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04-19-1984 - Special/Workshop ~ (.) Q ~ CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER SPECIAL MEETING & WORKSHOP APRIL 19, 1984 MINUTES Vice Mayor Gigi Bennington called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 10:00AM in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Councilman Melbourne Wargo Vice Mayor Gigi Bennington Councilman Neil Asting Excused Present Present Present Councilman Jack Spencer City Attorney Josel Alvarez City Clerk Connie Kinsey Police Chief Ed Overman Present Excused Present Excused Vice Mayor Bennington stated the purpose of the meeting is to discuss and negotiate with Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers. The engineering firm representatives had not arrived at the meeting at this time. Councilman Spencer moved to recess until they arrive. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Vice Mayor Bennington called the Special Meeting back to order at 10:06 AM. Councilman Spencer moved that they operate in a Workshop. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Mr. Paul Porter, Vice President of Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers, Inc., thanked the Council for selecting them to discuss negotiations. Mr. Porter reviewed the items in sections LA.l, 2, 4 and 5. He noted that the word "minor" was added with construction improvements to the water and sewer utilities, etc. in I.A.2, and said this would be for minor items when they don't need to negotiate. He noted that these items are on an hourly rate and the bigger projects will be on a lump sum. Mr. Conklin pointed out that item I.A.3 would have no charge at all, and this pertains to grants and loans. Councilman Spencer asked if the changes to the water treatment plant for HTM would be a major or minor item and Mr. Conklin said it would probably be major but it's up to Council to make that determination and they can negotiate a lump sum fee for any project. Councilman Spencer pointed out that the City would be involved with the County on bike paths and Mr. Conklin said there's not a lot in that category but they can assist or represent the City on that. Mr. Porter noted that item I.A.5. had an addition regarding miscellaneous services and it was "including but not limited to review of development plans and documents sub- mitted to the City, providing assistance with ordinances, etc. Mr. Conklin said they can put a provision regarding no developer work if the Council wants it. Councilman Spencer and Vice Mayor Bennington stated they1d like it to be part of the agreement. Mr. Porter said they are proposing $37.50 per hour for any and all classes of labor directly engaged in the provision of services, and this includes overhead, indirect costs, and profit. Vice Mayor Bennington asked if there are any additions to that and Mr. Porter said there are no other charges. Mr. Conklin noted that this was an average for anyone, and under the miscellaneous, it will be mostly those in the higher categories, and on a project basis they'll use more drafting and lower paid help. Mr. Porter stated that out of pocket expenses such as prints and long distance calls will be reimbursed at actual cost, and subconsultants will be cost plus 10%. Mr. Conklin explained the 10% is due to their responsibility and insurance when hiring subcontractors. Mr. Porter noted that one direction travel will be charged, and the other direction won1t be charged to the City. o o Mr. Porter said time at evening meetings shall not exceed the actual working time plus one hour. Councilman Spencer said held like the billing to be clarified when it's on the hourly charge to know what project is involved and the dates the work is done. Councilman Asting said held like to see it itemized with a description of what occurred. Mr. Porter said they try to personalize the bills. There was a discussion about the billings so they could be easily read by Council. Mr. Conklin pointed out that they have to stay within their bookkeeping system but he feels this can be handled. Vice Mayor Bennington asked how often they would be billed and Mr. Porter said it would be once a month. Mr. Conklin said held like to see a clause added to review the hourly rate after a certain period of time and after discussion, it was decided the engineers could bring it up but no more often than once a year. Mr. Conklin pointed out that the termination clause is for 30 days. Councilman Asting asked if there would be a problem if the City hires a City Engineer in the future and Mr. Conklin said no, the City just doesn't request those services. He said a lot of cities go to city engineers because of the economic factor. Vice Mayor Bennington asked if all requests have to be written or if they could be called in and then followed up with a letter. Mr. Porter said a lot of cities never get around to written requests. Mr. Conklin said on minor matters it will usually show in minutes. Councilman Wargo said the requests should be verified in writing. City Clerk Kinsey suggested a work order system be implemented. Mr. Conklin pointed out they will represent the City but they don't talk to the press unless told to do so and they don't talk with developers unless told to. Mr. Wadsworth noted that in the past they weren't told when the engineers had contact with the developers. Councilman Asting said in regard,to not working for developers, the City may want them to review development plans. Mr. Conklin suggested adding the statement II will not represent private developers in any business matters in the City of Edgewater". Councilman Spencer asked if the City has 30 days in which to pay the bills and Mr. Conklin said theyld like it as expeditiously as possible. There was a discussion of the City's payment policy. Vice Mayor Bennington asked for clarification of the one hour with evening hours. Mr. Porter explained that if they come over and have to wait for three hours for an item to come up they'll bill for the actual time needed plus one hour and travel one way, but they won't charge the one hour additional if they get an immediate response. Mr. Conklin said they wonlt charge for the time they're waiting and Mr. Porter agreed they won't charge an hour if they don't need it. Mr. Conklin reviewed section IB regarding the project engineering services that will be provided and said they.ll negotiate for each project or have an amemdment to the engineering agreement and they prefer an engineering agreement for projects unless it's a small one. He said the lump sum is guided by the median percentage of FES and the curve will change from time to time. Vice ~1ayor Bennington asked if a study will have to be negotiated and Mr. Conklin said yes and they'll prepare an estimate for that study and issue it to Council for approval and direction. Vice Mayor Bennington asked if it were a study in conjunction with construction if it would be a separate item or added to construction cost. Mr. Conklin said it could be done in conjunction with a study and then the construction costs would be lumped together as one fee or done step by step. Mr. Conklin added they'll negotiate on projects and generally use the curve but if the City wants to go on other than a lump sum, they can go on a different basis but EPA is cost plus a fixed fee. Councilman Spencer noted that he's satisfied with the statement because it shows some flexibility. -2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes April 19, 1984 . o u Councilman Asting asked if the $37.50 an hour rate would include secretaries and draftsmen and Mr. Porter said yes. Councilman Wargo said he thought they took wages for the entire staff and averaged it out instead of saying $70.00 for a top rate engineer and lower for others. Mr. Conklin pointed out that the majority of time won't be secretaries and draftsmen. Mr. Wadsworth asked if the hourly rate could be evaluated by the City if they find they're operating in the upper or lower rates. Mr. Conklin said they can include the classes of employees on the billings. Councilman Spencer asked that this agreement be drafted and submitted to the City Attorney for his review and approval. There was a discussion regarding the time charged when it's less than one hour. Mr. Conklin suggested adding "only actual time spent directly on the project will be charged and no charge will be made for periods of less than 15 minutes". Councilman Asting asked if pre-construction and actual construction is involved as two costs or one. Mr. Porter said it's only one. Mr. Conklin said they'll use the fee curve that it won't exceed that normally. Mr. Porter said this could be changed if they are requested to do something else during the project. Councilman Spencer pointed out that it would require a change order. There was a discussion regarding the liability of the engineers if an error is made and the comparison of the soil cement mistake with road paving was noted. Mr. Conklin said this would have to be handled on an individual basis and a determination would have to be made as to who is negligent, as they're not responsible for catching mistakes that a contractor makes. Councilman Wargo pointed out that if there is a problem during the time the job is being done and they don't have people to inspect on a regular basis, they assume the engineering firm or architectural firm will do that. He asked if special inspectors have to be hired or if they're provided or if this is something that has to be agreed upon at the start of the project. Mr. Conklin said it has to be agreed to when the project starts. There wasa discussion regarding the additional costs for resident inspectors. Mr. Conklin pointed out that their firm has never had a payment made on their pro- fessional liability insurance and they carry $2,000,000.00. Mr. Wadsworth suggested the addition of the negotiations to be requested by the engineer or the owner. Mr. John Wilkinson asked if they can enforce the same billing requirements for their sub-contractors and Mr. Conklin said yes. Mr. Wilkinson asked if mileage is added besides travel time one way and Mr. Porter said mileage is both ways. Mr. Wilkinson suggested that be spelled out. Councilman Spencer asked the mileage amount and Mr. Porter said it's 25~ a mile. Mr. Wilkinson suggested on the 30-day termination clause they include that the projects they're working on be completed, and Mr. Conklin agreed. Vice Mayor Bennington had to leave the meeting for a brief period and passed the gavel to Acting Mayor Asting. Councilman Spencer asked when they could begin work for the City and explained the City is in the 90 day termination stage with Briley, Wild but they're to complete the rehabilitation of the three lift stations project and possibly other projects. He said they could ask Briley, Wild for an early release so the new firm can get started and he felt the 90 days is too long. Mr. Wadsworth agreed he likes the 30 days. Councilman Spencer noted that Briley, Wild worked on the low pressure sewer system. Mr. Wadsworth said that will have to be re-permitted. Vice Mayor Bennington returned to the meeting and assumed the chair. Councilman Spencer said the pilot LPSS was done with the idea of expanding in the future and they also don1t want grant construction to be ineligible. , Councilman Asting suggested they leave in the 30-day clause with a stipulation that it include any projects underway to be completed before final termination. Mr. Conklin suggested it be at the option of the City. Councilman Spencer suggested it be "except the City will have the option to extend it for specific projects". -3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes April 19, 1 984 . , o o . Mr. Wilkinson questioned why the statement regarding evening meetings didn't also pertain to daytime meetings. Mr. Porter said during the day they would be paid. Mr.Wilkinson suggested that hearings be included with evenings. Mr. Porter suggested IIshall not exceed actual working time and waiting time as incurred up to one hour". Councilman Asting asked who the engineer would be and Mr. Porter said that wasn't determined yet. Mr. Conklin said it could be according to the project they want done and they'll discuss it with them or they could name one as overall.manager. Vice Mayor Bennington said she'd like one overall contact. Mr. Porter said they can do that and Vice Mayor Bennington asked that it be included in the agreement. Mr. Wilkinson asked about response time under normal circumstances and under emer- gency circumstances and Mr. Conklin said it would be provided as expeditiously as possible. Councilman Spencer said he likes the agreement because it's general and easily under- stood and if they aren't satisfied with the service they can terminate it in 30 days. He added that the City Clerk/Administrator should be the contact person and should give the directions primarily although Terry Wadsworth's department would have a lot of dealings with them also, but there should be a control over contacts. Mr. Wadsworth recommended an in-house work order system. Councilman Wargo pointed out that the various boards shouldn't contact them. Vice Mayor Bennington noted that after the initial contact, the board chairmen could contact the engineers. Councilman Spencer said he feels the Council should be kept informed on major projects but it's not their prerogative to give them directions. Mr. Wadsworth stated that he felt the contract is good and is general and specific enough for a good overall idea. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that the word "Commission" needs to be changed to "Council" when they prepare the agreement. Councilman Asting moved to go back into the Special Meeting. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Asting moved that Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers prepare the agreement as discussed and they send it to our City Attorney for examination and recommendations to Council. At the suggestion of Vice Mayor Bennington, he added if it's agreeable to both parties, they consummate it. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Vice Mayor Bennington suggested a letter to Briley, Wild informing them we hired another engineering firm and ask an early release. There was a discussion as to how the contact would be made and who would be the contact, and Vice Mayor Bennington noted that during the transition period the two firms will have to work together. Mr. Conklin agreed to talk with Briley, Wild after the City's initial contact. Councilman Spencer pointed out that any information the City paid for needs to be in the City's records. Councilman Spencer moved the City Clerk/Administrator and Terry Wadsworth meet with Briley, Wild to discuss their termination at the earliest possible time of the contract relationship with them. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Councilman Asting asked about projects they're working on and Councilman Spencer said they'll come up in the discussions. Motion CARRIED 4-0. Councilman Asting moved to adjourn. was adjourned at 11:30 AM. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. \[)~tJr 1:f2tz~, MAYOR - v ~ 'v '?J2r~~~' 'CO N,CIL~N -a ONE COUNC~OMAN - ZONE TWO hMi/1'1o~ COUNCILMA tJONE THREE ATTEST: ~~~7 (ApProve,\&~i sr? -~.P'f. 1 /1~a~ .d kM" \T7)1f0~.,:-" MAYOR . , - /-P , 1 984 . Meeting A,/0 t{M tJ -r 7;AD I U/~_ f Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes -4- April 19, 1984