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07-12-1984 - Special/Workshop , , ., . ~ .~ u ~ CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP JULY 12, 1984 MINUTES Mayor Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 3:04 P.M. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Present Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Jose' Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Excused Arrived Later Present Mayor Ledbetter stated the purpose of the meeting and workshop was to interview three appl icants for the Pol ice Chief position and possibly select one. He stated that the City Clerk's office received a call from one of the appl icants, Gary Hogeland, who had withdrawn as a candidate due to salary. Councilwoman Bennington moved to go into the Workshop session. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Chester Kowalski was the first applicant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to come to Edgewater and Mr. Kowalski said his main goal is to get back into law enforcement and he's been out of it for five months. He said held need to know from Council what they expect of a Chief and what areas they want improved. He added that he isn't famil iar with the City but he reviewed the crime statistics and sees room for improvements there. He noted that the 18% crime average is very low and he'd try to improve on that. Councilwoman Bennington asked about the auxil iary pol ice and Mr. Kowalski said he feels they are a necessity and he'd use the local newspapers to see who would be interested in becoming a reserve and take appl ications and screen them. Councilwoman Bennington asked the qual ifications to be a reserve officer and Mr. Kowalski said they have to fall within the guidel ines of the State and not be convicted of a felony or moral turpitude, but they donlt have to have a background in law enforcement. He added that they have to go to the Pol ice Academy within one year and they'd ride with other officers and be under their supervision. Councilwoman Bennington asked if this is a paid position and Mr. Kowalski repl ied that it's normally not paid. There was a further discussion regarding the qual ifications and abil ities of the reserve officers. Council- woman Bennington asked about putting a new officer into our system and Mr. Kowalski said there would be a training program which would be with one of the current officers to teach him the ropes and philosophy. He added that this should take approximately four weeks, but it depends on the individual. Mr. Kowalski stated that two-man units all the time for a town this size aren't cost efficient. Mayor Ledbetter asked if someone from another state has to be State certified here to be a Pol ice officer and Mr. Kowalski said he wouldn't hire anyone unless hels certified by the State and has gone through the Academy, and someone from another state would need supplementary training to get Florida certification. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he'd want uniform weapons for all officers or have them carry what they're qual ified to handle. Mr. Kowalski said he would want uniform weapons, a 38 cal ibre. Councilwoman Bennington asked his feelings about women Pol ice officers and Mr. Kowalski repl ied that he had four women in the Pol ice Department and one was a Sergeant. He added that if a woman can do the job, they can remain in the department and if not, theyld have to go. Councilwoman Bennington asked the salary he'd expect and Mr. Kowalski said he'd expect $22,500. but feels it IS a low salary, and would I ike to be evaluated after he's been here awhile. Councilwoman Bennington asked if held accept the position at that salary and Mr. Kowalski replied yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked what else held expect besides the salary and Mr. Kowalski said he'd expect a vehicle and a package for all new employees. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that in a previous interview Mr. Kowalski had said held expect a salary of $24,000. and Mr. Kowalski repl ied that this was his response to the question of what he felt a figure in the low 20ls would be. Q o Mr. Kowalski (continued) - Councilman Asting noted that there would be a probationary period of six months and Mr. Kowalski said he had no problem with that. Councilwoman Bennington asked when held be available to start and Mr. Kowalski repl ied probably within a week and his only con- flict is seminars for the Indian Affairs Board and his contract for a seminar for four days in August. Councilwoman Bennington asked if held wear a uniform and Mr. Kowalski said if itls optional held wear it for affairs of the City and would keep one readily available if needed. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that the Chief has always been a working position with a uniform and a marked car and it isnlt just an administrative position. Councilman Wargo stated that they expect a Chief to come in am organize the department, have good planning, a good training program, a miminum amount of overtime, and have a uniform patrol program with officers at a particular place at a particular time and the Chief will be under the direct control of Council. Councilwoman Bennington stated that sheld expect the Chief to handle public relations and morale of the men and training pro- grams plus upgrade the department to make it the most efficient it can be. Mr. Kowalski asked if an individual Council member is in charge of the Pol ice Department and Councilman Wargo repl ied no. City Attorney Alvarez arrived at the meeting at this time, 3:25 P.M. and directed questions to Mr. Kowalski. City Attorney Alvarez asked if held been involved in 1 iti- gat ion before and Mr. Kowalski repl ied that an individual sued his last department for a termination action taken but the court ruled in their favor. City Attorney Alvarez asked if held been involved in 1 itigation regarding civil 1 iabil ity, false arrest, or excessive use of force and Mr. Kowalski repl ied no. City Attorney Alvarez asked the area within a Pol ice Department that has the highest exposure 1 iabil ity-wise and Mr. Kowalski said under training, weapons qual ifying, search and seizure, and using a vehicle properly, but he didnlt think anyone item is outstanding. City Attorney Alvarez asked if a city the size of Edgewater has any particular area and Mr. Kowalski said driving a vehicle properly is important and if there1s a serious crime they have to be aware of the proper search and seizure practices. City Attorney Alvarez asked how he would avoid and minimize the 1 iabil ity of the Pol ice Department, and Mr. Kowalski repl ied that the key is training. City Attorney Alvarez asked the area of training he referred to and Mr. Kowalski repl ied firearms and driving vehicles are the biggest special ized areas, but training in all areas would be needed. City Attorney Alvarez asked if held been a part of any court procedures as a defendant, witness, or a department other than civil matters and Mr. Kowalski repl ied no, he was an Internal Affairs investigator but they very seldom had any- one come back about anything. City Attorney Alvarez asked how many men were in Internal Affairs and Mr. Kowalski repl ied only him except when he needed help for something serious. City Attorney Alvarez asked who he reported to and Mr. Kowalski repl ied the Chief of Pol ice. City Attorney Alvarez asked how held describe the organizational chart of a Pol ice Department and Mr. Kowalski replied it would be based on manpower but for a depart- ment this size it would be a Chief, perhaps a Lieutenant under him in charge of operations, a part-time investigator depending on the type of crime. City Attorney Alvarez stated that it would be reflected by needs of the community and Mr. Kowalski agreed. Douglas Betts was the next appl icant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Betts repl ied that he feels he has the experience and knowledge and administrative capabil ities. Mr. Betts added that hels been in an adminis- trative capacity the last two years, has twelve years experience and knowledge, and has about 1700 hours in-class training, and is close to getting his degree in Pol ice Adminis- tration from Eckerd College. Councilwoman Bennington asked if held famil iarized himself with Edgewater since his last interview and Mr. Betts repl ied no. Councilwoman Bennington asked how held train a new officer already certified and with previous experi- ence elsewhere. Mr. Betts said there are 40 to 80 hours for field training officers and held look for his most experienced man and place him with the new officer to ride with him for about a month to become famil iar with geography, safety, County and City ordin- ances, and let him handle some of the I ighter cases. Councilwoman Bennington asked if there would be a standard training procedure for a new officer regardless of experience and Mr. Betts replied yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked about auxil iary Police officers and Mr. Betts said he thinks theylre wonderful if properly trained. Councilwoman Bennington asked how held institute the auxil iary and Mr. Betts repl ied that held look for a local academy. He added that the State requires 100 hours of in-class training to be certified to carry a weapon and he wouldnlt put someone in a patrol car without a weapon. -2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes J u 1 y 12, 1984 ~~ u Q Mr. Betts (continued),- Councilwoman Bennington asked if he preferred uniform weapons and Mr. Betts said he's an FBI firearms instructor and he thinks firearms should be uniform and the property of the City and issued and inspected and he preferred a 357 unless Council wants to change it. Mr. Betts added that he has issued in Perry the 586 Smith & Wesson. Councilwoman Bennington asked how often an officer should qual ify and Mr. Betts repl ied as many times as Council will finance it and at least every three months or more. Councilwoman Bennington asked about women on the force and Mr. Betts repl ied that he had a lot of experience with female Pol ice road officers and female Pol ice detectives and the women excel in investigative positions but- on the road, due to their physical make-up, he usually has a backup go with them. He added that he institutes backups on any violent calls.- Mr. Betts stated that the women write better reports and their vocabulary is better and theylre serious and dedicated. Councilwoman Bennington asked what salary he would expect and Mr. Betts repl ied that he'd expect the salary quoted of $22,500. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he'd expect any- thing besides the salary and Mr. Betts repl ied a car. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he would wear a uniform and Mr. Betts replied yes, he'd worn it for twelve years and expects to wear it awhile longer. Councilwoman Bennington asked if held be available in two to four weeks and Mr. Betts said he could be available in two weeks with no problems but would prefer August 1st and could be here before that to famil iarize himself with the area and the people. Councilman Asting noted that there's a six month probationary period and Mr. Betts said he rea.l ized that, and asked if therels a contract. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that there would be no contract. City Attorney Alvarez directed questions to Mr. Betts. City Attorney Alvarez asked, in order of preference, the three main areas the Police Department serves in the community. Mr. Betts repl ied that it's the only agency the City provides that's available to the people twenty-four hours a day. City Attorney Alvarez asked what area of need it serves to the community. Mr. Betts repl ied protection of property and person, emergencies, and information center. City Attorney Alvarez asked if holding of publ ic trust to enforce and uphold laws is important and Mr. Betts repl ied that it's the highest priority, and he takes for granted trust, pride and honesty because they represent the community and the Council and he's proud to be a professional Pol iceman. City Attorney Alvarez asked if he attended Field Training Officers schools and Mr. Betts said he was an officer and got training at Sarasota and FTO in Perry. He added that Sarasota has a program where they can be sanctioned by CJST to be certified and he didnlt graduate as an FTO but attended enough courses and has been appointed twice to instruct courses. City Attorney Alvarez asked the role he feels training has in the Pol ice Depart- ment and the impact of it and Mr. Betts repl ied it's to. avoid liabil ity against the Pol ice officers and the City. City Attorney Alvarez asked what area provided the most 1 iabil ity and Mr. Betts said lack of education or experience in an officer as they have to make a decision in a spl it second and training helps. City Attorney Alvarez and Mr. Betts discussed the frequency of use of weapons by an officer. City Attorney Alvarez asked what activity creates the most 1 iabil ity for a department the size of Edgewater's and Mr. Betts repl iedthe most repercussions is personal contact such as handcuffing. City Attorney Alvarez asked about false arrest. Mr. Betts said Pol ice brutal ity is when someone is arrested for DWI and not given a breathol izer test. City Attorney Alvarez asked how a certain age and being married makes a difference in an officer and Mr. Betts repl ied that he's going by experience and statistics and he prefers a patrolman married and 25 to unmarried. City Attorney Alvarez pointed out that Title VI I of Civil Rights determines that any person can be a member, and Mr. Betts repl ied that he's famil iar with that. City Attorney Alvarez asked why he favors the 357 calibre and Mr. Betts repl ied that with a particular type of bullet it has a knock down power mandatory where a 38 bounces off windshields. City Attorney Alvarez asked about a 38 or 45 for Pol ice officers to dispatch their duties and Mr. Betts said the training is important and the job is to keep the peace or restore the peace and the 357 has penetration with a particular type bullet -and-held 1 ike it issued to all the men. Mr. Betts added that he doesn't want his officer hurt because of inadequate power. -3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 12, 1984 " , ~ u o ~ Mr. Betts (continued)- Councilwoman Bennington asked if there were two appl icants of equal cal ibre and one was male and one was female, how would he determine which would be hired. Mr. Betts said he couldn't say except that they would be unequal in some way. A discussion followed and Mr. Betts said the oral interview would be the deciding factor but he has never seen equals. City Attorney Alvarez asked about records and the degree of importance to assess abil ities and performance, and Mr. Betts repl ied that's he's for it. City Attorney Alvarez and Mr. Betts discussed the importance of past records of an individual compared to an oral interview and feel ings gotten at the interview. Mr. Betts stated that he expects to hire an officer he's comfortable with and one he can trust. City Attorney Alvarez asked what he expects in trust and Mr. Betts repl ied that trust is that he has his full support. Mr. Betts reviewed the X,Y,Z theory on autocratic, democratic, and free will leadership, and said he subscribes to democratic and free will and 1 ikes to stay in both equally but will have to take over in a crisis in an autocratic manner. He added that he wants the men or women to make the decisions and accept the responsibility for everyday matters. Councilwoman Bennington asked if the people would 1 isten to him if a situation arises where he has to be assertive and Mr. Betts said the Department will know him and he'll take the reins if necessary. City Attorney Alvarez asked who he'd be working for and Mr. Betts repl ied the City and the Council. City Attorney Alvarez asked the organizational structure and Mr. Betts repl ied that hels not famil iar with the City's structure but helll be responsible to Council and will introduce his ideas to Council for approval. He reviewed how held structure the department and said they could branch into many areas if manpower is available. City Attorney Alvarez asked if the Pol ice Department is a paramil itary organization and Mr. Betts repl ied yes, the structure is and that's the way he was trained. City Attorney Alvarez asked the relationship between the department members and Council and also the political goals and objectives with Council. Mr. Betts repl ied that he wouldn't want the men to be involved pol itically but he's involved pol itically as an administrator of the City. Mayor Ledbetter asked if with the paramil itary structure that all others than Police are known as civil ians. Mr. Betts repl ied no, held be using the paramilitary structure but not paramil itary ideas. He added that Pol icemen with mil itary experience use the term civil ian among themselves but he doesn't. Councilwoman Bennington asked if an officer feels that there are two types of people, Pol ice and non-Pol ice. Mr. Betts repl ied that an officer on the street for 10 years has his own attitude and sees a lot of the '~nimal" world and is under great stress but he hopes to alleviate some of that stress because it can cause 1 iabil ities they all fear. Councilman Wargo suggested an 8-hour day might be better and Mr. Betts said he'd go no longer than 10 hours. Mr. Betts reviewed how a man changes reaction time and other changes while he's on duty. City Attorney Alvarez asked about regulations for operating vehicles and Mr. Betts stated that there will be regulations for driving Police vehicles. City Attorney Alvarez asked if he'd formulated these in the past and Mr. Betts repl ied yes, that's part of the Sergeant's exam to know the regulations. City Attorney Alvarez asked about State regulations and Mr. Betts said the State requires that emergency vehicles follow certain guidel ines but he wants to institute more safety also. City Attorney Alvarez asked if the vehicle has the right of way during pursuit and Mr. Betts replied yes, unless it's recently changed. City Attorney Alvarez asked about when the vehicle is in the right of way and Mr. Betts said the safety is involved and they have to proceed with caution at a red 1 ight or intersection and helll train the men to know the City and the traffic habits and there'll be a number of guidel ines that are on paper that they'll follow. Mr. Betts added that an officer is no good if he wrecks or kills himself or someone else on the way to an emergency. City Attorney Alvarez asked the chain of command in case of infraction of department rules insofar as investigation and discipl ine is concerned. Mr. Betts repl ied that the immediate supervisor would handle it. City Attorney Alvarez asked if the decision is final and Mr. Betts said he could appeal it through the Sergeant. City Attorney Alvarez asked how held handle an accident of an officer if his supervisor feels he's at fault and Mr. Betts said held want a full report and any accident involving a City vehicle will be investigated by him. City Attorney Alvarez asked how he'd handle a citizen's complaint about misconduct of a Pol ice officer. Mr. Betts repl ied that he would read the officer's report and talk to him and talk to the citizen making the complaint and if it's a serious complaint, helll go to the polygraph of his officer and also ask the citizen to consent to a polygraph, but if it's not serious, he'll work it out. -4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 12, 1984 " t. ~ o o Mr. Betts (continued)- City Attorney Alvarez asked how held handle it if the complaining citizen is connected to pol itically influential people in the community and can have pressure put on him. Mr. Betts said held use the same procedure but under certain circumstances he's been faced with changing his decision due to lack of information. City Attorney Alvarez stated that the Chief is appointed by Council and serves at their will and asked if the relationship is clear in his mind. Mr. Betts repl ied yes. City Attorney Alvarez stated that any appointments are subject to full background investi- gation and Councilwoman Bennington and Councilman Wargo agreed. Meeting was recessed at 4:33 PM when the interview was concluded. Meeting returned in session at 4:37 PM. Councilwoman Bennington moved to go back into the Special Meeting. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Councilwoman Bennington stated that there were some points that Mr. Betts brought up that she didn1t 1 ike but she preferred him to the other appl icant and was pleased that he could be here within two weeks. She then moved to hire Douglas Betts at $22,500. with a car. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 3-1. Mayor Ledbetter voted NO. Councilman Wargo said there's a problem with unauthorized people in the Pol ice Department and Council should issue an order that all unauthorized personnel be kept out of the Pol ice Department and this would include past Pol ice officers, officers' wives, and anyone else if it doesn't pertain to Pol ice work in the Pol ice Department. Councilwoman Bennington agreed that no one can go in and out there. Mayor Ledbetter stated that it's become a social club. Councilman Wargo so moved and Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Councilman Asting said he wasnlt aware there was a problem. Motion CARRIED 4-0. City Clerk Kinsey stated that there are shift problems that Sergeant Westfall wants to talk to Council about and she requested a short recess. Meeting was recessed at 4:42 PM. Meeting returned in session at 4:48 PM. Sergeant Westfall was present at the meeting at this time. He asked if he can hire officers as soon as they have the oral review and added that they have a 1 ist of ten people. Mayor Ledbetter asked if any of the ten are qual ified people and Sergeant Westfall repl ied yes, some with prior experience and some available to work immediately. Sergeant Westfall said he's made arrangements to have the examinations done by the doctor and the unfform suppl ier will be by the next day in case they don't already have uniforms that might fit. He added that every attempt to fit uniforms on hand to the ones selected. will be made. Councilwoman Bennington asked about the schedul ing problems and Sergeant Westfall said Sergeant Lenz will be the officer in charge and he'll have to change the schedule around to try to avoid overtime and to get the new individuals with three working days within the next pay period. Councilwoman Bennington noted that the new officers aren't supposed to start the same day and Sergeant Westfall said they can start one Saturday on days and the other Saturday night with different supervisors. Councilwoman Bennington said she thought he wanted the different starting times for seniority reasons and Sergeant Westfall said they can start one Saturday and one Sunday but this is going to require a schedul ing change the first of the week and another change when the individuals go out in a car alone. He suggested moving Patrolman Lusk to the detective division and Mayor Ledbetter said they don1t need that. Sergeant Westfall noted that as problems within the City arise, the crime rates increase and they could eliminate the schedul ing situation by using an individual already on day shift, such as Sergeant McEver. Councilwoman Bennington said they have to do whatever is needed for coverage for the City and make sure a new officer isn't alon~. Sergeant Westfall said he takes the responsibil ity of protecting the City from civil liabil ity. Councilman Wargo moved to have him use his best judgement regarding the rescheduling. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion and said whatever has to be done should be done since it IS a temporary thing. Mayor Ledbetter stated he should util ize the men to the best advantage of the people of the City. Sergeant Westfall said he could leave the schedule the way it is and use a person already on days but it may cause resentment. Mayor Ledbetter said he has no objection to hiring new men. Sergeant Westfall pointed out that his temporary position ended the 11th at midnight and he wants Sergeant Lenz in the position without having to worry about this. Motion CARRIED 4-0. -5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 12, 1984 , I.' · o o Councilwoman Bennington moved to rescind the previous motion and put the two new officers on as soon as possible provided they are with another training officer. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilwoman Bennington moved that they extend Sergeant Westfall IS interim period until he turns it over to Sergeant Lenz, not to exceed past Wednesday. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Sergeant Westfall distributed copies of the 1 ist of officers to be interviewed and said onedoesnlt have the forty hours. Councilman Asting said held 1 ike the City Clerk to report to Council on Monday night on the starting date for a Pol ice Chief. City Clerk Kinsey said Mr. Betts will be available August 1st. City Attorney Alvarez stated that Council needs to adopt a resolution of appointment and this can be an amendment to the agenda for Monday night and Mr. Betts can take the oath of office at that time. Sergeant Westfall asked if the Chevrolet driven by past Chiefs can be allowed to be taken to Sergeant Lenzls home. Councilwoman Bennington so moved. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Asting moved to adjourn. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 5:10 PM. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser CD~ tJ:'1t-VL ATTEST: ~ /[h~ (j T ~ {/ 1--<6 ~, -6- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 12, 1984