04-13-1984 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING & WORKSHOP
APRIL 13, 1984
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 8:00 AM in
the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter Present Councilman Jack Spencer Present
Councilman Melbourne Wargo Present City Attorney Jose' Alvarez Excused
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington Present City Clerk Connie Kinsey Present
Councilman Neil Asting Present Police Chief Ed Overman Excused
Also present were Mr. Terry Wadsworth, Utilities Superintendent, and Mr. John Wilkinson,
citizen volunteer on the Engineering Proposals Review Committee.
Mayor Ledbetter stated the purpose of the meeting and workshop is to have presentations
by the five consulting engineering firm applicants. Councilman Spencer moved to recess
the Special Meeting. Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers, Inc.- Mr. Jess Dietz, special consultant, was the
first to speak and said they started working in Sanford in 1959 and worked for them on
water, sewer, and other projects. He reviewed the history of the firms that merged to
be the present firm. He noted they'd worked on a water and sewer study for Volusia
County in 1970 and 1972 and Mr. Porter was the project engineer for that. He pointed out
that Cal Conklin is head of the firm, Paul Porter had done some work on the ground water
of Vol usia County, and Mike Deverall has had seven years of working as a grade A operator
in water and sewing and also has experience in almost all fields. He added that Mike
Deverall is a registered professional engineer. He introduced Terry Zaudtke who is a
project engineer with the firm.
Mr. Paul Porter spoke on master planning and showed a copy of a Master Water Supply
Plan for the City of Lake Mary, Florida. He said he worked closely with the Commission
of Lake Mary to compile the plan. He also showed a Master Drainage Study for a planned
unit development in Seminole County, and a Summary Report of the Water and Sewer Facilities
Plan for Volusia County, Florida, dated March, 1970. He also had a Short Range Water
and Sewer Summary Report for Volusia County dated July, 1972. Mr. Porter stated he'd
done a lot of 201 work and is working on one for the City of Venice. He said they urge
the involvement of the political entity and a technical advisory committee when necessary.
Mr. Porter then spoke on the ground water hydrology in this area and displayed a large
map of the County with the areas in Edgewater shown as shaded colors on an overlay.
He noted that the amount of chloride levels has to be closely watched in developing new
wells and they don't want to go too deep or pump them too hard. There was a discussion
of the possible depths for wells in the different shaded areas, and the possible intrusion.
Mr. Terry Zaudtke showed an aerial photo of Edgewater and said with the growth in the
City there will be more demand on the water plant and it serves 3,900 people now and
can service 8,000 to 10,000. He added that the new commercial section will need higher
requirements for fire flow for insurance purposes. He reviewed the high service pumping
capacity and water treatment capacity and wellfield capacity and showed photos of the
water treatment plant. He spoke on the hardness of the water and the various chemicals
in it. He said the present site is capable of some expansion but they need to consider
a different site for long range planning. He showed some alternatives for the water
plant, first was to construct a new plant and operate two plan~,expand the existing
plant, build a new plant and phase out the existing plant, or build a new plant and con-
vert the existing plant to a booster station. He noted that some wells are experiencing
degradation and the chloride level is being pulled over and they'll eventually have to
abandon well #1. He suggested the fo~rth alternative and that it be built around 442.
Mr. Mike Deverall reviewed the wastewater system and said they're doing studies for
Casselberry and Eustis. He noted that a pilot sewer system would help them decide if
they want the low pressure sewer system. He showed a graph that had the infiltration
and inflow problems during the two days of heavy rains in March. He displayed a Sewer
System Evaluation Study for Eustis. He noted that there is adequate plant capacity,
and they might need a flow equalization tank. He showed photos of sludge drying beds,
grit chambers and surge tanks and pumping facilities.
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Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers, Inc.(continued)-
Mr. Cal Conklin said they offer services in civil, paving and drainage, and reviewing
subdivision plans and working with the various boards in addition to the water and
sewer. He said they've also helped some of the cities obtain grants and they follow
the Federal Register daily, and he displayed a chart on Financial Experience. He showed
a chart with a listing of the reasons for selecting their firm, such as: experienced
staff with environmental and civil; medium sized firm; location is within 30 minutes;
operational assistance; in-house computer service; assistance in obtaining grants;
knowledge of Edgewater; personalized service; economical services and designs; and hard
working and conscientious. He added that they have 45 people with 10 registered
engineers in diverse areas.
Mayor Ledbetter noted that the land south of 442 was a landfill and asked if they
could use that for anew plant and added that it's been closed about nine years.
Mr. Deverell said it couldn't be a well site but they could build something on it.
Mr. Conklin added that most landfills aren't too deep and the tanks would go through it.
Councilman Spencer noted that the City has a permit to discharge effluent to the river
and asked if there would be an alternative to this. Mr. Deverell said the permit
expires in 1985 with DER and it may need to be re-assessed then. Mr. Conklin added
that a survey could be done. Mr. Deverell said they'd need land disposal of waste-
water but it's very expensive and Mr. Conklin pointed out that the land disposal is a
conservation of water.
Councilman Spencer asked if they work for developers and municipalities and Mr. Conklin
said yes. Councilman Spencer asked about conflicts and Mr. Conklin said they never
work for a land developer in the community they serve. Councilman Spencer asked if they
have a hydrologist on the staff and Mr. Conklin said yes.
Councilman Spencer asked the difference between a hydrologist and environmental engineer.
Mr. Conklin said a hydrologist is ground water and surface water hydrology and conditions
of ground water and surface water and environmental will take that water and use it but
doesn't go into the quality or quantity of it. Mr. Deverell said U.S.G.S. is coming up
with a report on the study of Volusia County and Mr. Conklin pointed out that these
agencies provide assistance at no charge.
Dyer, Riddle, Mills, and Precourt - Mr. Don Barton introduced Gerry Hartman, Project
Manager, Elizabeth Skene, Engineer, and Phil Jantes of Metcalf & Eddy of Chicago.
Mr. Hartman said they're a 108-man firm in Orlando and have complete water and waste-
water design capabilities and they're associated with Metcalf & Eddy, who wrote a
textbook on wastewater engineering. He said the firm has nationwide expertise but
they're local and serve New Smyrna Beach. He added that they can assist with bonds.
He said he would be project engineer and Mr. Christensen would be the project manager,
and their main office is in Orlando. He noted that they'd done a Pollution Control
report for Orange County. He showed a list of water supply experience, which included
Titusville, and then showed a chart of analytical capabilities of surface and ground
water analysis. He showed a map which had the water treatment plant and sewer plant
pinpointed and a schematic of the water treatment plant. He suggested they add another
spiractor for reaction time. He then showed a schematic of the sewer treatment plant
and said they should add some upgrading to the plant. He added that they have a
construction management division of the firm. He showed a chart with a list of the
reasons for selecting their firm, such as: high quality staff; strong recent experi-
ence; successful projects track record; client references; working principals; complete
facilities; responsible; project knowledge; and unbiased and objective.
Councilman Spencer asked if they have hydrologists on staff and Mr. Hartman said no
but Metcalf & Eddy has several and they've used Garrett and Miller previously.
Councilman Spencer asked about the effluent going to the river and if there would be an
alternative if there were restrictions put on it. Mr. Hartman said an alternative would
be to provide additional treatment to reduce the amount of pollutants in that flow
and there's wastewater reclaim reuse to bring the flow back with a filter and take it
to golf courses or other areas.
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April 13, 1984
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Dyer, Riddle, Mills and Precourt (continued) _
Councilman Asting asked for possible sites for a new water plant. Mr. Hartman
said they can use the present plant frir a repumping st~tion and cro~sing 95 is
expensive but there's a high ridge there and he'd suggest extending a pipe out in
that district and look at a treatment plant near 95. There was a discussion about
the possible expansion of the City limits to the south and the west.
Councilwoman Bennington asked how long improvements to the existing water plant
would be effective before it reaches capacity and Mr. Hartman said they have another
700,000 gallons of capacity~ and they should have at least five years with that
expansion.
Councilman Spencer pointed out that Florida Shores has no sewage facilities and
it's intended to have a pilot low pressure sewer system and asked their experience
with this. Mr. Hartman said they have one in East Point that serves about 200,000
gallons and with a high water table, the LPSS is a collection into a fiberglass
holding tank. He reviewed the process of LPSS and the different types.
Councilman Wargo asked who controls the drilling of wells and Mr. Hartman said it's
the St. Johns River Water Management District. Councilman Wargo asked if they should
get into water authorities instead of city-owned plants. Mr. Hartman said that U.S.G.S.
recommended a regional water authority.
Councilman Asting asked about desalinization and Mr. Hartman said they'd just designed
a reverse osmosis plant and they normally design desalinization for a two or three phase
system.
Councilman Spencer asked about other types of engineering services, such as drainage
and roads. Mr. Barton said Bill Dyer is the structural engineer for roads, highways
and bridges. He said in drinage, they have five non-registered engineers and they're
doing the Master Drainage Plan for Orlando, and they're drainage engineers for Ocala.
Councilman Spencer asked if they work for developers and Mr. Barton said yes. Councilman
Spencer asked about conflicts and Mr. Barton said they don't do anything for developers
there. Mr. Hartman said they'd agree not to do work for developers in the same
city where they're engineers.
Mayor Ledbetter thanked them for coming and giving their presentation.
Blount, Sikes, Bouck & Rockett - Mr. John Sikes introduced his team which includerl
Frank Marshall of Marshall, Engineering with the support of Jerry Kubal of Geraghty
and Miller as hydrological consultants. He reviewed the information and experience of
Geraghty and Miller which is located in Tampa and West Palm. He noted that Blount, Sikes
was with another organization until about two years ago and with this joint venture,
Frank Marshall would be project manager and the local office is where they'd work out
of. He added that they do private work besides municipal work. He said they would
pledge involvement of principals, close coordination with City staff, on time and budget,
and economical cost. He showed a list of EPA construction grants program experience
and a chart on the related exper.iences on recent water supply projects. He then showed
a chart on operations management consulting experience. He showed photos of Lakeland's
treatment facilities to handle coal fired ash from the coal burners. He said another
job was the Iron Bridge plant in Orlando. He introduced Frank Marshall and added that
he serves on the Environmental Board of Volusia County.
Mr. Marshall showed a slide presentation of some of the problems and the growth areas
in Edgewater. Mr. Marshall said he'd been in this area for 12 years and was familiar
with the problems and the growth. He said the development will be to the west and
the south and they've got to a point of available capacity. He said they could design
facilities to take care of growth and Edgewater has adequate storage but as growth occurs,
they'll have to have more storage facilities constructed.
Mr. Jerry Kubal spoke on the groundwater and saltwater intrusion and said expansion of
the system to the west will need to be considered. He added that the City should con-
sider reuse and recycle of the water they have, and said St. Johns wants to be involved
when the City begins a new well site to do some surveys and studies.
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April 13, 1984
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Blount, Sikes, Bouck & Rockett (continued) -
Mr. Marshall said they conducted a test on a coastal ridge and suggested they take
advantage of the offer of St. Johns River. He said he worked on projects for four
wastewater treatment plants in Merritt Island and he could apply that experience to
the City. He noted that he's aware of the financing programs in Edgewater and that
there's not money for capital improvements and he suggested they study development
fees again, which was recommended by Briley, Wild in 1980. for study in 1982.
Mr. Sikes reviewed the responsibilities of the various people in the firm and said
Frank Marshall would be Project Manager, John Sikes would be Senior Project Engineer,
and Jerry Kubal would be hydrogeologist with two other engineers and a surveying
supervisor and the technical staff. He said they could have monthly meetin~with the
staff and elected officials.
Councilman Spencer asked about alternatives for effluent discharge to the river if they're
restricted in the future. Mr. Sikes said they can reuse it for lawn irrigation and
golf courses, or treat it and use it for recharge. He said they can convert it to
agriculture or cattle feed or dig deep wells and inject it there.
Councilman Spencer asked their experience with low pressure sewer systems as it's
being considered here. Mr. Sikes said he had none but Dave Bouck of the firm had
experience in design. Mr. Marshall said his only experience is what he's learned in
Edgewater and he feels they should go through the pilot study and compare the data
and the cost.
Councilman Spencer said he'd gone with Frank Marshall to the plant near Orlando and was
very impressed because the plant operators told him how good the plant was operating.
Mr. Sikes pointed out that is a Navy plant operated by the City.
Councilman Asting said the City needs engineers for other than water and sewer, such
as for structual, drainage and road paving. Mr. Sikes said their primary work has been
paving, drainage and surveying. Councilman Asting asked if they handle developments
and Mr. Sikes said they wouldn't work for any developers within a five or ten mile
radius of Edgewater.
Councilman Asting asked their recommendations for location of a water plant. Mr.
Marshall said they look at the center for future growth which would be the west and
the south and said the 95 area would be considered because of the formation of the
coastal ridge there, and the existing plant could supplement the flow of the new plant.
Councilman Spencer asked about continuity of service since this is a joint venture
and Mr. Sikes said they'd provide a clause in the agreement to continue the service or
give the City the option to cancel. Mr. Sikes noted that they're building in Winter
Park and would serve from that office. .
Councilman Asting moved to recess until 12:30. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion.
Mayor Ledbetter called the recessed meeting back to order at 12:30P.M.
Camp, Dresser & McKee, Inc. - Mr. Dennis Withey was the first to speak and said they're
about 50 miles from Edgewater and they can offer water, wastewater, and civil con-
sulting engineering services. He said they have 34 years of experience and have a
staff who specialize in the design of water and wastewater systems and also a full
staff of construction management inspection team. He introduced Mr. Dick Grantham,
Mr. Dave Refling, Mr. Bob Driver, and Mr. Jim Bible. He noted that 90% of their
work is for municipalities and the other 10% is industrial work and they don't repre-
sent developers.
Mr. Dave Refling spoke next and said he would be the project manager. He added that
he'd talked with the City's staff and toured the facilities and listed the priorities
as water first, then wastewater, financing evaluations, and institutional considerations.
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April 13, 1984
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Camp, Dresser & McKee, Inc. (continued) -
Mr. Dick Grantham spoke on the water system. He said well #1 is increasing in
chloride content which indicates overpumping and they're having salt intrusion
there. He suggested the wells be lined up in a north/south direction in the future
and move to the west for the new wells, and that the overpumping be lessened in order
to preserve the quality. He suggested the wells be placed out near 95. He added
that the treatment plant has problems with softening and chlorination, and they need
to think about increasing the water plant capacity. He noted that the transmission
pipe line from the plant to the City is giving them a problem and said they could
extend the distribution or lay another pipe beside the present one. There was a
discussion about the pumping abilities with another pipe and the age of the current
pipe. Mr. Grantham said they need to have THM control which uses ammonia and added
that after 10,000 population it's a federal requirement that it be reduced to 100
micrograms.
Councilman Wargo questioned water coming from lakes and using reservoirs. Mr.
Grantham said he didn't know where they could get this set up to have adequate
supply. There was a discussion about possible locations, and the recharge system.
Councilman Spencer asked if they'd
they'd worked in New Smyrna Beach.
agencies to approve new wellfields
Management District and D.E.R. and
worked in Volusia County and Mr. Grantham said
Councilman Spencer asked about the regulatory
and Mr. Grantham said it's St. Johns River Water
held have to check with Volusia County.
Mr. Refling reviewed the low pressure sewer system, service area expectations and
annexation, and infiltration-inflow. He noted that they'd have to determine if it
would be cost effective to annex to get the extra revenue.
Councilman Spencer asked their experience with LPSS and Mr. Refling said Bob Driver
has been involved in evaluations and Mr. Grantham was involved in Bellview, Washington
to correct problems with a system. Mr. Grantham reviewed how the system was put in
and its workings.
Mr. Refling spoke on the effluent disposal and said the wastewater treatment needs
v' assistance in solids handling because of the drying options. Councilman Wargo asked
why the process is being changed and Mr. Refling said it's for public health because
at times the digestor may not work properly. There was a discussion about how this
could be used.
Mr. Jim Bible said they can assess the costs and look at alternative financing and
implementation for major programs. He noted that it's important to have good communi-
cations with the community, and added they can assist with ordinances and rules where
needed.
Mr. Refling listed the reasons for selecting their firm, such as: nationally recognized
firm; local Maitland office with staff of 40 popele; full range of services; cost
effective approach; "fast track" capabilities; excellent relations with regulatory
agencies; no developer interests; commitment of resources and expertise; and responsive
and computer services. He noted that they have worked extensively with hydrogeological
firms.
Councilman Spencer asked about assistance with grant applications and Mr. Refling said
they can do that. Mr. Bible noted that they worked on two projects the past year that
got between $66. and $90. million dollars in State funds.
Councilwoman Bennington questioned the difference in names for a project manager and
Mr. Withey said it was changed as in the interim time since the proposal was submitted,
the other man was assigned to another project. He assured Councilwoman Bennington that
there would not be another change. Mr. Withey added that Dave Refling would be the
contact.
Mayor Ledbetter thanked them for coming and making the presentation.
-5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
April 13, 1984
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Boyle Engineering Corporation -
Mr. Don Brown showed a summary of why they should be selected, such as: size;
facilities; qualifications of staff; experience with similar projects; approach;
staff assigned to our project; and communications with staff and Council members.
Mr. Brown said they had 50 years in Central Florida and have 150 members in ~rlando
with 62 registered professionals. He added that they're an em~loyee-owned flr~ and
they have computer facilities and municipal work is 80% of thelr volume. He l~sted
the various services available which included mapping systems and road and dralnage.
He showed a list of their clients which included Apopka, Maitland, Orlando, and Ocala.
Mr. Brown said he would be principal contact, the water system contact would be
Dick Coleman, the sewer system contact would be Dave Farabee, and the general munici-
pality work would be under Walter Fritz.
Mr. Dick Coleman said held met with the City staff and he felt the plant and wellfield
are at about 80% capacity and the finished water quality meets State requirements
except for the TMH. He noted that there could be a problem if one of the two pumps
would be down and the 2" and 6" pipes cause pressure problems. He stated that the
plant is 10 years old and the filter media had to be replaced several times and this
was caused by lack of detention time and problems with the backwash system which could
be corrected with modifications. He said they'd review four items - to estimate future
water demands; recommend a program for expanding wellfield and treatment plant;
develop maps of existing distribution system; and identify distribution system improve-
ments. He said the location of the plant has to be considered so they don1t have to
pay so much for transmission piping. He noted that they have a procedure to prepare
accurate maps of the City. and they use a computer for this.
Mr. Farabee spoke on the wastewater system and said the City has some time to work
on this because of the amount of flow compared to the capacity. He showed a schematic
of the sewage treatment plant and noted that the addition of sludge beds could increase
the capacity of the sludge process. He said the infiltration-inflow needs to be reviewed
plus the Florida Shores collection system needs evaluated. He added that they need to
prepare a Master Plan. Councilman Asting asked how much increased capacity would be
involved with modification and Mr. Farabee said they'd have to study it.
Mr. Brown noted other services such as cost of services analysis; roadway design;
storm drainage; and general municipal services. He added that he would meet with
Council members on an individual basis if required.
Mr. Coleman displayed the mapping that was done from a map of the water system of
the City.
Councilman Spencer asked about work other than for municipalities. Mr. Brown said
they do a lot of work for the Navy and private utilities. Mr. Coleman said they do
very little work for developers. Mr. Farabee said they turned down a project for a
developer because it was in a City where they work.
Councilman Spencer asked about effluent discharge to the river and asked alternatives
if it would be restricted. Mr. Farabee said the permit is for a greater load than is
being done and they could negotiate with D.E.R. for more flow. Mr. Brown noted that
if D.E.R. stopped it completely, they could use it for citrus irrigation, purcolation,
hyacinth treatment, wetland disposal, or other things.
Councilman Spencer asked their experience with Comprehensive Plans. Mr. Brown said
they worked on them with Ocala and Lake Alfred.
Councilman Asting asked if they're tied in with other firms and Mr. Brown said they
are nationally established but don't work with other firms. Councilman Spencer
thanked them for coming.
Councilman Spencer suggested that Terry Wadsworth be asked his recommendations since
he will be the main contact person with the engineers and Councilman Astinq agreed.
Mr. Wadsworth said there are two firms he felt would do a good job and those are
Conklin, Porter and Holmes and Camp, Dresser and McKee. He pointed out that Camp,
Dresser and McKee doesn't represent any developers and they worked in Port Orange and
New Smyrna Beach. Councilman Asting agreed those were his two choices also, and
Councilwoman Bennington, Mayor Ledbetter and Councilman Spencer said they had those
also.
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April 13, 1984
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There was a general discussion about the size of the firms and personal attention
that would be given. Mr. Wadsworth pointed out that Conklin, Porter & Holmes were
engineers for Lake Mary and that city just chose Camp, Dresser & McKee. Council-
woman Bennington noted that she called a councilman in Venice regarding Conklin,
Porter and Holmes and he was very pleased with them.
Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Wilkinson.s comments since he was on the engineering
proposals review committee. Mr. Wilkinson said he agreed with Conklin, Porter and
Holmes and with Camp, Dresser & McKee but he rated Camp, Dresser just a little
higher in a numerical rating. He added that the location in Sanford would provide
a shorter response time. Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Wilkinson his third choice
and Mr. Wilkinson said it was Dyer, Riddle, Mills & Precourt on the points rating.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that Dyer, Riddle was her third choice also. Council-
man Asting said his third choice was Blount, Sikes, Bouck & Rockett, and Mayor
Ledbetter said he was concerned about the different firms merging into one.
Councilman Asting congratulated the members of the review committee on going through
the proposals and settling on these five firms and Mayor Ledbetter and Councilwoman
Bennington agreed.
Councilwoman Bennington brought up that the County will be ready to pave Mango Tree
in two weeks and they.ll do all the rest of the paving from 12th to 16th Street for
about $10,000.00 and the County will do the surveying and inspection also.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to go to the Special Meeting. Councilman Asting seconded
the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting moved that the City of Edgewater negotiate for the services of
Conklin, Porter and Holmes as City Engineers as the #1 preference. Councilman Spencer
seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilman Wargo voted NO.
There was a discussion as to the items to negotiate and Councilman Spencer pointed out
that some things should be on a straight time basis and others on a project basis.
Council~/oman Bennington noted that the City Attorney needs to be at this meeting.
Councilman Spencer moved that Camp, Dresser & McKee be selected by Council as its
second choice. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilman
Wargo voted NO.
There was a discussion regarding the third choice. Councilwoman Bennington said Frank
Marshall wrote the specifications and she feels it was a conflict. Councilmen Asting
and Spencer disagreed with this. Councilwoman Bennington noted that Frank Marshall
was the engineer when they went out for bid. Councilman Spencer pointed out that
Frank Marshall asked the Council if they had any objection to joining in a joint venture
and Council did not voice any objection. Councilwoman Bennington said the three firms
going as one firm would be a disadvantage to the City. There was a discussion about
Frank Marshall's previous employment with the City.
Councilman Asting moved that Blount, Sikes, Bouck and Rockett be the #3 choice.
Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Motion DID NOT CARRY 2-3. Mayor Ledbetter,
Councilman Wargo, and Councilwoman Bennington voted NO.
Councilwoman Bennington moved to go with Dyer, Riddle, Mills and Precourt as #3 choice.
Councilman Wargo seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 3-2. Councilmen Asting and Spencer
voted NO.
Councilman Spencer moved to adjourn. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Meeting
was adjourned at 3:35 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
-7- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
Apri 1 13, 1984
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-8- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
April 13, 1984