11-10-1983 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP
NOVEMBER 10, 1983
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting to order at 10:45 AM in the Council
Chambers in City Hall..
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter~eresent Councilman Jack Spencer
Councilman Melbourne Wargo Present City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Present City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Councilman Neil Asting Present Police Chief Earl Baugh
Mayor Ledbetter stated that the purpose of the meetingis to interview applicants
Building Official IS position and consider the Police audit proposals.
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
for the
Councilman Spencer moved to recess to a Workshop. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Ledbetter called the Workshop to order. The first applicant to be interviewed was
Mr. Lorin Coppock. Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Coppock if he was familiar with
electrical inspections as well as the other fields and Mr. Coppock said he wasn't an expert
but has enough knowledge to inspect and if there were a complicated system held request
help. Councilman Spencer asked about the uses of copper or aluminum wiring and Mr.
Coppock said you can't run as many or as large a circuit on aluminum. Councilman Spencer
noted that some areas have outlawed the aluminum. Councilman Spencer asked Mr, Coppock
if held reviewed the flood plain ordinance and Mr. Coppock said not in detail but held
worked on it for 2 years in New Smyrna Beach. Mr. Coppock noted that the map of Edgewater
is so vague and doesnlt show the required elevation. Councilman Asting said the City
Engineer should do this, and asked Mr. Coppock how many site inspections he'd done in the
6 or 7 weeks he'd been with the City. Mr. Coppock said the first week was well over 100
and there were about 40 the day before, so he'd say about 500. Councilman Asting asked
him how many time he'd found different phases of construction that didn't meet the Code
and turned the inspection down until corrections were made. Mr. Coppock said it was
25 to 30 approximately, and he noted that held worked with a lot of these people for the
last 9 years and they had a good working relationship. Councilwoman Bennington asked why
they were being turned down and Mr. Coppock said itls primarily structurally which could
cause problems in later years. Counci"man Asting asked if he had any personality conflicts
with contractors in the City and Mr. Coppock said no. Mayor Ledbetter noted that he
hadn't heard any rumors or had any telephone calls on problems.
Councilman Asting asked Mr. Coppock if he found cases where blacktop was broken by heavy
equipment and some drainage swales being filled in. Mr. Coppock said he works closely
with Earl Copeland. Mayor Ledbetter noted that the pavement is sometimes broken when
they clear the lot. City Clerk Kinsey asked if he gives the memo with the Building
Permit application that the contractor is responsible for road damage and Mr. Coppock
said he hadnlt seen it. Councilman Asting noted that when he goes to make an inspection
or any new construction he should be sure that the memo goes to the contractor. Mr.
Coppock said he may want to add to that also.
Councilwoman Bennington asked his opinion of the .department and what it needs to function
smoothly. Mr. Coppock said things are in fairly good shape but they need some help
for inspections because 30 to 40 a day doesnlt leave anyone in the office a good portion
of the day. He said a part time inspector would be a good idea if construction stays
like it is, as he canlt give the inspections the time they should have. Councilwoman
Bennington noted that the demands for inspections and the official's job means the code
enforcement is not being done. Mr. Coppock agreed that the code enforcement gets very
little attention. Councilwoman Bennington asked his feelings if he stays with the City
as a regular employee. Mr. Coppock said if economy goes down there would be a difference
in his salary and would discuss this if Council wants to but he likes the arrangement
the way it is now. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's doing any building other than
his home and Mr. Coppock said no but he had not called for final inspection in Wildwood
and will call a County inspector when he does it and will notify Council when this is.
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Councilman Spencer said that there's an application for a paint and body shop and Mr.
Coppock said he cancelled that the first day he was appointed here. Councilman Asting
asked if he were appointed would he stop all other businesses. Mr. Coppock said he
couldn't do it within the City limits according to State Statutes. Councilwoman
Bennington noted that if he's on contract they can't stop him from going out of the City
limits because they have an Engineer and Attorney who do other business. Councilman
Wargo said he didn't want to get into that with a Building Official, and he said he gets
a lot of complaints about the conditions of the jobs where they don't clean up papers and
debris. He asked Mr. Coppock his recommendations for this situation so they don't infringe
upon neighbor's rights. Mr. Coppock asked if the City hauls off debris and City Clerk
Kinsey said no. Mr. Coppock noted that they usually have to drive to Tomoka Landfill
to clear it up but it could be policed as he does inspections, however he added that a
lot of contractors aren't on the job site every day to know of this condition. Councilman
Wargo asked about temporary toilets as it's a problem in residential areas, plus parking
of cars and keeping the area clean. Councilman Asting noted that the City will haul it
away for a fee and City Clerk Kinsey said there's a problem with too much trash already.
Mayor Ledbetter said he didn't think the City should get involved in hauling construction
debris because it cuts down on the capacity to haul for the people in Edgewater. City
Clerk Kinsey noted that they can't put construction material in the compactors. Councilman
Wargo asked if he'd inspected any solar hot water heaters and Mr. Coppock said he hadn't
seen any in Edgewater. Councilman Wargo noted that there was installed in his neighbor-
hood the previous week.
Councilman Spencer said he had reviewed Mr. Coppock's file in New Smyrna Beach that was
related to his dismissal from there. Mr. Coppock noted that the position is usually
short lived and being there for 9 years speaks very well for him. He said part of the
problem was political, but he had given the Mayor and two former Councilmen as references.
Councilwoman Bennington said she'd talked to Mayor Musson about this and Mayor Ledbetter
said held talked to Mayor Musson and to the City Manager. Councilwoman Bennington said
that Mayor Musson told her he had no problem with Mr. Coppockls work or any complaints
about it and that he felt the hearing was politically motivated. There was a discussion
about the charges that were in the files and the findings of the personnel review board.
Mr. Coppock said his personnel file would reflect 6 years without a sick day and an
accumulation of vacation time when he left there and the charges were amended a week
after he was discharged. Mr. Coppock noted that his yearly evaluations were excellent
and he got merit raises, and there was never a shadow on his honesty or his integrity.
Councilwoman Bennington said she'd talked to some builders in Edgewater and they seemed
to think he was the fairest inspector they'd had. She asked Mr. Coppock if he had someone
in mind to help in inspections. Mr. Coppock said Ed Tobin had been available for an hour
or two each day. Some Council members did not feel that would be a satisfactory arrange-
ment. Mr. Coppock said he had other names in mind Qut were still employed. Council-
woman Bennington said if Council agreed with that, they'd have to be notified who was to
be considered. She asked if held renewed his competency card with the City and Mr.
Coppock said he had. She then asked hi~'about special conditions placed on an appli-
cation by the City that have to be met'before a permit is issued. Mr. Coppock said they
are binding and Councilwoman Bennington said if the City Council imposes a condition
that is contrary to the Building Code. Mr. Coppock said held bring it to their attention.
Mayor Ledbetter commented on the site plans for subdivisions that are changed after the
engineers approve the water and sewer and streets and goes to duplexes. Mr. Coppock said
they may be in violation of 715.04. There was a discussion of the violations that are
occurring in the City.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if it would free him up for code inspections if they hire
a part-time inspector and Mr. Coppock said yes. Councilwoman Bennington said the
Hibiscus mini-warehouses are one problem that has Code violations, and they need a
code enforcement officer to check these things out. She noted that if they put a part-
time inspector on sheld expect him to do the code enforcements. Mr. Coppock said he
took items to the enforcement board in New Smyrna Beach. City Clerk Kinsey noted that
she'd given Mr. Coppock a complaint the day before and Mr. Coppock said he thought he
had the wrong address and he didn't see it. There was a discussion as to just where
the property is located.
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November 10, 1983
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Mr. Joseph Eubank was the second applicant for the Building Official's position.
Councilman Spencer asked his qualifications and why he was interested in the position.
Mr. Eubank said he's been working in construction trade lines for the past 22 years and
he's a state-certified building contractor. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he has a
class C license and Mr. Eubank said yes, it's from the State. She asked him his opinion
of special conditions by the City that they placed on an applicant for a building permit.
Mr. Eubank said he didn't know and held have to have a rule that applied to it. Council-
woman Bennington asked if he would study the Code book and Mr. Eubank said yes.
Mayor Ledbetter asked if he would carry out the conditions that were attached to a request
if someone imposes a special condition upon the builder or developer and Mr. Eubank
said new subdivisions sometimes need special conditions. Councilwoman Bennington asked
to be excused at this time, 11:53 A.M., and left the meeting.
Councilman Wargo asked his education and Mr. Eubank said he took blueprints, drafting, and
general math, and went to special seminars for the State examinations. Councilman Wargo
asked if he served an apprenticeship i~ carpentry or any other area and Mr. Eubank said no,
but he'd done roofing, plumbing, electrical,concrete, heating, etc. Councilman Wargo
asked if he is familiar with different types of installations fOr heating and Mr. Eubank
said yes. Councilman Wargo asked about return air to each room and Mr. Eubank said some-
times you need one and sometimes you don't. Councilman Wargo asked under what circum-
stances you wouldn't want it and Mr. Eubank said when therels a split that's not access-
ible to the main living area.
Councilman Spencer asked if he was familiar with the difference between a Building Official
and Building Inspector. Mr. Eubank said it would be more inside as to qualifying the
permits. Councilman Spencer noted that the Building Official has overall charge of all
inspections in the City, and asked about residential electrical use of aluminum and
copper. Mr. Eubank said aluminum is obsolete except for a range drop. Councilman
Spencer asked if held done plumbing and Mr. Eubank said yes. Councilman Spencer asked
if he felt he could meet the requirements to obtain certification as a Building Official
and Mr. Eubank said he felt he could, and he would relocate in this area if he got the
job. City Clerk Kinsey reviewed the fringe benefits that the City offers its employees.
Councilman Wargo asked his salary range expected and Mr. Eubank said he thought it was
to be $18,000.00. City Clerk Kinsey noted that the prior Building Official had started
at that. Mr. Eubank asked when the position would be available and Councilman Asting
said it would be as soon as possible. City Clerk Kinsey asked if the time was a problem
for him and Mr. Eubank said he had a friend running things for him and he does con-
struction management with private homeowners through his church. Councilman Asting said
one of the conditions of the job would be that he would not be able to engage in any
contractual work and Mr. Eubank said he realized that and he enjoyed his time off with
his family. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn the workshop until 1 :30PM. Councilman Wargo seconded
the motion. Workshop was adjourned at 12:07 PM.
Workshop returned to order at 1 :42PM for interviews for the Building Official IS position.
The scheduled two applicants did not appear for the interviews. Councilman Spencer
suggested they review the last item on the agenda, the consideration of the proposals of
the Police Department audit.
Councilwoman Bennington said she was waiting for two other proposals to come in but hadn't
received them as of that day. Councilman Spencer noted that Melvin Tucker, who is one
of the people who would be involved in the audit, is the Chief of Police in Tallahassee
with 300 employees and a $9,000,000. budget plus he teaches classes. Councilwoman
Bennington said she'd talked with Chief Tucker and he told her he had a lot of vacation
and he schedules his vacation to do this and they're aware that he does it. She noted
that the other man who would assist with the audit is an Attorney, a Mr. White. She
said she asked Chief Tucker how he'd do this and he told her he comes down and they talk
to each officer and the Council and employees and random people and then they meet
~Mith them to tell them their findings. Councilman Wargo asked just what is wanted and
Councilwoman Bennington said she was interested in equipment, administration, training
programs, and basic organization. Mayor Ledbetter noted that leadership, utilization of
employees and job performance are important, and he felt there was a bad morale problem
in the Police Department.
Councilman Asting noted that this is in three phases, one for data collection, analysis
and collation of data collected, and then formulation of recommendations for changes.
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November 10, 1983
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Councilwoman Bennington said she'd told Chief Tucker that they're on a limited budget
and he set the cost at $4,232. She said he asked if they wanted him to do a follow up
to see if the recommendations were implemented and she told him not at this time.
Councilman Spencer said he didn't feel the present City administration had been in
existence very long and Council members are trying to straight~ ott various problems
and they haven't had much time to do that. Mayor Ledbetter noted that they're working
on a handbook that was New Smyrna Beach's handbook from 10 or 12 years ago and it's
obsolete. Councilwoman Bennington said they're not experts in law enforcements and sheld
talked with various Chiefs at the Convention and they told her that unless you're involved
in law enforcement you aren't aware of any violations. There was a discussion about
some of the problems that Council members felt existed in the Police Department.
Mayor Ledbetter asked how they would handle it if the firm sets up certain guidelines
and they arenlt implemented. Councilwoman Bennington said they could go as a Council
and tell them to go by the guidelines and then they'd better do that. Councilman
Asting said there were some good points and it covers a lot of areas.
Councilman Wargo said he felt the communication gap is terrible and City Clerk Kinsey
said she'd gone to a departmental meeting and she felt very good about it but some
of the things hadn't been implemented yet. Councilman Asting said another area is
the use of force and they could possibly furnish guidelines there. Councilwoman
Bennington said when she found out what vicarious liability meant and they have new
officers on the road with no training, it scared her. Councilman Spencer said they
all have had some training and Councilwoman Bennington said 2,000 auxiliary hours is not
necessarily enough, and they should be under the training and supervision of the officers.
Councilman Wargo said he felt there's a problem but he didn't know if spending over
$4,000. is the answer, and if they find out the room is needed for EVER, maybe the $4,000.
could be used for facilities.
Councilwoman Bennington said she was told these people know how to talk to the officers
and how to interpret their answers, and they will look at the needs of the City and
how many men are actually needed. Councilman Wargo said there's never enough men.
Councilman Asting noted it's according to the situation and location of the City involved.
Councilman. Spencer said they don't have the responsibility of a beach area which is
a benefit. Councilwoman Bennington compared the manpower and budget for New Smyrna
Beach to Edgewater. Councilman Wargo said if the group gives them an inspection and
tells them they have the wrong man to head the department, then they'll take the action
that is necessary. Councilman Asting suggested postponing action on this pending the
meeting with the Fire Department that night regarding the space problem and if they have
a solution that night, they could enlarge the Police facilities. Councilwoman Bennington
said the space will help but she didn't think it would solve the problem.
Councilman Asting asked where the money would come from. Mayor Ledbetter said that if
a member of Council wants to ride in a Police car, he has that authority but to pick
up a friend and let him ride, it puts liability on the City. Councilman Wargo said he
took an obligation to uphold the law and no private citizen should be riding and no
one should be excused.
Mayor Ledbetter noted that held been advised to agree on nothing that night unless the
City Attorney looks it over before there is an agreement reached because there are two
things to consider, one is the Edgewater Volunteer Fire Department and the other is the
Edgewater Volunteer Fire Department, Incorporated, and we cannot divert any public funds
into a private corporation.
Councilman Wargo suggested waiting on this to see how some of the other stuff comes
through and maybe that space will help. There was a discussion about some of the items
that were called into the Police Department that were not acted on.
Councilman Wargo asked about EVER going to Oak Hill and if that's our responsibility.
City Clerk Kinsey said it would be under the mutual aid agreement if they request it.
There was a discussion as to when mutual assistance is used for EVER, Fire, and the
Police.
Councilman Wargo moved to recess the Workshop. Councilman Asting seconded the motion.
Meeting recessed at 2:41 PM.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn the Workshop. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
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November 10, 1983
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Mayor Ledbetter called the Special Meeting back to order. He said that due to the
fact that only two of the four applicants had shown up for the interview Council
might want to reconsider some of the other applicants. Councilman Spencer said he
wasn't satisfied with making a decision on the basis of the two applicants.
Councilman Asting said that perhaps they could go through the applications and
select others. City Clerk Kinsey suggested reviewing all those received and holding
a workshop. Councilwoman Bennington suggested the week after Thanksgiving. Councilman
Spencer suggested re-advertising but Councilwoman Bennington said this is the third time
they've advertised for a Building Official.
Councilman Asting moved that they meet in a workshop session on November 29th to
consider choosing applicants from the applications they have and to meet at 1 :00 in
the afternoon. Councilwoman Bennington suggested at that time they determine if
they're going to set it up as a contract or a City employee. Councilman Asting
incorporated that in the motion. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion.
Councilman Spencer said at the workshop session held like the opportunity to bring
up possible re-advertising if they still don't have people they feel would be
qualified for the position. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Consideration of Police Audit Proposals - Councilwoman Bennington said she felt they
needed this and waiting would not solve the problem and she moved that they accept the
proposal and notify Chief Tucker. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Councilman
Spencer said he felt it was premature but he'd consider it at a later time. Mayor
Ledbetter asked where the money is appropriated and City Clerk Kinsey said it's not
appropriated for that purpose, but they could take it out of the regular budget. There
was a discussion about where this amount could come from. Mayor Ledbetter said since
this isn't an appropriated amount they could make it pending the approval of the Attorney
and the auditors. Councilwoman Bennington amended the motion to make it pending legal
and auditing okay of money available. Councilman Asting seconded the amendment.
Amended motion CARRIED 5-0. Original motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn the meeting. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion.
Meeting was adjourned at 3:23 PM.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
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November 10, 1983