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01-18-1984 - Workshop l~~ 4 o Q CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER WORKSHOP OF JANUARY 18, 1984 MINUTES Mayor David Ledbetter called the Workshop to order at 10:OOAM in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor David Ledbetter Present Councilman Jack Spencer Councilman Melbourne Wargo Present City Attorney Jose' Alvarez Councilv/oman Gigi Bennington Present City Clerk Connie Kinsey Councilman Neil Asting Present Police Chief Earl Baugh Mayor David Ledbetter said the purpose of the workshop was to discuss the Refuse and Street Departments equipment needs and purchases. Present Excused Present Present Mr. Earl Copeland, Superintendent of Public Works, was also present. City Clerk Kinsey stated that they'd received a proposal for repairing the existing transfer trailer. The proposal was from Blanton Fabrication and Welding Co. in the amounts of $6,508.00 if repairs are completed in a three day period or $5,808.00 if repairs are made in ten normal working days. Councilman Asting asked Mr. L. E. Blanton, Jr. of the Fabrication company if the difference in cost is due to the extra hours put in by personnel. Mr. Blanton said it would be overtime hours and the rental of equipment and added that they'd do it over a week-end because the City needs the trailer on a daily basis. He said they'd have to be welding inside to get it done in a week-end an~ would have to rent a fork lift for moving. Councilman Asting asked where he'd be doing the work and Mr. Blanton said he'd do it in his shop on Marion Avenue. Councilman Asting questioned if the City has the welding equipment for this job but Mr. Copeland said not for this type of project. Mayor Ledbetter questioned if it could be completed in one week-end. Mr. Blanton said he would need a Friday, Saturday and Sunday or a Saturday, Sunday and Monday as it would take three days. Mr. Copeland said they could haul garbage Monday through Thursday and take it over to him on a Thursday afternoon when they finish for the day and leave it there until Monday morning. Mr. Blanton said heavy rain or extreme weather conditions could delay the repairs as he'd stated in his proposals. Councilman Asting asked if the work could be done in installments but Mr. Blanton said he couldn't give them a price that way because of the scheduling of the work just when the trailer was available. Councilman Wargo asked why they couldn't use galvanized sheets instead of cold rolled steel. Mr. Blanton said they could but they'd have to grind it off over the welds and there are a couple of procedures to do that. Councilman Wargo said they'd have a better rust preventer then with cold rolled and asked how they would fix the rust spots. Mr. Blanton said it would be patched over where required and they'd reline the inside and then patch over the rust holes. Councilwoman Bennington noted that there is rust between the support posts. Mr. Blanton said they'd cover over that with a piece of metal and weld it all around. Councilwoman Bennington asked how long the repairs would last, and Mr. Blanton said that's hard to say. Councilman Asting asked the gauge of the metal he's going to use and Mr. Blanton said it's the same gauge as now and where it's not rusted away, they'll be doubling the side walls. Mr. Copeland noted that they have to watch the weight and Mr. Blanton said it would be about 3,200 lbs.. Mr. Copeland said the trailer doesn't have a frame underneath it and the sides are the frame and the bottom could buckle. Mr. Blanton noted that the vertical posts are part of the sheets. Councilman Asting asked if adding the 3,200 lbs. was permissible. Mr. Copeland said yes as they judge the weight by the axles under the trailer and the most they haul is 72,000 lbs. Councilman Asting asked if that would effect the towing ability of the tractor and Mr. Copeland said no. Councilwoman Bennington asked if this trailer was new in 1980 and Mr. Copeland said he thought it was November of 1980. Councilwoman Bennington asked if this rust is common and what the normal life span is. Mr. Copeland said that's normal for the rust and he had gone to Ormond Beach and they'd told him if they got four years out of theirs, they'd consider themselves lucky. Mayor Ledbetter noted that this is due to the acidity of the product they're hauling and it's similar to the galvanized garbage cans used in homes. Mr. Copeland said the bottom isn't a problem because it's elevated and it drains to the back which has a drain cap. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they could get a liner to protect the sides. Mr. Copeland said he didn't know how they'd fasten it in there. Councilwoman Bennington said if there's a liner available they must have a way to fasten it. Councilman Asting noted they'd be lining this with the extra sheets put in. Councilwoman Bennington said she realized they'd be reinforcing it. .~ o o Councilman Asting asked Mr. Blanton how long they estimated this to last and Mr. Blanton said it should last at least as long as the original. Mr. Copeland said he thought there were thirteen panels that were bad. Councilman Wargo noted that they'll recap all the spots that are necessary. Mayor Ledbetter said he agreed to going with this rather than buying a new one at this time. Mr. Copeland said he's been thinking of painting it inside with zinc chromate and do it about every four to six months. Councilman Asting noted that it should prolong the life. Councilman Wargo asked if this would be wire feed welding and Mr. Blanton said it would be. Councilman Spencer asked if this was brand new in 1980 and Mr. Copeland said yes. Councilman Spencer then asked when they would need a second trailer. Mr. Copeland said they need to be thinking of it now but from 1982 to 1983 they hauled twelve extra loads but he looks for the garbage business to pick up in the next year or two. He added that from September 1, 1983, to January 6, 1984, they picked up 175 new garbage customers and are still operating with the same men and same equipment. He said they hauled 263 loads to Tomoka in 1982 and 275 loads in 1983. Councilman Spencer asked if the maximum number is three per day and Mr. Copeland said that1s all they can make in one day. Councilman Spencer asked if the landfill is open later in the day and Mr. Copeland said he thought it was until 5:00 and are open Saturdays. Councilman Spencer said he doesn1t feel they need to buy a second trailer now but maybe six months or a year from now it will be necessary. Mr. Copeland said with the chain drive mech- anism they can only get parts from California if a motor goes and the trailer would be tied up for that period of time. There was a discussion as to whether some parts should be purchased ahead and stored for emergencies. Councilman Asting asked if there is any way to transport it if the motor breaks down and Councilman Spencer said they could use the large truck they bought last year for the trips. Councilman Wargo asked how long it takes to make the trip with the big truck. Mr. Copeland said if the man doesn't get tied up in a waiting line they figure two hours for each trip. He noted that they're going to start weighing all trucks and that will take more time plus they'll charge according to the weight. He said this would escalate what they pay for the dumping also. Councilman Wargo said they have to start thinking seriously about getting another trailer and they have to get this one repaired. Mr. Copeland said they'll also have to do something about trash disposal as they've been burning it. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they stay with the subject of garbage for now. There was a further discussion about the availability of parts and it was recommended that Mr. Copeland contact the trailer supplier to find a source. Councilman Spencer noted that if they buy a new trailer it would give them some flexibility and they wouldn't have to keep parts in stock. Councilman Asting said he didn't see why they'd buy a new trailer now. Mr. Copeland said they have to be thinking about it for the future. Councilman Asting noted that they should get at least two or three more years out of this one. City Clerk Kinsey said that besides keeping this trailer running, they also need two at the same time. Councilman Asting stated that a lot of people are down here from the North now but they'll leave in the Spring and the garbage will be down. Mayor Ledbetter said he felt they need to keep the piece of equipment up that they have now and Council can discuss buying one later. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they'll need another tractor to pull it if they buy another trailer and Mr. Copeland said yes. Mayor Ledbetter said if they buy another tractor and trailer they'll need more personnel and he reviewed the procedure that is used now. He noted that there isn1t enough money now to purchase a new trailer, and that's what they're charging the ~eople the 50~ a month for. Councilman Asting asked for clarification if this is considered an emergency. Council- woman Bennington said it has been existing for six months and she didn't see how they could consider it an emergency. Mayor Ledbetter asked Mr. Copeland if he considered the traileron the highway to be endangering the people. Mr. Copeland said no. Mr. Copeland asked Mr. Blanton about the stress on the trailer and Mr. Blanton said there's no frame, it1s just the sides, and if one panel should go all the way through, the trailer would break in half. He said he didn1t know when it would break but he feels there is wear along the sides. -2- Council Workshop Minutes January 18, 1984 " -\ o o Councilman Asting said they need to get the trailer repaired as soon as possible and if they have to go out for bids it would further delay the repair and it should be put on the agenda for Monday night to make a decision. Councilman Spencer said he appreciated the estimate but the City is obligated to ask for bids. Councilwoman Bennington noted that they can waive that right. Councilman Spencer said that was if it's an emergency and he feels it would be appropriate to get bids as he didn't think it's a dire emergency situation. Councilman Asting asked if he'd accept the responsibility for a problem and Councilwoman Bennington noted that they all have to assume the responsibility. Councilman Wargo suggested buying a new trailer and taking bids on this for repair. Councilwoman Bennington said they have to go out for bids to buy a new trailer also. Councilman Asting said he didn't feel they should buy a new trailer at this time. Councilman Spencer said that other fabricators should have the opportunity to bid on the repair of the equipment. Councilwoman Bennington said she agrees and asked hovl long the rusting has been going on. Mr. Copeland said they really noticed the pin holes around Thanksgiving. Councilwoman Bennington asked if it had got that bad just since Thanksgiving and Mr. Copeland said yes. Councilwoman Bennington said if they went from pinholes at Thanksgiving to where it is now, it would be reasonably safe to think that by the time they go out for bids the whole panel could cave in. She said they should have done this a month or two ago instead of waiting until this point. Councilman Asting said he saw it two weeks ago and it's just coming before them now. Mayor Ledbetter said the City Clerk can check with the City Attorney to see if the funds from the equipment reserve can be used and check the ordinance and report back to the Council on Monday night as to whether it can go on an emergency basis and waive the bidding process. Councilwoman Bennington said that emergency and they shouldn't have preparing for the other trailer. repairs and they suggested lining everything that comes to Council seems to be an to make decisions by crises, and they need to start Councilman Wargo said he was told the trailer needed it on the inside. Councilwoman Bennington said this isn't an emergency but they have a special situation that needs attention, and they need to consider buying another trailer in the next fiscal budget. Councilman Asting noted that in the meantime they'll be accumulating more funds. Councilman Spencer said he'd seen the trailer two or three weeks ago and he didn't feel it was in imminent danger at that time, but he knew it had to be repaired and he'll look at it again. Councilman Asting said they need to consider the construction of the trailer and the fact that it has no frame. Councilwoman Bennington said they need to determine an alternative for the money if they're told they can't use that money to repair the trailer and can waive the procedures. Councilman Asting noted that there's $17,000. unappropriated in Federal Revenue Sharing. City Clerk Kinsey said that would take several weeks because of public hearings. Mayor Ledbetter said they don't go into funds of unappropriated reserves and Councilman Spencer said it can be appropriated but requires a special hearing. Councilwoman Bennington noted that under Federal Revenue Sharing they don't have to break it down .sactly and they have $70,000.00 for Street. City Clerk Kinsey noted that this is Refuse. Councilman Asting said the $44,000.00 accumulated for equipment reserve is Refuse. City Clerk Kinsey said there's $7,000.00 left in vehicle repairs. Mr. Copeland asked Mr. Blanton what kind of a notice he'd need to do the work and Mr. Blanton said they store the materials but not in that quantity so he'd need a three- day notice to get it lined up. Mr. Copeland noted that Mr. Blanton had asked to give him a chance to build a trailer before they buy a new one. Mr. Blanton said he could give them a price on this. City Clerk Kinsey said they could get a proposal now and be looking at it. Councilman Spencer said if they buy a new one they'll go out for bids and he didn't feel it was in Mr. Blanton's best interests to furnish a price as other bidders would come in lower. Mayor Ledbetter agreed that it wouldn't be fair to Mr. Blanton. -3- Council Workshop Minutes January 18, 1984 -. o o Mr. Copeland said that there are very few places that are building a trailer like this and Councilwoman Bennington asked if they have to buy that particular trailer. City Clerk Kinsey noted that it has special connections to the tractor. Council- woman Bennington suggested that if they buy a new rig they shouldn't have to go with this type of trailer. Mr. Copeland said Ormond Beach went out for bids on some and the lowest bids were for the same trailer that we have and theylre very satisfied with it. There was a discussion as to whether they would buy just a new trailer or a trailer and tractor rig, and if there is updated equipment. Councilman Asting stated that the repair of the trailer will be on the agenda for Monday night and asked Mr. Blanton if the repair is given to him, how long will it take to get started. Mr. Blanton said he gets materials delivered on Fridays so it would be better to have it on a Saturday, Sunday and Monday and held just need to know it by a Wednesday. Mr. Copeland said Monday is their heaviest day and held prefer it on a Friday. Mayor Ledbetter said they need to let the people know if there isn't going to be a pickup by placing an advertisement in the newspaper. Councilman Spencer asked Mr. Blanton the type of work he does and his experience. Mr. Copeland noted that he'd just done all the work at the Water Department on the filter media. Mr. Blanton said hels worked at the Wastewater plant and he passed around photos of a job he'd done about a month ago on this same type of project. Councilman Spencer asked what kind of welding would be involved and Mr. Blanton said it would be a wire feed welding that is continuously fed through a gun. Council members thanked Mr. . Blanton for coming and talking with them. City Clerk Kinsey said she had a list of the vehicle equipment needs and the next item would be the grader. She noted that there is approximately $25,000.00 appropriated in Federal Revenue Sharing for a used grader. Councilman Spencer added that there was money set aside for a backhoe also. City Clerk Kinsey said there was $45,000.00 for a backhoe, $25,000.00 for a used grader, and $9,000.00 for a tractor. City Clerk Kinsey said she'd talked to the Finance officer in New Smyrna Beach about a lease-purchase and they had just purchased a $100,000.00 fire truck on a lease purchase and the interest rates run from 9% to 11%. She said there are about 8 companies in the business of lease purchase and it has to be mentioned in the bids in the specifications that it will be a lease purchase. She added that they hold the title to the equipment and they own it. Councilman Spencer noted that they would get the tax break and that's why they give the low rate. Councilwoman Bennington said that they get a break for dealing with the City also. Councilwoman Bennington said she'd talked with Mr. Alex Kish of Brent Millikan about using money for collateral and held advised her that they don't use it as collater.al because they're a municipality. She said she1d asked what theyld do if they didn't have enough money and he said they could enter into the agreement and at the end of the year they re-appropriate the next year's payments and if they decide not to buy the equipment, they don't have to appropriate it and can discontinue the leasing. She added that they can also re-negotiate with a different company to pick up the agreement. City Clerk Kinsey noted that theyld keep the same equipment but negotiate the contract. Councilwoman Bennington said she felt it would be feasible to purchase this way and a lot of cities are doing it. Councilman Spencer said he felt the Council wouldnlt want to buy a $25,000.00 grader and he was all for buying a good piece of equipment to get good service. Councilman Asting said the size of the down payment would determine the amount of interest they'd have to pay. Councilwoman Bennington noted that the interest they'd earn from keeping the money on deposit could be used for making payments. City Clerk Kinsey said they could use it for the down payment and then use General Fund funds to finish paying it and the auditors had advised her that there'd be no problem with that. Councilman Asting asked if there'd be a refund if it were paid off early and City Clerk Kinsey said you wouldn't be paying the interest. Councilman Spencer questioned if they want to ask for bids for only new equipment or for equipment that is one or two years old and he referred to previous bids for new and used equipment. Councilman Asting said they should go out for bids specifying new or nearly new grader. Councilwoman Bennington suggested setting an hourly use on it or no later than 1982. Councilman Asting said he agreed with used equipment purchases. Councilman Spencer noted that there's a mixture of bids when they're asking for new or used and the lowest would probably be the oldest. Councilwoman Bennington said they don't have to accept the lowest bid. Councilman Spencer stated that they have to if it's a responsible bidder and they shouldn't ask for bids to be submitted if they arenlt interested in it. There was a discussion about the bids that were received for the last equipment. -4- Council Workshop Minutes January 18, 1984 , , -, o o Mr. Copeland said held like to include in the specifications that the grader has "a clear view of the blade". Councilwoman Bennington noted that they can't include some- thing that specifically rules out a bidder. Councilman Spencer said they can if it's something required on the equipm~nt. Councilman Wargo said that's what specifications are for. Councilman Spencer said it seems reasonable to ask for a clear view of the blades from a sitting position and he suggested Mr. Copeland get the specifications and determine if there will be only new equipment or something almost new. Councilman Asting asked if the last bid had certain specifications and Mr. Copeland said he didn't write any for that. Councilman Asting suggested writing the advertisement the same way. Councilwoman Bennington noted that they were looking for used on~last time also. Councilman Spencer noted that there was not a lot of difference in the amounts between the used and new equipment bids. Councilwoman Bennington asked for clarification as to whether they just want bids for new equipment. Councilman Asting said it will be on the agenda also. Councilman Spencer said they also need to have the financing or a lease purchase agreement. Councilman Wargo said he needs to know more about that. Councilwoman Bennington suggested contacting the people on the list and get their literature. Councilman Wargo questioned how they'd make payments and Councilwoman Bennington said they can use the $25,000.00 budgeted for this year and next year theylll appropriate money for that payment. Councilman Wargo questioned how the interest would be calcul- ated. Councilwoman Bennington said it would be added yearly. Councilman Wargo said held like more information on yearly declining interest. Mayor Ledbetter said he didn't want to see a piece of equipment bought and have $8,000.00 or $9,000.00 in interest in two or three years. Councilwoman Bennington noted that they put the $25,000.00 from Federal Revenue Sharing in deposit drawing interest so they could use the interest drawn from the $25,000.00 to pay the interest from financing. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that they could make monthly payments also if they want. Councilman Wargo said he isn't in favor of buying it on time and if they have enough money to buy the grader, they should buy it. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that they don't have the money for it. Councilman Wargo said held rather buy a grader now and pay for it and then buy a backhoe for next year. Councilman Spencer noted that therels enough money for a backhoe. Mr. Copeland said held called two places for tractor equipment and with an extend-a-hoe it was $37,000.00 for a Ford tractor and $39,500.00 for a Case tractor. He added that both gave him a price of $5,000.00 for the old equipment which would be knocked off those estimates. Councilman Wargo noted that this would be some money left over from the $45,000.00 budgeted. City Clerk Kinsey said there would be no problem with using it on the other piece of equipment. Councilman Wargo questioned if they should buy the tractor first. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that they need the backhoe also. Councilman Wargo noted that they'd then know how much money is available for the grader. Mr. Copeland stated that the backhoe is in very bad condition. Councilman Spencer said they need the grader but he also would like to have the amount that is fully available and possibly there'd be another $10,000.00 to apply to a grader to reduce the financing cost. Councilman Asting said they could go out for bids on a backhoe. Councilwoman Bennington suggested they go out for bids on a grader and have Mr. Alex Kish explain the interest arrangement. She said they could buy the backhoe and the money thatls left could apply to the grader. Councilman Wargo questioned why they can't go out for bids on both. Councilman Spencer said they need a source of money first. Councilman Wargo suggested going out for bids on both and financing the grader. City Clerk Kinsey said she couldn't certify that funds are available. Councilwoman Bennington asked if they have any money from Federal Revenue Sharing and City Clerk Kinsey said there's about $50,000.00. Councilwoman Bennington questioned when the next payment would be and City Clerk Kinsey said it would be about March. Council members agreed to go for authorization of bids for a grader and a backhoe. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that there's some good used equipment around. Councilman Spencer said the used equipment was about $5,000.00 less before but for that size an expenditure he felt they should buy a new piece of equipment. Councilman Wargo stated that they don1t have to make a selection the night the bids are opened. -5- Council Workshop Minutes January 18, 1984 . ~ o o City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that the blown engine on the 1977 dump truck would possibly be over $1,000.00 and said that there's $10,000.00 in repairs and asked Council's authorization to put this on the agenda for Monday night. Council members agreed to this. City Clerk Kinsey stated that the City mechanic owned his own tools and he is leaving and it will be quite expensive to replace the tools. Councilman Asting asked if Mr. Copeland had checked the prices and Mr. Copeland said he stopped at Sears and they have a good line of tools but it's more like what you'd use in your own home workshop. Councilwoman Bennington suggested making it a prerequisite for the new mechanic to furnish his own tools. Councilman Wargo said he didn't feel they could do that with what they're willing to pay. Councilman Spencer asked what amount they had in mind. City Clerk Kinsey said it would be about $5,000.00 for basic necessities and that doesn't cover everything. Mr. Copeland reviewed the few tools they do have. Councilwoman Bennington commented that she didn't know the mechanic was leaving until she read it in the newspaper and she felt Council should be advised when it's a key person. Mr. Copeland noted that he couldn't say anything until he got it in writing. Councilman Asting asked about the tool set at Sears for about $2,500.00. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that at that cost they'd have to go out for bid. There was a dis- cussion between Councilman Asting and Mr. Copeland regarding the quality and prices of Snap-on tools. Mayor Ledbetter questioned whose responsibility the tools would be and Mr. Copeland said they were kept locked up at at all times before. Councilwoman Bennington said the mechanic would be responsible and they should set rigid rules and procedures. Councilman Spencer asked how they'd pay for the tools and City Clerk Kinsey said they have $12,000.00 in the machinery and equipment fund for Public Works. There was a discussion about whether this would be a special condition or an emergency, and it was decided that it was an emergency since they have no tools and the mechanic is leaving. Council members agreed that the set for $2,499.00 would be a good starter set to build around. Mr. Copeland said they need a three-quarter drive impact wrench and they're using an adapter now. Council members agreed he could purchase that since it's under $1,000.00. Mayor Ledbetter suggested they call to see if they can go through the Commercial department. City Clerk Kinsey noted that they have a junked dump truck. Mr. Copeland said that was already junked and it was the 1967. Mayor Ledbetter pointed out that they sold it for $420.00. Mr. Copeland said they had four and one was junked and one blew an engine so repairing the engine will give them three. Mayor Ledbetter said they'll have to make do with what they have for now. Councilwoman Bennington suggested to Mr. Copeland that he make the mechanic responsible for the tools and have the people sign it out to know who had it last. Mr. Copeland assured Council that the mechanic will know that he is responsible for those tools. There was a discussion about using an engraver on the tools for identification. Councilman Wargo suggested using a stamper. Councilman Asting moved to adjourn the workshop. Councilman Spencer seconded the motion. Workshop adjourned at 11:46 AM. Minutes submitted by: Lura Sue Koser -6- Council Workshop Minutes January 18, 1984