of her neighbors cutting back due to over watering. She feels they will see some of this. Interim City Manager Williams explained the reclaimed water is provided primarily to residential customers. There may be a few commercial customers in the mix. It is centrally located within the Florida Shores subdivision. He summarized what has occurred over the years. He mentioned discovering there were issues with the system, which required upgrades, which increased the money charged to the customer. He spoke of still having supply issues. He commented on the City installing reclaimed water meters and establishing the consumption or inclined rate structure to try and deal with the supply and demand issue and the pressure problems. The current rate structure they hope will raise each person’s awareness. They are going to try and bring back a more acceptable number. There was a brief discussion regarding the reclaimed water only being available in Florida Shores and the City using some of the reclaimed water to water some of the medians. Mayor Thomas commented on St. John’s River Water Management District feeling the reclaimed water is a viable water commodity and they wanted to restrict the use. Councilwoman Lichter commented on being on the Water Authority of Volusia as well as the Water Alliance and St. Johns having control over our consumptive use permit for the whole City. What every City thought was a throw away product turned out to be a commodity and St. John’s Page 30 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 tightened up how they want the cities to do it. She spoke of some of the cities not doing good conservation measures. Ms. Garrett asked if the meters are ever tested to make sure they are calculating right. Interim City Manager Williams stated if they receive complaints of questionable consumption they send the field guys out to address those issues. Rose Sugg , 1419 Orange Tree Drive, stated they built a house in Florida Shores about four years ago and it was only $5 or $10 for the reclaimed water and everybody thought that was a good deal. She doesn’t think anybody in the area believes they shouldn’t be raising it. Their house is built in the middle of four lots so they have a little more land to water than everybody else. She also questioned only Florida Shores having reclaimed water. Councilwoman Lichter commented on putting in a well fifteen years ago that cost her $15,000. Ms. Sugg asked about being able to put in a well. Councilwoman Rhodes stated until St. Johns tells you you can’t use your well. Councilwoman Lichter stated some do have wells in Florida Shores. Ms. Sugg asked if the Council will have input or if St. Johns going to be the only one. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her it would be the City. Ms. Sugg suggested they increase the gallons for the rate. She spoke of paying more taxes due to having four lots. Mayor Thomas had a questioned posed to him how the rate was structure for people that have more than two lots. Interim City Manager Williams explained well permits are restricted at this point when there is reclaimed water available. He commented on the methodology they are looking into right now for people with larger lots. Councilwoman Lichter commented on the developers being encouraged to put in more waterless plants and grass. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the taxes have nothing to do with your water use. Water use is paid for by the user. Your taxes are paid according to a millage rate and it is Page 31 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 the same for everybody. One really has nothing to do with the other. Ms. Sugg commented on throwing away her letter informing her of her consumption due to the City not charging for the reclaimed water at this time. She spoke of being more aware of what comes in the mail and trying to be a more active participant. She gave the Council a lot of credit for what they do. Mayor Thomas stated the ultimate goal is to reduce the water consumption. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thought the ultimate goal with reclaimed water is to use as much as you have and not use more or less. If you use less, you have to dump it. They are not out to make money on reclaimed water. It pays for itself. Ms. Garrett asked about being able to water two days a week. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they recommend two but with the reclaimed water they are allowed three. Interim City Manager Williams stated that would be our recommendation to help address the supply issue. Dave Ross , 2803 Needle Palm Drive, congratulated Interim City Manager Williams. Mr. Ross asked what is the nature of our future growth? This question remains unanswered. Most of the land that will comprise our future growth is currently outside the City limits and is excluded from our Comprehensive Plan per State Statutes. The public in general has little to no knowledge regarding the direction growth will take in these newly annexed areas. He believes this causes a lot of consternation within the citizenry. There are at least five distinct areas that need to be studied, conclusions reached regarding the proper use of the land as it relates to the future growth of our City. Some of these lands are within the existing City limits; most do not. If we are to manage our growth in a smart way, it seems appropriate the Council should hold a series of public hearings and/or workshops to study and discuss the issues and options and finalize by vote. He thinks if it is possible they should attach a policy statement to our Comprehensive Plan. He asked if there is a question or issue that has more immediate importance in the short and long terms than what we are going to do with growth. He feels they need a public statement by Council what they are going to do. Page 32 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006 Pat Card , 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated what Mr. Ross is really talking about is a vision for this City for the next twenty years and forty years. They have to come together on this thing. He supported Mr. Ross’ proposal. A. Tentative Agenda Items There were no Tentative Agenda items to be discussed at this time. 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 33 of 33 Council Regular Meeting May 15, 2006