09-20-1983 - Special
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 20,1983
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting of Council to order at 9:00 A.M. in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Earl Baugh
Present
Present
Present
The first item was the VanzinjHall Property on West Park Avenue. Councilman Asting
noted that he understood the units were to be built for rentals and he had heard they
w€.!re being sold as individual units.
City Attorney Alvarez said the first item to consider was the operation of the restaurant
and if the conditi ons agreed upon to allow a 1 i cense to be issued had been met. He sa i d
after reviewing the conditions and Fred Vanzin's compliance with the conditions then
Council should decide on the issuance of the license.. He said the actual structure is
a separate issue, the approvals received and the different uses which this structure has
been put to, whether for rental or sales, and if it complies with the building code
requirements and fire code requirements. He noted the owner was to use the parking of
six of the units in the building and had agreed not to sell or rent those six units
until this matter was resolved. He said he had asked that the Building Official make
the inspection to determine if the requirements were met and the Building Official had
replied in a memo. He noted some of the conditions were installation of a guard rail to
prevent an unsuspecting driver from going over, removal of a parking stall on the east
side of the building to provide vehicles a turn around area, the completion of the
parking lot connected to it, the erection of a bridge, and covering of the trash dump.
Mr. Frank Hall said he sells the units condo style or zero lot lines and didn't think
there was any regulation that said he couldn't. He said the fire walls were approved
by Charlie Murphy. Councilman Asting asked if they met the Standard Building Code and
Mr. Hall said yes. Councilman Asting asked Mr. Ray Bradshaw, Building Official, if
the fire walls in the Frank Hall structure on Park Avenue met the Standard Building
Code. ,Mr. Bradshaw said he was never in the building except the restaurant. Council-
man Asting asked him if he had looked at the firewalls in the restaurant and Mr. Bradshaw
said that was Mr. Murphy's job and he'd never done any inspections on the building.
Councilman Asting stated he felt it was our responsibility now.
Mr. Robert H. Christy, 1916 Evergreen Drive, called a point of information. He asked
Mr. Bradshaw if this was zero lot lines. Mr. Bradshaw said he knew nothing about the
building as he never even saw the plans. Mr. Christy said if it's zero lot lines, it's
illegal. He asked how it was presented to the board, as a rental or a selling unit.
Councilwoman Bennington asked City Clerk Kinsey to read the memo from Mr. Bradshaw in
response to their request to check for the requirements. City Clerk Kinsey read the
September 2nd memo from Mr. Bradshaw.
City Attorney Alvarez said the seven items of compliance were not connected to zero
lot line or condo concept or minor subdivisions. They require the use of normal senses
to look and observe. He read the list of requirements to be met. He said from his
personal observation he could see the chain link fence was installed and the parking
on the east side, and that the garbage dump had been shielded.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that Mr. Bradshaw said he hadn't seen the plans but
with the memo he received from the City Clerk he should have looked at the plans before
inspecting.
Mr. Robert H. Christy asked if there were two subjects here and Councilwoman Bennington
and Councilman Wargo agreed there was.
Mayor Ledbetter noted that on the east end of the building he could see the turn around
was needed.
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Councilwoman Bennington said she'd suggested the parking in the back be angled and she
didn't think that had been done. Mayor Ledbetter stated it could be a problem if the
cars were parked north and south.
Mr. Robert Christy asked if he could be notified when the other matter was discussed.
Councilman Asting said he wanted a member of the Fire Department or the Building Official
to go out and inspect the building to make sure the fire walls met the Standard Code
for individual units, as in the past held seen a lot of people not paying attention to
building in the City. Mayor Ledbetter asked if the State Fire Marshall should be
called in and Councilman Asting said if we don't have a qualified fire person.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that this agreement shows that Council vias trying to get
a handle on these things, and as long as the City Attorney says they have complied
with the requirements, she didn't see how they could not release it. Councilman Asting
said he had no objections to issuing a permanent license if they've been complied with.
City Attorney Alvarez said his statements were based on his personal observations and
it is not in his realm of responsibility or authority to determine compliance with these
items. He asked Mr. Fred Vanzin to come forward and answer some questions. He asked
Mr. Vanzin if the chain link fence had been installed and Mr. Vanzin said thatit was.
He asked Mr. Vanzin if the parking stalls along the east side had been removed and Mr.
Vanzin said that was the west side and they had been removed. He asked Mr. Vanzin if
the garbage dump was surrounded by a shield and Mr. Vanzin said yes. He asked Mr. Vanzin
if the adjacent parking lot was operational and Mr. Vanzin said yes, and it's connected
to the other parking lot. He,asked if you can walk on the bridge and Mr. Vanzin said yes.
City Attorney Alvarez said the only remaining item would be the angled parking and the
possibility of a fire hydrant.
Councilman Wargo expressed his disappointment that two men who served on the Building
Code Goard would put the City in such a situation.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that Mr. Vanzin brought in plans to remodel and Charlie
Murphy gave him a permit and the Code states it has to come to Council for a restaurant.
She asked Mr. Hall if he would change the angle of the parking and Mr. Hall agreed to that.
Mayor Ledbetter asked City Attorney Alvarez if he was satisfied the items had been met
as far as Mr. Vanzin was concerned and the operation of the restaurant. City Attorney
Alvarez said it seems to have been complied with.
Councilwoman Bennington said that based on the Attorney's recommendation and from what
she has seen, if Mr. Hall will change the angles of the parking, she moved that they
release Mr. Vanzin from this agreement and grant him the license. Councilman Wargo
supported the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting moved that a qualified person from our Fire Department or the State
Fire Marshall make an inspection of the Frank Hall structure on West Park Avenue to
see that the firewalls meet the Standard Building Code. Councilman Spencer seconded
the motion. Councilman Asting added the reason for this is the structures were being
sold as individual units.
Mr. Robert H. Christy asked that the report be brought back to Council and Mayor
Ledbetter said it would be.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Buil~in~ Official -.Mayor Ledbetter noted that on September 7, 1983, the Resolution
conflrmlng the ~ppolntment ?f Ray Bradshaw as Building Official, #83-R-67, was not
adopted: Councllwoman Bennlngton said she felt this was self-explanatory and Council-
men Astlng and Wargo agreed. Councilman Spencer said the resolution was to confirm
their previous vote to hire him on a permanent basis, and he was concerned that since
they have.sat as a Co~ncil they had gotten rid of a number of people in City govern-
ment and,lt was done ln such a manner that they didn't give the individual an adequate
opportunltY,to resp?nd to pr?blems or charges. He suggested Council give Mr. Bradshaw
an opportunlty to dlSCUSS thlS with them.
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September 20, 1983
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Building Official (continued)-
Councilman Asting noted that recently a petition was submitted to Council, signed by a
number of builders and developers, expressing their confidence in Ray Bradshaw and prior
to that there were complaints from them about him.
Councilwoman Bennington said that she had numerous complaints from builders and then
all of a sudden they received this petition supporting him. She said at the Special
Meeting she made the motion to retain him based on the City Clerk's recommendation.
She commented on sections of the minutes in which Ray Bradshaw contradicted himself
regarding teaching the codes to builders. She said Mr. Bradshaw had issued a permit
for a duplex in B-3 that should have come before the Board of Adjustment for a Special
Exception. She asked Mr. Bradshaw if he checked to see this met with the Code, and
asked how he issued a permit when it states in the Code it should come before the
Board of Adjustment.
Mr. Ray Bradshaw came forward and said the story behind that is that the permits are
for Blandy's building and it was issued to remodel long before he came and it had
expired. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd received a complaint on it and had pulled
the folder and it said it was for an efficiency apartment. Mr. Bradshaw said this was
for remodeling of an efficiency apartment and that was why he wrote another permit.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if he wrote it without its being checked and Mr. Bradhsaw
said the final had not been issued.
Councilman Asting asked if the person was in the audience who is doing the remodeling
and Mr. William Blandy came forward.
Mr. William Blandy, owner of the duplex on Edgewater Drive, said he was issued a permit
on the basis that apartments are a permitted use in a B-3 zone and it's only in the
front hal of the building and not a triplex. Councilman Asting asked if there would
be three families in that dwelling. Councilwoman Bennington said in B-3 duplexes or
multi-family are Special Exceptions. Mr. Blandy said the walls were in when he bought
it and he had been making some improvements and had been granted a permit twice and it
had been rescinded. Councilwoman Bennington said it1s not their fault but the Building
Official did not follow the proper procedure in issuing the permit and he should have
been told to go before the Board of Adjustment. Mr. Blandy said he should have been
told this two years ago and this Council was responsible. Councilwoman Bennington
questioned why this wasn't brought up two years ago. Mr. Blandy said this was selective
enforcement and breach of contract which is against the law.
City Attorney Alvarez asked Mr. Blandy if the permit was revoked and Mr. Blandy said
it was revoked by Mr. Bradshaw yesterday (September 19th) by telephone. . Mr. Blandy
said the first permit was issued by Charlie Murphy and the renewal by Ray Bradshaw.
Councilwoman Bennington asked why it was stopped by Mr. Bradshaw and Mr. Blandy said
he was told it was issued in error and it had to come to the Planning Commission.
Mr. Bradshaw said he got her message that it was to be rescinded and Councilwoman
Bennington said she didn1t tell the City Clerk to rescind it. City Clerk Kinsey
said she told Mr. Bradshaw to research it and see what needed to be done. Council-
woman Bennington noted that twice held issued permits in .violation, and that
was grounds to terminate his services.
Councilman Asting asked Mr. Bradshaw if he had advised Mr. Blandy what the next step
would be to get the construction qoing. Mr. Bradshaw said he called to advise him
there was a question on the permit and that apparently it would have to go before
the board. Councilman Asting said if he's converting a duplex to a multi-family it
would require a Special Exception. Mr. Bradshaw said he wasn't aware that this was
changing to an added unit but was aware that it was a renewal of an existing permit~
and only one room was open at his first inspection. Councilman Asting asked him if
hewasn't curious about what type of construction was being done under the first
permit and Mr. Bradshaw said he didn't think it was something he had jurisdiction
over since it had already been issued and was substantially complete. Councilman
Asting advised him he did have jurisdiction as the Building Official and apparently
a multi-family was being constructed which required action by the Board of Adjustment
or the Planning Commission. Mr. Bradshaw said it took it at face value and didn't
question it.
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Special Council Meeting Minutes
September 20, 1983
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Building Official (continued)-
Councilwoman Bennington advised Mr. Bradshaw they had problems in the past with loose
ends and now he's telling them he did it because it was done before.
Mr. Bradshaw said held told them at his interview that it would take three people full
time to set up a proper Building Department in this town.
Councilwoman Bennington said part of the problem and most of the complaints she's
received from builders was that he won't stop talking.
Mr. Bradshaw said he didn't think that was a problem and that most builders do not
know the Code but a plumber knows the Codes and framing contracto~and electricians
know the Codes. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he was saying that the area builders do not
know the Code and Mr. Bradshaw said the builders all around the country don't know the
codes. Mr. Bradshaw said Frank Hall knows the plumbing code but he doubted if he knew
the Building Code in general, and J. C. Carder will probably say he doesn't know the
Code. Councilwoman Bennington asked how they get a license and M~. Bradshaw said it's
an academic test and has very little to do with building.
Councilman Spencer said he thought there was an inference that something had happened
to change their views when the petition was presented from the builders. Councilman
Asting said he was just curious but didn't mean it as an inference. Councilman Spencer
asked if some that signed could speak to Council.
Mr. Frank Hall, New Smyrna Beach, said he had no problems getting inspections from Mr.
Bradshaw but he didn't get any permits. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Hall what
the builders thought about not knowing the Codes. Mr. Hall said he knows about the
plumbing business. Councilwoman Bennington asked how he'd go about building something
and Mr. Hall said he has someone build for him. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he
was assuming his builder knows the Codes and Mr. Hall said he should know them.
City Attorney Alvarez asked Mr. Hall about an opinion from Mr. Bradshaw that his
building would constitute a subdivision and this division of land is more than three
parcels so would not qualify as a minor subdivision, and asked his opinion on this.
Mr. Hall said he knew nothing about it. City Attorney Alvarez suggested since they
will have to deal with this issue they need to discuss it some time. Mr. Hall said
he had a discussion with Mr. Bradshaw regarding those items on the agreement and Mr.
Bradshaw said he couldn't determine what the Council wants on the inspection.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Edwin Hall to speak to Council. Mr. Ed Hall,
Edgewater builder, said when Mr. Bradshaw first arrived here they'd had several dis-
cussions and had heard numerous complaints from other builders. Councilman Asting
asked him if he is a licensed contractor and Mr. Hall said he is a licensed general
contractor. Councilman Asting asked him if he knew the Building Codes and Mr. Hall
said not as well as Mr. Bradshaw but he gets by. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr.
Hall if he'd knowingly hire someone to do his sub work if they didn't know the Code
and Mr. Hall said he didn't think so. Mayor Ledbetter asked Mr. Hall if when he took
the examination for the general contractor's license he knew the Building Code in
the State of Florida as that is a requirement and Mr. Hall said yes. Mayor Ledbetter
stated that nobody IS going to tell him that the contractor doesn't know the Building
Code. Mr. Hall said he carries his book in the back of his car and the builders and
contractors in general know the Code and they have to, and that the subs would know
the Code because they do the same thing all the time. He said it was inferred they
were getting something for nothing for signing the petition. Mr. Hall said he wasn't
going out of his way to hurt or hinder anyone and .felt Mr. Bradshaw Did a good job.
He suggested those that have the complaint coming before Council.
Councilwoman Bennington said she was aware that any time there's a change they have
to adjust to the new system and there's a certain amount of friction. She said there's
a letter from a Mr. and Mrs. Stevens that supported Mr. Bradshaw. She said that he
spent time teaching them the Code and he wasn't hired to teach the Code but to enforce
the Code. Councilman Spencer noted that he looked at the letter differently and the
people needed guidelines and the Building Official rendered that assistance. Council-
woman Bennington said they have contractors to build the homes and they should pay for
the advice if theylre going to build their own home.
Mr. William Blandy, 1705 Edgewater Drive, said he felt Mr. Bradshaw was competent and
well within his job to perform a function of assistance to a home builder as he has
always relied on a Building Official to tell him what to do. He said he felt this
was a tradition in the do-it-yourself industry. He asked if his permit was rescinded
or if he can finish the work.
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September 20, 1983
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Building Official (continued)-
Councilwoman Bennington said he should ask Mr. Bradhsaw. Mr. Blandy said he came to
Council to appeal the rescinding and asked if he could continue the building.
Councilman Asting noted there was a violation of the Zoning ordinance and he should
go before the Board of Adjustment for a Special Exception. Mr. Blandy asked if all
building permits would be rescinded. Councilman Asting said Mr. Blandy should comply
with the laws and asked if he knew of any other cases. Mr. Blandy said no but he paid
twice to get his permit and this was a contract. Councilman Wargo asked if held
rather have legal action taken against him for going against the Codes for building a
triplex. Mr. Blandy said it would probably come to that. City Attorney Alvarez
asked Mr. Blandy what building permit was rescinded and Mr. Blandy said it was the second
one but it was the same application and he paid the same fees. City Attorney Alvarez
asked him who issued the second permit and Mr. Blandy said it was issued by Mr. Bradshaw.
City Attorney Alvarez said if he was mislead to his detriment, he had the right to
continue, and this was a separate issue.
Councilwoman Bennington said as far as she's concerned, Mr. Bradshaw is argumentative,
evasive and will not face his responsibilities and she doesn't care to have a Building
Official who will not follow through with the wishes of the Council.
Councilman Spencer said that quotations had been given regarding a previous meeting with
the Building Official and at the August 11th meeting Mr. Bradshaw gave them a check list
of things to be provided to obtain a building permit plus the additional items he was
inspecting which were to protect the homeowners. He said there was a 3 to 1 vote at
that meeting to retain Mr. Bradshaw and he also was aware there were some errors but
every City official makes errors. He said Terry Wadsworth gets complaints about water
and Earl Copeland gets complaints about drainage when we have heavy rains. He said he
thought perhaps Council had not given full direction to Mr. Bradshaw and if they elect
to terminate his services they must do something else to provide the service in the
City and asked what other Council members felt should be done, advertise or what.
Councilman Asting said the Building Official occupies a very sensitive and important
position and they have to rely on him to be fully cognizant of the Building Code and
he has to be the expert for the Council.
Councilman Spencer proposed that the City advertise for a Building Official position and
interview applicants and make a selection if the outcome was termination.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that as Council had authorized at an earlier meeting, she
had contacted Mr. Lorin Coppock who had said he would be happy to help during an interim
period if required and she felt he was fully qualified if they decide to do that and
there were other qualified people also.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to terminate Ray Bradshawls services at the end of this
pay period, which is Thursday. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED
4-1. Councilman Spencer voted NO.
Councilman Spencer said since this action vias official, he moved that the Council adver-
tise for a Building Official and interview applicants. Mayor Ledbetter clarified that
would be to instruct the City Clerk to advertise. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting moved that the City Clerk contact Mr. Lorin Coppock and find out if
he will take the Building Official IS position on a temporary basis until they find a
permanent one. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Civil Defense - Councilman Spencer asked why this item was on the agenda and Mayor
Ledbetter said it was because of the discussion at the budget hearing and the complaint
from the audience regarding the paid position of the Civil Defense Director which had
not been paid in the past. Councilman Spencer noted this position had been paid in
the past couple of years and Council had substantially cut the budget that was originally
submitted and agreed to include this in the budget. Councilman Asting said he had always
been opposed to this salary. Mayor Ledbetter said he felt this was a created position
and it shouldn't be paid when other board members work free gratis. Councilman Wargo
said if they're going to start cutting the budget they should go over all of them as
he didnlt agree with all of the others either. He said he felt the Civil Defense
Director is a very important position and he didn't think anyone should be asked to do
something for nothing, and what happened in the past is ancient history.
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September 20, 1983
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Civil Defense (continued)-
Councilman Asting said he agreed it's an important position and felt the Police Chief
should be the Civil Defense Director as in the event of emergencies, he would be
directing the forces that are concerned with control during the emergency.
Mr. Robert H. Christy, 1916 Evergeen Drive, agreed it's a very important job and
said he was the director from 1974 to 1981 when he was taken from the job at Jake
Lodico's insistence. He said County Directors are paid but not City Directors and
if the man wants the job he should do it for nothing. He said he wasn't paid when
he was the director because he had concern for his City, and every board member should
be paid if this position is paid. He said he still has not had his hearing.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that Civil Defense is a department and not a board.
City Clerk Kinsey said under the General Fund budget it's a regular department. Council-
woman Bennington said Mr. Christy's concern was very admirable but the money has
been allotted and she didn't see why they would arbitrarily change it and tell the man
he has to work for nothing. She felt the $150. a month was barely enough to cover
gas and expenses for the meetings he attends.
Mr. Robert H. Christy called a point of information and said the position was not
budgeted when he was given the position and that was no reason to continue to pay him.
Mr. Frank Opal, Florida Shores, said he brought up Civil Defense long ago when he dis-
covered the man was being paid the $100. a month andwas also working for the County or
State. He said under the new budget he's being rewarded with an increase of $50. and
shouldn1t even be paid. and he was opposed to any budget for Civil Defense.
Councilwoman Bennington stated that in the 1982-83 budget that Council gave the Civil
Defense Director the $50. a month increase and this Council is keeping it status quo.
Mayor Ledbetter noted there was no money appropriated when the position was created.
Mr. Walter Gross asked how they handled Civil Defense in other cities in Volusia County
and asked if Lee Barnett was paid in New Smyrna Beach.
Mr. Robert Christy said his salary is paid partially by the Civil Defense and partially
by the airport.
Councilwoman Bennington said appointing the Police Chief as the Civil Defense Director
was a good point and asked if the idea would be to pay him the $150. or give him the
added responsibility with no additional compensation.
Councilman Asting said he didn't think there was that much time involved. Councilwoman
Bennington suggested a meeting with the Civil Defense Director to see how much time was
involved. Councilman Asting said the present Directon/as employed by the State and:if
an emergency should occur and he was on duty at his job they would have to send for him
and with the Police Chief he would be available twenty.four hours a day.
Councilman Wargo moved this be TABLED for a meeting or workshop to work it out. Council-
woman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to adjourn the meeting. Councilman Asting seconded the
motion. Meeting was adjourned at 10:40 A.M.
Mi nutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
CJ:k~r XU.. ~
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Special Council Meeting Minutes
September 20, 1983