07-24-2006 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 24, 2006
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Excused
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
Interim City Manager Jon Williams Present
Assistant City Attorney Nick Palmer Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. Presentation of reclaimed water rate structure
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth
presented a brief overview of the reclaimed water system,
some of the problems they have had with it, the solutions
they proposed to take care of those problems and they are
going to end up getting to the rate structure they are
actually proposing. The rate structure they have been
sending out in the bills, as an informational package is
not going to be the rate structure they are going to be
recommending that the Council go ahead and eventually act
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on a resolution for. At the end of the meeting, if Council
agrees, they will be asking permission to go ahead and take
the new rate and do a couple informational billings before
it goes in affect so people can again adjust to what the
rates would be on that.
Mr. Wadsworth spoke of the sewer being done in Florida
Shores as part of the capital improvement program in 1993.
Along with that they upgraded the sewer treatment plant
from a secondary plant to an advanced waste treatment
facility and it included a component for reclaimed water.
One of the reasons they did that was we were mandated by
the Florida Department of Environmental Protection to start
eliminating the discharge to the Indian River. We are
allowed by design flow to discharge 30% of the annual
average daily flow to the river. With our plant being a
2.75 million gallon plant it means we can discharge up to
380,000 gallons a day into the river. This year we are
averaging just a little over 200,000. We haven’t
discharged anything lately due to the drought we have been
experiencing. He spoke of St. John’s requiring the City,
as part of the CUP permit, to go ahead and put at least 10%
of the reclaimed water flow into irrigation to reduce the
dependency on potable water.
Mr. Wadsworth stated within the first two years, we went
over 1,000 customers. We averaged about 250 a year up
until 2004 when the Council told them to put a moratorium
on because we weren’t providing a sufficient level of
service to the customers in Florida Shores.
Mr. Wadsworth then commented on the problems to the system
shortly after it went into effect. He commented on a lot
of the sprinkler heads fouling because of not putting a
cover on the reclaimed water storage tank and algae and
particles that got in that were pumped into the system
which caused a lot of problems to people’s sprinkler heads.
They went ahead and domed the tank at a cost of about
$347,000 in 1996.
Mr. Wadsworth then commented on meeting peak water demand
due to the storage problems. We only had a 1 million
gallon tank and kept adding customers. It wasn’t enough to
meet peak demands. In 1996, they increased the storage
they had to 4 million gallons from 1 million gallons and
added a bunch of high service pumps capable of meeting a
higher demand. He spoke of securing permission from the
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DEP and St. John’s to go ahead and get makeup water from
the borrow pit that was next to the sewage treatment plant
on Mango Tree Drive. St. John’s went ahead and permitted
up to 1 million gallons per day withdrawal, annual daily
average. He spoke of not being limited to 1 million
gallons per day so during peak demand periods we can
actually withdraw more. He spoke of having to construct an
augmentation pump station structure in order to take the
water out of the lake in order to pump the water through
the plant so it could properly disinfected and filtered
prior to being discharged to the reclaimed water
distribution system. This cost about $2.1 million in 2003.
Mr. Wadsworth then commented on the problems they had as
they continued to add customers, especially in the southern
and southwest corner of Florida Shores not being able to
get sufficient pressure to run their sprinkler systems.
They took a look at the distribution system and found at
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17 and Mango there was one section of pipe where they lost
17 pounds of pressure within a few feet. To get a more
equitable distribution of water to the reclaimed water
system from the northern part to the southern part of
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Florida Shores they ran a 16-inch line from 17 and Needle
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Palm to 25 and Willow Oak. That was done for $804,000.
Mr. Wadsworth spoke of having a flat rate user fee. He
spoke of the problem with this being people misusing it and
over watering and causing some problems. While they were
doing the meter replacements on the potable system, they
talked to Johnson Controls and went ahead and decided to
meter the reclaimed system so they could make sure they
could identify the people misusing the system and they
could be charged accordingly for what they were using
beyond what was necessary.
Mr. Wadsworth stated the total amount the City has invested
in the system since 1993 when it went in is a little over
$4.5 million. Originally the hookup fee to connect to the
reclaimed system during the first year was $150. It went
up to $200 the very next year to cover costs at a flat rate
fee of $5 per month. They went out on a limb and
encouraged everybody to use all the water they could to
discourage discharge to the Indian River and to meet our
CUP demands. When the demand exceeded supply, they started
restricting the use of the reclaimed water system. They
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use to do a north/south that separated at 25 Street in
Florida Shores. That proved to ineffective so we went to
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odd/even days much like St. John’s did with the potable and
well water. The flat rate fee that was initiated in 2004
was to cover a lot of the costs for the major reclaimed
initiative the City did. They decided at that time to go
ahead and raise the water connection fee for reclaimed
water to better reflect the cost due to the metering and
everything and to also go ahead and implement a reclaimed
water impact fee so new users to the system would pay for
part of the cost that were initiated to serve additional
people. Right now, if you were in the Shores and could
connect to the reclaimed water system the total would be
$1,118.19. The current prevailing monthly fee is $10.53.
Mr. Wadsworth then went over the rate structure. They sat
down with Johnson Controls and looked at several ways to go
ahead and make the amount of money they needed to pay debt
service and for the improvements they did. It was a pretty
arbitrary rate structure. He spoke of this providing a
total shock to a lot of residents when they provided the
informational billing. They wanted to get everybody’s
attention but they certainly didn’t want to stress
everybody out and cause some of the problems it has caused.
The base rate is $3.00, 0-10,000 is $.80 per 1,000, 10,000-
12,000 is $1.25 per 1,000, over 12,000 is $3.30 per 1,000.
Parts of those rates were picked out because they were the
same at the time as what our water rates were. They wanted
people to equate reclaimed water with potable water in the
sense it was a viable commodity and it was a resource and
not just something the City was trying to get rid of. They
wanted people to conserve and treat it with a little more
respect. They realize after seeing some of the rates they
started sending out in the billing was going to be too
excessive for people to do lawn irrigation. They want the
neighborhoods in Florida Shores to look nice and they want
people to take pride in their yards. Edgewater is a great
City and they don’t want to discourage people from taking
care of their property. At this point, they aren’t
recommending adopting the rates that have been going out in
the informational billing.
Mr. Wadsworth explained what they did was took a real hard
look at the lot sizes in Florida Shores and tried to come
up with an average for a typical lot, 80’ X 125’. They
also included the twenty-foot right-of-way out front by the
road. Most people do a good job of mowing and maintaining
that as well for the City. Based on the lot size of 80’ X
125’, it would be 11,200 feet. They figured the average
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impervious surface would be 3,000 feet. Your open space
left to irrigate would be a little over 8,000. At the inch
and a half application rate per week that St. John’s
describes now, it would add up for a normal residence in
Florida Shores when there is no rainfall to about 30,000
gallons per month. He spoke of this being a worse case
scenario. Based on the informational rates they have been
sending out, if they were to use 30,000 gallons, you would
get a bill for $72.90. Again, they weren’t recommending
that be the rate structure that is adopted.
Mr. Wadsworth went over the rate structure staff is
proposing tonight to go ahead and adopt. The base rate,
which includes usage up to 20,000 gallons, would be a flat
$10.00. 20,000–30,000 gallons would be a precautionary
zone. That amount you would be charged over the minimum
but it’s really not a hard amount. You have some
discretion in use. That is the time when you get above a
minimum bill, you can start looking at what you can do to
conserve and it shouldn’t provide a terrible shock like the
other one did in terms of money. Anything above 30,000
gallons is considered to be more than necessary and
certainly beyond a worse case scenario. People that are
abusing need to have a wake up call. If they choose to use
more than that, they have to pay the cost. He then
commented on how they came up with the base rate. There is
a certain cost for the improvements already in the ground
that we have to pay debt service on. Those particular
things go beyond just effluent disposal. When the system
first went in the Shores, nobody in the Shores was assessed
individually for reclaimed water because the thinking was
effluent disposal is a function of everybody in the City.
Everybody uses the plant, not just the people in the Shores
and disposing of that waste should equally apply to all the
users of the system. The augmentation pump station and
intake they constructed on the lake, the only people in the
City that benefits are the reclaimed water users in Florida
Shores so that cost should be passed on to them. The same
way with the reclaimed water meters and a portion of the
16” line. The $10 will help recover part of the cost to
the debt service payments we had mainly on the bank loan
when they did the $2.1 million worth of improvements and
the metering system that was $1.3 million. He feels this
is a pretty fair rate. The rate for 20,000 to 30,000
gallons, it is basically the same cost as the base rate is.
The base rate, if you break the $10 down into what the cost
is per $1,000 gallons it is $.50. They aren’t charging
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another increment for using more than that. They are
trying to make people aware to conserve.
Mr. Wadsworth stated at the other rate, the cost was $72.90
for 30,000 gallons. With the rate structure they are
recommending, which he feels is fair to everybody, the bill
would be $15 as opposed to $72.90.
Mr. Wadsworth informed Council they would like consensus
from the Council if they think the rates are going to be
adequate and believe that is what they should be doing,
they would like to include that on a couple of billings so
people get used to that and they will bring a resolution
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back to Council and they want that enacted for October 1.
He would want to go ahead and carry on with not doing any
further connections in the Shores for a while until they
see how the system operates and what people’s usage is
going to be once they are accustomed to the new rates.
Mayor Thomas asked how much we are emptying into the Indian
River. Mr. Wadsworth informed him the average this year
has been 217,000 gallons a day. That is because the winter
months were wetter than usual.
Mayor Thomas asked what type of water we are emptying,
stormwater or reclaimed water. Mr. Wadsworth informed him
it is basically reclaimed water. It is plant effluent that
has been treated and filtered. They have to remove the
chlorine before it is discharged. They can go up to
830,000 gallons per day and we are only doing 217,000
gallons per day. In the past couple of months, he didn’t
believe they had hardly any.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the public knew they were
going to be having a meeting for their input also at the
Florida Shores Clubhouse on August 2nd. Mr. Wadsworth
didn’t know how well that had been circulated or announced.
Interim City Manager Williams stated they are going to
advertise it. They have also provided a message on our
website and they will be providing via newspaper
advertisement as well that they will be holding that
workshop.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on when they first started
with the reclaimed water it was a throw away item. Every
city felt that way about it. St. John’s and more attention
to water conservation has changed the emphasis that this is
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a more treasured type of commodity. She spoke of every
city facing an increase. She mentioned reclaimed water
only being available in Florida Shores, which she felt some
people might not realize. She spoke of paying more for the
more you use and this being a conservation measure that St.
John’s encourages us to do. She spoke of needing St.
John’s approval on things and the City’s Consumptive Use
Permit and waiting to hear from St. John’s about our CUP.
Only about five or six cities have heard. This is the type
of thing they look at to see that Edgewater is trying to
conserve water.
Mr. Wadsworth further explained it is an inclining block
rate. He spoke of the cost associated with treating the
water and there being more cost, which is why there is a
graduation from the $.50 to the $1.00 as well. It costs
the City more to produce and they pass that along to the
users and causing the need for the extra cost.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on concerns from the
residents that have more than two lots. She mentioned new
homes, with the new building codes, will not be grassing
three lots but instead putting in waterless types of
things. That is the type of thing that the developers are
being required to do today.
Mr. Wadsworth spoke of upping the allotment from what they
talked about before as far as the amount of water per lot.
He spoke of when the original computations were done
throughout Florida Shores being based on a ½ inch
application twice a week. He spoke of information coming
out from the University of Florida extension, Volusia
County Environmental and WAV that says that is sufficient.
Most people are used to getting the ¾ inch twice a week.
They are trying to stay consistent with that and trying to
make sure when people think water conservation they don’t
have all the conflicting views. They have adjusted their
figures to reflect that.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if this equates with the two
days a week required on the east side of the City. Mr.
Wadsworth explained reclaimed water is exempt from those
conditions. They can still water the three days a week.
He suggested they do three half-inch applications rather
than three ¾ inch applications.
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Councilman Vincenzi stated he argued against those rates
from the beginning. He didn’t think they were right and
felt they were too excessive. He felt the new proposed
rates were a lot more reasonable. It gives people enough
water that they can maintain their lawn and it isn’t over
charging. He felt it was great that they were charged more
if they go above 30,000. He felt 30,000 gallons was a
reasonable amount for someone to maintain their plants and
lawns. He asked about implementing an informational
billing. Mr. Wadsworth informed him that is what they have
discussed. Councilman Vincenzi felt that was a great idea.
He felt instead of just providing the rates for if you use
this much it will cost you this much that the guidelines
should also be provided.
Mr. Wadsworth stated he thought they had the capability to
do that. Interim City Manager Williams confirmed they did.
They will try to incorporate it into the informational
bills as they are currently written. Mr. Wadsworth agreed
to do this.
Councilman Vincenzi feels this is a much more livable
structure than the old one. Mr. Wadsworth stated it
wouldn’t have the same shock value initially though but at
least they got people’s attention.
Councilman Vincenzi stated his opinion is it wasn’t
intentionally put in place to get people’s attention. He
felt they were serious about it.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilman Vincenzi and
felt it was a good idea to provide the public with some
guidelines. She spoke of a property on Willow Oak Drive
that put the stones with the islands of plants and she
likes it. It may be something she might do some day. She
felt this was a better way to go.
Mayor Thomas expressed concern with the 200,000 gallons
that are going into the river a day. He asked if they have
a goal set not to do that or why isn’t that 200,000 gallons
being utilized.
Mr. Wadsworth commented on this being a wet weather
discharge that the City is allowed to do. Usually the only
time they have to do it is during excessive rain. The
State recognizes that. For future developments, they are
requiring them to install reclaim systems themselves and
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maybe storage ponds onsite so some of that flow they can
send there and get rid of the whole thing. Right now it is
hard to do in Florida Shores alone. They have voluntary
connections and they have about 3,000 right now. He spoke
of not having any additional storage. One of the things
they have considered doing is storing it in the lake that
we withdraw from but there are some parameters they have to
go through to be able to accomplish that. They had talked
about making that a park and some aspects of that may be in
conflict. They are always looking for alternatives.
Obviously their goal is zero discharge. They really don’t
want to send a drop to the river and they are always trying
to find ways to shut that down totally. They don’t ever
want to give that ability to do that up because sometimes
there are emergency situations.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on the canals on Mission Road
being dry and asked why. Mayor Thomas informed her it is
extremely dry. Councilwoman Rhodes couldn’t recall any
time she has driven down Mission Road and the canals were
dry.
Mr. Wadsworth informed her the Hammock has to fill back up.
It is empty. It won’t go into the canals until the Hammock
fills up.
Councilwoman Lichter had a question concerning the systems
the people had before in Florida Shores. Some have wells.
She spoke of calls she received from people that were going
to revert back to their well system with the old rates that
were proposed. She asked if someone puts in a new home in
Florida shores if they can get a well.
Mr. Wadsworth informed her they could go the well way right
now. If they declare, which they have, a moratorium on the
reclaimed water, which means it is not available, then they
are allowed to pursue other alternatives. The City doesn’t
issue well permits. They have to go through Volusia
County. As long as they aren’t making that resource,
reclaimed water available, yes, they can go to a well for
an option.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if someone that currently has
reclaimed water could go back to using their well. Mr.
Wadsworth stated if they had a well onsite that would be an
option. They could request the service be capped if they
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wanted to. He stated they couldn’t have the two
interconnected onsite.
Councilman Vincenzi asked about the moratorium and not
hooking up any new customers. He asked if they were going
to wait and see how the system can handle it.
Mr. Wadsworth explained with the new rates, he imagined
people would be doing some adjustment of their usage.
After a couple of months people are going to find their
comfort level with that. Once they establish that they
will know if they have enough product to meet the demands
at all times. He would rather see when people get
accustomed to the news rates how much they are going to use
and what their habits are going to be at that time.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they are planning on
implementing the new rates within a couple of months. Mr.
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Wadsworth stated hopefully October 1 for the new fiscal
year.
Councilman Vincenzi asked about installing or allowing new
customers to hook up. He would like to see them make sure
the system can handle it or if it can’t what they have to
do to augment it if they decide to add customers. That
would mean going through another dry season. Mr. Wadsworth
stated he would be comfortable after a couple of months if
they wanted to lift the moratorium when the new rates go
into effect. Councilman Vincenzi wanted to make sure they
didn’t add customers during the wet season when no one uses
the water and then they run into the same problem again
where they are running out of water. Mr. Wadsworth
commented on Florida Shores being largely developed and
with the cost of hooking up to the system now people aren’t
exactly knocking each other down to get to it. If they
declare it is open they are forcing people in that position
because then they don’t have the option of reclaimed water
or well. If the reclaimed water is available the County is
going to make them connect to that system. He wants to
make sure they can make the demand before they make that
commitment.
Mayor Thomas felt staff did a very good job covering all
the basis.
Interim City Manager Williams informed Council the proposed
base rate is $10.00, which is a reduction over the current
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rate. Once they implement these rates, the customer will
see a reduction in the current base rate of $.53 per month.
As soon as they get consensus tonight they are looking at
bringing the informational bills with the new rates will go
out as early as Thursday for Section 2, in time for the
reclaimed workshop at the Florida Shores Clubhouse. On
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September 25 they will bring this back for an amendment
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for an effective date of October 1
.
Mayor Thomas confirmed they were not looking for a vote
tonight just a consensus. Interim City Manager Williams
confirmed they were looking for a consensus.
It was the consensus of Council to go ahead and take the
new rate and do a couple informational billings before it
goes in affect so people can again adjust to what the rates
would be.
4. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Mayor Thomas had nothing at this time.
Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated on Friday the General Employees
Pension Board met and since they have such a problem with
the City’s contribution to the pension, it’s costing the
City a lot of money, they hired a consultant and if things
go the way they should go hopefully they will be able to
cut that ¼ mill out of the millage rate in savings of
pension costs alone.
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Councilwoman Lichter reported that on August 23 there was
going to be a most important Water Authority vote, whether
to continue WAV or not. She has a very strong feeling that
WAV will continue. It will take ¾ vote to disband it and
there are many that still see the value of working together
and not ending up with water wars. She spoke of the
Managers Group meeting a couple of times to hear all the
angles, the TAC Group has met and the Legislative Group has
met. She agreed to keep the Council informed. She spoke
of the Utilities Commission making the press because they
said they were going to go their own way. New Smryna is
one of the only cities that have a Utilities Commission and
they felt they should have been the representatives from
the City, not someone from the legislative body. They have
said they want to put in a saltwater plant. They have also
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said they want new wells closer to Deland. That is the
kind of action that starts water wars. That is what the
WAV Group has been trying to avoid for three years. They
hope St. John’s will become more forceful.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of a letter in their packets
from a lady in Edgewater that rents her home to people that
got stuck with very a very high water bill from a tenant
that was evicted and she would like the City again to look
at the idea of the tenant being billed and not the owner of
a property. She suggested maybe they should look at this
subject again.
5. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Andy Anderson
, Pine Tree Drive, informed Mayor Thomas he
campaigned on a platform of controlled growth. According
to what they have been reading lately, first he voted for
the two towers along U.S. #1. He voted against them and
then he voted for them. He, his wife and his neighbors
have been doing a lot of talking and they are disappointed
with his voting record. They thought he would be more
consistent with controlled growth and stick with the whole
platform when he ran for Mayor. He stated they could be
wrong and maybe they are misinterpreting and not seeing
something. It looks like it’s not turning out that way.
He spoke of there being a split in the City Council tonight
with some wanting growth and some not wanting growth. He
hopes they are wrong with their interpretation of the way
Mayor Thomas has been voting. He hopes the trend doesn’t
continue in that direction. He spoke of not being able to
stop growth but too much at once not being good.
Roy Hammock
, Travelers Palm Drive, stated he moved to
Florida Shores 2 ½ years ago and the reclaimed water was
$5. There was a 100% increase to $10 and now this is going
to cause it to go up another 50% for him because he is
probably going to have to pay $15. To put a half an inch
of water down in his yard it is going to require about
22,000 gallons. He spoke of sprinklers not being accurate
and putting more water down in some areas and not enough
down in other areas. He asked Council to consider either
dropping the base rate down a couple of dollars or take the
gallons per month that you are allowed to use up to 30,000
gallons. He spoke of still having to pay even if he
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doesn’t use any water at all, such as during a rainy month.
He is on a fixed income and is retired. He was ready to
dig a well after the shock value of the first set of
proposed rates. He isn’t prepared to have increases keep
going up. He spoke of health care benefits that keep being
taken away from him. He is finding himself getting into a
pinch and is very concerned about things like this.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, felt Councilwoman
Rhodes gave them some good news tonight and he thanked her.
He asked if there was a possibility that it could be more
than ¼ mill. He is assuming there is at least $261,000
coming off the pension thing after this meeting. He asked
when the meetings are held and if they are before they have
to submit. He knows they won’t be before we have to submit
the TRIM rate.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are working very hard to
make it happen before that. Mr. Capria feels they should
vote on 5.95 based on that news.
Mr. Capria asked that due to Item 9B – Setting of Millage
Rate being at the end of the agenda, he requested it be
moved up on the agenda after Citizen Comments.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t feel that was fair and felt if
they had to stay everybody should have to stay.
Jeanne DelNigro
, 3130 Tamarind Drive, stated years ago when
the reclaimed water was put in, they were told it would be
$5 per month, never an increase. She feels these people
should not be paying more money for this reclaimed water.
It was already set way back. Mr. Wadsworth didn’t remember
the statement that it would never go up. She would like to
know for sure because their understanding was it was going
to be $5 per month and that was it. They weren’t going to
put meters on the reclaimed water. She would like to know
why and stated she didn’t understand this.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she thought District 4 started
to have a terrible problem of not getting any.
Mayor Thomas informed Councilwoman Lichter this wasn’t a
debate and asked her to let Ms. DelNigro have her time.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she was just trying to answer
her question. She had no intention of a debate.
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Ms. DelNigro asked for someone to go back to those minutes
of when the reclaimed water went in. At that time she
thought it was $175 to hook up and then it was $5 per
month. If she is not mistaken the Council said at that
time that the $5 would stay at $5. There will be no
increases on the reclaimed water. She stated when you
flush your toilet, you are paying for it and then when you
use it on your lawn, you are paying for it again. She
asked if this makes sense.
Mayor Thomas and Councilwoman Rhodes stated yes.
Ms. DelNigro stated it doesn’t click in her head. She is
already paying for it on her water bill.
Councilwoman Lichter informed Mayor Thomas she felt none of
the Council should be able to answer if she couldn’t
before.
Ms. DelNigro again asked for someone to look in the minutes
and let her know. She was pretty sure she was right on
that.
Interim City Manager Williams agreed to research those
rates and provide that information to Ms. DelNigro.
Mayor Thomas asked Councilwoman Lichter if she would like
to respond.
Councilwoman Lichter stated problems started to develop
especially in District 4 because there was insufficient
pipe, wrong usage, etc. Some of these details, expensive
type of improvements that Mr. Wadsworth has told them they
put in, was a result or purposely put in to help get more
equity all over the City. She believed she was on the
Council back then and to her knowledge never was $5 ever
promised forever. Every City did about the same type of
mentality. They thought it was something that was being
given away and that it was a throw out and that was all it
was worth. However the cities fast learned from St. John’s
that this is a special commodity and it became more of a
treasure. She feels when Interim City Manager Williams
looks it up they are going to find that it was never
promised that forever it would stay $5.
Ms. DelNigro asked how much it costs to hook up. Mayor
Thomas informed Ms. DelNigro she wasn’t there at the
Page 14 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
beginning of the meeting and that Mr. Wadsworth gave a
detailed presentation and she wasn’t there for it. Interim
City Manager Williams stated there is an impact fee of a
little over $1,000. Mayor Thomas stated and Mr. Wadsworth
gave the reasoning for it.
Ms. DelNigro asked Interim City Manager Williams if he
would call her and he informed her he would.
Dominic Capria, 606 Topside Circle, stated he made a
request and felt he deserved the respect of a yes or no.
Nobody said anything. Do they move it up or don’t they?
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are going to finish
everybody’s comments. Mr. Capria stated then they would
let them know if they are going to move it up or not.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him right.
Ronnie DuBois, 1330 Mango Tree Drive, stated the
presentation Mr. Wadsworth made earlier on the reclaimed
water eased her mind quite a bit. She was really upset
when she came to the meeting but now she feels it makes
sense. She asked how long this rate is going to be
implemented and if it will go up every year or what are
they looking at projected in the future. She has only been
here four years and it has increased quite a bit. When
they took it over, they are still paying for it in their
mortgage, the hookup because it was left over from the
other people.
Ms. DuBois stated she had the City come out and look at her
meter. She has a system that is automated and programmed.
A neighbor down the street also had the same people put the
same system in and when they came to check her meter they
said there were no leaks but that she had used over 30,000
and that it was going to be a projected $91.00 bill. The
neighbor up the street is only getting $3 base bills every
month and they are hooked up by the same company that did
their irrigation system. She questioned why hers would be
that different from theirs and why aren’t they having
anything read on theirs. When she brought that up to the
gentleman that came to her house, he told her she just
worry about her own bill. She didn’t like that answer and
didn’t feel that was a fair enough answer. They are hooked
up to the reclaimed water and are only paying the projected
$3 base fee since they implemented it.
Page 15 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if their timer is set the same as
hers. Ms. DuBois informed her they water more than anybody
in the neighborhood. She would like to know from the water
people who could look into the situation to make sure it is
all fair.
Rob Hunter, 2521 Travelers Palm Drive, stated he is feeling
pretty good with the reclaimed rates. His concern was with
the 6.45 millage rate. He seconded the gentleman’s request
to bump that up.
Dave Conizner, Unity Tree Drive, stated the watering system
was new to him and asked for information in the future as
to how many gallons per minute it takes for half an hour or
hour of running. He knows different systems have different
sprinklers but he would assume it should be fairly close to
how much gallonage so they could have an idea of how long
to water. He said it is nice to see green grass after
coming from Indiana where everything is usually burnt up up
there this time of the year. He asked by people watering
even when it rains a lot doesn’t that keep the cost down
from putting the money in the river. He clarified that if
they don’t water because it is raining then they have to
pay to put it into the river. He expressed concerns with
not knowing how much water he is putting on his lawn due to
purchasing the home with the system already there. He
spoke of dissipating the water into their yards so they
don’t have to put it into the St. John’s River.
Art Martin, Yule Tree Drive, wanted to talk about the
millage rate and asked if he should talk now or wait until
that item.
Mayor Thomas told him whichever he preferred.
Interim City Manager Williams informed Council that item
the action tonight was not scheduled for a public hearing
but if Council’s pleasure was to move it up they could do
so.
Mr. Martin stated according to the News Journal, a couple
of weeks ago they put out the tax structure and this town
has the highest tax rate in Volusia County. He didn’t
understand that because every time they say they want to
get something done in this town they say they will raise
the millage rate and then they say in a couple of years
they will give it back to you. When it comes time to get
Page 16 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
it back then the City Manager or somebody else says they
can’t do that or they have to cut services. With the
hurricanes we had a couple of years ago it is Joe taxpayer
that gets nailed on everything, every insurance policy,
automobile, homeowners, the works. Every time somebody
wants extra money they go to the taxpayer. He didn’t think
that was fair. It is about time the millage rate got back
where it is supposed to be. If it is not, that tells him
the Council isn’t doing a good job.
Pat Card, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, stated there has been a
great deal of publicity lately regarding the Pension Plans.
The way they determine how much the Pension Plan has cost
the City is when the last living participant dies. Until
then it is all assumptions. He presented an example of how
an assumption can work both ways. He urged the Council to
be very careful if they come up and change assumptions
whether they know what the assumptions really are because
what they could do is defer the cost of the pensions to the
next generation of kids.
Mr. Capria stated he had not spoken on the millage rate and
would like to do that.
Mr. Capria asked when the next workshop was. Interim City
th
Manager Williams informed him August 14. Councilwoman
Rhodes informed him that was only going to be the
Enterprise Funds and that they had already done the general
budget. Mr. Capria stated he thought they were going to
discuss that further in the workshops.
Mr. Capria asked what has happened with the dredging
material and if the City has gotten any money yet and if we
are going to get any money. Mayor Thomas stated they
weren’t going to answer that right now and they weren’t
going to debate it. Mr. Capria asked if he would get an
answer for anything he asked. Mayor Thomas informed him
they would do it at the end. Mr. Capria stated he would
wait until the end to bring them up.
Mayor Thomas asked for a show of hands of how many people
think there is a problem with their water. He stated yes
they have a problem with their water and they are going to
run out of water. He mentioned Councilwoman Lichter
serving on the Water Authority of Volusia (WAV) and spoke
of the cities fighting over water right now and that is why
they are pulling out of WAV. They don’t want anybody
Page 17 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
controlling their water. Edgewater is being the good
steward with St. John’s and setting the example for that.
He further commented on water being pumped to the Keys.
They are going to be pumping water to us if they don’t
conserve. He is tired of hearing about people wanting to
water their Floratam grass. If someone were going to
charge him more money to water his Floratam grass he would
do something about it and put in rocks or palm trees or
native vegetation. If they don’t conserve water they are
going to be paying for a pipeline next to I-95.
There was a fifteen-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:05 p.m. and reconvened at 8:20 p.m.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
nd
A.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-19, Janice Shore
requesting annexation of 1+ acres of property
located at 1008 Flying M Court
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-19 into the
record.
Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff
presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-19,
Janice Shore requesting annexation of 1+ acres of property
located at 1008 Flying M Court, second by Councilman
Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-20, Janice Shore
B.1
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 1.0+ acres of
property located at 1008 Flying M Court as Low
Density Transition with Conservation Overlay
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-20 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Page 18 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the rezoning request was
going to be later. Mr. Lear informed him rural
transitional. Councilman Vincenzi asked him what the
difference was. Mr. Lear informed him they were basically
the same. The future land use is low-density transition
and the zoning is called rural transitional. Councilman
Vincenzi then stated there is no reason for going through
all these things. Mr. Lear informed him they had to by
Florida Statutes. Councilman Vincenzi asked what she
wanted to do. Mr. Lear informed him build a house in the
City.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Lear if there were going to
be other streets in the area that were named Flying with a
letter. Mr. Lear informed her no.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-20, Janice
Shore requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 1.0+ acres of property
located at 1008 Flying M Court as Low Density Transition
with Conservation Overlay, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
C.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-22, Stephen and Jill
Hole requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to change 0.17+ acres of
property located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue
from Low Density Residential to Commercial
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-22 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
There was a discussion regarding there being different
zonings and land uses on this property.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilman Vincenzi moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-22,
Stephen and Jill Hole requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change 0.17+
Page 19 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
acres of property located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from
Low Density Residential to Commercial, second by
Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
D.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-24, Dana and Marcia
Cornelius requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change
0.38+ acres of property located south of 114 Oak
Ridge Avenue from High Density Residential and
Commercial to Low Density Residential
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-24 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-24, Dana
and Marcia Cornelius requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to change 0.38+
acres of property located south of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue
from High Density Residential and Commercial to Low Density
Residential, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
E.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-21, Janice Shore
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 1.0+ acres of property located at
1008 Flying M Court as RT (Rural Transitional)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-21 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-21, Janice
Shore requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 1.0+ acres of property located at 1008 Flying M
Page 20 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Court as RT (Rural Transitional), second by Councilman
Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
F.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-23, Stephen and Jill
Hole requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to change 0.17
+ acres of property
located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-3
(Single Family Residential) to B-3 (Highway
Commercial)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-23 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-23,
Stephen and Jill Hole requesting an amendment to the
Official Zoning Map to change 0.17+ acres of property
located east of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-3 (Single
Family Residential) to B-3 (Highway Commercial), second by
Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-25, Dana and Marcia
G.1
Cornelius requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to change 0.38+ acres of property
located south of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-5
(Multi-Family Residential) and B-3 (Highway
Commercial) to R-3 (Single-Family Residential)
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-25 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-25, Dana
and Marcia Cornelius requesting an amendment to the
Official Zoning Map to change 0.38+ acres of property
Page 21 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
located south of 114 Oak Ridge Avenue from R-5 (Multi-
Family Residential) and B-3 (Highway Commercial) to R-3
(Single-Family Residential), second by Councilwoman
Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
st
H.1
Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-26, amending Chapter
11 (Occupational Licenses, Taxes and Regulations)
of Article I (General) by amending Sections 11-7
(Administrative Fees, Application Fees and
Inspection Fees) and 11-8 (License Tax Schedule)
of the Code of Ordinances
Assistant City Attorney Palmer read Ord. 2006-O-26 into the
record.
Mr. Lear made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Wadsworth if there is
something wrong with the sprinkling system or reclaimed
water or water meters if there is a charge for that. Mr.
Wadsworth informed her if it is the first time no. They
don’t charge to go out and verify.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated in this City they are trying to
promote economic development. In order to take the tax
burden off of the residential we need for commercial and
industrial businesses. The cost of doing business has sky
rocketed. It is her intention to vote no on this because
she thinks they should cut them a break for another year.
Councilwoman Lichter stated all of these do not have to do
with people doing business. She felt such emotion might be
proper if it were certain ones that involved business. She
was informed they are all occupational licenses and have to
do with business. She mentioned it being a general sweep
and some being high and some being low. She felt this was
a tough one but felt it probably had to be done if they are
going to meet the tax needs, the request that people are
asking for services in this community and the list of
things that still need to be done to make it attractive
community for growth. She would probably vote yes.
Councilman Vincenzi asked the biggest increase that is on
the list. Mr. Lear informed him of the highest being $10
with the lowest being $1 or $1.50. Councilman Vincenzi
Page 22 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
felt it interesting they take the highest one and increase
it $10 per year which works out to less than $1 per month
and $.25 per week and that is too high an increase but they
talk about a couple of dollars a week for residential
increased on taxes and it is acceptable. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated no it is not. Councilman Vincenzi stated he
isn’t voting for the tax increase either but he is voting
for this. He feels this is a really minimal cost.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it was his right and it is a
minimal cost except for most of the businesses in this town
are small businesses. They aren’t large except for Boston
Whaler. Every dollar counts. Councilman Vincenzi stated
the biggest increase on that list is $10 per year.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it doesn’t matter. Every dollar
counts. They are paying more for gas and more for this and
what they do is pass it on to the consumer so you are going
to pay in taxes and you are going to pay more for this too.
Councilwoman Lichter stated half of the items they don’t
have in the City.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-26,
amending Chapter 11 (Occupational Licenses, Taxes and
Regulations) of Article I (General) by amending Sections
11-7 (Administrative Fees, Application Fees and Inspection
Fees) and 11-8 (License Tax Schedule) of the Code of
Ordinances, second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilwoman Rhodes voted NO
.
Councilman Vincenzi mentioned the caveat at the bottom that
states it has to be majority plus one. Assistant City
Attorney Palmer confirmed that would be three plus one.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned this not passing. Assistant
City Attorney Palmer confirmed the first reading of the
ordinance passed but that it would need a positive vote of
a majority plus one at second reading to become effective.
Councilman Vincenzi questioned it coming back for a second
reading. Assistant City Attorney Palmer informed him that
was correct.
7.BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
8. CONSENT AGENDA
Page 23 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
A.Sludge Disposal – staff recommending approval of
a CPI adjustment for the H & H Liquid Sludge
Disposal, Inc. Agreement at a 9.6% increase (from
$244.59 to $268.07 per load) based on the May
2006 CPI for Transportation in the South Region,
and to have an effective date of July 2006
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Consent Agenda,
second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
Agreement Renewal – staff recommending renewal of
A.
Agreement between Florida’s Coast-to-Coast
Chapter of the American Red Cross and the City of
Edgewater concerning the use of the YMCA facility
as a mass care shelter and authorize the Mayor to
execute the Agreement
Fire Chief Tracey Barlow made a staff presentation.
There was a brief discussion regarding not being able to
use the YMCA during hurricanes due to it being in a flood
zone and the structure not being constructed to handle
hurricane force winds but that it was used during the
wildfires. Fire Chief Barlow spoke of it being used in the
past as a last ditch shelter in case a storm direction
changes at the last minute and they can’t evacuate people
it is certainly safer than some of our mobile home parks.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned having an arrangement with
the schools if the children had to leave the schools they
could go there to be picked up. Fire Chief Barlow stated
Edgewater Elementary also has an agreement that if they
have to lockdown or evacuate the school, they will relocate
the children there and the parents can pick them up there.
He further spoke of using it during the recent fires.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve renewal of the
Agreement between Florida’s Coast-to-Coast Chapter of the
American Red Cross and the City of Edgewater concerning the
use of the YMCA facility as a mass care shelter and
authorize the Mayor to execute the Agreement, second by
Councilman Vincenzi
.
Page 24 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
B.Setting of Millage Rate – staff recommending
approval to advertise the millage for fiscal year
2007 at 6.45
Interim Finance Director Brett Tanner made a staff
presentation.
Interim City Manager Williams informed Council this is just
one process in setting the millage rate. This is not the
final process. The theory here being that the millage rate
be set at 6.45. They can always come back down. Once the
trim advertisements are delivered if for some reason they
set the millage at a lower rate, they can not come back up.
The final two budget hearings are scheduled for September
thth
11 and September 25. That is when final adoption of the
millage rate and adoption of the budget will be set and
hopefully they will have had some very good information
provided to them at that point in time which may warrant a
reduction of that millage rate at that point in time. This
is just a conservative measure to at least be in compliance
with the guidelines stipulated by the Florida Department of
Revenue.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she had a question.
Mayor Thomas informed her Councilwoman Rhodes said they
couldn’t discuss it. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him she
was talking about the Consent Agenda.
Councilwoman Lichter asked when they would receive the
finished project on the pension plan. Interim City Manager
Williams informed her the timeline that has been
nd
established is on August 2 the consulting group will
provide a list of attorneys and actuaries for the board to
make a recommendation to the Council to enter into an
agreement to provide the actuarial review and look at
unbundling the services. He further commented on what he
meant by unbundling. He spoke of looking at the actuarial
assumptions and different methods that could be used and
they are looking at those assumptions and trying to
determine an appropriate assumption to achieve some cost
savings without extending this out. They are trying to
Page 25 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
find a balance and funding method to achieve some cost
savings. They hope that information will be back by
st
October 1. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they need it back
th
by September 25. Interim City Manager Williams informed
her that was correct. That is their goal.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the problem she has with going
down at the moment is that we still have this total unknown
of the gasoline situation. She mentioned the Capital
projects that were taken out of the budget including any
repaving and some of those roads are bad. Interim City
Manager Williams informed her they would be evaluating that
list based off of what is approved out of the budget cycle
and the current condition of the roadways. Their plans for
the capital projects that have been proposed for the
General Fund is they will shift all those major purchases
to the third quarter of the fiscal year that way it will
provide an ample amount of time for us to look for grant
opportunities. If they haven’t been able to find those
opportunities by the time the third quarter comes, they
will have to expense the money to satisfy our capital
needs. They are going to do the due diligence that they
can.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned waiting until the third
quarter to resurface. Interim City Manager Williams stated
not necessarily, not for resurfacing, for those items they
have identified for grant opportunities.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned if the money they have to
put into the Industrial Park is considered a capital item.
Interim City Manager Williams explained they have
identified there are some contractual obligations there at
6.45. They have planned for some debt issuance to satisfy
those contractual obligations. They have also identified
the vehicle purchases. The priority list they established
during the budget workshop in setting the millage rate at
6.45 is staff’s recommendation currently.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if Travelers Palm Drive had been
resurfaced this year. Mr. Wadsworth informed her they
hadn’t done any resurfacing to date this year. Interim
City Manager Williams stated they are establishing the
priority list right now and they are getting ready to
expense those funds prior to the expenditure cut off date.
Page 26 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Mayor Thomas confirmed that Interim City Manager Williams
had several meetings with Councilwoman Rogers, Councilman
Vincenzi as well as himself to try to shave every bit of
the budget as well as several meetings with staff to shave
every bit of the budget. What they are trying to do is go
for the highest and then if they can shave it, they are
going to. Interim City Manager Williams informed him that
was correct. The theory here is this is the proposed
millage rate. They communicate that back to the Property
Appraiser’s office. They will send out the TRIM notices
and the residents will receive those identifying this as
the proposed tax rate. During the two budget hearings they
have identified in September, they can lower the millage
rate for final adoption of the millage rate and budget.
One additional item they are looking at sending out in
conjunction this year with the setting of the final two
public hearings is a facts sheet on property taxes that
they are developing internally. They are getting cost
estimates to provide that. They will provide Council with
a sample of what that will look like. The theory there is
to send out an additional mailing that specifically relates
to Edgewater and Edgewater’s taxes. Provide some history
and education information and time that for the first
hearing to take place for those residents that may want to
come and participate.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if all of the FEMA money has
come in. Interim City Manager Williams informed her no.
That is part of the proposed priority list they described
during the budget workshop. Councilwoman Lichter mentioned
having to put a certain amount of money into the reserve
fund and that wasn’t even on the top of the list. Interim
City Manager Williams stated priority is placed on
reestablishing the reserve fund. Councilwoman Lichter
stated as a taxpayer she also would like to take it down
but she is going to vote to try and wait until September
th
25, which is the last date it could be changed.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the FEMA money coming in is only
for the Shuffleboard Courts and can’t be used for anything
else.
Councilman Vincenzi stated there are a lot of reasons to
keep it where it is but there are also a lot of reasons to
lower it. He stated Councilwoman Rogers pointed out one
very good reason being because of the millage being raised
a number of years ago one mill to compensate for the
Page 27 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
pension funds. The next year the pension funds recovered
and that money was not needed and it was not taken back.
The millage was not reduced. Councilwoman Rhodes stated we
had hurricanes. Councilman Vincenzi stated we had
hurricanes but a lot of that money was reimbursed. The
reserves are recovering but are not recovered yet but they
are getting there. He asked how much the reserve shortage
was. Interim City Manager Williams informed him they are
estimating at $274,000. Councilman Vincenzi confirmed that
is what is left to bring the reserves up to what the
Charter recommends as a minimum. Interim City Manager
Williams stated based off the FY2006 budget.
Councilman Vincenzi then commented on a 35% increase in tax
revenue, which is about a $2 million increase in tax
revenue. Interim City Manager Williams confirmed it was
about $1.7 million. Councilman Vincenzi stated he doesn’t
see that the City budget has gone up $2 million in a year.
He doesn’t see the expenses there. He has seen the list of
capital projects as well as the department budgets. He
asked Interim Finance Director Tanner if he would be
telling him something different. Mr. Tanner stated he was
breaking it down by percentages. Total expenses increased
from last year’s budget are 5.05% as of right now. Total
revenue increased from last year’s budget is 5.53%. The
.5% is a $274,000 fund balance. They are looking at a 5%
increase in expenses and a 5.5% increase in revenue.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they are talking about getting
$2 million more in revenue than last year. The roll back
rate should be about 4.9. Mr. Tanner informed him it was
4.9912. Councilman Vincenzi stated that would mean if we
operated at the same level as last year the tax rate should
be 4.9 mills. Interim City Manager Williams felt the point
to consider was they are correct in saying they had a 34%
increase in tax revenue but they had other areas where the
revenues have shrunk by about $1 million. Councilman
Vincenzi asked which fund that was. Interim City Manager
Williams informed him the General Fund. That increase and
decrease basically negate each other. Councilman Vincenzi
stated he understands all that. He has seen all the
transfers but he doesn’t agree with it and he isn’t going
to agree with the 6.45 tax rate. He felt it should be
dropped at least a half a mill. That is his opinion and he
is sticking to it.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed.
Page 28 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Councilman Vincenzi didn’t see any reason to keep it at
6.45 mills.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated her opinion is they have to do
it at 6.45 mills now because if all the things don’t fall
in place then you cut off your nose to spite your face. If
you set it at 6.45 you can go down from there.
Councilman Vincenzi stated 5.95 is still allowing the City
$1.2 million more to spend. Councilwoman Rhodes stated cut
out the whole capital budget and you are at 5.95.
Councilman Vincenzi stated no you are less than that.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated no you are not. If the 35%
increase is $1.7 million, that capital budget was $1.7
million.
Interim City Manager Williams stated he is going from
memory but when they gave Council the budget during the
final workshop they gave it to them at the proposed rate of
6.45. That gave the Council $1.7 million in excess
revenues. It is Council’s pleasure if they decide to roll
back and give it all back in the terms of a roll back. If
they do that, there are no provisions in there for capital
expenditures, that priority list. They took all the
capital expenditures that were removed, identified a
priority list and then brought that back to Council. It is
still Council’s discretion but they are telling them very
clearly that there is no provisions for cars, no
contractual obligations, no Shuffleboard Court, no FEMA
revenue, and no money available for computer purchases.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated and there is no road
resurfacing.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if you take the $1.7 million what
it would take the tax rate down to. Interim City Manager
Williams informed him 5.95 but that would not give them any
of the capital expenditures that were prioritized.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the last time they were here it
was clearly stated if you cut out a certain number of
hundred thousand dollars it would drop it. Interim City
Manager Williams stated he gave Council two charts, how
they got to the $1.7 million. They took a little over $2
million worth of proposed expenditures out of there and
they took the $2 million worth of non-allocated capital
expenditures and developed a priority list and put them
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July 24, 2006
back but the budget he gave to them that night that gave
them $1.7 million was without any capital expenditures and
without a reduction in millage rate.
Councilman Vincenzi stated so you are telling me without
those capital expenditures the City is running at the same
level as it did last year. Interim City manager Williams
stated he wasn’t telling him that. He was telling him
without those capital expenditures they are only paying for
debt service, operating and personnel costs. In the
personnel and operating costs are increases associated with
increases in doing business. They started with at 6.45 how
much excess money would we have and that worked out to $1.7
million. They looked at what they took out of the budget
to get to the $1.7 million and they added back what they
thought were priorities and left the Council with a balance
of about $369,000 of which $274,000 will be used to sure up
the fund balance reserve based off the 15% minimum.
Councilman Vincenzi commented on the $1.7 million for the
capital projects equaling the amount of tax increase. So if
you take that away we have the same money we had last year.
Interim City Manager Williams stated he didn’t see the
association based off the same.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it puts you at being able to run
the City at a 5.95 millage rate.
Councilman Vincenzi then stated without the $1.7 million
they are collecting the same amount of revenue as last
year. Interim City Manager Williams confirmed he was
basically saying that excess money they could use for roll
back.
Councilman Vincenzi stated if you take the $1.7 million for
capital projects out you still have the same amount of tax
revenue as was used last year to run the City. Interim
City Manager Williams stated assuming you adopted a roll
back rate. Councilman Vincenzi stated forget the roll back
and asked how much money they had last year to run the
City. Interim City Manager Williams stated he thought it
was a little over $13 million was what they proposed.
Councilman Vincenzi asked how much it was this year with
the capital improvements that were listed. Interim Finance
Director Tanner informed him $14.9 million. Councilman
Vincenzi stated so if you take that $1.7 million out how
much do you have. Interim Finance Director Tanner informed
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
him $13.2 million. Councilman Vincenzi stated which is
about what they had last year. Interim City Manager
Williams informed him that was correct and stated in
expenditures. Councilman Vincenzi stated to him the
numbers aren’t adding up. Interim City Manager Williams
explained they have increases in personnel costs that they
have no choice but to implement those off of contractual
and open negotiations.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they need the same amount as
last year. If you take those capital projects out, where
is the increase? Interim City Manager Williams stated
personnel costs. Councilman Vincenzi stated but you have
the same amount as you had last year. Interim City Manager
Williams explained if they were going to compare apples to
apples they would have to go back to the $13 million last
year and deduct the capital expenditures out of there and
then compare it and they would see the cost and the
increase in operating expenses. Councilman Vincenzi stated
that was money they spent last year and asked how much it
was. Interim City Manager Williams informed him he didn’t
know off of the top of his head how much the capital
expenditures were. Councilman Vincenzi stated there were
other expenses in there like trying to replenish the
reserve fund. Interim City Manager Williams stated there
was about $400,000 that they proposed to increase fund
balance. We were at 10.1% at the end of the fiscal year
and they are striving to reach the Charter minimum of 15%.
They estimated in June that we would be at 12%. If their
estimations are accurate and the revenues come in the way
that they predict we would have a shortfall of about
$274,000 and that is what they are proposing they need to
increase. Councilman Vincenzi stated hypothetically if we
didn’t have a 35% increase in revenue, what would the City
do? Interim City Manager Williams informed him there
probably wouldn’t be any capital expenditures at all or
they would have to raise the millage rate or they would
have to look at cutting services. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated you aren’t raising the millage rate but you are
getting the capital projects.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they can debate it all night but
this is his opinion that things are not clear and he
doesn’t feel it needs to stay at 6.45. He feels there is
something not right.
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
Councilwoman Lichter feels the vote to have an attorney
present at every meeting was extravagant. She feels there
are some meetings, and this is a compromise because she
felt they did pretty well in the past with the liaison they
had with Paralegal Matusick to an attorney’s office, they
should determine before the fact if there is going to be
nothing controversial or nothing in a problem area, that
they may not need the services of a lawyer. That is one
area she feels they could come down. She feels Ms.
Matusick has the capability as a Paralegal of looking over
the agenda and determining which ones they need a lawyer
at. She also mentioned a lawsuit regarding the towers that
is on the books right now, which is costly for the City.
She feels they will see a great increase this year in legal
expenses.
Councilman Vincenzi feels there are many areas that could
be cut and many areas that could be debated.
Interim City Manager Williams felt the point to consider
was this is not the final say on the millage rate. All
Council is doing is, part of the TRIM compliance that says
they are going to communicate via the DR form 420 that the
proposed millage rate, and it is proposed, is 6.45. They
have two final hearings that the Council votes on. If they
can reach a lower millage rate, they will certainly do
that. He thinks that some considerations needs to be
looked at very closely, such as what the economical picture
looks like at this point. He spoke of describing the
methodology they used in calculating our own gas
consumption and whether or not that is even an appropriate
assumption at this point in time. He spoke of if gas goes
up to $4.00 per gallon and how that affects. He was
looking for council direction on what they feel is an
appropriate amount of contingency. They have gone back and
shaved those numbers. They continue to shave those numbers
and are continuing to evaluate them. They are almost at a
point where they feel somewhat uncomfortable bringing a
budget back to Council with any future reductions for the
simple fact that they are making assumptions today on
expenditures that won’t even begin to take place until
st
October 1, let alone run throughout the next year. He
feels they have to have a fair amount of conservatism built
into those numbers. They have identified after the first
budget workshop an increase of no more than 5% in operating
and described to the departments that if they couldn’t
reach that five percent they need to describe why. He
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
thinks they would all hate to get to a point where they run
out of fuel to run a Fire Truck or Police Car because they
haven’t appropriately made representations. That is a wild
thought and that wouldn’t take place but just a point of
discussion and consideration in thinking about the
proposals they are asking Council to consider tonight.
Mayor Thomas stated if they set it lower they couldn’t go
up. He feels they need to set it at this and they have two
months to work on shaving it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated before she served on the Council
the millage rate was 6.44. Now it’s 6.45. The City as
actually managed to increase to grow just based upon added
value of property. Now it has gone down and gone back up
over those years depending on what happened at the time and
what was needed. They all pay taxes. She didn’t think
there was one person on the Council that wanted the taxes
to be an iota higher than it has to be and they will do
everything they can to do it. The budget that Interim City
Manager Williams gave to them all the numbers made sense to
her. She suggested Councilman Vincenzi talk to Interim
City Manager Williams some more to get a handle on why
things are what they are. Councilman Vincenzi stated he
would. Councilwoman Rhodes stated if Councilman Vincenzi
wanted to cut out the capital budget to lower the millage
rate, he could certainly make that motion and try to do
that. Councilman Vincenzi stated that is one possibility
but he thinks there are other areas too.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are doing everything they
can and she doesn’t feel anybody wants to pay one penny
more than they have to.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, asked what the
present millage rate was. Interim City Manager Williams
informed him 6.45.
Mr. Visconti quoted from an article in the newspaper in the
past week – City Council split on millage rate.
Mr. Visconti stated why cut taxes. The media has stated
that a house valued at $125,000 would pay $806 per year, or
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
$15.50 per week or $2.20 per day. With these figures, he
would vote not to cut the taxes. The City could use the
reserve for future disasters. He spoke of building and
maintaining infrastructure and City parks and the like. To
support industrial and commercial growth in order to
enhance our tax base we are going to need funds to keep the
infrastructure abreast of all new facilities.
Mr. Visconti then commented on the reserve funds.
According to the news, our City is short $274,000 then what
is required. He asked how they could cut taxes. We are in
dire need of a new City Hall and a better Police
Department.
Mr. Visconti expressed his support for what he feels is a
very fair rate. He would not support raising the taxes.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated as he understood
the City was supposed to get quite a few dollars back on
the dredging material. Mayor Thomas stated he was told
that too. Mr. Capria asked what happened. Councilwoman
Rhodes stated FIND told us they would do it and then they
reneged. Councilwoman Lichter stated they sold it to the
County. Mr. Capria stated we have an attorney and
questioned if we could sue them.
Interim City Manager Williams informed Council they were
going to try and get FIND to describe in writing to us what
their intentions are with the dredging material. They have
not been successful to date. Mr. Capria stated every
dollar counts. He asked about the $350,000 contractual for
15 years for ParkTowne. He asked if we have checked with
the attorney to see if we can do anything about that
contract.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer stated he hadn’t looked at
the contract and would have to in order to give an answer.
Mr. Capria felt the millage rate should go down to 5.95.
Mr. Capria asked about the 35% increase in taxes bringing
in $2 million more. Last year, the increase in taxes came
in after the fact. There was $72,000 plus that was not
reported in. Let’s put that in now.
Interim City Manager Williams informed him that money is
factored in to the current operating budget and they are
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
hoping that is a surplus. He further explained to Council
what Mr. Capria was talking about.
Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Capria his three minutes was up.
Mr. Capria commented on the discussion using up some of his
time. Mayor Thomas suggested in the future he ask his
questions and they will answer them on their time.
Mr. Capria asked for a half a minute. Mayor Thomas told
him to go ahead.
Mr. Capria then asked about the 5.6% increase in salaries.
He isn’t against salary increases. He asked about 5% and
asked what the difference is between 5% and 5.6%.
Mr. Capria asked about FEMA and the shuffleboard courts and
he is of the opinion that we got a lot more money from FEMA
than we are saying. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they did
not pay us everything they promised. Mr. Capria then asked
how much the City got?
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to advertise the millage
rate for FY07 at 6.45, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-1. Councilman Vincenzi voted NO
.
Tree Removal Permit – William Quirk, 803 S.
C.
Flagler Avenue, requesting a Tree Permit to
remove one (1) 40-inch historic live oak tree
from his property
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
There was a brief discussion regarding the options listed
in the Code with regard to replacement of trees, payment
into the tree fund or a combination of both.
Councilman Vincenzi said because the tree is getting ready
to damage his house he would lean more toward letting him
take it down without having to pay the fee. Mr. Lear
informed him they have the option of waiving all the fees.
Page 35 of 37
Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
There was a brief discussion regarding the root structure
of the tree going under his house.
Councilman Vincenzi made a motion that they allow the 40”
historic live oak at 803 S. Flagler Avenue to be removed
and waive any fees involved with the historic tree
permitting regulations, second by Councilwoman Lichter.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-0
.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
a. City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
b. Assistant City Attorney Palmer had nothing at
this time.
c. Interim City Manager Williams had nothing at
this time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS/CORRESPONDENCE
The following citizen spoke:
Mayor Thomas apologized to Ms. Carlson for cutting her off
earlier.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
stated today, by fax, she received a letter from Ann
McFall, Supervisor of Elections, notifying them that she
does hereby certify that 1,968 total signatures were
verified for the City of Edgewater Charter Amendment to
prohibit building heights exceeding 35 feet. Of those
1,554 signatures were verified as registered electors in
the City of Edgewater in Volusia County. The letter was
sent to the City on July 18, 2006 so this should not come
as a surprise. She is under the impression this is the
right amount of signatures that she needs of signatures.
She believed she had more than 10% of the electoral and
they can put this on the ballot.
Assistant City Attorney Palmer informed the Council City
Clerk Wadsworth did receive the letter from ECARD as well
as the letter from the Supervisor of Elections. They are
looking at it now and working with City Clerk Wadsworth and
the Supervisor of Elections. The latest correspondence he
saw from the Supervisor of Elections would indicate that
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006
the 1,500 verified signatures would meet the 10% threshold
requirement. They are still looking at it to see exactly
the procedures that need to be followed to have that placed
on the ballot for the next General Election.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned if they had received the
letter. Assistant City Attorney Palmer confirmed City
Clerk Wadsworth had received the certification from the
Supervisor of Elections as well as from ECARD but has not
received the full stack of original signed petitions, which
had been submitted to the Supervisor of Elections.
Mr. Carlson stated Ann McFall has those and she has
th
certified them as of the 18. Ms. Carlson asked that
somebody let her know. She got started on this because she
got ignored and if she gets ignored again she could get
angrier.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Carlson to explain what it is for.
Mr. Carlson informed him this is for a 35-foot height limit
on residential buildings in the City of Edgewater in the
future. This will go on the ballot so the people of
Edgewater can elect whether they want 35 or they don’t want
35.
Mayor Thomas confirmed this would change the City Charter.
Ms. Carlson informed him it would be a City Charter
amendment.
A. Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas
adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 9:37 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
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Council Regular Meeting
July 24, 2006