05-16-1984 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING & WORKSHOP
1'-1J\ Y 16, 1 984
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at lO:OOAM
in the Community Center. He stated the purpose of the meeting was to interview
the applicants for the position of Police Chief.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman Jack Spencer
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Ed Overman
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Mr. David Shaver was the first applicant to be interviewed. Mayor Ledbetter intro-
duced him to the Council members. Councilwoman Bennington moved to go into a
workshop session. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Spencer asked the highest rank held by Mr. Shaver and he said Detective
with the Metro-Dade Police Department and he's assigned to the general investigative
unit. Councilman Spencer asked his knowledge of Edgewater and Mr. Shaver said he
had very little knowledge but had driven through it the night before and had sub-
scribed to a local paper but had only received one copy. Councilman Spencer asked
if held ever lived in a small community and Mr. Shaver said he had and was born
and raised in Homestead. Mr. Shaver noted that held gone into private business for
awhile but missed police work and went back into it and has been with Metro-Dade
since 1980. Councilman Spencer asked his opinion of the importance of written Police
policies. Mr. Shaver said it sets a guideline so the department and officers know
what's expected of them and what they have to live up to.
Councilwoman Bennington asked his experience working with budgets and Mr. Shaver
said he had very little but had 16 years in Air Force Reserves and during the last
6 years he's helped prepare the budget for the medical administration section.
He said he'd prepared a small budget with four employees in Alachua. Councilwoman
Bennington asked what management experience he has and Mr. Shaver said he's been a
training officer in uniform and detective bureau taught roll call training but
the most supervised at one time was three. He added that he feels he can supervise
people and has a good personality and can get along with people. Councilwoman
Bennington asked his knowledge of vicarious liability and Mr. Shaver said he feels
it's the liability that the officer or employees would have in relationship to
their job and the City government's liability as to what they're doing during their
working time. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to come to Edgewater and
Mr. Shaver said Dade County isn't a good place to raise children and there isn't
much chance of advancement at Metro-Dade, plus he'd like to expand his law enforcement
career to a different degree.
Councilman Asting asked his salary expectations and Mr. Shaver said he was told it's
$22,000.00 and is currently making $27,000.00 but has his children in a private school
that costs $3,000.00 a year so held be saving that. He said he understands the
position includes fringe benefits and medical insurance which he's paying for now,
and there's a car available so he could sell one car and save on the insurance there.
Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that there's an election in November and the Police
Chief works for Council so there's no guarantee that held have a job if a new
Council is elected. Mr. Shaver said he took that into consideration.
Councilman Spencer asked his attitude toward working for or over women or minority
groups or blacks. Mr. Shaver said he has never been accused of being a racist and
would have no problem with working for women, with women, or instructing women. He
added that his partner is a Cuban.
Mayor Ledbetter asked how long he's been in Police work and Mr. Shaver said it's
been 12 years. Mr. Shaver pointed out that he's only applied for this position
and doesn't think of this as a stepping stone to something else.
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Interview with Mr. David Shaver (continued)-
Councilman Asting asked if he's presently employed and Mr. Shaver said yes. Council-
woman Bennington asked how soon he could start if he's selected and Mr. Shaver said
he is currently doing an investigation he's been working on almost a year and it
will involve 300 subjects being arrested and is scheduled for June 4th so he could
accept after the 4th or June 11th. He added that he feels it's important to finish
this investigation. Mayor Ledbetter thanked Mr. Shaver for coming for the interview.
Councilman Wargo pointed out that the $22,000.00 salary would be about $28,308. with
fringe benefits and that doesn't include the incentive pay. Mayor Ledbetter called
a recess until the next applicant arrived.
Workshop returned in session. Mr. Joseph Roder was the next applicant to be inter-
viewed. Mayor Ledbetter introduced the Council members.
Councilman Spencer asked his experience with a municipal Police Department and
Mr. Roder said it was 11 years with 9t of those in New Jersey and over a year in
Winter Park. Councilman Spencer asked his knowledge of Edgewater and Mr. Roder
said held arrested people in this community and dealt with officers here and
is familiar with the size and some of the problems he's heard about. Councilman
Spencer asked his opinion of the major functions of the Police Department and
Mr. Roder said he should be a leader and see to the immediate problems of the
community and be a solver. He said he realizes held be held directly responsible
to the Council and the citizens of the community. Councilman Spencer asked about
written Police policies and Mr. Roder said it gives them something to go by and
is the law to know where they're at and what they're expected to do. Mr. Roder
added that each officer is a representative of the community and he's expected to
see that the community doesn't have problems from his activities but results from
what hels doing.
Councilman Asting asked his present employment and Mr. Roder said hels under a cons-
ultant's basis and is doing a lot of writing plus driving a yellow cab. Councilman
Asting asked his salary expectations and Mr. Roder said he expects what the City
thinks is appropriate for the job but he was told it was $22,000.00.
Councilwoman Bennington asked his experience with budgets and Mr. Roder said the
last six years with the Marshall IS service he had the responsibility of allocating
personnel, equipment and determining needs for his district. Councilwoman Bennington
asked his experience in management and Mr. Roder said that hels been a station house
supervisor and road supervisor and was the only person responsible for a precinct.
He added that when he came to Florida he had to start as a rookie and move upward
to management. He noted that he was a deputy in the Marshall IS service and in less
than six years he was third highest rank in law enforcement there and was in world-
wide competition with others in that service.
Councilwoman Bennington asked about vicarious liability and Mr. Roder said he thinks
it's a responsibility of the community regarrfing liability filed against them or
the person in the responsible position to see those things don't occur. Council-
woman Bennington asked why he wants to be Chief and Mr. Roder said he made appli-
cation to other cities but was selective based on the fact of his knowledge of the
community.
Councilman Wargo asked about courses in human relations and Mr. Roder said he has
a degree. Councilman Wargo asked about psychology courses and Mr. Roder said he
had some and has an undergraduate and master's degree and continual courses.
Councilwoman Bennington asked how soon held be available if selected and Mr. Roder
said immediately but would like 24 hours' notice.
Councilman Spencer asked why he left the Marshall service and Mr. Roder said he
retired from there. Councilman Spencer asked if he could have continued employ-
ment there or was the retirement mandatory. Mr. Roder said when he took his
physical they found some audio tone problems due to some minor injury but he
doesn't have to wear a hearing aid. He pointed out that the federal government
has high standards and he was separated. Councilman Spencer asked if sight was
involved and Mr. Roder said you can't wear glasses because they might fog up when
entering or leaving a different temperature area. Councilman Spencer asked about
his working for women or their working for him plus blacks, Cubans or other minority
groups. Mr. Roder said his partner was black and he worked with females in the
Marshall IS service and he has no problems as long as they're capable.
-2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
May 16,1984
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Interview with Mr. Joseph Roder (continued) -
Mayor Ledbetter asked if he's a certified Police officer in Florida and Mr.
Roder said yes. Mayor Ledbetter noted that a letter attached states he'd
have to complete a 40-hour refresher course after being employed. Mr. Roder
noted that the 40 hours is a physical week and not credit hours. There was a
discussion about the time out of Police work which would require a refresher course.
Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview.
There was a brief recess until the next applicant arrived. Workshop returned in
session.
Mr. Charles Sexton was the third applicant to be interviewed. Mayor Ledbetter
introduced the Council members.
Councilman Spencer asked his duties and experience with the Winter Springs Police
Department. Mr. Sexton said he's the administrative assistant to the Chief and
he's in charge of internal affairs, is Safety Officer, is over special investi-
gations, and works with Seminole County Drug Force, plus fills in on the road when
needed. Councilman Spencer asked the size of the department and Mr. Sexton said
there are 21 sworn people. Councilman Spencer asked his knowledge of Edgewater
and Mr. Sexton said he drove through a couple of times and was favorably impressed.
He added that it seems to be mostly retired people and they're good to work with.
Councilman Spencer asked the major functions of the Police Department and Mr. Sexton
said the major function would be receiving and disbursing of complaints, to enforce
the City ordinances and have good public relations. Councilman Spencer asked about
written policies and why they're important to successful operations. Mr. Sexton
said they have to be consistent and the rules and regulations must be adhered to.
Councilman Spencer asked if he wrote poJicies~ Mr. Sexton said they're in the pro-
cess now and are doing a study of surrounding areas.
Councilman Asting asked if he holds a rank and Mr. Sexton said he's a Lieutenant.
Councilman Asting asked the salary he expects and Mr. Sexton said he understood it's
$22,000.00 and that's acceptable to him because his present salary is $19,500.00.
Councilwoman Bennington asked his experience with budgets and Mr. Sexton said he
assisted the Chief and each commander prepares his own budget and submits it to the
Chief and has to justify each request. Councilwoman Bennington asked his experience
in management and Mr. Sexton said each bureau commander is management and he has
seven non-sworn and two sworn people under him. Councilwoman Bennington asked his
idea of vicarious liability and Mr. Sexon said it's that they're responsible for what
the people under them do and that's why he believes in training programs. Council-
woman Bennington asked why he wants to come to Edgewater and Mr. Sexton said he's
always lived and worked in small towns and has a feeling on how they move.
Councilman Wargo asked if he had courses in psychology and Mr. Sexton said no.
Councilman Wargo asked about human relations courses and Mr. Sexton said he didn't
have any. Councilman Wargo asked about public relations courses and Mr. Sexton
said he'd been to seminars and works with the community relations person. Council-
man Wargo asked if he's been involved in juvenile situations and Mr. Sexton said
he's worked with H.R.S. and he's had a cadet program plus worked with Boy Scouts
and Girl Scouts and individual groups. Councilman Wargo asked about juvenile
detention centers in relation to incarceration. Mr. Sexton said it depends on the
seriousness but in most cases juveniles need help more than punishment. Councilman
Wargo asked if he felt there's a need for special juvenile attention and Mr. Sexton
said yes because they'll be adults one day.
Councilman Spencer asked about his attitude toward working for women or women working
for him or blacks or minorities. Mr. Sexton said he's worked with all and has no
discrimination toward them as long as they do the job.
Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that the election is coming up in November and there's
a possibility that since he works at the will of the Council that he could be
terminated if another Council comes in. Mr. Sexton said he's aware of that and
he's been through it the last nine years.
Councilwoman Bennington asked when he'd be available if hired. Mr. Sexton said
it would be about three weeks because he has some vacation he has to take or lose.
Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview. Mr. Sexton thanked the
Council for the opportunity to apply for the position.
-3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
May 16,1984
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Mr. Samuel Allen was the fourth, and last, applicant to be interviewed. Mayor
Ledbetter introduced the Council members.
Councilman Spencer asked his experience and duties with the Orange County Police
Department. Mr. Allen said he worked patrol and other divisions and did some under-
cover work and high crime area assignments. He added that hels been involved in
all types of investigations and emergency calls. Councilman Spencer asked his
highest rank and he said patrolman but he was shift supervisor for one year when
the city and county jails merged. Councilman Spencer asked about his other experi-
ence in Police work and Mr. Allen said he worked a short time with the Highway
Patrol in Utah and then went to the Sheriff's Department as a patrolman. Councilman
Spencer asked his knowledge of Edgewater and why he wanted to come here. Mr. Allen
said he'd never heard of Edgewater before he saw the ad but he likes the location
on the coast and it's a small community. Councilman Spencer asked about the major
functions of the Police Department and Mr. Allen said itls to protect the people and
prevent crime and service is 90% of their work. Councilman Spencer asked about the
importance of written Police policies and Mr. Allen said it protects the employees,
the Police Department, and the City and if it's not written and something goes wrong,
they have no backing. He added that if it is in writing and a rule is violated they
have a much stronger case.
Councilman Asting asked if held graduated in April as held planned and Mr. Allen
said yes. Councilman Asting noted that he'd moved quite a lot and Mr. Allen agreed.
Councilman Asting asked what salary he expected and Mr. Allen said he was told it
would be $21,000. or $22,000. and that's acceptable to him. Councilman Asting asked
his supervisory experience and Mr. Allen said it was the one year when the jails merged
and he works as a training officer. Councilman Asting asked if he had experience in
setting up patrol areas and schedules and Mr. Allen said yes, and in Lexington they
took the officers to meetings and asked for their assistance. Councilman Asting
asked if he felt inspections are necessary and Mr. Allen said that's the way it was
and they'd have spot checks or some with advance notice. Councilman Asting asked
how often he felt the Police officers should become qualified with weapons and
Mr. Allen said once every two months but his department required once a year.
Councilwoman Bennington asked his experience in preparing budgets. Mr. Allen said
just when the jails merged but he felt he could handle it. Councilwoman Bennington
asked his opinion of vicarious liability and Mr. Allen said if an officer does some-
thing wrong, they need a written policy because without it if the officer isnlt trained,
it will go to the Mayor and Council as far as liability is concerned. He added that
if a Police Chief has worked with the Council and set up a good Police guideline,
it will protect them and him. Councilwoman Bennington asked why he wants to be
Chief in Edgewater, and Mr. Allen said with his years as a Police officer and his
education he wants to have a responsible position such as this and considers it a
real opportunity.
Mayor Ledbetter asked if his supervisory position was a shift on the road or the
County detention center and Mr. Allen said it was with the detention center.
Councilman Wargo asked if he had courses in psychology and Mr. Allen said in Crimin-
ology they1re required to have certain courses that include psychology and abnormal
psychology. Councilman Wargo asked if he had public relations courses and Mr.
Allen said it's just from experience, and he's the number one public relations
officer on patrol in Lexington. Councilman Wargo asked about human relations
with people under him and Mr. Allen said he took Public Administration courses
which included personnel management. Councilman Wargo if held had dealings with
juvenile divisions and Mr.Allen said about 50% of the work was with juveniles and
he's been involved in drug seminars, and bicycle safety, and has gone to schools
to give talks and present programs. Councilman Wargo asked about juvenile detention
centers and Mr. Allen said it depends on the individual case but in most situations
the juvenile can be released to the parents but sometime they have to incarcerate
them. Councilman Wargo asked if he felt it should be normal incarceration or
juvenile incarceration and Mr. Allen said they should be separated from the adults.
Mr. Allen noted that he'd been offered a job in Georgia and would take it if he
didn't take this one. Councilman Spencer asked if he worked for a woman or over
women and Mr. Allen said he had both situations and had no problems. Councilman
Spencer asked about working with blacks or minorities and Mr. Allen said Lexington
had about 45% blacks and he rode and worked with them and most of his experience was
in the black community. Mayor Ledbetter thanked him for coming for the interview
and Mr. Allen thanked Council for their time.
-4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
May 1 6, 1 984
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Councilman Wargo said he feels they're in a position of training a Police Chief
and doesn't feel any of the four interviewed would be satisfactory. Councilman
Spencer agreed with Councilman Wargo that they all have something lacking either
in administration or Police experience and he didn't find a candidate to vote for.
Councilman Asting said the whole procedure was unnecessary and they're offering it
at an increased salary, plus the cost of the audit report, and money paid to the
interim Chief, and held vote no in any event. Councilwoman Bennington said she
agreed fuat these four were not a fair representation and she'd like to look at more
of the applications. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that the committee only had
10 people referred to them and they were down to six for this last screening.
Councilman Spencer said they considered the ones with the highest votes and there
were 11 with two votes and held like to look at those and ask the committee to
screen those additional 11. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd like to see back-
ground information on them before they interview further. City Clerk Kinsey noted
there's a lot of time involved in that and Councilwoman Bennington said they should
take all the time that's needed, and she'd like to see all the background information
before they actually interview again. Councilman Asting pointed out that the longer
they delay it the more it costs the City and this money isn't budgeted for. Mayor
Ledbetter noted that Chief Overman's time is up on May 27th. Councilman Wargo
suggested picking an interim chief from the rank and file pending a final selection.
Councilman Spencer said Ed Overman might continue during the search. Mayor Ledbetter
said the contract is up on the 27th of this month and expects the contract to be
lived up to with no extensions. Councilman Spencer noted that there's nothing
illegal with extending that contract. Mayor Ledbetter said he didn't want the contract
one day beyond the 27th at the amount that's being paid.
Councilwoman Bennington said she'd like to go into the next 12 and Councilman Spencer
agreed. City Clerk Kinsey stated that U~ members of the screening committee are out
of town and won't be back until the middle of June. Councilman Wargo said Council
should do it. Councilman Spencer said held like professional help for the screening
and background checks and they could change the committee if necessary. Councilman
Wargo agreed it's good to have professional help but held like to know how they rated
them. Councilwoman Bennington agreed and suggested they interview the other 11 and
pick the top 6 to have the committee do backup because she wants professional involve-
ment. Councilman Spencer suggested the committee do the interviews in Edgewater where
Council members can observe. Mayor Ledbetter stated that Council is responsible for
this. Councilman Asting moved to go back into a Special Meeting. Councilwoman
Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Wargo moved that the four people be rejected. Councilman Spencer seconded
the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to go into the pool for the next 12 that had the two
votes. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Wargo moved to have a workshop for selecting for interviews and said
he wants to review the applications and select them within the next seven days.
Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. It was agreed
that it would be a Workshop and Special Meeting so that a selection could be made.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion.
Meeting was adjourned at 12:18 P.M.
Lura Sue Koser
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Minutes submitted by:
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Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
May 16, 1 984