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07-06-1984 - Special/Workshop Q Q . CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP JULY 6, 1984. MINUTES Mayor Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 9:00 A.M. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Present Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Jose' Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Deputy City Clerk S.Wadsworth Excused Excused Excused Present Mayor Ledbetter stated that the purpose of the meeting and workshop was to interview applicants for the Police Chief position. He added that Michael Handley had notified the City Clerk's office that he was withdrawing his application. Mayor Ledbetter stated that there were two requests from officer-in-charge Larry Westfall, which they could consider at that time due to the withdrawing of the first scheduled applicant's interview. Deputy City Clerk Wadsworth read the July 5th memo from Sergeant Westfall requesting that he be granted a vacation from July 15th through August 13, 1984. Councilman Wargo moved to grant the request. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion for discussion, and asked what they'll do for an officer-in-charge for that period of time. Councilman Wargo stated that there are three other Sergeants and they can go to another one. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Wargo moved to appoint Sergeant Lenz in the event they need someone further. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's the next senior and Mayor Ledbetter said he's next senior on the road. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd like to think about this before she makes a decision. Councilman Wargo noted that rumors are going around that the other two Sergeants are contemplating leaving. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they hold off on a decision until the end of the day to see if they appoint someone and Councilman Wargo withdrew his motion. Deputy City Clerk Wadsworth read the July 5th memo from Sergeant Westfall requesting authorization to hire three new Police officers. Councilman Wargo noted that there will be overtime involved again. Councilwoman Bennington stated that she'd authorize the hiring of two officers but leave the one slot open for the new Chief to make the selection. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that City Clerk Kinsey sits in on the oral interviews. Councilman Wargo suggested they leave this request until the end of the day also. Councilman Asting moved to go into a workshop session. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Meeting was recessed into a workshop session. Craig Humble was the first applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if he's presently employed at an Airport and Mr. Humble replied yes. Councilman Asting asked the number of members on the Force and Mr. Humble replied there are thirty-two. Council- man Asting noted that the salary advertised is the low 20's and Mr. Humble stated that he made $21,000. last year but he'd like to talk about other items first as salary wasn't the major consideration in applying for this job. Mr. Humble stated that he's 32 years old and a Police Sergeant and his department went from 12 four years ago to 32 now and the budget went from $125,000. to $1.3 million. He noted that he wants a career-oriented move. Councilman Asting asked if he'd move to this area and Mr. Humble said yes. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good physical condition with no disabilities and Mr. Humble replied that he's in excellent health and participates in the Police olympics. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had any serious illness and Mr. Humble replied no but he had an eye injury in the service but has 20/20 vision. Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Humble said he would start formal and go to informal when he1s seen how the de~artment runs now. Councilman Asting asked if he thinks it's necessary to have inspections as each shift goes on duty and Mr. Humble replied that it's not necessary every day. Q o Craig Humble (continued) - Councilwoman Bennington asked if a career move is the only reason he wants to become Chief and Mr. Humble replied that anything he does toward his future goals is a career step and the tenure of a Chief is 5 years in Florida. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he has any knowledge of Edgewater or the Police Depart- ment and Mr. Humble said no. Councilwoman Bennington asked how held run the Department and Mr. Humble replied that the patrol or uniform division is a major factor for pre- vention of crime and then it's public service. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience~ and Mr. Humble said hels been involved in the payroll for the department and processed the budget items and takes care of the training end along with two other super- visors. He added that he works under a direct cash flow~ and the Airport is a department within the County government in Lee County and they operate on an Airport Enterprise Fund and they're supported by the airlines and funds generated by fees to the Airport. Council- woman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Humble said he's heard the term but didn't know the definition. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Humble replied that the officer will take care of the car and if therels an emergency~ helll be able to go from there. Councilman Wargo asked if he'd ever been arrested and Mr. Humble replied no. Councilman Wargo asked if he smokes or drinks and Mr. Humble replied that he doesn't smoke and isnlt a heavy drinker or doesn't drink alone. Mayor Ledbetter asked his Air Force MOS and Mr. Humble replied it was with Security Police. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that therels an election in November and there's a possibility that the Police Chief could be terminated by the new Council and asked if he felt a short time would enhance his career. Mr. Humble replied that it might be detrimental if it's only for that period of time but held worked for the Lee County Sheriffls Department and the tenure there is at the whim of the Sheriff. He added that he's never had any problem with someone saying he hasn't worked up to par and he thinks this would be a good oppor- tunity for him. Councilman Asting asked the number of men under him and Mr. Humble replied that there's a shift of seven men under his supervision. Councilman Asting asked his primary responsi- bility and Mr. Humble said he's day shift supervisor and theylre branched into four different specialties. He added that they take care of security and perform seminars for other law enforcement agencies as part of Mutual Aid. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Mr. Humble thanked Council for having him and added that he just became certified for Police Standards and Training as an instructor and it will be easy for him to run a training program and certify the officers in any areas. Paul Frost~ Jr. was the second applicant to be interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's presently Chief at Avon Park and Mr. Frost replied yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked the population there and Mr. Frost said it's 8~400. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to leave Avon Park to come to Edgewater and Mr. Frost said he was under investigation by the Grand Jury when he applied here and Highlands County is in the middle of nowhere and held like to get his daughter closer to a college. He reviewed the instance of the investigation in response to his report filed with the State Attorneyls office regarding an officer suspected of selling City property. He added that the State Attorneyls office dropped the charge because they couldn't prove the intent to defraud and then there was another incident regarding two officers and they are still on the force. Councilman Asting asked about the salary and Mr. Frost said he makes $23,800. now at Avon Park and he understood it was low 20's. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good physical condition and Mr. Frost replied yes and he runs with his daughter. Councilman Asting asked if he had any serious illnesses and Mr. Frost said he got tropical flu in 1970 in Viet Nam but he's worked with the high school baseball team the past two years. Councilman Asting asked his time spent in the Navy and Mr. Frost replied that it was almost 24 years and he retired from there. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Frost replied that with a small depart- ment it should be operated on an informal but stern basis to gain respect of the men who work for you but you must be able to go out and work with them and do the same job theylre doing. Mr. Frost noted that the crime solved rate in Edgewater is 18% and he hoped to double that as Chief. Councilman Asting pointed out that a lot of transients come through this area and some of the crime rate is attributed to them. -2- Council Special Meeting and Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Paul Frost, Jr. (continued) - Councilman Asting asked if a formal inspection is needed as each shift comes on duty and Mr. Frost replied that if they're trained well they'll have pride and won't need it. Councilman Asting asked who'd make the inspections and Mr. Frost replied the Sergeants should have that responsibility. Councilman Asting asked if the working hours would be 8 hours a day and five days a week and Mr. Frost replied that he doesn't know the setup in Edgewater but he likes the 12-hour shifts with two days on and two days off. Councilman Asting asked if the Chief should make inspections at various times and Mr. Frost replied that he should and it should be unannounced, because they tend to become lax. Councilman Astinq asked his rank at retirement and Mr. Frost replied it was Chief Petty Officer E-7. - Mayor Ledbetter noted that with 12-hour shifts the men get careless between 6PM and 6AM. Mr. Frost said he'd worked it for six years and the men on the second night look forward to the next two days off but he'd work with Council on the shifts. Councilman Asting asked how the investigation came out and Mr. Frost replied that they threw it out and found no grounds for filing a charge. Councilman Asting noted that he could lose his retirement pay if convicted of a felony and Mr. Frost replied that he knew that and he was told to resign and the State Attorney would forget the whole thing but he knew he was innocent. Mayor Ledbetter asked if the City Attorney defended him and Mr. Frost said no, he had to hire his own attorney. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. C. F. Myhr was the third applicant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked his present position and Mr. Myhr said he's semi-retired. Councilman Asting noted he was Chief in Iowa for four years and asked the size of the city. Mr. Myhr replied it's 24,000 and he now lives in Ocala. Councilman Asting asked if held relocate here and Mr. Myhr said yes. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good physical condition and Mr. Myhr said yes. Councilman Asting asked if held had any serious illnesses and Mr. Myhr said no. Council- man Asting asked if the advertised salary is acceptable and Mr. Myhr said yes. Councilman Asting asked what he felt the salary would be and Mr. Myhr said in the mid 20's. Councilman Wargo asked if he's presently a certified Police officer and Mr. Myhr replied no but it shouldn't be a problem because hels certified in Minneapolis and Iowa and it's a matter of getting basic requirements that Florida requires. Councilman Asting asked if he was arrested or under investigation at any time and Mr. Myhr replied no, all held ever had were traffic tickets. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Myhr said he's been in Police work for 25 years and he feels he has a lot to offer to the profession and isn't ready to retire yet as he has a lot of knowledge to pass along. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Myhr replied no. Council- woman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Myhr said he worked with a $1.2 million dollar budget. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Myhr replied it's where the individuals in charge of a particular group of workers are also liable for what the workers do that they shouldnlt be doing. Councilman Asting asked if held conduct the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Myhr said it would be both but mostly informal. Councilman Asting asked about inspections while off duty and Mr. Myhr replied that the Chief is on duty 24 hours a day and if he felt something was amiss held be checking on it. Councilman Wargo asked how long held been in the military and Mr. Myhr said it was 10 or 11 years active and finished in the Reserves with a total of about 23 years and he now gets Reserve retirement. Mr. Myhr stated he was almost 25 years in municipal law enforcement in Minneapolis and he started in 1956. Councilman Asting asked when he was in the Air Force and Mr. Myhr said in 1956 and it was only active for training and schooling in the Air Force with active duty in the Army for 10 to 11 years. He added that he left the service to go with Northwest Airlines and then went to Police work in Minnesota. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. -3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o William Sidoran was the fourth applicant interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if hels in good physical condition and Mr. Sidoran said yes. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had any serious illnesses and Mr. Sidoran said held broken a wrist as a Police officer in a motorcycle accident. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Sidoran replied that direction would have to come from Council but sometimes it has to be formal. Councilman Asting asked about inspections when new shifts come on and Mr. Sidoran said he didn't have formal inspections but had an informal glance at uniforms and checked daily reports. Councilman Asting asked if the Sergeant should check this and Mr. Sidoran replied yes, he should be aware that theylre prepared to do the job. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to come to Edgewater and Mr. Sidoran said he likes the area and his children also do and he was in Dade County for 6 years. He added that he'd talked to several people and was told it's a good family location. Councilman Asting asked how long he'd been in the Marines and Mr. Sidoran replied 3 years. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Sidoran said no. Councilman Asting asked how long he's been Chief and Mr. Sidoran said it was 3 years. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and the amount. Mr. Sidoran replied it was a budget of $315,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked the number of men on his force and Mr. Sidoran said 24, and added that he's Director of Public Safety and handles Fire also and that budget. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Sidoran said itls liability that attaches to someone through a third party.action. Councilman Asting noted that the salary advertised was low 20's and Mr. Sidoran replied that he'd think thatls between $23,000. and $25,000. Councilman Asting asked if he'd ever been arrested or charged with a crime and Mr. Sidoran said no. Councilman Wargo asked if held ever left a job under pressure and Mr. Sidoran said no. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's state certified and Mr. Sidoran replied yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked how soon he'd be available if selected and Mr. Sidoran said he'd need 30 days as held have to appoint a Police Chief there as Director of Public Safety. He added that they have someone ready to slip into that slot when needed. Councilman Asting asked if he's from Florida and Mr. Sidoran said hels from New York originally but came here at 21 years old and left 8 years later. Mayor Ledbetter asked about the FBI Police Management School and Mr. Sidoran said it was the short course. Councilwoman Bennington asked what procedures he'd follow in hiring a new officer and Mr. Sidoran reviewed the interviewing procedure, background check, and the pyschological exam, and then submitted the top 5 or so to the City administration. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12-hour shifts and Mr. Sidoran stated that it's too long to ask someone to work and he likes the 10 hour shifts four days a week with three days off. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Sidoran said he likes it and the officers keep them clean and maintenance charges are lower and it's good for morale and motivation but the problemsare cost and insurance for all the cars. Councilman Wargo asked if there's a problem with employees who don't take them home and Mr. Sidoran said yes but that's addressed when the man is hired or is set by Council. He added that they shouldn't be driven outside the City limits. Councilman Asting asked his children's ages and Mr. Sidoran replied they are 17, 15, 14, and 10. Mr. Sidoran asked if there are activities for teen-agers and Councilwoman Bennington said they go to Daytona Beach a lot. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming. Dennis Velte was the fifth applicant interviewed. Councilman Asting asked the size of the Police Department and Mr. Velte said there are 60 men and when he started out there were only 25. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to leave there and Mr. Velte said he wants to get out of Dade County and he likes the northern and central areas and has worked to have his finances in order to make a change. He added that he likes this area and his wife and children like the water and beaches. Councilman Wargo asked what wages he expects and Mr. Velte said he knew it's much lower than Dade County. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he knew about Edgewater and Mr. Velte said he'd come into town the day before and talked with some of the patrolmen and other people and reviewed the budget. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he felt was the biggest problem here and Mr. Velte said the patrolmen think it's lack of leader- ship and additional training plus salaries. -4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Dennis Velte (continued) - Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edge- water and Mr. Velte replied that he could put back good morale through additional training and time off. Councilman Asting pointed out that many officers use Edgewater as a stepping stone to higher positions especially with the Cape, and Mr. Velte noted that this was true in Homestead also, but there is additional money for incentive and possible restructuring might help and possible promotion. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good physical condition and Mr. Velte yes. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had any serious illnesses and Mr. Velte said no. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department on a formal or informal basis and how held manage inspections. Mr. Velte said in a small department they tend to become lax with uniforms and hair styles and the Sergeant should report back to the Chief or to another position if there's one between the two. Councilman Asting asked about the Chief's inspections and Mr. Velte said the Chief should have one a week and one every day by Sergeants and held work it during all shifts unannounced. Councilman Wargo asked what held done prior to Police work and Mr. Velte said he was a correctional officer and before that he was a home builder. Councilman Wargo asked if held ever been arrested and Mr. Velte replied no. Councilman Wargo asked if he smokes or drinks and Mr. Velte said he smokes and has an occasional drink. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Velte said they did studies on several plans but he isn't familiar with that one. He added that held talked to one of the officers and it seems to be a good thing because they're short-handed and it allows two Police officers on the streets at all times. He added that if the man is moonlighting elsewhere and trying to pull 12 hours he tends to be lax. Councilman Wargo asked what he works under now and Mr. Velte replied it's 8 hours a day with five days on and two days off with a squad system. Councilman Asting asked what he'd expect in a salary and Mr. Velte replied about $25,000. Mayor Ledbetter asked his current salary and Mr. Velte said he's making about $34,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked when held be available to start if selected and Mr. Velte said he'd like to give his department a two-week notice. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Velte replied it's that the City is liable for a lot of damages .of Police officers if they don't act in the scope of their duties. Councilwoman Bennington asked about his budget experience and Mr. Velte said he had full responsibility to prepare his budget for the K-9 division and each shift commander is responsible for adding to his budget extra equipment and manpower and for keeping track of the overtime. Councilwoman Bennington asked the amount of the budget and Mr. Velte said it was $18,000. which didn't include salaries. Councilman Asting asked if there's anything in his background that would be detrimental to his career and Mr. Velte replied no. Councilman Asting asked his military experience and Mr. Velte said he had four years in the Air Force from 1966-1970. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. Thomas Wall was the sixth applicant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Wall said he wants to expand his life and he's a patrol commander in Holly Hill but that city hasn't grown much since 1976. He added that they have about 10,000 people there and he feels Edgewater is up and coming. Councilman Asting asked the size of the force there and Mr. Wall said they have 20 sworn men and 28 people in the department. Councilman Asting asked his present rank and Mr. Wall said he is a Sergeant, and they have one Lieutenant and one Chief. Councilman Asting asked the number of men on the shift and Mr. Wall said there are 3 to 6. Councilman Asting asked if his relationship with the men is formal or informal and Mr. Wall said it's formal at times but because of the size, it isn't always formal. Councilman Asting asked how many times he inspects and Mr. Wall said five times a week when shifts change and he inspects uniforms and weaponry. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Wall said he's fairly familiar with it. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's aware of the audit report and Mr. Wall said held heard about the management survey done. Councilman Asting asked if he knows any officers here and Mr. Wall replied no. Councilman Asting asked if he knew any former officers and Mr. Wall said he knew Dennis Warren and Paul Page. -5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Thomas Wall (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked if he likes the reserve officers' program and Mr. Wall replied he does and they use reserves as full time officers as they're fully trained and it cuts down on overtime. Councilman Wargo asked abo~the Explorer's unit and Mr. Wall said he thinks Edgewater could become involved. Councilman Wargo asked if he'd ever been arrested and Mr. Wall replied no. Councilman Wargo asked if he smokes or drinks and Mr. Wall said he doesn't smoke but has an occasional drink. Councilman Wargo asked if he'd ever had a reprimand about his conduct and Mr. Wall said held never had an oral or written reprimand. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Wall said he likes it because they take better care of the equipment. Councilman Wargo asked about high speed chase and Mr. Wall replied they stay away from it unless there's a felony involved. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12-hour shifts and Mr. Wall said there was a study done on this but he'd never worked it and he understood it's better for the officers' home lives. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he feels the man is capable at 12 hours and Mr. Wall said no, after 10 hours he looks at going home but it has its good points. Councilwoman Bennington asked about vicarious liability and Mr. Wall said it's when someone is hired and has a problem the supervisor or Chief who hires and retains the subject without attention would be responsible. Councilman Asting asked about the salary and Mr. Wall said he could live with anything in the low 20ls and he now makes $19,000. or $20,000. a year with an adjusted salary of $25,500. last year. Councilman Wargo asked if he would commute or move and Mr. Wall said it takes about 18 minutes to drive here but he'd want to stay in Edgewater. He added that he also applied to the Federal Government. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. Thomas Watkins was the seventh applicant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked his position in Melbourne and Mr. Watkins said he's the Chief's administrative assis- tant and does the budget and handles things the Chief doesn't have time for and is responsible for planning and research involved with reserve units and special activities. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to come to Edgewater to be Chief and Mr. Watkins said his goal is to be a Chief and he's been in his current position for five years and can't get any higher unless his Chief moves on. . . Councilman Asting asked who's beneath him and Mr. Watkins said there is a Lieutenant but his position is off to the side but in the operational end of it. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good health and Mr. Watkins said yes. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had any serious illnesses or broken bones and Mr. Watkins replied no to serious illnesses and not since Junior High School for broken bones. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Watkins said no, but he'd looked at staffing levels and crime but isn't familiar with day to day operations. Councilwoman Bennington asked if held heard about the audit report and Mr. Watkins replied no. Councilwoman Bennington asked the number of men in his present position and Mr. Watkins said there are 93 sworn officers. Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department on a formal or informal basis. Mr. Watkins said he'd tend to be informal because of the size and he's a firm believer in participatory management. Councilman Asting asked if it would be a first name basis with patrolmen and Mr. Watkins said he'd refer to them by their first name but wouldn't expect them to refer to him by a first name. Councilman Asting asked about inspections of officers and t1r. Watkins replied that on a day to day basis every time the shift comes on duty the Sergeant should look over the officers and ~eriodically they'd get a formal inspection. Councilman Asting asked if the Chief should make the inspections or rely on his Sergeants and Mr. Watkins said held rely on his Sergeants but there's still the responsibility of observing the officers and a Chief works 24 hours a day and would occasionally see officers on the midnight shift. Councilman Asting asked if hels married and Mr. Watkins said yes with two children. Councilman Asting asked if he would move to this area if selected and Mr. Watkins replied yes. Councilman Asting asked his present salary and Mr. Watkins replied it's $23,600. Councilman Asting pointed out that our advertisement stated salary of low 20's. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Watkins said it's when one within the chain fouls up, everyone is responsible for thoseactions depending on whether they've done things to provide him with guidance and how to respond to situations. Councilman Asting asked if he'd been in the military and Mr. Watkins said he was four years in the Air Force. Councilwoman Bennington asked when he'd be able to start if selected and Mr. Watkins said at least two weeks but no more than three or four. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. -6- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Gerald Hytry VIas the eJghth appl icant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked his present salary and Mr. Hytry said it's $18,600. Councilman Asting asked if he's presently a Lieutenant and Mr. Hytry replied that he's Acting Chief in Dunellon. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he's on loan there and Mr. Hytry said he left the Sheriff's Department to take the position with Dunellon because he 'was familiar with their problem. He added that his wife is taking a position in this area and they'll be moving here. Councilwoman Bennington asked how soon he'd be able to start if he were selected and Mr. Hytry said he was planning to leave Dunellon in three or four weeks when they hire a permanent Chief. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he'd wanted that job in Dunellon and Mr. Hytry said no because his wife was relocating. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Hytry said yes from visiting the area but he doesn't know any of the employees. Councilman Asting asked if he has children and Mr. Hytry replied he has two. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Hytry replied that he controlled a budget of $415,000. with the Sheriff's Department and then redid the budget for Dunellon but it wasn't that much. Councilwoman Bennington asked how many officers are in Dunellon and Mr. Hytry said there are ten and he was responsible for 22 in Citrus County. Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Hytry said he tries to put himself on both levels. Councilman Asting asked if he uses first names with patrolmen and Mr. Hytry said yes but they are respectful to him. Councilman Asting asked about inspections and Mr. Hytryreplied that the vehicle inpsections are done by Sergeants and personnel inspections are weekly by the Chief and daily by the Sergeants. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability. Mr. Hytry replied it's anything of a serious nature to cause or show intent that you took no action to correct a situation or improve a condition. Mr. Hytry apologized for not having the opportunity to submit an updated resume. Council- woman Bennington asked if he's on leave of absence from the Sheriff's Department and Mr. Hytry said he'd resigned because he's planning to move to this area. Councilman Asting asked if he'd ever been arrested or any charges brought against him and Mr. Hytry replied no. Mr. Hytry thanked Council for the opportunity to come and be considered for the position. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Douglas Betts was the ninth applicant interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked his duties as an Executive Officer and Mr. Betts replied that it's the #2 position because they don't need two Chiefs or an Assistant Chief and it's a 17-man department. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good health and Mr. Betts said yes. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had serious illnesses or broken bones and Mr. Betts replied no to each. Councilman Asting asked his present salary and Mr. Betts said it's $20,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief and Mr. Betts replied that he's proceeded toward this for years, and he likes the salary, the department size and the location, plus the responsibility. He added that he's familiar with budgets of about $400,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked if does the budget now and Mr. Betts said he assisted the Chief and they use line items. Councilman Asting asked if the department is on a first name basis and Mr. Betts said it is on the inside but when presented to the community the title is used. Councilman Asting asked about inspections each day and Mr. Betts said the Sergeants inspect before shifts and the Chief and he redeveloped the department and inspections are held regularly. Councilman Asting asked if there'd be a problem with punishment if the men are on a first name basis and Mr. Betts replied that he would have no problem because his responsibility is to Council and the community. He added that training is necessary and liabilities are because of ignorance on the officer's part. Councilman Asting asked if he'd been in the armed forces and Mr. Betts said no, he married young. -7- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes J u 1 y 6, 1 984 o o Douglas Betts (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Betts said it's functional but has pros and cons and the car becomes a part of the man and he takes good care of it.and expenses are down. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12-hour shifts and Mr. Betts said it's too long and 10 hours should be maximum, with 3 days off as a plus for morale. He added that rEflexes and decision making is down with 12 hours. Councilman Wargo asked what he did prior to Police work and Mr. Betts said he was a contractor. Councilman Asting asked why he left the Highway Patrol in Miami and Mr. Betts replied that he wanted to go back home and he got an extensive program in the Highway Patrol Academy which enables him to train subordinates. Councilwoman Bennington asked when he could start if selected and Mr. Betts said he could be here in two weeks but held like to have about four. Councilman Wargo asked if held ever been arrested and Mr. Betts said he was 25 years ago because of an injury to his brother which he tried to avenge and he was taken down and booked and released and it didn't go to court. Councilman Asting asked his age then and Mr. Betts said he would have been 20 or 21. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Betts said it's the City's being liable for such as a bad intersection that's reported and not taken care of. He added that held been assigned to traffic control before. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Henry Koder, Jr. was the tenth applicant interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if held had any serious illnesses or broken bones and Mr. Koder replied no to each question. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good health and Mr. Koder replied yes. Councilwoman Bennington noted that he's a polygraph instructor and asked why he wants to come here as Chief. Mr. Koder said he lives in Palm Beach County and it's getting too crowded. Councilwoman Bennington asked what his job involves and Mr. Koder said they train people to be polygraph operators. Councilman Wargo asked why he left Jupiter and Mr. Koder said his wife started a new business. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Koder replied he changed all report systems for the Police Department and did budget work and did rules and regulations, plus personnel, equipment and machinery. He added that he's a Detective Lieutenant. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Koder said he just took a short ride through it. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Koder said it's when a Police officer on the road gets intoa problem and shows a definite pattern and no correction is made, they can be sued. Councilman Asting asked why he left the New Jersey State Troopers and Mr. Koder said it was to move to Florida. Councilman Asting asked his rank there and Mr. Koder said he became the senior trooper in charge of the State Police Underwater Recovery units. He added that he was promoted to investigation and then detective. Councilman Asting asked if he was a bodyguard for the governors there and Mr. Koder said he was bodyguard for two of them. Councilman Asting asked how long he was in the military and Mr. Koder said he was in the Air Force for three years and is now in Navy Reserves. Councilwoman Bennington asked about his part-time jobs and Mr. Koder said he does internal security for the hospital. Councilman Wargo asked if held ever been arrested and Mr. Koder replied no. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12-hour shifts and Mr. Koder said he's done it before but it depends on the manpower. Councilv/oman Bennington asked when held be available if selected and Mr. Koder replied it would be within a month. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. Councilman Asting moved to recess for lunch. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Meeting was recessed at 11:50 A.M. -8- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Meeting called back in session by Mayor Ledbetter at 1 :00 P.M. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Present Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Jose' Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Deputy Ci ty Cl erk Wads\'lOrth Excused Excused Excused Present T. J. Quinlan was the eleventh applicant interviewed. Councilman Asting asked the size of the force where he is now and Mr. Quinlan said there are 42 sworn officers. Councilman Asting asked if he's in charge of a shift and Mr. Quinlan said he's in criminal investigation division and handles administrative and internal affairs. Councilman Asting asked if he has any health problems and Mr. Quinlan said no. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had any serious illnesses and Mr. Quinlan said he had a touch of cardiac disease about two years ago and takes medication for it but has returned to full Police duty. Councilman Asting asked if he'd had broken bones and Mr. Quinlan said held had a skull fracture and fist broken a couple of times and these were Police oriented. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Quinlan said he teaches it on a corporate level. Councilman Wargo asked about 12-hour shifts and Mr. Quinlan said theylve experimented with 10-hour shifts and thatls workable but the 12-hour shifts seem to impose a certain amount of tension and fatigue and is usually unsatis- factory. Councilman Wargo asked if he'd ever been arrested and Mr. Quinlan said no. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Quinlan replied that it's a peaceful place with a lack of some crimes. He added that there are four above him where he is now so he has to move away to advance. Councilman Asting asked his military experience and Mr. Quinlan said he was two years away from home in the Army. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Quinlan said itls an imposition in the Statutes and you should have known better than to take the action you did or to allow the action to happen and by allowing it to happen you are liable for any damages of the person who did the act. He added that itls an entity or corporation. Councilman Astingasked if was a paratrooper and Mr. Quinlan replied yes. Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Quinlan replied that any organization has to be managed formally and there has to be a set of rules which are imposed. Councilman Asting asked if it would be on a first name basis and Mr. Quinlan said they do that where he works and the only person called by rank is the Chief, and outsiders are introduced formally. Councilman Asting asked his current salary and Mr. Quinlan said it's $29,000. to $30,000. a year and the coming year will be about $32,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater as Chief and Mr. Quinlan said held get to know the organization and people and their needs. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indian- apolis Plan and Mr. Quinlan said they found it to be effective and it lowers the crime rates and the longevity of the equipment is better. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. Gary Hogeland was the twelfth applicant interviewed. Councilman Asting asked his he's Operations and Councilman Asting asked supervision with the Sheriff's highest rank and Mr. present position at the Space Center and Mr. Hogeland said Maintenance Supervisor at Lockheed Communications Center. his experience in supervision and Mr. Hogeland said he had Department of Brevard County. Councilman Asting asked his Hogeland said it was Sergeant. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Hogeland said he wants to get back in law enforcement and this is a residential community and a gro\'/ing city and held like to raise his family here. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he's certified now and Mr. Hogeland said it's still active and he's a member of the Reserve unit at Indian Harbour Beach Police Department. Councilman Asting asked his present salary and Mr. Hogeland said it's $24,800. Councilman Asting asked if he's in good health and Mr. Hogeland said yes. Councilman Asting asked if held had any serious illnesses or broken bones and Mr. Hogeland replied no to both questions. Councilman Asting asked how many he supervises now and Mr. Hogeland said five. -9- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 o o Gary Hogeland (continued)- Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Hogeland replied it would be a formal basis with divisions for the various functions. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Hogeland said he had the responsibility for planning budgets for the Marine Division for Brevard County. Councilwoman Bennington asked the budget amount and Mr. Hogeland replied it was $15,000. Councilman Asting asked how long he was in the armed forces and Mr. Hogeland said it was four years and he's presently a member of the Coast Guard Reserve at Port Canaveral. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Hogeland replied it's when the supervisor of the subordinate is 1iabile for the actions of the subordinate when they are directed to do something. Councilman Asting asked if he'd ever been arrested or charged with anything and Mr. Hogeland replied no. Councilman Asting asked if he's married with a family and Mr. Hogeland said he's married with four children. Councilman Wargo asked if he drinks or smokes and Mr. Hogeland said he doesn't smoke and it's social drinking only. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to leave the Space Center and Mr. Hogeland replied that law enforcement isn't for the money and he wants back in~the field because he likes it, and he wants to be of servte to the community and the people. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he left law enforcement before and Mr. Hogeland said there was a disagreement with Sheriff Miller. Council- woman Bennington asked if he'd relocate here and Mr. Hogeland replied yes. Councilman Wargo asked when he could start if selected and Mr. Hogeland said it would be about the 20th of August. Councilman Asting asked the salary he would expect and Mr. Hogeland said the $24,000. range. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12-hour shifts and Mr. Hogeland said he worked it and enjoyed it but after 8 hours the efficiency goes down at a rapid rate and he wouldn't want to put anyone in a position that is stressful after 10 or 11 hours working, and he'd be opposed to the 12 hours. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Hogeland said it's good but in a small community it's not practical for budget reasons, but a modified Indianapolis Plan might be adequate. Mayor Ledbetter noted that it seems to work better for the Sheriff's Department than in a municipality. Councilman Wargo asked if he has any skeletons in his closet and Mr. Hogeland replied that he was divorced once and has two children plus stepchildren. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater and Mr. Hogeland said he could bring his experience from a larger law enforcement department plus experience in training and supervision from industry. Mayor Ledbetter asked how many he super- vises and Mr. Hogeland replied five and they have fifteen when they have a classified operation. Councilman Asting asked about inspections and Mr. Hogeland said they're necessary and it should be the shift supervisor who does it with the Chief doing them occasionally. Mr. Hogeland said this would include vehicle, operational, personnel , and records inspections, and he'd make the inspections out in the field where the men are working and some would be at night and unscheduled. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. This concluded the interviews of these twelve applicants. Councilman Asting stated that held rated on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being highest and his first choice with 9 points were: William Sidorn, C. F. Myhr, Douglas Betts, and David Velte. He said 8 points were: Paul Frost, Thomas Wall, and Thomas Watkins, and 7 points were: Craig Humble, Gerald Hytry, Henry Koder, Jr., T. J. Quinlan and Gary Hogeland. He added that William Sidoran is 9+ and is his #1 choice. Councilwoman Bennington stated that William Sidoran is her first choice also. Councilman Wargo listed his choices as William Sidoran for #1, Douglas Betts as #2, and Gary Hogeland as #3. Councilwoman Bennington stated that she likes the idea of William Sidoran having Police and Fire under him. She added that she liked C. F. Myhr but he isnlt certified. Councilman Wargo stated that was why he didn't select C. F. Myhr. Councilwoman Bennington said she also selected Dennis Velte, Thomas Watkins, Douglas Betts, and Gary Hogeland. -10- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes July 6, 1984 . .. . o o .. Mayor Ledbetter stated that he liked Craig Humble, William Sidoran, and Dennis Ve lte. Councilwoman Bennington stated that all of them had picked William Sidoran and she suggested they establish a salary and instruct the City Clerk to call and ask if it's acceptable and go to next choices if he turns it down. She suggested they offer $23,000., and said he might want moving expenses. Mayor Ledbetter noted that this wasn't included in the advertisement. Councilman Wargo suggested they settle on the #2 choice. Councilman Asting suggested Douglas Betts and Councilwoman Bennington and Councilman Wargo agreed. Councilman Wargo suggested Dennis Velte as #3 choice and Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that he wants $26,000. Councilman Wargo agreed that would put him out of the running. Councilman Wargo moved to go back into the Special Meeting. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilwoman Bennington moved that they offer William Sidoran the position of Chief at a figure of $22,500. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion DID NOT CARRY 2-2. Mayor Ledbetter and Councilman Asting voted NO. Councilman Asting stated he voted NO even though they were qualified because Earl Baugh shouldn't have been terminated without giving him a chance. Councilman Asting stated held vote no on all of them because they shouldn't be in the position they are now. Mayor Ledbetter noted that there were qualified people from the second round of interviews and they could go back to those and this list and pick the first, second and third choices from this. Mayor Ledbetter added that Tony Raimondo should be considered for this position. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd consider him but she feels William Sidoran is more qualified. Councilman Wargo said he'd like to hire someone they can expect about 15 years from, and Mayor Ledbetter pointed out there1s no guarantee the man will stay after November's election. Councilman Wargo moved to contact William Sidoran and offer him the $22,000. they adver- tised and go by the process of elimination and if refuses, go to second and third choices. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion DID NOT CARRY 2-2. Mayor Ledbetter and Councilman Asting voted NO. Councilwoman Bennington noted that the City and the Police Department is suffering because they can1t pick a Chief and Councilman Asting pointed out that the problem was created by Council. Councilwoman Bennington moved to adjourn because it couldn't be settled that day. Motion DIED for lack of second. Mayor Ledbetter again suggested they take the three names from today and others and go over applications because they're passing over good applicants. Councilman Wargo moved to adjourn. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 2:10 P.M. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser .Cr~ MAYOR ~ ~/~&il~TX~At' COU CltMAN - ZON ONE '. f ~ ~ fA e UNCILW. AN - ZONE TWO )Ld)rh tq COUNCILMAN JvlONE THREE C/~ COUNCILMAN - ZONE FOUR ATTEST: CITY CLERK 6!J Approved this;lt aay of ,1984. dj., ~--ru~::/C: r~A YOR . !/~ -11- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes J u 1 y 6, 1 984