07-29-1985 & 07-30-1985 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP
JULY 29, 1985
MINUTES
Mayor Baugh called the Special Meeting to order at 1:00 PM in the
Community Center. He stated the reason for the meeting was to inter-
view the Police Chief candidates.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Earl Baugh
Councilman Louis Rotundo
Councilman Russell Prater
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman James Inman
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Martinez
Lieutenant William Britain
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Mayor Baugh asked for a motion to adjourn the Special Meeting and go into the
Workshop. Councilman Inman so moved. Councilman Asting seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Vincent Pishnery was introduced to Council members by City Clerk Martinez.
Councilman Prater asked him his primary reason to seek this position and Mr.
Pishnery replied that he's a resident of Edgewater and owns property here but
his business is in Boca Raton where he's a polygraph operator. He said he's
retired as a Police Chief in Ohio with 28 years of experience and he likes
Edgewater. He stated that he feels he could do a good job for the City with
his past experience and education. He advised Council that he brought his
credentials and other documents with him if they'd like to review them. He
said he was very embarrassed about the score he got but was very sleepy at
the interview because he'd been up for 40 hours with the Broward Crime
Commission with other job duties.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he's familiar with this area and Mr. Pishnery
replied yes, to a point. Councilman Rotundo asked what he'd do first to
organize the Police Department. Mr. Pishnery replied that he'd interview the
Police officers they have and survey what they have and then give the Mayor
and Council his decision of what they have to work with and any improvements
he feels they need to work with.
Councilman Inman asked when he came to this area and Mr. Pishnery replied it
was 11 years ago. Councilman Inman asked about the platoon system and Mr.
Pishnery said it's a very good system with different zones. Councilman
Inman explained the platoon system here is 8 hours with three shifts or
12 hour shifts with two days on and two days off. Mr. Pishnery said he
tried that in his small Police Department but it seems that after 8 hours
a man has done his duty and they don't get the proper rest and doesn't make for
good Police offihers.
Councilman Asting asked about budget expenditures and if there were money left
over at the end of the fiscal year and his department would like to buy some-
thing, what would he do about it. Mr. Pishnery said the purchase would be with
the approval of the person in charge of the budget and he uses his budget like
a Bible.
Mayor Baugh asked his definition of vicarious liability and how it works within
the Police Department. Mr. Pishnery asked the policy here now and Mayor Baugh
said he just wants his interpretation as there are certain things the officers
can or can't do. Mr. Pishnery said he teaches a lot of this at the college
and according to what they were taught and the laws is what they go by.
Councilman Prater asked his date of birth and noted it wasn't on his resume.
Mr. Pishnery replied it's May 4, 1923. Councilman Prater asked if he has
any health problems, physical or mental, and Mr. Pishnery replied no, and
he works out mornings and takes a lot of vitamins and is in excellent health
and could get a statement from his doctor.
Councilman Rotundo asked the size of the city in Woodmere, Ohio, and Mr.
Pishnery said it was 30,000 to 35,000 and is located in Northeast Ohio.
Councilman Rotundo asked how many men he had and Mr. Pishnery replied 28.
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Mr. Pishnery (Continued) -
Councilman Inman asked about in house training for the officers and Mr.
Pishnery said there are a lot of classes through the Police Chiefs' organi-
zation and some community colleges offer the classes but he doesn't know
what's available in this area. Councilman Inman asked about in house classes
without utilizing community colleges and Mr. Pishnery said he would put on
classes himself which he's qualified to do. Councilman Inman asked about the
training and going to the firing range for proficiency with firearms and
Mr. Pishnery said it would be once a month. Councilman Inman asked what
type of: course he would have and Mr. Pishnery said a combat course is what
they should be going to. Councilman Inman asked if that includes shotguns
and Mr. Pishnery replied yes. Mr. Pishnery noted that in Ohio it's mandatory
that they go to the range once a month.
Councilman Asting explained that the City is organized in different departments
and asked if he felt the Police Department should be separate from adminis-
tration since the work is somewhat different. Mr. Pishnery said each depart-
ment has its own work to do. Councilman Asting explained the organizational
structure of the City with the City Clerk/Administrator passing decisions
and information from Council to the department heads and asked if the Police
Department should be there. Mr. Pishnery said they should be right under there.
Mayor Baugh asked if he's a certified officer in the State of Florida and Mr.
Pishnery replied no but it would take him 48 hours to get it and he has applied
for it. Mayor Baugh asked if the officers should be trained on their own time
or on City time for Police Standards and Training courses. Mr. Pishnery said
the City should pay for it as it motivates them a lot more. Mayor Baugh pointed
out they get paid by the State for going to the courses and Mr. Pishnery agreed
that then the City shouldn't pick up the tab for it.
Councilman Prater asked if he can take orders as well as give them and Mr.
Pishnery replied yes. Councilman Prater asked if he would be willing to go on
a six month probationary period if chosen for the position and Mr. Pishnery
replied yes, and he feels he should work the probation to prove himself.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he's familiar with the purchasing policy they have
to abide by and Mr. Pishnery replied yes.
Councilman Asting asked how many hours the Chief should put in each week and
Mr. Pishnery said he never saw just 40 hours and the hours are many because
they have problems they have to get out and he wants to be on top of things.
He added that he's very stringent in that area and will put in the hours.
Councilman Inman asked about using charts in the department such as pins on
a map to show accident areas. Mr. Pishnery said it's very good and he'd know
to use priorities in that area and is a good guideline to validate an increase
in patrol or whatever is needed. Mr. Pishnery added that he went to a school
on traffic control. Councilman Inman noted that the City is getting weapons
and leather per an agreement with the Association and asked his preference of
the type that should be carried. Mr. Pishnery replied there's a standard
weapon and leather and some departments get the fast draw holster but he
doesn't approve of that. He said he wouldn't go higher than 357 and the 38
is normal but the standard leather is what they need and he opposes the fast
draw holster. Councilman Inman asked about the holster that locks the weapon
in and Mr. Pishnerysaid he isn't referring to that with fast draw.
Councilman Asting asked what he'd consider for a starting salary during pro-
bation and Mr. Pishnery replied it would be whatever the City decides as
finances aren't a problem with him as he draws pension from the State of Ohio.
Councilman Asting asked if he'd have problems with taking orders or instructions
from the City Clerk/Administrator who is a lady and Mr. Pishnery replied no, if
it's a valid order and he's never had problems before, but he doesn't always
agree to everything.
Mayor Baugh asked what he'd do if he'd made a decision and 4 or 5 officers
told him they didn't agree with it. Mr. Pishnery said if he made a decision
or put out an order, they'll work it his way and if it's wrong, he'll answer
for it. He added that if it's job procedure, that would be different and he'd
have to qualify what it would be.
-2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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Mr. Pishnery (Continued) -
Councilman Prater asked how he'd
check it out. Mr. Pishnery said
check it out. Mayor Baugh asked
and Mr. Pishnery replied yes.
Councilman Prater asked when he'd consider high speed pursuit warranted and
Mr. Pishnery said when a felon is involved, such as armed robbery.
handle citizens' complaints and if
he'd want every complaint answered
if he'd request a signed citizen!~
he'd
and will
complaint
Councilman Asting pointed out that there's a speeding problem in parts of
Edgewater especially in the morning hours and asked how he'd handle it.
Mr. Pishnery asked if they have radar and Councilman Asting replied yes.
Mr. Pishnery said he'd use it and the word will get around and they can
have a car posted. Councilman Asting asked if he believes in setting up speed
traps and Mr. Pishnery said he doesn't like them but if it warrants it, yes.
Councilman Asting asked if he'd conceal them and Mr. Pishnery replied no.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he'd had a chance to look at the Police Depart-
ment building and facilities, and Mr. Pishnery replied no.
Mayor Baugh asked if he'd have trouble disciplining an officer about a citizen's
complaint and Mr. Pishnery replied no and he's done it many times.
Councilman Inman asked his reaction if a patrol officer, especially on late
hours, is caught sleeping in his patrol car. Mr. Pishnery said he'd find
out what the problem is and if it's a first offense he'd want to go into it
but if it's a second offense and no illness or problem he'd follow the City's
rules regarding this. He added that at 4 or 5AM it's hard to stay awake and
he's told his patrolmen not to sit out behind buildings to sleep but to come
into the department and get relief. Councilman Inman asked about officers
drinking coffee in a patrol car and Mr. Pishnery said he's opposed to it
because he's opened cars so often that had several cups on the floor. Council-
man Inman asked about officers coming into the station for coffee and Mr.
Pishnery said it's according to how long he's been on patrol and if it's close
to lunch time.
Councilman Rotundo asked how he'd handle abuse of sick time and Mr. Pishnery
said if they're habitual offenders of sick leave they had to get a full
report from the doctor as to why the illness came up so often. He added
that he believes in running a stringent organization.
Mayor Baugh thanked Mr. Pishnery for coming for the interview. Mr. Pishnery
stated that he's a polygraph operator and licensed in the State of Florida
and would like to develop a good, solid department.
Mayor Baugh recessed the Workshop at 1:32PM to await the next candidate's
arrival.
City Clerk Martinez introduced Edward Overman to Council members. Mayor Baugh
called the recessed workshop back to order at 1:53PM. Mayor Baugh explained
the interview process to Mr. Overman.
Councilman Prater asked his primary reason to seek the position. Mr. Overman
replied that while with the City in the past he developed a relationship with
the City and enjoyed the City and he's ready to become a Chief and would like
to be Chief here and be a part of the process of what is to be done in the City.
Councilman Rotundo asked what changes he'd make if he became Chief and Mr.
Overman said he set up some rules and regulations and started an internal
communications process and would like more community involvement which he
started. He added that he'd like to continue what he did before and he thinks
morale of the department was coming up at the time.
Councilman Inman asked about the platoon system versus the 8 hours and Mr.
Overman said he's in favor of 8-hour shifts.
-3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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Edward Overman (Continued) -
Councilman Asting asked if he'd go ahead and purchase something he'd like to
have for his department if he found he had surplus funds at the end of the
fiscal year. Mr. Overman said he wouldn't take the end of the year money and
spend it just for the sake of spending it but would ask for it if he felt it
was something important.
Mayor Baugh asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Overman replied
it's liability concerned with a supervisor regarding control of an individual
and any incidents he should know about which he's responsible for.
Councilman Prater asked if he'd work a six-months probation if selected and
Mr. Overman replied yes. Councilman Prater asked if he can take orders as
well as administer them and Mr. Overman replied yes. Councilman Prater asked
about abuse of sick leave and Mr. Overman said when he first came to our City
there was over 300 hours of sick time and he decreased it to about 178 hours,
and sick time is sometimes a way for a man to say something and it must be
controlled by management and shouldn't be abused.
Councilman Inman asked about in-house training and Mr. Overman said they'd have
to get the firearms training more than in the past and they should have some
formal training to protect against vicarious liability. Councilman Inman
asked how often they should go on the firearms range and Mr. Overman replied
about twice a year. Mr. Overman said he liked the short course from DBCC.
Councilman Inman asked if it would include shotgun training and Mr. Overman
replied yes.
Councilman Asting asked how many hours the Chief should work and Mr. Overman
replied a minimum of 40 hours but a time can't be put on it, just whatever
hours are necessary to perform the function.
Mayor Baugh asked about off-duty activities of Police employees such as
drinking and driving while drinking. Mr. Overman said an employee shouldn't
do anything that would embarrass or bring discredit to the department.
Councilman Prater asked how he'd handle citizens' complaints and Mr. Overman
replied that every citizen deserves an answer but sometimes a citizen doesn't
like the answer. He said they serve the citizens and all problems should be
addressed. Mayor Baugh asked if they'd have to sign a citizen's complaint form
and Mr. Overman said he'd require it if the complaint is against a Police officer
but if it's civil or not criminal, he'd react to it.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he felt the Police Department needs to be enlarged,
both in building and personnel. Mr. Overman replied that the building was
inadequate unless they've made additions and he'd have to look at personnel
but he'd like 8-hour shifts which might require additional personnel. Mayor
Buagh asked if they were on 8-hours when he was here and Mr. Overman replied yes.
Mayor Baugh noted that they've gone back to 12 hours now. Mayor Baugh asked if
he'd go against them if the employees wanted 12 hours and Mr. Overman said yes.
Councilman Inman asked about a patrolman caught sleeping on duty in the early
mornings and Mr. Overman said he'd send him home and would have a talk with
him to find out why he did it and then would write it up. Councilman Inman
asked about coffee breaks and drinking coffee in patrol cars. Mr. Overman
said not in the cars, but he'd give them coffee breaks. Councilman Inman asked
if he'd let them come into the station for breaks and Mr. Overman said yes, but
they'd have to call it in and not abuse it and they could be doing office work then.
Councilman Asting asked if the Police Department should be a separate entity
from administration and Mr. Overman replied no, he doesn't see the need for it.
Councilman Asting asked if the Police Chief should be on the same level as
other department heads and Mr. Overman replied yes.
Councilman Prater asked about traffic law enforcement and Mr. Overman said
all laws should be enforced but some may be second to others and priorities must be
determined.
Councilman Asting asked how he'd control speeding in the City and Mr. Overman
replied with radar units, clocking in the area, through citizen complaints and
known speedways. Mayor Baugh pointed out that some roads are being paved in
Florida Shores and asked if an officer should be kept in the Shores area.
Mr. Overman said he broke the City in two zones and one is mostly the Shores.
Councilman Asting asked if he should be cruising or parked to observe the
traffic and Mr. Overman said cruising is a good method but some trouble spots
may have to be watched.
-4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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Edward Overman (Continued) -
Councilman Rotundo asked what fair salary he'd expect and Mr. Overman replied
that he felt that's premature and he'd made proposals, but it would be his
sole source of income. Councilman Rotundo noted that his present job is at
$30,000. and Mr. Overman agreed.
Councilman Asting asked if he ha~ problems with administrative procedures or
purchasing policies of the City and Mr. Overman replied no, and they live
within the system they're in. Councilman Asting reviewed the liaison duties
between the City Clerk/Administrator and department heads and asked Mr. Overman
if he had any problems with that. Mr. Overman replied that he didn't have any
problems in the past and wouldn't have any problems now. Councilman Rotundo
asked if he felt the purchase orders are a good idea and Mr. Overman said he
had no problems.
Councilman Inman asked about using charts pinpointing accidents on a map of
the City. Mr. Overman said he believes in statistics. Councilman Inman asked
about the type of weapons and leather the officers should have. Mr. Overman
replied he likes uniformity and they should all be the same. Councilman Inman
noted that the Association contract requires this and asked the type of leather
he'd choose. Mr. Overman said he'd remain with the leather and likes a 357,
4" and it would be uniform if the City is furnishing them. Councilman Inman
asked if he prefers a revolver or automatic and Mr. Overman said he prefers
a revolver. Councilman Prater asked if he'd prefer blue steel or nickel
plate and Mr. Overman said he'd take cost into consideration.
Councilman Prater asked when high speed pursuit would be warranted and Mr.
Overman replied when they can't apprehend the person later and if it's a danger
to the community. He added that the degree of crime is the key and the amount
of danger in the pursuit.
Councilman Asting asked if inspections of personnel are necessary and Mr.
Overman replied yes, and he'd show up on lineups unannounced and look at the
gear and vehicles. Councilman Asting asked if he'd inspect on patrol and Mr.
Overman replied yes, but he wouldn't refer to it as an inspection. He added
that he's done it in the past.
Mayor Baugh asked if he made a decision and then 4 or 5 officers say they
don't agree with it, how would he handle it. Mr. Overman said he felt he
would have got their input before but if the complaints were legitimate and
it didn't affect the functions of the department, he'd give in to them.
Mayor Baugh thanked Mr. Overman for his time and he was excused from the meeting.
Mayor Baugh recessed the meeting at 2:15PM awaiting the arrival of the next
candidate.
City Clerk Martinez introduced Lawrence Schumaker to Council members. Mayor
Baugh called the recessed workshop back to order at 2:21PM, and reviewed the
interview process with Mr. Schumaker.
Councilman Prater asked why he's seeking this position and Mr. Schumaker said
he spent 25 years in law enforcement in Massachusetts and moved to Florida a
few years ago and after about a year of retirement he joined the State Corrections.
He added that he likes Police work and would like to continue his career.
Councilman Rotundo asked what improvements he'd make in the Police Department
and Mr. Schumaker said change is frightening to everybody and he doesn't know
what changes he'd make at this time but the primary function of the Chief is to
organize the Police Department to meet the objectives of the Department.
Councilman Inman asked what in-house training he'd have for training the officers.
Mr. Schumaker said he retired as Major and went to various seminars throughout
the country and developed a well-rounded knowledge of what Police work entails
and the Chief will have to get involved in day to day operations but he would
prefer the subordinates do it. He added that he'd talk to each officer and
see what weaknesses he had and see what's needed. He noted that he'd have
classes in the evenings to get the department the way it should be running.
He said he feels comfortable in his ability to communicate and address
problems as they come up.
-5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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Lawrence Schumaker (Continued) -
Councilman Asting asked if money was left in the Police Department budget at
the end of the fiscal year, would he use it for something the department needs.
Mr. Schumaker replied he wouldn't do it without discussing it with the City
Clerk or head administrator in charge of the budget. He added that he wouldn't
indiscriminately purchase items.
Mayor Baugh asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Schumaker
replied it's the type of liability where they're held accountable for the
actions of their officers.
Councilman Prater asked how he'd handle citizens' complaints. Mr. Schumaker
said it would be a straightforward, open door policy and if a citizen is paying
taxes in the community they should have the opportunity to file a complaint.
He added that he'd listen to them and get details. Councilman Prater asked if
he'd require a signed complaint and Mr. Schumaker replied that he would if it's
a complaint against an officer. He added that it would be investigated with
the facts in the document and it allows the officer to defend his case.
Councilman Rotundo asked about abuse of sick leave and Mr. Schumaker agreed
that happens and he'd review the situation for a pattern and then talk to the
officers and then take other actions if the problem isn't solved. He noted
that abuse usually occurs in departments where morale is low.
Councilman Inman asked if he understands the platoon system and Mr. Schumaker
replied yes. Councilman Inman asked if he prefers 8 hours or the platoon
system for the men and Mr. Schumaker said he doesn't know the problems here.
Councilman Inman reviewed the 8-hour and l2-hour shifts. Mr. Schumaker noted
that with the 12 hours they tend to burn out the last couple of hours and it
would depend on what the officers want and efficiency of the department and
amount of coverage. He added that it would also depend on what the people
want and what they expect.
Councilman Asting asked if the Police Department should be a separate entity
from other departments and through the administrative chain. Mr. Schumaker
said it should be in a particular chain in the municipality but everyday
operations should be the responsibility of the Chief, who would be responsible
to Councilor the Mayor or the City Clerk. Councilman Asting asked if he'd
have problems taking instructions from the City Clerk/Administrator who is
an executive to the Council. Mr. Schumaker said he'd welcome it and would
like to discuss operations of the department, perhaps on a weekly basis, and
he feels dialogue is good.
Mayor Baugh asked if he made a departmental decision and other employees
didn't agree with the decision and gave him a reason why, would he listen
to them. Mr. Schumaker said he'd listen to them and review his decision but
if he decides that it's right, he'd stand by it, or would change it if he
thinks it's wrong.
Councilman Prater asked if he'd agree to six months probation if selected
and Mr. Schumaker said yes. Mr. Schumaker said he talked with his superiars
and they told him he could come back to them but he feels he can do any
job he's given.
Councilman Rotundo noted that they advertised for $22,500. and asked if this
would be satisfactory. Mr. Schumaker said yes and he'd applied with the
knowledge of that salary and it's above average for this size department.
He added that he has a pension from Massachusetts and he feels he'll make a
qualified man for $22,500. and will do a good job.
Councilman Inman asked how often he'd require the officers to go on the firing
range and Mr. Schumaker replied a minimum of every year because of the
liability, and he'd recommend every six months if possible if there are funds
for the ammunition. Councilman Inman asked the type of course he'd prefer and
Mr. Schumaker replied PTC. Councilman Inman asked if it would include shotgun
training and Mr. Schumaker said shotguns are overrated in Police work but if
the town carries shotguns in the cars, it's absolutely necessary, and if not,
he'd question the validity.
-6- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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Lawrence Schumaker (Continued) -
Councilman Asting noted that there's a speeding problem in certain areas
and asked how he'd bring it under control. Mr. Schumaker replied with
visibility of Police officers. Councilman Asting asked if he'd have a
plan and Mr. Schumaker said he'd have to look at the entire situation and
get the community involved for traffic safety. He said he'd check to see if
outside residents are causing most of the problems and would increase patrols
in areas during the hours needed and radar or engineering might be a solution.
Mayor Baugh asked about off-duty activities of officers and drinking and
driving. Mr. Schumaker said there's very little control over it once they
leave the command, but an officer has to have a degree of stability
in his private life as well as professional life. He added that he'd talk to
the officer and tell him it will not be tolerated and if there's a union,
he'll talk with them. He noted that a department is built by the officers in
it and they shouldn't drink in this town but elsewhere if they want a cocktail.
He added that if he can't explain it to the officers or they don't listen,
he'd get rid of them.
Councilman Prater asked if he has any health problems and Mr. Schumaker
replied no.
Councilman Asting asked how many hours the Chief would have to work and
Mr. Schumaker replied probably about 50 as a minimum. Councilman Asting
asked if he'd expect pay for that and Mr. Schumaker replied no. Councilman
Asting asked if he'd commute from Deland and Mr. Schumaker said it's only
34 miles from his home and he'd like to commute durip-g the probation period
and until the Betts situation is resolved as he wouldn't want to buy a home
here and then find out he's not Chief. He added that if the effectiveness of
the department isn't as it should be, then he'd change and move, but he feels
he can do the job from where he lives, and the drive back and forth gives him
thinking time.
Councilman Asting asked the area in Massachusetts he comes from and Mr.
Schumaker said it's the Melrose and Chelsea area.
Councilman Inman asked how he'd handle a patrol officer caught sleeping in
the early morning hours and Mr. Schumaker said he doesn't know of any officer
not falling asleep at some time but he'd review his files on the officer and
check how many hours he'd been on duty before that but would let the officer
knowit can't be tolerated. Councilman Inman asked about drinking coffee in
the cars and Mr. Schumaker said he'd prefer they go on signals to go out of
service because of trash and cups in the cars and spills during chase.
Councilman Inman asked if they could come in if a place isn't open and Mr.
Schumaker said no, he'd rather know where they are. Mr. Schumaker added that
drinking coffee presents a poor image and misconception of what's in the cup.
He noted that he also doesn't like smoking on duty.
Mayor Baugh asked if he'd wear a uniform and Mr. Schumaker said yes if the
City provides one because he's worn one all his life and is proud of it.
Mayor Baugh asked if he'd expect the City to provide a car back and forth
to Deland and Mr. Schumaker said no. Mayor Baugh asked if he'd come in the
middle of the night and Mr. Schumaker said he'd be here. Mayor Baugh thanked
him for coming for the interview.
Mayor Baugh recessed the workshop at 2:57PM awaiting the next candidates arrival.
James Bivens was then introduced to Council members. Mayor Baugh called the
recessed meeting back to order at 3:03PM. Mayor Baugh reviewed the interview
procedure with Mr. Bivens.
Councilman Prater asked his reason to seek the position. Mr. Bivens said he
moved to Edgewater to retire and liked the area and when he found out the
position was vacant he felt his qualifications, background, and interest in
the quality of government in the City he lives in would make him a good candidate.
-7- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
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James Bivens (Continued) -
Councilman Rotundo asked what improvements he'd make in the department and
Mr. Bivens said he'd have to know the situation and problems and then study
and make a determination for a course of action.
Councilman Inman asked which work shift he'd prefer, 8 or 12 hours. Mr.
Bivens replied that it would depend on the situation in the community, such
as work load demand, morale of the people, etc. Councilman Inman asked for
clarification of morale, whether it was morale of the employees or the
citizens and Mr. Bivens replied it's both.
Councilman Asting asked if he'd buy something the department needs if he
had surplus funds in his budget at the end of the fiscal year and Mr. Bivens
replied that it would depend on the system in the City and if it was his money
in the budget then it would depend on the policy and procedure of the City
government. Councilman Asting asked about leaving it unexpended and Mr.
Bivens said he wouldn't spend it on something unnecessary but if it was
needed then he would. Councilman Asting asked how long he's been in Edgewater
and Mr. Bivens replied since January, but he'd visited the area before.
Mayor Baugh asked his definition of vicarious liability and Mr. Bivens said
it's the liability of the City for the actions of any person of the City,
particularly the Police Department as it's the most likely place to be sued.
He added that he went to the Chiefs' seminars regarding this and is familiar
with situations that could be a problem.
Councilman Prater asked about handling citizens' complaints and Mr. Bivens
said each citizen's complaint should be investigated.
Councilman Rotundo asked the size of Bluefield and Mr. Bivens replied about
16,000 and they had 28 sworn officers and several civilians.
Councilman Inman asked about in-house training for officers and Mr. Bivens
said there'd be inservice training at roll call and as much outside training
as is avilable but he's not familiar with what's in the area. He added that
training is one of the most critical areas and is applicable to vicarious
liability. Councilman Inman asked how often they should go to the firing
range and Mr. Bivens replied a minimum of twice a year. Councilman Inman
asked the course and Mr. Bivens said the Close Combat course that incorporates
the types of situations they get into, night fire, firing under stress, etc.
Councilman Inman asked if he would include shotgun training and Mr. Bivens
replied yes.
Councilman Asting reviewed the organizational structure of the City and
asked Mr. Bivens if he felt the Police Department should be a separate
entity and report to Council. Mr. Bivens replied that it's a part of the
City government and should be a part of the entity. Councilman Asting asked
if he had any problems with taking instructions from the City Clerk/Adminis-
trator and Mr. Bivens replied no.
Mayor Baugh asked about off duty activities, such as drinking, etc. Mr.
Bivens said the Police officer has the right to a private life but has an
obligation to conduct his life in an exemplary manner, but it there was
conduct unbecoming to an officer he'd review it. Mayor Baugh asked if an
officer can take a drink in this town and Mr. Bivens said he didn't see a
problem, and in D.C. they couldn't take a drink in their own precinct.
Mayor Baugh asked if he made a decision and some of the employees felt the
decision wasn't right, would he listen to them or stay with his decision.
Mr. Bivens said he believes in participatory management and would have dis-
cussed it prior to the decision and wouldn't have made it if it caused strain
or discomfort without getting their approval and support of it.
Councilman Prater asked if he'd work six months probation if selected and
Mr. Bivens replied yes.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he'd agree to the $22,500. salary and Mr. Bivens
said yes, no problem.
-8- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
.
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James Bivens (Continued) -
Councilman Inman asked about using charts to pinpoint accidents on a map,
and breakins, etc. Mr. Bivens said it's an excellent tool and he imple-
mented it in Bluefield for crime analysis. Councilman Inman asked what type
of leather and weapons he'd prefer for the officers as the Association
contract requires these be furnished. Mr. Bivens said he'd want it to be
uniform and well maintained but doesn't like cross draw holsters and the
standard police service 38 is usually satisfactory. Councilman Inman asked
if he'd prefer a revolver over an automatic and Mr. Bivens replied yes, in
most circumstances.
Councilman Asting asked what inspections he'd conduct and Mr. Bivens said
a roll call inspection daily, and weapons. Mayor Baugh asked if he'd conduct
the inspection, or if the Sergeant would. Mr. Bivens said whoever is there
and it could be very informal. Councilman Asting asked if he'd check the
patrols and Mr. Bivens replied yes, that's part of the inspection function
and as Chief he can't work 9 to 5 five days a week and do the job right and
he'd put out more than they're used to. Councilman Asting asked what he
would consider the normal work day and Mr. Bivens said he'd be available
during the work day and during regular work hours and at odd hours otherwise.
Councilman Asting asked if he'd expect to be paid after 40 hours and Mr.
Bivens replied no.
Councilman Prater asked if he has any health problems and Mr. Bivens said no.
Councilman Rotundo asked if he's familiar with purchase orders and Mr. Bivens
said yes and the system is similar to the one in Bluefield.
Mayor Baugh asked if he's certified in Florida and Mr. Bivens replied he is
not but he's certain he wouldn't have any difficulty. Mayor Baugh asked
what he'd do if he had to go 360 hours and Mr. Bivens said he'd do it and
it wouldn't bother him a bit.
Councilman Inman asked how he'd handle an officer asleep in a car in the
early morning hours. Mr. Bivens said it would depend on the type of officer
he is and he'd take some type of disciplinary action. Councilman Inman asked
if he'd allow officers to drink coffee in the cars and Mr. Bivens said yes.
Councilman Inman asked if the men could come into the station for a coffee
break and Mr. Bivens said he didn't mind if it's not interfering with getting
their work done.
Councilman Asting asked how he'd put a stop to the speeding in Florida Shores
in the morning and evenings. Mr. Bivens said he believes in selective
enforcement based on needs, either by statistics or complaints. Councilman
Asting noted that they tried checking it in the past but it only lasted
for a short time. Mr. Bivens said it's lack of supervision and they have to
follow the traffic enforcement.
Mayor Baugh called a short recess at 3:23PM. He called the meeting back in
session at 3:29PM.
Councilman Asting suggested they consider all the applicants overnight and
meet the next day to make a recommendation. Mayor Baugh agreed they could
recess until the next day. There was a discussion of the time for the meeting
the next day and it was agreed to meet at 3PM.
Mayor Baugh suggested a motion to adjourn the Workshop and go into the Special
Meeting. Councilman Prater so moved. Councilman Asting seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh asked for a motion to recess the Special Meeting until the next
day at 3PM. Councilman Asting so moved. Councilman Prater seconded the
motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Meeting was recessed at 3:34PM.
-9- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
July 29, 1985
o
Q
JULY 30, 1985 MINUTES
Mayor Baugh called the recessed meeting to order at 3:00PM in the Community
Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Earl Baugh
Councilman Louis Rotundo
Councilman Russell Prater
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman James Inman
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Martinez
Lieutenant William Britain
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Mayor Baugh stated the purpose of this meeting is to consider the people who
were interviewed the day before for Police Chief.
Councilman Rotundo stated that he was impressed with the interviews of all
the candidates and felt they all expressed themselves well and he thought
the money spent to have them evaluated was worth it.
Councilman Asting stated that anyone of them could fulfill the position but
his choice is Mr. Schumaker for Chief.
Councilman Inman said he graded the candidates by their answers and reactions and
the highest score was for Mr. Schumaker and he seemed very knowledgeable about
what has to be done and didn't quibble about the salary offered. He added that
he felt they'd have a trouble area with one of the candidates regarding salary
but he's a good man. He said he didn't feel the City can afford him. Councilman
Asting agreed with Councilman Inman.
Councilman Prater pointed out that the salary for the man was spelled out in the
fourth paragraph of his letter and he stated that Mr. Schumaker was his #1 choice.
Councilman Rotundo stated that Mr. Schumaker was his choice also.
Mayor Baugh said he was impressed with all of them but Mr. Schumaker with his
experience and knowledge who has been to departments allover the U.S. for training
is who he feels would be the best person for Chief.
Councilman Asting suggested they name Mr. Bivens as alternate in case Mr. Schumaker
was unable to take the job. Mayor Baugh said he didn't think they need an alternate.
Councilman Asting moved that Mr. Schumaker be offered the position of Chief of
Police of Edgewater with a six month probationary period, subject to a background
review, and offering a starting salary of $21,000. during the probationary period.
Councilman Prater seconded the motion. Mayor Baugh asked if he'd be increased after
probation and Councilman Asting agreed if he successfully completes probation he'd
be raised to $22,500. Councilman Inman asked what the advertisement stated and
City Clerk Martinez said it was a salary range of $20,000. to $22,500. Motion
CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh said they need to appoint someone for the background check because
the City shouldn't do it, and it should be an outside agencey. Councilman Asting
suggested the City Clerk/Administrator handle it. City Clerk Martinez said she
knew two firms that were suggested by the City Attorney. Mayor Baugh suggested they
contact FDLE to see who they'd recommend. Councilman Asting suggested it be done
as soon as possible. City Clerk Martinez pointed out that they need to get some
signed releases. Councilman Prater suggested letters be sent to the other can-
didates.
Mayor Baugh suggested a motion to adjourn. Councilman Asting so moved. Councilman
Prater seconded the motion. Meeting was adjourned at 3:09 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
ATTEST:
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CITY CLERK ~
Approved this~day of
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YOR
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COUNCILMAN -~ ONE
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COUNCILMAN - ZONE TWO
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COUNCILMAN C/ZONE THREE
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~UNCILMAN - ZONE FOUR
_lO_Council Special Meeting & Workshop of
July 29, 1985 and July 30, 1985(Recessed)
Minutes
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Lura Sue ~oser
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