08-11-1983 - Special
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
AUGUST 11, 1983
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting to order at 10:00 A.M. in the Community
Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Councilman Jack Spencer
Present
Present
Present
Excused
Present
City Attorney Josel Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Earl Baugh
Excused
Present
Present
Mayor Ledbetter stated the first item on the agenda was to take action on the status of
the Building Official, whose probationary status ends August 12, 1983.
Mr. Ray Bradshaw, Building Official, was present and joined Council at the conference
table at this time.
Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Bradshaw how he sized up the position and his ability to
handle the job in the future. Mr. Bradshaw stated that it was what he had anticipated
and reminded Council that during his interview he had said in a town this size it would
take three people to have a proper Building Department. Councilman Spencer noted that
the City had changed the office arrangement to give him some secretarial help and he
suggested letting it operate as is for about three months and then look at it again at
the end of that time.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Bradshaw if he had seen any difference since the office
had been re-arranged, and Mr. Bradshaw said he favored the changes made and putting the
Building, Planning and Zoning together is a step in the right direction since they are
closely related. He said the girls are typing memos and taking telephone calls.
Councilman Spencer said that the adverse criticism hels heard is that Mr. Bradshaw some-
times talks too much and Mr. Bradshaw asked him if he was referring to in the office or
in the field. Councilman Spencer said it1s in conversations with people. Mr. Bradshaw
stated that when he goes in the field that is an area that has not had a proper Building
Department and for a person to be effective in a town this size he has to teach the codes.
He said the builders do not assume a role of knowing the codes, they just do what they're
told. He referred to the plumbing code and requirements.
Councilman Wargo said there has been a situation where there was nothing before and now
there is a resistance to it but the criticism is not always justified. Councilman Wargo
asked Mr. Bradshaw if he had referred to additional need in the building inspection area,
the secretarial area, or the code enforcement to take up the gap. Mr. Bradshaw said
after held been here a few weeks he knew the biggest problem would be in the office and
his first choice would be a girl to take over the office to cover it all day.
Councilwoman Bennington asked what major changes he had made in the department. Mr. Bradshaw
distributed a copy of the check list he's been using and listed common faults in plumbing,
electric service, arrestors, service entrances, etc. Mayor Ledbetter asked if the arrestors
are being installed at the weather head or the breaker boxes and Mr. Bradshaw said the
best place would be before the meter to save the meter. Mr. Bradshaw stated that very
few builders were meeting the attic ventilation requirements in the code and said he also
had four pre-fab fireplaces that were not sealed off in the attic. He said the code for
the past six years has required a ground fault interruptor in all temporary service poles
and they were putting them in the houses but not on the temporary poles and he insisted they
do this because of the legal position it put the City in. He said one of the common problems
in the field is that they over-fuse the air conditioner compressors but he's seen improve-
ments. He reviewed some of the things he had found that were slowly being done such as
hurricane plates, the shower green boards, and windows or doors on gable ends with no
flashings. Councilman Spencer noted that the items Mr. Bradshaw spoke on were protecting
the homeowners and adding to the value of the homes and he was glad to see some tightening up.
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Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Bradshaw to review step by step the process when someone
comes in to get a permit. Mr. Bradshaw said the first thing they do is fill out an appli-
cation and they must have two sets of prints, one to be initialed and dated and returned
with the permit, and the other stays with the permanent records. He said they must have a
plot plan, and said itls hard to get all the information needed and he has to call a lot
of times, which delays the permit. Councilwoman Bennington asked Mr. Bradshaw what he
requires on the drawings and he said the plot plan has to show him where the building is
on the lot so he can clear it for zoning. He said the first thing he does is give it an
address and check the zoning to see that they meet the setbacks. He said if it's other
than a one or two family dwelling he doesn't act on it until he gets a letter from Planning.
He said when he looks at a plan the only thing he's trying to arrive at is value. Council-
woman Bennington asked if the only thing he uses the two sets of plans for is square footage
to determine the value of the property and Mr. Bradshaw replied basically. Councilwoman
Bennington said with a set of plans to build by you need electrical, plumbing, and air
conditioning. Mr. Bradshaw said it's not customary to demand all that on a typical one
and two family dwelling and each sub knows the codes and you turn it down in the field.
Councilman Spencer asked if he was requesting a plan that has plumbing and electrical and
Mr. Bradshaw said he's never asked for it in all his years and with a large project or
structure you have a licensed engineer or architect,for the purpose of bidding all those
details have to be there. Councilwoman Bennington stated she was not concerned with
commercial, only residential and asked about the energy code calculation. Mr. Bradshaw
said the diagram is not detailed enough. Councilwoman Bennington noted that New Smyrna Beach
requires a full set of plans for a single family residence. Mr. Bradshaw said welre in the
area of discretion and he doesn't need the diagrams and he sees no problem if the man plumbs
differently from the plans as long as it meets the code. He noted that larger departments
hire a plans inspector as a separate job and customarily they charge one half a permit fee
for this.
Councilwoman Bennington said she's concerned about time frames and asked if someone meets
all the requirements for a permit, how long is it from the time they turn all this information
in until the permit is issued. Mr. Bradshaw said he changed the system from cards to a
number entered in the book and keeps books on permit numbers and makes the system work
with Susan Wadsworth's method. Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Bradshaw the reasonable time
for a permit and Mr. Bradshaw said sometimes it's the same day and sometimes it's a week.
Councilwoman Bennington asked what the average was and Mr. Bradshaw said two to three days.
Mayor Ledbetter asked what the hangups were when it took two weeks to get the permits as
he has received calls on these and people are losing money waiting for the permits. Mr.
Bradshaw said the large amount of backlog was about a month to six weeks ago and asked
Mayor Ledbetter to be specific. Mayor Ledbetter said Charlie Wheaton called him and when
he came to City Hall to check on this he had one processed and the second one was being
processed. Mr. Bradshaw said he couldn't pull anyone job from memory. Mayor Ledbetter
said held stopped at the shopping center on West Park Avenue and the young man building
the bridge there asked him if he could do anything to help get his permit issued because
held been waiting two weeks for it. Mr. Bradshaw asked what it was in the shopping center
and Mayor Ledbetter said he was building the bridge from the parking lot over to the
restaurant. Mr. Bradshaw said he couldn't remember that specific incident but in many
cases they didn't give him enough information to write the permit and a lot of times the
holdup was with them. He said one of the biggest holdups is a part of the procedure used
and he doesn't understand why it's done. He said once he turns it over to the girls they
make a slip and it goes to Public Works and the Water Department and they can't pull the
permit until that comes back and a lot of times that's the delay. Councilwoman Bennington
said she'd checked on that and without exception the Water Department is back within the
same day but Public Works sometimes takes a day, but that's the maximum. Mr. Bradshaw
said there's a project from Stuckey right now and the big permit has been here 10 days and
he hadn't heard a word from them and their application had been incomplete. He said he
finally reached them by telephone yesterday to review the project.
Councilwoman Bennington asked why Shangri-La had some duplexes with one building permit
and some with two permits. Mr. Bradshaw said it's a process of training the builders without
being hard to get along with, and he established the rule, discretionarily and adminis-
tratively, that if it's one o\~nership he issues a permit per piece of property and if it's
two owners and two lots with a common wall he treats them as separate homes. Councilwoman
Bennington asked Mr. Bradshaw his definition of a duplex and Mr. Bradshaw said it would
.depend on what law you're reading. Councilwoman Bennington said she's referring to our
ordinance that applies to our City and Mr. Bradshaw said the Building Code is one of the
ordinances also. Mayor Ledbetter asked about duplexes with zero lot lines and how the
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August 11, 1983
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houses were split up with a walkway between and no common roof as he understood a duplex
was with one common roof with zero lot lines. Mr. Bradshaw said he's talking about R-4
zoning which is pretty broad and would not have to be a duplex in that zoning. He said the
last ones that came in were called garden homes. He said if the City wants to change that
he wants an order on how itls to be done.
Councilwoman Bennington said she was under the impression that the subdivision was approved
as duplexes, multi-family. Mr. Bradshaw said he didn't know as he wasn't here then, and
some of the legal questions should go to the Attorney.
Councilwoman Bennington said zero lot lines is what they're talking about. Mr. Bradshaw
said in Shangri-La they had a legal opinion and the City's Attorney decided from the way
it's written that the setback did not apply and the problem is with the ordinances and
they should be amended. He said the system he's usin9 was approved long before he came
and nobody has told him to change it. Councilwoman Bennington noted that he's changing
things in the field when he sees it's needed and his list he submitted indicated these
changes and now he's saying that nobody will tell him to change things he sees are wrong.
Mr. Bradshaw said the first changes are purely administrative Building Official decisions
and the others are legal opinions. There was a discussion about making interpretations
administratively and legally.
Councilman Wargo stated that in his personal opinion a lot of builders have done what they
want for some time and he thinks Mr. Bradshaw is trying to change things but any kind of
change meets with resistance. He said he felt as City officials they should address them-
selves to some of the problems, get rules laid down and start enforcing them. He said
Council needs to review the codes and find out the inequities and go from there. He referred
to recreational vehicles in the front yards and fences as two that need to be addressed.
Councilwoman Bennington asked City Clerk Connie Kinsey about her recommendation regarding
the probation of the Building Official. City Clerk Kinsey said she has worked a lot
closer with Mr. Bradshaw in many of these areas and she has had few calls in her office
these past t\'JO \'/eeks and her recommendation at this time was that she was very pleased with
his services and she had no problem with it. Councilwoman Bennington stated that based on
the administrator's recommendation, since she had to work with Mr. Bradshaw, she moved
that he be retained. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Councilman Spencer said he
had high regard for Ms. Kinsey's recommendation, but each of them had a responsibility to
form an opinion and he thought Mr. Bradshaw had an excellent knowledge of the field and
the City is fortunate to have him as a City employee. He said itls an improvement over
the previous system and he felt they should ask Mr. Bradshaw to serve as the permanent
Building Official. Councilman Spencer asked to amend the motion as at the time of the
interview with Mr. Bradshaw they had discussed salary with him and conveyed to Mr. Bradshaw
that they would review and reconsider his salary at the end of the probationary period.
He amended the motion to change his salary from the $18,000.00 which was his salary during
the probationary period to $20,000.00 effective August 13, 1983, the first day of the
permanent basis. Councilman Wargo seconded the amendment. Councilman Wargo noted that
he .has talked with Mr. Bradshaw on several occasions and he feels they need some kind of
code enforcement besides the building official. Councilwoman Bennington noted that she
wanted the motion to be based on Ms. Kinsey's opinion and that she agreed with Councilman
Spencer's comments. She said she also agreed that they need code enforcement and she felt
that if Mr. Bradshaw sees a code violation while on inspections it needs to be written up
until provisions can be made for a code enforcement officer or whatever is necessary.
Mayor Ledbetter asked Mr. Bradshaw if there was any truth to the rumor held heard that
Mr. Bradshaw will be going into business with someone else when the man returns from
Europe. Mr. Bradshaw said held never heard of such a thing and has made no plans what-
ever, to stay or go. Mayor Ledbetter said held had calls regarding the two weeks it takes
to get a permit and Mr. Bradshaw's references to what was done in Winter Springs. Mr.
Bradshaw said he felt there was a misunderstanding there and he had written several
ordinances in Winter Springs and had told people how he solved problems before.
Motion on the amendment CARRIED 3-1. Mayor Ledbetter voted NO. The original motion
CARRIED 3-1. Mayor Ledbetter voted NO;
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August 11, 1983
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The second item on the agenda was a request from the Fire Department to attend a fire
seminar in St. Augustine on August 14th. Mayor Ledbetter stated that since there was
no regular Council meeting scheduled before the date of the seminar he agreed to put this
on the agenda for the Special Meeting.
City Clerk Connie Kinsey read the August 5th letter from Assistant Fire Chief Jessie Walls.
Police Chief Earl Baugh stated that he had attended this seminar about two years ago
and it was an excellent program.
Mayor Ledbetter asked if there was enough money in the account for this trip and City
Clerk Kinsey said the entire amount was not available in that line item but would be in
the entire budget. Councilman Spencer noted that the Fire Department's overall budget
was in good shape. There was a discussion as to the amount necessary for expenses and
number of vehicles used.
Councilman Wargo moved to approve the expenditures to go and the expenditures to be $500.00.
Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Councilman Spencer said he thought it was
great that we had eight people in the Volunteer Fire Department to go and learn more at
this seminar. Motion CARRIED 4-0.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to adjourn. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion.
Meeting was adjounred at 11 :22 A.M.
Lura Sue Koser
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Minutes submitted by:
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CITY CLERK
Approved th is /9 ;#.. day of
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