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12-06-1983 - Workshop t - o o CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP DECEMBER 6,1983 MINUTES Mayor David Ledbetter called the Workshop to order at 1 :00 PM in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Present Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Jose'Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Police Chief Earl Baugh Present Excused Present Excused >I, Mayor Ledbetter stated the workshop was called to discuss the maintenance of the canals within the City with the Mosquito Control representatives. Representatives present from Mosquito Control were Mr. Paul Hunt, Director, Mr. Jonas Stewart, Assistant Director, and Mr. L. W. Wood, Foreman of the New Smyrna Beach office. Councilman Asting asked Mr. Hunt the number of people in the offices and Mr. Hunt said there were 20 to 25 for the New Smyrna Beach area and about the same number for Daytona Beach. Mr. Earl Copeland, Superintendent of Public Works, said he was concerned with easements, and how to secure them. He said in the past they just took for granted who was to clean which ditches and didn't know if they were violating any ordinances. Mr. Hunt said the position with any City is that they do very little new drainage because it requires environmental permits. He said the County has a stormwater ordinance now that has certain requirements. He said some of these older ditches were built by WPA and their position is that they'll maintain the ditches that nobody will maintain or those that they dug for the purpose of continuing to take surface water off the ground where it will drain. He said they haven't respected City boundaries in the past and the ditches that have priority are those that are where people are living. He said they don't want to dig new ditches but sometimes they have to move a ditch for a development. He noted that they maintain several miles of ditches without easements. Mr. Copeland said he was told by a gentleman who works for Magnuson that they only own U.S. 1 to the railroad tracks. Mayor Ledbetter said some of that property on the 18th Street canal went on a delinquent tax roll and Lomar Corporation picked up the tax certifi- cates. Mr. Dana Armstrong, former Mayor, said there's a warranty deed for Magnuson to the City which covers everything in Florida Shores and includes all the canal running to the river including the extension to the new canal. He said the 18th Street canal was dug on platted property and they had to infringe on half a lot to build a canal on part of it. He said he'd questioned before how they could maintain something they don't own and was told by Mr. Moynahan of Magnuson that they would give them to the City and then there was a lien against the property and the Edgewater City Council refused to pay it since it was before they owned the property. He said these were sold to Lomar Corporation and as far as he knew, they still hold liens. He said the City agreed to maintain it in 1960. Councilman Asting said they need a map showing the canals and ditches that are maintained by Mosquito Control and those the City is responsible for maintaining. Mr. Stewart said some are cooperative maintenance because they can't get to all the parts plus they don't have the easements. Councilman Asting agreed if Mosquito Control cannot go into the areas, the City should step in and try to take care of it. Mayor Ledbetter said there's a problem due to the different size culverts that were put in and were causing obstructions. Councilman Asting reviewed the section on Palmetto behind the old Winn-Dixie. Mr. Armstrong said if the City has a 30 foot right of way they should be able to stabilize it with that amount of easement. He said the Sea Horse Trailer Park has four platted lots that can't be built on because they're in the flood stage and suggested the City use them for a retention pond. . 1 ~ . o o Mayor Ledbetter said they have a blockage between Snyder and Ocean Avenue because of the size of the culverts and in heavy rains the runoff on the North side of the cemetery will run full and flood Pine Bluff back to the cemetery. He said they can't maintain some of that because it has been allowed to be closed at some spots. Councilman Spencer noted that Frank Marshall is starting on a master drainage plan. Councilwoman Bennington said the main concern now is the 18th Street canal as to who maintains and who owns it. There was a discussion as to just where the canal runs and Mr. Hunt said it's the main outlet canal for Florida Shores. He also said that the State has to approve everything they do and when the City took over Florida Shores, it had no means to maintain the canals. Councilman Asting noted that the City still doesn't have the equipment to maintain the canals. Councilwoman Bennington asked who dug the canals and Mr. Wood said Magnuson did until he converted it to the City and they must have maintained it. Mr. Hunt said they were requested by the City after it was annexed if they would assist in maintaint:ngthe canal, buttheydidn't,and don't, intend to assume the canals as a regular maintenance responsibility,since it's the City's responsibility. He noted that they don't have the personnel or equipment to take on the responsibility, and they'd have a problem pinpointing ditches as Mosquito Control's. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they had Mr. Wood said they started after the City and they try to do it about once a year. the canal. Mr. Copeland said he got that been maintaining the 18th Street canal and annexed it and cleaned it with the drag line He said he'd heard that Edgewater doesn't own information from the tax assessor's office. Mr. Armstrong noted that there was no foreclosure made on that property and Lomar just has liens against the property and the City Attorney would have to clarify this. He said east of the railroad tracks, it's in a platted road. Mr. Copeland said his under- standing was that they didn't have a legal easement on it. He said in the past they had a verbal agreement that Mosquito Control would take care of the primary ditches and the City would handle the secondary ones. Mr. Wood said they're building houses and putting fences in and the equipment can't get to the ditches. Councilman Wargo said that possibly the fence ordinance needs changed. Councilman Asting asked when the 18th Street canal was last cleaned and Mr. Copeland said it was about one and one half years ago and Mr. Woodis equipment is down for repairs now. Councilwoman Benhington asked if the 18th Street canal is a primary canal and Mr. Hunt said they maintained Florida Shores once on a one time deal. Councilwoman Bennington asked abo~the east side of U.S.l and Mr. Wood said they go all the way to the river when they clean it. Councilman Asting asked if they could clean it again and Mr. Wood said he doesn't have the authority to answer that. Councilwoman Bennington asked what canals they would clean and Mr. Hunt said he didn't know who dug the canal and it was constructed at the lowest possible point and it has problems and they maintain it as best they can because the street crossings are too high and there are sewer lines across the ditch and pipes that can't be lowered. He said it is definitely an engineering problem. Mr. Hunt suggested they try to carry out the plan to make the canals function by doing something to the crossings by deepening the ditch. He noted they have problems with easements and people not wanting them to work near their property. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they'd let the City know if they run into a problem and Mr. Hunt said it's by word of mouth. Mr. Copeland said he was told and \~ith the cost of equipment and keeping it running, they need to do something. Mr. Hunt stated that somebody needs to correct these crossings and it has to be with good engineering so the water will have a chance to get away. Mr. Copeland noted that more new developments are going into the same ditch. Mayor Ledbetter said they built a pond at the cemetery with earth holding it back and Mr. Wood agreed that was right. Mr. Armstrong said that since they put in the sewer system in 1964 they've had a lot of problems with flooding in his area and his garage had water and there Was two feet of water over the manhole system because it can't get off. He said one of the problems is the railroad crossing pipe and Shangri-La has always had a problem and the new development behind the Ship is a problem. -2- Council Workshop Minutes December 6, 1983 . ,. ~. o o Mayor Ledbetter noted that the ditch behind his trailer park is full whenever it rains. Mr. Hunt noted that if they have periods of high tides and heavy rains then there's no place for the water to go. Mayor Ledbetter said it'll back up into the same ditch past Mockingbird Lane. There was a discussion about the City taking over the three lots at the end of Palmetto and putting a retention pond there. Mr. Armstrong noted that they can't build on that property, and said that there's four inches of water on Oak Ridge and four foot of water on Mockingbird Lane. He stated he .felt drainage is more important than streets in Edgewater, and spoke on the flooding problems in Edgewater Acres years ago when they lowered the pipe. Mr. Copeland asked if they could divert any water back to 18th Street from the cemetery area. Councilwoman Bennington said 18th Street isn't even draining. Mr. Armstrong noted there's a five foot drop from it to the river. Councilman Asting again stated that a map is needed so they can pinpoint problems to see what is to be done. Councilwoman Bennington noted that the Planning Commission had requested overlay mylars for water, sewer and drainage. Mr. Armstrong asked if Mosquito Control had committed themselves to help when they had the manpower and equipment. Mr. Hunt said that was their policy and it will continue to be. Mr. Armstrong said the City shouldn't expect Mosquito Control to do the smaller jobs. Councilman Asting said the City would take care of ditches but when they need a drag line, they don't have one. Mr. Hunt said he thinks that unless they originally dug a ditch in the City, the City shouldn't point to them and say it's their responsibility but if the City needs help, they'll deal with it as best they can but it needs an engineering study and that's the City's problem. He said the City doesn't go on to private property without easements and they can do that but would like to avoid responsibility for big jobs for Florida Shores. He noted that their work has to be justified as to an advantage from the Mosquito Control's standpoint. He said the one between U.S. 1 and the river would be a mosquito problem but he wasn't sure about along the other section. Councilman Asting noted that the City doesn't expect Mosquito Control to do an engineering study. Mr. Hunt said the City can request the help but they can't always do it and they aren't responsible for ditches unless they dug them but they'll help to maintain it where mosquitos are involved. He added thatwhere stor~~ater management is involved, it gets out of their jurisdiction. Councilman Spencer noted that some areas of Florida Shores are wet and he sees mosquitoes. Mayor Ledbetter said that the south end of Florida Shores gets a lot of water coming from the County. Mr. Stewart said the water for drainage purposes is not their job. Mr. Armstrong sroke on the overflow problem in Silver Ridge and there was a discussion of the drainage between Silver Ridge and Pyramid. Mr. Armstrong suggested going from 18th and running a storm drainage north along the railroad up to take the water off the recreational area and school and tie it into the lake area south of Connecticut. Councilwoman Bennington noted that it's up to the City to maintain the 18th Street canal. Mr. Copeland said they take care of secondary ditches in Florida Shores with a backhoe but that's as far as they can reach. Mr. Armstrong said east of the railroad may need some engineering and there's plenty of room for equipment to work if they stabilize it. Councilman Asting asked ~1r. Hunt if they could clean the 18th Street canal. Councilwoman Bennington added that's if they get the legal problems solved as to owns it and noted they don't have the equipment to do it. Mr. Hunt said if it's causing a mosquito problem, they'd have no problem but they'd have to look at it and if it's only a weed control problem, that would be different. Mr. Stewart said held looked at it and that canal is so weeded up now that it will probably be a mosquito problem. Mr. Hunt said they'd need to do it on an individual basis with a request from the City. Councilman Asting said that Frank Marshall could look at this and prepare a map. -3- Council Workshop Minutes December 6, 1983 t .. . . (..) o Councilman Spencer said they're asking them to clean the 18th Street canal because the City doesn1t have the equipment for it. Mr. Wood agreed the canal is a mess. Mr. Copeland said the duck weed in the lake is causing rumors and some people think it1s poison and the fish are dying. Councilman Asting said whenever Mosquito Control works in the City, Mr. Copeland and his force could assist in hauling it away. Mr. Stewart said duck weed is not detrimental to people or animals but it will hold the water back. Councilman Wargo asked what effect copper sulphate has on it and Mr. Stewart said he doesn1t know the restrictions. Councilman Spencer asked if it was a problem with the 18th Street canal. Mr. Armstrong said you'd have to get a DER permit and a net. Mr. Hunt said he could provide a copy of the County roads and has made arrangements with other cities to get the release of the owner when they have to cross private property. He said this is a joint venture and the release would be to the City and Mosquito Control. He said he'd send a copy of the form they use. Councilman Asting asked how long it would be before the equipment could be repaired and Mr. Wood said it's been down for three months and they're still waiting for parts. Mr. Stewart said they'.ll be going to the parts people and a purchase order is being cut but they have a ditch waiting as soon as the drag line is ready. Mr. Stewart said the City should be looking at this for future equipment purchases. Council members assured him they have already discussed this in detail. Councilman Asting said for new construction where easements are required the person who purchases the home should be informed. City Clerk Kinsey said that would come with the master drainage plan. Councilman Asting noted they should prevent people from building on easements. Mr. Stewart noted that the City has a stormwater ordinance and it covers mosquito control problems also. Councilman Asting said he's concerned about the easement areas where they fence it or build something on it and thinks the City should enforce this. Mr. Armstrong said they need an easement restriction of record to be applied with an ordinance with no permitted building on an easement. There was a discussion about the area in Wildwood where the people owned the ditch. Mr. Wood suggested stopping the developers before it's ever developed. Mayor Ledbetter spoke on the property of Jim Richardson where the City has a drainage ditch on twenty-five foot of his property. Mr. Hunt said the master drainage plan will show the problems. Mayor Ledbetter suggested the City Clerk contact Briley, Wild to get something they already paid for. City Clerk Kinsey said that is probably too outdated to be of use. Mr. Copeland asked if there1s an up to date map and City Clerk Kinsey said there's a factual map with streets, but the last subdivision added was Wildwood. Mr. Stewart asked if he could get one with new areas sketched in. City Clerk Kinsey said she'd handle that. Council members thanked Mosquito Control representatives for coming. Councilwoman Bennington moved to adjourn the Workshop. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Workshop was adjourned at 2:30 PM. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser -4- Council Workshop Minutes December 6, 1983