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06-25-1984 & 06-26-1984 - Special/Workshop , ~ ~ o . ~ . CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP JUNE 25, 1984 MINUTES Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 9:00 A.M. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Present Councilman Jack Spencer Excused Councilman Melbourne Wargo Present City Attorney Jose' Alvarez Excused Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Present City Clerk Connie Kinsey Present Councilman Neil Asting Present Police Chief Ed Overman Excused Mayor Ledbetter stated the purpose of the meeting was to interview applicants for the position of Police Chief and possible appointment of one. He suggested a motion to go into a workshop session and Councilwoman Bennington so moved. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Gene C. Johnson was the first applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if he is presently employed and Mr. Johnson said he has an investigative firm in Deland. Councilman Asting asked if he had executive experience and Mr. Johnson said the last seven years he was number two in Deland Police Department and commanded 30 officers plus personnel, budgeting, purchasing, etc. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief in Edgewater and Mr. Johnson said he made a mistake when he left Deland to start the investigative agency and he's prepared to have a chiefexecutive's job. Mr. Johnson added that he wouldn't have to move from Deland for this position, but he could move here and he has his home listed for sale now. Councilman Asting asked the salary expected and Mr. Johnson said the salary isn't the only determining factor and the advertisement said low 20's and that's what he expected. He added that he wouldn't expect to get more than other department heads who have been here for years. Councilwoman Bennington asked what form of govern- ment they have and Mr. Johnson said it's the strong Mayor and Council form of government with an administrator, which would be an appointed position. Councilwoman Bennington asked the biggest problem in law enforcement and Mr. Johnson said from reading the news- papers and word of mouth he expects there's a morale problem and a sense of uncertainty with respect to where they're going. Councilwoman Bennington asked what his policy would be and how held run the department and set it up if he's selected. Mr. Johnson said the organizational structure won't vary too much from what they have now with emphasis on restoring public support of the Police Department. He added that communi- cation would be needed between the Council and the public and the civic organizations to determine the type of law enforcement agency they want, and then they could train the officers to function in that way. Councilman Asting asked if inspections are necessary of officers going out on shifts and if night inspections are in order or just trust it to the officer in charge. Mr. Johnson said his trust comes hard and if an officer is promoted you have to have his confidence and give him respect also. He added that he'll be a working Chief and daily inspections are in order, but they may be informal. Councilman Asting asked if he'd have unscheduled night inspections and Mr. Johnson replied absolutely. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Johnson said for the past seven years he and Chief Slaughter took care of the budget but he didn't do it entirely on his own. He added that it's difficult to plan ahead for a year's expenditures and revenues and it's a common practice to ask for more but he asks for exactly what they need and doesn't inflate the budget. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Johnson said itls primarily the liability that a chief executive or person in responsibility has placed on him because of the actions of his employees or subordinates. Councilman Asting asked if our insurance covers this and City Clerk Kinsey said it does. r '-J o Gene Johnson (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked if he smokes and drinks. Mr. Johnson said yes, but hels going to quit smoking. Councilman Wargo asked if he has plans for a juvenile division. Mr. Johnson replied it would depend on the personnel they have, but there would be a strong emphasis on juvenile behavior. He added that hels a strong advocate of school liaison programs. Councilman Wargo asked about 12 hour shifts. Mr. Johnson said hels never worked 12 hours but it would be good for morale for 2 days off and 2 days on but held research the fatigue factor. Councilman Wargo asked his opinion of the Indianapolis Plan and personal use of City vehicles and equipment. Mr. Johnson said the plan is probably very good if the municipality can afford to buy a car for every officer but he feels personal use of government equipment goes against everything government stands for, and therels a possibility of abuse and the liability factor comes into place. He added that held have to research it thoroughly. Mayor Ledbetter asked if held be a working Chief or an 8 to 4 Chief. Mr. Johnson replied that the badge stays with him 24 hours a day and the Chiefls job is 24 hours a day. He added that he canlt run the organization sitting in the office. Mayor Ledbetter asked under what circumstances held pull a second Police car off the road and Mr. Johnson replied that he doesn't believe they need two men in one car and a large part of Police work is visibility and two cars would deter crime. There was a discussion regarding recently hired patrolmen and only one car being on the road, and the amount of time needed to train a new employee to be on the street alone. Mr. Johnson stated that there would probably be officers on the midnight shift and held prefer to train on that shift as therels more action on day shift with mostly property crimes at night. He added that the Chief can come in and work a shift if theylre short of personnel. Councilman Wargo asked when he could start if hired and Mr. Johnson replied anytime after tomorrow as he has his own agency and can close it when he wants. Councilwoman Bennington asked if's familiar with the Tucker audit report and Mr. Johnson said he is not,but he knew one was conducted. Councilwoman Bennington noted that they want the Chief to implement the findings on this. Mr. Johnson said he knows the reputation of Mr. Tucker so he feels it would be a definite plus and there may be something he canlt live with but he feels it might be straight down the line. Councilman Asting noted that he'd have to go through a probationary period and Mr. Johnson said he agreed. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. Theo L. Harris was the second applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if he planned to move to this area if selected and Mr. Harris said he would. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief in Edgewater. Mr. Harris said he was retired from Tallahassee and has been Chief in Mexico Beach for 4 years and this is a challenge ofa larger town. He added that he has three Policemen besides himself on the force, plus an auxiliary. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he knows anything about Edgewater and Mr. Harris replied he does not. Councilwoman Bennington asked what policies held use to set up the department and Mr. Harris replied that held study it as it is now and make a decision. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Harris said his budget was about $92,000. and he did it alone. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with the Tucker audit report and Mr. Harris said he worked with Mr. Tucker in Tallahassee for about a year. Councilman Asting asked his salary expectations and Mr. Harris replied that the adver- tisement said low 20's so held expect about $24,000. Councilman Wargo asked what he did prior to 1953 and Mr. Harris said he worked for 3 years in an automobile rebuilding business and was in the Navy for 4 years before that. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could offer Edgewater as their Chief and Mr. Harris said he feels he can be an asset based on past experience. Councilman Asting asked if he operates a department on a formal or informal basis, such as inspections. Mr. Harris said they have monthly inspections of officers and auxiliary for cleanliness and weapons and vehicles. Councilman Asting asked how many Police cars they have and Mr. Harris said there are two marked and one unmarked car. -2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o Theo L. Harris (continued)- Mayor Ledbetter asked if he operated on 8 or 12 hours and Mr. Harris replied that it's 42 hours per week with some 12, some 9, and some 7 hour days. Mayor Ledbetter asked his thoughts on auxiliary Police used as a backup or rides in a car when on duty. Mr. Harris said the auxiliary rides with the on-duty Police officer and he hired 5 men from the auxiliary and held like to implement this if he's hired. Councilman Asting asked if held move to Edgewater and Mr. Harris said he has a house in Tallahassee and Mexico Beach and held sell the one in Mexico Beach and move. He added that held like a minimum of three weeks' notice. Councilman Asting pointed out that there would be a probationary period and Mr. Harris agreed. Mr. Harris said after the probationary period held sell his house and move here, and he wanted to give two week's notice at Mexico Beach and then would need a week to prepare for the move. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he plans to draw future manpower from auxiliary and Mr. Harris said yes and he feels it's a good idea. Mayor Ledbetter asked how he imple- ments the auxiliary and Mr. Harris said they paid for the first training and then put him on duty while he goes to school for the additional training, and it's paid for with the fines, etc. funds. Mayor Ledbetter asked the number of hours required by the State now and Mr. Harris said he thinks it's 320 hours and the auxiliary works only under the direct supervision of a sworn Police officer. Councilwoman Bennington asked about insurance and Mr. Harris said the insurance covered them with no additional charge. Councilwoman Bennington asked his biggest crime problem in Mexico Beach and Mr. Harris said theylve never had an armed robbery but have had some burglaries and one abduction, plus the normal DWlls, domestic problems, and fights at bars. Councilman Wargo asked if he drinks or smokes. Mr. Harris said he drinks occasionally but he doesnlt smoke. Councilman Wargo asked if he has children at home and Mr. Harris said theylre both married and gone. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Michael Kelly was the third applicant to be interviewed. He distributed copies of letters of recommendation for Council IS review. Councilwoman Bennington asked the population in Eagle Lake and Mr. Kelly said it's 2,500. Councilman Wargo asked how many officers he has and Mr. Kelly said he has 5 full time and 4 volunteer fully certified officers and 3 auxiliaries. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief in Edgewater and Mr. Kelly said it's a progressive town and larger than he has and he wants somewhere to settle down so he doesn't have to move on for lack of benefits. Councilwoman Bennington asked if hels familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Kelly replied a little bit. Council- woman Bennington asked the form of government and Mr. Kelly said it's Council form. Councilman Asting asked his salary expected and Mr. Kelly said low 20's was in the papers so he interprets it to be about $23,000. Councilman Asting noted that held be on a probationary period and Mr. Kelly said he expected that. Councilman Asting asked if held move to this area and Mr. Kelly replied that the Chief has to be a part of a community and held move as soon as possible. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Kelly said he'd worked with budgets and it was $121,000. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Kelly said it's liability taken upon himself from lack of training for the individual Police officers and if they aren't trained or trained right, the liability comes back on him. Councilwoman Bennington asked if it stops at him and Mr. Kelly said it could come back to Council. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with the Tucker audit report and Mr. Kelly said held heard about it but doesnlt know the details. Councilwoman Bennington noted that they would expect the Chief to implement the report and asked if he would have a problem with that even if he disagreed. Mr. Kelly said that working toward a set procedure would be easier than setting up his own policies. -3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o Michael Kelly (continued)- Councilwoman Bennington asked his past policies and theories to organize a department. Mr. Kelly said he has a patrol sergeant and three full-time officers plus a part-time sergeant and six part-time people. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do as Chief for Edgewater. Mr. Kelly said he imple- mented several programs in Eagle Lake and the City disbanded the Police Department and then brought it back. He added that he organized a neighborhood crime watch program, a senior citizensl volunteer program, an explorer post for ages 15 to 20, and junior police program for children 10 to 15 years of age. He said they tried to get everyone in the community involved in the Police Department, and the number of cases solved has gone way up. Mayor Ledbetter asked how long held been Chief and Mr. Kelly replied itls been about one and one-half years. and he made his way up from patrolman there. Mayor Ledbetter asked how long he's been a certified officer in Florida and Mr. Kelly said about two years and he started out in New York. Councilwoman Bennington asked how many years held been in law enforcement and Mr. Kelly replied it's been about six years. Councilman Wargo asked what he did before he was at Eagle Lake and Mr. Kelly said he worked as a deputy sheriff, and was an investigator of navigation patrol in New York. Councilman Wargo asked when he gradu- ated from high school and Mr. Kelly said it was in 1977. Councilman Wargo asked if he has children and Mr. Kelly replied he does not but he's married and his wife is a teacher and can relocate to this area. Councilwoman Bennington asked when held be available if he were selected and Mr. Kelly said he could start the next day and held discussed this with his City Manager and she was very receptive to the idea. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. There was a short recess in the meeting while awaiting the next applicant. Tony Raimondo was the fourth applicant to be interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Raimondo said hels retired but isnlt adapting well to retirement and has been the number two man for a number of years and would like to be number one. He added that the situation here is a challenge and he was a troubleshooter for his department Councilman Asting asked the salary expected and Mr. Raimondo said he wasn't concerned about salary but he was told it was $18,500. and then it was advertised in the low 201s. He added that he feels he can solve the problem here. Councilman Asting noted that there would be a probationary period of 60 to 90 days and Mr. Raimondo said it wouldnlt be a problem. Mr. Raimondo said he doesnlt plan to go anywhere else and he owns a home here. Councilwoman Bennington asked how long hels lived in this area and Mr. Raimondo said itls been 8 or 9 years and commuted back and forth to Miami before retiring. Councilwoman Bennington asked the form of government here and Mr. Raimondo said itls City Manager. Councilwoman Bennington asked the biggest problem in law enforc- ment here and Mr. Raimondo said it appears the officers aren't adequately trained. Councilwoman Bennington asked what his organizational policy would be and Mr. Raimondo replied that the chain of command would have to be observed and added that he had a part in writing rules and regulations for his department and would check these here to see if he was satisfied with them. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department on an informal or formal basis and Mr. Raimondo said it would be formal. Councilman Asting asked if held conduct inspections of shifts during hours of operation and Mr. Raimondo said yes, and he added that he'd expect his hours to be 8 to 4 with some flexibility and would plan to be there during the changing of the shifts and be out on the streets at night sometimes. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Raimondo said he did the budget for his unit and the criminal investigation division and showed a $20,000. profit due to establishing a volunteer program which saved the cost of an employee for that work. Councilwoman Bennington asked if hels familiar with the Tucker audit report and Mr. Raimondo said held heard about it but wasn't familiar with it. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he'd implement it even if he disagreed with it and Mr. Raimondo said held call for personnel jackets and do his own evaluations and then have a person to person evalu- ation. Councilwoman Bennington noted that the audit was done and it's not an individual evaluation but is overall and they expect the Chief to implement it as it is and to follow the guidelines. Mr. Raimondo replied that if Council has made that determination, then the Chief would have no choice but to do that whether he agreed or disageed. He added that people here are expected to work in a multi-capacity because of the limited number. -4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o Tony Raimondo (continued)- Councilwoman Bennington asked the definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Raimondo said he didn't know. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater and Mr. Raimondo said his objective would be to provide total effectiveness and proficiency that would serve the people of Edgewater. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis plan and Mr. Raimondo said he's not familiar with that plan. Councilman Wargo explained it's where the Police officers take the cars home at night. Mr. Raimondo said he had a take home policy for awhile but it was ended but there are some things to be gained from it as it may be a deterrent to crime in that neighborhood. Councilman Wargo asked about the 12 hour shifts and Mr. Raimondo replied that it would be one of the first things he'd look at after evaluations but he's having trouble accepting it because 6PM to 6AM is a long time to be awake. He noted that the Highway Patrol has done this for years. Councilman Asting asked how he came to this area and Mr. Raimondo said he was attracted by Riverside Drive. Councilman Asting asked how soon he could start if selected and Mr. Raimondo said any time. Mayor Ledbetter read from parts of the Tucker audit and noted that it should have been made available to those being interviewed. Mayor Ledbetter asked his MOS in the Air Force and Mr. Raimondo said he was Senior Air Police Sergeant. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. James Kolbinskie was the fifth applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked the salary he expects and Mr. Kolbinskie said it's negotiable and he's making $14,000. now. Councilwoman Bennington asked his current position and Mr. Kolbinskie said he's a patrol officer in Apopka and is attending Rollins College. Councilman Asting asked how much time held need before assuming the position if selected and Mr. Kolbinskie replied that he would take it as soon as offered. Councilman Asting pointed out that there would be a probationary period and Mr. Kolbinskie agreed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief and Mr. Kolbinskie said he was impressed by the community and the people and law enforcement is his life and he misses being Chief. Councilwoman Bennington asked the form of government here and Mr. Kolbinskie said it's Mayor and City Council. Councilwoman Bennington asked what Edgewater's law enforcement's biggest problem is and Mr. Kolbinskie said held have to study it. Council- woman Bennington asked how held run the department and what kind of policies held set up. Mr. Kolbinskie replied that held have to study the present policies. Councilwoman Bennington asked the chain of command in Lady Lake and Mr. Kolbinskie said the Police Department took their orders from the Mayor and Council. Councilwoman Bennington asked how many officers he has and Mr. Kolbinksie replied there were five regular and three reserve officers. Councilman Asting asked the population there and Mr. Kolbinskie said it's 2,000. Councilman Asting asked if he ran a formal or informal department and Mr. Kolbinskie said it was informal due to the size and he was a working Chief and inspected every day. Councilman Asting asked how often he inspected activities and Mr. Kolbinskie said once a day and he tried to inspect night~ shift on a monthly basis. Councilwoman Bennington noted that held made a lot of changes. Mr. Kolbinskie said he came to Florida due to a family illness and another change was due to divorce. Council- woman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Kolbinksie said it was pretty good on line items and he allocated fuel and oersonnel and figured costs. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious laibility and Mr. Kolbinskie said it's the chain of command in a Police agency that runs from the officer who performs the act in violation and goes to Mayor and Council. Councilman Asting asked why he left the Marines after 17 years and Mr. Kolbinskie said he had a leg shot up in Viet Nam and couldn't lead combat troops any longer. Councilman Asting asked if he draws a disability and Mr. Kolbinskie said it's 30% but doesn't hinder his abilities. Councilman Asting asked if he had an honorable discharge and Mr. Kolbinskie said yes. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he knew about the Tucker audit report and Mr. Kolbinskie said no. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater and Mr. Kolbinskie said he can do an intelligent determination of where the Police Department is now and can attempt to improve. -5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o James Kolbinskie (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked his feelings on 12-hour shifts and Mr. Kolbinskie replied that he wasn't familiar with 12 hours but was with 10 hours. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and private use of automobiles. Mr. Kolbinskie said if done properly there would be a cost savings but they have to be careful of the guidelines. Mayor Ledbetter asked how there could be a savings if the City still maintains the vehicles and Mr. Kolbinskie said that Monroe County is still using the plan and it apparently saves them. Councilwoman Bennington asked when held be available to start if selected and Mr. Kolbinskie replied that held need two weeks. Councilman Wargo asked about training programs and Mr. Kolbinskie said he's extremely in favor of them for Police training and community relations. Mayor Ledbetter thanked Mr. Kolbinskie for coming for the interview and Mr. Kolbinskie read from a list of requirements for the position and said he felt he could do a good job for Edgewater. Chester Kowalksi was the 6th applicant to be interviewed. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief here and Mr. Kowalski<< said he wants to move from South Florida and with 17 years of law enforcement and a former Chief he has the education and back- ground to serve here. Councilman Asting asked his expected salary and Mr. Kowalski said the advertisement was low 20ls and he would think $24,000. on down. Councilman Asting noted that there would be a probationary period for 60 to 90 days and Mr. Kowalski said he understood that. Mr. Kowalski said held be willing to move to the Edgewater area. Councilwoman Bennington asked how soon held be available and Mr. Kowalski said within a two-week period with the understanding that until his wife moves here, held be travelling home on week-ends. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with our area and Mr. Kowalksi replied he is not but is looking for an area away from South Florida, and this looks like a growing community. Councilman Asting asked about his instructor's position and Mr. Kowalksi said he's an instructor with Broward Community College. Councilman Asting noted that he was Chief of the Seminole tribe and Mr. Kowalski stated that the Seminole Indians in South Florida were dissatisfied with the local service from Sheriff's and other agencies and asked for their own law enforcement agency and he was hired in June of 1981 to establish a non-existing department and he worked there for 2t years. He added that the State laws are enforced there. Mayor Ledbetter asked if he was hired under a Federal program and Mr. Kowalksi said it was tribal funds only. Councilman Asting asked if held trained a Chief and Mr. Kowalskie said he had and the concept was that eventually the people would take over the Police Department. Councilman Asting asked why he left there and Mr. Kowalski said he came to philosophy differences and he goes by the books. Councilwoman Bennington asked how held run the Police Department and Mr. Kowalski said he didn't know the organizational structure but his concern would be that the officers would be highly trained and his main goal would be to serve the public. Councilwoman Bennington asked the form of government here and Mr. Kowalski said itls strong Council form with a City Administrator. Councilwoman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Kowalski said he had many years of budget experience in the City of Fort Lauderdale and with the Seminole Tribe, and they were line item budgets. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Kowalski said itls the liability for everyone from the sergeant to the Mayor and Council for the actions of a Police officer and they can~be sued. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater and Mr. Kowalski said hels people oriented and wants to provide better service to the public and after reviewing crime statistics he could afford a lower crime rate and higher clearance rate. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department in a formal or informal manner and Mr. Kowalski said Police Departments are semi-military. There was a discussion regarding the term semi-military and quasi. Councilman Wargo asked about 12-hour shifts and Mr. Kowalski said Pompano Beach uses those hours and the results of a study have been favorable and the officers enjoy more free time and he has no problem with it. Councilman Wargo asked if he~s aware of the government reports on effectiveness after 10 or 12 hours and Mr. Kowalski said the effectiveness stops at 12 hours. Councilman Wargo asked if held implement a training program during the shifts and Mr. Kowalski said held try to do it during the shifts as a cost measure. -6- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o Chester Kowalski (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked his feelings on the Indianapolis plan and Mr. Kowalski said if the City can afford it, he'd be in favor of it, and if the individual lives in the City limits. He added that it's a good plan and the community gets better coverage if it's not abused by an officer. Councilman Wargo asked about converting public property to private use and Mr. Kowalski said it's based on rules and regulations and enforcement of them and he had no problems with disciplining someone that violates the sanctions. Councilman Wargo asked if he felt the Chief should wear a uniform or plain clothes. Mr. Kowalski replied that in this community he'd wear a uniform with optional dress according to what he has to do that day. Councilman Wargo asked about employment of minorities and women. Mr. Kowalski said he has no problem with either if they can do the job. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Larry Westfall was the seventh applicant to be interviewed. Sergeant Westfall distributed copies of a memo to City Clerk Kinsey dated June 25th in which he withdrew his candidacy as Police Chief. Mr. Westfall said he'd talked with a number of people in regard to his present position and he respects each Council member for the positive things theylve done and their support. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they accept his withdrawal. Mr. Westfall said he will assist in any way he can with any assignment given. Councilman Asting moved to recess the Workshop until 1 :00 P.M. Mayor Ledbetter suggested they contact the auditor to have him present for a review of the money situation since they'll be using unappropriated money for the salary. Councilman Asting agreed. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Meeting was recessed at 11:35 A.M. Mayor Ledbetter called the Workshop back in session at 1:00 P.M. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Present Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Jose' Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Police Chief Ed Overman Excused Excused Present Excused John Van Tronk was the eighth applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if he's presently employed and Mr. Van Tronk said he's been employed by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement since 1973. Councilman Asting asked if held retired from Daytona Beach Police Department and Mr. Van Tronk said he was. Councilman Asting asked if he'd relocate to this area from Casselberry and Mr. Van Tronk said he would. Councilman Asting asked his expected salary and Mr. Van Tronk said the advertisement listed low 20's and he'd expect mid 20's as the relocation would have expenses involved. Councilman Asting asked if held manage the department on a formal or informal basis and Mr. Van Tronk said he's used formal but not to the point of overriding. Councilman Asting asked about uniforms and appearance and Mr. Van Tronk said each man should have pride in his appearance and his equipment. Councilman Astin~ asked how soon he'd be available to start if selected and Mr. Van Tronk said he has a commitment in July which would make it late July or early August. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief. Mr. Van Tronk said he's been in law enforcement since 1949 and he'd like to get a place to retire and work at a good job and he'd like a smaller home and smaller community as held retire in that area. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he's familiar with Edgewater and Mr. Van Tronk said he is briefly, from having lived in Volusia County. Councilwoman Bennington asked the form of government and Mr. Van Tronk said itls Mayor-Commission. Councilwoman Bennington asked his policies for running the department and Mr. Van Tronk said he must be know- ledgable and personal with each man in the department and show them respect. Council- woman Bennington asked his budget experience and Mr. Van Tronk replied that in Daytona Beach he assisted with the budget as Captain of Detectives. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Van Tronk replied that it's anything a patrolman does that he or the Council is responsible for and he must have proper training to avoid this. Councilwoman Bennington asked if he'd heard about the Tucker audit report and Mr. Van Tronk said he was aware of the report but hadn't got into details. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could give the City as Chief. Mr. Van Tronk said the City needs a Chief to represent them to the public and his forte has been public relations and community relations, and he felt he could serve and protect them. -7- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o John Van Tronk (continued) - Councilman Wargo asked about 12 hour shifts and Mr. Van Tronk said held never worked under that. Councilman Wargo asked about the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Van Tronk said it's overkill in a small department and is nice if they can afford a car for every policeman to take home. Councilman Wargo asked if it would create problems with other City employees and Mr. Van Tronk said it does. Councilman Wargo asked if he's been involved with motorcycle patrols and Mr. Van Tronk said he's been one but it wouldn't be effective here as it's used mostly for crowd control at the races or beach. Councilman Wargo asked about cadet and auxiliary programs and Mr. Van Tronk said he likes both of them and he also had an explorer scout program which was very effective. Councilman Wargo asked if our small Police force would be a challenge and Mr. Van Tronk said yes and he knows other agencies that would be available in case help is needed, and he's look for a place to retire eventually. Councilman Wargo said he didn't want someone to retire on them. Mayor Ledbetter said he'd known about Mr. Van Tronk for a number of years and held given some good answers, and he thanked him for coming. David Johnson was the ninth, and last, applicant to be interviewed. Councilman Asting asked if he's employed currently by Lake County and Mr. Johnson replied yes, he's a Lieutenant with the Sheriff's Department. Councilman Asting asked what salary he expects and Mr. Johnson said hels making $17,000. now and held like something appropri- ate to the job, and couldnlt take a cut below that. Councilman Asting asked him about relocating to this area and Mr. Johnson said it wouldn't be a problem. Councilman Asting asked when he could start here if selected and Mr. Johnson replied he'd be available within two weeks. Councilman Asting asked if he'd manage the department in a formal or informal manner and Mr. Johnson said he isn't that familiar with the operation here. Councilman Asting noted that there are 14 patrolmen and four shifts and a sergeant on each shift. Mr. Johnson said they'll have to go formal with a department that size or move into it very soon. Councilman Asting asked what inspections he'd conduct primary inspections and on the road inspections but he doesnlt want them regimented to know when they're coming. He added that he would have a formal inspection every six months also. Councilman Asting asked how many men he supervises now and Mr. Johnson replied there are nine. Councilman Asting asked if there should be an inspection at the start of each shift and Mr. Johnson said the shift commander should do it during briefing and the Chief should come in occasionally and observe to see that standards are kept up. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief and Mr. Johnson said it's a challenge as he's never been Chief before and held like to improve what's here and work with Council. Councilman Asting asked if he's married and Mr. Johnson replied that he is and they have grown children. Councilwoman Bennington asked his: budget experience, and Mr. Johnson said he's had experience with division commanders and as training and community services officer he observed the planning and then implemented it. Councilman Asting asked how he'd prepare the budget here and Mr. Johnson said he'd get the records from previously and have a discussion with Council to see their goals and objectives. Councilman Asting asked what format he'd use and Mr. Johnson said he'd break it down by division as to their needs. Councilwoman Bennington asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Johnson said it's anytime you're going to jeopardize someone else, it's that which you might impose on some unnecessarily, and it's the most important factor in law enforcement. Councilwoman Bennington asked what he could do for Edgewater as Chief and Mr. Johnson said he feels he can bring integrity, look of professionalism, an attitude among officers of good morale, a professional outlook and profile, and pride amongst the Council of the quality of the Department and he feels he has the knowledge, ability, and motivation to do that. Councilman Wargo asked what he did prior to 1966 and Mr. Johnson said he was in high school. Councilman Wargo asked his thoughts of the Indianapolis Plan and Mr. Johnson said he worked under it since 1972 and he feels the advantages are that the officer will take better care of something that's assigned to him and the cars will last longer. Councilman Asting asked about occasional personal use and Mr. Johnson said itls different in the County where he is as the officers are allowed to use the cars infueir own juris- diction. Councilman Wargo asked about high speed chase and Mr. Johnson said it should be gauged by the crime committed. and probable cause has to be taken into consideration. Councilman Wargo asked about a patrolman assisting an elderly person and Mr. Johnson said their officers are told to assist if it becomes necessary as it's part of the public service. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming to the interview. -8- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o There was a short recess at 1:45 P.M. while the City Clerk left to telephone the. auditors. Workshop returned in session at 1 :49 P.M. There was a discussion about the applicants' qualifications. Councilman Asting said he did a rating system of 1 to 10 and came up with four he felt were impressive. He read the names of those four: Gene Johnson, Chester Kowalski, John Van Tronk, and David Johnson. Councilman Wargo read his list of first through fourth choices as: Gene Johnson, John Van Tronk, Chester Kowalski, and James Kolbinskie. Councilman Asting agreed that Gene Johnson would also be his first choice. Mayor Ledbetter stated he had a problem with the salary of $18,500. going to $25,500. but he'd go along with another $1,500. to $20,000. Councilman Wargo suggested a salary of $19,000. for six months pro- bation and then give him $1,000. more then. Councilwoman Bennington said they need reference checks and background information on them and Councilman Asting pointed out that they wouldn't have a Chief after the 27th. Mayor Ledbetter noted that there are two shifts with a sergent on each shift and that sergeant could be solely responsible for that shift with a member of Councilor someone that he could answer to at the direction of Council. Councilman Wargo suggested with the four sergeants they rotate it and give him the replacement salary of Chief at the time he's in charge, and that should avoid hard feelings in the department. Mayor Ledbetter suggested they appoint someone on Council for the sergeants to answer to. Councilwoman Bennington suggested using Altamonte Springs for help with the background investigations. Councilman Wargo noted that they have the six months probationary /.period. Councilwoman Bennington suggested interviewing the top four again and negotiate. v~uncilman Asting pointed out that they can dismiss him if he proves unsatisfactory during the probationary period. Councilwoman Bennington stated that Gene Johnson was at the top of her list. City Clerk Kinsey suggested that someone check the personnel files of the last places of employment for the top choices. Mayor Ledbetter stated that he narrowed his list down to Gene Johnson, Tony Raimondo, and John Van Tronk. Councilman Asting suggested they designate the City Clerk to go to Deland to look at Gene Johnson's personnel files. Mayor Ledbetter suggested they go to other places in the area besides just the Police Department. Mayor Ledbetter suggested narrowing it down to three and calling them back. Councilman Wargo noted that Gene Johnson and John Van Tronk were selected by three of them. Councilwoman Bennington said she was impressed with David Johnson also, and agreed with Chester Kowalski as a choice. She suggested Gene Johnson, John Van Tronk and Chester Kowalski be considered. Councilman Asting pointed out that John Van Tronk's salary requirement is high. Councilman Asting noted that he was impressed with David Shaver in an earlier interview. Councilman Asting moved to go back into the Special Meeting. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Asting said he'd like to talk to Gene Johnson again and see what terms they can come to and if it's agreeable they can hire him on a probationary period for 60 or 90 days and observe him at work and do a background check in the meantime. Councilman Wargo pointed out that Mr. Johnson has no big obligation where it would be a loss of finances if it didn't work out. Councilman Asting moved that the City Clerk set up an interview with Gene Johnson for the purpose of discussing terms for his employment as Police Chief of Edgewater. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. It was agreed to recess this meeting until 10:00AM on Tuesday, June 26, 1984. Councilwoman Bennington clarified that she is voting on this motion but doesn't want to limit the interviews to one. Councilman Asting said they can go to other choices if it doesn't work out. Motion CARRIED 4-0. There was a short recess at 2:20 PM while awaiting the auditor's arrival. Mr. Alex Kish, from the auditing firm of Brent Millikan & Co., arrived at the 2:45 PM and Mayor Ledbetter called the meeting back in session. -9- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes June 25, 1984 o o Mayor Ledbetter asked Mr. Kish how they can handle the increase in salary since it was budgeted at $18,500. this year and this would be unappropriated money. Mr. Kish noted that the salary is listed as a total amount and they can make adjustments and the main point is to stay within the total budgeted. He added that it's from a manage- ment standpoint that they allocated the exact amounts per position but the auditors look at the total picture and he wouldn't consider it a violation of Florida Statutes. He said the penalty from an auditing standpoint is just that it's mentioned in the report. There was a review of the total appropriated and amount spent at eight months into the year. Mr. Kish cautioned that they take into consideration that there might be heavy overtime yet during the vacation season. City Clerk Kinsey noted that they've already had high overtime because of the low number of personnel. Mr. Kish stated that Council can make the decision but from the auditors'standpoint, they just shouldn't exceed the total appropriations for that department for the fiscal twelve-month period. Councilman Asting asked if they have to reappropriate from the Lieutenant's position to the Chief's and Mr. Kish said if they feel that was their intent, they can do it. Councilman Wargo noted that they're $17,000. under what they budgeted. Mayor Ledbetter said he didn't want this Council accused of tampering with the money and there was a motion of intent for a Deputy Chief and money was pledged for it. Council- man Asting suggested they reappropriate. Councilwoman Bennington said they can change the motion of intent to pledge the Deputy Chief to Police Chief. City Clerk Kinsey noted that the salaries aren't spelled out in the ordinance and they can adjust line items in house and it can be done administratively, and has been done this way for years. Mr. Kish pointed out that the only way to amend the budget is with public hearings and advertising, but they can change within the department as long as they don't change the total amount. Councilwoman Bennington asked if it .is a problem offering the position at a higher salary than budgeted for and Mr. Kish said he wasn't sure from a legal stand- point and suggested they contact the City Attorney on this. Mr. Kish added that held look at the Charter regarding line items. Mayor Ledbetter said he'd received telephone calls on the situation and he's trying to protect the Council. Councilman Asting moved to recess the Special Meeting until 10:00 AM on Tuesday morning, the 26th. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Mayor Ledbetter asked Mr. Kish to give them something in writing regarding the guidelines. Councilman Asting asked that the City Attorney be present at the next day's meeting and Councilwoman Bennington agreed. Meeting was recessed at 3:16 P.M. CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER RECESSED MEETING - JUNE 26,1984 MINUTES Mayor Ledbetter called the recessed meeting to order at 10:00 A.M. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Present Councilman Jack Soencer Excused Councilman Melbourne Wargo Excused City Attorney Jose' Alvarez Excused Council~/oman Gigi Bennington Excused City Clerk Connie Kinsey Present Councilman Neil Asting Present Police Chief Ed Overman Excused Also present was Mr. Gene Johnson, an applicant for the Police Chief position. Mayor Ledbetter stated that due to lack of quorum they will recess the meeting until 10:00 A.M on Wednesday, June 27, 1984 and he asked that the City Attorney review the application of Gene Johnson for a written report to Council. Meeting was adjourned due to lack of quorum at 10:02 A.M. Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes -10- June 25, 1984 and Council Recessed Meeting Minutes June 26, 1984