03-20-2006 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 20, 2006
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Manager Kenneth Hooper Present
City Attorney Paul Rosenthal Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Excused
Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer Present
Paralegal Robin Matusick Excused
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of January 23, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the January 23, 2006
minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B. Regular Meeting of February 27, 2006
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the February 27, 2006
minutes, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
Page 1 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
There were no Presentations at this time.
4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilman Vincenzi wanted to discuss the Land Development
Code changes. He had expressed concern to City Manager
Hooper earlier in the week or last week about the Land
Development Code changes going through the process and
taking quite a while. He feels developers would be rushing
to get in the door to get their changes through before any
Code changes could take place. He was assured by City
Manager Hooper that wouldn’t be a problem. He was told if
they saw something coming through that fell under the
category of we would like to postpone until changes were
adopted that all they had to do was request a continuance
of it. He wasn’t sure about the validity of that and
didn’t want to do that until he was sure. He asked City
Attorney Rosenthal’s opinion on that.
City Attorney Rosenthal explained every case has to be
looked at individually. With respect to the Land
Development Code changes, if someone has approvals in place
those approvals as a general statement aren’t going to be
affected by a Land Development Code change. If you don’t
have any application pending, they would be subject to the
Land Development Code Regulations in effect at the time the
application is submitted. He suggested the Council address
in the Land Development Code amendment how to treat or not
treat an application that has already been submitted. He
further presented suggestions of how Council could handle
applications that have already been submitted and new
applications and how they relate to the Land Development
Code or the Land Development Code changes.
Councilman Vincenzi feels to say continue something until
any changes they desire in the Land Development Code are
passed or not passed would not be the truth. City Attorney
Rosenthal informed him they could continue it within some
parameters. They could slow down the process or continue
the process. He spoke of scheduling projects in terms of
when they will be coming before Council. They could
continue it. The question is if during that continuance
the Council adopts new land development regulations, are
those regulations applicable to the project that has been
Page 2 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
continued. That will depend on where it is in the process.
Just continuing in and of itself doesn’t protect the
Council. He informed Council they could consider a
moratorium on the receipt of additional applications.
Councilman Vincenzi feels this is something they should
consider. He felt considering a moratorium at this time
would not be proper because of it not being advertised and
this being the first time it has been talked about. He
feels that is something someone should consider for the
th
future, possibly the next meeting or the April 17 meeting.
He requested a list of all the applications and where they
are at in the process and he would like to find out exactly
who falls into these categories of what can and can’t be
continued legally.
City Manager Hooper commented on the Tentative List of
Agenda Items that is given to Council. Those are people
that have made application. Councilman Vincenzi asked if
they fall under this category of not legally being
permitted to continue or it depends where in the process
they are. City Attorney Rosenthal informed him they could
vote to continue anything they want. Councilman Vincenzi
stated he wants to do it legally if he does it and he wants
to do it without any legal problems. City Attorney
Rosenthal informed him the continuation is legal. The
question is do they then become subject to new land
development code regulations when they take final action,
not whether or not you can continue it. Councilman
Vincenzi asked how that could be determined. City Manager
Hooper informed him each case is individually looked at.
He commented on if there has been some type of expenditure
on their part they are going to claim they have some
vesting. He knows of none right now that are in that
category. He believed Reflections was trying to get in in
front of the Land Development Code. He didn’t think this
would happen due to the schedule. He mentioned some being
annexed into the City years ago. He spoke of this not
being black and white. It depends whether they have done
something, whether they have protected their position or
whether they have staked out some methodology to protect
their position. City Attorney Rosenthal elaborated on
somebody submitting an application after the land
development regulations have been adopted. He urged the
Council to be careful about a blanket rule.
Page 3 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
City Manager Hooper mentioned the Council having a schedule
that shows a path for the Land Development Code and a path
for the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. The Land Development
Code would be in a finished draft on Friday so they would
be handed out to Council and the Planning & Zoning Board.
The Planning & Zoning Board’s first hearing is on April
th
12. The schedule is it could come before Council as early
stth
as May 1
and May 15 for the second hearing. He commented
on this being fast for major changes to the Code. It isn’t
just changing a page or paragraph. You have to make sure
it works in other components of the Code.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this issue should be added as
well, the procedure. City Manager Hooper informed her it
would be. He commented on including an appeal process in
the Code.
Councilman Vincenzi stated what he thought he heard were
two options being either to declare a temporary moratorium
on accepting applications or do a case-by-case continuance
if somebody on Council felt it is a situation they would
like to see fall under the new codes.
City Attorney Rosenthal then explained what a pending
ordinance doctrine is. He commented on a moratorium taking
two readings and a meeting, which wouldn’t be too far
behind the schedule that City Manager Hooper had before
Council. Councilman Vincenzi stated well it’s an option.
Councilman Vincenzi asked for a consensus from Council to
have the City Attorney or a legal representative present at
all future meetings.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t feel they needed to do that and
that it wasted money.
Councilwoman Lichter felt there were certain issues that
are very complicated and involved with an attorney being
here. There are other meetings when they do not have that
so she felt it should be a meeting-by-meeting decision.
She wouldn’t be in favor of having the lawyer or someone
from his firm there all the time. They all have the
ability to contact.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he went through that process
this week. He was told it takes three out of five to say
Page 4 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
yes you want them at a meeting and sometimes there isn’t
enough time to contact everybody to get a consensus.
Mayor Thomas stated his opinion is yes.
Councilwoman Rogers stated with what is going on in the
City right now, which they aren’t allowed to talk about, if
they would have had an attorney present, it would have
saved them a lot of time and money. For that reason, she
felt they should have an attorney sitting at the meetings.
Mayor Thomas stated the general consensus is three against
two for the City Attorney to be here.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned where the money was coming
from.
Councilman Vincenzi stated it is going to cost a lot of
money. It is going to cost more money but he felt the
ramifications of not having legal advice when they are
making sensitive decisions could cost the City a lot more.
Councilman Vincenzi then asked City Attorney Rosenthal if
he or another qualified attorney would be at the meetings.
City Attorney Rosenthal informed him yes.
Councilwoman Rhodes had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she is still looking for anti-
littering signs along U.S. #1. She felt they might not
have to have the extra help besides Mr. Corder’s team.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on calls she has been
receiving regarding the reclaimed water rates. She felt
the letter that got sent out with the water bills was not
clear to people. She feels they need to readdress that
issue due to people being confused. She spoke of when they
first started supplying reclaimed water. She spoke of
reclaimed water being a golden commodity to help conserve
other water use. She spoke of charging more because they
had to improve the system because some people are abusing
it and to get brownie points with St. John’s to get the
Consumptive Use Permit the City is after.
Councilwoman Lichter reported that the Manager’s Group is
being activated again. Our City Manager happens to play an
Page 5 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
important part in that. They are being given two more
assignments to discuss a common C.U.P. and middle funding.
st
Councilwoman Lichter reported that on April 1 there was
going to be a Halifax/Indian River Cleanup. The hours are
between 8:00 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. At 11:30 a.m. there would
be free lunch at the Buena Vista Park in New Smyrna Beach.
She reported that her and Jack Hayman have been asked to be
judges.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she thought consensus usually
means total consensus. She didn’t know how they could plan
to spend unless they know where the money is coming from.
Mayor Thomas informed Council he has met his goal to meet
with every City employee. He commented on riding with the
Police Officers on Thursday and Friday of Bike Week and
this being exciting and busy. He mentioned there being
4,000 bikes in the Dollar General parking lot and 40,000
people visiting the No Name Saloon just on Friday. He
commented on six police officers coming over from Orange
City. He wrote the Mayor of Orange City a letter thanking
him. He spoke of having to direct traffic in front of the
No Name Saloon.
Mayor Thomas asked Police Chief Ignasiak to present some
statistics about Bike Week. Police Chief Ignasiak reported
that there were several thousand passing through Edgewater
streets every day. Typically in Edgewater we have two or
three accidents per day. Throughout the entire Bike Week
we had a total of fourteen accidents, only one involving a
motorcycle. There were no serious fatalities. Very few
arrests were made other than drivers’ license violations as
a result of Bike Week activities. They made a total of six
arrests for misdemeanors. Five of the six were Edgewater
residents. Traffic wrote 726 citations in that ten-day
period. Patrol wrote 146 citations, totaling 872
citations. He felt the entire event went very well. There
were 17 traffic related arrests, 2 misdemeanor drug
arrests, 2 disorderly intoxication arrests. They wrote 126
violations for motorcycles coming through. He commented on
two complaints he received. Orange City provided the City
with six police officers and will be coming back at various
times in an attempt to establish better law enforcement
presence during Bike Week.
Page 6 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Mayor Thomas stated in talking to the City employees, he
expressed concern with affordable health insurance at
retirement age. He is going to talk to Ms. Sigler about
this. He spoke of some people having enough time to retire
but not being able to afford the health insurance. He
feels this needs to be addressed and that they should try
to find a solution.
Mayor Thomas then mentioned the old employees and their
family’s insurance being free and the new employees have to
pay for that. City Manager Hooper stated previously the
City paid 50% of dependent coverage. Last year they ceased
that due to it being too expensive.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she has received some phone
calls regarding the proposed land use changes with regard
to the fifty-foot wide lots. She requested City staff
provide her with a total amount of lots that we have
existing right now that are fifty foot wide broke down by
subdivisions and how many would be vested or coming into
the City that are not yet built but they have already given
permission to allow the developers to build the fifty-five
foot wide lots.
Councilwoman Rogers stated her utility bill is debited out
of her account automatically. She stated she would like to
know the number of residents in the City. Whenever she
receives an invoice and she knows the debit is going to be
occurring, she felt she should not receive an envelope.
She felt they should stop sending out envelopes when they
have bills that are paid through a debit.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they would be getting involved
in the budget workshops very soon. They will definitely
look for a way to pay for the attorney. She stated they do
have funds they don’t have realized yet. They aren’t
liquid. These are the funds she has brought up in the
past, the dredging material from the intracoastal waterway.
It is pretty substantial. She has heard the amount anywhere
from $4,500,000 to $6 million. She believes they have
funds to afford an attorney. She felt it was imperative to
have the legal advice at their meetings. They have the
money. They just have to make it liquid and allocate it.
City Manager Hooper stated FIND has pledged all of that
fill to Volusia County for beach re-nourishment. What
looked like a source of dollars is taken back by FIND.
Page 7 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Councilwoman Rogers asked when this came about and if they
had a legal right to do that. City Manager Hooper stated
it is their dirt. They agreed they would let the City have
it and then the County said to them a public use would be
to put that on the beach. There was no agreement prior to
that. It was just something they had talked about and were
heading towards an agreement. At this point they are
saying it is a higher public purpose to put it back on the
beach.
Councilwoman Rogers asked when this decision came about.
City Manager Hooper informed her last week. Councilwoman
Rogers stated this is the first time she is hearing about
it and that it sounds like some people were already aware
of it.
5. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing Edgewater
Citizens Alliance for Responsible Development, stated she
was at the meeting to petition the City Council to place
the following amendment to the City Charter on the ballot
for the next general election. Ballot title - Height
amendment, amending Edgewater City Charter, Article I
Powers, Prohibiting building heights exceeding 35 feet.
Ballot summary – Height amendment prohibits construction of
new buildings that exceed 35 feet in height, provides
building height, definitions and exclusions. Buildings
presently exceeding 35 feet in height may be repaired to
existing heights. Prohibits alterations that would cause a
building height to exceed 35 feet. Is not intended to
restrict a property owner’s vested rights under
constitutional statutory common law, repeals conflicting
ordinances, provides effective date. She currently had
over 500 signatures.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the procedure was if they
wanted to consider that and try to get it on the ballot.
City Manager Hooper explained the authority rests with the
Council to propose an amendment to the Charter. The
petition route they are doing, he thought was 10% of the
registered voters. They gather the signatures, they turn
them in and they are verified by the Supervisor of
Elections. That goes directly on the Charter ballot. They
have two choices, their own initiative if they choose to or
Page 8 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
the initiative from the citizens that are trying to put the
petition together. The City’s would be an ordinance the
Council could adopt. They could have it as a Special
Election or put it on one of the General Elections.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned if that was an option that
was desired, what would be the deadlines associated with
something like that if they wanted to put it on the ballot
in November. City Manager Hooper stated they would have to
have an ordinance adopted by September. He agreed to
research this and come back with a date the Supervisor of
Elections would require that information be given to them.
Ms. Carlson stated instead of an ordinance, they are asking
for a Charter amendment. Councilman Vincenzi stated they
are finding out information. They aren’t doing anything
right now.
City Attorney Rosenthal explained a Charter amendment first
passes as an ordinance of the Council and then goes to the
voters.
Councilwoman Rogers asked to have the information by the
next Council meeting.
Mike Thompson
, 1089 Volco Road, Volusia/Flagler Sierra
Club, felt having counsel on staff when they have their
meetings is probably going to be some of the smartest money
the Council has ever spent.
Ms. Thompson stated he helped Ms. Carlson collect the
signatures. The Council had a major regime change in the
election. He stood on the street corner and collected the
signatures and people are falling over themselves to sign
because they don’t want this runaway growth.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated the City had a
full-time attorney that was terminated. He asked for an
approximate figure on what we are spending now per year
without having a full-time attorney. City Manager Hooper
estimated between $50,000 and $60,000. Some of that is
recouped through development. Mayor Thomas explained he is
our full-time attorney but he charges by the hour when he
participates.
Mr. Capria didn’t understand completely the charge being
passed on to the developer. City Manager Hooper commented
Page 9 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
on when the City Attorney reviews a developer’s request to
plat property and the developer paying his hourly rate.
Mr. Capria asked if it was the same procedure when we have
a full-time attorney here. City Manager Hooper informed
him no.
Mr. Capria commented on the General Fund being depleted and
the City getting $5.5 million back. The Fund technically
was depleted for a short period of time and then was filled
again.
Ray Anderson
, 1906 S. Riverside Drive, presented his semi-
annual report from Bike Week. He commented on it being
completely under control except one night it got a little
loud. He called it in for a meter reading and obviously it
was within limits. He commented on the readings being well
below any readings they have had in the past.
There was a brief discussion regarding the use of the P.A.
system being rescinded beyond curfew hours.
Mr. Anderson stated all in all it was pretty good. He then
asked Councilwoman Lichter for an update on the animal
shelter and where they stand with it being a voluntary
financing.
City Manager Hooper mentioned having an agreement before
Council between the Pet Society and the City at the April
th
17meeting. He spoke of also having the construction
th
contract on April 17.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the funds being raised by
the Pet Society going for everything within the building.
Volunteers are needed to help with fund raising activities.
She commented on volunteers paying for all of the expenses
of the animals for the last three years. She mentioned
volunteers covering certain types of jobs that they legally
can. Every penny that Pet Society makes is accounted for
and goes for the operation of the animal shelter except the
director and the two animal control people at the moment.
Doris Hill
, 1830 Turnbull Lakes Road, New Smyrna Beach,
informed Council she had a couple questions regarding
changes to the Comprehensive Plan. She stated Councilman
Vincenzi asked the question how long it would take. If
Council decides on the changes and votes on the changes,
Page 10 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
when does that become legal. She questioned it going to
the Department of Community Affairs for their approval and
how long that takes.
City Manager Hooper informed her she was mixing two issues.
The Comprehensive Plan goes to DCA. The only issue that
will be addressed in the Comp Plan is net density verses
gross density. They get a review period of about 90 days
that takes maybe four to five months from the time it is
transmitted out of the City, to them and back. The Land
Development Code that is under the authority of the City
Council will deal with lot size, flood plain, protection of
wetlands and height. Those will be effective upon adoption
at the second reading.
Ms. Hill commented on what she feels are problems the
realtors are going to have with this. They have to
disclose and when you don’t know if a zoning is going to be
changed, it puts everybody in a very bad position. She
would look into this and know what all the ramifications
are. City Manager Hooper informed her it really affects
new development. He believed Council was looking at
applications coming in for new developments.
Ms. Hill stated she was talking about raw land or any kind
of property that anybody buys expecting that they can use
it as it’s zoned and then they find out they can’t because
it has been rezoned. She was talking about the time frame.
If it goes on and on, there could be ramifications. City
Manager Hooper informed her it is scheduled to come back to
Council before the end of May for second reading. Ms. Hill
stated it might slow up the development too.
Duane McKee
, 1812 Needle Palm Drive, commented on the
resolution that was approved for the increase of reclaimed
water fees pending a trial period. Last month, he would
have been charged $80 for his reclaimed water usage. When
he received that letter within a week he shut off his
water. He had three weeks of usage on that period and they
claim he would have been charged $86.27. Those charges are
for minimal water during a dry period. He has another
property in Ormond where he had a well put in and it costs
him approximately $6 or $7 per month for the electricity to
water that property. He expressed concern that the Council
is going to scare people away and they are going to want to
go to wells. He didn’t know what happens when the City
gets an accumulation of water they can’t get rid of.
Page 11 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Mayor Thomas stated he has been getting a lot of calls,
letter and e-mails. He asked City Manager Hooper to
explain why it is costing so much now compared to when it
was originally available. City Manager Hooper commented on
the issue being to get rid of the effluent from the
Wastewater Treatment Plant. It had to come out of the
river so the City approached the residents of Florida
Shores with 2,000 or 3,000 people signing up initially. He
believed it was a flat fee of $5. Then it became $10 when
the City made some improvements some time ago. Those
improvements have always been short and we have never gone
through a dry period without having major complaints of
lack of pressure and lack of water. The Water Management
District is strongly encouraging that they spread the
resource. Their goal would be to have every house use no
more than 15,000 gallons. They have structured a rate
system that is built around 15,000 gallons of consumption,
which would be around $10 or $15 per month. They have
recently put meters in. Their efforts were three months of
wet season and three months of dry season to try to get an
average of what it was going to be and then bring that back
to Council to let them know if they have the right rate or
the wrong rate. At this point, it is more or less the
testing and calibration. They have some users that have
$80 bills and they have some users that have $3 or $4
bills. This is an education of just how much you use.
Mayor Thomas asked if St. Johns mandated this to us. City
Manager Hooper informed him it is not a mandate. It’s
going to be a mandate in the future with our consumptive
use permit. They have encouraged that 15,000 gallons per
household is an appropriate number to use for irrigation.
He mentioned the City is about to receive its use permit
and it may have a condition that does mandate that.
Mayor Thomas commented on the City having the more you use
the more you pay to try to cut the water consumption down.
City Manager Hooper informed him the more you use the
higher the rate per gallon goes.
City Manager Hooper explained in the new consumptive use
permit that he is expecting in June, there will be a
requirement for inclined water rates for metered reclaimed
rates and then inclined reclaimed rates.
Page 12 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Mayor Thomas stated water is a very important thing and is
going to be more important in the future. They have been
asked for other avenues other than our well system to get
water. City Manager Hooper informed him that is the
purpose of WAV. To look at St. Johns River or brackish
water as two new water supply sources.
Mayor Thomas stated what they are trying to do instead of
everybody having a beautiful lawn, they are trying to make
leaf gardens and palmetto patches so we don’t consume the
water just to water our yards.
Councilwoman Lichter stated what they thought was something
we had to throw away or had extra has become a gem. One
way to postpone that we are going to need, very expensive
plants, wells and five other things to eventually, in ten
to fifteen years, to meet the water supply, is strong
conservation measures. She mentioned Deborah Green working
with the builders and developers so they aren’t putting in
the grass that requires a lot of water. She commented on
zones being regulated so they all don’t need the same
amount of water. She spoke of people that have wells being
mandated by the County of watering only two times a week.
She also mentioned turning off her water during the rainy
season. She doesn’t ever water one zone for more than
thirty minutes and her grass is green. What we were giving
away has become something that St. Johns is almost using a
little bit as leverage of how you charge for your regular
water and how this commodity is being used. She mentioned
numerous projects in the works with developers and St.
John’s gives your brownie points if you are complying.
Ray Anderson
, 1906 S. Riverside Drive, stated he just got
done building a new home and he worked very closely with
the permitting department, water department, inspectors and
he was required by law to produce three water retention
ponds because of the shape of the yard. He mentioned
eliminating 3,000 feet of sod by using crushed stone. He
also used it in his driveway system. There are other ways
of conserving. He mentioned putting down Bahia grass
instead of Floratam. He informed the Council they are more
than welcome to come and look at it as an idea.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the type of plants you plant
make a difference. There are water less plants.
Page 13 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Randy Alridge
, Needle Palm Drive, stated when they signed
on initially for the reclaimed water it was $200 and it was
presented as seven days a week twenty-four hours a day
unlimited water use. He has spoken to many people that
have told him the same water reiterated to them. He
understands times change and he understands conservation
but just doing some simple math, watering twice a week at a
half inch, which is what they recommend, using the City’s
scale, you are going to use somewhere around 25,000
gallons, which will cost about $60 per month. He finds
this out of kilter and feels they need to reconsider the
pricing tier. He understands the City wants people to use
water more reasonably but he thinks they need to do it in a
way that doesn’t penalize people that have hooked up to the
system and are trying to keep a yard nice. He feels the
pricing tier is a little unreasonable.
City Manager Hooper explained when the reclaimed water was
put in, we did not have meters and they assumed how much
was being used just by 3,000 customers using a million and
a half gallons. All indications are they will be coming
back to Council with something that is less than that based
on this trial period and that is the purpose of it.
There was a ten-minute recess at this time. The meeting
recessed at 8:00 p.m. and reconvened at 8:13 p.m.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public Hearing, Joseph Alison requesting
preliminary plat approval for a 30-unit
subdivision known as Alison Estates (formerly
Nocatee)
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Vincenzi remembered this when it came through a
while back. He remembered talking about 75-foot lots but
didn’t remember them talking about duplexes. He questioned
if the intent was to put in 15 duplexes with thirty
dwelling units and will be eventually medium density. City
Manager Hooper informed him it is medium density. It is an
R-4 type zoning. When Council saw it last, it was single
family. Now the proposal is to do duplexes.
Page 14 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Councilman Vincenzi asked why the change in plans. City
Manager Hooper informed him a new owner. The previous
owner decided not to build what he had sought for approval.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what stage of the process this is
in. City Manager Hooper informed him this is in preliminary
plat. From here they go to construction plans. Then they
would be entitled to completion of construction plans and
plat the subdivision and then be able to draw building
permits. This has proper zoning and proper land use. Once
this is done, it enables them to start with the
construction drawings and final engineering.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if the duplexes would be for
sale. She was informed yes.
City Attorney Rosenthal informed Mayor Thomas if they were
going to have public comment, he should open the public
hearing.
Mayor Thomas stated they would limit it to Council
comments. City Attorney Rosenthal informed Council they
could talk during the public hearing. He recommended if
they were going to have members of the public speak as well
as the applicant that that should be part of the public
hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Hooper if this was
going to be on the order as Shangri-La. City Manager
Hooper informed her yes.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t have a problem with this and
felt it fit in with the area well. City Manager Hooper
commented on there being no complaints at the Planning &
Zoning Board level.
Councilwoman Lichter felt this is a win-win situation. She
feels this serves the added purpose of affordable housing.
She feels it is a good plan.
Mayor Thomas didn’t remember this. City Manager Hooper
informed him it was before his time on the Council.
There was a brief discussion regarding this being
compatible with the surrounding area.
Page 15 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Councilwoman Rogers asked what the asking price is for one
of the duplex units since it is coming into the City and
they are talking about it being affordable. City Manager
Hooper didn’t know.
Councilwoman Rogers stated if it is in fact affordable
housing, is the developer receiving any kind of grants or
will there be grants funds available for people wanting to
purchase this. City Manager Hooper stated not as far as he
knows unless they have worked with one of the Federal or
County agencies.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Daniel Johns, Project Engineer, 5889 S Williamson Blvd,
Port Orange, agreed to answer any questions.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the asking price is for a
unit. Mr. Johns informed him the developer told him it
would be in the range for $180,000. Councilman Vincenzi
questioned for one side of a duplex. Mr. Johns informed
him yes.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that’s not all that affordable.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they have been designed yet
and how big they would be. Mr. Johns stated he has several
models he plans on marketing. The smallest is 1200 to 1400
square feet. The lots out there, the minimize size is 75 X
115, which is a little more than 8600 square feet. There
are a few lots in there that are as big as 15,000 square
feet because of the lay of the land. The average size is
probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 square
feet.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if there are grants available for
people. Mr. Johns stated his limit with the work has been
for the design of the subdivision but speaking to the
developer he didn’t believe he had applied for any types of
grants.
The following citizens spoke:
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, she asked if there is a
conservation overlay. City Manager Hooper informed her
there was not. Conservation overlay would be if there is
flood plain or wetlands and there isn’t. Ms. Carlson asked
Page 16 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
about a species survey. City Manager Hooper informed her
there has been one done. They are showing no threatened or
endangered species.
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, asked if any of the
Council have visited the area and if they were familiar
with the area. He feels anything new is going to be an
improvement back there. He suggested Councilwoman Rogers
might want to take a look back there since this is in her
district. He mentioned there not being much back there
except the FEC railroad and a really not highly desirable
area to live in. Anything they put back there is going to
be an improvement.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the preliminary plat
for the 20-unit subdivision known as Alison Estates, second
by Councilwoman Rogers.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
st
B. 1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-06, Anthony and
Melissa Lancellotta requesting annexation of
.9+ acres of property located at 2923 Oak Trail
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-06 into the
record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the access was off of Oak
Trail. City Manager Hooper informed him yes. Councilman
Vincenzi asked if it was there yet. Development Services
Director Darren Lear stated it isn’t showing but there is a
platted right-of-way to the north that accesses the
existing house they have now.
Councilwoman Rhodes, Councilwoman Lichter and Councilwoman
Rogers had no problem with this.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-06,
Anthony and Melissa Lancellotta requesting annexation of
Page 17 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
.9+ acres of property located at 2923 Oak Trail, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
C. Continuance of 1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-01,
Scott Tobin, applicant for Mid Florida
Investments, LLC, (River Oaks) requesting an
amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include
30.01+ acres of land located east of US1 and
north of Jones Fish Camp Road and approval of
the associated RPUD Agreement (cont. from
2/13/06, Item 9A)
City Attorney Rosenthal stated he believed City Manager
Hooper passed out a letter that Mary Solik sent to Judy
Lane today. They have agreed to the continuation to May 1,
2006. He recommended they move to continue the
consideration of Ord. 2006-O-01 to the May 1, 2006 Council
Meeting at 7:00 p.m. or as soon thereafter as practical for
the first reading consideration of Ord. 2006-O-01 and
consideration of the associated RPUD agreement.
Mayor Thomas asked City Attorney Rosenthal to explain what
it was for the people that did not have an agenda, which he
did at this time.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated they have agreed with the
developer’s lawyer that there wouldn’t be any discussion of
this matter at the Council Meeting tonight so their
recommendation is to continue and they have stipulated to
their legal counsel that that is what the City will do
tonight and that they won’t discuss it.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion to continue.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to continue Ord. 2006-O-01 to
May 1, 2006 to be held at 7:00 p.m. for first reading
consideration of the ordinance and consideration of the
associated RPUD agreement be discussed at that time, second
by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
D. 1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-07, establishing
user fees to non-residents for public safety
services for motor vehicle accidents
Page 18 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
City Attorney Rosenthal read Ord. 2006-O-07 into the
record.
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he isn’t necessarily against
this but since they discussed it last, he had some
concerns. He asked if Edgewater would be the first city in
Volusia County to do something like this. City Manager
Hooper stated to his knowledge, we would be the first city
in Volusia County. Councilman Vincenzi asked how many
other cities in the State of Florida do this. City Manager
Hooper stated he knew Winter Park does. Both Chiefs have
done some other research of other cities. He believed the
League of Cities identified eight to ten cities and he
thought there was a number very close that are at this same
stage. Fire Chief Barlow mentioned a few other cities.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned whether they would try to
collect the money from the non-resident or the insurance
company. City Manager Hooper informed him the insurance
company. He further commented on the process. He spoke of
this being a proprietary fund that would be tracked and go
back to the Police and Fire Departments and not get
involved in the rest of the balance of the General Fund.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what would happen if the
insurance company didn’t want to go along with it. He
didn’t know if this was something legal. It certainly
isn’t something typical that is occurring today. Some
cities are doing it. Most are not. Some are thinking
about doing it. City Manager Hooper commented on his
discussion with the City Manager of the City of Winter
Park. The insurance companies are going along with it and
somewhat encouraging it. It enables them to help recover
their cost and gets them involved.
Councilman Vincenzi stated for the sake of discussion, what
would happen if an insurance company did not want to pay?
City Manager Hooper stated they would probably send a
second or third letter but he doubted if the volume would
be big enough to challenge or go for a lawsuit over.
Councilman Vincenzi expressed concern with Edgewater doing
it for non-residents and then we go to New Smyrna and we
have an accident in New Smyrna then we are at fault and
Page 19 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
they would do the same. He feels it would be a big mess
and create a lot of problems for people.
Councilman Vincenzi asked for some statistics based on
previous years to try and get a better idea of how much
would be potentially recovered. He suggested they go back
to 2004 and 2005 and how many accidents were actually at
fault out of town people and how much the cost was. He
again asked for accurate figures for the last year or two.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels at some point this is going to be
a wash. You will either pay for through your insurance
premiums or through your taxes. One way or the other you
are going to pay. She doesn’t have a problem with trying
this and seeing how it works out. If we don’t realize any
benefits from it, then they would pass an ordinance to
rescind it. It should definitely be on a trial basis.
City Manager Hooper stated they talked about having it
sunset after a period of time.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated the effective date is it
automatically sunsets in eighteen months.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she got a call from County
Councilman Jack Hayman who was rather opposed to this. He
informed her if they pass this, he would be at the next
meeting. She will probably be voting yes tonight but if
County Councilman Hayman is really persuasive she might
change her mind. He suggested to her that they go through
the budget process first. He was afraid it might take away
money from the budget that the Fire and Police need. She
thought of it in terms of adding extra. He was a little
worried about first response. She spoke of circumstances
mentioned by County Councilman Hayman that may involve the
County or New Smyrna personnel and how that would be
straightened out. He also mentioned the fact of the
company taking charge and collecting the money and how much
do they actually get. She doesn’t mind giving this a try
but she would be open to change her mind if things happened
before they hear it for the second time.
City Manager Hooper elaborated on closest unit response.
He thought County Councilman Hayman was concerned if
Edgewater went into the County would we charge this. The
answer is we don’t have the authority to. Closest unit
response is separate and different and we have been into
Page 20 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
that agreement for a year or year and a half and working
well.
Mayor Thomas stated he likes creativity and he likes
innovation and he thinks if they don’t do it, other cities
will. He would rather be at the front rather than the
rear. He has spoken to Fire Chief Barlow and Police Chief
Ignasiak and they are both for it. He will be for it. He
would like to see a clause in there that they study it for
two years. He didn’t feel one year would be fair.
Councilwoman Rogers assumed there would be a separate
company taking care of this. She asked what happens when
there are funds there that have not yet been expended or
are they just planning to charge and then do a
reimbursement back to the fund.
City Manager Hooper explained these dollars would come into
an enterprise or separate fund and sit there. He felt as
they go through the budget process, one of the things they
will be asking the Council to direct is how those dollars
are spent. They don’t want it to go into recurring costs.
He spoke of the Fire and Police budgets staying in tact and
this will give additional services, additional equipment or
additional training so it is over and above.
Councilwoman Rogers clarified it was money coming in to
replace what we have had to incur because of these
accidents being caused by outside city residents. City
Manager Hooper stated it is expenditures we did for time or
for the vehicle that was rolling. It is a reimbursement
for that.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she also received a phone call
from County Councilman Hayman. Something he said that
concerns him is there is an agreement between the City and
Volusia County. Councilwoman Lichter informed her that was
Closest Unit Response. Councilwoman Rogers stated he was
calling it interlocal. City Manager Hooper commented on
the Closest Unit Response agreement with the County. He
further explained this has nothing to do with at fault.
That is a response issue and is not connected to this.
Councilwoman Rogers recommended they continue this to the
next Council meeting so they can get more information. She
is curious to find out why he keeps hitting upon this
agreement. He did not mention First Response or anything
Page 21 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
to her and kept talking about two different agreements.
She wants to make sure they are doing this right. She
doesn’t want to put it out there as a test run and then
change their minds. She wants to do it right the first
time and not do a test run.
City Manager Hooper informed her they could continue this
and discuss this later or approve this and go to a second
reading and they can invite Mr. Hayman to be here.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he wouldn’t mind hearing what
County Councilman Hayman has to say. He is usually pretty
persuasive and usually has good reasons for objecting to
something. Continuing it would be fine with him.
City Manager Hooper stated they would notice him of the
second reading and invite him to attend.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Doris Hill
, New Smyrna Beach, stated she is eighty years
old and has never had an accident. If she gets in an
accident that is not her fault, she is supposed to pay for
the police. City Manager Hooper informed him only if she
was at fault. Ms. Hill felt there would be repercussions.
Her big mouth will be going very loudly in the City of New
Smyrna Beach.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to continue the first reading of
Ord. 2006-O-07 until further input, in particular from our
County Council representative, second by Councilwoman
Rogers
.
City Manager Hooper informed the Council they needed to
continue to a date certain.
Councilman Vincenzi suggested somebody else continue it
rd
because he wouldn’t be at the meeting on April 3unless
th
they wanted to wait until April 17. Councilwoman Rhodes
th
felt they had a lot on their plate on April 17.
Councilman Vincenzi stated if someone wanted to continue it
Page 22 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
rd
until April 3 that was fine but he wasn’t going to be
here.
rd
Councilwoman Rogers moved to continue it until April 3,
second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
7. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
A. Economic Development Board
1) Nomination by Councilwoman Rhodes to
fill the remaining term of Daniel
Young due to his resignation
Councilwoman Rhodes nominated Bob Williams.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve the appointment of Bob
Williams to the Economic Development Board, second by
Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
2) Nomination by Councilwoman Lichter to
fill the expired term of Tom Hamall
who did not seek reappointment
Councilwoman Lichter nominated Jerry Anderson. She
commented on the Economic Development Board lacking a
woman’s touch. She hopes to find someone from the health
field that has the female gender.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the appointment of
Jerry Anderson to the Economic Development Board, second by
Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
A.Law Enforcement Trust Funds – staff
recommending approval to use “Trust Funds” in
the amount of $2,780 to send two (2) officers
to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement
(FDLE) D.A.R.E. training school
Page 23 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
B.Chemical Purchase – staff recommending approval
to “piggyback” on the Palm Beach County Sodium
Hypochlorite for the liquid bleach at a cost of
$.664/gallon (for full truckloads of 4,600
gallons) with Allied Universal Corporation and
authorize the Mayor or City Manager to execute
the contract
C.Family Fall Festival with Big O Amusements –
staff recommending authorizing Festival to be
held at Whistle Stop Park on October 20-22,
2006, hiring Big O Amusements to run the event
and authorizing the Mayor or City Manager to
execute the Agreement
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Hooper who he wanted to
explain this. City Manager Hooper informed him it is
mostly if they have questions. Being consent, they are
routine. He agreed to explain if the Council wanted him to
but informed them they are self-explanatory.
Mayor Thomas asked Chief Ignasiak his reason for having two
officers instead of one. Police Chief Ignasiak elaborated
on why they need another DARE officer. He mentioned these
officers being on opposing shifts. They will always have a
trained DARE officer who can supplement Officer Mumpower in
those schools to keep those programs running consistently.
Mayor Thomas asked if we are getting some type of funds
when we are gong outside the City limits. Chief Ignasiak
stated this was a request from New Smyrna Beach because
Randy is the only GREAT trained officer in Southeast
Volusia County. He mentioned the children in Edgewater
going to New Smyrna. Mayor Thomas asked about Oak Hill.
Chief Ignasiak informed him Oak Hill is more or less a
moral obligation. We are not being reimbursed and are
doing it out of the kindness of our hearts.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned Officer Mumpower being on
the Drug Free Youth Group with her. That group serves the
three communities. She mentioned Drug Free Youth always
looking for worthwhile projects to add some money to. She
mentioned giving scholarships and other things Drug Free
Youth does. Chief Ignasiak stated that group has paid for
all the materials and items necessary to run the DARE
program at all three elementary schools.
Page 24 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
City Manager Hooper made a presentation regarding the
Chemical Purchase.
Leisure Services Director Jack Corder made a presentation
regarding the Family Fall Festival with Big O Amusements.
Mayor Thomas mentioned getting a percentage of the
proceeds. Mr. Corder informed him 15%. Mayor Thomas
reported he spoke to Christi Moeller who is very excited.
He mentioned the safety of the rides. Mr. Corder informed
him it is state mandated that these amusement companies
have to be inspected every time they set up. They received
a recommendation from the City of Minneola.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the 15% of the proceeds
would be used for. Mr. Corder informed him they would like
it to go into a special fund to use it for other events in
the future and advertising for those events. Councilman
Vincenzi asked if it is going to say that somewhere. He
wants to make sure they don’t get blended in with other
funds and disappear. Mr. Corder agreed to make sure it
goes into a special fund.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there would be adequate
parking at Whistle Stop Park. Mr. Corder informed her one
reason for holding it at Whistle Stop was so a lot of
people could walk. He spoke of also having quite a bit of
parking at Whistle Stop and they are also going to contact
Indian River Elementary to see if we can use their parking
lot.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Consent Agenda,
second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A.Foreclosure Proceedings – staff recommending
authorization for the City Manager to begin
foreclosure proceedings on the property located
at 2811 Royal Palm Drive
City Manager Hooper made a staff presentation and presented
a history of his property. He recommended Council
authorize foreclosure subject to if that closing occurs
then they back out of it. The new owner has agreed to make
Page 25 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
improvements to it. If it does not close, then they will
start the foreclosure process. It is the recommendation of
staff and the Code Enforcement Board that they pursue.
They have had numerous complaints from residents that live
next to this.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if this was the case where the
son is there sporadically and the mother doesn’t live there
at all. City Manager Hooper explained he doesn’t think he
resides there. He thinks he is there off and on and makes
some improvements.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who lives in or drives the RV.
City Manager Hooper stated it has not moved. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated this is not their primary residence because
it is not homesteaded. They have another place somewhere
else. City Manager Hooper explained what was described at
various times in the past was that the father was deceased
but that has turned out not to be accurate.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how the City could foreclose on
it. City Manager Hooper explained the City has an
outstanding lien amount of about $40,000 so the City can
petition and have the foreclosure process started.
City Manager Hooper stated in the past they have avoided it
because of the homestead and because we were in such an
inferior position in the lien.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked Fire Chief Barlow if he had met
the woman. The letter in the packet from the woman makes
it sound like she is on her deathbed and living on $400 per
month. Fire Chief Barlow confirmed they were able to
locate the mother and father who are alive and well and the
letter is not from the mother.
Councilman Vincenzi asked who lives there. Fire Chief
Barlow informed him nobody lives there. The house is in
such disarray that you can physically see outside. It is
in such disrepair and has accumulated so much garbage
around and inside the house that you could not live in it
in today’s condition.
Councilman Vincenzi asked where the parents live. Fire
Chief Barlow informed him they live in a community called
Pontra Vetra, just south of Jacksonville.
Page 26 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the closing occurring on
Friday. If the closing does occur, what is the position of
the City? City Manager Hooper informed her the City would
get reimbursed the amount of the fine.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they are aware if their
insurance company has given these people any money towards
the repairs that are needed. Councilwoman Rhodes pointed
out in the letter it states their insurance was cancelled.
Fire Chief Barlow stated the title search did not disclose
any liens by any insurance companies.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this closing did go through,
could they lower the lien. City Manager Hooper informed
her they could. The Council has the authority to do that,
not the Code Board. Councilwoman Rhodes felt this would be
an incentive. The best thing is for somebody to buy this
and clean it up. City Manager Hooper stated they have
talked to the current owners and they understand going to
closing that the $40,000 in this lien would be paid and he
didn’t think they were objecting to that. Fire Chief
Barlow stated both the proposed buyer and seller is
completely aware of the lien and that has been negotiated
within the sales contract that the City will assume all of
those liens and they are totally comfortable with that.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if this was brought before the
previous Council. City Manager Hooper informed her no.
Fire Chief Barlow commented on being successful. They have
had several rather old cases and they have been very
successful to motivate either improvements and/or sale of
these properties to responsible property owners.
City Manager Hooper commented on Code Enforcement being
stronger with their enforcement and levying fines. The
Code Board has been doing a good job on the City’s behalf
of levying fines and encouraging strongly by discipline of
those financial penalties and it’s working.
Councilwoman Rogers feels they need to support the Code
Enforcement Board.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she has heard three times over
that the property was going to be sold so she isn’t holding
her breath. She feels they should go along with the
recommendation.
Page 27 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion if there is no closing on
Friday that the City foreclose on this property, second by
Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney
City Attorney Rosenthal reported that in connection with
the River Oaks case and the surp petition filed by A.H.
Edgewater they are going to want to have another closed
session with them. They will coordinate through City
Manager Hooper on the Councils’ schedules and figure out a
time that works for everyone. They have had some ongoing
discussions and in order to move forward they feel they
need to talk again in a closed session.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if it would be sometime before
st
May 1. City Attorney Rosenthal informed him it would be
th
before April 24, which is when the next hearing is set.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if this was scheduled to be re-
st
heard on May 1? City Attorney Rosenthal informed him yes.
th,
The hearing on the motion to dismiss is on April 24which
st
could impact one way or another other the May 1 hearing.
C. City Manager Hooper
City Manager Hooper wanted to make sure the Council had the
flow chart describing the time period you’re going to see
the Land Development Code and Comp Plan process go through.
It will be in front of Council in the very near future.
City Manager Hooper stated the Council has made several
requests tonight. The listing of fifty-foot lots is going
to take a little bit of time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
The following citizen spoke:
Page 28 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006
Dave Ross
, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated in the event it
might ever occur, it would seem to him that any PUD would
require that it be changed before they would approve any
plats or any documentation that differed from the PUD.
Apparently this hasn’t been the case. They have allowed
plats and approved plats that were different than the PUD
and it seems to him the PUD should be the Bible. If there
is a need to change a plat or any document, before they
approve it, they need to change the PUD.
City Manager Hooper stated he didn’t know of any cases
where they have had that. Where there has been a plat that
has changed.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated if he was referring to Coral
Trace, they are currently in the process of still gathering
and reviewing materials with respect to that prior to it
coming back.
Mr. Ross stated the PUD said 200 units, the plat said 220
units. There was a difference. Why didn’t the PUD get
changed then? It seems the PUD should conform to
everything it follows.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated the Council hasn’t taken
action on that and they are going to be providing a legal
opinion.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Councilwoman
Rhodes moved to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 9:18
p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page 29 of 29
Council Regular Meeting
March 20, 2006