05-15-2006 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 15, 2006
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Excused
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
Interim City Manager Jon Williams Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
City Attorney Paul Rosenthal Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A.Chief Ignasiak presenting Officer Robert
Hazelwood a plaque for “Officer of the Quarter”.
Chief Ignasiak was not present due to helping direct
traffic due to the fires.
B. Elden McDirmit/Kelly Leary, McDirmit, Davis,
Puckett, presenting the Comprehensive Annual
Financial Report (CAFR) for fiscal year ended
September 30, 2005
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Interim City Manager Williams informed Council if any of
the members didn’t have a CAFR tonight, City Clerk
Wadsworth had a copy.
Interim City Manager Williams commented on this being a
culmination of our fiscal year end for 2005. He has
reviewed the report and is fairly pleased with the overall
steps the City has made.
Elden McDirmit briefly went through the CAFR and
highlighted a few things. They issued an unqualified
report, which is the cleanest or best opinion they can give
the financial statements of the City. Overall the city is
very sound financially. He commented on the total assets
and the debt of the City.
Mr. McDirmit commented on the fund balance of the General
Fund. He commended the Council and staff for the
significant increase that was made to the General Fund
balance this year. Last year it was 4% of the budgeted
expenditures. This year it increased to 11% of the
budgeted expenditures. That kind of significant increase
for one year is great. The Charter states 15% is where the
City should be at. He mentioned the City talking about not
budgeting any of the fund balance until they have grown it
to the range they feel they need it to be. He then went
over the General Fund as it compares to the budget for the
year.
Mr. McDirmit then commented on the Financial Statements,
Balance Sheet and Income Statements for the proprietary
type funds such as the Water & Sewer Fund, the Sanitation
Fund and the Stormwater Fund. The Water & Sewer Fund
showed an increase in the operating revenue. The
Sanitation Fund, they reversed a loss in the fund from last
year. They showed a surplus for this year. He spoke of
having a loss last year in the Stormwater Fund and they had
a negative fund balance or equity position in that in the
unrestricted area and this year they increased the deficit
again. That is one the areas they want to help the City
target and look at for next year to try and turn around
that loss.
Mr. McDirmit commented on the Compliance Reports. They are
very positive and there is no areas of material weakness in
the internal control and that the City complied with all
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
financial related matters with laws regulations and grants
the city had to follow.
Mr. McDirmit then went over the Management Letter.
Mr. McDirmit thanked Interim City Manager Williams and his
staff for the cooperation they provide. It is a pleasure
to work with them.
Councilwoman Rogers had comments but wanted to wait until
she spent some one-on-one time with Interim City Manager
Williams over some specific questions.
There were no other Council comments at this time.
4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on receiving a call from Mr.
Heller who said he was trying to call City Hall and
couldn’t get through. He had a rotary phone and if you
didn’t have a button to push you couldn’t get City Hall.
She felt this might be critical in a hurricane or a
disaster. She contacted Assistant City Manager Liz McBride
and Tim Sopko and Mr. Sopko had it fixed in one day. She
thanked him for fixing it so quickly.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the Charter Revision
Commission taking place now. They have some up with some
different interpretations and recommendations then the
present WAV setup. Maybe a different type of Water
Authority. She mentioned Daytona wanting to pull out of
the WAV Group due to not wanting to pay their money. And
other cities that buy water for them being affected. It is
very interesting. The structure in the end may be five
people. The funding would also be different. They are
thinking of taking a small percent of the sales tax and
letting all of the water projects be funded by that. That
would take a referendum, an act from the State and several
other things. This will be discussed Wednesday at the WAV
meeting. She commented on the recommendation from the
Environmental Group with regard to creating a Water Policy
Review Commission. Change might be on the way.
Mayor Thomas stated it was brought to her attention today
by City Clerk Wadsworth that Mr. Hooper was on the Growth
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Management Commission and due to this resignation, they
need a replacement. He would like to appoint Karen Hall,
who previously served on the Growth Management Commission.
Mayor Thomas presented an update on the fires out by I-95.
He is very proud of our fire team. He commented on the
need for different types of heavy equipment to fight forest
fires.
5. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Ferd Heeb
, 115 N. Riverside Drive, commented on an article
in the newspapers regarding the State of Florida and
Volusia County studying the widening of Clyde Morris Blvd.
through Ormond Beach and the expansion of LPGA to SR 44
even though there was no money. Then there was a notice of
a public hearing that they want to six-lane Clyde Morris
from Beville Road to International Speedway. He feels we
are getting a preview of US 1 in ten years. The fires have
shown us just how well US 1 can handle traffic. With the
growth occurring south of Roberts Road and to come in ten
years, that’s what US 1 is going to look at and nothing is
being done for another north-south corridor. He feels the
natural straight-line corridor is from Beacon Light Road
and Halifax in Oak Hill all the way to Nova. He spoke of
Southeast Volusia being the stepchild when it comes to road
dollars. The real problem is the fact that southeast
Volusia doesn’t speak with one voice. Until there is a
coalition and an understanding between Oak Hill, New Smyrna
and Edgewater, we aren’t going to see those dollars. There
is nothing on the drawing board to help us out for the next
twenty years. He recommended a coalition between the three
cities. He feels Edgewater is going to explode and they
have a lot of land to develop on the east side of I-95 and
it is going to happen and nobody in Oak Hill can go
anywhere without going through Edgewater and we can’t go
anywhere without going through New Smyrna. All three of
these cities and their traffic and their growth impact each
other. He suggested the three cities get together and
start making something happen.
Mayor Thomas stated they meet monthly with Port Orange, New
Smyrna and Jack Hayman and they discussed these issues. He
put Councilwoman Rogers on the MPO Board and she has
discussed some of the concerns. He spoke of two major
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
roads coming through Hammock Creek that is going to end up
at SR 442.
Councilwoman Rogers mentioned the cost to build roads.
This is a pet peeve of hers especially with the changes
they are proposing to the Land Development Code. She
further commented on having transportation problems. With
all of the developments and the fact that there is no
money, and it costs approximately $1 million to build one
mile of road and we don’t have any roads on this side of I-
95. There are two roads that will be north and south,
Williamson Boulevard and the Airport Road extension. She
is trying to slow down growth as much as possible because
we need these roads in place. They need to know they are
going to happen before they approve any more developments,
especially high density.
Mayor Thomas stated at the last VCOG meeting they addressed
the new roads and we aren’t getting anything like the other
people are.
Mr. Heeb stated his biggest concern is getting three cities
together and agreeing on how they are going to deal with
the transportation in Southeast Volusia.
Mayor Thomas guaranteed they are working on this.
Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned meeting regularly with New
Smyrna, Oak Hill and Port Orange. They are doing it again
in June and they have discussed these things in the past.
Unfortunately with no money, there isn’t much you can do.
She mentioned the 5% tax that the County put on gas being
for roads and questioned where it is. Mr. Heeb stated
north of us.
Councilwoman Rogers asked Interim City Manager Williams if
he would be taking Mr. Hooper’s place on this group. Mayor
Thomas informed her he appointed Karen Hall earlier.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she didn’t know this has to do
with that committee. Interim City Manager Williams
informed her they would be having a joint meeting with the
cities of New Smyrna Beach and Port Orange and
transportation will be a topic of discussion.
Councilwoman Rogers again asked Interim City Manager
Williams if he would be taking City Manager Hooper’s place
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May 15, 2006
on the group that discussed transportation. Interim City
Manager Hooper stated he would assume so.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she asked to have those items
brought to her attention and the things Interim City
Manager Williams discussed, she wanted to know about it and
it wasn’t presented to her. She wants it presented to her
at this point and to keep her abreast of this. She is
going to be very hard on developers and the future growth
until they get this down. Until they have the money and
the land in place, they really need to slow down
development. If the developers want to develop, they need
to come up with some solutions.
Ed Keenan
, 1905 Pine Tree Drive, stated he recently wrote
the governor a letter concerning the roads, particularly I-
95. He mentioned I-95 being three and four lanes from Ft.
Pierce down. From there up you have two lanes most of the
way. He commented on a response he received from Mr.
Gilhooly from the Transportation Department.
Mr. Keenan commented on Mr. Williams acting as the City’s
treasurer. Until the decision is made, he gave the City
addresses to get information on having a City Manager type
of participation in this from the grand daddy of all of
them. He suggested Mr. Williams get an increase in salary
until this gets settled.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Keenan they would be discussing
his agreement tonight.
Mr. Keenan further commented on the roads being a problem.
He feels we should have an outlet going to Ft. Smith Road
in Deltona going west.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated growth doesn’t
pay. At the end of their road, they didn’t need a drain
until they got a motel with a wall. This drain cost the
Edgewater people $2,248.00. Growth doesn’t pay for itself
unless they send the bill to the person that built the wall
and the motel.
Ms. Carlson stated Councilwoman Rogers had a good point on
the roads but they also have to consider the water, which
Councilwoman Lichter is doing. She also commented on
having to consider hurricanes with growth. More damage,
more insurance, more equipment to get this stuff up and
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
running. It took a long time to get us up and running two
years ago after three or four hurricanes. The more people
the longer it takes to get anybody up and running.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
st
A.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-15, Tom Corbett,
agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an
amendment to the Comprehensive plan Future Land
Use Map to include .45+ acres of land located
west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue
as Commercial
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-15 into the
record.
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Kimberly Buck, Allen Engineering Group, representing the
applicant, was present to answer any questions.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-15, Tom
Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an
amendment to the Comprehensive plan Future Land Use Map to
include .45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south of
1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial, second by
Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
B.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-16, Tom Corbett,
agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
.45+ acres of land located west of US1 and south
of 1900 S. Ridgewood Avenue as B-3 (Highway
Commercial)
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-16 into the
record.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. No. 2006-O-16,
Tom Corbett, agent for Federal Trust Bank, requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include .45+ acres
of land located west of US1 and south of 1900 S. Ridgewood
Avenue as B-3 (Highway Commercial), second by Councilwoman
Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
C.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-17, James C. and
Rosemary Carder requesting an amendment to the
Official Zoning Map to include .24+ acres of land
located along the southwest corner of Falcon
Avenue and Mariners Gate Court as R-4 (Multi-
Family Residential)
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-17 into the
record.
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Carder to approach the podium.
Councilwoman Rogers was confused because it says they will
be putting in a single-family residence but yet it says
that it will be changed to multi-family residential. She
asked what this is. Development Services Director Darren
Lear explained it is going to the R-4 zoning, which permits
single-family homes in this district. They will be
required to have variances after they get rezoned to
actually be able to fit a single-family home on this lot.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if there would be retention
created on this piece of property. Mr. Lear informed her
that wasn’t necessary. He spoke of this piece of property
having a mixed land use and zoning on it.
Councilwoman Rogers questioned if they could go to a
different zoning classification other than multi-family
since this is just a single-family residence. Mr. Lear
commented on this being adjacent to the Pelican Cove West
subdivision.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of attending the Planning &
Zoning Board meeting when this was discussed. She asked
about the situation with the Pelican Cove Clubhouse. She
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mentioned a concern of worry that they will be non-
conforming.
Carl Carder
, 1305 Royal Palm Drive, stated there are five
additional parking places on that property for the
clubhouse. They have seventeen as it is.
Mayor Thomas asked if they are giving them five more or
taking away five. Mr. Carder stated they are going to try
and work something out with the City once they get this
rezoned to be able to do something.
Councilwoman Rhodes wasn’t sure she understood. Mr. Carder
stated they developed the clubhouse and put additional
spaces there.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if on the property they want to
change, are five of the parking spaces for their clubhouse.
Mr. Carder stated it is for their clubhouse but it is
unofficial for the clubhouse. They weren’t made to do it.
It was worked out way back when.
There was a brief discussion regarding the clubhouse being
owned by the homeowners association.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated so their parking spaces are on
land that the applicant owns. Mr. Carder informed her that
was correct. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned Mr. Carder
allowing them to use the parking spaces. Mr. Carder stated
up to this point they didn’t need the land. Now they need
the land.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if those spaces are used a lot.
Mr. Carder stated they do have what was needed at the time.
Councilwoman Rhodes would like to know how many cars are
parked in those five spaces on a daily basis.
Mr. Carder stated the one thing that was stated in the
minutes back in 1991 was that the clubhouse was only
supposed to be used by the community. If you open it up to
outside activities outside the neighborhood, fifteen or
sixteen spaces would not be enough for what they want to
do.
Councilwoman Lichter explained a scenario about stone
walls. If it was back further for ex-number of years, the
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property in front of the stone wall, even if the two
markers were in front, it became hers. She then asked if
that applies to parking spots that are used. City Attorney
Rosenthal stated it could but didn’t know if it applied in
this case. He further commented on adverse possession. In
this case, we haven’t heard a suggestion from anyone
whether the association thinks they have some rights to
this property. If they hear that, they would have to
evaluate that and take it into consideration. Assuming the
homeowner’s association doesn’t have any legal right,
whoever owns the property would be entitled to do what they
wanted to do with the property. He assumed there isn’t any
City imposed requirement that says these spaces had to be
used for parking spaces associated with this which is why
staff is making a recommendation for approval.
Mayor Thomas asked if the spaces are paved. Mr. Carder
informed him they are concrete.
Robert Fuller, 408 Sea Hawk Court, President of the Pelican
Cove West Recreation Club, objected to the amount of land
that he wants to rezone because it takes in their parking
lot. On March 4, 1994, the plans that were submitted to
the city included that parking lot. When it was deeded
over to them, they did not deed all of it. Then in order
for them to get things so they could turn it over to them,
they had to provide them with additional parking because
the seventeen parking spaces was not enough or required at
that time. According to July 30, 1991 in Planning and
Zoning the engineer had signed off on the subject site plan
however an additional ten feet of property was incorporated
in order to accommodate the additional parking required by
LDRA. A unity of title should be filed to assure the
property remains conforming so the City required that
additional parking in order for it to conform to the zoning
at that time. He has spoken to the Zoning Board and they
said if they lose that parking lot they will be in
violation. He questioned what they do then.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if that was true. Mr. Lear
informed him that is the first time he is hearing this.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested they continue this to June
th
19 and look further into it, which she feels would be
ample time.
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Interim City Manager Williams stated the research he has
done for this problem there is an indication that an
agreement needs to be struck between the owners of Pelican
Cove West and the applicant and staff suggested a condition
of something be put into the motion stipulating that fact
and allow the owners and the applicant to resolve this
issue mutually. Mayor Thomas thought everybody was
thinking along the same lines.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned if what Mr. Fuller was
saying is true. Does the City require them to have those
five parking spaces? Mr. Fuller stated it is in the
various minutes from years ago. Mr. Lear stated it depends
on what the square footage of the clubhouse is.
Councilwoman Lichter felt this was mucky and didn’t want to
vote on it tonight. She felt they needed two parts to
this. First the lawyer’s opinion and second if Interim
City Manager Williams feels an agreement is enough between
them then she will buy it then but she didn’t like it at
the moment.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she believed what Mr. Fuller
said because he has the minutes and the drawings in front
of him.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed but wanted to know why the City
didn’t know this and why he can get a staff recommendation
when staff has no knowledge of this. Interim City Manager
Williams stated they would have to go back and research
those minutes and the advice that took place from Council.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned Mr. Fuller attending the
Planning & Zoning Board meetings. Mr. Fuller confirmed he
had but he got the minutes and the information from the
Planning & Zoning.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels they need to settle something but
if the City is requiring something of them they should know
it.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated if there was a requirement
for the unity of title in the minutes, that would have
suggested that some additional land be conveyed by a deed
so they would be treated as a single parcel. That is
hearing the reading off the top of the head but it sounds
like maybe it should have been.
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Council Regular Meeting
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Councilwoman Lichter commented on there being problems with
that neighborhood with the transfer of rights and the
clubhouse. She wants the citizens to be protected in this
case.
Mayor Thomas asked how much the clubhouse is used and what
other uses are there. Mr. Fuller commented on a church
that holds service there on Sundays. They use it in the
summer time a little bit less but during the winter they
have two meetings per month and Florida Health Care uses it
for a meeting. At times they could use more parking.
Mayor Thomas also mentioned voting there.
Mayor Thomas questioned the parking lot being full when
they have their monthly meetings. Mr. Fuller informed him
yes and they park along the street.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned renting it out also for
baby showers and dancing. Councilwoman Rogers mentioned
also using it for church services.
Carol Ann Stoughton, 2740 Evergreen Drive, felt it was a
sin because she has canvassed the area in Mariners Gate.
Those people paid $180,000 and $190,000 and were never told
this would be in their front yard, back yard or side yard.
They are so disgusted and dismayed because it is lowering
their property values along with traffic. She feels the
parcel is too small to accommodate all those homes in there
along with parking. It seems that the developer gave
Pelican Cove West a facility to maybe be taken away later
because they so deemed they could use that and fill it up
and make more money for the developer. She didn’t feel
this was fair. She felt the people should also be included
in an agreement, not just in Pelican Cove West but also the
people that live in Mariners Gate. She didn’t feel any of
them wanted it. It is lowering their property values.
They have pools right across from it. She felt it was a sad
state of affairs if it goes in.
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated before this came to
his attention the first time, he went out there and talked
to the person who was the nearest person in the Mariners
Gate development. At that time, that individual didn’t
remember having received any notification that this was
coming up for a change of any sort. He discussed it with
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
them then but they didn’t have a clue of what this was.
His biggest concern in regard to this piece of property is
that at the Planning and Zoning meeting, they heard Mr.
Carder say that they really need to get an understanding
with the people in the homeowners association in regard to
this and they could work on that. That was six or eight
weeks ago. They apparently haven’t made any good work
toward getting an understanding of this. He feels they
need to put a time limit on it to get an understanding. If
they can’t get an understanding with the homeowners
association, he felt the Council needed to deny it.
Mr. Carder felt they needed a three way meeting with the
City involved to come up with some creative process to be
able to share this land. So far they haven’t been able to
do that.
Mayor Thomas asked City Attorney Rosenthal if that was
possible. City Attorney Rosenthal informed him he would
like to know what is going on before the City attends that
meeting.
Mr. Carder stated they have sat down and discussed with Mr.
Lear several different aspects of what they can do.
Nothing fits into anything that is on the books. They
talked about easements, sharing a driveway, sharing the
parking, put their garage on that side and share the
driveway. It may open a can of worms in the future but if
you had some sort of agreement anything can work but
nothing fits into anything the City has and that is their
problem there. They don’t need it all but they do have to
meet the setbacks. If they were to build on this they
still have a variance to be able to fit a home on this
property. They need some help from the City to resolve
this problem. They have no problem sharing the parking but
they have problems with once they strike a line, they were
going to take 89 feet and give them the rest for their
parking. Then it came back that once they struck the line,
they couldn’t have concrete right on the line so they had
to cut five more feet off the parking lot which would then
make it not work. Because of the rules they are trying to
work with, they can’t come up with any kind of compromise.
Councilwoman Lichter felt they just needed to look at the
legal. It may be more clear-cut than they think.
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Council Regular Meeting
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Mr. Carder stated they have no problem sharing the area but
they need some cooperation also.
Mr. Lear felt there was some confusion on where this parcel
is. He pointed out the parcel on an aerial photo and
described it as being at the corner where Falcon Avenue and
Mariners Gate intersect. He pointed out the parcel he
thought Ms. Stoughton was talking about, which was Tuscany
Villas.
Mr. Lear suggested they have some sort of cross access
easement or joint use driveway. They have always said that
and they said maybe at some point, you aren’t issued a C.O.
until this is worked out between the applicant and the
homeowners association.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Councilwoman Rogers if she
already did it. Councilwoman Rogers stated she did do a
motion to continue it.
Councilwoman Rhodes seconded the motion.
Mayor Thomas stated the motion was to postpone it.
Councilwoman Rogers stated to a date certain being June
th
19.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated that is continuing the first
reading and public hearing. At that time, they could
reopen the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she would second it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she had seconded it.
City Clerk Wadsworth asked Councilwoman Rogers if her
earlier suggestion was a motion to continue to a date
th
certain, either thirty days or June 19. Councilwoman
Rogers informed her yes.
Motion was previously seconded by Councilwoman Rhodes.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 8:00 and reconvened at 8:12 p.m.
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Mayor Thomas presented an update on the fires. They are
evacuating Magnolia Village. We have lost no structures at
this point.
nd
D.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-01, Scott Tobin,
applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, (River Oaks)
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 30.01+ acres of land located east
of US1 and north of Jones Fish Camp Road and
approval of the associated RPUD Agreement
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-01 into the
record. He pointed out to Council they had a copy of the
residential planned unit development between the City and
AH Edgewater LLC. There were a couple of minor changes in
that from what was in the agenda packet. This was revised
in response to the action at the first reading. Staff has
reviewed the changes, which are highlighted in red and
agrees it is consistent with the discussions between the
city and the developer. They recommended, assuming there
is a motion to approve the ordinance, it includes the
amendment, the PUD agreement, as before the Council as
amended. He reminded everyone this is currently the
subject of a cert petition brought by the applicant, which
is pending in the court. Should this matter be approved by
the Council on terms acceptable to the City and the
applicant, that would effectively bring a conclusion to the
litigation. The record of all the prior hearings are part
of the record of this proceeding.
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
asked Council to not vote yes on the second reading of this
ordinance. It does not fit the Comprehensive Plan use in
this area. There are just homes there and are no high
rises in this area at this time. It doesn’t fit. She
th
commented on a lawsuit in the 4 District Court of Appeals,
Stuart Florida, Martin County. This is Pinecrest Lakes Inc
appellants verses Karen Shydel, appellee, as case #4D99-
2641. She commented on the developer having to remove his
townhouses because it did not fit the plan. She asked
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Council to think long and hard about this and table it or
vote no.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated from a legal standpoint that
is a correct statement. A structure, which is built, which
is inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan is not a proper
approval and there is a case where the courts ordered the
demolition of the structure. That isn’t the facts
presented in this case. Staff has looked at this and told
Council this project is consistent with the Comprehensive
Plan from a land use standpoint. That is a correct case
but is not applicable to this situation.
Councilwoman Rogers stated if staff is saying this is
consistent but questioned if City Attorney Rosenthal was
also going to say it is consistent. City Attorney
Rosenthal stated the future land use designation is high
density residential with conservation overlay and this fits
within the max density of the Comprehensive Plan. It fits
within the height of the existing code. Councilwoman
Rogers stated only because the term high rise is in there
and that doesn’t specify.
Ms. Carlson stated the citizens of Edgewater are going to
be outraged if and when this high rise goes in. She
commented on the density and height petition she is
running. She has 1,353 petitions to get this on a ballot
for a Charter amendment. If this goes forward, ECARD could
do a referendum petition and petition the citizens of
Edgewater for an appeal. It would take thirty days, but
she is willing to go for it. This high rise does not fit.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated obviously any future
amendments wouldn’t affect a previously approved project of
the Council. Ms. Carlson stated that is not according to
the City Charter.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she has
been down to the Jones Fish Camp Road area. No one wants
it in their back yard. Either does Terra Mar or Hacienda
del Rio. Even though they are in the County, they don’t
have the opportunity to voice their opinion. It is sad
that they could not include these people in their petition.
She has been out soliciting petitions of over 700 people
she collected herself and no one wants it. If it came to a
vote today, it would go down the tubes. It just so happens
high density doesn’t mean seventeen stories high. The
Page 16 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
people don’t want it, the developers do. She asked if
these people would lose their jobs because the developer
has not told the perspective buyers that there is a 1,200
employee situation that could go down the tubes. She saw
the town homes in Marion County tour down. She feels
Council should consider the fact that the people in the
area do not want this road of Alice and Nellie Streets
vacated. It evidently is a way in for the developer to go
ahead and try to get what he shouldn’t be getting in the
first place. She asked the Council to put themselves in
the position of living in the Jones Fish Camp Road area.
It’s not just eye for eye. Everybody should be considered
in this matter. All for one and that is the way it should
be.
Mike Thompson
, 1089 Volco Road, stated he was asked to
write a disclaimer. He is the political chair of the
Volusia/Flagler Sierra Club. He is the voting issues person
for the State of Florida Sierra Club and he is the voting
issues person for the ACLU for Volusia/Flagler County.
Every time he comes to meetings, he hears the same song.
If they don’t do what the land developers want, they are
going to sue you. You can sue anybody for any reason. It
is time for the City to decide whether the City runs the
City or whether the lawyers for the land developers run the
City. They need to tell them it is our City and we will
run it the way we want to run it and if you see fit to sue
us, pack a lunch.
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated it is our City.
Some people have a postal address in the City that to his
knowledge currently we haven’t had any voluntary
annexations on Volco Road, which means that the Sierra Club
member is a resident of the County.
Mr. Card stated we have thirty acres of prime, first class,
beautiful land down there. The simple part of it is it is
either going to be green or have ticky tacky houses all
over it. They heard people say the other night they wanted
green and he thinks most of the people didn’t understand
what they were talking about. This developer is willing to
put a conservation easement on this and put it in the hands
of three governmental units. The conservation easement is
going to be saved for the wildlife of that area in
perpetuity. It is private property now so anybody that
goes fishing is trespassing. That is the right of the
property owner. It’s not going to be public. Nobody is
Page 17 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
asking this individual to be public. What they are trying
to save it for is the critters down there. He then spoke
of having less than 40% occupancy in this type of a high-
rise condominium. There will be less cars on the road then
if they put all the ticky tacky houses in there. It is
going to be almost $1 million per year in tax revenue. The
Council can throw it away if they want to but he has seen
them throw some money away in the last six months.
Dave Ross
, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated he wasn’t for or
against it. It is a shame that the previous Council let
them come to the point where we have to have 200-foot high
rises or 30 acres of ticky tacky houses. There is the
problem. They need to stop that trend. It should never
have come to that point where the gentleman had the ability
to say what he was going to do. They should have told him
two years ago what he could do and neither one of those
should have been his option. Therein is the problem and
they need to fix it.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers stated this is the second reading. She
voted no on the first reading and is still going to vote
no. She received a lot of comments from people telling her
they are happy she voted no and they hope that she will
continue to vote no and that others will continue and
perhaps change their mind back to what it was initially for
various reasons. She has had comments made that there are
citizens that are not concerned about the fees the City
would incur to defend the City to go against the developer
on this project. She spoke of getting ready to get into
the budget. She feels they are going to find money in
various places. The values of homes have gone up. There
are a lot of people that don’t have property homesteaded in
the City. She believes they will come across the revenues
they need to support the defense they will need in a
potential lawsuit continuing if this so needs to occur.
That is if their vote tonight is a positive vote. She
stated the City doesn’t have anything like this, 190 feet
tall buildings. The City of New Smyrna Beach, their height
is lower than that. They have oceanfront property, not
riverfront, not adjacent to rural neighborhoods and not
adjacent to people that have lived here a long time. She
is aware it isn’t in the land use code and shame on the old
land use code and it is about time it gets looked at and
changed.
Page 18 of 33
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Councilwoman Rhodes stated the time to stop this was a long
time ago and she tried to and it didn’t work so we live
with what we have. She has no problem sinking every dime
this City has fighting this condo. If she thought they
could win she would do it. They are going to spend all our
money and we are still going to have the condos. There
comes a time when you cut your losses, you do the best you
can and do what is best for the City. At this point in
time, the only options they have are ticky tacky little
houses or a conservation overlay and a couple of
condominiums that she guesses after they are built you
won’t know they are there unless you are far away and you
see the top of the roof. She feels this is a better option
and most people she speaks to feel this is a better option.
That is what she will vote for because she isn’t going to
take the city’s money and throw it down the drain. Our
lawyer has advised us that is what is going to occur. Her
vote will be to allow the towers.
Councilwoman Lichter felt Councilwoman Rhodes put very well
what she feels. She knows what was said to her by the
lawyer in this firm that she trusts concerning this case
and she keeps that in mind. She also knows the pros and
cons and in the beginning she was a bit shocked by the
height and she saw the land that was being left and the
trees and the green and the animals and the permitting they
went through and got passed. She feels if they don’t vote
yes, she thinks it might be a very nice contribution.
Everything in a community does not have to be the same.
People like different types of housing. She spoke of the
school system not being impacted by the people that will be
coming down for part of a year. She stated they made a
deal with the developers. She would be voting yes.
Mayor Thomas stated since he has been in office he lost a
little bit of sleep. He has lost a bunch of sleep over
this. There is no doubt that this is a well laid out
project. They are going to leave 22 acres of pristine
land. If we don’t let them do this, then the next option
is going to be concrete and there won’t be anything left.
He doesn’t want condos in Edgewater and he is very proud of
the grass root movement right now to get petitions for the
Charter. He has conferred with his legal counsel. He
agreed with Councilwoman Rhodes that they are going to
spend a bunch of money and we will get thrown out the door
and they are going to be able to do what they want any way
Page 19 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
and we aren’t going to get the $300,000 for the fishing
pier out front. He will be voting with a heavy heart for
it.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-01, Scott
Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, (River Oaks)
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 30.01+ acres of land located east of US1 and north
of Jones Fish Camp Road and approval of the associated RPUD
Agreement as amended, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO
.
E. Res. No. 2006-R-03, Scott Tobin, applicant for AH
Edgewater, LLC, requesting the
abandonment/vacation of portions of Alice Street
and Nellie Street, which are within the River
Oaks Condominium project
City Attorney Rosenthal read Res. 2006-R-03 into the
record.
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rogers questioned why this wasn’t done
initially before the RPUD.
Scott Tobin
, 2970 S. Atlantic Ave, Daytona Beach Shores,
stated this was submitted to the Zoning Board at the same
time as the PUD. City staff decided not to put it on the
agenda for council until the zoning agreement was taken
care of. This passed the Planning & Zoning Board at about
the same time the initial application went in.
Councilwoman Rogers stated when you have two streets and a
large tract of land like this, initially perhaps whoever
owned this property, this property was intended to be
developed and these were intended to be roads into that
proposed development years ago. She asked if there has
been any research. Mr. Tobin stated it appears it was to
provide access to be able to break this property up into
smaller lots. Now that they have a development agreement
in place, which will combine all these piece of property
into one project, the streets are not serving any purpose.
The portion of Alice Street that they are asking to be
Page 20 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
abandoned starts at Jones Fish Camp Road at their property
line and terminates at their northern boundary line. The
portion of Nellie Street has never been opened either but
it is just the portion within their lot line. The section
between their southerly property line and Jones Fish Camp
Road would be going through somebody’s yard if this street
was ever opened up.
Councilwoman Rogers stated by asking the city to vacate or
abandon this, they are assuming the City owns this. Mr.
Tobin stated they are easements of record and they are
asking for those easements to be vacated.
Councilwoman Rogers stated easement of record as of what
date. City Attorney Rosenthal stated it is a platted road.
If the City didn’t have an interest in it, they wouldn’t be
before the Council asking to have it vacated. The City
does have an interest in it as a road. The sequencing is
it wouldn’t have made sense if you vacated it first and
then didn’t approve the PUD because then you would have
lots of record that would not have access. With the PUD
approved now which has a Master Plan that shows a different
transportation network for a combination of the lots, the
position is from a public purpose standpoint there is now
no longer any reason for the public to have a road going
through the property because that would be inconsistent
with the PUD Master Plan which Council just approved.
Councilwoman Rogers asked to see the slide where it shows
the roads. When the property was annexed into the City, it
was in Volusia County. She questioned this being three or
four piece of property. Mr. Tobin informed her it is
multiple piece of property. The PUD consists of twelve
individual parcels. She had a problem with the abandonment
because she went through an abandonment with the City. She
knew the City didn’t own something the city said they did.
It turned out after she further investigated that at one
time it appeared the State owned it then the State didn’t
own it then the City who said they owned it didn’t own it
and it turned out that it was owned by a gentleman from the
1900’s. She had to quiet title the property. You cross a
lot of legal lines when you are dealing with abandonment
and roads and there were multiple property owners here.
She asked City Attorney Rosenthal if he has had an
opportunity to go through the multiple parcels and done
some research.
Page 21 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
City Attorney Rosenthal stated when the City passes a
vacation of a road, the City does not render any opinion as
to title matters. That is now a matter between them and
their title company and their title issues. The general
rule is when a right-of-way is abandoned you go down the
middle of the abandoned right-of-way one half each to the
adjoining property owner on each side of the right-of-way.
That is the general statement of law regarding an
abandonment of right-of-way. When they come in and apply
to the City, they will provide a title opinion and the
various title work that will include the abandoned right-
of-way. As a general statement, if they receive a title
policy or attorney’s opinion regarding title, they would
accept that. He further spoke of not doing independent
research. This vacation in that sense isn’t really any
different from any other vacation. If there is a third
party that has an interest in the road, title to the road
as opposed to access through it, their interest would not
be extinguished by this action.
Councilwoman Rhodes confirmed the City is saying we aren’t
going to have use of it. City Attorney Rosenthal informed
her that was correct. Councilwoman Rhodes also confirmed
they aren’t saying they own it, they are just saying the
City would not be using it.
Mr. Tobin stated they did submit deeds to the property
along with title reports to the City as part of this
application.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on a situation where property
owners on each side of the road own up to the middle of the
road and seeing situations where the road is owned by
another party and would have rights. In the State of
Florida you cannot have land locked. She expressed concern
if there has been any research done on that middle road.
Mr. Tobin informed her they have provided a title policy
that provides clear title to all of the lots on both sides
of those roads. Councilwoman Rogers stated she has been
involved where title policies have been issued in error.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated if the land underlying the
paper roads, which are the subject of the vacation
resolution, are owned by a third party, not the City, then
the result of that is if that third party appears and comes
forward and makes their presence known, the vacation
resolution would basically be of no effect and the City
would say it was a matter between them and the third party.
Page 22 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
They sort it out and bring a quiet title action. In the
absence of somebody coming in and challenging or bringing
something to the City’s attention was a general statement
they rely on the attorney’s title opinion or title policy
presented to us and don’t go behind that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated by vacating the right of way, we
aren’t saying we own the road. We never said we owned the
road.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated and you aren’t saying they
own the road afterwards.
Councilwoman Rogers stated there is more to it than meets
the eye when it comes the vacating issue. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated but that’s their issue, not our issue.
Councilwoman Rogers stated but at the same time, the
Council should perform some prudent due diligence and she
is asking these questions, which she feels she has a right
to.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated there is advertising and
notice to adjacent property owners, which is intended to
flush out things if there is somebody out there.
Historically, if you are going to run into a problem like
this you dig back and find out somebody from the late
1800’s or early 1900’s owns it and maybe there is a gap in
title and the third or fourth generation of heirs may not
show up. We would just rely on the title work presented to
the City.
Councilwoman Rhodes would like Councilwoman Rogers to be
right only because they could halt this project. As it
stands now, these are roads to nowhere and she doesn’t
think there is any use swimming against the tide. She
feels they need to be done with this.
Councilwoman Lichter stated there are plenty of old parcels
in the City that are land locked. She mentioned one on
Riverside Drive.
Mayor Thomas stated when they drew the big plan years ago
and this was differently zoned, they drew lines for
proposed roads. It is different now. He believed the
title search would show those roads are paper roads that
show the current land use and how it was going to do. He
believed it was going to be the landowner owns both sides
Page 23 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
of the road. He doesn’t think the City or County owns.
They wanted the people to have access to their home lots.
He doesn’t feel they are giving up anything.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Dave Ross
, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated it would appear
on the surface, the paper roads they are talking about,
that there is no interest on the City or for the City.
There is great interest on the developer’s part. He’s got
two options, either give the citizens of the County access
to his property or he can put up chain link fences around
those roads and reroute his entryway. He stated
Councilwoman Rhodes said these were roads to nowhere. He
proposed to Council that these are roads to a down payment
for a new City Hall. It would seem to him that $1,000 per
unit to be donated to another capital fund for the City,
payable to the City, at an appropriate time would be
appropriate changing things prior to vacating these rights-
of-way.
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, complimented Councilwoman
Rogers. He feels we have to think about where we can get
ourselves between a rock and a hard place. That is all
Councilwoman Rogers is talking about. We would all like to
find a way out of this. He reminded the Council he was one
of the people that wanted a way out of this but he was
voted down all the way around. Now that we are here it is
the thing to do. Our attorney ahs told us we don’t’ have a
problem with it. He thinks they out to go ahead with it.
He wanted to compliment Councilwoman Rogers because she is
doing the right thing by asking questions.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, complimented all of the
Council on a hard decision. She feels Council has learned
a lesson and so have the people in Edgewater. Let’s not
get ourselves there again. Ms. Carlson informed
Councilwoman Lichter she wasn’t referring to her about not
wanting the land. When Mr. Storch presented this to her on
that conservation, she loved it. She will crawl through
any type of vegetation to save the wildlife and she has
done it. It is the height the people in Edgewater are
having a problem with. If it is damaged during hurricanes,
she hoped our insurance doesn’t go up. If it is catches on
fire, she hopes we can afford the fire truck to put it out.
Page 24 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2006-R-03, Scott
Tobin, applicant for AH Edgewater, LLC, requesting the
abandonment/vacation of portions of Alice Street and Nellie
Street, which are within the River Oaks Condominium
project, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rogers voted NO
.
F. Res. No. 2006-R-05, renewing Interlocal Agreement
for Fire/Rescue Service Mutual Aid within Volusia
County
City Attorney Rosenthal read Res. 2006-R-05 into the
record.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Res. 2006-R-05,
renewing Interlocal Agreement for Fire/Rescue Service
Mutual Aid within Volusia County, second by Councilwoman
Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items to be discussed on the Consent Agenda
at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A.Agreement – staff recommending approval of a
Memorandum of Agreement between the City of
Edgewater and Pet Society, Inc. for volunteer
assistance with the operation of the Animal
Shelter, cont. from 4/17/06, Item 9A
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on this costing more than
they originally anticipated. She questioned Interim City
Page 25 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Manager Williams comment about this breaking even in two to
three years. Interim City Manager Williams stated within a
five-year period, the City should be somewhere around a
break-even point. He further commented on adoption
revenues, grant opportunities and donations. Councilwoman
Rogers has heard from people that didn’t vote for the
animal shelter that initially the funding was to build the
facility and that it wasn’t going to cost the citizens any
money but it is costing the citizens money because they are
pulling money from the General Fund. Interim City Manager
Williams explained prior to breaking out this into it’s own
separate department, they would have budgeted the personnel
and some operating costs associated with providing animal
services in our community services department or code
enforcement. They would have had those costs vary within
that department. With the approval of the shelter, there
were issues brought forward about having this designated as
it’s own department. That was their ultimate goal and they
have done just that.
Councilwoman Rogers mentioned saving $44,000 a year by not
using the Southeast Volusia Humane Society.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated always in the budget they
budgeted for animal control. Terrible things were done to
animals and they tried to get the Humane Society to hold
Edgewater animals instead of three days and that cost us
more money to do that so we did that but then they wouldn’t
do it and they wouldn’t let us see their financial records
which was a problem for the City because they wanted to
know where the money was going and coming from and they
didn’t want to. The upshot of that was that Edgewater has
for three years been housing animals in cages all over the
City. She commented on the Pet Society working so hard for
the animals. She would rather spend the money on this than
on the City Attorney. It is going to cost the City some
money and has always cost the City some money. She feels
the ultimate goal is to have it break even and she feels
they have that goal in all of the departments. She is so
in favor of this and is so thankful the Pet Society does
this and she appreciated that somebody else could.
Councilwoman Lichter felt it was best that she didn’t speak
due to being a member of the Pet Society. She will just
keep washing the clothes every morning at the shelter with
the cold water until they get a shovel in the ground.
Page 26 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Mayor Thomas visited the animal shelter. He commented on
how excellent they are doing. It was clean. He suggested
they include in the motion that the voters provided
$500,000 for the facility. He would like to have a check
six months or a year down the road once it gets running to
make sure we are on budget. He is all for it.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned already doing that.
Interim City Manager Williams stated they do and in the
agreement itself it provides for an annual review.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned the Pet society having to
divulge their budget over the year.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Memorandum of
Agreement between the City of Edgewater and Pet Society,
Inc. for volunteer assistance with the operation of the
Animal Shelter, second by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the report they received from
Mr. Williams this evening that wasn’t in the agenda packet
initially does explain it better and clearly identifies
some facts as well as indicating in the notes we are saving
an average of $44,000 per year and it is not conveyed in
the actual report. She feels that is important to know.
B.Agreement – approval of Agreement between the
City of Edgewater and Jon Williams for Interim
City Manager
Councilwoman Rogers spoke of Jon Williams being Interim
City Manager and eventually having to find a Finance
Manager. He has been doing an excellent job as the Finance
Manager. This is a concern.
Councilwoman Rhodes mentioned reviewing this in October.
She suggested in six months either the interim goes away or
Mr. Williams goes away. Interim City Manager Williams
informed her that is specified in the agreement. Mayor
Thomas stated they better keep the Finance Director
position open then. Councilwoman Rhodes feels he can’t
Page 27 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
hang out as the Interim City Manager forever. He needs to
be the City Manager or not.
Interim City Manager Williams asked Council to make this
effective as a result of their actions that took place on
st
May 1. City Attorney Rosenthal stated the term says it
nd
starts on May 2. He felt the effective date of the actual
agreement would be tonight but the term says it is
nd,
retroactive to May 2which would also include the
compensation calculations.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she is pleased so far with her
interaction with Interim City Manager Williams. She felt
it was good to have people that know the area take
responsibility and positions of leadership. Sometimes when
you advertise and go to different extremes and you get
someone from out of state they don’t work out as well as
people who have a feeling for a community. She hopes this
works itself into a permanent situation. She spoke of
staff having a great respect for Mr. Williams.
Mayor Thomas commented on Interim City Manager Williams
leaving himself for raises in the agreement and he was
happy with the $500 car allowance. He commented on Mr.
Williams being at the fires and allowing him to go home and
take a shower. He mentioned him being at the Planning &
Zoning Board meeting on Wednesday night.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approval of Agreement between
the City of Edgewater and Jon Williams for Interim City
Manager with his term starting May 2nd, second by
Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
C.Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I – staff
recommending approval of Project Close-out of the
Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I and Change
Order #1 (Final) reducing the contract amount
from $831,401.50 to $804,305.50 and authorizing
the Mayor or Interim City Manager to execute the
documents
Interim City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on this being the first May
that they don’t have people complaining about paying for
Page 28 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
the water and not receiving it. She is glad it was under
budget.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the Project Close-out
of the Reclaimed Water Trunkline, Phase I and Change Order
#1 (Final) reducing the contract amount from $831,401.50 to
$804,305.50 and authorizing the Mayor or Interim City
Manager to execute the documents, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney Rosenthal had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager
Interim City Manager Williams stated we are in full
transition. It seems they have a lot of issues they are
dealing with at hand. He thanked the Council for taking
time out of their schedules to sit down and meet with him.
After discussing some of the bigger issues the City is
faced with, there seems to be a general consensus amongst
the Council with some slight variations. As they move
forward they will see him bring back a proposal or allow
him to work on a vision statement to help address some of
the growth issues that the City is currently challenged
with. They will try to seek some involvement from the
Planning and Zoning Board and the Economic Development
Board. He then commented on internal staff related issues
they are addressing. They are trying to sit down and
establish a relationship with all of our staff. He set
this as a personal goal for himself so he could address the
overall morale of the City.
Interim City Manager Williams then further commented on
reclaimed water rates. They hope to bring some proposals
back to Council in July to discuss where we are. He has
been looking at the consumptions to try to move towards an
appropriate amount of water to provide for everybody.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
Page 29 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
The following citizen spoke:
Linda Garrett
, 1410 Orange Tree Drive, asked why the
increase proposal that has been mailed to them jumped so
much. She moved in eight years ago and it was five
dollars, then it jumped up to ten. They had some sod
replaced and it is up to $18.00 and she has a single house.
She then asked if this price for residential the same that
commercial places are charged and if they are charged the
same rate for the same usage. She also asked about how
condos are charged. She felt the increased usage should be
divided by more people due to growth in the city. She
didn’t understand why it jumped that much for a single
person. She commented on some of her neighbors cutting
back due to over watering. She feels they will see some of
this.
Interim City Manager Williams explained the reclaimed water
is provided primarily to residential customers. There may
be a few commercial customers in the mix. It is centrally
located within the Florida Shores subdivision. He
summarized what has occurred over the years. He mentioned
discovering there were issues with the system, which
required upgrades, which increased the money charged to the
customer. He spoke of still having supply issues. He
commented on the City installing reclaimed water meters and
establishing the consumption or inclined rate structure to
try and deal with the supply and demand issue and the
pressure problems. The current rate structure they hope
will raise each person’s awareness. They are going to try
and bring back a more acceptable number.
There was a brief discussion regarding the reclaimed water
only being available in Florida Shores and the City using
some of the reclaimed water to water some of the medians.
Mayor Thomas commented on St. John’s River Water Management
District feeling the reclaimed water is a viable water
commodity and they wanted to restrict the use.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on being on the Water
Authority of Volusia as well as the Water Alliance and St.
Johns having control over our consumptive use permit for
the whole City. What every City thought was a throw away
product turned out to be a commodity and St. John’s
Page 30 of 33
Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
tightened up how they want the cities to do it. She spoke
of some of the cities not doing good conservation measures.
Ms. Garrett asked if the meters are ever tested to make
sure they are calculating right. Interim City Manager
Williams stated if they receive complaints of questionable
consumption they send the field guys out to address those
issues.
Rose Sugg
, 1419 Orange Tree Drive, stated they built a
house in Florida Shores about four years ago and it was
only $5 or $10 for the reclaimed water and everybody
thought that was a good deal. She doesn’t think anybody in
the area believes they shouldn’t be raising it. Their
house is built in the middle of four lots so they have a
little more land to water than everybody else. She also
questioned only Florida Shores having reclaimed water.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on putting in a well fifteen
years ago that cost her $15,000. Ms. Sugg asked about
being able to put in a well. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
until St. Johns tells you you can’t use your well.
Councilwoman Lichter stated some do have wells in Florida
Shores.
Ms. Sugg asked if the Council will have input or if St.
Johns going to be the only one. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed her it would be the City.
Ms. Sugg suggested they increase the gallons for the rate.
She spoke of paying more taxes due to having four lots.
Mayor Thomas had a questioned posed to him how the rate was
structure for people that have more than two lots.
Interim City Manager Williams explained well permits are
restricted at this point when there is reclaimed water
available. He commented on the methodology they are
looking into right now for people with larger lots.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the developers being
encouraged to put in more waterless plants and grass.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the taxes have nothing to do
with your water use. Water use is paid for by the user.
Your taxes are paid according to a millage rate and it is
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
the same for everybody. One really has nothing to do with
the other.
Ms. Sugg commented on throwing away her letter informing
her of her consumption due to the City not charging for the
reclaimed water at this time. She spoke of being more
aware of what comes in the mail and trying to be a more
active participant. She gave the Council a lot of credit
for what they do.
Mayor Thomas stated the ultimate goal is to reduce the
water consumption. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she thought
the ultimate goal with reclaimed water is to use as much as
you have and not use more or less. If you use less, you
have to dump it. They are not out to make money on
reclaimed water. It pays for itself.
Ms. Garrett asked about being able to water two days a
week. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they recommend two but
with the reclaimed water they are allowed three. Interim
City Manager Williams stated that would be our
recommendation to help address the supply issue.
Dave Ross
, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, congratulated Interim
City Manager Williams.
Mr. Ross asked what is the nature of our future growth?
This question remains unanswered. Most of the land that
will comprise our future growth is currently outside the
City limits and is excluded from our Comprehensive Plan per
State Statutes. The public in general has little to no
knowledge regarding the direction growth will take in these
newly annexed areas. He believes this causes a lot of
consternation within the citizenry. There are at least
five distinct areas that need to be studied, conclusions
reached regarding the proper use of the land as it relates
to the future growth of our City. Some of these lands are
within the existing City limits; most do not. If we are to
manage our growth in a smart way, it seems appropriate the
Council should hold a series of public hearings and/or
workshops to study and discuss the issues and options and
finalize by vote. He thinks if it is possible they should
attach a policy statement to our Comprehensive Plan. He
asked if there is a question or issue that has more
immediate importance in the short and long terms than what
we are going to do with growth. He feels they need a
public statement by Council what they are going to do.
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated what Mr. Ross is
really talking about is a vision for this City for the next
twenty years and forty years. They have to come together
on this thing. He supported Mr. Ross’ proposal.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda items to be discussed at
this time.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:35
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
May 15, 2006