03-03-2003 - Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
MARCH 3, 2003
5:30 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Schmidt called the Workshop to order at 5:30 p.m. in the
Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Donald Schmidt
Councilman James Brown
Councilman Myron Hammond
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes
Councilwoman Judith Lichter
City Manager Kenneth Hooper
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth
Paralegal Robin Matusick
Present
Present
Arrived at 5:35 p.m.
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a pledge of allegiance to the Flag.
MEETING PURPOSE
The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the Land Development
Code.
City Manager Hooper presented a history of the Land Development
Code. He further explained the process they would be following.
They will hold the first public hearing at the next Council
meeting. He wanted to hold the article regarding height until
later for a lengthy discussion. He asked Council to ask any
questions as they discuss each article.
Chief Planner Darren Lear explained the changes to the Land
Development Code by way of a Powerpoint Presentation. (Attached)
Councilwoman Lichter felt by adding Community Center to Article
III it gives a different feeling to it. City Manager Hooper
elaborated on her concerns.
Mayor Schmidt asked if 500 feet is the average for not allowing
alcoholic beverage esfablishments near churches or schools. City
Manager Hooper informed him most of the other cities have 500
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feet but there are also a few with 1,000 feet.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned the homes on U.S. #1 now being in
commercial being non-conforming. Mr. Lear commented on the
waiver which has been incorporated into the Land Development
Code. City Manager Hooper explained you can't have new
residential going into commercial.
Mr. Lear continued his presentation with Article IV. He informed
Council they would be discussing footnote 16 under Article V
after they are done going through each article.
There was a brief discussion regarding Article V, Section 21-
52.06 Public Recreation and Open Spaces.
Mr. Lear continued his presentation with Article VII due to there
being no significant changes to Article VI.
Councilwoman Lichter questioned there being a time limit on the
waiver with regard to Section 21-71.01 (2) (a) under Non-
Conforming Uses. City Manager Hooper explained the only time
limit on the initial waiver that was issued was to get them to
this point.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned why it has to be to the existing
footprint. If you have allowed someone to have their house on
their property, why can't they have whatever house they want as
long as it conforms to the other codes. City Manager Hooper
explained you don't want it to grow or get any worse. It is non-
conforming because it is a residential in a commercial area.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they added this because a man couldn't
get a second mortgage on his home so they changed it so that he
could and anybody else could that had a non-conforming home. If
you have a non-conforming home, what happens when you want to add
a room to your house. This is saying you can't do it. City
Manager Hooper stated this is saying if it burns down and it is
to be rebuilt. The other processes allow them to come in and ask
for a variance or the waiver process.
There was further discussion regarding non-conformance.
Councilwoman Rhodes feels if you have a house that is now
commercially zoned that was residential when it was built, she
doesn't think you should be penalized for it. She would like to
have this as an agenda item at some point. She feels if you own
property in a commercial area and have since before it was a
commercial area, you should have the same rights and privileges
as the people that own property in a residential area. City
Manager Hooper commented on if the property is sold, it then
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changes.
Councilwoman Lichter referred to the Comprehensive Plan.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated this does not change the Comprehensive
Plan because those places already exist.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she feels if someone owns one acre of
property and he has a house on that property and it is non-
conforming now, if it burnt down he could rebuild that house and
if he complies with the codes, for whatever that zone is, he
should be allowed to do it. City Manager Hooper explained he can
do all that except the size. He is able to build and replace to
the same size. He went on to explain if he wanted to build the
home larger he would have to get a variance. If he is in a
commercial area today and he has a residential house and he wants
to add a residential room to it, he needs a variance.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she lives in Florida Shores and she
can add a room to her house without it costing her $1,000 as long
as she complies with the setbacks. City Manager Hooper stated
that is because she is in a residential land use. Councilwoman
Rhodes feels this is wrong. She questioned how to address this
issue. City Manager Hooper explained the only way to address
this is to go back and describe in B-3 what you can do. As long
as they say B-3 is strictly commercial and they have a non-
conforming use to it, the State is going to tell them you can't
let them have a non-conforming structure that stays and expands
without it coming back and it is addressed individually. They
can make the definition of B-3 that would allow that but at this
point everything along u.S. #1 in B-3 commercial, they have
designated they don't want another square inch of residential
except to replace that that is naturally damaged.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they do want to increase it and they
do come to Council for a variance, they are not charged the
$1,000 to do that as long as they are complying with the setbacks
in B-3. City Manager Hooper informed her the Council can waive
the fee when it is in front of them.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if they can add a section that
addresses that issue, that they don't have to ask for it, it just
is. If it is non-conforming in a commercial zone and they ask
for a variance that complies with all of the other setbacks the
fee is waived. City Manager Hooper stated they can do it but in
reality this won't work.
Councilwoman Lichter feels this should take a different time
because of all they have to do. There may be other issues that
they have to go over again and can do in general before they pass
the whole thing.
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Mayor Schmidt suggested they pull this out. City Manager Hooper
agreedtto bring alternative language at the first public hearing.
They will work with City Attorney Cookson to see if there is a
way to do that.
Mr. Lear continued his presentation with Article VIII.
City Manager Hooper then went over the history for the Height
Restriction on Riverside Drive. (Attached) He then explained the
current proposal from the Planning & Zoning Board and staff.
City Manager Hooper stated what he suspects is occurring is there
is the minimum standards adopted by the County that in years past
Planning & Zoning has allowed those waivers to occur, to let
somebody move 25 feet further. Talking to the County Attorney,
he has assured him that shouldn't be occurring. Cities are
supposed to adhere to the minimum standards. The City can do
variances to side yard setbacks, the front yard setbacks but by
way of the County's Charter we shouldn't be allowing somebody to
get closer than the 25 feet to a wetlands.
City Manager Hooper stated we have had a fair number of people
asking to move closer to the water. Planning & Zoning has done
some exchange. When they presented this to Planning & zoning and
talked of the single story, it was a unanimous recommendation
that it go to single story. Since then there has been quite a
bit of discussion about that. It went back to Planning & Zoning
and they granted the two story variance at their last meeting.
The other discussion that hasn't been had is what does it mean to
the City as far as money. He spoke of building a house on the
river having a higher value. If you build a two-story house on
the river, it has an even higher value. Some of the trade-offs
are you have more tax base for being able to build a larger, two-
story and some turn into multi-million dollar homes. He spoke of
seeing assemblage of some of these lots. He also mentioned
people coming in and tearing an old house down and building a
larger house, which does economic benefit greatly to the City.
There is a real dilemma of not so much visual or looking across
the river, that is a minor component. A major component is
setback from the river, zoning overlay that would cover the east
side and be able to describe the height limitation to it. If
Council is willing to say 26 feet is fine then two stories fit
within 26 feet. That doesn't change. If the answer is trying to
get to a one-story height because you are letting them encroach
closer to the water, one story at 26 feet doesn't work. One
story needs to be 16 feet and that is the missing piece as far as
what they need for direction.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned why a variance had to be granted
for a two story. City Manager Hooper explained when Planning &
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Zoning heard the variance to give the setback getting closer to
the water they came to an agreement. They agreed to let them get
closer if they voluntarily restricted their house to one story.
The owner did that but when the lot sold to somebody else, they
didn't want a one-story so they asked to come back and be
relieved of that Planning & Zoning agreement.
Mayor Schmidt and Councilwoman Rhodes didn't like the idea of
getting closer to the water. Councilwoman Rhodes would like to
know who made that decision and why. City Manager Hooper
elaborated on her concern by referring to the restriction the
City put on back in 1986 that you had to be 30 feet from the
water. Councilwoman Rhodes couldn't think of one case where
someone should be closer than 25 feet to the river.
Councilwoman Lichter feels this is the biggest mess of zoning she
has ever seen. She feels when you own a piece of property you
should not be penalized by being different than the rest of the
City. She sees no problem with letting people go up two stories.
She further spoke of view not being a legal concept. You can not
be guaranteed a view. We have a County ordinance we have to
abide by.
Councilman Brown questioned not being able to change the setback
the County has set legally. City Manager Hooper stated it has
been changed. He further spoke of this applying strictly to
wetlands. He is still trying to find out more about setbacks
from the ordinary high. The wetlands the County Attorney has
told him that it's 25 feet and you can't change the setback
unless there is some pre-existing plat or some vesting that had
already been put in place. The setbacks of at least 25 feet on
Riverside Drive would apply. From a staff perspective, they
could recommend if they adhere to the 25 feet, he doesn't have a
problem of continuing with the 26 feet the way it's done and
allowing as much square footage and building under there, which
increases the tax base. The closer you get to the river the more
he does have a problem with the ability to keep going as high.
Councilwoman Lichter spoke of the mix-up in zoning with regard to
one house having one requirement and next door having another. He
feels they have to be consistent and people need to know what it
is they have. She has no problem with two stories on the river.
He referred to pictures of a home going up on Riverside Drive
that is perched about nine feet and then it starts 26 feet above
the nine feet. That should not have occurred. He further spoke
of two or three applications that are going to be very similar.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if when the people bought the lot if
the setbacks were in existence. City Manager Hooper informed her
they were. She asked if there are other places in Edgewater that
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they make these variance trade-offs. City Manager Hooper stated
there is a little. You have some of it occurring in Florida
Shores. Councilwoman Rhodes asked when the environment counts.
City Manager Hooper stated all the time. Councilwoman Rhodes
stated apparently it doesn't count all the time because we make
trade-offs for the environment.
Councilwoman Lichter stated of the 15 lots that are not occupied
at the moment, are there those that don't meet requirements for
building a normal home. City Manager Hooper stated most of those
lots would be non-conforming lots. There would probably be in
the neighborhood of five units with not much being buildable
after that.
There was a brief discussion regarding setbacks.
Councilman Hammond stated he doesn't think they would be
discussing this if this home was built 20 or 30 feet off of
Riverside itself. City Manager Hooper encouraged the Council to
look at this property. If that is allowed, you are going to have
more people wanting the same thing.
Councilman Brown feels 26 feet sounds like a reasonable height
for a two-story home. As long as a house will fit on it and meet
the setback requirements, he can't see that they should be
restricted to a one-story house. It doesn't make sense to put a
$200,000 one-story house on a half million dollar piece of
property. He feels they should leave the height at 26 feet.
City Manager Hooper stated on the west side he doesn't think
there are three or four that he has heard from but he isn't
certain they live on the west side. It hasn't been one side
against the other.
City Manager Hooper asked if it is a clear consensus that they
want them to leave the 26 feet, define better terms for the
setbacks, County minimum standards and define what those are and
put those in the Code. Mayor Schmidt stated he thinks that is
the consensus and he thinks as far as the setback from the river,
they need to try and have as strong a language as they can for
Planning & Zoning.
City Manager Hooper spoke of DEP and other state agencies that
were out there and permitted it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated that isn't the only one along
Riverside Drive. What is done is done but she thinks in moving
forward what they need to do is hold a hard line on that issue,
which she feels is in the best interest of the City as well as
the river.
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city Manager Hooper stated they will work on the 26 feet, they
will work on the setback language and strengthen that and that
will be in the first public hearing which will be held March
17th.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Schmidt took a
recess before the regular meeting.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer