10-23-1985 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP
OCTOBER 23, 1985
MINUTES
Mayor Baugh called the meeting to order at 3:02 P.M. in the Community Center.
He stated the purpose of the meeting was to discuss, and possibly take action
on~ the bike path.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Earl Baugh
Councilman Louis Rotundo
Councilman Russell Prater
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman James Inman
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Martinez
Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Also present were Mr. Earl Copeland, Public Works Superintendent, and Mr. David
Garrett, Recreation Director/Buildings and Grounds Maintenance Superintendent.
Mayor Baugh suggested they stay in the special meeting and no Council member
expressed an objection.
Councilman Rotundo stated they have a proposal from City Engineer Gerry Ferrara
and he's proposing the City do some of the work themselves for setting forms and
then going out for bids to pour the concrete. Councilman Asting asked if it
could be asphalt instead of concrete. Councilman Rotundo said the possible reason
for concrete was for preparation and once it's down, it's easier. Mr. Copeland
pointed out it's simpler with concrete than with asphalt because they'll be
working off the side of the road. Mayor Baugh asked if it's the north side of
Park Avenue and Councilman Rotundo said that seems to be the most feasible because
the south side will require poles to be moved and there are retention ponds at
Waco. Mayor Baugh said Dale or John Street will have to be taken into consideration
on the north side.
Councilman Prater asked the width and Councilman Rotundo replied it's five feet
wide and 4" thick, and where the road goes in, the sidewalk could be strengthened
to 6". Mayor Baugh pointed out there will be a lot of people working there and
a lot of trucks on John Street when they put in the college.
City Clerk Martinez pointed out the three laning of Park Avenue is in the dis-
cussion stages with the County and asked if they'd put back the bike path or restore
it if it's disturbed. Mr. Copeland asked about the railroad. Councilman
Asting asked if they'd expand on both sides of Park if they three-lane it and
Mr. Copeland said he thinks so.
Councilman Asting asked how close the poles are to the present paved road and
Mr. Copeland said it's 5 to 7 feet. Councilman Asting asked how wide it
will be with three lanes and Mayor Baugh replied it will be about 60 feet.
Mr. Copeland said it might be just 30 to 35 feet, and they'll need deceleration
lanes. Mayor Baugh stated that he doesn't want to put something in like
this and in a year or two years, they'll tear it up. Councilman Rotundo said
it's not in the stages for the next five years. Mr. Copeland stated that it's
been proposed now. City Clerk Martinez pointed out that when they open John
Street, that could speed up the project when more traffic is there.
Councilman Inman asked if it's a bike path or a sidewalk and Mayor Baugh
said it's the same thing. Councilman Inman said he didn't know a County
would ask to have a curb along the sidewalk and they want a curb for the
bike path. Councilman Rotundo stated that they went according to County spec's
and that was how the bids went out. City Clerk Martinez said she thought Gerry
Ferrara changed the wording to go along with the County.
Councilman Inman asked if it's legal to take the money from parks and recreation
if it's a sidewalk instead of a bike path. Councilman Asting said a sidewalk
needs curbing. Councilman Rotundo stated that it's 10 feet to the back side
off the road and the sidewalk is 5 feet wide and will be 5 ~eet from the road.
Mayor Baugh pointed out that if a road is put in there, the bike path will
be in the middle of the third lane. Councilman Rotundo said they might as
well forget the bike path if they put another lane in. Mr. Copeland noted
that it's just a proposal, the same as 6-laning U.S.Ul.
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Councilman Rotundo stated they're contemplating a bike path to get the
children from Wildwood to school the safest way they can and this is the
only way they know to get them to Flagler. Councilman Asting pointed out
that traffic control has to be at Flagler and Councilman Rotundo agreed.
Mayor Baugh stated that the County will have to provide a crossing guard.
City Clerk Martinez pointed out that the County will not provide a guard,
they provide school guards and it's up to the City to provide law enforcement
personnel. There was a discussion about the route the children would take.
Councilman Rotundo pointed out they have school patrols at the railroad tracks.
Mr. Copeland noted that a patrolman is there also.
Councilman Asting agreed the bike path would reduce the chances of someone
getting hurt. Councilman Rotundo said that's the only reason they're doing
this and asked if someone had another alternative to get to 12th Street or
across City property. He noted this seems to be the most feasible and least
expensive. Mayor Baugh asked about coming across Doris Massey's property.
City Clerk Martinez replied they'd have to pave it and it's a farther distance.
Councilman Asting pointed out they'd be riding through a partly wooded area,
which would be dangerous. Councilman Rotundo stated there are 25 to 30 children
from Wildwood and a lot of the parents won't let them go on Park Avenue and
they drive them back and forth to school, but some have to work and can't.
Mayor Baugh asked if there would be someone at Wildwood to get them across.
City Clerk Martinez replied they'd need two to go to the north side and back
over to the south side. Councilman Asting said the $8,000. cost for the guards
couldn't be paid out of recreation and City Clerk Martinez said no. Councilman
Rotundo said he thought the price is a little high. Councilman Asting asked
if volunteers could be used and City Clerk Martinez replied no, due to the
Fair Labor Standards Act. Councilman Rotundo said they can't just put stripes
across the road and City Clerk Martinez said the mothers won't let them cross
the road that way. Councilman Rotundo suggested someone for one hour in the
morning and evening on both ends to get them across. City Clerk Martinez pointed
out the School System will supply buses for a certain amount of money per child
per day. Councilman Rotundo stated the first proposal was $152,000 and a bus
would have been cheaper then.
Councilman Rotundo stated some of the prices could be cheaper if they use City
employees. Councilman Asting pointed out the City forces are stretched out
now but they could hire temporary help. Mayor Baugh noted that when the grass
stops growing, that will free some people up.
Councilman Rotundo stated it takes about 10 days to pour the sidewalk but the
bridges will take a little longer. Mr. Copeland noted that getting the road
prepared will take time and will take many loads of dirt to stabilize the bank.
Councilman Rotundo pointed out that wasn't included in the price. Councilman
Prater asked about reinforcing mesh and Councilman Rotundo said it would be
just in the driveways. Councilman Prater said they need a base for that and
Councilman Rotundo said they'll use shell. Mr. Copeland stated it has to
be sloped off and will need a lot of fill. Councilman Inman asked if it would
help to put in a footer and Mr. Copeland replied that would take a lot of
money. Mr. Copeland added that they have 15 feet on each side of the roadway
that the City has and they have to stabilize it. Mayor Baugh asked where
they'll get the fill and Mr. Copeland replied they'll have to buy it and shell
is cheaper than dirt sometimes. Councilman Asting said shell is a better bed
than dirt. Councilman Rotundo noted the City Engineer suggested the Public
Works personnel prepare the beds before any construction can be started.
Councilman Asting asked how long the bike path will be and Councilman Rotundo
replied it's two-thirds of a mile. He reviewed the statistics of how much
will be covered by a yard of concrete. City Clerk Martinez noted it's 3,260
feet. Councilman Rotundo said 230 yards of cement will be" needed. Mr.
Copeland said it should be about $40 a yard for that quantity of concrete.
City Clerk Martinez asked if $10,000. is a close figure for bridges and Mr.
Garrett said he didn't figure it but it would depend on how much fill they
do. He added that he felt it was overestimated. Councilman Rotundo pointed
out they can't disturb the water or they'll get in trouble. City Clerk
Martinez said they'll have to go to DER.
-2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
October 23, 1985
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Councilman Asting asked if these can be paid for from the recreational fund
since it would be a recreational project to be used by children and could be
used by adults who ride their bicycles for exercise and recreation. City
Clerk Martinez stated that the City Attorney reviewed this previously and
it's not a school path but could be used for anyone at any time of the day.
Councilman Rotundo suggested they find out the legality of the bike path before
they decide on it. City Clerk Martinez asked if they want a written opinion
and Mayor Baugh replied yes, and then Council could authorize them to go
ahead and get written documents and the survey.
Councilman Rotundo said if they have 4 City employees with the form~ and
grade it, then they can get someone to pour the cement. He added that he
felt it would be a better job if the City sets the forms and straighter lines.
Councilman Prater asked if they can rent metal sidewalk forms and Mr. Copeland
replied he didn't know. Councilman Asting said the wooden forms could be
expensive. Councilman Rotundo explained they'd keep using them over and over
and pulling them ahead, and they'd use 2 by 4's.
Councilman Rotundo pointed out the concrete would be 20~ a square foot poured
and they'd save 40~ a square foot by using City crews.
Mayor Baugh requested a motion to authorize him to go ahead and proceed with
it and find out whose property is where, and if it's feasible and they want
to do it, they have to find out legality, the rights of way, the fill dirt,
and then go forward with these things. City Clerk Martinez asked if authori-
zation to advertise for bids is included if the information is okay. Mayor
Baugh suggested that or they can come back with another meeting to be brought
up to date before they proceed with it. Councilman Asting asked who would
ramrod the project and Councilman Rotundo suggested the Council designate Earl
Copeland or David Garrett. Mayor Baugh suggested that Earl Copeland be the
overseer with Councilman Rotundo to look at it.
Councilman Asting moved to authorize the project to go ahead with Earl Copeland
and David Garrett working closely together in determining the legality, the
crossing of rights of way, the property lines where they want it, the use of
City forces for the installation of the forms for pouring of concrete, etc.,
provided all other areas have no drawbacks or other unexpected expenditures.
Councilman Inman seconded the motion. Councilman Inman stated he's glad to see
the progress made since Councilman Rotundo's been in charge as it's been over
a year and a half they've been working on it and he'd like to see it accelerated
to get it in as soon as possible. He added that he worries daily about a child
being hurt on Park Avenue. Councilman Asting said he hopes they have Police on
Park Avenue, and suggested they have a cruiser in the area when they're going
to and coming from school. Mayor Baugh said he's seen radar on D.s.HI and it
could be on Park Avenue, and he suggested the Lieutenant could go out there in
the morning if he had to. Mayor Baugh asked what time frame they're planning
and Councilman Rotundo said the concrete work should be done in 3 weeks, but
they have to do the survey work. Councilman Asting suggested they have someone
other than Dan Cory do the survey since he's so busy. There was a discussion
about other surveyors in the area who might give quicker replies. Mr. Copeland
said he can't drop everything and work on this but it should be done by Christmas.
Mr. Tom Sheridan asked to speak and Council members agreed. Mr. Sheridan said
in July the Parks and Recreation Board asked why they weren't notified that
a bike path committee had been formed. He added that two members of the
committee were at that meeting and they said they were told it wasn't involving
them because it was not for recreation, it was safety. Mayor Baugh explained
they discussed this at a Council meeting and appointed Councilman Rotundo to
the committee Councilman Inman asked if it was brought up at a department
head meeting and City Clerk Martinez replied yes. Mayor Baugh asked David
Garrett if he was advised and Mr. Garrett replied that he was on the committee.
Mr. Sheridan said the Board was concerned whether or not this was a valid
charge with the impact fees. Mayor Baugh replied they're going to check it
legally.
-3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
October 23, 1985
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Mr. Harry Ryan said this was approved l~ years ago and they didn't do
anything. Councilman Rotundo pointed out the bids came in at $152,000 and
they couldn't do it. Mayor Baugh said they put it off because of the money.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh asked for a motion to adjourn. Councilman Asting made that motion.
Councilman Inman seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 3:44 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
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CITY CLERK
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Approved this~day of
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-4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
October 23, 1985