11-10-1983 - Special
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING
NOVEMBER 10,1983, 7:00PM
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting to order at 7:17 PM in the Community
Center. There was a delay in starting due to the fact that the sound system had not
been set up. The meeting was called to meet ~lith the members of the Fire Department.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman Jack Spencer
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Earl Baugh
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Mr. Bob Wolfe, President, introduced Mr. Jessie Walls, Mr. Jack Bevel, Mr. Ray Shambora,
and their Attorney, Mr. Michael Brewer, of the-Edgewater Volunteer Fire Department.
Mr. Wolfe said their concern is that Council might want to take a bay from the Fire
Station #2 to put Rescue in. Mayor Ledbetter said he knew the rumor was flowing but
it was only a proposal and nobody was committed to moving Rescue there. He said they
talked about approaching the Fire Department to give a little space like the City did
when the Fire equipment had to be stored in the City barn.
Mr. Jack Bevel said they gave up the Fire Department here to build a Police station and
they needed the storage space because they had to move.
Mayor Ledbetter said they had no intention of doing anything without talking to the Fire
Department. Mr. Wolfe asked if he could read a letter from the Rotary Club which
offered to build a building for Rescue if the City would give a parcel of land for it.
Mr. Reeves, President of Rotary, presented copies of the letter to Council. Mr. Wolfe
said he realized a decision couldn't be made that night.
Councilman Spencer said he felt this was a generous offer from Rotary but he would like
to hear some of the needs of the Fire Department. He noted the amount of money that was
allotted in the budget for the Fire Department, and said the Police Department needs space
and it had been discussed to use the Rescue room because it is next door to the Police
station, but no decision was made. He said he saw an empty bay in the Fire Station when
he was there but it's now filled. He asked Mr. Wolfe if the members of the Fire Depart-
ment would agree that the Council has been responsive to their requests and noted the
various meetings that had been held and consideration of the other matter of a lease.
Mr. Bevel said the Council had cooperated and they appreciated it. Councilman Spencer
noted that they put money in the escrow account for fire equipment. Mr. Bevel said in
10 years they could get another truck, but it was more than any other Council had done
and they appreciated it. He noted that he was chairman of the building committee that
built the building on Mango Tree and the building on U.S. 1 was built by volunteer labor
from the Fire Department and concerned citizens, and the City paid for the materials.
He said they bought the property at a price nobody could have paid for it. He said
the Fire Station #1 has three trucks with three bays and in back of the building is a
carport area and there is a pickup truck. He continued that Fire Station #2 has four
trucks, two of them are brush trucks, and there are four bays. He said there wasn't a
truck in one of the bays before because it was in for maintenance. He noted that every
bay is scheduled for equipment to keep it out of the weather. Mr. Bevel said he sided
with Rescue because he knew their need and the cramped quarters they have, and they can't
do their training in a concrete building with oil on the floor. He said he and other
firemen would help if they build a building for Rescue, and suggested considering some
way to get Rescue their own building.
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Mrs. Frances Olds, President of EVER, said they have basic requirements for floor space
and would need 20 x 30 secured storage, plus bathroom facilities, wash area facilities,
heating and air conditioning, carpeting, and would like a slab out front to wash the
Rescue van. Councilman Spencer asked where equipment is kept now and Mrs. Olds said it's
stacked in the Rescue room and they're the checking out place for some equipment for
Red Cross. She reviewed the different equipment and supplies they have to store.
Councilman Asting asked Mrs. Olds if a construction type trailer could be used for their
needs. Mrs. Olds asked the size as they need a particular width for the classroom situ-
ation and Councilwoman Bennington said they come in all sizes. Councilman Asting noted
that the offer from Rotary is generous but the City should meet this obligation and he
didn't know what parcel of land they could donate. He said he was thinking of a con-
struction trailer. Mrs. Olds said the width would be the determinina factor as the 14
foot wide would be pretty narrow. She asked if there would be air conditioning and heating
and Councilman Asting said yes. Mrs. Olds said she knew there was difficulty in finding
a place and they don't want to encroach on anybody. Mr. Bevel said they could put Rescue
beh i no :No. 2' pa rtdna a rea, with a gate off Joyce Street to come in or IVJango Tree, and he
knew a gentlemean who would design the building for them. He displayed a blueprint of
where he had in mind. Mrs~ Olds said she didn't feel the construction trailer would serve
the needs as they're cramped where they are now.
Mayor Ledbetter asked if they have their proposals. Mr. Wolfe said their Attorney,
Michael Brewer, is changing the Charter around to avoid a problem there and they need to
know if he should draw up a proposal to be put on an agenda. Mayor Ledbetter said he
should prepare the proposal and submit it to the City Clerk and let the Council go over it,
and the City Attorney go over it with Mr. Brewer.
Councilwoman Bennington asked about the two article changes that were requested and Mr.
Wolfe said the two changes were required under the Statutes.
Councilman Spencer said he'd talked to the City Attorney about an appropriate reverter
clause for the City and they need to have a thorough understanding of the Volunteer
Fire Department's financing arrangements and the City's obligation for liability involved
in case the Volunteer Fire Department would default in the future. He said he felt
the Edgewater Volunteer Fire Department is a branch of the City government as it's under
the City's Charter, and the Edgewater Volunteer Fire Department, Inc. is a non-profit
corporation. He stated that the corporation is the one that would undertake the con-
struction of this facility and the City doesn't have any control over that, so Council
needs to be aware of their finances to see if they would be able to undertake such a
venture. Mr. Wolfe asked if he was questioning the amount of money or their ability to
build the building, and he reviewed the various licensed professional people they have
to help with the building. He noted that lending institutions would take in the lease
as part of the secured, plus the building.
Councilman Spencer said the City Attorney needs to be well versed in the new Charter and
the City auditors should perform an audit of their books so the City has full knowledge
of their financial ability to handle such a situation before they make a long term
commitment of City property to the Corporation.
Attorney Michael Brewer said if they can get through all these things then the reverter
clause can be discussed and he could review it with City Attorney Alvarez. He asked if
the Council would be satisfied with the proposal if the Department decided to get a non-
recourse financing. He said there's a possibility the Department could build it with
their own money. He said the control over them may not be of that much concern. Councilman
Spencer said the previous Charter is not satisfactory and control over them is not what
he had meant but if the City is going into a long term lease with an organization, they
should understand about the responsibility of this organization's ability to fulfill
its obligation. Attorney Brewer said he needed some information to prepare a proposal.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that some questions cannot be answered because they did not
get the information. Mr. Wolfe noted that it's about 2t acres for the building and parking
and the entire tract is about 4.44 which includes the Fire Station No.2. Mayor Ledbetter
noted that there's land adjacent to Mango Tree to the north that isn't being used.
-2- Council Special Meeting Minutes - Fire Dept.
November 10, 1983
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Mr. Jessie Walls asked for a five minute recess to look at the plans. There was a recess
at 8:00 P.M. Meeting returned to order at 8:08 PM.
Mr. Wolfe introduced Mr. John Vasquez of the New Smyrna Beach-Edgewater Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Vasquez said they're interested in this very important issue and their main interest
is to work with the businesses of the area, and he felt an agreeable compromise could be
reached.
Attorney Brewer asked Council's thoughts on the length of a lease. He said the Fire Depart-
ment is building a building at a substantial savings. Counci11nan Spencer said the Attorney
advised them to accept a proposal and for him and Mr. Brewer to review it.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that she and Councilman Spencer had met with the Fire repre-
sentatives and.had talked about a time frame and suggested for a proposal it could be
50 years,renewab1e every 25 years. Councilman Spencer said he felt before 99 years was over
the City would have a paid Fire Department and the lease for 99 years didn't seem appropri-
ate. He said he felt the reverter clause that would take place anytime the Corporation
ceased to exist as an entity should be considered. Attorney Brewer said if they lose
their tax exempt status or become a profit company, or if they have to file bankruptcy,
or default on any loans that obligate the City, that they come in and redeem the property,
and basically they disband. Councilman Spencer suggested 25 years, renewable after
that as this will be a facility that will last considerably longer than that, and said
he was concerned with a default or bankruptcy. Attorney Brewer said he would talk with
City Attorney Alvarez about those clauses to protect the City and will then present it
to Council. Mayor Ledbetter said he had no problem with that.
Councilman Asting asked the estimated cost of the building and Mr. Hardock said it would
be about $180,000. to $200,000. but if they do the work it could be as low as $60,000.
to $80,000. with a lot of volunteer help. Mr. Hardock noted that this building is some-
thing they've been looking forward to for 30 years and they wouldn't go to outside paid
help unless they would have to. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the $80,000. figure
would depend on whether they do their own financing or go through a lending institution.
Attorney Brewer said the Fire Department does not have lending credibility and there
would be a clause in there that they could not encumber the property without the
City's approval.
Mr. Bevel said they've been raising money for the building fund and have raised in excess
of $20,000. and they haven1t touched upon the public for support for this. Councilman
Asting asked if the $20,000. would be applied to the cost of construction and Mr. Bevel
said it's in the bank right now. Councilman Asting noted that would leave about $60,000.
to get somewhere, either through contributions or a loan. Mr. Bevel said they could
have dinners and raise money other ways so the public got something for their money.
Councilman Asting asked how long a term would be needed if they go for a loan and Attorney
Brewer said they wouldn't know until they go to the lending institutions. He said they
could encumber the lease and the equipment but not the land.
Councilwoman Bennington said if they went through financing and then disbanded the
mortgage company could come in and take over the building and enter into the lease agree-
ment with the City. Attorney Brewer said the mortgage foreclosure would be at a public
sale and the City would have to right to redeem.
Mayor Ledbetter said he has enough faith in the Fire Department to know they'd offer
the City the opportunity to take over the mortgage if they ran into problems or if
State legislature said they had to disband.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Attorney Brewer to clarify the buyout clause and Attorney
Brewer said it would be at replacement cost of the building at that time. He noted
that they aren't trying to make a profit but there will be some revenue raised from
the building.
-3- Council Special Meeting Minutes- Fire Dept.
November 10, 1983
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Councilman Asting asked about the size of the land that the building is being put on
with the parking space and Attorney Brewer said it's about 3 acres. Councilman Asting
asked the size of the building and Mr. Wolfe said it's about 9,000 square feet for the
building. .
Councilman Asting said he would go for a 99-year lease. Councilman Spencer said the
most important thing is a reverter clause and if they need a long term for financing,
he wasn't opposed to it. Councilman Wargo said he wouldn't commit himself to anything.
Attorney Brewer asked what rent they had in mind and mentioned that it's non-profit.
Councilman Spencer said the Fire Department wants to have full control to schedule and
would be fully responsible for insurance and maintenance and the City's expenses would
be zero if he understood correctly. Mr. WalfA said that's right. Councilman Spencer
said under those circumstances the City shouldn't be making money out of the use of
City land for this purpose and a token amount would be satisfactory, but he hadn't dis-
cussed this with the City Attorney.
Councilwoman Bennington said she'd like something in the agreement that they will maintain
and keep it up in a reasonable condition. Mr. Bevel asked if he could get that same
agreement from the City since they're paying :t>50:0U a month to have it done now.
Attorney Brewer said he would prepare a draft and send copies to Council and to the
City Attorney. Mayor Ledbetter noted that it would save time to review it with the
City Attorney and then bring it to Council.
Mr. Ray Shambora said he'd been here 19 years and they'd been offered some land before
from Magnuson to develop a community project and they lost about 50% of their members
then because of skepticism. He said he knew they can handle this project also even
though Council is skeptical.
Mrs. Frances Olds said she hoped they could get something straightened out and thanked
members of the community, Fire, and Rotary for their support.
Mr. Wolfe thanked Council for their time. Mayor Ledbetter thanked the Fire Department
members for. coming to the meeting.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Meeting
was adjourned at 8:35 PM.
Lura Sue Koser
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Minutes submitted by:
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-CITY CLERK
Approved ~i s~ -6 d day of
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MAYOR
-4- Special Council Meeting Minutes - Fire Dept.
November 10, 1983