09-18-1986 - Workshop
.~
\,.
CJ
o
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
WORKSHOP
SEPTEMBER 18, 1986
MINUTES
Vice Mayor Neil Asting called the Workshop to order at 3:00 P.M. in
the Community Center. He stated the purpose for the Workshop was to
discuss institution of the self-insurance program.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Earl Baugh
Councilman Louis Rotundo
Councilman Russell Prater
Councilman Neil Asting
Excused
Present
Present
Present
Councilman James Inman
City Attorney Jose'Alvarez
City Clerk Connie Martinez
Chief Lawrence Schumaker
Deputy City Clerk
Susan Wadsworth
Present
Arrived Later
Excused
Present
Present
Also present was Mr. Gary Schad, the City's insurance carrier from Town & Country
Insurance Agency.
Vice Mayor Asting excused Chief Schumaker at this time. Vice Mayor Asting
requested a motion to recess the workshop until the City Attorney arrives.
Councilman Rotundo so moved. Councilman Inman seconded the motion. Motion
CARRIED 4-0.
City Attorney Alvarez arrived at 3:12 P.M. Vice-Mayor Asting called the Workshop
back to order at 3:15 P.M. and he turned it over to City Attorney Alvarez to
advise Council of the self-insurance program.
City Attorney Alvarez stated there's a draft of the ordinance that will put
the program into effect and also attached are forms for handling of claims and
the procedures. He pointed out that keeping down accidents is the primary
objective. He said Council will receive evaluation reports, either quarterly,
every six months, or yearly, which will show the number of accidents, the status
of the claims, what has been paid, and amount of reserves which is put aside
for what they think it will cost. He reviewed the various forms in the packet
and their possible uses for our City. He pointed out the importance of having
an immediate report of an accident and the investigation to determine damages
and liability. He noted the next step would be a formal evaluation by the
insurance committee to determine if it's a valid claim that should be settled
early or if it should be denied and then litigate it if challenged. He noted
it's an important decision that will set the trend and determine if there's
litigation or settlement. He stated that if they decide to settle on a claim
and the amount is over $1,000, then it comes to Council with factual memos that
explain how the accident happened, the recommendation, and the amount of
payment established. He pointed out the memo has to be carefully done regarding
liability, and they can't alert the individuals that perhaps they could get an
idea they could get more money. He stated the attitude of getting tough on
all claims doesn't payoff in the end because if you're liable and someone
gets hurt and there's a litigation claim with an attorney involved, the City
will pay more. He pointed out they should identify it real early to get rid
of it before it goes to something bigger. He added that they want to get
a reputation of fairness, but they won't pay just for the sake of paying.
City Attorney Alvarez noted the insurance carrier will pay $5,000 for anyone
only because to litigate will cost up to $10,000 so it's financially feasible.
He said they have nuisance money but the City can't afford to do that.
He pointed out that after they take a few through the process, the reputation
will get around that Edgewater won't pay unless they really deserve it.
He noted that sometimes they're only partially at fault and they pay too
early so money could be saved at times by waiting and taking the lawsuit.
He stressed that the first year is critical with this program and the
employees have to be very conscious of what we're doing.
,
o
o
Self-insurance program review (Continued) -
City Attorney Alvarez stated that the City Administrator will have to
get on with the program in all departments, with visitations and getting
analyses of all departments to see where the problems are. He pointed
out that accidents such as the one on July 4th, where the public is
involved, are the worst. Mr. Schad pointed out exposure is why it's impossible
to get insurance for that type of event.
City Attorney Alvarez continued with his review of the forms and reports of
the type the Council will receive. He noted they'll have the total number
of accidents per month and a breakdown by department which is how they'll
be able to identify where the problem departments are. He noted there
will be claims opened, research done, and then closed without payment.
He reviewed the various claims paid on the forms provided. He then
reviewed how and why the reserve is set up, noting that the money is in the
bank earning interest.
Councilman Rotundo asked if they replenish the amount spent at the end of the
year and City Attorney Alvarez replied yes, because you have to assume a
constant there. Mr. Schad suggested they try to build up the fund until it
reaches $1,000,000. and he pointed out some cities take the annual premium
from an. insurance company and put it in the fund each year thereafter.
Councilman Rotundo asked if they should put $300,000 aside each year and Mr.
Schad replied it could be whatever the premium would be. City Attorney
Alvarez noted that each year the premiums will increase. Councilman Prater
pointed out they'll be earning interest all this time. Mr. Schad agreed and
noted that's where insurance companies make their money. Mr. Schad added
that we've had no major claims but they have to be prepared and have the
reserve there, plus the first year they don't have a large amount in there
so it's very critical. Mr. Schad pointed out the City of Ormond Beach
started six years ago with a fund for workers' compensation and they've
saved enough money to build their new City Hall by not paying premiums,
and they're not putting anything into the fund because they feel they have
a comfortable cushion. City Attorney Alvarez noted it's not like an impact
fee as a restricted fund and in an emergency they can borrow from that fund.
He added that it's a contingency fund with premiums that would have otherwise
gone to the insurance company. He noted that the School Board is self-insured.
He said they have to consider if a club or organization is asked to provide
an insurance policy and they balk. Mr. Schad noted that Daytona Beach's risk
manager has a rule that if they're making money on what they're doing, then
they have to supply them with a certificate of insurance. He added that they
have to be tough and there have to be a lot of no's to protect the City.
Councilman Prater noted that a lot of social clubs rent this out and the
City is accepting the responsibility. City Attorney Alvarez noted that the
insurance committee manages the fund and the requests go to that committee
and they can say no. He added that it's not a legislative question, but an
administrative procedure.
Councilman Rotundo asked if they'll have to school the Police Department
on the way to protect us for accidents. City Attorney Alvarez replied
those on duty will have to be trained in the reporting process. He reviewed
that each department should have a key individual with an adjuster in City
Hall, an investigator who will respond to every accident with photographs,
statements from witnesses, etc. He noted that the ivnestigator will want
witnesses favorable to our situation who can be used in defense of the City.
He added that it has to be done immediately because you can't find evidence
later, and the person preparing the report has to be certain that he actually
saw the accident as it was stated. He pointed out that the City isn't liable
if vandalism is involved and they don't know about it, but they need routine
inspections of City property.
-2- Council Workshop Minutes
September 18, 1986
. ,
,
o
o
Self-insurance program review (Continued) -
Councilman Inman stated they need to continue with the safety program
and get the information to all employees that if they see a discrepancy
or if something needs to be repaired there should be a form to turn it
over to the designated safety employee in that department. He suggested
employees who drive vehicles could have a defensive driving course. He
noted that the course is expensive and you have to be certified to teach it.
City Attorney Alvarez agreed we should get it. Councilman Inman noted that
it came with workbooks and a movie.
Vice~Mayor Asting stated this has to be passed on to department heads and
they have to give a course of instruction to their employees. Councilman
Prater suggested the department heads meet once a month the first year.
Councilman Rotundo noted they meet every two weeks now.
Mr. Schad stated they need a safety committee and each department head
should be on it and then everything has to be brought up on a continual
basis. Vice Mayor Asting stated the safety committee should be set up and
the department heads appointed. Mr. Schad suggested they consider awards
or other incentives for safety.
Vice Mayor Asting stated they need, someone to administer over all of it,
such as City Clerk Martinez, and then a safety committee made up of depart-
ment heads and they would be responsible for filtering information down to
the employees, especially the supervisors. Councilman Inman stated that
quarterly reports are also important for the safety committee to review
where the accidents are, and to determine how to prevent them happening again.
City Attorney Alvarez pointed out they have a self-insurance administrator,
a self-insurance committee, and a safety committee. He said under self-
insurance is claims and litigation and under the safety committee is
prevention. He added that the self-insurance administrator would be on the
self-insurance committee and it could be the City Clerk, the City Attorney,
and the insurance agent.
Vice Mayor Asting asked who would be responsible for looking at a damaged
vehicle and City Attorney Alvarez replied the claims. Councilman Inman
stressed that it's vital the claims committee submit the report to the
safety committee and City Attorney Alvarez agreed.
Vice Mayor Asting noted it's self-insurance for personal injury and liability
and asked if the insurance company comes in for property damage. Mr. Schad
said they can self-insure everything but the general consensus is they self-
insure buildings and automobile liabiltity. Vice~Mayor Asting asked if someone
gets hurt in the Community Center if that comes under self-insurance and Mr.
Schad replied yes. City Attorney Alvarez explained there's property damage
that we insure and property damage that we cause to someone else. There was
further discussion about what category the possible accidents would fall under.
Vice Mayor Asting asked if the out of court cases would be covered by the
insurance carrier and Mr. Schad replied yes, and he recommended a high
deductible such as $1,000 or $5,000 and handle it here. City Attorney
Alvarez noted that if they have a $10,000 deductible, the self-insurance
fund would cover it and the major losses would go to the insurance carrier.
There was a discussion about vehicles involved in an accident when no
fault is involved.
Councilman Rotundo asked about when firemen chop holes in a house when fighting
a fire and the owner sues the City. Mr. Schad replied that's the property
damage liability under the self-insurance fund. City Attorney Alvarez explained
they'll pay if they're liable, and this happens a lot. He then expressed his
concern with volunteer fire fighters speeding off in their own cars to a
fire. Mr. Schad pointed out that emergency vehicles are not supposed to go
over 10 miles per hour over the posted speed limit. City Attorney Alvarez
clarified that it's not an emergency vehicle, but a private car. Councilman
Prater asked if they're insured in their private car regardless of their
private insurance. City Attorney Alvarez said they need to look at it because
they may want to buy insurance for them and also they need to look at their
procedures for their responses. Mr. Schad stated that probably the personal
automobile policy won't cover responding as a volunteer. City Attorney
Alvarez said they'll be paying high premiums if it covers emergency responses.
Mr. Schad said he'll check this, but they have to be well trained. There
was further discussion about the fire fighters' procedures for response now.
City Attorney Alvarez again stated they need a procedure for the responses.
-3- Council Workshop Minutes
September 18, 1986
. .
.
o
o
....
Self-insurance program review (Continued) -
Councilman Rotundo agreed they need to get the response procedure straightened
out and Vice Mayor Asting agreed they need to get it established.
Councilman Rotundo asked if the money comes out of self-insured if a Police
car is wrecked and has to be replaced and City Attorney Alvarez replied yes,
as the property damage aspect.
City Attorney Alvarez noted it's tough to tell volunteers to follow a certain
procedure. Mr. Schad suggested they tell them to procure their own insurance.
City Attorney Alvarez reviewed the wanton, wilful and reckless conduct section
in the Statutes, noting that if individuals act in this manner, they are not
entitled to defense, and if they're hit with punitive damages, the City cannot
pay it. He added that it's taxpayers' money and there's a public trust to
administer, so to pay to defend this conduct is wrong.
City Attorney Alvarez then reviewed the forms further, clarifying what the
different amounts were.
Vice Mayor Asting asked if our workers' compensation is high and Mr. Schad
explained he's not the agent for that and they're assuming a risk the insurance
company had before. Mr. Schad reviewed how the City of Ormond Beach handles
their workers compensation claims with their own City doctor and hospital,
thus giving them tight control. He added that before an employee is hired,
there's a record from the State for $4.00 for former claims.
Mr. Schad then reviewed the pending claims with the City, noting the amount of
premium paid for the policy, and then the claims against it. Mr. Schad
also passed out the sheets on the vehicles, with a discussion following
about some of the items listed. Mr. Schad noted the small paid out amounts
compared to the premiums for most of the years.
Councilman Rotundo suggested they have a quarterly Council meeting to get the
information and City Attorney Alvarez suggested it be monthly. City Attorney
Alvarez noted there will be a lot of hours needed to set up the program and
it will cost about $50,000 to set it up. Mr. Schad agreed it usually takes
$35,000 to $50,000 and some people don't do it because of the cost to
administer it, especially in the first year. Councilman Rotundo asked if the
insurance agent can be paid a retainer to set this up and City Attorney Alvarez
replied that the proposed ordinance states the agent of record and he hopes
Gary Schad will be it, and City Clerk Martinez and himself. He added that
they discussed the compensation and hours are almost impossible to determine.
He noted that figures have to be put together and then go to the departments
for training and safety and procedures to be set up. Mr. Schad pointed out
they need someone to go to the classes to find out what's occurring on a
continual basis. City Attorney Alvarez continued that they need to meet with
the departments and set up procedures for the Fire Department and under what
conditions they cover employees and when not to cover them plus a policy for
use of City vehicles. There was a discussion about the fire fighters who don't
go along with procedure. Mr. Schad referred to when one person has more than
two violations in a three-year period, he has to be placed in a non-driving
situation. Councilman Rotundo asked how they'd handle it if it's their own
vehicle and Mr. Schad replied they can be told you don't want them to drive
because the City can't assume responsibility.
City Attorney Alvarez noted that the insurance company will pay sometimes
when liability and workers' compensation is the same. Mr. Schad pointed out
you can get them to the doctor right away and there's a report due within 7
days and it's all outlined for procedures. He added the workers' compensation
fund is the easiest to anticipate and control. He suggested it be considered
for self-insurance also.
Councilman Rotundo asked the deadline and Mr. Schad replied October 1st.
City Attorney Alvarez explained that once the program gets under way, there
will be a lot of meetings and preparation but they have to adopt an ordinance.
He noted that he'll see the Mayor at the Florida League of Cities meeting
and get his thoughts. He noted they have to pass the ordinance, set the
compensation of the self-insurance committee, which is administration of the
claims and claims settlements, and the City Administrator will be in charge
of the safety committee. He said they can put this in the hands of a consultant
and pay $50,000, but because of the size of the City and loss experience, he feels
they can handle it. Councilman Inman asked if they still have a safety committee
and Councilman Rotundo replied it's more active than before and department heads
take turns being chairman.
~ice Mayor Asting suggested they adjourn. Councilman Rotundo so moved. Councilman
Inman seconded the motion. Workshop was adjourned at 5:20 P.M.
Minutes submitted by:
Lura Sue Koser
-4-
Council Workshop Minutes
September 18,.. 1986