12-14-1983 - Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP-DECEMBER 14,1983
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Workshop to order at 9:30 AM in the Community Center.
He stated the Workshop was called to discuss the Police Department's needs for additional
space.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman Jack Spencer
City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Earl Baugh
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Councilman Spencer stated that Council is aware that the Police Department needs more
space and he wanted to suggest some alternatives for Council to consider. He noted that
they had discussed using the Rescue room andit had proximity to the Police Department.
He said one consideration would be to move EVER to another location and move the Police
Department into that room. He said he realized it would be temporary because five years
from now it still won't be adequate space for the Police. He stated that he had no
objection to accepting help from an organization and Rotary had offered to build the
building if the City provides the land. He noted that the City owns very little land
and the property on Mango Tree isn't appropriate and they've talked with the Fire Depart-
ment about that land. He said the land next to the #1 Fire Station is most appropriate
and is centrally located. He suggested the Council appoint a member to work with the City
Clerk to follow up on the suggestion and make arrangements with the Rotary Club to con-
struct that building for EVER. He noted there's a location offered on a one-year basis
to EVER and it's the vacant house adjacent to the Church on Park Avenue and it would be
rent free.
Mrs. Frances Olds, EVER President, said Mr. Sikes would want an agreement that they
wouldn't use their siren during the Church services. Chief Baugh noted that was on
Sundays and Wednesday nights when they have their meetings at the Church next door.
Mrs. Olds said she was concerned with the parking there also and it's not suitable in
the condition it's in now. Councilman Asting asked the size of the room that EVER uses
now and Mrs. Olds wasn't sure but thought it was about 13 x 22. She noted that the
vacant house has two rooms.
Councilman Asting asked who would own the building if Rotary builds it. Mrs. Olds said
the Rotary asked for a lease type agreement on it because they didn't want Rescue to be
evicted or moved someplace else after they had erected the building for their use. She
said it would be City property as it would have to be maintained and the utilities paid
by the City. Councilman Spencer said it would be similar to the ambulance and the City
provides that. He said the building should belong to the City and the property it's on
also and the City's intention should be that it would be for the use of EVER. Mrs.
Olds said another future Council could decide it would be used for something else.
Councilman Spencer said that's true for any department or office of the City.
Councilman Asting said Rotary should provide the money for construction and deed the
building to the City with no strings attached. Councilman Wargo noted that they want
a 99-year lease. Councilman Spencer stated they also want it to be specifically for
EVER and that could be worked out.
Councilman Wargo stated they can't enter into an agreement with a private organization
as it's against the State law, plus they can't give them the lending powers or any-
thing else. He said it's the City's responsibility and no one else's and they can't
pass it along to a civic group. He noted that this Council has no control over future
Councils. He said they need to do something permanent and he suggested a second floor
on City Hall and combining EVER and the Fire Department as he's seen this in many other
locations. He suggested adding on to one of the fire stations a building large enough
for EVER and added that if EVER is going to work for the City, they'll have to be guided
by the Council. He noted that they need to put another toilet in for the Police Depart-
ment. He said that if they add a second floor on to City Hall they could move Planning
back over there and move the executive offices upstairs. He suggested having some
listening sessions to see if the people want a new City Hall but the cheapest way would
be to add a second floor to the present City Hall.
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Mr. Bill Britain of EVER said in New Smyrna Beach they have leased the property to
an organization on a 99-year lease to the land with the reverter back if it would fold.
Councilman Wargo said that's only if it's beneficial to the general public or affects
the safety or welfare and he didn't think they can plus the attorney told them to look
at it very closely.
Mrs. Olds asked if it's possible to accept a gift for a certain purpose and Councilman
Wargo said yes, if it's a gift with no strings attached. Mayor Ledbetter stated that
it would need a reverter clause. Mrs. Olds said if they accept Rotary's offer to erect
a building on City property to be used by Rescue with a clause that if they combine
with Fire at a future date, that wouldn't be in violation of any Statute. Councilman
Wargo said if they tie themselves up with a lease it would be a problem, and it's the
Council IS responsibility to build a building. Mrs. Olds suggested that Council talk
with the Rotary members.
Councilwoman Bennington said the Police station is what should be built rather than
EVER or a second floor. She said there's land next to the Fire Station, and noted that
there are grants available. Councilman Wargo said he didn't want the departments spread
all around the City. Councilwoman Bennington said the Police Department doesn't have to
be next to City Hall and she felt the Fire Department and Rescue together is a good idea.
She suggested a straw ballot to see if the people want to float a bond.
Mr. Britain said Police, Fire and Rescue would not all fit on the property because they
also need a fenced storage compound. Councilman Spencer noted that's about one acre
there.
Councilwoman Bennington noted the auditors are coming next week for an evaluation and
maybe they can give them a projection of what's needed. Councilman Spencer said they
know they need tbis. Mayor Ledbetter said a projection of the future isn't what they're
looking for, it's the needs of now, and suggested they pick out a place. Councilman
Spencer suggested using the old Winn-Dixie store that's empty and the whole complex
there has good parking and inside space. Mayor Ledbetter said he'd heard that different
organizations are looking at different places and he wondered who authorized these
groups to do this. Councilman Wargo said the Winn-Dixie store is so far north and
everybody is talking about Florida Shores so it's centrally located. He said the only
thing available is 32 acres on Mango Tree.
Mr. Britain asked about the 5 acres for sale on Indian River Boulevard. Councilman
Wargo noted that it belongs to Porter. City Clerk Kinsey said she called on that the
day before and it's $440,000. plus it's low land. Mayor Ledbetter said the drainage
ditch would have to be considered and they'd lose part of the property for that.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that it's commendable of Rotary to offer the building
for Rescue but she didn't see that it would solve the problem if the Police Depart-
ment is in such need. She noted that Daytona Beach Shores has construction trailers
they use for Police facilities. Councilman Wargo said he's concerned with wind storms
where trailers are involved. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they go to Daytona Beach
Shores to see these as they're permanent structures now. Mayor Ledbetter said he's
worked with trailers for 35 years and has seen trailers go through some storms where
permanent homes are damaged and it's just according to where you're located. Council-
woman Bennington said they can pick up construction trailers for about $10,000. and
move the Police station into that right next to the Fire station and then when they get
a grant or float a bond or build a new City Hall, they would have it for the Fire Depart-
ment or Rescue to expand. She said that would open more room for right now.
Mayor Ledbetter stated that the letter from PBA said they need a bathroom but they aren't
running this City and the Council is well aware of the problem. Councilman Asting said
the letter had nothing to do with this meeting and felt it was uncalled for. Mayor
Ledbetter said he felt it was intimidating the Council.
Chief Baugh noted that with the construction trailers they have to keep in mind the
radio equipment and tower and 911 equipment which will have to be moved at a high expense.
Councilwoman Bennington said even with that expense, it's cheaper than the alternatives.
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Council Workshop Minutes
December 14, 1983
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Councilman Asting suggested providing a construction trailer for EVER and putting it
behind City Hall and make it permanent for their headquarters, which would give more
room for the Police Department, and would be a lot less money.
Mayor Ledbetter said they could buy a modular home with the same foundation as a house1
that is tied to the foundation,or go to a construction trailer on a frame with wheels.
Councilman Wargo said modular would be about $20,000, and the construction trailer would
need remodeled and air conditioner put in it. Councilwoman Bennington said maybe the
Rotary would volunteer to remodel it.
Councilman Asting said he didn't like the idea of the City accepting money to construct
a building and putting strings attached. Councilwoman Bennington asked where he'd
suggest putting a building. Councilman Asting said the Police and Fire Departments
could be together since they have to work together and he thought any land on u.s. 1
near the present Fire station should be reserved for possible construction of a Police
Station at a future date. Councilman Spencer said he didn't think the one acre was
enough land.
Councilwoman Bennington asked for suggestions for Rescue and Councilman Asting said a
permanent construction trailer finished off the way they want it for the training
sessions. Councilman Spencer said if they build anything near the present Fire station,
the building should be compatible. Councilwoman Bennington and Councilman Asting agreed
to that. Councilman Wargo asked what the Fire Department would say and Councilman Asting
said that's City land and they wouldn't be taking any interior space, but the empty lot
next to it.
Mrs. Olds distributed a suggested classroom setting from the American Red Cross and
said 25 foot wide is minimum and 45 to 50 foot deep is minimum and added they want to
cooperate with the Council in any way. Councilwoman Bennington said the Council realizes
that EVER has needs and they want to come up with something feasible with the least
amount of cost.
Councilman Asting asked Mrs. Olds the number of members in EVER. Mrs. Olds said they
have twelve, with three that don1t respond. She said they have people waiting to take
Advanced First Aid courses and are waiting to join when they've completed them.
Councilman Asting asked the size of construction trailers and Councilwoman Bennington
said they come in all sizes and with any facilities. Councilman Asting said they
could be tied down on a permanent foundation on U.S.l near the Fire station. Council-
woman Bennington said that's an excellent exit on U.S.l. There was a discussion about
the sizes of mobile homes and how they could be modified for a classroom situation.
Mrs. Olds noted that they voted not to accept a construction trailer because it would
be in a narrow space and would cut down on effectiveness. She said they need the 25
foot wide. Mr. Britain said the instructor needs the width to stand in the middle
and instruct the students. Mrs. Olds noted that the aesthetic quality is also important
and it would look narrow with a regular trailer. Mayor Ledbetter said they could buy
a double wide. Councilman Wargo spoke on pole buildings built with 4 x 4's with
siding on them and with insulation. Mr. Larry Westfall,of the Police Department, said
the Feed Bucket has that. Mrs. Olds said that 14 foot wide isn't wide enough.
Councilman Wargo suggested investigating the alternatives to see what they can come up
with. Councilman Asting said they want to follow through and get a decision in the
near future as to Police Department and EVER and he suggested getting prices on the
construction trailers with the width and depth that EVER wants and submit it to Council.
Mr. Westfall said Butler Building has a 50 x 100 like the one Feed Bucket has for
$15,000. for the material. Councilman Asting said he was concerned about the space.
Councilwoman Bennington said it's a metal building, and Councilman Wargo noted that it
can be insulated. Mrs. Olds said they didn't explore the alternatives because they
wanted Council directive. Councilman Spencer suggested reviewing this at Monday night's
meeting. City Clerk Kinsey said this will take some time if they take it out of
unappropriated funds because they have to hold public hearings.
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December 14, 1983
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Councilman Spencer said if they're going to spend $10,000. to $20,000. they should look
at the cost of a building that ~Iould be compatible to the Fire station and perhaps the
City could pay for the foundation and exterior and the Rotary complete the inside and
make it a long lasting permanent structure. Councilwoman Bennington said it .could be
finished outside to look like the Fire station's exterior. Councilman Spencer said he
didn't want something looking like a construction trailer next to the Fire station.
He noted that the Florida Shores Property Owners Association put up a 20 x 50 addition
for about $20,000. and it was a wood construction. Mayor Ledbetter suggested pulling
the figures on the Mango Tree Fire Station to see what the slabs cost and then weigh
the cost of each one.
Mrs. Olds said they'll work with Council on a project. Mr. Britain noted that the more
centrally located the better for responding to calls, and suggested that possibly the
City could buy the materials and the Rotary had the knowledge to put up a front com-
patible to the Fire station. He said they just need storage, clean up area, two rest
rooms, and the remainder would be an open area.
Councilwoman Bennington said if the City can come up with the space and the money for
the trailer, then perhaps they could impose on Rotary to remodel the inside and outside.
Councilman Wargo said he didn't agree with people from the outside doing the work because
of the potential of someone getting hurt and he didn't want them working on City property.
Councilwoman Bennington said the contractors are bonded themselves and it would be
like contracting for the Library. Councilman Wargo noted if someone gets hurt, it could
cost the City a lot of money.
Mrs. Olds said the Fire Department expressed the thought that they would furnish the
labor if they came up with the materials.
Councilman Wargo said he wanted to contract the job done and if Rescue wanted to do
something inside, that was all right.
Councilman Asting suggested the City Clerk get the literature on metal buildings and put
this on the agenda for Monday night. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd got that infor-
mation before. Councilman Spencer suggested a Council member work with the City Clerk
and Councilman Wargo said they could decide that on Monday night. Councilman Spencer
added that the member could work with EVER to get the information together for Council.
Mayor Ledbetter suggested the City Clerk call Mr. Montesano for the address in Jackson-
ville for his supplier.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if Rescue could put up with what they've been putting in
the Rescue room from the Police Department for a little longer. Mrs. Olds said she felt
Council will find a suitable place and they don't have any First Aid meetings until
January and they'll find elsewhere to do this. She said they have no other storage
available and will have to keep their equipment in there. Councilman Spencer suggested
getting with the church to use that building for storage.
Councilwoman Bennington asked how safe the oxygen storage is and Mrs. Olds said she
considers it safe. Councilman Wargo noted that you can store oxygen outside with a
fence around it. Mrs. Olds said they aren't talking about a large quantity. Mr.
Britain noted that it's only two cylinders.
Mrs. Olds asked a time line for this and City Clerk Kinsey said about 6 to 8 weeks to
get the necessary public hearings. Mrs. Olds said the church would want insurance
and the City to assume utilities and other things and the rooms are currently those
of an abandoned house and are not suitable for classrooms so it would only be for storage.
Councilwoman Bennington said it wouldn't be worth it. Mrs. Olds said they'll look for
something else for classes. Mr. Britain suggested they could find a building in town
they could rent or get a donation of a storage area, and perhaps Ed Hall could rent them
something. Mrs. Olds noted that they can keep the storage where it is now. Mayor Led-
better said he saw no reason to make a change in the next 60 days. Councilman Wargo
asked if there's anything large enough in the Elementary School and Mrs. Olds said that
some principals don't like to have activities that don't involve students. Councilman
Wargo noted that it pertains to student welfare indirectly. Mrs. Olds said it comes back
to liability insurance that is needed. Councilman Spencer asked when the next classes are
scheduled and Mrs. Olds said she has a waiting list for First Aid and it will be in January.
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Council Workshop Minutes
December 14, 1983
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Councilman Spencer asked if they'd discussed using the Florida Shores Property Owners
Clubhouse and Mrs. Olds said they have several meetings a week plus some on Saturday
mornings and they'd probably run into scheduling problems.
Mrs. Olds said she could have them in the Community Center when it's not being used.
Mrs. Britain said that Tuesday night is a class and the Fire Department has Bingo there.
Mrs. Olds said she realizes that the Police Department heeds the room on a daily basis.
Councilwoman Bennington said they're asking that they put up with it a little longer.
Mayor Ledbetter said that everything will go on as is until they formulate what they're
going to do.
Councilwoman Bennington asked Chief Baugh not to move any more equipment or other items
into that room until they could make other arrangements. Chief Baugh agreed that he'd
talk to Rescue first.
Mrs. Olds thanked the Council for their cooperation.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn the workshop. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion.
Workshop was adjourned at 10:46 AM.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
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December 14, 1983