01-28-1985 - Special/Workshop
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CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
SPECIAL MEETING AND WORKSHOP
JANUARY 28, 1985
MINUTES
Mayor Baugh called
Community Center.
on, the paving and
the Special Meeting and Workshop to order at 3:00 P.M. in the
He stated the purpose was to discuss, and possibly take action
resurfacing of roads.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Earl Baugh
Councilman Louis Rotundo
Councilman Russell Prater
Councilman Neil Asting
Present
Present
Present
Present
Councilman James Inman
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Kinsey
Police Sergeant W. Lenz
Present
Excused
Present
Excused
Also present were Mr. Earl Copeland, Public Works Superintendent, and Mrs. Karen
Rickelman, Assistant Finance Director.
Mayor Baugh asked for a motion to recess the Special Meeting and go into the
Workshop. Councilman Asting so moved. Councilman Inman seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting asked Mr. Copeland the cost for a running foot for resurfacing.
Mr. Copeland distributed copies of information detailing the total miles for the
streets selected by priority for resurfacing and said he'd contacted some paving
companies and came up with a price of $41,762. per mile for resurfacing a street,
20 foot wide. He noted that it costs $38.49 per ton for asphalt laid in place by
the County and that's a bid price. Councilman Rotundo asked if they purchase by
tonnage and Mr. Copeland pointed out that it's $34.00 just for the asphalt and
with the work included it's only $38.49. Councilman Asting asked Mr. Copeland if
he's recommending the supplier lay the roads and Mr. Copeland replied that they
can't compete with them. Mr. Copeland pointed out that there is a difference in
resurfacing and new construction with new construction at about $20.00 to $21.00 a
lineal foot and it's about $7.50 for resurfacing only. Mrs. Rickelman calculated
it out at $7.90. Councilman Asting explained for the audience that resurfacing
is for present roads that need holes filled and new caps and it's $7.90 per foot
or $41,762.00 for a mile.
An unidentified lady in the audience asked if Fern Palm is included. Mr.
Copeland again reviewed the difference in resurfacing and new construction.
The lady again asked about Fern Palm and said the semi-trucks are using it
and the corner of 19th Street is all dug up. Mr. Copeland said he could put
up any signs if the Police Department instructs him to do so.
Councilman Asting asked the new construction prices and Mr. Copeland said he
doesn't have the bid price. Councilman Inman asked what materials they will
use and Mr. Copeland said it would be soil cement probably as lime rock will
cost more. Mr. Copeland noted that the only problem with the former paving
was the rain when they were working on it, but the cracks are typical of soil
cement as expansion joints. Councilman Asting asked Mr. Copeland's recommend-
ation on new construction and Mr. Copeland replied that it's about $110,000.
per mile and he needed to know how many Council wants to do. Councilman
Asting noted that the list submitted by Mr. Copeland has 30th Street and 22nd
Street from Willow Oak West to Silver Palm as a suggestion for new paving.
Mr. Copeland pointed out that people living in that area would have access
to a paved street. Councilman Asting noted that it's 7/l0ths of a mile,
and there arealot of people in the south and southwest part of Florida Shores
with no access road to paved streets until Willow Oak and this would take care
of a portion of it and he agreed these should be done, subject to costs. Mrs.
Rickelman calculated it to be $77,616. for ~hat length.
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The unidentified lady in the audience asked if they'd also consider that block
of Fern Palm.
Mayor Baugh suggested Council consider for new paving Flagler Avenue north to the
railroad tracks and stated that a man has agreed to provide the equipment
and manpower to pave this if the City will buy the materials. He added the
dust is very bad there. Councilman Asting asked if the cost would be $38. a ton
and Councilman Rotundo replied that it's $34.00 a ton. Councilman Asting asked
if they can figure the tons needed. Councilman Rotundo' pointed out that they
will have to haul the materials and Mayor Baugh said possibly Mr. Towers would
use his trucks for the hauling if the City would buy the fuel. Councilman
Asting agreed with the suggestion. Mr. Copeland stated that he'll measure it
and give Council an idea of how much will be needed, and pointed out they'll
need a minimum of 2" of asphalt due to the trucks using it. There was a dis-
cussion about the equipment to be used and past complaints about this area.
Mayor Baugh stated that he'd meet with Mr. Copeland and Mr. Towers the next
day if Council does not object, and no Council member expressed an objection.
Mrs. Rickelman calculated on the estimated length that it would be about
$6,800. for the materials. Councilman Rotundo suggested it be 24 foot wide,
and he asked how much money they have in the account. Mrs. Rickelman stated
that unaudited as of the end of the fiscal year, with the $38,500. reappropriated
to Parks and Recreation, they have $683,923., and she noted that the audit
isn't in yet and they might have a change with the audit adjustments. Councilman
Rotundo pointed out that they have to consider that they have to amend the
budget for the salary wages, which would come from this balance.
Mr. Copeland stated that they had about $22,100. for resurfacing in the Street
Department budget and Mrs. Rickelman noted that they used some of that for the
corner of Riverside. Mr. Copeland said it was about $24,000. to start with and
he should have about $22,000. left which would do about one-half mile on resur-
facing. Councilman Rotundo stated that they shouldn't go below $500,000.00
in the General Fund so they could spend $183,000. There was a discussion about
the costs considered to this point for the resurfacing and for north Flagler.
Councilman Asting asked about India Palm from 16th to the Boulevard and Kumquat.
Mr. Copeland noted that Juniper is the worst and India Palm isn't so bad.
Councilman Asting stated that Willow Oak is bad. Councilman Rotundo stated
that he drove all the streets on the #1 list and all are in bad shape.
Mayor Baugh asked the cost for three miles and Councilman Inman stated that
it would be $125,286. Mayor Baugh asked Mrs. Rickelman the status of the former
paving assessments and Mrs. Rickelman said there's a balance of $12,000. as of
January 23rd of the $240,000. billed. Mayor Baugh asked the total cost and Mrs.
Rickelman said it was a little over $360,000.
Councilman Asting stated that what they considered comes to $209,182. which
includes the new paving, 30th and 22nd and north Flagler. Councilman Rotundo
suggested they use the $22,000. from the Street budget. Councilman Asting
said they have to do some road patching and Mr. Copeland pointed out that they
have money for patching. Mrs. Rickelman stated that if they use $20,000.,
leaving $2,000. in the account for bug spraying, it would be $189,702.
Councilman Asting asked the balance of surplus funds if they spend the
$189,000. and Mrs. Rickelman replied the unaudited amount would be $494,000.
Councilman Asting suggested they do a road in Florida Shores for about one mile.
Councilman Rotundo said he doesn't want to go under $500,000. unless they see
where they can get it back into the General Fund by the end of the year. City
Clerk Kinsey said it will take 12 months. Councilman Asting said he feels
they can go with another mile and Councilman Rotundo disagreed.
-2- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985
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Councilman Asting asked the length of the streets from 30th to the Boulevard
and Mr. Copeland replied it's about 1.7 miles approximately. Councilman Asting
noted that it will take more than $110,000. for this. Mr. Copeland pointed
out that some of the streets are longer than others.
Councilman Rotundo asked City Clerk Kinsey to read the list of streets on the
first priority and City Clerk Kinsey did so, for the benefit of .the audience.
Mayor Baugh asked if they got any resurfacing through Community Development
Block Grant and City Clerk Kinsey replied that this is the last year. Mr.
Copeland stated that they're still working on Mary, Live Oak between the
old Winn-Dixie and Knapp, plus a bridge on Knapp between Perdita and Palmetto.
City Clerk Kinsey noted that they received the bids on these at the County.
Mayor Baugh suggested they consider the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 program for new construction
as was used before. Councilman Asting said they shouldn't commit too much of
the reserve fund because it's to meet City emergencies. Mayor Baugh asked
the number of miles for the former paving and Mr. Copeland said it was about
5.2 miles. Mayor Baugh pointed out that it only costs the City a little over
$100,000. and the rest comes back. Councilman Asting noted that it would be
about $560. for an 80-foot lot.
Mr. Copeland suggested they consider one street between the Boulevard and 35th
Street because they don't have any paving down there. Mayor Baugh suggested
it be the full length of the Shores from Indian River Boulevard to 35th. Mr.
Copeland noted that would be about 2.3 miles.
Councilman Asting said this program will go on for years but he suggested they
go no further south than 30th at present but go from the Boulevard to 30th,
and he reviewed the streets already paved. Mayor Baugh asked the cost for
new construction from the Boulevard to 30th and Mrs. Rickelman calculated it to
be $178,200. with $59,400. for the City's share. Councilman Asting questioned
the balance if they take that from the $494,000. and Mrs. Rickelman replied that
it will be $316,000. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out that they'd recoup all but
the City's share of that. Councilman Asting suggested they go with that for
this year and leave the balance of $316,000.
Mr. Henry Dardinski, 2704 Sabal Palm, noted that Sabal Palm had a tremendous
amount of building going on and asked that Council consider paving 21st to
30th on Sabal. Councilman Asting stated that it would be the same situation as
Kumquat. Mr. Copeland pointed out that Kumquat is paved for about three
blocks and Sabal is paved for about two. and one half blocks.
Councilman Rotundo suggested they pick a street by population. Mayor Baugh
noted that all the streets are travelled a lot and construction is heavy.
Mr. W. H. Woodard, 1701 Orange Tree, stated that between 12th and Indian
River Boulevard is high transit for Florida Shores traffic moving northward
plus they have a bad problem with dust due to its being used for a thorough-
fare. He asked Council to consider Orange Tree and Needle Palm because of
the high traffic area. He pointed out that oil prices are dropping and
paving will not be cheaper than now and the reserving of money should be
re-analyzed.
Mr. Bill Glaser suggested they put all the streets in a hat.
Councilman Prater noted that since the shopping center was opened the streets
have probably doubled the traffic, especially Needle Palm.
Mr. Bill Glaser, 1703 Needle Palm, said they've been asking for eight years
to have something done with the streets and if they aren't paved they'd
like relief from the traffic. He noted the people on a residential street
have to put up with commercial traffic, and it took Edgewater three years to
do something about the trucks and it only took New Smyrna Beach three weeks.
He suggested they put stop signs on the through streets to slow traffic down.
He added that the City helped to create the problem by violating the Compre-
hensive Plan with units such as Gas Lite Square. He asked for Council consid-
eration so they don't have to live with the dust another 8 to 10 years.
-3- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985
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Mr. Wil Pendleton, 1610 Pine Tree, said about a year ago he asked Council
to put stop signs on Pine Tree at every other intersection and has recorded
several violations since then. He noted that about 30 new homes have gone
up on Pine Tree since it was paved and taxes from those homes will help pay
for other streets. He noted that Edgewater is the fastest growing city in
Volusia County and one thing that will attract people is paved streets. He
suggested Council consider borrowing the money if necessary since they get
the money back within a year. He noted that the objection from the people
who had it paved is the maintenance of it and the cracks are still in the
pavement. Mayor Baugh pointed out that they're getting off the subject of
the agenda. Mr. Pendleton stated that if they aren't going to maintain it,
it will look like Mango Tree. Councilman Asting stated that they are main-
taining it. Mr. Pendleton stated that the streets were supposed to be sealed
and they aren't sealed and until they are, they won't maintain it.
Mrs. Bernice Petty, 2818 Queen Palm, said she understood there were more yes
replies to the poll on paving and Queen Palm is like a race track but
construction is tearing up even the shell roads and digging up sewers is
leaving water sitting there. She said she'd be happy to have a petition
signed for Queen Palm.
Mr. Paul Henry, 1429 Needle Palm, asked if they're paving some streets arbi-
trarily, and if the people are being contacted personally and asked if they
want their street paved. He said paving of streets causes speeding and
the more paving, the more trouble they'll have. He suggested they go door to
door to get answers as to whether they want it paved, and he doesn't think
they should make a decision about paving without approaching the citizens
and finding out what they want. Mayor Baugh noted that they ran the surveys
on the water bills, and they came back about 75% for paving.
Councilman Prater asked Mr. Glaser if 100% of the people on his street had
signed the petition for paving and Mr. Glaser replied that two people were
not contacted at that time.
Councilman Rotundo asked the amount of taxes from the County for real estate
taxes and Mrs. Rickelman replied that they budgeted $633,620. for ad valorem
taxes, and she pointed out that it's the major revenue but they also have
State Revenue Sharing and others.
Councilman Asting suggested they go from 16th to Indian River Boulevard on
the two streets they've considered, Orange Tree and Needle Palm, for one or
the other.
Mr. Henry stated that will create more of a speeding problem. Councilman
Inman noted that he lives on a paved street also and they have speeding.
Mr. Henry said they had two near fatalities on Mango Tree.
Councilman Rotundo stated that it will take about ten years to do all the
streets in the City, if they continue as they're goin& and to pave them all
it would take a bond issue.
Mr. Copeland asked the amount received for the gas tax and City Clerk Kinsey
replied that it's about $55,000.
Councilman Asting said they don't want to go below the $316,000. so they
could put Kumquat and Sabal and Needle Palm and Orange Tree in a hat and draw.
Mr. Fred Kelly, 2401 Kumquat, said their dust is so bad they can't open the
windows. He noted that the sewer pipe was broken off by a Greyhound bus at
the corner of 24th and the pipe has needed cleaning out for the last three
years because of the water situation there. He said they have speeding there
also which he estimates at 70 to 75 miles per hour and the large trucks use it.
Mayor Baugh suggested they put the names of the streets in a hat. Councilman
Asting said he suggested the two streets because they're now partially paved.
He suggested they consider new construction for Sabal and Kumquat and Orange
Tree and Needle Palm from the Boulevard to 16th.
-4- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985
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Mr. A. Angell, Fern Palm Drive, asked why they're considering new con-
struction when they don't maintain it. Councilman Asting replied they are and had
agreed it would be resurfaced. Mayor Baugh said they're trying to do both.
Mrs. Carmella Tripodi, 1909 Fern Palm, asked why they don't finish all the
same with one block. She said it was supposed to be resurfaced ten years
ago.
Mr. Angell said they have high speeding also and a stop sign doesn't mean
anything.
Mr. Ben Vazquez asked if the people who are getting their streets repaved are
going to be assessed the same as those under the new construction program.
City Clerk Kinsey replied no, not for resurfacing as it can't be done under
assessment. Mr. Vazquez again asked if they are going to be assessed for
repaving and City Clerk Kinsey replied no, by State Statutes they cannot be
assessed, just for new construction for the first time. Mayor Baugh reviewed
the streets they~e discussing for possible new construction.
Mr. Woodard proposed to Council to consider some impact fees for new construction
of streets as a means of increasing the City funds and increase taxes as a whole
as the people who want the services will have to pay for them. Mr.Vazquez said
he doesn't want his street paved. There was a discussion between Mr. Vazquez and
Mr. Woodard and Mayor Baugh cautioned Mr. Vazquez that he would have to leave the
meeting if he continued.
Councilman Asting suggested they consider for this year Sabal or Kumquat and
Needle and Orange for new construction. Mr. Copeland pointed out that there are
two long streets and two short ones, and suggested they go with one of each.
Councilman Prater noted that the percentages from the polls were 67% on Kumquat
and 53% on Sabal.
Mrs. Rickelman pointed out that they'll have three streets all in a row that will
be paved with Pine, Royal and Travelers, and she suggested they do a street not
close to a paved street, perhaps one with heavy building.
Mayor Baugh asked what is the longest strip of unpaved streets and Mr. Copeland
replied it's Travelers Palm to Victory Palm.
Mr. Henry stated that about 50% of the traffic goes across 15th and up Mango
Tree and that 75% of the people aren't observing the signs. He suggested they
eliminate the stop signs or turn them around to make it a through street and
pave it. Mayor Baugh agreed that he thought that a long time ago.
Councilman Prater suggested they do Needle Palm from 16th over as they had a
petition that all but two signed. Mr. Glaser pointed out that the two people
were not at home when they circulated the petition. Mayor Baugh noted that
traffic is going to increase allover based on the building permits and he's
aware of the problem on Needle Palm. Mr. Glaser said they have the perspective
all wrong in this country but there's a problem south of Indian River Boulevard
and there will be a lot of traffic and the only way to prevent it is to break
up the long straight pattern. Mayor Baugh suggested an alternative regarding
traffic south of the Boulevard is to pave 26th east and west and make stop
signs north and south to cover it, as it slowed the traffic before.
Councilman Inman said he'd like to see Fern Palm get consideration since some
is paved and some is not. Mayor Baugh pointed out that Fern Palm doesn't have
the traffic like some of the other streets. Councilman Asting noted they don't
have too far to go to get to paved roads.
-5- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985
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Mayor Baugh stated that he'd like to look at the heaviest travelled streets
and north of the Boulevard is Royal and Sabal and 16th up to India Palm but
most turn on Needle.
Councilman Rotundo suggested they do a house count on the streets. Mayor Baugh
asked Mr. Copeland to furnish them with that count and Mrs. Rickelman said
they can take it from meter reading sheets. Councilman Asting asked how long
this will take and Mrs. Rickelman replied it would be about one day to include
those under construction and it would be a house count on unpaved roads, north
and south on separate counts.
Councilman Asting said he suggested Kumquat and Sabal because they're already
partially paved and possibly get Orange Tree or Needle Palm. Mayor Baugh
agreed that Orange Tree or Needle Palm is a must. Mrs. Rickelman pointed
out that Kumquat has the lake where the City would have to absorb two-thirds
of the cost.
Councilman Rotundo expressed his concern with this time next year with the
budget balance. Councilman Asting said they'll be recovering this money
and are exceeding the estimates in revenues now.
Councilman Rotundo asked if there's anything pending from the County on the
bridge and road tax and City Clerk Kinsey said it's a case history that is
pending litigation now, and they're asking other cities to participate.
Mayor Baugh said they could increase the taxes next year and Councilman
Asting agreed they should have been held this year rather than cutting it back,
and noted that it was only about a $4.00 saving for the taxpayer.
Councilman Prater noted that other projects will need help such as the water
plant and Mayor Baugh stated that they have other funds for that. Mayor Baugh
again reviewed the streets that were being considered, and stated that the
house count will be ready for Monday night's agenda.
Councilman Rotundo asked about extra costs for the paving since there was an
additional cost the last time. Mayor Baugh stated that the street wasn't
measured right. Councilman Asting said they didn't notify the engineer when
they wanted to extend to include Travelers Palm. City Clerk Kinsey pointed out
that there are no engineering costs in the figures quoted and the last project
was very high. Councilman Asting stated they shouldn't have that requirement
since there's only one street to be paved. City Clerk Kinsey added that the
City now has a part-time in-house City Engineer also.
Councilman Asting moved to go back into the Special Meeting. Councilman Prater
seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Councilman Asting moved that the items on Mr. Copeland's list, 1 through 20,
go out for bids for resurfacing those streets. Councilman Rotundo seconded
the motion. Councilman Inman amended the motion to be priority #1 as sub-
mitted by Mr. Copeland. Councilman Asting said he would include that in his
motion and Councilman Rotundo accepted it as the second to the motion. Motion
CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh said they're now considering new construction of 30th from Willow
Oak to Silver Palm and 22nd from Willow Oak to Silver Palm. Councilman Inman
so moved. Councilman Asting seconded the motion. Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh asked for a motion that he be allowed to get in touch with the
people who said they'd donate their equipment and manpower to do Flagler
Avenue from Park Avenue north to the railroad tracks providing we provide the
material. Councilman Asting so moved. Councilman Prater seconded the motion.
Motion CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Baugh noted that the selection of streets will be on Monday night's agenda.
There was a discussion about the estimate of needed material for Flagler, and
Mayor Baugh stated that he'll have Mr. Copeland meet with him and Mr. Towers.
Councilman Asting moved to adjourn. Councilman Inman seconded the motion.
Meeting was adjourned at 4:45 P.M.
-6- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985
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Mintues submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
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MAYOR It
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COUNCILMAN ~ONE THR~
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COUNCILMAN
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ATTEST:
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CITY CLERK 7
Approved this ~day of
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-7- Council Special Meeting & Workshop Minutes
January 28, 1985