03-29-1984 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING & WORKSHOP
MARCH 29, 1984
MINUTES
Mayor David Ledbetter called the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at lO:OOAM
in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor David Ledbetter
Councilman Melbourne Wargo
Councilwoman Gigi Bennington
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman Jack Spencer
City Attorney Jose' Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Chief Ed Overman
Present
Excused
Present
Present
Also present were Mr. Frank Marshall, part-time City Engineer, and Mr. David Garrett,
Recreational Director/Building and Maintenance Superintendent.
Councilman Asting moved to recess the Special Meeting and go into the Workshop.
Councilwoman Bennington seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Review Agreement with Frank Marshall, part-time City Engineer - Councilman Spencer
noted that the Council had requested a workshop due to the fact that they were con-
sidering the possibility of changing the hourly rate to a retainer agreement. He added
that they have to consider the budget limitations. Councilwoman Bennington said there
was $18,000.00 appropriated for the position. Councilman Spencer noted that some of the
site plan work will be charged back to the developers.
There was a discussion on the amount paid to Briley, Wild compared to what was paid to
Frank Marshall. Councilwoman Bennington noted that it would cost about $19,5QO.00 for
the year for Frank Marshall's services, based on what's been paid so far. Mayor
Ledbetter pointed out that the City is locked in with Briley, Wild on the water and
sewer projects, due to ordinance 400.
Councilman Asting asked if Frank Marshall gets any fringe benefits from the City and
Councilman Spencer said no~ and he pointed out that the salaries account is underspent
as of this point in the fiscal year.
Councilman Spencer said that Frank Marshall has done some very good things for the City
in the short time he's been here and for many departments, and for the Planning and
Zoning Board, plus he worked on the application for the Wastewater Grant. He added
that he wants to see Frank's services continued by the City for the balance of this
fiscal year. Councilman Asting said he agreed with that, but he feels that Frank has
been utilized to do many jobs that he shouldn't have to do. Councilman Spencer said
it should be the responsibility of the City Clerk/Administrator to determine what work
he does do and if it requires the skills of a professional engineer.
Councilman Asting asked what they pay an engineer from Briley, Wild. City Clerk Kinsey
said it depends on what type of engineer they use but it's usually between $21. and $41.
an hour and that's from portal to portal.
Councilman Wargo said he feels they need a City Engineer but they need to know what
they have to pay him for a year's work and he doesn't want an open-end contract.
Councilman Asting suggested a comparison with other cities. Councilwoman Bennington
said it's approximately $35,000~ to $36,000. and she inquired around the area and was
told they should be able to get a good engineer for between $25~OOO. and $30,000. a year.
Councilman Asting stated that the City can't pay $40,000. a year for a City Engineer.
Mayor Ledbetter said he doesn't want to compare our City to other cities.
Mr. Marshall pointed out that New Smyrna Beach has a City Engineer for the City and
for the Utilities Commission and they have a technician and a secretary. He said
Edgewater has been using engineering services in Planning and for subdivision review
and in the Utilities Department. He said he feels the City needs a staff engineer or
someone to coordinate the particular functions that will need a professional engi~eer.
He added that some of the things he's been doing could be done by someone on staff that
doesn't have an engineering degree.
Mayor Ledbetter said they have a part-time City Engineer and a consulting engineering
firm and they are duplicating some of the services there. Mr. Marshall clarified what
the consulting engineers have been reviewing up to this point and said stormwater calcu-
lations are a main interest.
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Review Agreement with Frank Marshall, part-time City Engineer - (cont'd) -
Mr. Marshall noted that when he was first interviewed he had proposed a sliding
contract with a different amount as he sometimes charges less because some items
don't require a professional engineer. He added that they were in a catch-up
game but now have reached a point where he doesn't think he'll be charging the
amount as before. Councilman Asting asked if a Superintendent would be capable
of doing some of this work and Mr. Marshall said in most cities the people on the
staff are concerned with operation and maintenance of facilities, and the City
Engineer is relied on to handle capital improvements.
Mr. Walter Gross, from the audience, said the City had an engineer previously and he
went to the City of South Daytona and works 40 hours a week or more and gets $25,000.
a year. He added that the City shouldnlt try to spend any surplus money and there
isn't always 20 hours of work a week.
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Councilman Spencer stated that nobody on Council had indicated they wanted to spend
money just because itls in the budget, but the money is available for things they need
to do, and the City doesnlt have to look for 20 hours a week. He added that Sam Tucker
was semi-retired when he worked for our City. He said that the City will need a full
time engineer in the future and he thinks they should consider Frank Marshall for the
balance of this fiscal year as he can handle the needs capably. He added that when they
start the budgeting process they need to plan to provide for a full time engineer if
they feel it's necessary. There was a discussion between Councilman Spencer and Mr.
Gross regarding Sam Tucker's position.
Councilman Wargo requested Mayor Ledbetter stop the interruption of Council by the
audience. Mr. Gross questioned if the public had a right to participate in the workshop.
Mayor Ledbetter said he has not objection to public input that is beneficial. Mr.
Gross asked if the Council has any objections. Councilman ~Jargo pointed out that they
were not there to be polled and Mr. Gross had been allowed to have his say and they
shouldn't have to argue with the audience.
Councilman Spencer said the salary for someone on a city staff has to be compared to
Frank Marshall IS as he receives no City benefits and has to pay his own liability
insurance with no vehicle or travel expenses provided. Mayor Ledbetter said he realized
Frank has to post a bond with the City regarding mistakes but it comes under the cate-
gory of having his own business. He suggested the Council retain Frank Marshall on a
30-day basis and advertise for a part-time City Enginer the same as for the consulting
engineer. Councilman Wargo said held like to discuss the hiring of a full-time City
Engineer with the total cost for salary of fringe benefits of about $40,000.
Councilwoman Bennington noted that the main question is what theylre going to pay
him. Mr. Marshall said he can accomplish what is needed on the $2,000.00 per month but
some of the work will have to be given to someone with less qualifications. Council-
woman Bennington asked how many hours held worked in the past two weeks and Mr. Marshall
said it was only about 12 hours and it slowed down since he finished the Wastewater
grant application. Mr. Marshall added that it costs him $40.00 an hour to run his
business and he doesn't charge for his travel time and is interested in the community.
City Clerk Kinsey noted that Frank Marshall had worked as high as 25 to 27 hours a
week at first as there were many administrative procedures to be handled but now some
of these items are being handled by the staff because they're familiar with it.
Councilman Asting asked if the hours have been cut back and City Clerk Kinsey said
the last bill was for 12 hours for two weeks. Mr. Marshall pointed out that the big
item had been the Wastewater grant application.
Councilman Spencer pointed out that in regard to the grant application, he had written
to the State legislators and given a copy to Council and he encouraged other Council
members to do the same.
Councilwoman Bennington asked if secretarial help is being provided and Mr. Marshall
said about one-half he furnishes and helll take care of all the secretarial work but
he pays someone piece work to do it and then keeps his own files. Councilman Asting
asked if the City can continue to furnish secretarial support and City Clerk Kinsey
said itls been a very small amount up to this point and hasnlt been a problem. Mayor
Ledbetter noted that the City Attorney only gets $1,000. a month plus $35. an hour
for his legal services and furnishes his own secretary. City Clerk Kinsey clarified
that the City pays $1,000. a month for his secretary. There was a discussion of the
amount paid the City Attorney for recent bills.
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March 29, 1984
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Review Agreement with Frank Marshall, part-time City Engineer (cont'd) -
Councilwoman Bennington asked for an estimate of the hours of work needed based on
the way the work looks now and Mr. Marshall said about 15 hours a week, based on
what he's been doing, and added that he has some things to work on with Terry Wadsworth.
Mayor Ledbetter said that comes under the consulting engineers if it's capacity
that1s involved. Councilman Spencer pointed out that Ordinance 400 just says any
work of that nature shall be done by a professional engineer and Frank Marshall is
a professional engineer, as well as a number of other firms.
Councilman Wargo suggested they go along for the rest of the fiscal year with the
$2,000. a month. Councilwoman Bennington pointed out that it's still $40. an hour.
Mr. Marshall said if they decide on the $2,000. retainer, helll divide it by $40.
and when he gets close to the number of hours he'll try to slow down and move it into
the next month. Mr. Marshall added that he'd told them at his interview that he'd
split the difference from his request of $40. to their proposal of $25. and would work
for the three months at $32.50 but he can't continue to do it for that amount.
Councilwoman Bennington said they can't afford that and Councilman Wargo agreed.
Councilman Spencer disagreed and said Frank Marshall has done a tremendous amount of
good work for the City and they should continue it for the balance of the fiscal year,
and pay him the $40. an hour with the City Clerk/Administrator being responsible to
see that the number of hours doesn't exceed the $2,000. per month. He added that the
last time they advertised for a part-time City Engineer, they got two respondents,
one was John Webb and the other Frank Marshall and Mr. Webb was exceedingly higher
and located in Orlando.
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Councilwoman Bennington noted that they've gone out for consulting engineers and
they'll make a selection and perhaps they can supply an engineer for the City.
Mr. Marshall pointed out that this wouldn1t be permitted under the Consultants Competi-
tive Negotations Act because they advertised for certain projects for water and waste-
water projects but they could re-advertise for a city engineer and then hire that same
firm. Councilman Wargo said he wasn't aware of the cost involved but they need a full-
time engineer especially if there is a surge in developments or building. Mr. Marshall
said the way things look now he felt he could accomplish subdivision reviews and give
Terry Wadsworth the support he needs within the budget they have but he would still be
charging $40. an hour. He added that hels willing to help write the job description
for a full-time City Engineer if the City wants to do that.
Mr. Garrett pointed out that there will be some reimbursement on some of the grants
for Frank's services. Councilman Asting asked what amount was available. Mr. Garrett
said there's about $12,000. in Menard1s project and Mr. Marshall noted that he's only
used about $1,000. so far.
Review details of proposed facilities expansion for City Hall, Police Department, and
Fire Station #1 - Councilman Asting said he thinks they should have members of the
Fire Department and Rescue present and he suggested a special meeting with them.
He added that the Fire Department is preparing plans for a building to be put on the
site next to the Fire Station No.1, and suggested meeting on Tuesday, April 3rd in
the evening to discuss the combining of the two units and review a plan for an EVER
building.
City Clerk Kinsey said the reason she wanted this item reviewed was so they wouldn't
spend a large amount for architect's drawings and then find they are inadequate.
Councilwoman Bennington suggested looking at the other items for expansion and Council-
man Asting said he just wanted to table the one item for Rescue.
Police Chief Ed Overman said in looking over the sketch, the only added space would
be the EVER room and it would require considerable remodeling including a holding
cell, which has to comply with State law. He added that the work area in the office
is impractical and the records clerk's area needs enlarged and the dispatch area needs
10~/ered. He said itls so broken up that remodeling might be a problem for somebody
He added that with the growth in this area, this will be inadequate in 4 or 5 years.
Councilman Asting stated that they hope to build a new Police station in those 4 or
5 years.
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March 29, 1984
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Review details of ro osed facilities ex ansion for Cit Hall, Police De artment,
and Fire Station #1 - cont'd - Councilman Asting asked if architects would know
how to prepare a plan that would provide facilities that would comply and Chief
Overman said there are some people that do that. There was a discussion between
Councilman Asting and Chief Overman regarding ways it could be remodeled. Council-
woman Bennington said they should build a new building rather than try to remodel.
Councilman Wargo said the first priority should be the Police Department because
of its condition and the toilet facilities there. Mayor Ledbetter asked how they
could fund this and Councilman Asting said the building proposed by the Fire Depart-
ment could be paid for by donations by civic organizations. Councilwoman Bennington
said therels really no place to build a new Police station. Councilman Asting said
held like to have the Police station in this area because of the money kept in City
Hall. Chief Overman agreed that the Police station should be close to City Hall.
Councilwoman Bennington suggested a second floor and Chief Overman said most Police
Departments are on the ground floor. Councilwoman Bennington suggested moving City
Hall staff upstairs and have Police on the ground floor.
Councilman Asting asked the number of additional square feet the expansion would give
the Police Department. Councilman Spencer said it would be about 840 square feet.
Councilman Spencer asked if they can get an architect to look at the facilities and
talk to the Chief and have a sketch plan and then get a cost to remodel compared to
what it would cost to provide a new facility. Councilwoman Bennington said yes and
they'll have more money involved in remodeling and additions than doing an entirely
new building.
Mayor Ledbetter suggested using the property on the north side of the building that
the City bought. City Clerk Kinsey said this would present a parking problem and
Mayor Ledbetter said the employees could park elsewhere, and they could check into
expanding to the north or the second story of the building. Councilman Wargo pointed
out that he's seen Police facilities on higher floors.
Councilwoman Bennington asked what square footage the Police station would need and
Chief Overman said held research it, and they need space for parking for employees
and for the public.
City Clerk Kinsey asked Councilman Spencer about the grant status and Councilman
Spencer said he was unable to find any grant available for that purpose. City Clerk
Kinsey asked Chief Overman if he could make some contacts and Chief Overman said he
could and that they built their building on a grant five years ago.
Councilman Spencer said in view of the fact that there will be additional information ~i
he thinks they should defer further consideration and not get any architectls bid now.
Councilman Wargo suggested getting input from the public to see if they want a new
Police station. Councilman Spencer said he felt they should have some type of plan
or alternatives and the funding and then present it to the public.
Councilman Spencer moved to return to the Special Meeting. Councilman Asting seconded
the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0. Mayor Ledbetter called the special meeting back in
session.
Councilman Spencer moved that relative to building construction that they TABLE future
discussion until they have a meeting with the Fire Department, Rescue and Police
Chief. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting suggested the meeting with EVER and the Fire Department should
include discussing merging their facilities. Councilwoman Bennington suggested having
just the department heads participate in the meeting and Council members agreed.
There was a discussion as to the date for the meeting. City Clerk Kinsey said she
would check and get back to Council with a date.
Councilman Spencer moved that they retain Frank Marshall as a part-time City Engineer
for the balance of this fiscal year with his pay to be $40. an hour but not to exceed
$2,000. per month. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Councilman Asting noted
that there are certain engineering functions that are going to happen in the near
future such as grants, that will need Frank Marshall's engineering advice concerning
them. Motion DID NOT CARRY 2-3. Councilman Wargo, Councilwoman Bennington, and Mayor
Ledbetter voted NO.
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March 29, 7984
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Councilman Spencer asked if there was an alternative proposal. Councilwoman
Bennington said it's not Frank Marshall or his job that she objects to, but to the
salary. She said since they already went out for bids on consulting engineers, they
can wait until they select the firm and then advertise for part-time.
Mayor Ledbetter suggested extending Frank Marshall for another 30 days until they
decide what they're going to do. Councilwoman Bennington said he's already told them
he can't work for the $32.50. Mr. Marshall said held extended for two weeks and he
can't extend for 30 days more. Councilman Asting said he doesn't want to see their
grant application in jeopardy and it will be if Frank Marshall is terminated, and the
money in grants is well worth it.
Councilwoman Bennington moved that as soon as they select an engineering firm they
re-advertise for a part-time City Engineer. Councilman Wargo seconded the motion.
Councilman Spencer said he thinks the Council is making a big mistake because they
won't find a part-time City Engineer that will charge less, and they're cutting off
very fine engineering service and he's very much opposed to it. Councilman Asting
said he agreed with Councilman Spencer. Councilwoman Bennington said Frank Marshall
has been doing a good job but she's opposed to the $40. an hour. Councilman Spencer
pointed out that they paid Lorin Coppock $15,000. for three months I work. Councilman
Wargo said they can't afford him. Motion CARRIED 3-2. Councilmen Asting and Spencer
voted NO.
City Clerk Kinsey asked what the Council wants to do for engineering services and
Councilwoman Bennington said they can use Briley, Wild. Councilman Asting again stated
that he didn't want the grant applicationsto be in jeopardy and Frank Marshall said
he didn't think they would be.
Councilman Spencer moved to adjourn the meeting. Councilwoman Bennington seconded
the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 11 :35 A.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
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CITY CLERK
Approved thi s If" Y.h. day of
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-5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
March 29, 1984